Finishing A 2.5 Year Blades in The Dark Campaign AMA - RPG
Finishing A 2.5 Year Blades in The Dark Campaign AMA - RPG
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This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or
comment. this post was submitted on 19 Jan 2020
241 points (93% upvoted)
Finishing a 2.5 year Blades in the Dark
AMA
shortlink: https://redd.it/eqxtfk
241 campaign AMA (self.rpg)
submitted 1 year ago by [deleted]
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leads the crew against any occult threats they face. Quarantined NSFW 66 points | 7 comments
Chance: Played by Thom, Chance is a Cutter with a Advice [B/S] I went on an awkward date with
history of doing other people’s dirty work. He’s a my sister
criminal, no doubt, but one who looks to better the Quarantined NSFW 85 points | 39 comments
standings of his fellow Skovlanders, as well as lining Current Events How the World Sees America
his own pockets. Amid Its Chaotic Withdrawal from Afghanistan
Fade: Played by Corey, Fade the Lurk was a 102 points | 103 comments
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all 69 comments
sorted by: best
[–] GnozL 35 points 1 year ago
How the heck did you manage to go 2.5 years with only 1 crew member retiring?
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Not op but:
I think that forward progress was not always made, and there may have been sessions where the group
was set back. There was also some breaks in between the seasons.
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How did that happen? My impression of the game is since there's no difficulty mechanic AND
player's pick the skill, failing at anything should be pretty rare. Am I misunderstanding something (I
must be).
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Like Powered by the Apocalypse games, the difficulty is very fluid. It’s really about finding a
good balance, and that just takes experience with the system. Players may pick the skill, but if it
isn’t a good fit, the DM still gets to set the position and effect. They may use a skill they’re good
at, but if it doesn’t fit the problem, it’s not going to work very well. Fails were plentiful for sure!
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I will believe you, but I still don't get it. Position and effect is just what happens IF you fail.
You still have to fail, and characters can get pretty quickly good as skills AND they pick the
skill.
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Effect is what happens when they succeed. Position is what happens when they fail. If
an enemy leader is yelling at the crew, a response to calm him down could be consort,
but this isn’t an ally and he’s past negotiations, so it might be standard position with little
or no effect. Using command might offer a better outcome at more risk leading to a
desperate position with standard effect. Does that make sense?
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Yes that makes sense. So in your example they'll still probably succeed but it won't
matter.
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I think the book even gives an example of someone trying to Wreck a stone
watchtower with their bare hands... Position aside the Effect is Zero/Nothing.
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The players can pick the skill BUT they also have to describe how what they do fits the skill. This
usually allows the GM to set lower effect and/or worse position for inappropriate actions based
on the description.
Let's say a cutter wants to inadvertently inconspicuously take out an enemy in the middle of a
noble party by breaking a chair over his head using DESTROY, the GM is allowed to make the
call that it will be a Desperate action with zero effect because there's no way nobody will notice
and his goal is basically impossible.
It's kind of a more friendly way of allowing the GM to say no, because there will be a fictional
precedent to justify the call.
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[–] ONMCom 3 points 1 year ago
Did you mean inconspicuously, rather than inadvertently? I can't really understand the
example.
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No worries, thanks!
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I've been running a BitD game for close to a year now, and players fail plenty of rolls. It only
takes them to get 1-3 for all the dice in their pool. While that might seem difficult once players
start rolling 3-4 dice polls, it still happens. Part of what makes the system interesting is that it is
*always* possible for players to utterly fail an action. Corollary to that, the way players can
always get help/push themselves/accept a devil's bargain means that the players can always
get a good shot at doing some action. It helps the game feel like it's about specialists doing
dangerous things quite nicely imo.
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It got close a lot of times, but they did a good job stepping in for each other when things got tough, and
the crew took a lot of hits in the form of beloved NPCs being hurt and their turf getting pushed back.
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Our Monday pathfinder game has been going 7 years with no drop outs. It can happen.
Maybe i should make one of these posts when we're finally done. I'll probably give the GM first dibs
though.
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I think they mean character "death", not players leaving the game. In BitD, when a character gains
too much trauma, then they retire.
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Or you get enough money to "win" and then retire from the thieving game.
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I have run the game for many sessions and there are some issues that I haven't been able to solve. I love
the game, though. Maybe you can help with this:
1 What was your experience with playing outside the default structure of game phases? Did you have purely
free play sessions or successive downtime phases?
2 Did the crew get into War with another Faction? If so, how did it go and how did you managed it
mechanically?
