1443

SOME SUGGESTIONS FOR SUCCESSFUL

INTERVIEWING IN THE A.B.A. CLIENT
COUNSELING COMPETITION

Interviewing and counseling skills are critical for effective law

practice. The American Bar Association's Client Counseling Compe-
tition provides an opportunity for law students to practice, develop,
and perfect these skills. Through consultation situations and criti-
ques by practicing lawyers and other professionals trained in counsel-
ing, the law student participants learn in a unique and practical
manner. This article is designed to help law students prepare for and
succeed in the Client Counseling Competition. The suggestions and
ideas are directly applicable to the competition. In addition, most of
the techniques suggested in this article can be applied in the practice
of law.'
Professor Louis M. Brown of the University of Southern Califor-
nia Law Center originated the idea of a Client Counseling Competi-
tion in 1969.2 It was called the "Mock Law Office Competition" at
that time and was held on an interscholastic level between the Uni-
versity of Southern California Law School and the University of San
Francisco Law School. 3 The competition has continued annually
since 1969; however, the American Bar Association, Law Student Di-
vision, has supervised and carried out the competition since 1973. 4
Believing that the attorney-client relationship had to be taught
and learned, Professor Brown developed the idea of the competition
as a teaching tool. 5 The format is designed so that two students role-
play attorneys. They interview a third person who role-plays a cli-
ent. 6 The objective of the competition is to give the student an op-

1. This article focuses on the judging standards and gives suggestions for success-
ful interviewing which can be utilized in the Client Counseling Competition but also
can successfully be used in practice. Of course, the suggestions specifically directed to-
ward the students' interactions with the judges will not be applicable in practice.
2. A.B.A. Law Student Division, 1985 Client Counseling Competition: Rules,
Standards for Judging & Fee Schedule 1 (1985) [hereinafter referred to as 1985 Client
Counseling Rules].
3. Brown, A Personal and Historical Introduction 1 (1978), reprinted in L.
BROWN, CLIENT COUNSELING COMPETITION: EXPLANATION AND CONSULTATION SITUA-
TIONS (1980).
4. Id.
5. Id.
6. A drama student usually works better than a law student because law stu-
dents are often too familiar with legal terminology. It was found that the drama stu-
dents helped depict a more true-to-life interviewing situation. Id. at 4. The rules now
prohibit the use of law students as clients at the regional level of competition. 1985
Client Counseling Rules at 6.
1444 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

portunity to experience an initial law-office consultation.7 The

students are judged by professionals in the law and counseling fields.
Although the concept of the role-playing format was initiated in a
classroom setting, it was Professor Brown's desire to expand the role-
playing to a competitive level in a way analagous to the moot court
competition. This, in turn, led to the development of the interscho-
lastic competition.
The level of participation in the competition has grown consider-
ably.8 Schools eligible to participate in the competition must be
American Bar Association approved or recognized Canadian law
schools. 9 Participating schools may choose their teams in any man-
ner they wish. Many schools hold intramural competitions while
others select their representatives from a Legal Interviewing and
Counseling class. The Law Student Division encourages competitive
team selection by furnishing competing schools with intramural con-
sultation situations.10 After the individual school teams are selected,
by whatever manner of selection, regional competitions are held.
One winning team is chosen from each region to advance to nation-
als, and one winning team is chosen at the national level.11
The Client Counseling Competition provides a number of bene-
fits to the participants. It "promote[s] greater knowledge and inter-
est among law students in the preventive law and counseling
functions of law practice. 1 2 It also assists students in "develop[ing]
interviewing, planning, and analytical skills in the lawyer-client rela-
tionship in the law office." 13 It promotes "professional competence in
legal practice, including the ability to conduct the initial interview
with a client, perhaps redefining his or her problems; to suggest a
plan for his or her future course of conduct, utilizing preventive law
techniques; and to deal with the psychological overtones of the
'14
interview.
The practical function of the competition is pointed out by Pro-
fessor Brown in a comparison between the Client Counseling Compe-
tition and the Moot Court Competition. In the competitions' relation
to law practice, the Client Counseling Competition stresses skills

