Lisa's Reviews > Notes from Underground

Notes from Underground by Fyodor Dostoevsky
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Bravo, Dostoyevsky! This is the perfect, absolutely accurate and universal portrait of the insecure, self-conscious egomaniac - pitiful and dangerous, on a negative quixotic rampage against himself, society and the laws of nature he despises but cannot change.

There are so many of these angry men (and women), and they don’t speak from the underground anymore. With modern technology, they have conquered the virtual world, spewing out their self-pity and hatred in long, inconsistent, frustrated tirades, contradicting themselves at each moment, without thinking.

“I am this or that … or no, wait, I was lying, … I am that or the other… I am going to show them all, slap them in the face …“

Dostoyevsky’s misfit is far more eloquent than his modern alter egos, quite similar to authors like August Strindberg, darkly misanthropic and full of self-loathing, but with a sharp intellect and deep understanding of the world of the 19th century, which is undergoing deep and irreversible change.

The man from the underground is seriously shaken by the new scientific era, which he intellectually recognises, but hates because it leaves it to his own responsibility to define meaning in life. The new individual initiative which is required for success in the modern world is scary and diametrically opposed to the old structure, which gave him an unshakable place and aim:

“What stone wall? Why of course, the laws of nature, the deductions of natural science, mathematics. As soon as they prove to you, for instance, that you are descended from a monkey, then it is no use scowling, accept it for a fact … [...] … for twice two is a law of mathematics. Just try refuting it.”

It would take Orwellian dictatorship to put 2+2=4 in doubt again, but the man in the underground doesn’t, as a rule, stick to his own advice, and he curses and rants against the laws he cannot change, claiming that will give him a distinctive identity:

“He will launch a curse upon the world, and as only man can curse (it is his privilege, the primary distinction between him and other animals), maybe by his curse alone he will attain his object - that is, convince himself that he is a man and not a piano-key!”

He might of course just have proven that he is a piano-key that is capable of cursing, and he knows about the inconsistencies of his arguments. They follow him like a thread through all his interactions with other human beings.

He craves a distinguished position in society, but only manages to show superiority by humiliating and despising the company he seeks, and by subsequently falling into passionate remorse and emotional crisis. He can’t be part of a group on equal terms because he wants to rise above it intellectually while feeling inferior to it on a psychological level.

His relationship to women builds on the same oxymoron of romantic idealisation and disgust for reality. He despises women for giving the pleasure he craves. With the prostitute Liza, he has his final breakdown, losing all inhibitions and all sense of shame, pride and dignity. While seeing her helpless situation, her position as a victim of the patriarchal, sexually repressed and morally bigoted society, he still abhors the fact that she has been “used” like an object by other men, and he can’t consider her a subject, an individual, a human with a future anymore, once she has been sexually active with other men.

This is so common, so universal, so deeply felt in most sexually repressive, patriarchal societies: men force women to be sexually dependent, either within marriage or outside it, and then they blame them for not being pure anymore. As if purity and chastity have to be virtues. Once that ancient oxymoron is erased from sexual and religious education, we might see some real change. Consent between grown-ups would be a good commandment for sexual behaviour, but it would seriously shake the foundation of many marriages. It would force many men to be considering ways beyond physical and societal power to attract and keep the devotion of a woman. That sounds like work, and like having to leave the egomaniac bubble. Our man from the underground wouldn’t be up to it. So he will fail, and continue to ensnare himself in a frustrating grey zone between desire and shame.

Just like natural laws stay natural laws, whether you like them or not, sexuality will be there, whether you can deal with it or not.

Our protagonist can’t obviously, like so many other young men brought up in a confused state of mind, with pride and honour as a guideline, and sexual repression and misogyny taught from early childhood, caught in a modern world that offers too many different lifestyles for them to be able to choose, and too few dogmatic guidelines to stick to. Being instinctively egomaniac, their antisocial behaviour falls flat in a group and in a democratic environment, and they compensate the vacuum in their mind with illogical, yet powerful rants!

Don’t underestimate the danger of the voices from the underground. Dostoyevsky masterfully depicts the scary profile of a lost person, overlooked and ridiculed for his deficiencies, yet with enough anger in his heart to lash out, seemingly randomly and spontaneously. We need to have pity, and show respect, and care for those young people caught between modernity and patriarchy, to open our arms and integrate them as best we can. We can’t afford to let them rant in shame and frustration. There must be a place for them to fill “over the ground”, but they won’t take the first step to integrate - being emotionally too unstable.

Give those misfits a place at the table, and they won’t have to shout from the underground, they won’t have to insult women, they won’t have to engage in meaningless, yet deadly duels to save their face.