3 Did you find any issues with the players spending too much time not only planning for scores but
strategizing long term plans for the crew? How did you solve it? (This is a big problem in my table and,
despite my players being aware of the game's stances on planning, they end up wasting too much time with
this).
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4 Were the main criminal activities of the crew an important part of the campaign? In my case, the players
are hawkers and they spend more time on solving problems, fighting factions, acquiring turf, rather than
doing the hawkers thing of "sale-supply-show of force-socialize". Our crew seems to be growing just out of
background activities that aren't the focus. Maybe for Bravo's it's easier. How often did you throw hooks of
opportunities for Bravo's rather than let them take initiative on what interested the players? I fall on the
second one most of the time which maybe part of the problem, but they really have bigger problems.
5 How much detail vs abstraction did you put into the map?
6 How much pressure did you put on characters through factions and NPCs clocks and downtime activities?
I feel I might be on the soft side...
7 What were the biggest obstacles you found, the things that you wish you had known/were ready
for/prepared better/done differently or important stuff that you don't find usually mentioned when this game is
discussed?
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Can you explain what you were doing during Freeplay? I always found it kinda superfluous, like RP
was woven into Scores and Downtime. We never played with set finish times on Downtime though,
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like it only ever really ended when the Score started. So Freeplay and Downtime get mixed together,
I guess, but then in my view Freeplay is just 'remember to RP' and not really justified as a 'phase'.
So you emphasing Freeplay that much is really interesting to me. What were you doing with it?
Cool thread btw. Your experience otherwise sounds extremely similar to mine.
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I’m lucky to have players that never had a shortage of things they wanted to do. They’d interact
in the hideout, talking to each other and their resident psychonaut Veldren. One character would
often visit friends in the city to check in on them, one was a tattoo artist in the docks and the
other a whisper in charhollow. A lot of character building was done in free play with my group.
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Yeah, I’ve found that being liberal about freeplay is a good move. At first I was pushing for
everything to be either in the downtime loop or in a heist, but that was a mistake. I also wound up
running downtime at the beginning of each session and that was a big win because the events of
downtime often set up the rest of the session.
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How do you feel Blades in the Dark as a system helped you push towards a conclusive finale to the game?
From what I have played, it seems to have the DND-like problem of 'just keep going till were done' without
pacing mechanics. Do you find that to be the case?
Also favorite single moment from the campaign?
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It definitely took some work on my end each season. I tried to build a different threat and end each
season with a finale. A lot of that was listening to the players. As they went up against different crews I
looked for the ones that really got them going. Then it was just a matter of fleshing out the enemy crews
with NPCs and motivations and put them into clocks. Each season had a sort of “showdown” with the
season’s big bads.
There’re so many moments I loved, but I think one of my favorites was when the crew had a sort of small
side-mission ridding a district of a group of rich-kid vigilantes calling themselves The Doskvol Dandies.
Nothing too epic but such a fun session as the Dandies realized how out of their element they were
going up against a real gang like The Soot Rats.
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Downtime is like letting characters go to buy and sell items, cure themselves, etc.
Free play is like everything else you do in D&D.
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I'll just chime in with how I overcame the first one: I've normally done mostly improvisation as a GM for
most things. I've always approached as a skill to develop and not some trait you either have or lack.
Doing it more and more, reflecting on what works and doesn't, and reapplying that will make you better
at improvisation. There's not much to it beyond that in my opinion (although certain things like
shamelessly stealing ideas from any and everything can help out). The more you flex that creative
muscle, the more comfortable you'll eventually feel with it, and Blades gives you abundant opportunities
to do so.
Besides the kinda unhelpful advice above, you can also "outsource" consequences and effects to
players when you don't have something, which I've found pretty effective for my group (might not work so
great with others depending on the group dynamics).
Failing all that, it's always possible to use one of the game's more abstract systems immediately
(heat/stress/status/harm) and figuring out the justification after that. For example, "you got a 4, so you
succeed but will take an extra heat" and then figuring out a way to plug it all back in during the
payout/entanglements phase of downtime. Definitely not ideal for what the system is aiming for, but I
think it's totally acceptable if it keeps the pace moving forward.
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Why do your handwritten notes look so much better than mine? Where are all the crazy crossouts and
stuff?