7. Brown, supra note 3, at 1.

8. The 1969 Competition had 2 participating schools. In 1984, 110 schools partici-
pated in the Competition. Client Counseling Winners Announced, 12 STUDENT LAW.
May 1984, at 54, 54.
9. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 2.
10. Id. at 1-2.
11. Id. at 1-5.
12. Id. at 1.
13. Id.
14. Advertisement for 1984 Client Counseling Competition, 12 STUDENT LAW.,
Oct. 1983, at 44, 44.
1985] SUCCESSFUL INTER VIEWING 1445

which are "a frequent activity" in law practice, whereas the Moot
Court Competition stresses skills which are "a rare activity" in law
practice. 15 In a survey of how attorneys spend their time, it was dis-
covered that, on the average, attorneys spend less than 1.25 hours per
week in court. 1 6 In contrast, attorneys have an average of four meet-
ings with clients, equaling approximately three hours or more, and
17
four hours of time on the phone with clients each week.
Since attorneys spend a significant amount of time with their cli-
ents, it is important to learn techniques for effective interviewing and
counseling. In the past, this area of legal education has not been em-
phasized in curricula. Now, with the advancement of clinical training
programs for law students, about seventy percent of the law schools
have interviewing courses and slightly over half have counseling
courses.1 8 These courses are usually elective. The Client Counseling
Competition serves as an additional educational method for students
to develop the aforementioned skills. The competition interview par-
allels an actual interview in a law-office situation. It assists in creat-
ing an educational environment tailored to the needs of the future
practitioner interested in providing high quality professional services.
It removes the student from the world of appellate cases read from a
textbook to the real world in which attorneys must deal with human
beings, their concerns, and their feelings, as well as their legal and
non-legal problems.
Throughout the role-playing interview, the students are observed
by judges. To assist the judges in determining the winning team in a
round, judging standards were devised. The standards do not focus
solely on legal analysis but also incorporate the humanistic factors
necessary in successful interviewing. The judges must compare suc-
cessive interviews with the same client and choose a winning team
after they have observed all of the. teams in that round.
The suggestions given in this article have been developed
through the competition experience of the Creighton Client Counsel-
ing Board, an analysis of national and regional level competition vide-
otapes,' 9 and the author's personal experience. 20 Of course, they

15. Brown, supra note 3, at 7.

16. This includes both trial and appellate level of court work, Smith, A Profile of
Lawyer Lifestyles, 70 A.B.A.J., Feb. 1984, at 50, 50-52.
17. Id.
18. Survey and Directory of Clinical Legal Education, xvi (1978-1979).
19. The author, the Creighton Client Counseling Board, and the Law Review
wish to thank the American Bar Association Law Student Division for its helpful
assistance in making these tapes available for this research.
20. The author and her teammate, Mr. Brian Nolan, won the 1984 Creighton Cli-
ent Counseling Intramural Competition and were Regional Finalists.
1446 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

should be taken for what they are: merely suggestions. They are by
no means intended to stifle a student's flexibility to adapt as neces-
sary to situations presented by the "client."

PRE-COMPETITION PREPARATION

Student attorneys can do several things to increase their chances

of success prior to the actual competition. At this stage, the students
can do the following: 1) research the topic; 2) prepare general inter-
view questions; 3) practice as a team; 4) increase awareness of the
judging standards; and 5) learn the judges' names and professional
backgrounds, if that information is available. An examination of
each step of preparation follows.
Each year, a specific area of law is chosen as the subject matter
of the competition, such as landlord-tenant law, family law, employ-
ment discrimination, trusts and wills, etc. A general knowledge of
that area of law is important. Reading a treatise or the applicable
section of a legal encyclopedia or a nutshell on the law helps famil-
iarize the student with the topic.
Next, up to ten days prior to the competition, the student attor-
neys will be given a memorandum from their legal secretary that
provides some, although usually minimal, information regarding the
specific nature of the client's problem.2 1 When the memorandum is
obtained, it is helpful for the student attorneys to examine it care-
fully. They may discuss the situation and the different possibilities in
general. It is, of course, impossible to determine the exact situation
and predetermine how an interview will progress, but it is helpful to
think of some possibilities and prepare some general questions. It is
also important not to jump to conclusions; for example, the client
may be a female or a male and may or may not be the party with
legal rights in the situation. By discussing the memorandum's con-

21. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 3. Sample memoranda can be obtained for a
nominal fee from the ABA/Law Student Division, 750 North Lake Shore Drive, Chi-
cago, Illinois 60611. Ask for the copy of Client Counseling Competition: Explanation
and Consultation Situations. An example of a memo used in the 1984 Intraschool
Competition follows:
Consultation Situation for Lawyers:
Memorandum to File
TO: Lawyers
FROM: Secretary
DATE: November 1983
RE: Mr. Ray McInnis
I have scheduled an appointment with you for a new client. Mr. McInnis is
the Business Manager of the Grand Hotel here in town. The hotel tentatively
agreed to rent its ballroom to a local club, but now wants to get out of any
commitment.
1985] SUCCESSFUL INTERVIEWING 1447

