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Housing - New Build: Flat roofs or Pitched roofs - Which is more sustainable? 1 to 30 of 31
steveleigh Mar 5th 2008 edited
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tony Mar 5th 2008

Planners will not like roof top balconies in suburban areas parapet walls are nightmares as are flat roofs both will give problems long term. Pitched roofs are for good reason the norm in the UK. M aintenance wise flat roofs (not you ones admittedly) cost very much more in the long run than pitched due to repair costs.

skywalker Mar 5th 2008

Steve Unless you are a man-carrot I think you mean vitamin D and the slugs WILL get there I'm afraid (so your days are numbered you mutant veg/human mwa ha ha ha ha !!). S.

TheDoctor Mar 5th 2008

a WELL DESIGNED flat roof will be no more problematic than a pitched roof. UK included The bad press about flat roofs is due to bad design and material choice

does sunshine not top you up with Vitamin D, rather than A? A is from carrots!

steveleigh Mar 5th 2008 edited

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tony Mar 5th 2008

Doc, problem is that the vast majority of flat roofs are sub standard design and construction. They are also inherently not fail safe either.

Terry Mar 22nd 2008 edited

Steve Would have to disagree with your statement regarding pitched rooves using more materials. While the actual roof structure might use less, the supporting structure for flat rooves, especially those with gardens/lawns/flowers etc would surely require a lot more material, thereby more than cancelling any reduction in roof materials??? We have a bit of a hybrid roof in that the front is as original pitched welsh slate and the back flat, stepped down from the ridge. The flat section is constructed with timber I-beams spanning about 5,5m. Due to the loadings specified they are 400mm deep great for lots of insulation, but if we did not have the imported engineered I-beams, it would have been interesting to know what sizeand quantity full section timber we would have required. A pitched roof on the other hand can be simply constructed from easily available local small section timber - as has been done for a long long time. I should add that the loadings for our roof are relatively small in that they only allow for 100mm of soil for the grass (more meadow, than law) - hardly a lot if you want to maintain a nice lawn let alone flowers or indeed a carrot patch Your parapet arrangement also intruduces a lot of complication and detailing requirements with regard to getting rid of water as opposed to it just running off the edge into a gutter. In conclusion I think that a pitch roof sticks to the KISS principle, although I concede that there are benefits to flat rooves. As for our odd arrangement, it is the result of planning restrictions, but I do like the shaggy meadow look and will do even more when we finally get to dig the grass out of the adjacent field and put it on.

CWatters Mar 22nd 2008

I guess if I were being picky... a dome roof would have the lowest surface area to volume ratio. Even less materials than a flat roof and lower losses?

Paul in Montreal Mar 23rd 2008

Posted By: CWatters I guess if I were being picky... a dome roof would have the lowest surface area to volume ratio. Even less materials than a flat roof and lower losses?

A flat roof has the lowest surface area since it's two dimensional. A sphere has the lower surface area of any 3-D shape - but that's a whole different discussion. One thing that surprised me on moving to M ontreal is that the majority of houses have a flat roof - something that's counterintuitive given the snowy climate here - indeed, we've received 362cm of snow so far this season, making it the second snowiest on record. I always thought that peaked roof was better in a snowy climate but this is not necessarily the case. M any people have roof-top gardens, patios etc. here which makes an otherwise unusable space usable. M aking a flat roof a green (i.e. vegetation covered) area has many benefits, especially in urban areas as it tends to reduce the heat-island effect. Solar panels can still be fitted and are more accessible on a flat roof compared to a sloping roof - making maintenance easier. As for use of materials, I would think a flat roof constructed with engineered trusses would use no more material than a pitched roof - even though the flat roof would be designed for a greater static load, the reduced area would compensate for a reduction in truss material overall.