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1- You’d be surprised what you can come up with on the fly! I credit Dungeon World for teaching me how
to run fiction-first RPGs. I recommend reading the DM’s Tips section of that book to any DM looking to
run more narrative games. One thing they include is a list of “moves” the DM can make when the rolls
require consequences. They’re available in the SRD, but I’ll copy them here:
Use a monster, danger, or location move
Reveal an unwelcome truth
Show signs of an approaching threat
Deal damage
Use up their resources
Turn their move back on them
Separate them
Give an opportunity that fits a class’ abilities
Show a downside to their class, race, or equipment
Offer an opportunity with or without cost
Put someone in a spot
Tell them the requirements or consequences and ask
Keeping those in mind, and remembering that dealing damage is the least interesting outcome, I was
able to move pretty quickly on the fly.
2- I generally started free play with asking everyone pointed questions to set the scene. Their hideout
was in a couple abandoned train cars. I’d ask what they were doing, how they felt about things going on,
or have one of the NPCs in the hideout start up a conversation or something. I really enjoyed playing
through the mundane lives of the crew between scores, and it helped to flesh out the relationships of the
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crew members. Also during this time the players would take over really well, sometimes running errands
or visiting another NPC. This part of the game should be pretty player-driven with the GM throwing in
elements to get the conversations going and help keep the story moving.
3- I had a ton to do! Always thinking of interesting locations, NPCs, and designing obstacles in the
moment. How you react to your PCs and the rolls is how you make the game your own, that’s where
NPCs and the world can come alive. I don’t know if that makes sense, but trust me, you’ll feel right in the
action with the crew, and there is so much room for cool ideas in how you modify and create the world
around them. They’re raiding a Leviathan Ship?! Well now I get to design a crew and a ship, deciding
what those look like in this world, and giving everything theme and character. What weapons did they
use? What sort of cool shit can our Leech salvage? How do they store Leviathan blood? What happens
when Chance blows up the Leviathan blood tanks? How does all that electroplasm effect our Whisper?
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I hadn't thought of hard or soft moves. I've got a ton of PBtA books so I think I'll just compile a quick
reference of them.
I think you can ask people in advance what kind of heists their planning to give you a space to
prepare.
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We played for 8-10 sessions right after the release, and I'd be curious to hear your responses to some of the
big problems we had:
1. I felt like I kept having to stop the players to explain things about the setting - they'd try to do
something cool, but it'd involve some relatively deep part of the setting, like how ghosts work, and I
had to stop and dump exposition (rarely fun) and explain why they couldn't do that (never fun). I tried
to alter the setting on the fly where I could, but since it's fairly integrated, and mechanics touch on a lot
of it, there were a lot of places where there was just no way I could safely alter it - so I had to rebuff
the players and dump exposition.
It didn't feel like this got tremendously better over 8-10 sessions - as things went on, we wanted to go
to other districts for scores, explore things more, and I kept having to dump exposition. So I'm
wondering if it did get better in the longer run. If so, can you estimate how long it took before everyone
was familiar enough with the setting that this stopped happening for the most part?
2. The stress and coin and heat and especially injury economies lead to constant death spirals. Every
downtime was spent first and foremost trying to get healed, and then whatever was left went to stress,
but it was never enough, and the damage just kept accumulating. It wasn't like "there was never
enough downtime to do all they wanted", but that after a single rough score every single downtime
they couldn't even come close to dealing with their injuries, stress, heat, etc. Every remotely rough
score lead to a death spiral that ultimately lead to some economy-reset failure condition - trauma,
losing an NPC to the cops, etc. Those things are good in general, but it was so predictable that the
players just got frustrated. I kept trying to find any way to offer them a way out of the death spiral, but I
could never manage it without basically railroading them into avoiding all significant danger for a
score, which was boring.
How did you end up finding a middle ground? Was the death spiral as big a problem for you? For that
long a game, given that you only had one character replaced, it seems like you must have figured it
out.
3. I really hated the discretionary clocks - which is not really a thing unique to BitD, but they're so
prominent there. As GM, I kept finding myself in a position where a clock was about to fill and I had to
come up with a consequence, and I could plausibly tick a clock, but also plausibly do something else,
and it always felt awkward. Do I tick the clock? That feels like I'm being unfairly punishing (which is
also a problem given the death spirals), and also makes it feel pretty samey. Do I decide to do the
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other consequence instead of ticking the clock? That feels like I'm pulling punches. I kept finding that I
really wished the clocks were more automatic - that they weren't up to my discretion, especially for the
final tick.
This one I think maybe other people just don't mind as much. And I think a lot of my problem with it
probably reduces to the death spiral problem - I knew that ticking that last segment was more likely to
lead to/continue the death spiral than any other plausible consequence.