tents, the team can devise some general questions and think of some
possibilities. Just thinking out loud together, as a team, about the sit-
uation ahead of time is a good way to prepare for the actual
interview.
The next suggestion is to practice together as a team. The pur-
pose of this is to develop a rapport with the teammate, to become
aware of each other's styles, and to develop a smoothness in the
team's approach. If teammates become comfortable with each other,
it will become apparent to the client and the judges. it is important
to learn not to interrupt each other, to learn which teammate han-
dles certain situations more effectively, and so forth. If the team can
get a third person to practice as a client, all the better. Of course, the
actual interview cannot be duplicated because teammates will not
have access to the confidential memorandum given to the competi-
tion client and judges, but interviewing and counseling techniques,
nonetheless, can be practiced. The course of practice is also an easy
way to share general information about the legal topic. This practice
will also serve to increase the team's confidence when the time
comes for the actual competition interview. It is helpful to remem-
ber that everyone is nervous to some extent when they try something
new. Some may lack confidence in themselves, not because they can-
not do well, but because they have not had the opportunity to de-
velop the necessary skills. The pre-competition practice should
lessen some of that nervousness and should encourage team members
to realize that they can do well, with work and practice. When they
have developed this confidence from practice, it is displayed to the
client, who will feel more at ease and reassured, and to the judges,
who will reflect it in their ratings.
Finally, at this point, teammates should discuss what they will
wear at the competition. Generally speaking, they will want to por-
22
tray a professional image.
During the pre-competition stage, the team should also become
familiar with the judging standards. These are the specific counsel-
ing and interviewing skills by which the team will be judged. Knowl-
edge of them is obviously very important because the winning team is
selected by the overall rating on each of the individual standards.
The next section of this article, "The Competition Interview," deline-
ates specific suggestions under each of the judging standards. If a
team practices ahead of time and works at developing its techniques
in each area, the team will learn its strengths and weaknesses; time

22. Two references for appearance advice are J. MOLLOY, DRESS FOR SUCCESS
(1975) and J. MOLLOY, THE WOMAN's DRESS FOR SUCCESS BOOK (1977).
1448 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

spent reviewing and practicing before the competition is always time

well-used.
Prior to the competition, it is also beneficial to learn the names
of the judges for individual rounds and the professional backgrounds
of each, such as attorney, judge, psychiatrist, pastor, psychologist, so-
cial worker, or school counselor, if this information is made available
before the round. The information is helpful because it makes it eas-
ier for team members to introduce themselves to the judges; more
importantly, knowledge of judges' backgrounds sensitizes the team to
which types of skills may be more essential to a particular panel.
In sum, if a team does this type of preparation before the compe-
tition, it will have increased immensely its chances of success at the
competition level.

THE COMPETITION INTERVIEW

To provide an idea of what a competition interview is like, a brief

overview of the interview in chronological order will be presented,
followed by some specific suggestions.
A team will be assigned a room for the interview, where the
judges will already be waiting.23 When the team enters the room, the
team members should greet the judges, make good eye contact, shake
hands, and introduce themselves. If the team is competing at the re-
gional or national level, it should not give its school name. After in-
troducing themselves, the team members should examine the setting
of the room. If necessary, they should rearrange the furniture so
that the judges can observe both the student attorneys and the client.
At this point, the team members may have a very brief discussion
with each other prior to the client's arrival.
After the client arrives and is greeted, the team should explain
to the client that there is some initial data which must be obtained,
such as name, address, etc., and then the team will progress to the
main part of the interview-communicating with the client about his
or her reason for coming to meet with the "attorneys." Generally, af-
ter determining the client's problem, the student attorneys will ex-
plain and discuss the law involved. A collaborative plan of action is
then formulated, in which the student attorneys help the client iden-
tify and consider the choices and their consequences. When a deci-
sion is made as to what plan to follow, it will ordinarily be time to
conclude the interview and make follow-up plans. The client should
be escorted out of the interviewing room, following which the stu-

23. If your team is the first to compete in a round, you may arrive before the
judges.
1985] SUCCESSFUL INTER VIEWING 1449

