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Emily May's Reviews > Educated
Educated
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Westover is clearly a decent writer, but I felt underwhelmed by this book. Some things didn't seem to add up. Such as how an uneducated mountain wildgirl clicked her heels together, magicked up thousands of dollars (yeah, yeah, scholarships don't cover everything, you know), and went on to some of the world's most prestigious higher education centres. Intelligence is not the main thing required to attend Harvard or Cambridge; being able to pass exams and perform the system's dance is. Someone without formal education should have no idea how to do that.
Also-- are some people magically cured by herbs and finger-clicking here or did I miss some medical intervention along the way?
But I think, overall, I was just a little disappointed because everyone seemed to find the survivalist aspect so dramatic and awful. I've read a few books about isolated communities that go off the grid and enforce their own laws and, I have to say, Westover's experience felt pretty tame. Her family were survivalists who spent months canning peaches and hunting for scrap, but is this really that odd? I heard all these promises of "wilderness" and "mountain survivalists", but they have a phone and TV. I would say this family is more "eccentric" than "survivalist".
Where the book does succeed is as a portrait of physical and emotional abuse. I think this was the most important part of the book and it's been glossed over in favour of people's delight at learning about weirdos running around wild in the mountains. (I'm not judging; I came for that too.) I also found it really interesting and sad when the author suggested that her father's paranoid delusions might have been undiagnosed bipolar disorder.
It's a quick read with crowd-pleasing writing, I'll give it that. But it's hard to not feel like something is amiss, and certain events were probably exaggerated. Or, alternatively, Westover's "survivalist" family were sitting on a few on-the-grid dollars that conveniently popped up when equipment needed repairs and people needed to go to college. It's also possible that the writing just lacked clarity.
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Also-- are some people magically cured by herbs and finger-clicking here or did I miss some medical intervention along the way?
But I think, overall, I was just a little disappointed because everyone seemed to find the survivalist aspect so dramatic and awful. I've read a few books about isolated communities that go off the grid and enforce their own laws and, I have to say, Westover's experience felt pretty tame. Her family were survivalists who spent months canning peaches and hunting for scrap, but is this really that odd? I heard all these promises of "wilderness" and "mountain survivalists", but they have a phone and TV. I would say this family is more "eccentric" than "survivalist".
Where the book does succeed is as a portrait of physical and emotional abuse. I think this was the most important part of the book and it's been glossed over in favour of people's delight at learning about weirdos running around wild in the mountains. (I'm not judging; I came for that too.) I also found it really interesting and sad when the author suggested that her father's paranoid delusions might have been undiagnosed bipolar disorder.
It's a quick read with crowd-pleasing writing, I'll give it that. But it's hard to not feel like something is amiss, and certain events were probably exaggerated. Or, alternatively, Westover's "survivalist" family were sitting on a few on-the-grid dollars that conveniently popped up when equipment needed repairs and people needed to go to college. It's also possible that the writing just lacked clarity.
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Reading Progress
February 27, 2018
– Shelved
May 23, 2018
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Started Reading
May 24, 2018
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Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-50 of 293 (293 new)
Kats wrote: "I'n tickled pink!! This has got to be the first time ever that I have read a book before you have. ;-) But now, of course, I worry that you hate this book because you're a harsh (but fair) critic...."
Haha, glad to hear you enjoyed it! I'm waiting on this at the library and it could be quite a while before I can read it but I hope I like it too :)
I'm reading this now and it is truly a unique read.
So agree! Mostly I felt like their life-style wasn't that outrageous, maybe because my family still grows and cans veggies and fruit. Her family's living resembled more of the hipster/commune type, with all of the essential oils, midwifery and home-schooling. I am still struggling with why is any of this seems shocking to people... And I am also wondering, if these people were liberal hipsters and did all the same things, what would the reaction have been to such a book? Is it only shocking because Tara was unaware of Holocaust and used the n-word.
Tatiana wrote: "So agree! Mostly I felt like their life-style wasn't that outrageous, maybe because my family still grows and cans veggies and fruit. Her family's living resembled more of the hipster/commune type,..."I feel the same. I don't want to give where I come from a bad name but, honestly, a lot of this just sounds like the north of England. Lol.
I also don't think that her situation wasn't that outrageous, for me, it was more the courage it took for her to stand up to her family. Sometimes your own family is the hardest to face about your personal convictions and choices.