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1. Re the setting, absolutely. Like I said, I tried to change as much as I could. Often times, I did
change it. But some things are pretty tough to change! Change certain things about how
ghosts work for instance, and other things don't really work. There are certain details of how
ghosts work that other playbooks and items and such interact with. And without an
encyclopedic knowledge of the rules, it can be risky to change certain things because you
don't necessarily know whether there are those confounds lurking about or not. There was
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also the issue of "things the characters would know" - not contradicting their plans, but when
they don't attend to something about the setting that their characters would plausibly know
(e.g., how ghosts work in Doskvol), and I have to either silently change how ghosts work, let
their characters make a mistake that will end up being totally implausible, or stop and dump
exposition. Ghosts are a good example because the first time someone died, I had to stop the
game to explain about the bell, the Spirit Wardens, etc. and how they'd be coming for the
body. Could I have significantly altered or removed the Spirit Wardens? I suppose I could
have, but they're a faction in the city, they're involved in several districts and landmarks, they
tie into other things elsewhere in the setting.
2. Two issues: For one, I tried that, having it just cancel out injuries, but the issue still remained.
Which makes sense since the problem wasn't usually how much the injuries were reduced by
spending stress, but what happened if they run out of stress: they get injuries, and the death
spiral begins. But maybe more importantly, we weren't looking for "we're scoundrels and even
a bomb will do us no harm!" type of play. We weren't looking for that at all. The problem wasn't
difficulty or getting scraped up or even ending up with trauma or anything like that - all of that's
great! The problem was that it began to feel pretty predictable: as soon as one or two of them
have a rough score, if they ran low on stress and took some injuries, then you pretty much
knew how things were going to go for the next while. You would try to claw your way out by
spending coin and rep, but the disadvantages would compound while the rewards remained
the same, and the the death spiral would continue until it hit one of the economy resets like
trauma. So the desire to try to claw your way out of the hole, to spend resources to heal and
all that, pretty much disappeared after the third or so time things death spiralled - the players
wanted to just cut to the economy resets that occur at the bottom of the spiral, and the drama
of trying to recover, which was driving a lot of the gameplay, evaporated.
3. Again, the problem is not that they got hurt, burnt, or downtrodden after a difficult score. The
problem was that it often felt like there was no way out of the ensuing death spiral except
maybe to kill the game's momentum by taking the safest, most boring scores for a while to
give them access to more downtime and resources for recovery. I know that they can pay
Coin and Rep. I'm not talking hypothetically. I read the book and GMed the game weekly for
about 3 months. It's just that once things got a little bit dire, the compounding problems
reliably outpaced their resources. When scores went well, everything worked fine. When
scores went more averagely, it was fine too - the economies worked great, and the players
had fun balancing what they felt they needed to spend downtime and coin and rep on. But if
things went bad, it reliably death spiralled for a while until it hit an economy reset in a way that
eventually turned everyone pretty sour.
4. I just don't think "when it makes sense" is a very useful metric. Isn't it often the case that it
would make sense to tick the clock, but also make sense not to? Sure you can think of cases
where it's very obvious, where the most plausible thing is obviously to tick the clock, but aren't
there an awful lot of situations where it could go either way? If they fail Prowl and there's a
"noticed by the patrols" clock, then yeah, obviously I'm ticking that clock. But what if they fail a
roll involving a ghost in the area? Well, that could easily go either way. The whole thing with
the ghost making a bunch of noise could get them noticed by the patrols, right? But also
maybe not, and maybe some other consequences are more appropriate, and you ignore that
clock. The reason I don't particularly like clocks is that, when the clock is low, that can be a
pretty easy choice: tick the clock, and as the GM it buys you tension for basically nothing. But
then once it's the last segment of the clock, now you're in a weird place. You could tick the
clock, but that feels kind of like punishing the players - after all, you could have decided to do
other consequences and not involved the clock, and the clock's consequences are probably
more dire than the others would have been (after all, it filling up is the product of multiple
consequences - but then again maybe you leaned more towards ticking it whenever plausible
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because that bought you tension...). But on the other hand, if you choose not to tick the clock,
it can feel like pulling a punch.
Personally, I prefer clocks that have enforced ticking. Or at least that have a dictum like "if it's
plausible to tick the clock, you should tick the clock", rather than relying on the GM in
situations where it could plausibly go either way. I don't think that impacted the game
significantly though - it was something I didn't personally enjoy about GMing the system, but I
don't think it really hurt the experience of the players like the exposition or death spiral issues
did.
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Thanks for taking the time to comment, hopefully I can offer some advice!