dent attorneys will return for the post-interview reflection. At this

time, the student attorneys should discuss the interview and any con-
cerns or problematic areas, mention items they forgot to obtain dur-
ing the interview, and discuss their plan of action. They may dictate
a letter or a memorandum for their file. When this post-interview
wrap-up is over, the student attorneys end the consultation session,
and thank the judges. At this point, the judges may give a very brief
critique. 24 The student attorneys then wait outside of the interview
room until all teams in their round have completed their interviews.
The judges will then call all teams back into the room for the judging
critique, announce the winners, and give suggestions for future
25
rounds.
The following specific suggestions for successful interviewing are
arranged following the format of the 1985 Judging Standards for the
Client Counseling Competition. As mentioned previously, this article
is specifically aimed at the Client Counseling Competition, but many
of the following techniques are equally applicable in actual law prac-
tice. The entire point of the competition is to help prepare students
for the practical aspects of law practice.
The first standard is "Working Atmosphere." Here, the judges
will be observing how effectively the team has "established the be-
ginning of an effective professional relationship and working atmos-
phere and, if and when appropriate, oriented the client to the special
nature of the relationship, including confidentiality, fees, mutual ob-
ligations and rights, after hours availability, duration and plan of the
' 26
interview, etc., in a courteous, sensitive and professional manner.
The working atmosphere for conducting the interview should be
comfortable, private and quiet, yet promote a business-like environ-
ment. Granted, every competition interview room may not be
designed to promote these qualities, so the student attorneys will
have to work with what they have available. In any event, they
should arrange the seating to promote effective communication.
Both attorneys and the client should be able to make eye contact
readily, and the judges should be able to see the faces of the students
and client from where they sit. Often, a barrier to communication is
created when both student attorneys sit behind the desk and the cli-

24. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 4.

25. The judges use the format of the judging standards. Students usually have an
opportunity to ask the judges questions.
26. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 10.
1450 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

ent sits across from them. 2 7 If a desk or a table is used, a more suita-
ble and favorable arrangement is the following:
Student
o X Attorney

Judges 0 X Student
Attorney

o 0
Client
Another method that some student attorneys have used success-
fully is an informal seating arrangement without a table or a desk.
Whichever approach is used, the room should be set up to the student
attorneys' satisfaction prior to bringing the client into the interview
room. The student attorneys should also make sure the interview
room is neat before the client enters. For example, wastebaskets
should be moved out of direct sight and clutter should be removed
from desks.
The mechanics of opening the interview are relatively simple.
One of the student attorneys should go to the waiting area or the
door and personally greet the client and introduce him or herself.
The client should be brought into the interviewing room, and the
teammate should be introduced to the client.28 One of the student
attorneys should show the client where to be seated. They should
ask the client how he or she prefers to be addressed. If the team has
water available, they may ask the client if he or she would like
some.2 This period is the time when the team should make the cli-
ent feel welcome and when the development of rapport begins. A
few moments of general conversation, perhaps about the weather or
some pleasant topic, is appropriate, but this conversation should be
kept brief.30
At this point, the team can begin with the initial part of the in-
terview. Something similar to the following is appropriate and
effective.

27. This may be the best approach, however, when there are two "clients."
28. See Videotape No. 159, 4/1/79 Nationals, Round III, Wyoming (good example
of greeting clients). This videotape and all further cited videotapes are available from
the A.B.A./Law Student Division, 750 North Lake Shore Drive, Chicago, Illinois 60611.
There is a charge for shipping and handling.
29. Water and other props may be used. It is a matter of team style. Some judges
like the idea, and others do not.
30. See Videotape No. 160, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III, Washington (example of
how to develop initial rapport with client).
1985] SUCCESSFUL INTERVIEWING 1451

Student Attorney: "When we first meet with a new client,

there is some initial information we need to obtain to open
the new file. Let me ask you these few routine questions,
and then I'll explain
'31
what will go on today."
Client: "All right."
Next, it will be necessary to present some explanations to help
the client feel at ease and comfortable. One way to introduce these
explanations is to ask whether the client has ever seen a lawyer
before, if this is not apparent from the secretary's memorandum.
32
Often, clients have not.
Student Attorney: "We realize when you come to see an at-
torney for the first time, there are some initial concerns you
may have."
Client: "Yes, I'm worried about anyone knowing what I'm
going to tell you, and the money you'll charge for your help
is a real concern."
Student Attorney: "Everything you tell us will be confiden-
tial. You may see us take a few notes. This is to help us
with our memories so we can dictate a memo for the file.
The secretary will also keep information confidential."
Client: "That helps to know. But what about those fees you
charge?"
Student Attorney: "Our fees are $25.00 for this first inter-
view today, and then, if you want us to continue working for 33
you after today, our work will be billed at $50.00 per hour."
Client: "That's not as bad as I thought it would be. But
there are two of you here. Does that mean I'll be charged
double?"
Student Attorney: "No. Both of us are here today because it
is our firm's policy to have two attorneys present at the first
interview. The charge for today remains $25.00 even though
both of us are here. That way, we are both familiar with
your situation, and if you should call in and need something,
and one of us is in court or out of town, the other will be
here to help you."
Client: "Okay, that sounds fine. Now you said $50.00 an
hour. How many hours will it take?"
Student Attorney: "After you've told us about your situa-
tion, we'll give you an estimate of the approximate number

