The Science of Numbers

The Evolution of Numbers

as they relate to
Card Interpretation

By Robert Lee Camp

THE SCIENCE OF

NUMBERS
The Evolution of Numbers
as they relate to
Card Interpretation

Robert Lee Camp

Grand Master, O.O.M.

Published by Seven Thunders Publishing May 2000

Copyright 2000 by Robert Camp
All rights reserved.

TABLE OF CONTENTS
Topic

Page

Zero

Ace

Two

Three

10

Four

13

Five

15

Six

18

Seven

24

Eight

27

Nine

31

Ten

36

Jack

47

Queen

54

King

61

Introduction
Hi! This is Robert Camp. The information you are about to read comes from a teacher
training that we did for about eight people in Michigan on May 15th, 1994.
What you will read, will be the live recording of that meeting, discussing the numbers,
starting with Zero and working up through to the King.
The purpose of this book is to help you get a deeper understanding of the essential quality
of the numbers. If we can understand that interpretations of the Cards, Numerology and
Astrology is all about One, Two, Three, Four, Five, and the rest of the numbers in the
deck, we can begin to really understand ourselves and be able to increase our ability to do
good readings.
All of the true metaphysical sciences can be reduced to this basic code that can be
counted on our fingers. When we have learned this code, we can apply it to any of them
with success. I have endeavored to make this code known and understood. However, the
true understanding of this information will only come to those who compare what they
have learned with the real experiences on their life. Remember that wisdom comes only
from experience. Learn your cards and numbers and then make your experiences teach
you their meanings. This is what I have done and also what anyone has done who has
developed the real understanding of these sciences.
This tape comes in at the beginning of the discussion on number One. I had just
completed talking about the number Zero when we started the tape so I have filled in the
number Zero afterwards.
I hope that you enjoy this book and are able to increase the depth of your understanding
by reading it.

Robert Camp

Robert: We begin with the number Zero because it is actually the first number in the
deck. Zero means 'all things' and it also means 'nothing'.
In the Tarot deck, we have the Fool Card. The Fool Card is the Zero card. They call the
Zero card the card of God.
Consider the Joker. The Joker is the Zero value card in the deck of cards. Why is he
nothing? And yet everything? The Joker can become any card in the suit that he chooses
to. He can put on any face.
Look at Anthony Hopkins and Ben Kingsley, and Val Kilmer the famous actors. They
are all Joker cards, born on December 31st. These people are incredible actors. They can
play a role so well. They can be any card in the deck they need to be for whatever
situation presents itself. Likewise, they have no value of their own. If you look at a
Joker person, he is nobody himself. He is no one but the role that he or she is playing.
Zero represents the unmanifested potential of the universe. Zero is nothing because it has
no value, yet it is out of Zero that everything comes. So a Zero has the potential to
become anything. That's why Zero is 'nothing' and yet 'everything'. The Zero is the
unmanifested universe, the field of infinite possibilities from which all things are born or
created.
A Zero is like a huge pot of alphabet soup. There are all the letters of the alphabet in it,
many vegetables, and so forth. So, everything is there, but we haven't made out choice
yet. When you or I use our minds and decide "I want that or I want those", then we
create. It is our specification that is the creator of everything in our personal universe.
The unmanifested universe, as represented by the Zero, is what makes it all possible.
Without that space of unlimited potential, that fertile field in which we can plant the
seeds of our thoughts, nothing would ever be created. This, then is the significance of the
Joker and the Zero.
Before creation takes place, everything is in stasis, everything is calm. The Zero
represents this vast universe of possibilities, of which nothing yet has been selected or
chosen. It is the first of the even numbers and like all even numbers, seeks balance.

Then along comes the number One - The word of God - the specification.
Out of that vastness is created something. So the number One is like 'our mind' OK? So
keeping this in mind, the Zero and the One, we will begin the tape. Listen very carefully
and you will hear and learn a lot about the cards in this next two to three hours.
One is the power to specify and so are the Three, Five, Seven, and Nine. These all are
odd numbers that have One constituency to them. The understanding of those numbers is
a little difference when you get past the Five.
Student: Do you think the odd numbers have a little stronger means of manifesting?
Robert: The even number person will manifest by drawing it to them. You know what I
mean?
Student: The odds have to specify, where the evens can sort of sit back and say 'here I
am'?
Robert: Yes! It just comes to the evens, it just shows up to them it is received.
Student: So odd numbers must specify.
The Aces:
Robert: Well, the odds are the specifiers. That's what it is. One is the power of
manifestation. Now, you will see that every time you go from one number to the next we
have added One to it. That One is the masculine energy that says, 'I must go and do
something new'. It adds the Ace to it.
Ace people are like that. Ace people are never at rest for very long. God has always got
a little itch in them to do something new. That is also how Threes, Fives, and Sevens are.
Student: Aren't Queens actually Threes? Because they are the number Twelve, and One
+ Two = Three.
Robert: Yes, Queens are Threes. The Twelve reduces to Three. The Jacks are Twos.
Eleven reduces to Two. (One + One = Two.) It's a little different up in those numbers
(the Court cards), but basically a Jack = Two, Queen = Three, and the King = Four.
So a Zero is everything in stasis - unmanifested. One comes up and says 'aha! I want
that.' Where does that come from?
Student: Where does that desire come from?
Robert: Well I think it comes from God. That desire to create something new. That
idea, that new energy. I think it comes from a higher source through us. We are the
channels.

The One and Three and so forth are the ones that are doing all this you see. What
happens with One is they get impatient. Every time an Ace of Diamonds calls me and
they want the software program - they usually want it right now! They want it yesterday!
Student: (Laughter) Yeah Who cares about the extra $20 to send it federal express.
Robert: Exactly! No problem. They will pay for it. They want it right away with no
delays!
Aces can also fall prey to starting more things than they can finish. The Threes and Fives
can be the same way.
If you want someone who is a really good worker, you want to pick and even numbered
person. A Four, Eight, even a Two, and sometimes a Ten, but not always. Someone who
will finish what they start. You can give an even number instruction. You can give them
the One impetus by telling them what you would like done. They will just keep working
until it is complete.
An odd number person, on the other hand, can be working on a project and get side
tracked by a new idea. The next thing you know they are going off to work on the new
idea, the first project has gotten boring, and they now have a new thing they want to do.
Ace people can be loners. They feel alone even when around others. Aces are always
individuals, they see themselves like a number One, as a singular person. Even though
Aces function well by themselves, and can be very private, Aces will usually be found in
groups because most of the One's (Aces) have Twos associated with them.
The Ace of Diamonds has a Two of Diamonds as a Karma Card. The Ace of Spades has
a Two of Clubs as a Karma Card. The Ace of Clubs has a Two of Hearts as a Karma
Card. So three out of four of the Aces have a Two as a Karma Card.
Aces are not often alone, but they can be alone. The only Ace that does not have a Two
as a Karma Card is the Ace of Hearts, which has an Ace and a Three instead.
Twos, of course, represent a union of Two people. A pair.
Ones desire for energy will never be satiated by the Zero, which it just left. It will be
satiated by the Two, however.
Student: What does the word satiated mean?
Robert: It means satisfied, sated.
Ones will seek another with whom to bind and then there is balance again. Take a desire
and then find a complement for it and you have Two. You now have balance again.

The Twos:
Two is a number that is in balance. It is a positive and negative combined. Our whole
world is built upon the number Two. Everything is black or white, positive or negative,
good or bad.
According to the ancients, however, there is no positive or negative, good or bad,
everything is relative.
You say something is hot or cold, right?
Well have you ever done the experiment where you put one hand in hot water and one in
ice water? After a while you put them both in lukewarm water and what have you got?
The hand that was in the ice water now feels hot, and the one from the hot water now
feels cooled off. So what is true, is it hot or cold? It is neither, it is relative. A scale of
temperature never ends. Infinite in both directions. How cold can we go, how hot?
Infinity. We have no idea.
The Rosecrucians published a scale of vibrations, beginning with gross mass matter,
rocks and minerals vibrating at a certain frequency, to the opposite end of the spectrum,
electro-magnetic fields, radio waves, television, x-rays, colors, ultra-violet, infrared rays,
and beyond to cosmic vibrations. This group has it all mapped out showing everything is
simply a vibration and it is all just relative.
Two people, because they are Twos have an innate understanding of the polarities, both
positive and negative. That is why a lot of Twos are good with computers. Computers
are all based on Twos.
If you have ever done any computer programming, you know, all you are doing is turning
little switches off and on. That is what makes everything happen in the computer. When
you look at a computer screen and you see marvelous things at work, what you may not
know is that the whole thing is nothing but Zero and One, flying at you. It is called
binary notation. Everything is built on binary. Two to a certain power.
'Two' people are often Ace people, because of their Two Karma Cards, like computers
and are good with them. Two have quick, logical minds, even the Two of Hearts. They
have the Two energy about them. Twos will be typically very social. They would rather
be with anybody than be alone. An Ace will be OK alone, they see themselves that way.
Remember, what your card number is, is what you identify with. That is who you think
you are.
A Jack thinks he/she is a kid. A Queen thinks 'I am mother'. An Eight thinks 'I am
power'. That is an identity. Identity always has a good and bad side.
The Two identity on the good side is social, nice, they love harmony, they want you
close, they want that cooperation. It is like a Libra thing.

The Two identity on the down side, shows up as the feelings of not being whole without
another, sometimes leading to co-dependent behavior. 'If I am not with someone who am
I? Without a partner I have no meaning to my life. If my relationship is bad them I am
bad.'
Twos can also be argumentative. When Twos get upset they use their logic on you like a
weapon, picking you apart, reminding you of your shortcomings.
Especially the Two of Diamonds and Two of Clubs. The King of Hearts can do that also,
since they have the Two of Clubs Karma Card. You can see how the Two energy
operates. When you have a Two in your reading, it is about you coming together with
somebody else. All of a sudden you identify, even though you may not be a Two Birth
Card.
When a Two comes up in either a weekly or yearly reading you will experience that
yearning to be closer to another person. This may tend to attract someone to you.
However, not every Ace or every Two is fulfilled in this area. For example, an Ace of
Two of Hearts in Saturn. Normally this placement does not bring a relationship but
rather a longing or wanting that does not get fulfilled.
Student: I am a Two of Diamonds!
Robert: The Two of Diamonds wants someone that has a similar value system to connect
with on a financial level. To feel that flow of money between you.
Student: If that Two of Diamonds is in Saturn, does that mean it probably will not
happen?
Robert: Yes, or it may mean it will be a very challenging partnership. Any Two under
Saturn will be difficult and challenging. Or it may be that a relationship does not
manifest or is blocked for some reason.
Twos are called the Fear cards by Florence Campbell. Fear of being alone, Fear of not
having someone there.
Two of Clubs especially. Their Karma Card is the Ace of Spades, the death card. These
people can be afraid of death and it can run their life.
Two of Clubs I have seen itits amazing! I have a good friend who is a Two of
Clubs, he was born on the same day and year as Mick Jagger. When my friend's wife left
him he crawled up into a ball in bed and did not get out for about three months. They had
to take him to the hospital he was so freaked out, yet he is normally very outgoing.
Two is usually very outgoing. Twos want you to be with them so they are going to be
very friendly. Once they have you however, they will probably want to argue. They
need someone to be there or they don't feel complete.

The fear for the Two of Clubs runs very deep because that Ace of Spades is a card of
secrets and hidden things. Two of Clubs can't put their finger on it but it drives them
crazy. Externally they may look completely fearless. They will try to fool you. Only
they know the private hell they go through. If however the Two of Clubs chooses to face
the Ace they can become enlightened and discover all the secrets to the universe. They
have to be willing to look at the fear.
Two is so logical - mental. They will tend to avoid their feelings, where all their answers
lie.
The Two of Clubs may say 'I don't want to deal with that. I can't make sense of that. It
scares me. I don't understand. I am weak there. I am not powerful like I am in my mind.
In my mind I am the master chemist. I am an attorney. I am a genius at work. My
personal life is not working but then I do not need a relationship anyway.'
Student: Right Diane? (Audience laughter)
Diane: I need a relationship. I am just afraid to go and get one.
Robert: Now you are talking!
Student: Is it also true for the King of Clubs with the underlying Two of Clubs?
Robert: Yes.
The King of Clubs Moon Card is the Two of Clubs. They need someone to talk with to
feel safe. My wife Katherine is a King of Clubs. I remember when she was not feeling
good she would get on the phone with one of her friends and talk for an hour and then she
would feel better. I was always happy to see her talking to somebody because I knew
that was what she needed.
Student: Then she was not going to turn to you? (laughter)
Robert: Well, I did not always want to talk to her. I did not have the same need to speak
with her as she did me. She had a lot of Two of Clubs people around her that loved to
talk. It was perfect.
Moon Card people will make you feel safe, protected, and nurtured. If you feel unsafe,
go to your Moon Card.
A Two says, I have found my perfect mate, my complement, my other half feels whole
now.
Aces can feel whole by themselves.
Twos don't feel whole unless they have somebody else.

Now the Two is satisfied because they have their complement and you add that Ace to it.
Here comes that crazy, masculine energy when the Ace comes into picture and things get
all upset again. Now the Two is not enough.
Student: The male thing again?
Robert: Yes, the male thing.
The Threes:
Every time that One comes in, it upsets the balance. Two was perfect before. Now Two
is not enough. For a Three person there is never enough. The Three says, 'I have one,
but I want another one, a different one.' 'I have some new ideas.' This is how a Three
person is. There is always something new, better, a different flavor, a different color.
They are very easily bored.
Robert: I am a Queen of Diamonds. As I said earlier, since Queens add up to Three,
(Queen = 12 = 1 + 2 = 3) they have a lot of Three energy. They too, can get easily bored.
Between the Queen of Diamonds and the Queen of Clubs, they have all of the Threes in
their life paths.
Student: Do Threes usually have trouble staying with a partner in relationships?
Robert: Yes, they get bored.
Student: Jack of Hearts men, are either devoted fathers or the biggest run around.
Robert: Yes, they can be playboys. The Hears cards can get into that, especially the
power cards. Getting back to Threes
Student: Would Threes flirt a lot then?
Robert: Yes, Threes are flirtatious and great talkers. The Three, like the One, is a
number of expression.
The Ace person is seeking identity. 'Who am I? I will be this for a while, then I will
create that.' The Ace is in search for itself.
Threes are similar but they want to express new things all the time. To check things out.
'Look at the new ideas I came up with. Look at the variety of things that I can create and
produce.'
Threes want to be acknowledged for their ideas.
Threes are restless, creative, flexible, adaptable, resourceful, and innovative.