1- This is a tough one for sure. One thing I benefitted from was having a group with similar buy-in,
meaning they all took the time outside of game to read up a bit on the setting as we went along. I never
worried about spoilers in the book because my players know that I liberally change things to suit our
game, so none of the “spoilers” in the book could be trusted. For a while, I started each session with 2-3
minutes of “Stuff You Should Know”. I’d pick a topic and give them a little exposition to start things off. I’d
usually pick a subject that was somehow relevant to the session ahead. If they’ve been doing some work
in The Docks, they’d start to learn more about Leviathan Hunters and the like.
2- I think we did a pretty good job staying in the middle ground. A lot of this came from my experience
running the same group through an 18-session campaign of Dungeon World. Like Blades in the Dark,
Dungeon World is fiction-first and relies on the GM to balance the difficulty on the fly. Also, the crew did a
good job of supporting each other to spread the hurt around, though they always did so thematically.
Don’t forget about the power of a resistance roll when it comes to avoiding or reducing Harm. Having a
trained Leech in the crew also helped with the healing clocks in downtime. You could give them the
opportunity to procure a friendly Physicker as an option.
3- This was a tough one for me as well. One thing I tried to do was make the ticking of a clock have a
narrative effect every time ticks are added or removed. This helped to build the tension as the clock got
closer and closer to completing. Don’t forget they can take actions to un-tick clock segments. That tug of
war can be really fun to narrate and helps give the crew priorities.
Honestly though, sometimes clocks didn’t work out for me, so I didn’t use them when it felt too shoe-
horned. I definitely became way more comfortable with them as the game went on. I had the most fun
using clocks to track the actions of the ever-growing cast of NPCs and Factions. Between every session
I’d roll some dice, tick some clocks, and see what sort of actions are occurring off-screen. Then I’d take
every opportunity to hint at these background machinations, usually thought rumors and articles in the
newspapers I Photoshopped for many of the sessions. As with all aspects of RPGs, use clocks when
they help you, and skip them if it’s slowing the game down.
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I like the idea of a short exposition dump at the beginning a lot. That'd be a lot better than trying to
do it mid-game. My players certainly have a lot of buy-in, but I didn't want to make them read
multiple chapters of the setting - that feels like a bit much to expect. Starting with some relevant
exposition seems like it'd be a nice way to get everyone into the game too, to demarcate the end of
chatting and the beginning of the game.
I still don't really know about the death spirals. I've run a lot of Dungeon World too, and the thing I've
GMed the most is Apocalypse World, so I'm certainly familiar with "fiction-first", although I'm not
totally sure that applies if you think the GM's role is to balance the difficulty. Fiction-first means you
let the fiction dictate what happens - the flow is from fiction to mechanics, difficulty is a reflex of the
fiction, not its own consideration. Balancing the difficulty yourself and determining what
happens/appears in the game on that basis is the opposite of fiction-first.
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The problem we had wasn't necessarily staying in the middle ground - a lot of the time we did that,
and it worked fine. The problem was that any time we didn't, when there was a string of bad luck or
someone pushed their limits or whatever, it initiated a death spiral where all the resources from the
score went into trying to heal the injury and stress from a couple of players, and often they still had a
little injury or less stress to spend than usual, and at the same time the group had less resources for
things like heat. And then those penalties and/or that lack of resources made it more likely that the
next score had problems, and the building heat made entanglements worse, which also drained
resources. If the initial situation was bad enough, it frequently just kept compounding, with the
players falling deeper into the pit even as they sunk all their resources into trying to claw their way
out each downtime, until finally they hit the bottom and some of the economy resets kicked in.
The first couple of times it spiralled down like that, it was fun. The players were desperately trying to
claw their way back to a good place, and even though it ultimately proved impossible, the
desperation and sense of pressure was great, as was the tragic ending. The trauma and arrest felt
properly tragic, and everyone was having a good time.
But by about the third time this happened, players had a more immediate sense of what was going
to happen. When a score went badly enough that two of them got pretty bad injuries, they just
sighed because they knew it would drain their resources too much to heal them, that they were
definitely headed for a death spiral, and they didn't really have interest in trying to claw their way
back again knowing it almost certainly wouldn't happen. They knew that trying to claw their way out
probably wouldn't work and that they'd spend all their resources on it anyway, meaning a period of
no development for the gang. That was when the first player asked if they could just abandon their
character and play a new one instead of trying to heal (and shortly thereafter left the game).