31. See Videotape No. 197, 3/28/81, Finals, Round II, Boston (explanation of how
interview will proceed); see also Appendix infra for information to obtain during
interview.
32. If the client has previously seen a lawyer, then the student attorneys can re-
cap these explanations by saying, "Then you know that everything you tell us is
confidential."
33. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 13. All students must use this uniform fee
schedule.
1452 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

of hours of work it will require. Now, we are going to have

you explain your situation to us shortly. We may ask ques-
tions. We'll try to explain why the information is necessary.
If, at any time, you have any concerns or questions, please
let us know. We'll work together to try to come up with
some approaches to help you and decide what each of us will
do. We've asked the secretary to hold our calls.
34
Would you
like to tell us now why you are here today?"
This approach helps put the client at ease by addressing his or
her initial concerns. It also provides the transition into the next
judging standard, "Description of the Problem," by asking an open-
ended question-"Would you like to tell us now why you are here to-
day?" Under this standard, the judges will evaluate how well the
student attorneys "[1]earned how the client viewed his or her situa-
tion, using a combination of listening and questioning, drawing out
both information and feelings, as appropriate, to develop a reasonably
complete and reliable description of the problem. '35 The use of an
open-ended question here allows the client to explain his or her situ-
ation in his or her own words. An approach such as this one assists
the client in verbalizing, helps the client feel more at ease, and al-
lows the student attorneys to listen and observe non-verbal behavior.
When the client stops talking, the student attorneys can use more
open-ended questions to encourage information flow, such as "Tell
me more about ... ." Another approach that can be used is for the
student attorneys to summarize and validate what the client has ini-
tially said and then to say, "Start at the beginning again and tell us
what happened in as much detail as possible. '36 The student attor-
neys should try not to interrupt the client, even if he or she is giving
some legally irrelevant details. Sometimes a useful function of an at-

34. See generally any of the following videotapes for alternate successful methods
of interviewing styles:
1978: No. 134, 4/1/78 Nationals, Afternoon, Marquette (First place winners); No. 132,
4/1/78, Nationals, Afternoon, New Mexico, (Second Place).
1979: No. 159, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III, Wyoming (First place); No. 158, 4/1/79, Na-
tionals, Round III, Valparaiso (Second place); No. 160, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III,
Washington (Third place).
1981: No. 200, 3/28/81, Finals, Round III, Texas (First place); No. 197, 3/28/81, Finals,
Round II, Boston (Second place); No. 198, 3/28/81, Finals, Round III, Cooley (Third
place).
1982: No. 232, 3/26/82, Finals, Round III, Pittsburg (First place); No. 227, 3/26/82,
Finals, Round II, McGeorge (Second place); No. 230, 3/26/82, Finals, Round III, Wis-
consin (Third place).
35. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 10.
36. See Videotape No. 227, 3/26/82, Finals, Round II, McGeorge (technique of vali-
dation: "I want to give you some feeback as to what we're perceiving here ... is that
what you meant?") and No. 228, 3/26/82, Finals, Round II, Wyoming (technique of
summarizing).
1985] SUCCESSFUL INTER VIEWING 1453

torney is to be a good listener to someone who just needs to "blow off

steam" or who is upset about a problem. Of course, in an extreme
case of rambling the student attorneys may want to interrupt. Most
37
of the details should come out with this approach.
If there are still specific questions the team needs to raise, they
can be asked a little further on in the interview. Leaning forward
slightly helps show interest in what the client is saying and will facil-
itate communication. Nodding your head or saying "Mm-hmm" will
also help the client communicate. Good eye contact is also very im-
portant.38 If one of the student attorneys is taking notes, the other
must maintain eye contact with the client. Since comprehension is
critical to communication, the student attorneys must be sure to use
language that their client is able to understand. If some special legal
terminology must be used, it should be explained in "plain English"
to the client. Another important part of communication with the cli-
ent is the display of empathy as the client is talking.3 9 For example,
if the client has experienced unfortunate events or hardships, it is
good to express sympathy-"I am sorry to hear that," or concern-
"You must be going through a difficult period." If the situation is an
emotional one, it may be helpful to have a tissue nearby for the client
who is crying. By using these techniques, the student attorneys
should get a good idea of the client's view of the situation, develop a
good rapport with the client, and readily determine the problem.
The next judging standard by which the student attorneys will
be assessed is their ability to determine the "Client's Goals and Ex-
pectations." The criterion for this standard is how well the student
attorneys "[l]earned the client's goals and initial expectations and
modified or developed these as necessary. ' 40 Determining what the
client wants makes the entire interview much simpler. There is no
reason to suggest litigation if the client wants to avoid going to court.
A simple method of determining the client's goals and expectations is
to ask an open-ended question at this point in the interview, such as,
"How would you like this to come out?" Careful listening and obser-
vation of the client can also assist in determining the client's goals
and expectations. The student attorneys should use the process of re-
flection to help the client verbalize these goals and expectations. For
example, in response to a client who asks, "Can they really do that to