10

Threes have their purpose, they are great for what they do. Like rubber bands they are
flexible, they bend. You could not use a paper clip for the same thing that you use a
rubber band for like stretching around a stack of envelopes. However rubber bands have
their limitations too. For instance, because of that flexibility, building a house with them
would be impossible.
The Three of Clubs is a writers card.
The Three of Diamonds is financial creativity.
The Three of Spades is the artist card. Action through doing, creating with the hands,
expressing artistically with the physical body.
The Three of Hearts is creative expression and exploration with relationships.
Three - the high side - Creativity! When Threes come up in our readings we have an
opportunity to gain new ideas, be creative. Even those people who are not normally idea
people can get a lot of creativity energy from a Three. It is not by accident when a Three
shows up. It means there is a need for new ideas in your life. If we are not aware of
ourselves, we can turn the Three energy into indecision and worry, instead of generating
ideas and creativity.
In a Three energy you are not settled, therefore you cannot attract money and wealth as
easily. You can, however, get a good idea that you can use successfully later.
Under a Three influence, you may be in a situation that is stagnating. Perhaps you are
working hard but it is not getting you anywhere, not giving you what you want.
Of a Three turns up and you are getting ideas but you are afraid because you are not
making any money or having any success. It is because you are in a Three time period
and you are not meant to settle on one thing. You are meant to explore new ideas and
experiment. Threes like Fives are numbers for gaining experience.
Three of Hearts - Long Range Card might be: Dating several different people just to see
what is out there, what feels good or right, to be expressive. Later, to settle down.
Three of Clubs - Long Range Card might be: Trying new ideas, new ways of thinking.
Maybe writing, expressing yourself, experimenting with new ways of connecting with
others on the verbal and written level.
Three of Spades - Long Range Card might be: Trying different lifestyles, new and
different jobs, expressing yourself artistically.
Three of Diamonds - Long Range Card might be: Working two jobs or coming up with
new ideas to make money.
See how it works? This is what Threes are about.

11

Three by nature of the number is deprived of security.

Student: Does this give them low self esteem?
Robert: I know a woman who is a Three of Clubs. She is very successful yet she worries
a lot and is very indecisive. She has just produced a movie that will make about a million
dollars but she is worrying about the money all the time.
Student: My sister is a Three of Spades and she has it in her head that she is going to get
cancer.
Robert: It could happen because the Three of Spades can create it.
Student: I know two different Three of Spades and they are so different. One is a
Gemini and one is a Pisces, so I know that must have something to do with it. One is
really insecure, like you said, afraid, but basically cares about people. The other Three of
Spades person, the Gemini, is as close to evil as I have ever met.
Robert: That is because any card can be either good or bad. It depends on the person.
Every card can be manifested in a positive or negative way.
Student: The one that is doing a lot of things to hurt people, being really callous and
dictatorial, is my sister.
Robert: I want to say something about that. I know there are a lot of people like that in
the world. But believe me, there are usually willing participants. So it is not good to
judge anybody.
Student: I am trying to figure out a positive way to deal with what is happening, which is
very negative.
Robert: Both people, on some level are making a choice to do that. They are coparticipating in a big fantasy, some love/hate thing, or co-dependent scenario. You don't
have to participate though, you are free of it. You can get upset about a lot of things in
this world. We could spend our whole life upset.
Student: This is a person who has taken a position of power within the church and is not
following the principles the way some people see it.
Robert: Nobody is forcing you to be in that church.
Student: Do you mean that if it gets uncomfortable, I can just leave?
Robert: Yes, you can always leave.

12

Student: My sister is always telling me how to run my life. I tell her those are her
feelings not mine.
Robert: You can either leave or try to change that. You can say I want that person out of
there, if you think that will work. You can try to exert your power. Remember we only
have a certain circle of influence and it does not extend so far that we can control other
people.
Student: No, I have no illusion about being able to get her out of there.
Robert: If you speak your truth about what you see, it might change but, in the process
you might have to confront your own fears.
Student: you said the message of the Threes is creativity and coming up with new ideas.
Could you give us a short list of messages and definitions for each of the numbers?
Robert: If you get the essence for each of the numbers, that will help you to write some
key definitions for yourself.
Student: For example, what is the essence of the number Two?
Robert: Balance.
Yes, that is true but I would say partnership. Balance through finding a complement. A
Two is looking for someone else to feel complete.
Student: Is this always a marriage partnership?
Robert: No the Two essence is about all kinds of partnerships.
A Three is about getting out there and exploring. When we get to the Four energy we
have stability again.
The Fours:
Four is one of the most stable numbers in the deck. It represents the square box, the Four
directions, which are part of our reality. Two is the basis but Four is an essential number
in our system.
There are Four seasons of the year, not Two seasons. Four elements - earth, air, water,
and fire. And so forth.
Four means security. Four will fight for security. They understand its value. Others will
feel secure in their presence, safer. For someone who has a lot of Three energy, a Four
can be a relief. 'I can finally rest', says the Three.

13

Four is peace and tranquility. It is not the final resting place though, just a place along
the way where there is stability.
At some point in your life if you decide you want to have some security - what do you
usually do? You buy a house. A house is a Four. It is Four-sided. It is built out of little
blocks or pieces of wood that are Four-sided. Everything about a house is Four-sided.
When you are seeking security in when you aim for the Four.
Four gives you a foundation on which you can stand and then do other things and feel
safe. It is a basic human need to feel safe. Some people however, do not acknowledge
that in themselves. The Threes and Fives have a hard time acknowledging their need for
stability and security.
Fours can be very controlling, much like the Eights.
Four knows the value of security and stability and will fight to maintain it. So you might
see Fours as 'controllers'. They may want to push their philosophy on you. Form the
Four's perspective, if it works for them then it should work for you. From another card's
point of view however, the Four will seem to be very stubborn because they are very
fixed.
Four is as solid as a rock. Four people can have square frames. They look solid, sturdy
and well-rounded.
Student: I have a daughter who is a Four of Spades and she looks just like a little
refrigerator.
Robert: Four of Spades people will look really solid, like a football player with the wide
shoulders and the nice, round beautiful face.
Student: My grandson is tall and thin now but I guess he is liable to change since he is a
Four of Clubs.
Robert: There is a very stable feeling you get from being around the Fours.
The Four of Hearts wants emotional security. That is the family card and they want to
have a family or be a unit at all times. They will maintain the family. You'll feel very
loved and protected. I have several Four of Hearts friends.
The Four of Clubs is mentally strong and solid. They will study something, learn it really
well and then they know it. They will be good at it. They will take time to learn. Their
Karma Card is the Five of Clubs. SO they will have a progressive mind and always be
looking for new things to learn and think about. Of all the Fours, they have the most
progressive ideas.

14

The Four of Diamonds have very sound values. They know what they want and what
they don't want. They tend to attract money. Roseanne Arnold and Glenn Close are both
Four of Diamonds.
A lot of famous people are the Four of Diamonds. Inside they are very restless because
of the Five of Spades Karma Card. They never get enough travel until they get older and
they finally get the freedom to explore. The Four of Clubs, with its Five of Clubs Karma
Card is also restless but that is more of a mental restlessness.
The Four of Diamonds have tough marriage karma because they have the Queen of
Hearts in Saturn in their Life Spread. Marriage and relationship-wise, there are always
big challenges for them.
The Four of Spades, of course, is the most solid. These people really hold things
together. The Spade cards have a little seed of all of the other Three suits inside
themHearts, Diamonds, and Clubs. But the Spade card is the most solid.
Once you've achieved the security of the Four and you've got a house and other things to
feel warm and safe and dry, along comes that One energy (the Five) and you start to feel
restless again. Now the security of the home is not enough. You want to experience
more.
The Fives:
The Five energy is like this: I saw Jerry Seinfeld on TV the other night and he was
talking about men and what they do with the remote control. He said. 'With men, it's not
about what's on TV, it's about what else is on TV!' It's not about what I have that counts,
it's about what else can I have! What else can I see! This is also like a Three.
Student: It's not all men who channel surf, just the men who are the Three and the Five?
Robert: It's most of the males because they are the ones who have that masculine energy.
That's what propels them.
Student: I hate that!
Robert: That's because you're a female. But you might do the same thing if you got the
remote.
Student: No. I want to know what I'm watching first before I click it off. And both of
my Five of Clubs kids, male and female, keep changing the station.
Robert: Oh. You have two Five of Clubs children! That could drive anyone crazy!
(Laughter)

15

Robert: You have to understand that it's a male quality to just want the next thing and
the next thingand then some.
Fives represent the prodigal son, in a sense. The one who left the security of the home to
seek something more.
Student: That really does fit.
Robert: Just like a Three never wants to return to the Two. A Three is never totally
happy going back to the pair.
Student: So the Five wants to go back to the Four?
Robert: No! The Five will not be happy going back to the Four. To a Five, the security
of the Four feels like a prison. Think about it like this: Suppose you're a Three and
you're afraid. Think about evolution. With the Threes is can be scary because you have
so many ideas it can be overwhelming. You find the security of home, which is the Four.
You move in and start to feel safe and cozy. Then, you feel better and get healed. Now
you're ready to go out of the house. That's what the Five experiences. Because they have
left the energy of the Four, they are no longer interested in security. So a Five has a
conflict because a Five, like a Three, is never quite satisfied. So they wander from one
thing to the next and do a lot of changing around.
Student: How does your Sun sign influence that? Would an Earth sign with a Five Birth
Card offset some of that instability?
Robert: Not really. I have a Taurus friend who is a Five of Diamonds and he's the worst.
Student: I know a Leo Five of Clubs who is all over the map. This explains why he was
never interested in having security.
Robert: Sure. Leo people will dramatize whatever card they are. What you get is a
super Five of Clubs.
Robert: A Five of Clubs is the worst card in terms of being that way because they have a
Five of Hearts Karma Card. It's double Fives and that's tough!
The high side of the Fives is that this is the card of the true adventurer. This is the type of
person who gets a broad view of the world by experience. Five is a card that deals with
gathering experience.
Florence Campbell says in her book, Sacred Symbols of the Ancients, that the "Five is a
cross. Life experience is of necessity, a cross."
The word, experiences, that's a Five.

16

Florence Campbell goes on to say, "Changes and surprises we regard with disfavor since
it is but human to fear the unknown. We may regard Fives solely in this light, if we
choose to, but the wise ones recognize change as growth. The release from the well-worn
rut, as an opportunity."
Fives are interested in growth and opportunities. We tend to be afraid of the new and
unfamiliar at the same time. Whatever our point of view is, the Five people are restless.
And usually dissatisfied. Dissatisfaction in a Five thing.
Student: It is like having an itch?
Robert: Yes. The Ace is like that, too. So is the Three. The One, Three, and Five are all
dissatisfied on some level because there is always something new coming. You get it?
They want to change because they do not want what they have. But as soon as the
change is made they are still fearful of what lies ahead and they want the change to
change. There is always the change that more freedom lies up ahead and freedom is a
Five's battle cry. Freedom and 'Don't fence me in!'
Student who is a Five of Spades: When I said that I like the security of my home it is
because it is my home. I created it and that's my sanctuary. I really appreciate being by
myself in my own home.
Robert: Yes. That's because no one else has chained you to this home and that has to do
with having your freedom. Especially, being an Aquarian on top of that. A Five of
Spades Aquarian will have a hard time releasing that type of freedom.
A Five comes along and all of a sudden we think that what we had is not enough. You
have to look at it as an evolutionary process. We worked to get to that type of security
and we go through the stages of stability and then we need change. When you meet
somebody and you are ready to make a big change but they've just bought a new home
and they are going through their security stage, you may feel a big disconnection with
them because they are going through an entirely different cycle than you are. This is
because you have already done that before. You're reaching out for the next stage of
growth. They just reached that stage that you passed through five years ago. There is no
right or wrong with either. What is wrong is trying to go back and be like them or them
trying to move forward to catch up to you.
That's what happens sometimes in relationships. Since we're so afraid to be alone, we'll
pick somebody who is totally out of sync with where we are. And leap into this
relationship only to split up later because it just won't work. It's going against the grain.
You need to find somebody who is basically on the same wavelength that you are.
A Five is a time of dissatisfaction. It means letting go of the old to make way for the new
and that always precedes a change.

17

The Five of Hearts - A change of heart.

The Five of Clubs - A change of mind or plans.
The Five of Diamonds - A change of values.
The Five of Spades - A change of lifestyle.
It can even be as simple as taking a trip or vacation. A trip brings in a new experience. It
creates fresh energy and a new outlook. You go on vacation and you return with a new
perspective. You have a new way of looking at your life. Your life hasn't changed but
you feel different. So travel can satisfy that urge for change which is why all the Fives
can correspond to a move, travel, or trips.
That's why Bonnie, an Ace of Diamonds, likes to go to foreign countries. She has a Five
of Hearts in Venus in her Life Spread. She loves that travel and the new people she
meets because of that Five of Hearts in Venus.
We've been talking about Fives, so let's recap. The Fives are going to make you restless.
Fives mean you're stepping into a new stage of your evolution. You are ready to move
out of stability and broaden your horizons. The high side of a Five means an outgoing
influence in your life that brings new things or new people or new situations. Advertising
can have a Five influence because it involves spreading the word about what you're
doing. It can also indicate socializing and meeting new people. Traveling, having new
experiences, gathering new information, wisdom, and so forth. That is part of the
evolution. Five is the last number in terms of the inner numbers. You only have Five
fingers, right? There's only Five visible planets. When you go beyond Five you are
stepping off the physical realm into the spiritual realm. Every number beyond the Five is
a spiritual number.
The Sixes:
When we get to the Six we're talking about higher octave stuff. It still follows the basic
rules that the Six is in balance or stasis or harmony. And the Seven and Nine are out of
balance. But the meanings start to depart from the usual stuff. It's not this One, Two,
Three, stuff. It becomes a little more complicated when you get to the number Six. Six
represents two Threes. Symbolically, a Six represents two triangles interlocked and in
balance. The upper triangle and the downward triangle. That's the Six. It represents
balance. It's like Libra. It's funny how in Astrology that Libra is the Seventh sign. You
can't always translate the numbers across in every case. But there are some ways that you
can. If you think about the Libra sign, with the scales of justice, you notice that each side
of the scale has a Three chained thing on it which makes a Six. In any case you've got a
balance of energies. The balance is the upward triangle and the downward triangle which
means?
Student: The spiritual and the material.
Robert: Right. And male and female, positive and negative, high and low. The upper
triangle is male. The downward triangle is female. It's very simple. This is in balance

18

here. We're talking about a new kind of balance. It's a Six pointed thing, this balance.
All the different areas of life are brought into balance with the Six. The Six has a lot of
different meanings depending on the context of each person's life. It's going to tend to
bring everything that's out of balance back into balance. Six people tend to be like that.
The want to create peace. They see themselves as the peace makers. They see
themselves as the ones who need to create harmony. Everything around them should be
kept nice and soft. They would say, for example, 'Don't speak too loud.'
Student: Is that why the Six person will walk away when someone is tapping or making
noise?
Robert: Yes. And they tend not to like large, overly loud displays of emotion or action.
A Six person craves peace. By the same token, a Six person can get into a rut. 'Nothing
is happening, nothing is changing. My life has been the same for so long,' says the bored
Six person.
The same thing can easily happen to you when a Six shows up in your weekly or yearly
readings. You may find yourself in a rut and wishing to escape but you can't. A Six of
Spades would be extremely difficult to handle in that case. Especially, for any of the
Five Birth Cards because they go stir crazy when things don't change.
There are some times when you might prefer to have some stability and at that point, if a
Six comes along it could provide a welcome relief. The Six would provide some peace,
relaxation, and a soothing out or evenness to your affairs. You see, everything is relative.
Nothing is either 'good' or 'bad'. It just depends on where you are in your own evolution.
A Six represents things being brought into balance and for that reason it is called the
karmic number. A Six is a karmic payback, if there are any outstanding debts. One way,
or another, the karmic debts will come into balance and you will pay or be paid.
For example, Bill Clinton, a Seven of Clubs, had a Six of Spades this year during his
Mars period for his 47th year. He also had a Six of Clubs in his Saturn period. That's
why all this stuff has come back to haunt him that he has done in the past. That Six is
Spades in Mars is really strong. It was during his Mars period when the whole thing
started. It was the scandal with the state troopers who set him up with women. That's
also when Whitewater began. He had a Six of Spades vertical in Mars and he ad a Seven
of Hearts direct. That means that there was a pay back that was also a betrayal. The
Seven of Hearts is the betrayal card. The Mars period says that this was involving men.
These men were out to get him for what he had done to them - pay back. I've done a lot
of radio shows since the time that happened. I've said that, 'I know Clinton is guilty.'
How did I know he was guilty? Because a Six always guarantees that what is happening
is always just and fair. That's why when someone is involved in a legal matter and you
see a Six in their Mars position, you can tell them with assurance, that whatever happens