In terms of trying to heal, they actually procured a Physicker very early on, and I gave them a a
stronger one than they really ought to have had too (those who had read more of the rules and
caught this even kind of side-eyed me for playing softball...). But the cost of healing, especially with
an unlucky roll or two, was extremely rough. And usually it was more than one person injured - like
your players, mine did a good job spreading out their stress spending and injuries too, which is good
when things go averagely or well, and makes it more likely that they will, but also means that if
injuries were happening, it was probably because multiple characters were all low on stress, and
that means that injuries to multiple characters become more likely.
I do really love the game thematically though, and I think the downtime phase is very interesting. I'm
thinking that if I run it again, I might try to create some special kind of score that functions like an
economy reset - so you actually get that "things are bad; do you lay low and lick your wounds, or go
for broke?" feel. At present it doesn't really feel like the game offers that because the rewards for
pressing your luck when you're on the mend are broadly the same as running a normal score, but
with greater risk and fewer resources. So maybe a special score type when the chips are down
where the reward is a heat reset, injury resets, and stress resets (or some subset of those, maybe
give the players a choice). I've also considered maybe doing something similar when the crew gains
quality from reputation - you might be spiralling down, but if you can just hold out to get that
reputation, the new blood and the time spent expanding offers a respite, and maybe the cops who
were assigned to your case now realize they're inadequate to the task.
Re the clocks, I don't know that they ever ticked a clock backwards. That might be a good reminder
to the players, although my personal problem with clocks has a lot less to do with how they play
while they're ticking up and a lot more to do with that last segment - that's the one that is awkward to
GM in these games where the GM has more discretion about ticking clocks.
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Harm in Blades is much harder to deal with than Scum & Villainy. If you're handing out harm to your
players like candy, of course it's going to take them many, many downtime actions to heal it.
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[–] M0dusPwnens Tone Police 6 points 1 year ago*
I didn't mean "I'm handing out harm to my players like candy and I'm confused about why it's hurting
them". (I've also never played Scum & Villainy.)
The problem is that I wasn't. I handed out harm where it made sense to hand out harm. It wasn't like
I went out of my way to deal harm or to push them towards situations where harm was an obvious
consequence - that just happened naturally as they pursued exciting and interesting goals that
involved potential danger. A couple of times I went out of my way to try to offer scores where harm
was less likely, but (a) that felt like pulling punches in a pretty lame way (b) a lot of the time they
managed to put themselves in danger anyway and (c) the two times they did manage to avoid
significant danger were pretty boring scores. And it's not like the players were stupid or bloodthirsty
either - this is a pretty mature group of players used to playing more narrative games, not a D&D
group assuming that the solution to every problem is picking a fight or whatever.
And, in theory, that shouldn't really be a problem. I shouldn't have to pull punches because they're
supposed to be able to use stress to offset potential harm.
The problem I kept running into though was that once their stress got lower and they couldn't afford
to prevent harm, suddenly the next downtime has to be spent on healing (which also costs coin, and
takes a variable number of actions to actually heal), which also reduces the availability of downtime
actions for stress (and heat), which kept leading to a spiral where in the next score they had less
stress budget to avoid harm while also potentially facing penalties from remaining harm, and then by
the time their old harm was healed or nearly healed they had more harm, which kept the cycle going.
I don't really have any particular problem with that kind of spiral in general either. It's thematic, and it
was fun a lot of the time. But the problem was that it started to feel hopeless, which was less fun.
"Things are bad, can they make it out of this?" is fine. And it's fine and dramatic even if the answer is
"no". But when it feels like there's no way out of the death spiral once it begins, when the answer is
always "no", the question doesn't feel very interesting. It just wasn't clear how to pull themselves out
of it once they got caught in it except maybe to pursue boring, riskless scores to get access to more
downtime actions.
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Were they spending coin on extra downtime actions? If they were doing risky stuff they probably
should be suitably rewarded with enough coin to not be left on the backfoot.
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How many people are in your group? I suspect that is one of the key elements in setting
difficulty, since every player increases the available stress for resisting consequences. If your
group is small you may have to consciously pull your punches.
(I found the opposite, with a 5-person group I had to be really aggressive with consequences to
get anything past their resistances.)
Another possible reason is that your players may be shy about taking Trauma - although it's the
closest thing the game has to unavoidable death, until you tick your last box taking a Trauma is
usually preferable to ending the session wounded and high on stress. Trauma's even grant
additional xp triggers!
The only other thing I can suggest is that the players build with resistances in mind, particularly
Prowess if the characters are eating too much Harm.
Maybe also increase the amount of Coin rewarded for Scores, which translates into additional
Downtimes to heal and clear stress.
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It was four players initially (not including me as GM). About halfway through, one dropped
out. So I played a fair number of sessions with 4 and with 3 players.