Give them a face. Like Dostoyevsky gave them a voice -from the underground.
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Reading Progress

July 2, 2017 – Started Reading
July 2, 2017 – Shelved
July 2, 2017 – Shelved as: 1001-books-to-read-before-you-die
July 2, 2017 –
page 10
7.35% ""I want to tell you, gentlemen, whether you care to hear it or not, why I could not even become an insect."

Well that sentence is just perfect - and very much reminiscent of a contemporary Russian writer. Pelevin is still pondering on people's capacity to be good insects - or not, as the case may be."
July 5, 2017 – Shelved as: favorites
July 5, 2017 – Shelved as: so-good-it-hurts
July 5, 2017 – Shelved as: subterranean
July 5, 2017 – Shelved as: unforgettable
July 5, 2017 – Finished Reading
October 27, 2017 – Shelved as: dostoyevsky

Comments Showing 1-42 of 42 (42 new)

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message 1: by 'Izzat (new)

'Izzat Radzi Brilliant review Lisa!


Lisa 'Izzat wrote: "Brilliant review Lisa!"

Thanks, 'Izzat!


Lisa Ahmed wrote: "Nice review - it seems we differ on our evaluation of this book, nevertheless I enjoyed reading your impressions!"

That is what GR is for, and what I love most about it, Ahmed, to exchange and compare notes on reading experience, and to have checks and balances- to see that no position (especially not my own) is absolute and irrefutable.

I work with teenagers, and am quite familiar with the kind of inconsistent bravado and self-pity exposed in Dostoyevsky's masterpiece. It might have given me a sense of patience with his rants - knowing where they come from. I am fully aware that my idealistic hope to unite against hatred and narrow-minded arrogance (which is based on insecurity and need for attention) won't be successful on a big scale, but I refuse to stop trying nonetheless. Most people manage to leave the teenage angst behind, if treated with respect and given a face.


Lisa Jean-Paul wrote: "Excellent review, Lisa. You moved it up the ladder of my to-read-list!"

Thank you so much, Jean-Paul! You will find it brilliantly written and erudite in its analysis, - but brace yourself for a caricature of a fictional Strindberg, going on and on about his own sufferings and lack of recognition by an unfair environment :-) I more than once thought about our discussions regarding that brilliant, yet purely negative spirit while reading Dostoyevsky's take on the type!


Lisa Jean-Paul wrote: "Lisa wrote: "Jean-Paul wrote: "Excellent review, Lisa. You moved it up the ladder of my to-read-list!"

Thank you so much, Jean-Paul! You will find it brilliantly written and erudite in its analysi..."


Oh yes - that was what I found hardest to stomach as well! I just couldn't accept his premise that he was intellectually superior to any woman - based solely on his gender. The Liza in this story faces the same kind of brutal rejection, as do people around the world even today. As some liberal, open societies seem to move backwards in that respect at the moment, reading Dostoyevsky made me feel it is still worth fighting for gender equality (and respect) - always and especially where it has been vital to society for a long time. We can't rest on our laurels - then they disappear.


message 6: by Fionnuala (last edited Jul 05, 2017 03:45AM) (new)

Fionnuala Just like natural laws stay natural laws, whether you like them or not, sexuality will be there, whether you can deal with it or not.

And what efforts there have been throughout the ages to deny it, mask it, prohibit it, exploit it, commit crimes against it, commit crimes because of it - but worst of all, regard it as the domain of only one half of the population!
Great review, Lisa. All of your points, including the one about sexuality, ring true for Crime and Punishnent too.
And doesn't D draw us in as few writers know how to? Even when his main characters do hateful things, still D makes them likeable. There's a subtle non-judgement on D's part that helps us in turn not to jump at judgement. Or at least that's my impression from C&P.


message 7: by Dolors (new)

Dolors Magnificent analysis of this famous anti-hero, Lisa! I most enjoyed your translation of the 19thC terms into modern days and your insights on the underground man in the context of patriarchy.


Adina (way behind on reviews, some notifications) Fabulous review, Lisa. I particularly liked when you wrote about the angry men from the Internet. I did not see the similarities when I read this novel but now i do. i admit that i lost my patience with the character's rants at some point (quite early). Maybe if i had your background I would have been more understanding.


message 9: by Ken (new) - added it

Ken Never thought of angry men in Mama's basement as "Underground Men," but Dosty would get a chuckle, I'm sure. The rest of us living with it? Not so funny. Nice review!


message 10: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Fionnuala wrote: "Just like natural laws stay natural laws, whether you like them or not, sexuality will be there, whether you can deal with it or not.

And what efforts there have been throughout the ages to deny i..."