19

will be exactly what they deserve. That can be good, because if they know they are right,
that can turn things around in their favor.
Student: If the Six falls where?
Robert: In Mars, because the Mars period deals with legal matters.
Bill Clinton also had a Six of Clubs during his 47th year in Saturn. The Six of Clubs
means a pay back for something that was said or some kind of agreement that was made.
The Six of Clubs was the direct card in his Saturn period and there was a Ten of
Diamonds card underneath in the vertical position. That was when he paid back all the
money he owed in back taxes. It amounted to about $14,000.
Student: That's what happened when a Six of Clubs was in is Saturn period?
Robert: Yes. That was a Six of Clubs direct in Saturn with a Ten of Diamonds vertical.
He's still in trouble because there's more stuff coming up. This woman, Paula Jones, just
filed a suit against Clinton for sexual harassment.
When a Six comes up for people in a Saturn period, it is pay back. A big time pay back.
Clinton has Sixes next year, too. In his 48th year, under his Seven of Clubs Birth Card.
Student: Do you sense any entrapment in all this regarding President Clinton? Is the
Republican Party a part of this?
Robert: No. That's the excuse they use and that's what they tell the press. They want
everyone to believe that this is another attempt by the Republicans because we can't bear
them on the issues. They can't beat us on the issues so they try to down grade our image.
But that is what they say to keep from taking responsibility. But the fact is that Clinton
did these things.
All we want to know is the truth, Clinton. We don't really care about what happened.
We just want the truth. And haven't you noticed how his nose just keeps getting bigger
and bigger? Like Pinocchio. (Laughter)
Student: Sexual harassment is very real in the work place. Women put up with a lot of
crap!
Robert: Yes. It is very real. But when you see these high profile cases, you have to
question the motives and ask yourself what's really going on. You have to see who is
behind it. And these radical feminists are not interested in women's rights. They are only
interested into getting political power.
Student: Which is not necessarily going to be any better.

20

Robert: No. All they want to do is to push men around. They don't care about women's
rights, all they care about is political power. Like anybody else who is power hungry and
they are power mongers, these people.
Student: Can't they also do some good?
Robert: If it is happening, then it is good for something. Because God wouldn't let it
happen if it wasn't going to accomplish some good. But we always must be discerning of
what the truth is. It's important not to be deluded by those in power. Because we are the
ones that put them there. We walk around thinking these people are heroes when we
don't know the whole story. It is so obvious if you look. Look and read and check into
the details. You can see through people. Look at their cards and you will know what's
going on.
Sixes also has another meaning that is very important. It can also mean a fated event.
Student: We talk about Karma and sometimes people are afraid but sometimes Karma
can bring positive rewards.
Robert: Sure. Karma can be good.
You may have made a contract before you came into this life to do a certain type of work
in this world. This isn't a subject that I'm an authority on but I know that this happens. A
Six represents a time period when you become aware of this purpose that you have. A lot
of people walk around this planet feeling like they have no purpose. And their lives are
miserable. When you have no purpose, you life can be miserable. The people who are
happy and successful are the ones who have adopted a purpose that is greater than their
ordinary day to day existence. All of us have relationship challenges, money challenges,
etc. The people that are really enjoying their life with energy, enthusiasm, and power are
the ones that choose something greater than those ordinary concerns to dedicate their
lives to. That's called a mission. A Six can show up and lead you to your purpose.
Robert speaking to a student: For example, you have a Six of Clubs environment card
this year. It means coming into an awareness of your purpose. In it the John the Baptist
card.
When you have evolved to being on more of a spiritual levellike everybody hereyou
can look at the Sixes a little differently. It's no longer about karmic pay back of getting
slapped in the face for something that you did. It's about coming into an awareness of
your life purpose.
Student: I thought the Six of Clubs card meant coming into knowledge?
Robert: Yes. It can be knowledge gained through intuition.

21

All the Sixes are psychic and so are all the number Six Birth Cards.
Student: And they don't even know it.
Robert: Some of them do and some of them don't. All the Sixes are psychicthe Hearts,
Clubs, Diamonds, and the Spades.
Student: So the Six of Diamonds in Saturn can mean money is being paid back to you?
Robert: No. Not when the Six falls in a Saturn period. Saturn will always represent a
debt that you owe to somebody else.
Student: I was asking because I have a Six of Diamonds coming up underneath my
Personality Card which is a Jack.
Robert: I wouldn't worry too much about a Six showing up in Saturn under your
Personality Card. That's because you don't play that role all the time. It's a minor part of
your life. It's there but it's not significant.
Student: I have a Six of Hearts in Jupiter.
Robert: That's a good pay back. I think that's going to bring something really good.
Student: I just wondered more about that Six falling under my Personality Card in
Saturn. I see that Jack as representing doing my artistic, creative work and working in
the business that I'd like to be in?
Robert: That Jack will only represent doing your creative work and artistic work. So
don't dwell on it too much.
When you have a Six in Jupiter, the pay back is going to be coming toward you and it
will be good. A Six in Jupiter also means that your financial success comes from sticking
with what you are already doing. Staying the same brings financial success when the Six
is in Jupiter.
Student: I also have a Four of Hearts with a Six of Diamonds in my Venus period. To
me that means that there will be finances earned through something that I love to do.
Robert: Yes. A Six can bring the turning of the hand of fate. Six people are here to
learn about responsibility. The law of karma says, 'Whatever I give, is what I get back.'
Six people have to endure karmic pay backs and some of those pay backs are not nice.
Some of those can be negative pay backs. Six of Diamonds people can make and lose
tremendous amounts of money at different points in their life. Six of Clubs care learning
how to be responsible for what they say and being responsible for their beliefs. Like if
they say, 'I 'm a Christian.' Then they are learning to be responsible and love like a
Christian. They are learning how to walk their talk. Six of Hearts are learning about

22

responsibility in their relationships. They are learning how to be responsible in love. A

Six person will either be super responsible or totally irresponsible. There usually is no in
between.
Student: My Dad was a Six person and he went to extremes. He was totally
irresponsible for awhile and then he became very responsible. It that common that the
Sixes go back and forth?
Robert: I don't know if they switch around or just stay that way their whole life.
Six of Diamonds people are really interesting because they are the ones that pay their
debts ahead of time. The ones that are super responsible pay their rent and electric bills
sometimes as much as three months in advance. Or they're irresponsible and you just
can't trust them at all. But usually, a Six of Diamonds is a person you can lend money to
and you know that it's going to come back. The Six of Diamonds will worry about it and
that debt will be like an obsession to them until they have paid it back to you.
Student: I've got a Six of Diamonds direct this year with a Nine of Clubs vertical in
Uranus?
Robert: I don't' think it's going to be a windfall. It may be some money going out,
perhaps. When you put a Six in Uranus, it's going to take on a more spiritual orientation.
It could be some type of spiritual experience.
Student: Why are Six people psychic?
Robert: Because if you have your life in stasis and balance then your mind is more calm
and open to receive. That's why the Sixes have that psychic ability. Because they do
make peace a priority in their life. And when they're in that space, yes, they're bored or
they can be boring but they start to pick up on stiff that the Three or Five person would
never get because they are so busy running around.
Student: I have a Six of Diamonds Long Range. What does that mean?
Robert: A Six of Diamonds Long Range could mean that you're going to come into a
way of making money that is spiritually oriented.
Student: What is the Six of Diamonds in Pluto?
Robert: Six of Diamonds in Pluto would mean having to deal with paying off debts or
having to deal with no change in a work situation that you want to change.
Student: What about when that Six of Diamonds Pluto is coupled with a Nine of Hearts
Result?

23

Robert: Probably wanting to leave your present job but not being able to, or having to
postpone it. But that will be over by the end of the year because the Result Card is the
Nine of Hearts. The Result Card is always what you end up with. The Nine of Hearts
result means that she ends up saying, 'bye, bye' to everybody. It just won't happen as
quick as you want it to. If you want a change and a Six comes up you'll be disappointed
because it will be just like butting your head up against a brick wall.
Student: Robert, you went through the Clubs, the Hearts and the Diamonds but you
didn't say anything about the Spades.
Robert: Spades people's lives are more fated. They don't have as much choice in life.
It's like their life is just programmed. I don't really understand the Six of Spades that
well, to be honest with you.
Student: My daughter is a Six of Spades and she struggled a lot with school. She was
dyslexic. She has an undiscovered vision problem.
Robert: The Six of Spades has a Nine of Spades as one of their Karma Cards which must
bring some problems into their lives. A lot of them are smokers.
Student: But my daughter, the Six of Spades, is such a trooper. She couldn't see the
printed page. She was farsighted. We would read to her and she thought that we were
just making the story up. I took her to get her eyes checked before she started school.
We had to patch her eye, put glasses on her and do all this stuff.
Robert: There could be health problems with the Six of Spades because of the Nine of
Spades Karma Card.
The Sevens:
Robert: We're go into the Sevens now. Seven is another odd number. It's not at rest, it's
not at peace. It's on edge. Something has changed. Every time an odd number comes
up, something has changed. There's something new and different. A Seven upsets the
balance of the Six. With the Seven, we will be confronted with a fear. It's kind of like a
Three in a way. The solution to a Seven is to have faith. Because Seven is a spiritual
number, dealing with the spiritual realms, you can't fix it by doing ordinary things. You
can't solve the problems associated with the Sevens in the normal ways. For example, the
solution for a Three person would be to settle down. Focus on one thing and you'll have
security. With a Seven energy, you just can't do that. Seven means that you have to have
faith. You have to know that you're going to be OK.
Student: It sounds like the Sevens are about moving away from logical thinking?

24

Robert: Yes. Seven is a spiritual blessing card. But if we are attached to material things
and we thing out security is attached to having material things, then we're going to be
very scared when a Seven comes up. It we're attached to a person, idea, a certain thing
like a car, money, a job or our health, then a Seven will challenge that. A Seven will
come up and say, 'I can take this away from you any time I want. Can you still feel safe?'
Student: Is that why the Seven of Diamonds card has such a fear about loss of money?
Robert: Yes. The Seven of Diamonds is wither the fear of not having enough money or
it's the millionaire's card. I know a lot of Seven of Diamond individuals who are very
wealthy because they just dont worry about money. And of course, money just follows
them around. Everywhere they go the money just follows.
Student: The Seven of Diamond woman that I know has got tons of money but she still
worries about it. How much is enough?
Robert: I know some like that but I also know some Seven of Diamonds people who let
go of the worry and are just as happy as a clam.
Student: It's live living that faith. But you have to live it. That's what they need to do.
Just let go, leave it alone and have the faith.
Robert: Exactly. That's the lifetime lesson of a Seven. The Seven of Clubs will have to
deal with fear around mental things. They come into this life with negative mental
patterns.
Student: Absolutely. My ex-husband was a Seven of Clubs. The one thing that I just
couldn't live with was the depression. He could never rise above it and he never will.
Robert: Yes. That's the negative mental pattern. They're very critical.
Student: Do all Sevens come in with negative mental patterns?
Robert: No. The negative mental patterns is the Seven of Clubs. They come in with
negative mental patterns already ingrained in the person before they get here. They don't
get it from their parents, or the environment. They are born that way. They can be sort
of worrisome. Worry warts. Robin Williams is a Seven of Clubs. Bill Clinton is a
Seven of Clubs. You dont' see it but look at the bugs under Bill Clinton's eyes. Only
people who know these people personally, know how much they worry. I did a reading
for Robin Williams' wife. I said, 'I don't know Robin Williams personally but does he go
back and forth from being really worried about everything?' She said, 'Definitely.'

25

On the high side, a Seven of Clubs is free. They have these experiences of being free.
That Seven freedomthey have it and feel it. Like Robin Williams, he's a channel. He
just channels stuff.
Student: He's amazing.
Robert: Yes. He's just amazing. I saw him just the other day and I told him what his
card was. I went to drop off my son with his mom, who was staying at Robin Williams'
house. He came out for a minute and I said, 'Do you know that youre a Seven of Clubs?
Did your wife tell you, because I gave her a reading?' He said, 'No'. And then he started
doing this impersonation of a Hindu guy doing a reading with the cards. He said, 'The
Ace of Spades is a very funny card to be.'
Student: (Laughter) Whoa, I'd love to see him doing that.
Robert: But where does he get it? He just started talking about the card and it all came
pouring out.
Student: Was he accurate in what he was saying?
Robert: Yes. And he didn't know anything about the cards but he picked up the Ace of
Spades immediately. That's the thing about the Seven of Clubs. They can be
enlightened. Then they turn around and they're worried like crazy. Or they can be
extremely critical and negative. Or a combination of both.
You are talking about a soul who is struggling with a Seven. They are struggling to be
free of fear but they come into this life with a pattern of fear. Seven of Hearts is afraid of
being betrayed and abandoned. We already spoke about the Seven of Clubs. The Seven
of Diamonds, we mentioned, is afraid of not having enough. A Seven of Spades deals
with health problems and accidents. The Seven of Spades is always worried about their
health. Their health is always a consideration. They have accidents. Like that Seven of
Spades woman on crutches that was in one of our classes. She's had all these accidents
and her body is in bad shape. The Seven of Spades often have physical accidents. So for
the Seven of Spades the issue is: Can I go about living my life in spite of the fact that my
body is all screwed up? Can I go ahead and live in the light, in spite of? And you will
understand this and be called upon to do this too, when a Seven comes up in one of your
own readings. Can you go ahead and feel safe even thought your best friend just left
you? Or your mate just left you? Can you feel safe even thought your children just
moved out?
Student: Can you feel good about your financial stuff even though your car just cost
$2,000 to fix? Or your tooth just fell out?
Robert: Exactly. Thats the Seven of Diamonds.

26

Seven of Clubs can be a negative mental or communication situation. For example,

somebody says something mean to you or some plans you had back fired or didn't happen
the way you planned. Mental challenges. Seven of Spades would be health or work
challenges. A Seven on the high side is when you have a high spiritual experience. Each
of you here, at some point of your lives, has had some high spiritual awakening. You
wouldn't be here if you hadn't. And that was a Seven experience or a Nine experience.
Student: I know several Sevens in relationships with Threes. Would that be something
significant?
Robert: I dont think that's significant. There's a lot of Sevens and Threes together in the
Saturn line. In case you haven't noticed, they're right next to each other: Three of Clubs,
Three of Spades, Seven of Diamonds, Seven of Clubs.
Student: So they have reasons to be together?
Robert: Anyone that falls in someone's Life Spread is often found hanging out.
Seven on the high side represents freedom from fear. Freedom from attachment. It
means giving and not being worried about receiving.
The Eights:
From Seven we go to the Eight. The Eight is another materialistic number. It's not hard
to understand, at all. The Four represents security and Eight represents security times
two. It's simple. You have enough security for your basic needs plus another families'
basic needs. You have power. Power means you have enough energy to cause change, to
move something, to push whatever. That's what the word 'power' literally means. That's
why Eights are often pushy. They can be domineering. Astrologically, the Eighth house
corresponds to Scorpio, who are the biggest controllers. They want power. 'I can make
you do something because I have power.' That's Scorpio energy and that's how an Eight
can be. Especially, if they're not feeling good inside. Regardless of who they are, every
Eight has to deal with power in their life. They are all going through a power struggle on
some level.
Student: I know a guy whos an Eight named Tommy who's ranked a Third Colonel in
the Marines.
Robert: Well, there you go.
The Eight of Hearts is also the playboy card. John F. Kennedy, Jr. and Richard Gere.
They're both an Eight of Hearts.