We definitely felt that way about Trauma initially - people were really shy about taking it - but
after a while it became obvious that trauma was going to happen. But that was the problem
- trauma is one of the things I meant by "economy reset".
Essentially, the problem was that if they ran low on stress, took some harm, score was
rough (even if successful), they were in a situation where it seemed like the thing to do was
to try to claw their way out of it by spending what coin and rep they had to heal as best they
could, etc. And the first several times, it was some great drama. They were securing a
healer, dealing with entanglements, trying to manage their heat and their injuries and their
stress. And they didn't quite have the resources to do all of it, so they went into the next
score at a disadvantage, and that compounded. The first time they eventually failed, it was
fun. But by about the third time that things eventually spiralled like this, I think they just felt
like the answer was "okay, well, I'm probably not getting out of this situation so may as well
just cut to the trauma" (and/or give up someone for arrest to clear heat, etc.). Which was
unfortunate because the clawing part was really fun!
Perhaps you're right and the answer was just increasing the amount of coin rewarded for
scores. I think in some cases that would have felt weird - a couple of times the scores that
kicked off the death spiral weren't particularly special or dangerous, and the players just had
a run of bad luck with the dice - but on the whole maybe that was the answer.
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I found Harm quite frustrating as well. The game's reward economy seems to flow much better if
the DM is very careful with handing out Harm as opposed to doing it as a realistic consequence.
I quit running BitD partially because softballing the risks seemed required if you wanted the
game to have legs.
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On the death spiral: one thing I didn’t realize until pretty late in my game is that system mastery matters
for Blades. The difference between a player who optimizes her character for Resistance rolls (spread out
Action points, make sure to take armor moves) and one who doesn’t is significant.
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Hey that’s awesome! I’m wondering how you structured your “seasons”. Did you discuss upfront what the
goal for each season was with the players or did you plan it in the back of your hear and just let the plot
hooks lead them there?
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Somewhere in the book it mentioned that campaigns tend to fit into 12ish session seasons. I took it with
a grain of salt but lo and behold it seemed to pace out that way. After the first season, I sort of introduced
the idea retroactively and moved on with seasons in mind. I was always looking for places to take the
plot in the interactions the crew had with the world around them. I just put out some pieces and
whichever ones interested them the most became the direction I started to plan ahead in.
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Did you have an issue with spotlight? I've read that you can get into a situation where one player has maxed
out a skill, so it makes sense for them to be taking all of the actions.
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Not with my group, thankfully. Everyone knows that they need to share the spotlight and we really have
no problems with that. I also address people directly, looking for a reaction, when they haven’t spoken up
in a bit. Also narrative comes first! Even if one team member has an amazing skill, they can’t always be
the one to do it. They may be distracted by another threat, or separated, or anything that prevents
someone from always rolling the same actions.
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I'm a complete newbie to the Blades system and am just starting a campaign with friends using Scum and
Villainy. Can you provide any great "first timer" pointers? I've got maybe 5 yrs experience with some other
tabletop but not this one.
Our first two table sessions were a session 0 and 1. I really enjoyed coming up with character concepts and
world concepts as a group, and our first gameplay. But I'm having trouble getting into character. I chose the
Cutter/Muscle type. I'm having big trouble picking my vice so it's not just "I like to get in bloody fights,"
because I don't just want to be a typical stereotype. Any advice there too? Thanks so much!! (my character is
female, if it matters, has ties to an old crime family but took the fall for a bad job, only just got out of jail, and
now wants to make her own name with her new crew)
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I’m not the OP, but it appears that /u/noobule thinks I have some thing to offer ;p
I did make this comment on a similar topic on the BitD subreddit. It is geared towards BitD GMs, but I
think it is applicable to players as well.
My highest recommendation is to go through the Player’s Best Practices. It really helps to direct your
play to get the most out of the game. Those Best Practices are basically your Bible. If you don’t have the
book, kindly request that the GM (or whoever else has the book) sends you a full copy of the section. It is
a very worthwhile read! It is the thing I want all my players to be the most aware of.
As far as your Vice is concerned- collaborate with the GM and the table. It is perfectly fine to not have a
Vice dialed in until the character starts to develop a little bit over time.
If I were your GM, I’d recommend Obligation as a Vice, an Obligation to help the members of the family
you still care about (or maybe those “harmed” by the family, perhaps?).
Otherwise, fiction first! Don’t get hung up on Action selection! Work with the GM and the table to
interrogate your fictional approach to understand what you are trying accomplish.
That is my 2 cents. Hope that helps.