Wow, you are the first reviewer to say just how un-outrageous this family was. I too thought, from all the other reviews, that they were totally off the grid, but a phone and tv does not make you so. I agree.
Thanks for this!! I'll skip this one. At the very least, off the grid means no electricity. Unless it's from solar panels. I mean, c'mon.
Uh oh, not another "I live off the grid" but not actually living off of the grid memoir.
Fun review Emily. I am planning to read this in the future and didn't read the blurb so I didn't know the details of the book. It somes similar in premise to Hillbilly Elegy, so I am curious how it compares. (Hillbilly hit home because I come from a comparable Kentucky background as Vance.)
I was also underwhelmed by this book. I think a big part of it for me was that it was so similar to Kristin Hannah's The Great Alone (even the same narrator), so it really took me out of it. Until she went to college, I felt like I was just reading the same book over again.
Isolated communities that enforce their own laws? Tell me where I can find that please!
really helpful review so I can better prioritize my want to reads
Natalie wrote: "Isolated communities that enforce their own laws? Tell me where I can find that please!"Hi Natalie. I have read Under the Banner of Heaven, Gated, The Chosen One, and The Sacred Lies of Minnow Bly. Also, as Nicole mentioned above, there is The Great Alone. The first one is non-fiction, but the others are novels.
great book and good review thank you for sharing
I thought it was absolutely crazy that people in a first world country live like this! Inconceivable! Don’t think that would fly anywhere in Europe - only in USA!
Elisabeth wrote: "I thought it was absolutely crazy that people in a first world country live like this! Inconceivable! Don’t think that would fly anywhere in Europe - only in USA!"Parts of this reminded me a lot of my childhood in England XD
She details her difficulties paying for BYU (which isn't as expensive as most private Universities in the US) and the assistance she received from her bishop and professor. For Cambridge she received the Gates Cambridge Scholarship which is a full tuition scholarship for Graduate study for students not from the UK.
Wait, is it a memoir or a fantasy novel??
Whether she received financial aid or not, it's still expensive. Especially for a family that doesn't have traditional, money earning jobs. I will admit that I didn't read the book and after this review, I have no interest. But, she met the bishop and professor AFTER enrolling, right? So that means she had to have some money upfront. Now, it's totally possible she qualified for a lot of grants when she filled out her FAFSA (if that existed when she went to school, not sure how long ago this was), she would have qualified for maximum financial aid if her family had no real income. But even maximum financial aid through the federal government isn't going to be enough for anything other than maybe a 2 year university. Higher education is incredibly and ungodly expensive here in the US.
Also, I'd like to add, that from what I see of the reviews, I think what people (at least in the US) find shocking about her life is that they have never been to a doctor, had home births without a doctor, and that some of the kids were totally unknown to the world because they didn't even have birth certificates. I believe that wouldn't be as shocking to some that live in certain areas, but I live in the Midwest and in the suburbs, so stuff like that doesn't really happen. At least not to my knowledge.
Jessica wrote: "She details her difficulties paying for BYU (which isn't as expensive as most private Universities in the US) and the assistance she received from her bishop and professor. For Cambridge she receiv..."Yes, but tuition is only a portion of the problem. She then has rent and living costs, which are not covered by the scholarship. Unfortunately, financial aid for U.S. students is not the perfect solution it is often portrayed as.
I think picking berries and making jam as a tradition is one thing, but to do so because you believe the government is out to get you and you’re stockpiling supplies...that’s completely different. And also they are religious fundamentalist survivalists which adds another layer to the bizarreness. If they were liberal hippies on a commune instead of Mormons, but still mentally ill and believing the govt was out to get them, etc. it would still be shocking. Neglect and abuse are shocking. History of Wolves was a good fictional read along that theme.
I’m glad she stood up to her parents, found other supportive family members, and was able to hang in there and seized the opportunity to educate herself. Not everyone is so lucky or tenacious.
Hey, sorry this isn't related to the book, but are you planning on reading The Burning Maze? (Book 3 of Trials of Apollo series by Rick Riordan)
Heather wrote: "Hey, sorry this isn't related to the book, but are you planning on reading The Burning Maze? (Book 3 of Trials of Apollo series by Rick Riordan)"I had planned to, but my time is so limited right now with work and the two young kids, which is why I haven't got around to it. Hopefully soon!
As a child survivor also of abusive parenting, I can attest to the truth of this memoir. Unfortunately, for those who have not experienced this sort of thing, It is unbelievable. It is however horrifically true.