27

Student: And they have that tricky Jack of Hearts as their personality card with the
power to pull it off.
Robert: Just having the Eights means power. Eight of Hearts says, 'I know I can go out
and charm any woman I want, so I don't need you. I can take you or leave you.' I just
read a profile in People Magazine on John F. Kennedy. Jr. The article said that when
John F. Kennedy, Jr. looks at you, he gives you his most complete, undivided attention.
Talking to him is an experience that leaves people feeling really special. That's what an
Eight of Hearts can do. They can focus so much attention on you and make you feel so
special that you just want them. It's this intense feeling that most of us don't feel too
often in our lives. It's emotionally powerful. The catch comes when the Eight of Hearts
withholds that intensity. Remember how the low side of a Hearts card can use
manipulation. They will say, 'If you do this for meor if you'll do that for me' But it's
only for as long as they want you in their life. It's because they know they are charming
and they can use this charm to seduce someone new fives times a day. So that's how an
Eight is. All Eights have that power.
Student: What about the female Eights. Are they as powerful?
Robert: Sure. But they are not as aggressive as the male Eights are. They do have the
same power and the same problems that the masculine Eights have and that's sticking
with relationships. The female Eights get more into the subtle control of the family.
They like to control and dominate the family. They wear the pants in the family.
Women who have a very strong masculine side have trouble finding a happy relationship.
It's difficult because a lot of men just won't put up with that. Most men don't want a
woman who's pushy and masculine. They want a woman who's soft and feminine. They
want to be the man. 'Look, I'll be the man, you be the woman and we'll both be happy. If
you start being the man, I don't have a role, so I'm out of here.' That's how it is with a lot
of women who are Kings and Eights.
Student: Do they need to find a man with a strong feminine side?
Robert: They just need to find someone they can communicate well with and then they
can work it out. My wife, Katherine, who's a King of Clubs and I had this issue to deal
with. I'm a Queen of Diamonds and I want to the 'the man'. I'm the one who's wearing
the pants. But Katherine is a King. We've had to develop our communication because
she tends to communicate in a very masculine way. When she's feeling afraid she tends
to get angry. That's how women who are Eights, Jacks, and Kings react. They're not
going to say, 'I'm afraid.' They say, 'I'm angry.' Because it would be leaving themselves
open to being hurt to say, 'I'm afraid.' I told my wife, Katherine, that I want someone
who is able to say that they're afraid. She's got a lot of fear, we all do. So we worked on
this aspect of our relationship and now I have what I want. She can play the feminine
role with me now and it works out better. I can be sensitive with her, that because I 'm a
Queen. A lot of relationship issues, at least for me, have to do with role model stuff. We
need to get out roles straightened out so we can fit together and feel compatible.

28

Student: As long as you can communicate well together, you can do it. But if you can't
communicate, then there are problems. There may be times when her strength works to
your benefit. That way you dont have to be in charge all the time.
Robert: I like her to be strong when it comes to running our business. She just takes over
and it's great. But it's just on the interpersonal level that this creates a relationship
challenge. I look at someone who's being angry as being a liar. To me that's a lie.
Because that's not really what's going on. Underneath anger there is always fear.
Underneath fear is a longing for love. I want to get to that part. The real stuff. I don't
want to be yelling at each other all day long. I've already done that so many times. I try
to find out what my wife, Katherine, is feeling. I ask so that if she is angry with me then
I'll know. Then, I'll try to be as patient as I can. Because if she's angry, I start to get
afraid. I get afraid because if she's angry then I won't be getting the love from her that I
need. Instead, I'll just ask her, 'What are you afraid of?' and then I will tell her what I'm
afraid of.
Student: I've spoken to Katherine on the phone. I think she's pretty honest about sharing
what she's feeling.
Robert: She is now. But this didn't happen overnight. We worked on this for two years.
Student: I've been surprised sometimes when I've talked to her. She's very open about
what her issues are and what she's working on.
Robert: If you find someone that you can communicate with and can be open with, then
you've struck gold and it's worth holding onto. Everyone here is on a spiritual path which
means that you can't do the normal, old relationships anymore. You can't be closed
minded and stop communicating. Eight people tend to work out their issues through
power things, through controlling things. They tend to always be in some sort of power
struggle with someone in their life. If that card comes up in a reading you'll be given
some power. You'll have some power to throw around and you'll be able to see how you
handle it.
Student: Sometimes it seems like the Eights are more in a power struggle with
themselves than with other people.
Robert: Ultimately, it is with themselves. Because anybody who is trying to control
somebody else is in need of self-transformation. They want you to change but there's a
need for them to change. And they can't or they won't or they don't want to. Ultimately,
it's about their own transformation but from the outside it looks like it's a power struggle.
All these television shows like Dynasty, Beverly Hills 90210, Melrose Place, you can see
all the power struggles going on in the plot. Did you ever watch J. R. Ewing on 'Dallas'?
He was the major power player, master manipulator. That's a stage of evolution about
dealing with power. That's the Eight and it's something that we all

29

must go through and learn. We must get accustomed to dealing with power and using it
responsibly.
An Eight person deals with this issue their whole life. You can take any card in the deck
and you would find individuals who are enlightened and use their energy positively and
others who don't. You'll find enlightened Seven of Diamonds and you'll fine miserable
Seven of Diamonds. But they won't all be miserable and they won't all be enlightened.
Same thing with the Eights. Another thing about Eights is that they love to feel power.
Because they identify themselves as being powerful. They believe that they are the
power. So they are going to want to feel that power.
Student: I'm an Eight of Clubs but I've never felt that. I've always known there was
power available but I didn't think it was mine.
Robert: For you, it's mental power. You get that rush of power by using your mind to
figure out something that's really complex. And you use that power to organize
something.
An Eight of Hearts will get that rush of power when they look at you with those piercing,
X-ray eyes and nuke you with that intensity. The Eight of Hearts will nuke you with
love, attention, and affection. And you'll love it!
Let's take an Eight of Hearts. For example, if that love power I have at my disposal is
what really turns me on, because I think that I'm powerful, then I'm going to use that
power as much as I can. Using that power can be addictive. So having one partner may
not be enough.
Eight of Diamonds feels that power when they spend money. They feel it when they buy
something. And the bigger it is the better they feel. They are the power shoppers. They
are the ones that say, 'When the going gets tough, the tough go shopping.' But all the
Eights can be bossy and all the Eights will try to push you around.
Student: And they can be kind of subtle about it, too. They can act kind of sneaky.
Robert: Yes, that's true. The Eights can be very sneaky and manipulative.
Student: Do they realize how manipulative they are?
Robert: Yes, they do. Because they butt their heads up against the wall so many times.
They know. Because people have fought back. They've had to see it. My first wife was
an Eight of Diamonds and she's in the music industry. Of course, she desires fame. She
always gets into these power struggles with the people she works with. That's her biggest
lifetime challenge. When you think about the Eights you have to realize that you've
come pretty far by the time you get to the Eight stage. You've come all the way through
the Ace, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, and Seven.

30

Student: Isn't Eight also the combination of heaven and earth as well as the symbol for
infinity? Is it common for a lot of Eight people to get hung up in the material existence?
Robert: Just look at the combination of two Fours. Four + Four = Eight. The Eight is
energy times two. Think about it in terms of evolution. You start out with a Onean
idea. Number Two, you share it with other people. Three, you expand your ideas and
find different ways of elaborating or expressing. Four, you have a business now and it's
growing (Five), you have some new ideas to exploreand so on and so forth. By the
time you have gotten to the Eight, you're really into the power stage of the business. It's
really grown to the point that it's going somewhere. Then, you come to the Nine, and it's
time to let go.
The Nines:
Nine is the end of the cycle. It's come all the way to power and now it's time to move on
to something new. To let go if it completely. You had to let go of some of your
attachment. You had to let go of some of your fear in order to graduate to the Eight. In
order to get to the Eight, you had to release your fear of poverty or of not having enough.
When you get to the Nine, you need to let go of everythingto get to the Ten. The Nine
means letting go. The Nine means graduation. It means you've made it!
A Nine is like a rose that's on a vine. The leaves are already falling off. It's already
bloomed. It started out as a bud, looked beautiful, smelled wonderful, and got even more
spectacular as it continued to open. Then, it starts to wilt and fade. It's completed its
cycle. It's no longer fragrant. Nine represents the ending of that cycle. It doesn't mean
you're dying. It means that this particular thing has reached its fulfillment. It's gone as
far as it can go in your life and it can't go any further. It's over.
If we accept that, and let go of it, we'll be ready for the next thing. If we fight it, we're
trying to go back to the past. When we're afraid to let go of what we have, we'll fight
those Nines, which can, unfortunately, lead to a lot of disappointment, and frustration.
We'll cry, we'll scream, we'll kick. But you can't stop a Nine. It ain't gonna be stopped.
It's over. It becomes a matter of how long it takes for us to acknowledge the end. Nine
people are here because they reached that point in their evolution where they are at a
stepping off stage. They are ready to start a new cycle. And before they can launch this
new cycle, they need to let go.
Nine of Hearts - Needs to let go of people and relationships.
Nine of Clubs - Needs to let go of outworn ideas, beliefs, thoughts and ways of
communicating.
Nine of Diamonds - Needs to let go of things they no longer value.
Nine of Spades - Needs to let go of unhealthy work or lifestyle patterns.

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They need to let go of those things in order to graduate to a new experience. Their lives
are often touched by tragedy. A Nine can indicate tragedy for you if it comes up in your
reading and you're not in an enlightened state of mind. But it will only indicate tragedy
of you're already afraid of losing. When we are operating in a state of fear and holding
on, we are not seeing life how it really is. We are only seeing through our insecurity. At
that point, we dont even know what's really true. And we don't make good decisions.
We don't choose things that are good for us. We'll hand on to somebody that is not good
for us, when we're afraid.
For example, suppose a child gets frightened and starts going crazy. You're the adult
who is standing there and you don't see anything to be afraid of but the child is hysterical.
You say, 'If you just sit down, honey, you'll be fine.' You keep repeating this to the
screaming child. The child says, 'no, no, no,' and continues to panic. Finally, you say,
'Just sit down, honey. You'll be OK.' You know the reality but the child doesn't.
So that's an example of what is happening when we feel afraid. When we're afraid, when
we're emotionally attached, when we're fearful of losing, we don't have any objectivity.
We can't see that the 'Nine' is a graduation. We feel like we're going to die. And we're in
pain.
Student: But if a Nine falls in a Jupiter planetary period, I would think it would describe
a positive ending? A graduation?
Robert: Yes, but even then, sometimes people fuss and fight. For spiritual people, a
Nine in Jupiter is always good. Like Bill Clinton had a Nine if Spades in Jupiter this
year, right between that Mars and Saturn period. And I think he was struggling with
everything. Nine means, 'I Release.' It's like you're leaving this body, so you let go of
everything. You say, 'Here, take it all because I'm moving on to greener pastures.' That's
the perfect analogy of the Nine.
But it's looked at very negatively by people who are not seeing the truth. When a Nine
shows up it always means that something is coming to an end. It's meant to because the
situation is over for you! It's really over. It always means that. Always.
It could be a way of thinking, a belief system for the Nine of Clubs. It could mean the
end of a certain belief system. For example, you've had this belief system your entire
life. You've always believed that having sex was bad. You've always believed that sex
was a dirty thing and now a Nine of Clubs comes up in Venus or Marslet's say, and it's
time to let go of that belief. But you go through all this fear about it saying, 'Oh but if I
have sex I'm going to be a sinner and go to hell and die.' You go through all this trauma
and sweat and finally you get done with it and you're over it. You've got a few more grey
hairs, of course. You're free and now your life is much happier. Now you're enjoying
sex and it's wonderful. You got past the Nine and you're entering a new cycle.

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The same thing with a relationship. You see a Nine of Hearts. It means that there's a
relationship that's over. It's over and you need to let somebody go.
Student: I've got two Nines on my Weekly Reading that fall on Wednesday. A Nine of
Clubs and a Nine of Diamonds.
Robert: Let them go. The relationship has fulfilled its purpose in your life and probably
theirs, too, or it wouldn't show up.
Student: It can be several relationships ending, can't it? I noticed when my year changed
that so did several of my relationships.
Robert: If you've got the Nine of Hearts Long Range it can include a lot of people. You
take a Nine of Spades and you put it in Venus and it's saying the same thing as the Nine
of Hearts. Do you see why the Nine of Spades in Venus would be the same thing as a
Nine of Hearts? Or a Nine of Spades in Mercury would be the same as the Nine of
Clubs? Because Mercury and Clubs are the same thing. See how it works?
Student: I have a Nine of Hearts in Neptune under my Birth Card. And a Seven of Clubs
under my personality card. And when I look at that, I'm trying not to panic!
Robert (addressing a student): What do you feel? What are you afraid of?
Student: Seven of Clubs is Mark. And I have had the Nine of Hearts with a Seven of
Clubs with Mark. Now Cody is a Birth Card Seven of Clubs. I see the exact same
combination here.
Robert: You know, Neptune can be your hopes and fears. So what's that showing you?
That you already have the fear within you. You think that you're a normal, happy,
average person but you're walking around every single day carrying around those fears.
If anything, this will mean the end of that fear.
Student: Yes. That would be great.
Robert: It may not end today. But it will end in this year.
When you put a Seven or a Nine in Uranus or Neptune, the Nines and Sevens can bring
high experiences or Universal Love and Cosmic Vision. And that's what they mean.
Let's talk about the positive side of the Nines. Nines are givers. Nine people are giving.
They seem to be giving people.
Student: I don't see the connection. Nine people have to learn to let go and they are also
givers? How does that work? Are they giving their things always as part of the process
of letting go?

33

Robert: Yes. The Nine of Hearts and letting go of people and giving away affection.
They're counselors. Nine of Hearts are often counselors.
Student: That would be on the high side, right?
Robert: Yes. A lot of Nine of Hearts end up counselors. Ask your counselor what their
card is, or birthday. You'll find out that they'll be a lot of Nine of Hearts doing that type
of work. Or ask any Nine of Hearts, 'Don't you always find people coming to you to
talk?' They'll say, 'Always.'
Student: My Nine of Hearts friend is like the hub for this whole group of women. She
knows everything that's going on with everybody. And everybody calls her.
Robert addresses a woman in the audience who is crying:
This is good, that this is coming up for you. Because this is what you need to heal. You
need to be confronted with this so you can finally let go of it and move on. See, we al
carry around these things. Life arranges itself in such a way so that we don't always have
to face it. We can go for a year or two, and it won't be an issue. But it's still there
waiting. It's dormant. But then a situation will come uphere she has a Grandson who's
got the same exact Birth Card as her son that she lost. It's no coincidence. There's all
these similarities associated with his birth and your son's. So, of course, this is going to
awaken all those feelings she has about her son and anything that hasn't been totally
healed with that will come up again to be looked at.
For each of you, the same thing could happen. It could be in a relationship. You could
have been madly in love with...let's say...a Jack of Clubs. And all of a sudden, you go for
five years by yourself and you're happy. Then, you meet this other Jack of Clubs guy, or
you meet one of his Karma Cards, either a Jack of Diamonds or a Ten of Hearts. It's the
same thing. It's the same person. And you start to get all freaked out and afraid because
you think, 'Oh know, it's gonna happen to me all over again. I'm going to be really hurt.'
We've all done this and it's the same lesson for all of us. We can take an inventory of all
the things we haven't worked out yet. You know you could take an inventory of all the
fears you haven't quite faced, yet. I know what mine are.
Student: Doing that sounds like a great idea.
Robert: You can actually design your own spiritual growth program. You can confront
those things yourself. Suppose it involved a certain person. You could make a date to go
see them. 'This is the person that scares me the mostI'm going to go and talk to them.'
Student: What a neat idea.
Robert: That's possible for people.