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Thanks for your 2 cents! I am not aware of the Player Best Practices; I will ask my GM!
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I was about to respond but you pretty much nailed it! The biggest thing I’d say is to always be
thinking fiction first!
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/u/sully5443
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How many sessions before you really got the system and how many before you’d mastered it? What are
your tips for people who haven’t?
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I don’t know if I ever hit a point that I can say I mastered anything. Every session is another step in the
direction of learning how to run this world with these sets of rules. The more you’re familiar with the
setting, the easier it is to come up with interesting consequences. There is so much in Doskvol that can
complicate any score, and if you have Doskvol in your head, its not hard to see what the world does in
response to the player actions.
To try to give you an answer, I’d say I became a lot more comfortable with the system around the end of
season 1. I was used to fiction first gaming, but also keep a high bar for myself, so it may have
happened earlier, but I remember an increase in confidence around that point.
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What mechanics do you think we're most worth stealing from BitD and using in other games?
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I don’t know how you’d do it mechanically in another ruleset, but the flashback mechanism in Blades in
the Dark is so much damn fun. It allows the PCs to feel super prepared for everything without actually
throwing off the difficulty. Also it gets rid of ALL that pre-planning.
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Of the systems I’ve played (DnD5e, Savage Worlds, Dungeon World, Fiasco, WWWRPG, Dread, etc.) I
think the “Forged in the Dark” system fits my GMing style best.
Great write up! How would you pitch Blades to those unfamiliar with it? What kind of experience does it do
well? Is it difficult to GM/Prep for?
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Thanks! Admittedly, Blades is a weird game to pitch. I’m grateful that my players are used to my long-
winded pitches, but the main points to hit, in my opinion are:
It’s like Oceans 11 in a dark fantasy world
It takes place in a haunted city surrounded by lightning barriers, the only thing separating it from
the post-apocalyptic wasteland beyond its borders
You play a crew of criminals making a name for themselves among a city of gangs and criminal
factions
You’ll manage your crew between scores, and grow more powerful as you attract followers,
capture turf, and go to war with the other factions of the city
The experience I think it emulates best is that of something like an Oceans 11. It’s highly cinematic,
replacing long stretches of planning with jumping right into the middle of the score. There’s a guard up
ahead? Initiate a flashback to the night before where you bribed him to let you pass. Without making the
players immortal, the game gives them, the tools to always be prepared, and always feel like
professional criminals in a movie.
It’s difficult to run if you don’t have experience with narrative-forward RPGs. I had played a lot of Fiasco
and ran an 18-session campaign of Dungeon World with the same crew. The prep is light, but becoming
comfortable with that style of DMing can take some time. It’s worth it though, that level of comfort with
improv and narrative DMing has helped me in all of the RPGs I play.
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This is awesome! I wrapped up a 1.5 year BitD campaign recently and likewise saved all my notes; it makes
me really happy when other people share their materials.
Edit: can you talk a bit about how much prep you did vs. in-play notes? Looking at (say) the One Notes
pages, that mostly looks like prep work? And how did you track NPC faction progress clocks? Were those all
in the Series Bible?
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I definitely leaned on prep a lot more in the early days of the campaign. Once I switched over to
handwritten noted on my iPad, I focused much harder on NPC and Faction motivations and preparation
rather than actively trying to prepare for a session that could go in any direction at any minute. NPC
faction clocks were kept in the series bible once I made that transition. Others were less organized and
sadly didn’t make it to the end of the campaign. Going forward, I love having everything digital so its
always at hand.
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I have been a GM for many games, many groups and so on but my "main group" (aka, my high school
friends and college buddies that came together to play for many years as a group) has always been into
D&D in various forms and short adventure in other games that don't distance themselves from that structure.
Now, after the last campaign I managed to talk them into trying short adventures of 4/5 sessions in different
systems, just to see what the results are.
BinD is one of the games that I want to try the most, but I am not so sure that they will buy into a game with
such a specific setting and concept. Any idea how to sell it to such a group?
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It was definitely a change for us coming from Dungeon World, which is a completely standard fantasy
setting (though it was far from standard with the changes we made and the input from the players).
Blades was our first game this tied to a setting. It’s an fascinating city that has a lot of really interesting
details to it. Maybe flipping through and pulling out some quotes about spirits, hulls, and electroplasm.
Just the highlights of the weirdness. It also runs pretty well as a one-shot, ignoring crew stuff and
simplifying downtime. There was a great article posted somewhere about running a Scum and Villainy
one-shot, and a lot of the same applies.
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Oh please. Blind Dave was the real MVD (Most Valuable Dave)
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