37. See Videotape No. 159, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III, Wyoming, (approaches to
use if refocus of client is needed: "I wonder if we could refocus on. ; "Getting back
to the agreement ... ").
38. Id. (demonstrates communication facilitators).
39. See Videotape No. 197, 3/28/81, Finals, Round II, Boston (how to demonstrate
empathy appropriately).
40. 1984 Client Counseling Rules at 10.
1454 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

me?" the student attorney may respond, "You seem quite concerned
about what might happen." This entire process helps the client ex-
press his goals, such as determining legal rights and courses of action
that he or she might take. If the student attorneys encourage the cli-
ent's communication through these techniques, the client will feel
more free to offer his or her feelings, thoughts, and questions. If the
client is uncertain as to what he or she wants from the student attor-
neys or what should be done in the situation, the student attorneys
should help the client clarify his or her goals.4 1 Sometimes, the cli-
ent may have unrealistic goals or intentions of progressing with ac-
tions that are unwise or even illegal. In those situations, the student
attorneys will need to explain the consequences and help the client
reconsider his goals. Failure to do so may raise important issues of
professional ethics. 42 The student attorneys' primary consideration is
eliciting the client's goals and expectations at this point in the inter-
view so that the remainder of time in the consultation can be used
effectively.
The next judging standard is "Problem Analysis." Under this
standard, the judges determine how effectively the team "[alnalyzed
the client's problem with creativity and from both legal and non-legal
perspectives, resulting in a clear and useful formulation of the prob-
lem."' 43 It is very important for the student attorneys to be flexible
at this point. Although it is imperative that the team prepare well
ahead of the interview and perhaps have a checklist of necessary data
to gather, the team should not be so inflexible and rigid that it lets
preconceived notions guide it rather than what is actually occurring
in the interview. The student attorneys should continue to pay close
attention to all communication from the client. If more details are
necessary and they were not gathered from the open-ended questions
asked earlier, direct questions should be asked to finish gathering the
essential information. This process of gathering the facts should lead
the team to intelligent formulation of the problem. Attention should
be given to both the legal and non-legal aspects of the problem. In-
deed, in analyzing the problem, it is helpful to distinguish between
these two aspects."
One of the student attorneys should explain the governing law to
the client and the legal issues involved. As previously noted, this in-

41. See Videotape No. 159, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III, Wyoming (example of
how to clarify goals).
42. See note 47 and accompanying text infra.
43. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 10.
44. See Videotape No. 159, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III, Wyoming (demonstrates
excellent problem analysis).
1985] SUCCESSFUL INTERVIEWING 1455

formation must be communicated skillfully in language that the cli-

ent can comprehend. 45 In analyzing the non-legal aspects of the
problem, the student attorneys should be tactful and considerate.
The client should be assisted in looking at consequences. It is often
helpful if the client is brought to see the weak and strong points in
relation to the legal and non-legal aspects of the situation.4 6 If there
are areas in which the team is unsure of the law, the client should be
told that the student attorneys will have to do some research for spe-
cifics; to the extent that it can be done, however, the student attor-
neys should explain the general principles of law.
The fifth judging standard, "Moral and Ethical Issues," ties in
with "Problem Analysis." Here, it is significant that the team
"[r]ecognized, clarified and responded to any moral or ethical issues
'47
which may have arisen, without being prejudicial in judgments. It
will be easier to recognize moral and ethical issues if student attor-
neys remember that they are dealing with a human being, not just a
legal problem. They must, however, not only recognize moral and
ethical issues, but respond appropriately to these issues in a nonjudg-
mental manner. The student attorneys should not show a negative
reaction to the client's statements or actions, even when they are
contrary to their own beliefs or values. If the situation presents a
professional ethics dilemma, the student attorneys should explain the
professional code of ethics involved and should show concern for the
48
client's comprehension of the explanation.
After analyzing the legal and non-legal problems and recognizing
and responding to the moral and ethical issues presented, it is time to
present alternative courses of action to the client. "Alternative
Courses of Action" is the sixth judging standard. Here, the judges
will determine how effectively the team, "[c]onsistent with the analy-
sis of the client's problem, developed a set of potentially effective and
feasible alternatives, both legal and non-legal. '49 The student attor-
neys must consider their particular client. They should look at the
client as a human being and ask themselves, "What options are ap-
propriate for this person? What are the possible outcomes and conse-
quences of each option?" Common sense is an indispensible resource
in this process. Some possibilities for the legal solutions are the fol-

45. See Videotape No. 197, 3/28/81, Finals, Round II, Boston (skillful explanation
of the law).
46. A good question to accomplish this sort of consideration is "What would the
opposing side say was the reason this situation occurred?"
47. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 11.
48. See Videotape No. 160, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III, Washington (dealing with
ethical problems).
49. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 11.
1456 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

lowing: talk with the involved persons, negotiate, settle, or litigate.