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Robert: So Nines are givers. They're often seen as giving people but you have to watch
that because it can easily turn into codependency. If a Nine is acting on their low side, it
is easy for them to fall into a trap of feeling victimized. The say, 'I'm a poor victim.' And
they believe in victims. But victims do not exist. It is a fallacy. There's no truth to the
whole thing about being a victim.
There's nothing that every happened that we didn't create by ourselves. That's the truth
that we're moving into in the Aquarian age. We're not quite there yet. We're still in the
age of Pisces. Pisces is a Nine. It has Nine energy. It's the fear of loss and the unknown.
For example, Hillary Clinton is a Nine of Hearts. She's totally into codependency. She
wants all if us to be dependent on the government for our health care. And in doing so
they will enslave us. We'll be slaves. That's what codependent governments create.
Although, it may not happen, you should be aware that this is what's happening. And
Hillary, being one of the semi-fixed cards, totally believes in this. And she's never going
to change. You can never sway a Nine of Hearts. It would be useless to try to sway them
from their opinion because it is a fact to them. They believe that victims exist. 'The poor
starving victims in this country', or whatever. And all the scientific evidence to support
the theory that we create everything that happens to us in our lives. So you will be in the
minority right now if that's what you believe.
Student: Are Nine of Hearts people victimizing others when they operate on their dark
side?
Robert: They would tend to encourage people to believe in victimization. They feel
victimized themselves. They believe that we're all victims on some level. I'm not saying
all Nine of Hearts people are like this. Because there are some enlightened ones.
Student: But there could be this tendency?
Robert: Absolutely.
Student: So a Nine of Spades could feel victimized by their lifestyle?
Robert: Nine of Spades lose so much in their lives. They go through so many losses. I
have a friend who is a Nine of Spades and he lost his whole family before he turned
thirteen. They all got killed in different ways. But you take the same Nine energy and
turn it around and you've got somebody who can reach a high point in life by being a
giver to the world.
For example, Anthony Robbins, is a Nine of Clubs. A lot of famous comedians are Nine
of Diamonds. Billy Crystal is a Nine of Diamonds. There's a lot of them. It's interesting
that all these famous comedians are Nine of Diamonds. Maybe it's because they have a
Jack of Diamonds in Jupiter in their Life Spread. They are also very smart. They

35

have a Two of Clubs in Venus, a King of Clubs in Mars. They're real sharp and witty.
But with that Jack of Diamonds in Jupiter they can go out there and be really funny and
dazzle people.
The Tens:
A Ten is kind of like a One, isn't it? A One with a Zero. So you have a One with a Zero
which represents that unmanifested potential, again. So in a sense, a Ten is a beginning
of a new cycle but it's a cycle that's begun after having completed a cycle. You bring
with you into the new cycle the whole potential for a new cycle of unmanifested
potential. So, it's not just like a One. It's different from a One because it has with it a lit
of whatever was with it before. It's like you take a Ten of Hearts, who has the same
desire as someone with an Ace of Heartsthe desire to create love relationships and be
around people. But they also have the experience in their past lives of having lots of
success with people. They know how to handle people. They feel like they're part of a
group of people. It's people. Unlike an Ace of Hearts who is just looking for that one
person. They are looking for Ten Hearts.
Ten is a number of success. They represent Success because success is usually
recognized by recognition from a group. 'We now present you with this award for 35
years of achievement', and you stand up there and get your reward. That's a Ten's
experience, getting recognition. The Ten has the experience to be successful. It's already
gone through the Ace, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, and Nine. It has the
wisdom it brings right with it, all that wisdom gained from the previous cards. But the
problem with the Ten, because every card has it's share of challenges, it that they can get
obsessed with their suit. They go overboard with things and get into it too much.
Student: I know a Ten of Hearts.
Robert: What's he like?
Student: He'll be 52 this year. He's very strange. He was married for 31 years and he
just left his wife for a 25 year old.
Robert: He's going to like younger women because most Hearts like younger people.
Student: His job involves working with groups of people.
Robert: So he expresses his Ten of Hearts energy in his work.
Student: Yes. He also has lots of friends. His friends are important to him.
Robert: There are always 'Ten Hearts' around a Ten of Hearts person.
Student: His wife was a Ten of Hearts.

36

Robert: Oh, they were both Ten of Hearts? There was probably lots of little groups
around them. Some Ten of Hearts women will have a big family and they'll be the center
of the family. Remember with the Ten card you're sitting right in the center and
everywhere you look there's lots of stuff. That's what Olney Richmond says in his book.
You're in the center and all you see when you look out is prosperity and large numbers,
everywhere you look. Ten of Hearts can get obsessed.
On the negative side, look at what happened with Michael Jackson. First of all, because
he is gay, he was acting through the Queen of Hearts. He saw himself as a Mother. But
there was also this obsession with young children. Here is this grown man hanging out
with seven year old kids. That always seems a little strange to me. When the story
leaked out it all made sense. That's a perverse example of how it can go. But that can be
true of Ten of Hearts. A Ten of Hearts could be a child molester or a serial rapist of
children or a serial murderer of children. See what can happen on the negative side and
how it can flip? All Hearts have, on the negative side, some kind of potential to become
some kind of child abusers because of the obsession with children.
Student: What's Mother Theresa's card?
Robert: I don't know. I'm not sure what her card is.
Student: What is the number Ten obsessed with?
Robert: Ten is the number that can get obsessed. They get obsessed with their suit.
Hearts could get obsessed with their children or their audience. The Ten of Clubs may
have trouble sleeping at night because they can't turn off their mind. But it's worse for
them because the insomnia happens all the time. They came into this life time with a
tremendous amount of knowledge brought over with them. They know so much that they
have an obligation to share it with the world. That's why it's called the 'Teacher Card'.
So Ten of Clubs ins a great card for teachers because this gives them an outlet to get this
knowledge out of their head. A Ten of Clubs person can handle a tremendous volume of
information. They're like an Eight of Clubs when it comes to organization. They can
handle a huge project with ease. Because they sit up on the crown line, they see
themselves as being the boss.
Student: Do they sometimes have the problem of trying to do too much mentally and
neglecting themselves emotionally?
Robert: Sure. One of the things about the obsession with the Ten of Clubs is that they
obsess with their minds and totally ignore their feelings.
Robert: Notice that their Karma Card is the Jack of Spades. The Ten of Hearts has a
Karma Card of the Jack of Clubs. Both the Jack of Hearts and the Jack of Clubs can be
little liars. Tricksters. Ten of Clubs can be real slippery.

37

Student: The Ten of Clubs I know is just like that. The minister that's retiring from our
church has this big issue and did a whole sermon about trusting people and not lying and
the truth is so mutable for her that it's ridiculous.
Robert: If you're in a relationship with a really jealous manhave you ever been in a
relationship with a really jealous man? That's because they're playing around. You know
that, right? And anyone who's real upset about lying, they're a liar. Ten of Clubs are not
just liars. They're thieves. Their Karma Card, the Jack of Spades, is the thief.
Student: Wow. Or they can also be really spiritual leaders, I imagine?
Robert: Oh yes. Look at Shirley Maclaine. But still you would always want to be
cautious in any business dealings with a Ten of Clubs or a Jack of Spades because of that.
Student: The one I know is so interesting because she can do really incredible sermons.
She can point out things you've never looked at. Wonderful ability to communicate and
present information. But on the personal level she doesn't minister when people are ill.
She's not there for you for any emotional issues. And she has a real hard time carrying
out the full ministerial duties. It's real interesting.
Robert: The Ten of Clubs does not have a heart. They function from their head up.
Because it's all up in their head. And it's a tremendous head that they've got. It's a
tremendous brain that they have. They're geniuses. But don't expect any kind of
emotional response because it's just not there. And since they are so independent, they
are typically the one who are the leavers in their relationships. They're the ones who
usually leave. I have seen extreme cases where the Ten of Clubs is abused by their mate
or they find someone who is more of a deserter than they are. But that is not the rule.
The rule is that they are the first ones to leave because they're so independent. They have
emotional sides. I can tell you what their astrology charts look like. They always have
something like Moon square Saturn or Moon conjunct Saturn. That says that their
emotions are completely shut down. Moon in Capricorn.
Robert: You can almost predict. Someday I'll teach an Astrology class for you all. It's
not as hard as you think it is if it's approached in the right way. We just need to learn
how to interpret the chart and we'll do that. And then you'll see how you can almost
predict. You know someone's card and you'll also know what's in their astrological chart.
Because they go hand in hand.
Student: That Ten of Clubs that was here last night is a real mess.
Robert: She's totally obstinate, this woman. She has tried to take her own life three times
unsuccessfully. I think there's something up. You see, what's the problem with people
who lie? When I say 'lie', that always brings up some really negative things. But there
are all kinds of levels of untruth. When we are habitually untruthful, we don't know what
it true anymore ourselves, and we get lost. And this girl was lost. This girl

38

was very lost. Liars can't trust anybody. There's no one to trust. This little girl can't trust
anyone. I have her a short reading last night and a few minutes later she said, 'I don't
remember a thing that you said.' And she admitted that by saying, 'You know, I just don't
trust you. I don't trust anybody.' So she should just go ahead and end it. And her
motherHow would you like trying to be her mother when you're dealing with a
daughter who is trying to kill herself?
But anyway, that's how Ten of Clubs are. You can't change them. You can't tell them
anything. They already know what they know and they're totally obstinate. But they can
be the world's greatest teachers. And it just depends on the person. Madonna is a Ten of
Clubs. Barbara Streisand is a Ten of Clubs. Romantically, they dont have an easy time
because their Life Spread has a lot of Threes. They have a Three of Hearts in Mars.
They have a Three of Diamonds in Pluto. So, they can't make up their mind about men
or about their work.
When you take all the emotion out of love it becomes just a though process. A concept.
It's not real because it doesnt have any depth. That foes for a lot of the high numbered
Club cards. It can be with the Ten, Jack, Queen, or King of Clubs and other cards that
share Karma Cards with those cards. They can have a very mental approach to love
without experiencing any depth of intimacy. Intimacy requires the opening of the heart
and for some people it's just not going to happen. They got hurt before and they're never
going to let it happen again.
Robert: When we get a Ten of Clubs card and we're not a Ten of Clubs already, it's
going to be a period of lots of success with something to do with education or
communications. Say you saw a Ten of Clubs Long Range. Wow! You should take
advantage of that. This is a card that will allow you to spread your knowledge to large
groups. Ten of Hearts can be a really great advertising card. Wherever you go, if you
can get a group of people together you're going to be the Belle of the Ball. You will be
acknowledged and accepted by the group. They're going to love you!
Robert: The Five of Spades has a Ten of Hearts Karma Card so they have that. They're
always accepted by groups. That's why they do well when teaching classes. They're a
natural. It's interesting.
Robert: The Ten of Hearts means a social popularity or large group success. But a Ten
of Hearts person ahs more to them than that.
Student: That's where I get a little confused.
Student: What about a person who doesn't suit their card at all?
Robert: Like who?

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Student: I have a Queen of Hearts friend who is married to a Nine of Spades. They have
some wonderful Mercury connections. Their main connection in Love Cards is a
Mercury connection. They don't even have to talk to each other.
Robert: How long have they been married?
Student: About ten years. And they have tremendous communication problems. I know
that she's probably overly sensitive, being the Queen of Hearts.
Robert: That may or may not be the case. Some Queen of Hearts are not overly
sensitive.
Student: Doing numerology, I've noticed that when the individual is running more on
their negative mode, they don't fir that. Stuff is done through the positive. You can't
always know if the individual is acting out more on the positive or the negative but they
don't seem to fit the bill when they are acting out more on the negative.
Robert: What I've discovered is that when you're reading for an individual who just
doesn't seem to fit their Birth Card, what's missing is your own understanding. Because
they do fit.
Student: I tell her that.
Robert: No. You can't approach it that way. You can't change her into fitting. You have
to find out how she does fit. You have to search for that within yourself. This person has
been presented to you to understand. This is part of your learning the system. Here's a
Queen of Hearts person who doesn't seem to fit the mold.
Student: She fits her mold. It's just that their communication is absolutely nothing.
Robert: There can be a lot of reasons for that besides the connection. What are the
connections? Is it really great in the Love Cards? Is all of it totally good?
Student: No. There was some Saturn connections there.
Robert: That's important.
Student: They've got two Mercury connections and Cosmic Reward.
Student: There's no Venus or no Mars.
Robert: Look at all of those Mercury connections.
Student: I know. And they don't communicate at all.

