The question is, is taxpayer-funded healthcare and education classified as "social ownership of (part of) the means of production"?

@Omsomething, as they say, "Everyone is looking for something to die for...harder to find somethiing to live for"

are people defending socialism in here?

**ImMorningstar#1696** was cleansed from the server.

**thquew#4553** was cleansed from the server.

@Omsomething, socialism will ALWAYS be what they call 'patriarchy'; even slaves need one to be in charge

I am pro social democracy, but it could be due to me being Finnish. It kind of gets mixed with national identity.

I am Objectivist but pragmatic

Yes, smash the shit outta marxism

I call it Objective Humanism

Strong societies take care of its weakest members and tries to find uses to them.

hmm

@Omsomething, but not at the EXPENSE of allowing a path to success from those that can acheive

you don't need the state to do that though @Omsomething

ddog oh?

@Omsomething, capitalism has shown that even with inequality, the benefits to the lowest members of society outpace those in socialists system

Do you seriously suggest that nearly everyone doesn't agree that we should have roads and schools? @Omsomething

@Deleted User, u a libertarian?

And what if they can’t find a use for the weakest members?

Ddog‘ as cowboy, he has to be

@Deleted User, it isn't the state or anyone else's job to find a 'use' for anyone?

lolbertarian

Capitalism is good system for now, problem with it is that it causes a lot of people to fail at start of their life.

This is why you have strong free education for all who want it. It is peoples CHOISE to follow it through and put it to use though.

@ManAnimal nope

@Deleted User, great username

Capitalism causes people to fail at the start of life? Big claim, Cotton

big if true

@Deleted User, also libertarian... but again, pragmatic

@Grant , no it doesn't

@Grant, people start out as children

I am a Imperialist

I'm not the one who made that claim, animal

@Grant, ah ok. WHo did?

Grant, you do not consider people not being able to afford schooling, medical care as "not failing"?

@Omsomething

I'm not saying to get rid of the state, just that you don't need it to help people , and it sucks at helping people

Capitalism is good in theory but it can become corrupted like most forms of socialism, and capitalism as it exists is being corrupted. It's not monolithic. Capitalism is definitely better in terms of freedoms and your money goes further.

@Deleted User, the state is like a calculator; garbage in garbage out

If you're earning minimum wage in the united states, you can afford schooling and medical care

A lot of people could be succesfull if given basic schooling and opportunities in life.