In the non-legal areas, the emotional, social, and financial aspects
must also be pointed out. Referrals may need to be made to assist
the client in obtaining shelter, food, therapy, or some other type of
non-legal assistance. It is helpful to be aware of the available social
agencies in the community.50
Probabilities and risks of all alternatives should be considered.
The options presented should be practical and realistic. The team
must be careful to not give false hopes or promises which it cannot
fulfill.
At this point, the student attorneys will have assisted the client
in understanding the problem and will have helped the client iden-
tify and evaluate alternative courses of action. Now it is time for the
client to choose a course of action. The judging standard in this area
is entitled, "Client's Informed Choice," and the team is judged on
how well it "[a]s appropriate, assisted the client in his/her under-
standing of problems and solutions and in making an informed
choice, taking potential legal, economic, social, and psychological con-
sequences into account." 51 Respect must be given to the client's feel-
ings, opinions, and choices. The client ultimately must choose what
he or she feels is best under the circumstances. The student attor-
neys' role is to present a range of options and point out consequences,
but the client must be free to decide what will work out best, pro-
52
vided it is within the acceptable limits of representation.
When the client chooses an alternative, the student attorneys
should determine how it will be accomplished. Will more informa-
tion be needed, such as copies of documents? Will persons need to be
contacted on the client's behalf? Will further legal research need to
be done?5 3 If the student attorneys have told the client earlier that
they would give the client an estimate of fees, they should be sure to
do so now. At this point, a firm determination of what both the cli-
ent and the student attorneys will do is essential. Once the student
attorneys have determined specific tasks for which each will be re-
sponsible, it is time to begin the "wrap-up" of the interview.

50. See Videotape No. 228, 3/26/82, Finals, Round II, Wyoming (legal alternatives
presented well); No. 159, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III, Wyoming (non-legal alternatives
presented well).
51. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 11.
52. See Videotape No. 159, 4/1/79, Nationals, Round III, Wyoming (presentation to
client to develop an informed choice: "What do you think would be a fair statement?";
"We're curious as to what your feelings are about going into court and testifying.").
53. Id (explanation of requiring further research: "We need to look into this fur-
ther. At this time, it would be hard for us to tell you exactly what the law says about
that."). Id.
1985] SUCCESSFUL INTERVIEWING. 1457

An "Effective Conclusion" is the eighth judging standard. Under

this standard, the team will be evaluated on how it "[c]oncluded the
interview skillfully, and left the client with a feeling of reasonable
confidence and understanding, with appropriate reassurance, and
with a clear sense of specific expectations and mutual obligations to
follow." ' 54 One technique that has worked extremely well in the au-
thor's experience is to ask a final open-ended question at this point,
such as, "Is there anything else you can think of that would be im-
portant for us to know?" 5 5 After dealing with whatever information
this elicits, the student attorneys should be sure specific plans and
expectations are understood. They should make the arrangements
for obtaining needed documents, obtain permission to contact others
involved in the situation, and arrange a specific follow-up appoint-
ment if appropriate. In the author's opinion, this approach works
much better than something indefinite, such as "We'll be in touch,"
or "Let's get together next week." This final "once-over" of the
plans serves to reassure the client and make sure that everything is
clearly understood. As a result, the client's confidence in the student
attorneys will be boosted. In closing, the student attorneys can give
the client their business card and tell the client how they may be
reached in case of an after-hours emergency. A practical method for
the student attorneys in the competition is to write their names on a
business card or piece of stiff paper the size of a business card. Fi-
nally, the student attorneys should escort the client out of the office,
shake hands, and reassure the client that "We will do our best for
you."p

POST-INTERVIEW REFLECTION

In the Client Counseling Competition, a post-interview consulta-

tion between the student attorneys occurs next. Throughout the in-
terview and during the post-interview consultation, the student
attorneys are judged on [Teamwork:] "as collaborating counselors
[how they] worked together as a team, with flexibility and an appro-
priate balance of participation. '5 6 There should be a smooth flow be-
tween teammates, a balance of participation, and flexibility. It is best
to avoid stereotypical roles. For example, if student attorneys are a
male-female team and the female takes all the notes while the male
explains the law, it may be looked upon unfavorably by the judges. It

54. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 11.