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Robert: Suppose you took a Ten of Clubs person together with a Nine of Clubs person.
Now those people are really compatible. Extremely compatible. Like this connection is.
It's the same kind of compatibility like Nine, One, Eight, or something. But it didn't work
out. What's the answer?
Student: One of them chose not to?
Robert: Some of these cards aren't very marriageable. Did you know that? Some of
these cards are not good in relationships. Even though they're compatible they can't deal
with relationships. Nine of Spades is not an easy card to be for relationships and neither
is the Queen of Hearts. She has her indecision. She has a Three of Hearts in Jupiter. She
has a little bit of indecision about love.
Student: Exactly. Every other month she says, 'That's it. That's it!'
Robert: We're talking about two people who ideally could be happy together but are they
each at a place in their life where they are ready for that? You know how it is in a
relationshipif you want to leave a relationshipwhat do you do?
Student: Find reasons to spoil it.
Robert: Yes. You spoil it. You won't say, 'Oh I want to go, I'm out of here.' You have
to make it their fault so you don't feel guilty about leaving, right? So you cause a fight. I
do this. I've done this many times. Don't tell me that non of you have done this.
Student: Is this something we do unconsciously or subconsciously?
Robert: It's slightly unconscious. But you don't have to look too hard to see it.
Student: It's like the same thing happens during that year that your kids are about to go
off to college. They can just get really ugly and it's because they have to be able to
separate. And in order to separate and not go through all the trauma of being sad they try
to reject you to get their space.
Robert: Exactly. That's a beautiful point and that's exactly what happens. The child
wants to leave but it hurts to leave because they love you. So they get mad at you instead
because it makes it easier to leave. All of a sudden you're the big villain'I never want
to see you againI'm out of here' So there's probably something like that going on.
Look at their cards for this year and take a look at what's really going on. Don't ever be
deluded by the external picture. That's what this system offers usthe real information.
People will give you the big lie and it's not true. But I never believe that stuff and after
awhile you know. I trust these cards more than peoples' words.
Robert: The Queen of Hearts can be the biggest liars to themselves because they sit in
the Neptune/Neptune spot. They can be totally lost in a fantasy world. They are some of
the most beautiful people and yet they have so many fantasies and delusions about

41

life. And they refuse to let go of them. They think that they're the world saviors and
everything.
Student: I never looked at it that wayNeptune/Neptune.
Robert: It's the most Neptune card. I knew one that was married to a Ten of Clubs.
That's her Mercury. They have a great connection, right? The best connection, right?
For the woman to be the Queen of Hearts and to be married to a Ten of Clubs. But look
at the Ten of Clubs..having affairs all the time. Twenty-one years of it and she's still
hanging in there. 'Maybe he'll change.' That's a Neptune thing. 'He's going to change
some dayHe has got to much potentialI see so much good in him.'
Student: Wake up.
Robert: That is what you need to tell yourself.
Robert: You have that Neptune thing. Big time. I told you that because you have that
mutual reception. Venus and Neptune.
Robert: So anyway, Ten of Clubswe've covered that. Ten of Diamonds is a blessed
card. It's the center of the whole thing. The very center in the Jupiter/Jupiter position.
You can't get any better than that.
The relative ability of a Ten of Diamonds person to be happy in life is determined by
their values. Happiness for most of us is determined by our values but for the Ten of
Diamonds it is especially important. If money is their sole objective in life, they will be
miserable. They obsess on accumulating money. Their Karma Card is the Queen of
Clubs. They can go within and use that intuition. The can be the most blessed. They do
well in business. They shouldn't be denied that but it just depends on where they set their
values. Because they can be really mean people. Really selfish. Ten of Diamonds can
be really selfish because they have Two Aces in their Life Spread. In Venus and Mars.
If you have a lot of Aces in your spread it means you can be a very selfish person. Like
the Eight of Spades can be very selfish, too. It goes like thisone, one, one and me, me,
me.
Student: That's a good point.
Robert: The Ten of Diamonds are protected. Nothing really bad ever happens to them
because of their Jupiter/Jupiter position. If their values are not sound they can actually
become very poor but something will always come through right at the last minute. Bu
some miracle they'll be saved.
Student: Yes. That works for me, too.
Robert: Right. You have a Ten of Diamonds in Jupiter so that would work. Financially,
you are always protected.

42

When any of us get a Ten it can mean we have a lot of success or that we obsess. You
might have a Ten of Diamonds one year and all it amounts to is a big fantasy about
winning the lottery. It can be just a big lottery fantasy. The only times when the Ten of
Diamonds is definitely going to bring in large sums of money is when it falls in Jupiter
and when you're working in a business where you can make the money.
Student: What about when it falls in the Result position?
Robert: It's possible that you will make a lot of money.
Robert: You see, I do a lot of radio talk shows. Sometimes a lot of women call in.
Mostly women in their seventies. This always bugs me a little bit. Because they ask me,
'How's my money going to be?'
Well, they're on fixed incomes. What are you going to tell them? If you do see a Ten of
Diamonds in Jupiter it's not going to make any difference. Because where it is going to
come from? They don't have a business.
Student: They should find themselves a man!
Robert: Yeah, but some of those women aren't into finding themselves a man.
Robert: Without knowing the cards, a 70 year old person who is unemployed and living
off a fixed incomedo they think that they're going to find it on the side walk or
something? How is this money supposed to come in?
Student: (Laughter) Playing Bingo or the Lottery!
Robert: Ill ask them that next time. They should start a Bingo business. If you could
get them to start up a business they would do great. A Ten of Diamonds is not going to
work if the person is not in business.
Student: A Ten of Diamonds in Jupiter can only be effective if you have your own
business?
Robert: It can mean a lot of money is coming in. But it is going to come in through
business that you are in. It's not going to come in through playing the lottery or sitting
around hoping for it.
It's like the guy that's sitting in the chair saying, 'Lord. I really need a lot of money.' He
prays for it and he waits and it doesn't come so he prays again and says, 'Lord, I need
some money!' He still waits and nothing comes in and finally he says, 'Lord, I've asked
and you haven't given it to me. You know I really need this money!!!' And from out of
the sky comes this caption'Help me. Buy a lottery ticket!' Don't just sit there. I need
something to help me implement this.

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I look at our work, out job as a basket with which you can gather prosperity. Suppose
you were sitting under a tree and all the apples were ready to fall down because they have
all become ripe. You're sitting there with open hands and the other person starts
gathering the apples with a great basket. Who is going to walk away with the most
apples? You've got your hands and your pockets full but they have a huge basket and
they will be the ones to walk away with the most. When you look at the potential of
these high success cards, how they manifest will depend on how large a basket you've
got. Your basket size will depend on the scope of your work. That is exactly how it
works.
For each of you there can he some good fortune coming your way in the next few years.
It can be spectacular! But it's only going to be as good as the size of your pipe line, your
basket. And that's determined by your vision. How big can you see it. I go by these
cards. These cards are opportunities. Each one is an opportunity. But it does not mean
that you are going to get it just by sitting there.
Student: Do you generally just look at what's happening with your Birth Card? Will that
be the strongest indicator? Or will the Personality Cards indicate this, too?
Robert: A Queen would not be for money or business. A Queen would only be looked at
for personal matters.
Student: What about your King?
Robert: If you're in business you could look at what's happening with your King.
Student: if you're head of your household, would you want to be looking under the King?
Robert: Yes. You could. But you would only look under the King is you're looking for
money matters.
Student: Not necessarily, Robert. Because under my Queen I've got a Nine of Hearts
and a Seven of Diamonds. Under my King in the Jupiter position is the Seven of
Diamonds direct with an Eight of Diamonds vertical for this year.
Robert: If you were to start a business you could do quite well. But if you don't have a
business, you won't. The cards under the King would be about money, but usually only if
you have a business. The best thing to do is to see what happens. Then you will learn
how it really works. I would say that even though you have the Millionaire's card under
your King, the Seven of Diamonds, that it will not be a million unless you have your own
business.
Pause

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Robert: You know you can take these books to a printer and they have a machine. They
can cut off the binding so all the pages are loose and then you can bind them with the
plastic spiral bound setting. You can even put it in a notebook. They just cut the spine
off and then they punch it for you and put it in a spiral and it will last longer.
Student: And it's easier to work with, too.
Robert: Some people have gone as far as taking each page and putting it into a plastic
cover. Then it gets about this thick and they put it into a spiral bound notebook and then
it's even thicker. A lot of the printers won't copy it though unless you have my
permission. They are not supposed to because it's against the law. But I will give them
permission to if you need it.
Now, back to the Tens:
The Ten of Spades is the Workaholic Card. They can become totally obsessed with their
work. It's interesting. Billy Joel and Christi Brinkley. Billy Joel is a Ten of Diamonds
and Christi is a Ten of Spades. They both can be a little obsessed. He is obsessed with
his money and she is obsessed with her career. They're separating right now. You're
aware of that, right? She had a baby.
Ten of Spades women always have a conflict between their work and their family
because their Karma Cards are both the Four of Hearts and the Queen of Hearts. They
really identify with being a family person but they also really identify with being very
successful in their career. It tears them in two. You talk to any Ten of Spades woman
and she'll tell you, 'This is a big conflict for me in my life.' Ten of Spades men, too. I
suppose that they could also be obsessed with health issues. I don't know. You might
ask them about this because of the obsession part of the Ten.
Have you ever seen the Ten of Wands in the Tarot deck? What does it look like? The
guy has this huge load of wands. Each of those wands represents a project or something
on his 'to do' list. So the Ten of Spades can be like that with having a heavy work load.
It also indicates that you have the energy to complete that list of 'to do's'.
The Tarot card meaning may not indicate it but in the regular card deck the Ten of
Spades card is a card of success. It just means that you're working like a dog to do it.
You've got to work, work, work, work and no time for anything else.
Student: This Ten of Spades woman I know has everybody doing her work for her.
Robert: Well, she's smart.
Student: She's learned.

45

Robert: The Ten of Spades will bring you the success you want. If you see a Ten of
Spades coming up, it's a good time to set some goals for yourself and really get out there.
Make a list of what you want to accomplish.
Student: I have a Ten of Clubs and Ten of Spades in my Long Range for this year.
Robert: How do you get both?
Student: The Ten of Spades is under the Personality card, the Queen.
Robert: Oh. That means that this is going to be a great year for you.
Tens always mean broadening our influence and Tens often refer to working with
groupslarger and larger groups of people.
Student: I have the Seven of Spades and the Ten of Diamonds as the Results Cards.
Robert: There is some money stuff.
Student: It should be a good year this year.
Robert: Definitely.
Robert: When you think of Tens, also think of working with groups. Because that's
where your success usually comes. I had a Ten of Spades in Mars one year and I
remember, that period I taught three workshops. It was go, go, go. I loved it! I got so
much done. It didn't seem like a burden to me at the time. It just depends on what you
feel is a burden or what's too much. Welcome it! You put a Ten of Spades in Jupiter, it's
almost the same as the Ten of Diamonds. It means big money. It means a big expansion
of your business. You really want to expand your operations when you get a 'Ten'. You
want to think big. Do you understand?
Student: Ten means a chance of success?
Robert: Opportunity for success.

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The Jacks:
The Jack is a member of the royal family. He has got himself a little crown on his or her
head. But he/she is the only one that's not responsible for anything. He gets to hand out
with the King and Queen but he doesn't have to do all the work or take all the blame or
anything. Traditionally, the Jack was the counsel to the King. And he was always a little
crooked so you could buy him off. If you wanted some influence with the King you
could pay the Jack and he would drop a few good words for you with the King.
Student: He's the politician, isn't he?
Robert: Yes. The politician but he's not the head. They're all politiciansthe Jack,
Queen, and King the Jack would be the crooked politician. More or less.
A Jack also represents young people. Even women who are young, under the ago of 23
or so can be considered Jacks. They all behave like Jacks, that's for sure.
Jacks represent brilliance and creativity. They shine with intelligence. At the same time,
they can be ver irresponsible. And independent. It's more masculine than feminine. On
a spiritual level, a Jack represents an initiation into a higher energy level. Like a Jack of
Hearts, initiation into a higher love. Spiritual love. A Jack of Clubs is initiation into
higher knowledge.
Student: What does initiation mean?
Robert: Introduced into. Awakening. An initiation means a new beginning. It
represents a change from the past. We're talking about an initiation from something you
already do or know or are into something that's on a higher level. Jack of Hearts will be
less concerned or obsessed with mundane love and fears and more interested in spiritual
love. The Jack of Clubs is more interested in spiritual knowledge. Higher knowledge.
Something new. This class could be considered a Jack of Clubs experience. Or you
selling a book to somebody could be an initiation for them, a Jack of Clubs experience.
That book initiates them into a higher form of knowledge.
Jack of Diamonds is an initiation into a higher set of values. Where money is not their
sole object but they use money to do good work and not just for the sake of itself. That
could be like going to a workshop on prosperity.
Jack of Spades is an initiation into a higher lifestyle. After this initiation, you're living
differently. What you do everyday is different. For example, going to a yoga class.
'Now I do yoga everyday.' You didn't do it before. Or now you spend some time
everyday doing some activity that's on a higher level, or spiritual level for yourself.
That's the Jack of Spades.
When you see these cards comingonly for spiritual minded people, for the most part,
you will see a spiritual initiation happening. You have got to keep that in mind because

47

The Jack of Spades on a more mundane level is also the 'Rip Off Card.' But you have to
know that for spiritual people it does represent an opportunity to experience an initiation.
Of course, I would lock your doors(Laughter)
Student: But can't you look at the rip off aspect that somebody can't steal something
from you that you're not hanging on to?
Robert: They can still steal it, though. What if they come in the middle of the night and
steal your car? They stole it. You didn't give it to themthey took it. Or they come in
your house while you are gone and steal your television. Do you understand? The thief.
You don't even know who it was. You don't know them. You didn't even have the
chance to give it to them.
Student: What's interesting is that I have a Jack of Spades in Saturn last year and I have a
Jack of Spades in Saturn this year.
Robert: Jack of Spades in Saturn is a real caution about doctors. Be careful.
Student: I'm not having any dealings with Doctors. I'm dealing with lawyers and real
estate and trying to get rid of my Mom's estate. I'm sure it's got something to do with
that.
Robert: I'm sure they're crooked.
Student: Me too!
Robert: So you should treat them like they are crooked.
Student: Jack of Spades can be crooked as well as the Jack of Clubs?
Robert: All Jacks can be crooked!
You should be the Jack of Diamonds in order to deal with that. You can be as tricky as
they are or even trickier.
Student: This lady that we're going to be doing the reading for has Jack of Clubs in Pluto
in her Seven year cycle.
Robert: Under her Birth Card?
Student: Yes. She also has the Jack of Spades Long Range.
Robert: These are initiations for her. But we will also caution her about theft in her
work. She does shows and stuff, right? She should watch out for theft.

48

Robert: This reading can really help her because there is obviously a lot going on for her
in terms of being initiated into higher knowledge.
Bonnie says that she has been starting to get involved in the spiritual knowledge more
and more.
Student: She is a very spiritual person.
Student: Would you tell the person that they are going through a spiritual initiation but
still give the caution in regards to being ripped off?
Robert: Definitely.
Student: That's my chart, also. So it was two years ago when I had those cards and that
was when I took over the Church.
Student: Did you have to deal with major theft that year?
Robert: Seeyou may or may not. I've seen a lot of people who have. It is just
something to be aware of.
Robert: Look at BonnieBecoming the minister of that Churchthat changed her
lifestyle.
She is actually doing spiritual work. She's not just talking about itJack of
ClubsShe's actually physically working and that refers to the Jack of Spades. Do you
see the difference?
Student: When I took over the Church, there were several thousand dollars worth of
debts that I was told would be taken off but it wasn't.
Robert: I remember you talking about that. It's like there was some hidden expenses and
things. Deception.
Student: Right. Because I was told that those bills were paid.
Robert: The Jack of Spades is the actor. He can be the deceiver.
I saw the movie, The Rocketeer, the other day. It's this cute little movie, taken from a
comic book, about this guy who flies around with rockets on his back. There was this
guy, played by Timothy Dalton, and this girl who was the Rocketeer's girlfriend. He was
trying to charm her into getting things from her. In the end she said, 'You were lying to
me..weren't you?' He said, 'No. I was acting.'

49

See. This is the Jack of Spades. The actor.

Student: It sounds a lot like the Joker.
Robert: Yeah. It can be a lot like the Joker. The Jack of Spades has got to be the card
that's closet to the Joker because the Jack of Spades will be the Jack of Jacks. The
Spades being the strongest suit.
Student: Can a Joker go to the high side of spirituality?
Robert: Of course he can. Anybody can go to the high side of the card.
Student: Let's say that a person is much younger and is the Joker card. Would they act
more like what you are talking about being the trickster? As they progress in age would
this change into becoming more spiritual?
Robert: It just depends on the person. Just being the Joker doesn't mean that you're
going to be dishonest. It just means that they change faces as often as necessary. We had
a Joker here last night. A young girl.
Student: Yes. I wanted to talk to you about her.
Robert: I met her.
Student: She can't get a reading and she wants a reading so bad.
Robert: We can give her an astrology reading but we can't use this system.
Student: She is amazing. They have lots of energy those Jokers.
Robert: Jack of Hearts also has the distinction of being the 'Christ Love Card' which is
also the card of sacrifice. The martyr.
Robert: Sacrifice can be good or it can be badlike everything else in life. It can be
done for the right reasons or it can be done for the wrong reasons. We can make a
sacrifice and be lying to ourselves. 'Oh I gave up everything for you. Because I was
afraid that you would leave me. It was really a business deal but I didn't tell you that
part.'
'I paid you to stay with me. I did all the sacrifice so you would stay and I wouldn't have
to face my fears. But I want you to feel guilty because now you're leaving and I can't
stop you.' Guilt trips.
Everybody knows better, but we still say these words. Part of out spiritual growth is to
start speaking the truth. Since we know the truth, we are obligated to speak the truth.