I agree with your point, Emily. But more than the credibility of the author interpretation of events, which is inherent in all memoirs to some extent, I was mostly struck by how detached I felt to her and her story - she wrote in such a clinical way and for me I just couldn't fully connect with her struggles in a deep way. That lack of emotional pull, was for me was the biggest deterrent, making it really tough to plod through to the end.
I agree. I spent so much time rolling my eyes, especially every time she bought a ticket to go home...again. I enjoyed the writing style, however I did not enjoy the story. I would have made a different choice: leave and never go back.
I also find it strange that with absolutely no education at home, 3 of the 7 children all have their PHDs, there had to been some education going on, at least a fostering of the love of learning.
Cara wrote: "I also find it strange that with absolutely no education at home, 3 of the 7 children all have their PHDs, there had to been some education going on, at least a fostering of the love of learning."Right? Or, if not, we should all clearly just give up on formal education.
I really liked this book, but sometimes I wondered if we are going to find out that it is all a fake. I was definitely skeptical about some of it.
It kinda feels like the negative parts of this review are about the hype rather than the actual book. The part you said you liked, the "portrait of physical and emotional abuse." is what the book, I feel, was intending to convey. I think the book was intended to be that much more than a book about survivalists.I also feel like she's very clear about the limits of her memory. One of the things I loved about the book about how she wrestled with her memories and the truth of them.
I really felt like she wrote the book liberal academics wanted to read, and then it was hyped by media outlets because it fits their narrative of religious homeschool. She managed to hit every stereotype and mold her family & experience to fit it. Is it true? Maybe. But it felt very systematic in hitting certain stereotypical topics. At some point while reading, I did a google search on media coverage local to Idaho. I found an article where the journalist interviewed the family’s lawyer (THIS family, of memoir fame, has a lawyer) who cautioned to read with a grain of salt. He said the family is not pursuing libel damages because she is their daughter. Also of interest, they have a lucrative, 20 year old, family owned & run business. They sell products on the internet, the mom has YouTube videos educating in the use of essential oils. I feel this is at odds with the narrative (and mother’s head injury).
I would love a memoir written by either the mother, or one of the other siblings with a PhD.
I was interested to try to research the essential oils business too! I really wondered about the academic part more than anything. I don't know anything about home schooling, but I'm assuming you can get into college without transcripts if you are home schooled? Maybe especially at schools like BYU? Many times, I also thought, "wow, these people must be brilliant." I went to public schools, got good grades, and tested fairly well, but I definitely could not have gotten into some of the schools she got into. Years of schooling and practicing how to write effectively for me, and she managed to get in by studying on her own for a while? Doesn't say much about the effectiveness of school in general! Except for what she didn't know about history when she finally went to school, of course. Or maybe I'm just not as gifted as her and her brothers. Lol.
Whole lot of gaslighting going on in these comments. It’s interesting how many readers don’t want to believe Westover. Why is that? Her parents live the perfect conspiracy theorist’s life — they decide which parts of their extremism are convenient to uphold and which can be abolished or ignored. Re her ability to get into BYU — she credits her parents’ message that they could learn whatever they wanted if they were determined. (Her interview — https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018...)
Gabrielle wrote: "Whole lot of gaslighting going on in these comments. It’s interesting how many readers don’t want to believe Westover. Why is that? Her parents live the perfect conspiracy theorist’s life — they de..."It's fine that you disagree but don't twist the definition of gaslighting, which is a disgusting form of psychological abuse. No one here is trying to make the author feel like she's crazy-- we're discussing gaps in her story and things that don't add up, suggesting she might have exaggerated in parts. It is not gaslighting to question whether claims made in a work of non-fiction are supported by the evidence - it's called critical thinking.
Emily, I agree. I thought it was a great book. I didn't set out to want to believe or to not want to believe, as Gabrielle suggests. I just read the book and thought about it. That's all. I had an interesting discussion with my dad about it, and I plan to have one with the others whom I know are reading it. I think it's good not to take everything at face value. Critical thinking is very important.