55. See Videotape No. 228, 3/26/82, Finals, Round II, Wyoming (alternative
method for wording wrap-up of interview: "Is there anything else you're concerned
about today?").
56. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 12.
1458 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

is more effective for both team members to carry a note pad and
share in responsibilities.5 7 If one student has been less active during
the actual interview, the time to try to make up for that is in the
post-interview consultation. The "Post-Interview Reflection" stan-
dard provides: "During the follow-up phase gave evidence of having
recognized their own and the client's feelings; the strengths and limi-
tations of their interviewing and counseling skills; their handling of
the substantive aspects of the client's problems, both legal and non-
legal, and provided for an effective follow-up." 8 One effective ap-
proach is to have a brief discussion of the facts and issues, identify
information still needed, divide the work to be done, set up an attor-
ney-attorney follow-up appointment, and dictate a memorandum. It
may not be necessary to dictate a memorandum at the intramural
level of competition, but it is impressive to judges at that level. It is
generally expected at Regional and National Levels. A recording de-
vice may ordinarily be taken to the interview for this purpose. 59
Punctuation and paragraphs may be said, just as in an actual dicta-
tion to a secretary.6 0 Some students have also received favorable
comments from judges when they dictated a letter on the client's be-
half at this time.
The student attorneys should not be afraid to comment on infor-
mation that they realize they should have obtained and did not or if
they think they should have handled a situation in a different man-
ner. The post-interview reflection is the time to point such matters
out.61 Most judges will generally give the team credit for it.
If a team has followed the suggestions in this article, it should
fare well in the competition. The final judging standard is the "Over-
all Rating." The judges will determine which of the following catego-
ries the interview was viewed as: "Highly Ineffective, Ineffective,
Somewhat Ineffective, Somewhat Effective, Effective, Highly Effec-
tive."62 The judges will determine the winning team and call all of
the teams in for a critique. This critique is an important aspect of the
learning process. Close attention should be paid to what is said.
Team members should learn as much as they can. Those teams that
advance in the competition will, of course, have an opportunity to put
the suggestions into effect shortly thereafter. But it is important for

57. See Videotape No. 228, 3/26/82, Finals, Round II, Wyoming (effective distribu-
tion of tasks between male and female teammates).
58. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 12.
59. See note 29 and accompanying text supra.
60. See Videotape No. 227, 3/26/82, Finals, Round II, McGeorge (how to dictate).
61. Id. (an appropriate way to point out information that the student lawyer
failed to obtain during the interview).
62. 1985 Client Counseling Rules at 12.
1985] SUCCESSFUL INTER VIEWING 1459

the teams to evaluate critically the quality of the suggestions; a team

should adopt them only after they are convinced that the suggestions
are indeed good ones.
The Appendix contains a sample format to help arrange notetak-
ing during the interview. This sheet is merely a guide, and a team
should adapt it to its own particular needs. It serves as a memory re-
fresher during the interview and works particularly well when it is
time to dictate a memorandum because it organizes all the informa-
tion obtained during the interview.

CONCLUSION

The Client Counseling Competition is an excellent educational

tool. Students are urged to take advantage of this opportunity to ex-
pand their learning of a practical, important skill that will be needed
in law practice: communicating with clients. The Competition pro-
vides a unique chance to practice those skills that will be used every-
day in practice and to receive valuable feedback on those efforts. The
suggestions made in this article hopefully will enrich this learning
experience.

Debra L. Zorn-'86
1460 CREIGHTON LAW REVIEW [Vol. 18

Appendix
INITIAL DATA LEGAL/NON-
LEGAL ANALYSIS
Name Explain law:
Address
Phone
2nd place of contact

Marital Status
Spouse's name
Seen another attorney?

How chose our firm?

Atty-Client Relationship:
Confidentiality Alternatives:
Why both Attys. Present __ Legal: Non-Legal:
Fees Talk Social
Estimate fees after interview Negotiate Economic
No interruptions Settle Psychological
Litigate
Tell us what brought you here Outcomes/Consequence
today. No false guarantees.

PROBLEM CONCLUSION/WRAP-UP
Tell us more or Chronological Documents needed.
Overview? What we'll do.
How would you like this to Estimate of fees.
come out? Next appointment
Give business card.
Other persons involved? Post-Interview
Specific Details: Dictate memo:
Facts:
Issues:
Problems:
Info still needed:
Moral/Ethical Issues:
Division of Work
Next appointment.