50

'I really am afraid of you leaving and that's why I'm trying to bribe you to stay. If that
doesn't work then I'll try to make you feel guilty. And blame you for all of my problems.'
Student: It sounds like the Ace of Hearts that I was married to.
Robert: But Jack of Hearts people generally have a true spiritual love. It can be distorted
but it often can be very true, too. They're one of the fixed cards. You are not going to
change them so don't even try. Don't even try to change one of the fixed cards or even
the semi-fixed cards. You will be wasting your time. Right, Miriam? (An Eights of
Clubs)
Miriam: Yes. All of my life they have all tried to change me. It's like they are obsessed
with changing me.
Robert: It's not going to happen. The fixed cards couldn't change if they wanted to.
That's what you have got to remember about them. It's their nature.
Student: I've got all changes this year and it started last year. What do I do? I'm trying
to take the spiritual side of it and work with that.
Robert: The fixed and semi-fixed cards do have to go through changes but I'm just
saying that no one can make them change. You can't coerce them, convince them, bribe
them, into changing. It has to come from within.
Student: Would you go over the fixed and semi-fixed cards one more time?
Robert: Eight of Clubs, Jack of Hearts, King of Spades are fixed. The semi-fixed cards
are: Ace of Clubs, Two of Hearts, Seven of Diamonds, Nine of Hearts. They are easy to
find because if you look them up in the Mundane and Spiritual Spreads they are the ones
that either don't more or they alternate.
Student: So with the Ace of Clubs always have a Jack of Hearts Result every other year
means they're always giving something up for a higher cause?
Robert: Yes. And the Seven of Diamonds and the Nine of Hearts have the Jack of
Hearts Venus every other year. Ace of Clubs has the Eight of Clubs in Neptune every
other year. So does the Two of Hearts. Because of their positions. If I go back and forth
from here to here every year, because I'm an Eight of Clubs or Two of Hearts, and this
card stays here, and this card stays there, they never move. Then every other year, I have
the Jack of Hearts as the Result and the Eight of Clubs as Neptune. And the King of
Spades has either the Ace of Clubs or Two of Hearts in Venus every other year.
Robert: These are some of the reasons, on one level, why these people are so fixed. It's
inherent in their pattern to have this energy and be like that.

51

Student: Wouldn't you say, that since the Natural Spread is supposed to be the way that
God wants it to be, then the Mundane Spread is the way we manifest it on the physical
plane? If they sit in that position, and it never changes in the Mundane Spread, I would
almost have to think that somewhere within them they have the answers to how it should
be.
Robert: The answers to how what should be?
Student: How God wants this whole thing to be. They have the answers that come from
the Spiritual Spread.
Robert: Well, yes they do, those three fixed cards. They bring with them that knowledge
of how things should be. That's why they won't change. The Eight of Clubs ahs the
knowledge that won't change. The Jack of Hearts has the love nature that won't change.
The King of Spades has the will that won't change. And it's part of God's will and God's
love and knowledge. But that same unchanging force, makes changes in life very
difficult for them. They identify with that unchanging part of themselves. 'I am
unchanging.' It becomes a big problem with it's time to change.
Robert: Jack of Clubs is a brilliant card. One of it's Karma Cards is the Jack of
Diamonds. You have a very strong Jack influence when you have the Jack of Clubs.
Extremely creative. They can usually make money. They are usually very successful.
They have the King of Clubs in Jupiter in their Life Spread. You know they have the
mental brilliance to make a lot of money and to do well. Jack of Clubs people can be on
the bisexual side. They tend to be.
Robert: The Jack of Clubs will love you for being a person. Not for being a man or a
woman. That's why they can be bisexual. The male Jack of Clubs have tremendous
sexual drives and can be some of the best lovers. The women do, too. Men don't have as
much sexual energy as women do. We lose more in the act of sex than the women do.
The Jack of Clubs man has a pretty good supply because it is such a creative card. Sex is
creative. Sex is a creative process.
Student: Maybe we should all be out there looking for a Jack of Clubs?
Robert: It depends on what you want. They are good lovers but they won't be around for
very long.
Jack of Diamonds are like Jack of Clubs. They are creative. All the Jacks are very
independent. They are not going to bow down to anybody else. All the Jacks have
freedom issues. The Jack of Hearts has less in that respect. They don't want to be
controlled or made to be anything other than what they are. King of Clubs are the same
way. Actually, all the cards that sit in the Uranus position tend to be concerned about
their freedom.

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Student: When young girls take on the Personality Card of the Jack, is that why they get
so restless and then when they get old enough to lose the Jack they start to settle down?
Robert: If they are not a Jack by Birth Card, then they lose that Jack. But for that time
period the Jack energy is obvious. Some women start acting under their Queen
Personality Card younger than others. They can go into it full force even as young as
seventeen. Especially is they get married and have a child.
Student: I was already playing the role of the Queen by the age of ten. My mom was ill.
Robert: You were taking care of your brothers and sisters? If can happen a lot earlier
because of things like this, you see? You may have already been acting like a King by
the age of ten, because you became the head of the household.
A Jack for us is going to bring success in a creative fashion. If you're not involved in
work that deals with creativity or creative energy, then you may not get the most out of
the Jack. But if you can find a creative outlet, it can really work for you. Big time!
Selling, promoting, getting new ideas, talking, using your mind.
In the Yearly Spread, if you have a Jack card you can tap into these energies all year
long.
Robert: Say you have a Jack of Clubs in Mercury this year. That is going to give you a
creative mind all year. It's strongest in that period but that's going to overshadow the
whole year. It has a general influence on the entire year.
I have an Eight of Diamonds in Jupiter this year and we have made so much money all
year and it just keeps going. I'm in Neptune now and the money is still coming in.
Student: I have the Jack of Clubs in Jupiter this year.
Robert: Well, there you go. Creative writing, communicating, advertising, promoting.
A lot of times, people have creative talents but they don't know how to promote
themselves. A Jack of Clubs or a Jack of Diamonds comes up and you've got
promotional ability.
The Jack of Spades is going to be more like artistic ability, acting, or an actual initiation
into a higher lifestyle.
Robert: You have to know who you are talking to when you interpret these Jacks
because if it's not a spiritual minded individual than you are not going to be having this
initiation. Though it can happen in some cases. Sometimes a big thing happens in a
person's life and they become spiritual.

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I remember my mother told me a story about this man who was a reverend in their
church. He had been a total atheist his whole life. Where she lived in West Virginia
there was a lot of coal mines. And this man got trapped in a coal mine. It collapsed on
him. And he was trapped in there, I think she said, for a day or two. While he was laying
there trapped, he reviewed his whole life, and he came out of there preaching Jesus. His
whole life was transformed. He became the reverend of their church. That would be a
Jack of Spades experience. That's more dramatic, of course, but it illustrates how it can
happen.
Student: It could be a near death or out of body experience.
Robert: Sometimes a death of a person in the family or a death of a loved one can cause
a spiritual transformation. Sometimes it takes a traumatic experience like that to change
us. We are so ingrained. Especially, if we're a fixed person or someone who is locked
into a certain way of being. It often takes a car accident or something drastic to knock us
out of that mode in order to see the big picture. That happens to a lot of people with near
death experiences. I'm reading a book, 'Life After Life', about ordinary people who died
and they went to the other side and they were told that they had to come back. Or they
came back totally different. Their whole life changed.
Robert: A Jack of Clubs would be less intense than that. Because that is going to be an
initiation caused by some new information coming your way. It can be significant but it's
not going to be as earth shattering as the Jack of Spades, which is actually going to
change your whole lifestyle.
So, when you see these Jacks, don't forget about the initiation but they can also bring
success on the mundane level. They are success cards like the Eights and the Tens.
The Queens:
Queens are in the Royal Family but they are in a higher position than the Jack because
the Queen is really equal to the King. The Queen and the King together represent the
masculine and feminine aspects of leadership. They are both Kings in a sense but they
rule differently. The King being the more masculine ruler and the Queen being the more
receptive or motherly ruler. In a way they embody the two aspects of life, the mail and
the female, but both in a leadership position.
The Queen is the Mother. As we talked about earlier, all Queens are mothers. What they
are doing is mothering people. No matter what they tell you or how they act, they are
mothering you. Their work is involved in mothering people. Either their own children or
people they work with. Whatever work they are doing, they are doing mothering work.
They are nurturing, they are growing or doing this type of work. They have a lot of
power. This is a powerful card. Don't mess with Queens. Off with your head, right?
The Queen of Hearts(Laughter)

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And they're not dummies. Even though they are busy mothering and nurturing you can't
take advantage of them.
The Queen is a powerful card. They know they have power so they can try to throw it
around sometimes. All the Jacks, Queens, and Kings have power that they may try to
throw around. They can get pushy or ruthless or domineering.
The problem with the Queens is that they can identify too much with mothering. They
won't feel like they have a purpose unless they have someone there to mother. One of
their biggest challenges might be transforming the nurturing of their own family or
children and to be able to use that with groups. Or take that energy to a broader
perspective and to find ways of mothering people on a higher level. They often don't
mother themselves enough.
I know so many Queen of Clubs women and so many of them only live from the head up.
They are not in touch with their bodies very much. They are usually overweight or they
have health problems. They have so much going on in their minds. It is similar with the
Ten of Clubs.
The Queen of Clubs can be very impatient. They have a Three of Diamonds in Mars.
They want something to happen quick. Many of them are reckless drivers. And they
don't like people who are slow or lazy.
Student: Or the Queen of Clubs don't like people who can't grasp things, either. They
don't suffer fools gladly.
Robert: The Queen of Hearts is the Neptune/Neptune card. She is the woman that all
men dream of. She has the essence of femininity. And she can be totally lost in illusion,
too. Neptune in itself isn't bad but it us the way we use it or abuse it. And because of out
time in history, right now we are at the end of the Neptune Age. We are finishing up the
Piscean Age which began when Christ come on the planet. You know that Christ is the
fish. Fish happen to be the symbol for Pisces. Have you ever noticed the connection.
Christ was the savior for the Piscean Age. Just as Moses was the savior for the Aryan
Age before. And before that was the Taurean Age. Remember Moses brought down the
golden calf. He destroyed the golden calf that represented the former age of Taurus.
Right now, we are in the gutter of the Pisces, the end of it. So we are seeing the worst of
it. This is the time period where you just can't trust Neptune. You are better off
mistrusting Neptune, in all cases. And every now and again, you'll be proven wrong.
About one out of one hundred cases. Most Neptune energy is being misused today.
Neptune relates to drugs. It relates to movies. But on a personal level, it relates to how
we tell ourselves that we are doing one thing when we are actually doing another. And
we always have a high reason for doing it. 'Oh, I'm saving the world', 'I'm helping my
lover because he needs my love. I can heal him.' Neptune is the nurse. It is seeing the
high potential in someone who isn't exhibiting any high potential. Everybody has

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got high potential but the difference is that if you ask a Spade card about potential, they
want to see the real action. The Neptune person will say, 'But I see such potential in him'
whether they are acting on it or not.
Queen of Hearts can fall victim to a lot of that stuff. They can also be very good in
artistic pursuits. Than can be very successful, too. Their cards go up to the crown line.
They have the King of Spades in Mars.
Student: My friend is a Queen of Hearts and he can do absolutely anything.
Robert: Oh yes. With that King of Spades in Mars they can be super powerful. The
Eight of Diamonds in Venus means that they are attracted to people with money. They
like to have friends that have money. The women are attracted to wealth. They are
charming people. And they are devoted parents. The Queen of Hearts with children or
the Nine of Clubs with a Queen of Hearts Karma Card indicates that nothing will come
between them and their kids.
Student: It's codependent.
Robert: It can be codependent. I think it is in many cases.
Robert: If I am a Queen of Hearts I think that I am a mother. And a mother means being
a good mother to children. They will be more concerned with their relationship with their
kids than with their relationship with you. It's more important. All Hearts women have
that because they can become their Queen Personality Card which is very children
oriented. But the Queen of Hearts is the ultimate.
Student: Then why are they the women that all mean dream about?
Robert: Because she is so charming. The King and Queen are the highest cards in the
suit of love and romance. These people are charming and they know how to charm you
like that.
Student: But she can't give him what he wants if she is more interested in her kids than
she is with him?
Robert: She doesn't care about what he gets. She only cards about what she gets.
Student: He doesn't realize this though?
Robert: She can fake him if she wants. If I'm really good at charming people, I can sue
that to get what I want, and you will never catch me if I don't want you to. The trouble is
that they get caught in their own delusions. A lot of them really believe in codependency
and victimization. They believe that there are poor, starving victims in the world.

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Student: Do some men see that side of them and just want to be a part of it anyway?
Robert: No. It is just an essence of maleness to want to find that perfect female
complement. And the Queen of Hearts females represent that perfect female
complement. Not every man is going to want a Queen of Hearts woman, or marry one.
There is not that many of them. But when you meet one, and you are a guy, you will
know what I'm talking about. When you meet a King of Hearts you will know what I am
talking about.
Student: Because the King of Hearts is the man that all women dream of.
Robert: The Queen of Diamonds is considered one of the most difficult cards in the deck
to be, if not the most difficult, because all the cards in the Life Spread are in Saturn. And
all the cards are odd numbered cards. The Queen of Diamonds person is always agitated.
Student: The Ace of Diamonds and the Ace of Hearts share that.
Robert: Yes. But because those cards sit in the Jupiter line, it is less intense.
Robert: All Diamond women share the Queen of Diamonds Karma, romantically. They
don't have the greatest luck romantically. Look at all the Queen of Diamonds cards.
They are all Threes, Fives, Sevens and Nines, aren't they? What did we say about those
odd numbered cards earlier? They are never at ease. There is always something else.
There is always restlessness and the need for change. There is always more choices and
more ideas. Anybody who has a lot of Three energy in their card or numberlike a
Three or a Queenthey have to have some variety to be happy. They will not be happy
doing one single thing.
A Four can be doing just one thing. Or an Eights, maybe. But not a Queen, or a Three,
or someone who has a lot of Threes in their Life Path. Even a Ten of Clubs person who
has a Three of Hearts in Mars and a Three of Diamonds in Pluto. Ten of Clubs is not
going to be happy doing one single thing. The Queen of Diamonds has all odd cards and
they're all in Saturn so you are talking about a lot of Karma to pay. A life of a Queen of
Diamonds often starts out with a lot of misery. A lot of difficult experiences.
Suppose you have done a lot of nasty things in your past life. You start out your life,
early on, with bad things happening to you. What do you start to think about yourself?
You begin to think that you are a bad person and that there is something wrong with you.
A lot of cards have this, not just the Queen of Diamonds. They key is not to believe in
that. To realize that it was just a Karmic thing and it passes away. Because Karma does
pass off. It is not forever. Karma is not forever, it only lasts as long as it takes to pay off
the debt. A lot of cards have a really tough early life. When they get to the age of forty
things start to really ease up and it gets nicer and more wonderful as they get older.
Because Karma exhausts itself.