Posted By: tony They are also inherently not fail safe either

What is fail-safe about a pitched roof? That said, though, there have been a few roof collapses here this winter due to the huge amount of snow - the worse of which were with steel commercial structures though. Paul in M ontreal.

tony Mar 23rd 2008

When a flat roof starts to fail the structure is taken out and the ceilings too -- this is inevitable as no repairs flat roofs until they have to and sometimes not then. When a pitched roof starts to fail it doesn't leak, one or two missing slates or tiles are rarely a problem and even with a few missing the water runs down the protective sarking causing few if any problems. Valley gutters, parapet walls and box gutters more often cause troubles.

James Norton Mar 24th 2008 edited

Posted By: steveleigh Flat roofs or Pitched roofs - Which is more sustainable?

Either. It depends on the design. . J

ludite Apr 22nd 2008

laughed till I cried about the carrot joke, but hubby didn't get it. Flat roofs - that's a house with the roof taken off isn't it?. . . . . only then you have to stop the water getting in. . . . and strengthen it. . . . why not have a roof in the shape of a W? oh yes, thats right, because if you do, the valleys fill with dead leaves and pigeons and you have to climb up ladders and clean them out and the water gets under the flashing and runs down the walls and soaks your stair carpet. . . . . Pitched roofs are tried and tested and they do seem to stand up to our climate. But why not make the pitch steeper - maybe have triangular shaped houses with a ridge or a point on the top - like mini mountains or pyramids? Isn't the triangle stronger than a square anyway?

StuartB Apr 23rd 2008

Why are roofs pitched anyway? Why not sloped? This would use less material and still do the same job.

Albert Apr 23rd 2008

Paul Wrote: "One thing that surprised me on moving to M ontreal is that the majority of houses have a flat roof" Out of interest, Paul, what is the usual construction? In particular, what waterproofing layer do they use?

ludite Apr 23rd 2008

what is the difference between pitched and sloped, I thought it was the same thing?

Paul in Montreal Apr 23rd 2008

Posted By: Albert Out of interest, Paul, what is the usual construction? In particular, what waterproofing layer do they use?

A lot of new construction uses pitched roofs for cosmetic reasons. M any older buildings are what are called over here duplexes or triplexes - basically an entire apartment per floor (two for a duplex, three for a triplex etc.). M y house is 2 stories but not a duplex but it does have a flat roof. The top floor has joists for the ceiling with tongue-and-grove boards on top of these and then there's a space of a couple of feet with another set of joists above, also with tongue-and-grove boards on top of this. This top layer is called the roof deck over here. Standard practice is then to flood this with tar, apply a layer of paper, another layer of tar, then another layer of paper and so on for usually three layers. Tar is applied on top of everything and then gravel applied and the whole thing is called a tar-and-gravel roof. These have a lifetime of 10-20 years depending how dishonest the installing contractor was The flat roof is not dead flat but usually slightly sloped, sometimes in sections, with a roof drain to remove standing water. We have one roof drain that's actually connected into the soil stack, though this isn't allowed in new construction as rainwater is not permitted to enter the regular sewage system. Some people install membrane roofs instead of tar-and-gravel using an elastomeric material - I'm not sure but I think a layer of gravel is still applied on top of this. The actual purpose of the gravel is to act as a UV shield. I believe guarantees of up to 40

years can be had on membrane roofs, but, like all guarantees, they're only as good as the company that stands behind them. Our tar-and-gravel roof's guarantee expires in 2010 so we'll probably replace it next year (long story as to why I don't trust the guarantee in this case) and will probably go with a membrane roof installed by the same contractor that installed our slate mansard roof with copper flashing (which should last at least 100 years). The previous one had to be replaced because the slates were worn out after 108 years and the galvanized flashing had rusted through around the dormers and caused all sorts of damage to the front stone wall. The copper should last virtually forever (no-one uses lead flashing here at all). All that said, a well maintained tar-and-gravel roof can be kept leak-free pretty much indefinitely, but the owner does have to be pro-active in replacing/repairing it before problems set in. Paul in M ontreal.