Yikes... I have to disagree with your review and a number of the comments here. Let me attest to the fact that family structures (and fathers) such as Westover’s are REAL and they are damaging. The impact of beliefs like theirs on children are REAL and damaging. We’re not talking picking berries and doing a little y2k canning, we are talking about women being called “whores” at whim, parents preventing their children from receiving a balanced education, brothers repeatedly beating their sisters, fathers endangering the lives of their families... did you read the book? In addition, when someone claims to be abused physically and emotionally, writing quite vulnerably about her own brokenness, a response of “what a thoughtful fantasy novel” seems biting. This is a persons life, and this is a victim’s account of abuse. While I understand not taking every detail as gospel (even the author discusses this), I’d be hesitant to call her story an “eye roller” or discredit its credibility entirely just because you don’t understand how she could afford college or get by without medical intervention.
Liz wrote: "Yikes... I have to disagree with your review and a number of the comments here. Let me attest to the fact that family structures (and fathers) such as Westover’s are REAL and they are damaging. The..."Did you read my full review, though? Because I stressed that the portrayal of domestic abuse was the most important thing, but it has been buried by the media hype. I am not doubting the abuse, nor rolling my eyes at it, but I am questioning how magical things seemed to happen for Westover. That's not unreasonable.
I thought this book was fantastic, but I didn't know anything about it until I started reading (someone else picked it for our book club). I didn't have any expectations that it would include off-the-grid living, so I didn't feel disappointed in that regard. I felt like it was more a reflection on her transformation as a person, not so much a chronicling of her unconventional childhood.I do agree that a lot seems left out in terms of how they afforded anything, ever, though.
3 of the 7 siblings have a PhD? Her mother is onYT? She magically went to the most prestigious universities in the world? Yeah, I'm not reading this one
“Magic” doesn’t feel like the appropriate word to describe earning scholarships, grants and fellowships.
Katie wrote: "“Magic” doesn’t feel like the appropriate word to describe earning scholarships, grants and fellowships."No, the "magic" is the thousands of dollars she would need outside the scholarships.
If you look at this article, you can see her parents claim that it is fabricated. You can also get her parents real names from this article. A quick Facebook search will show you her mothers Facebook page and she has a picture of the father there, with no scars on his face. That raises some big questions for mehttps://www.hjnews.com/allaccess/educ...
In my opinion she more than adequately explained how she was able to pay for her schooling, by first her savings and help from her parents, then through the church, then through grants, scholarships, and fellowships that included room and expenses. She also says she took out loans on top of that. She hardly bought clothes, or had friends to go out with, and she didn’t drink. If you live simply, as she was taught was the only moral way to live, it makes sense she had the funds even with flights to Idaho. Also, there is a difference between canning and using holistic oils, and canned a decade’s worth of fruit, burying like thousands of gallons of gas in the ground, and also burying an arsenal of weapons because to the them the apocalypse was about to happen any minute. She slept with her “run-for-the-hills” bag. This is not normal. Also, three of her brothers and other family members support her claims and a fact-checker was hired. And lastly, it’s obvious to me that the family was of high intelligence. Couple that with the yearning for an education they were taught was of Satan, deciding for themselves they would still go for it, I would also want to go as far as I could with it and get that PhD. I can’t imagine how precious that education must feel to people who had none for the first 17-18 years of their lives. Just my two cents.
Finally someone put into words what I felt about this book thank you
I personally loved this. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree
A lot of things did not add up . For example, the hand washing part . The mother is into herbs and homeopathic medicine and yet does not have soap? And .. they have a tv and phone ? They were concerned that Luke’s burns on his leg would get infected and he’d die in hospital but yet it was thought he was safer treated with herbal medicine? Huh?
Where did the money come from ? I understand she got one grant of $4000 and she used $1400 for dental work . She was ignorant and called to send the remainder back . She travels back and forth to home , and Paris and Middle East . I wondered too , if they lived in fear of government control , did they get a SSN , passport, tax receipts, drivers license, immunization records ? I know when I moved to the US , documents and medical papers were necessary for schooling and employment and travel . How did she go from no education training to PhD ? I have two adult kids in university in the US and it is not cheap even with a scholarship for our son . They can rarely afford gas for driving and money to live and eat. Heck, I recall paying $100 for nursing text books when I went to university in 1988. I can’t fathom how she got through the doors of the universities without the knowledge of writing tests and referencing work , little understanding of math , history, etc. There was something missing here , she had to have help in studies along the way . The way the story reads is that she is actually very ignorant when she sits in classroom and afraid to ask questions . There was a period where she was falling behind in her studies and watching tv for 18 hours at a time . That would mean a fail for me . I did not like this book.
But now, of course, I worry that you hate this book because you're a harsh (but fair) critic..... so.... waiting with baited breath for your review of "Educated".