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But a lot of Queen of Diamonds get caught up in that. And a lot of other cards, too, like
the Three of Diamonds and the Ace of Spades, and the ones who heave these really tough
cards in their Life Path can get totally into this negative thing and think that their life is
cursed forever. They can create a really strong soul belief that they are a cursed person
and manifest that for their while life.
Queen of Diamonds are very charming people. All Queens can be very charming. And
the Kings and the Jacks, too, because they all represent mastery of the tings that relate to
their suit. The Queen of Diamonds has the King of Hearts in Venus vertically. It's
because of the Three of Clubs in Venus, so we know how to be charming. We know how
to talk and pout it on when we want to. We don't have any trouble finding mates.
Rather, we have trouble keeping the ones we find. With that Three in Venus it's like, 'I
found one, but oopsthere goes another one.' And they have a Three in Mars, too. 'I've
got a good job now but that would also be an interesting job to have.' 'I'll leave this job
and go do that.' They have a lot of Three energy in operation. Plus, they have a Three of
Diamonds Karma Card. Very difficult. Seven of Clubs Saturn. Queen of Diamonds
people have very rigid minds. And they're a little negative. They can have a negative
attitude.
A lot of Queen of Diamonds you meet have a but of a negative attitude. They can get
real snappy with you. They can cut you off and say things that hurt you. Because they
have a very analytical mind that's capable of going into deep subjects and dissecting it.
That same mind tends to be a little too pragmatic at times. Not only do they have the
Seven of Clubs in Saturn, they are in the Mercury/Saturn position. That's the nature of
the Queen of Diamonds card.mind/Saturn. See? Negative or hard.
That same quality helps the Queen of Diamonds to avoid getting too caught up in the
Neptune stuff. Because Saturn cuts through the Neptune. That's one of the things that I
know that I do in my workshops, is to help people cut through the Neptune because I can
see through it. The Saturn cuts through that and not many cards have that ability.
(Robert is a Queen of Diamonds)
The Queen of Diamonds highest gift is to teach and give love. That Nine of Hearts in
Jupiter is about giving love out to groups. It's love that I'm giving. You think it is
knowledge but it's not knowledge it's love. Universal love. We (the Queen of Diamonds)
don't often experience satisfaction at the personal level. It's not out lot to have that. We
create being happy in our life by using what we've got.
The Nines don't usually bring personal satisfaction but they do bring Universal
satisfaction. Nine people will tell you that. They have to give up having personal
satisfaction in their loves in favor of helping the world. And then they receive from that
satisfaction enough that it actually compensates for the loss of personal satisfaction.
That's the key with a Nine. The Nine means that I get so much satisfaction in giving to
groups, that it is enough or more than enough, to satisfy my need for personal
satisfaction.

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The Queen of Diamonds likes to spend money. We are the rich Aunt or Uncle or the notso-rich but act like we're rich Aunt or Uncle that will buy you something. The Queen of
Diamonds will always take you out and buy you something nice. We buy good gifts.
And then we worry about money because we've spent all the money we had.
Student: The Queen cards I know seem like they are mature even when they're still
children.
Robert: Right. If you have a little girl or boy in your family who is a Queen or a King or
even a Jack, you're not going to push them over. You could have a set of parents. Let's
say the father is the Seven of Clubs and the mother is the Five of Diamonds. They have a
daughter and she is the King of Clubs. She walks right in and she is the boss.
When you have a child who is born under one of the royalty cards, they are not going to
bow down to anybody or be told what to do. The best thing to do is just let them go
because they have to learn on their own. They're not going to learn anything from you
unless you are a Jack, Queen, or a King, too. You can love them by letting go of them
and letting them be and by telling them how wonderful they are. That will help. But
don't try to change them. They know that they know more than you do. They know
exactly where you stand in the scheme of things and they know where they stand. And
you're only a measly Four or Fiveand they're a King and they know that!
Robert: My sister has this cute little son who is a King of Clubs. I love watching him.
They have such integrity about them. They are bossy but they really do have a sense of
honesty and goodness about them. It's wonderful to see that, you know. This friend of
mine has a King of Clubs daughter and she has these little classes with her friends. She's
up there teaching them. She's only ten years old and she's already teaching all her
friends. My friend is an Ace of Diamonds, by the way, and she has a King of Clubs
daughter. And her daughter is helping her organize her business.
The Queen of Spades can be spiritual and if it's spiritual it's great. But most Queen of
Spades women are drudges.
Student: I'm a drudge? I am not!
Robert: Sure you are. You're stuck in this job that you hate. That's what I mean. You
can't see above the mire of the world.
The Queen of Spades can get caught up in thinking their life is an endless toil. Toil is a
good word. It just means work, work, work, struggle, struggle, struggle. Work, struggle,
and more work. But Queen of Spades on the high side, is the card of Self Mastery.
Every Queen imparts to their children, whether they are their own children, or other
people's children.

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The Queen of Hearts imparts Love. Higher Love.

The Queen of Clubs imparts Higher Knowledge.
The Queen of Diamonds imparts Higher Values.
The Queen of Spades imparts a Higher Lifestyle.
Robert: What we are doing in our work is to show people that there is a higher set of
values. That means that money is not everything. Even though we're involved with
money, we're not trapped by money. That's the Queen of Diamonds thing. The Queen of
Clubs would be Higher Knowledge. Let's give our children the truth. Queen of Clubs
women will go out of their way to provide their kids with a good education. They will
even make sacrifices to ensure that their kids get a good education. The Queen of Spades
teaches the work ethic.
Student: I just laughed because my mother is the Nine of Spades and she's not happy
unless everyone around her is working.
Robert: Yes. And they can be the biggest slave drivers. Spades are workers. If you
want to hire somebody for your business that can really work, hire a Spade.
We once needed a guy to help us in our jewelry business, four or five years ago, and I
knew that the fixed signs work best. I didn't know the cards back then. We picked this
Aquarian guy and he was great. Whatever you told him to do, got done. He was diligent.
Because Aquarians, Leos, and Scorpios, the fixed signs, tend to finish what they start.
You can count on them. The mutable signs, Pisces, Gemini, and Sagittarius are
changeable.
Student: I can imagine your employment application. Forget about your work
experience. Just tell me your birthday!
Robert: Exactly. This science could be used so effectively in personnel departments for
businesses. Not only in selecting people who will do a good job but also in selecting
people who will be able to work well with each other.
The Queen of Spades is the card of Self Mastery, but it can mean just being a drudge and
being a workaholic, too. Generally, it's a very successful card.

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The Kings:
A King is a Thirteen which reduces down to a Four. A King is very solid like a Four
person. But unlike a Four person, a King is not limited in how they view the world. A
Four tends to be a little bit closed. Fours tend to be able to see only so far. A King has
the whole picture, the universal picture. A Four of Clubs person who, let's say, is a
psychologist, will know hoe to cure you by helping you set boundaries. But that's all he
can do. He can't take you beyond that certain point because this is all he knows.
The King of Clubs person will be able to see the whole evolution, and the steps you need
to take to understand it completely. The Four will find a mastery and satisfaction with
one particular area and make that important. And that is important, in the scheme of
things, but it is not the same as a King's view point which is broad reaching. The King
sees the whole picture. The King is stubborn, like the Four who can also be very
stubborn. But they're stubborn because it come from a knowing about life. They just
know. They know the whole thing. And they have mastery over their suit. Any King,
like an Eight, can abuse the power they have. Certain Kings are more likely to abuse that
power than others.
Robert: The ones I've seen that are more likely to abuse that power are the King of
Hearts and the King of Diamonds. I don't know why. Maybe because the King of
Diamonds only has one eye showing on the card, which we'll talk about in a minute. And
the King of Hearts, maybe it's because it's the first King. But they can be the
irresponsible playboy types.
Student: I knew a King of Hearts. He was this eternally youthful old man.
Robert: They're very loving. I like King of Hearts people. I've liked all the ones that
I've met, although, most of them have been women because of the type of work that I do.
I always get along with them and I appreciate the type of people that they are but they're
not always happy in their life. The women King of Hearts have problems in their life
because they're very strong.
Any woman who is a King is going to have some problems finding the right kind of
relationship that fits because they have to find someone with whom they can be
themselves. They are very masculine but they're in a feminine body. It can be a little bit
of a challenge to get the role thing straightened out. Same thing for men who are Queens.
They have a hard time in the same way because they have a very feminine side even
though they have a masculine body.
Student: Robert, I did a reading for a King of Hearts man and then I did a reading for a
King of Hearts woman, back to back. And both of them seemed to have this fatal
attraction where they were totally obsessed with one person in a relationship. Have you
seen this a lot?

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Robert: I've seen something like that with the King of Hearts. But it's not their problem
exclusively.
A King of Hearts person has emotional power and charm. Like an Eight of Hearts
person. They know that they can get what they want or they realize this power at some
point in their life. It depends on the maturity of the person what they do with it. That
power can be used to help and heal the world and to lead a happy and balanced life or it
can be used to just have fun, fun, fun, and avoid responsibility.
I've met King of Hearts who are very wonderful people, mature, and very balanced. And
you would love to have someone like that be your mate or preacher because the love is
genuine. The King of Hearts represents John in the bible. The Four Kings represent the
Four books of the Bible, Apostles,Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. John the Beloved,
is the King of Hearts. So it's that really true spiritual love. With all that power and
charm at their disposal some Kings can be users. Another thing about the King of Hearts
is that they have the Two of Clubs as their Karma Card. This makes them very smart and
can also cause them to avoid their feelings. Their own personal feelings. They're very
intellectual. Two of Clubs is a fear card, too. It's the 'fear of being alone' card. That
comes out in some King of Hearts, too. He is someone who is inwardly afraid of being
alone and has all this outward charm and ability to get what he wants. When you put it
all together, you can see how this manifests.
The King of Clubs sits in the Uranus/Uranus position. This is a person for which
personal freedom is extremely important. And not just personal freedom but
individuality. I have not met a King of Clubs individual that did not have the Sun square
Uranus in their astrological chart. And what does the Sun square Uranus mean?
Student: It would intensify the love of freedom and they would be a bit unconventional,
too, wouldn't they?
Robert: Yes. Unconventional but basically rebellious and no one is going to tell them
what to do or what to be. On a deep level it means a fear of losing one's identity. People
who start businesses are usually people who do not want to be told what to do. If you
don't want to have a boss, you start your own business so you can be your own boss.
That's a King and the King is the boss. King people often take responsible positions.
And it's often because they don't want to be told what to do.
So the King of Clubs in very independent. But it's also very psychic. It's the most
psychic card of the deck, too. The Queen of Hearts is psychic but it's a more Neptune
type of psychic. There are two types of psychics. There's the Neptune psychic and
there's the Uranus/Aquarius psychic. The Neptune type can feel what other people are
feeling and they can sympathize. They will pick up on the thought forms around you
when you get a reading but those are the ones who are more likely to be deluded.
The Uranus psychic is the type that just knows things because the answers just pop into
their head. The King of Clubs , more than any other card in the deck, live totally on

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intuition. So much so that they don't even know it. They don't even realize that they're
living totally on intuition. It's so natural to them that it's only a part of life. And
everything they do is by knowing and intuition. And mentally, there is no equal. There
are other cards that are extremely smart, but the King of Clubs intelligence is from
another level. It comes like a little knowing out of the heavens.
The King of Clubs will never do something that they don't believe in. They live by their
own truth. Their knowledge comes from their values. The only place where they get
caught is in the fear of emotional stuff.
Student: Why?
Robert: I think it's because their Moon Card is the Two of Clubs. The fear card is their
Moon Card. They do have emotional things that get them. Overall, they can still go
along with their life and do okay. But I have seen some of them who just don't reach
their potential. And they get caught up in a lot of fears. They are so intelligent and so
wonderful. It's a shame when they don't reach their potential.
Robert: Their Two of Spades Karma Card says that they have to have a partner. Not
necessarily a love partner, but often it is a love partner. At the very least, a working
partner. They work much better in partnership. They are one of the few cards who have
a Karma Card that is also their Jupiter Card. The King of Clubs Karma Card is the Two
of Spades which is also their Life Time Jupiter Card. There are other cards that have
that, too, but it's not that common. Some of the greatest contributors to our world today,
are the King of Clubs. John Lennon, Mozart, Joanie Mitchell, Joan Crawford, Grace
Jones, Fidel Castro, Walt Disney, Queen Elizabeth II, Troy Donahue, Dean Martin,
Alfred Hitchcock, Barry Manilow, and Billy Graham. All of them are King of Clubs and
there's a lot more new ones. You are talking about people who have the potential to do
really great work in their life.
King of Diamonds is the one-eyed King. This can be, and has been referred to, as the
most materialistic card in the deck. That's because of the Mars/Venus position of the
card. Mars/Venus together can be a user. Someone that uses other people. People that
have Mars square Venus in their chart can be users. They can use you for sex or money.
Being one-eyed, they can be one-sided in their opinions and refuse to see any other point
of view. For that reason, they can make a lot of enemies. Arsenio Hall is a King of
Diamonds and he ahs made a lit of enemies in his life.
The King of Diamonds can do great in business like the Ten of Diamonds. They can
really make a business go. And the Ten of Diamonds and the King of Diamonds really
do much better in their own business. So when I meet one, I often encourage them to
stop working for other people and to start doing their own thing. It's good to remind a
King of Diamonds that they will do better by having their own business. And they will
actually feel better, too. They will be happier. They have the Three of Clubs Karma
Card so they can be worriers. They can either be very creative or they can be worrisome.
And because it's their Karma Card, it is hidden. The Three of Clubs

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underneath is a hidden characteristic and the King of Diamonds doesnt want to show you
that, of course. Kings, Queens and Jacks don't want you to see that they get afraid
sometimes, so they'll hide their fear. What they do is get angry.
The King of Spades is the last card in the deck. King means taking responsibility. Just
being a King means that you are a person who tends to take responsibility and assume a
leadership position. The Kings will want to become the leader or become the boss.
There are cases where that just seems like too much responsibility or too much work.
The King then can take off the crown and go down to the Jack. Or the women can
become the Queen. But they will be giving their power away. They give up their power
intentionally. You meet a lot of them who do that. Especially the King of Spades
because the King of Spades position has such a tremendous responsibility. It's like the
biggest responsibility of all the Kings.
I met a King of Spades guy. His name was John. He came over one night and we were
talking. He calls himself, 'Jack'. Jack of Spades. And guess what he does for a living?
He's an actor. He said that he used to be called John, when he worked at this big
corporation. When he started acting, he changed his name to Jack.
Student: Wow. He literally went from a King to a Jack.
Robert: Exactly. It was so weird but it was so right on, too.
The King of Spades are masters of anything they decide to do. Unless the men decide to
stay Jacks, they always rise to the top of their chosen profession. The King of Spades is
the last and most wise and powerful card in the deck. They have high regard for wisdom,
a love of learning, and are willing to do whatever it takes to achieve success and
recognition. They are capable of managing the largest organizations.
They have indecision about love and close relationships and often they forego marriage
for a single life. They are always enterprising and ambitious, rarely lazy or of a lower
persuasion. Even though they don't all reach a high place, all of them have the wisdom
and rarely do they sink down to lowly acts. With all their abilities, they are often
discontent. This can be channeled into progressiveness or dissatisfaction. When they go
within, to the spiritual realms, they are able to penetrate the deepest secrets with ease.
These are the Masters.

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