chuckey Apr 23rd 2008

Egress to a flat roof is a nice thing to have, because then you can actually use the roof. If the roof is truly flat, the the point of access to the roof then becomes a major water trap/ safety feature (guard rails etc.). While pitched roofs do use more materials, the materials are cheap and long lasting and the average builder thinks he understands them. I personally prefer sloping flat roofs. Easy to set out, one gutter, no pooling of water and I have seen it, no grass growing on them. Of course the ultimate is a flat panel sheet roof with your PV and solar heating coils/glazing installed in the factory, screw the underneath brackets to the rafters and away you! Frank

Albert Apr 23rd 2008

Thanks, Paul. So the waterproofing is broadly similar to UK practice -- either a membrane or lots of hand-applied tar.

kenavo May 4th 2008

Why not have a sloped roof. I am in the middle of planning a new self build timber frame home in northern France and of all the many decisions that was the easiest. Quicker, easier, cheaper and insulation is simple. With a small parapet you can't see the roof covering so you can choose from a large range of commercial coverings. Well insulated, large panels, quicker and easier to install or am I missing something? Easier for solar panel etc installations. A single gutter makes water collection in to my 5000 litre tank simpler, is 400. a good price for the tank? Also I have found good hardwood windows here ready 2glazed. e.g. 1 metre sq. (4-16-4) @ 100 euros each. About 78. The land faces south and west with uninterrupted views over beautiful country, is 500metres from the beach and the other way is a bar at about 400metres. Just thought I would throw in that useless bit of info.!

StuartB May 5th 2008

Kenavo - I made that point earlier in the thread. I just can't see the point in having pitched roofs. A single slope makes much more sense in terms of costs, quicker to build and doesn't waste space. Any builders/architects like to explain why we continue with pitched roofs?

ludite May 5th 2008

A single slope sounds the best idea of all, but wasn't this a discussion about FLAT v pitched?

StuartB May 5th 2008

You are correct! I would choose flat over pitched unless I planned to use the space in a pitched roof. M y problem with flat roofs is that they hold standing water. The most sustainable would be sloped.

ludite May 5th 2008

Which means that even though you asthetically prefer flat, you recognise the problem of standing water and accept a slope would be better. It then begs the question, what to use. So many of the flat roof preparations succumb to sunlight and weather, and the pitched roof stuff like tile or slate, has to be at a certain angle to work properly. I was toying with the idea of metal, either zinc or copper sheets. Could that be laid at a shallow enough angle?

Chris Wardle May 5th 2008

What about profile steel monopitch? Cheap, easy to fix, recycle it at the end of its life which should be long. I've seen it on a few buildings lately and I don't mind the look of it.

Chris Wardle May 5th 2008

By the way, I wouldn't fancy zinc or copper... you might it vanishes while your'e on holiday...

trigger May 5th 2008

i think PAUL is winding you all up and laughing his socks off right now,inbetween getting his fix of high tech vits on a low tech roof!

ludite May 6th 2008

Keep seeing zinc sheets on grand designs roofs. . . . . are people still nicking other peoples roofs then? thought that just happened to churches.

jamesingram May 6th 2008

I've had to renew considerably more flat roofs than pitched roofs (UK) If they were made well perhaps that wouldnt be the case , but they aren't and they wont be for the forseeable future. In this imperfect world the pitched roof is closer to perfection

ludite May 9th 2008

Jamesingram. . . .I think it's down to the materials, a combination of standing water then extreme dryness, and UV light is no match for the materials used for flat roofs. When I investigated monolithic domes, their main problem was the decomposition of the waterproof membrane - and their surfaces aren't even flat, they're curved. While i agree with the pitched roof being 'closer to perfection', What is your opinion of sloped roofs?

Terry May 16th 2008

In the UK as far as I am aware, anything below 10 deg is regarded as a flat roof, anything above is pitched. If you were installing a 'flat roof', there is scope to put a fall on it to avoid the standing water issue, even if you intend to use the roof as the fall can be compensated for with paving slab supports or varing depths of growing medium in green rooves etc.

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