Crime and Punishment is up next, Fionnuala! This was the "warm up"! I agree that D has a magic power of making his character plausible, and my feelings moved between pity and annoyance all the time. Amazing gift to be able to create interest in negative characters!


message 11: by Mo (new) - added it

Mo Mo Thank you, Lisa for the lovely review. Actually, This is going to be my next read. Is it on par with Crime And Punishment and Brothers Karamazov?


message 12: by Lisa (last edited Jul 05, 2017 06:18AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Dolors wrote: "Magnificent analysis of this famous anti-hero, Lisa! I most enjoyed your translation of the 19thC terms into modern days and your insights on the underground man in the context of patriarchy."

Thank you, Dolors! I struggle to accept the survival of the ideas of patriarchy in my modern, liberal society, and the ease with which young people adopt misogyny as a way to "honour family tradition" - very common in far right Swedish politics, as well as in almost all monotheistic religious confessions. And if you speak up against it, they call on their rights (as men - to dominate their women?) and claim to be victims of "liberal aggression". Unfortunately, many women support misogyny as well, and argue that complaining about patriarchal behaviour is "not being able to take a compliment on your looks". Sweden 2017.


Seemita Splendid deconstruction of this dynamite of a book, Lisa! D really does get down and picks the dirt for us to see our reflection, doesn't he? This was first Dostoyevsky and I never looked back; of course, he leaves no choice.


message 14: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Adina wrote: "Fabulous review, Lisa. I particularly liked when you wrote about the angry men from the Internet. I did not see the similarities when I read this novel but now i do. i admit that i lost my patience..."

Thanks, Adina! I lost patience, too, but kept going, repeating the mantra I learned some years ago, teaching a multitude of teenagers from different cultural, national and religious backgrounds Social Studies.

One of many anecdotes from that time:

Standing in a classroom with a 14-year-old adolescent, at least a head taller than myself, and hearing him yell: "It is a proven fact that men are physically and mentally stronger than women!" I literally felt my knees wobble. The masculine, physical strength can't be disputed at that moment - I am rather petite - and I do not want to intellectually humiliate a young man in front of a class either, for many reasons - compassion being one, and his parents being the other very strong reason. If you deconstruct the worldview of such a boy, his parents will attack the school, using the vocabulary that democracies thought they owned: freedom of speech, rights to cultural and religious heritage, pluralism of opinions etc. At the same time, you can't let it go either, as there are many young girls in the classroom, whose rights you have to protect as well. How to solve it? By talking, looking them in the eye, taking them seriously, showing the other side of the medal, working on their understanding of different perspectives and explaining that individual freedom has to end where other people's rights start.

You learn that the "underground man" is more common than expected. And in the end, this particular boy loved history, and became very good at it. When I met his parents later, the first thing his father said to me (his wife standing next to him), was: "Ah, I can see why my son loves history. You are a very beautiful teacher!"
And I had thought I had made a case for intellectual equality...


message 15: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Ken wrote: "Never thought of angry men in Mama's basement as "Underground Men," but Dosty would get a chuckle, I'm sure. The rest of us living with it? Not so funny. Nice review!"

I agree, Ken! It is not so funny to live with it. I get livid whenever I read the news at the moment. It physically hurts me to see where we are heading. But it consoled me to read this perfect piece of literature telling the story again - but outside our specific historical framework, with a different backdrop. It put my pain into perspective, and somehow, that always helps me and is part of why I read.


message 16: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Mohamad wrote: "Thank you, Lisa for the lovely review. Actually, This is going to be my next read. Is it on par with Crime And Punishment and Brothers Karamazov?"

Thank you, Mohamad! As for your question: I can't tell yet - I am just starting my Dostoyevsky adventure. It made me eager to move on, and Crime and Punishment is already on my table, ready to go!


message 17: by Neil (new) - rated it 4 stars

Neil I love this review!


message 18: by Neil (new) - rated it 4 stars

Neil (My 2 cents): Underground and Idiot are the funniest of Dostoevsky's novels and still hold up today.

Parts of C&P and Karamazov were excellent but overall they were kinda boring.

To be fair, I read those books while I was reading Joseph Frank's bio, and Frank made these books sound like the greatest thing I would ever read, so I'm thinking my expectations were set too high.


message 19: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Seemita wrote: "Splendid deconstruction of this dynamite of a book, Lisa! D really does get down and picks the dirt for us to see our reflection, doesn't he? This was first Dostoyevsky and I never looked back; of ..."

Thank you, Seemita! He does indeed hold up a crystal clear mirror, showing the dirt in detail. Being a Dostoyevsky novice, I was astonished at the modern narrative style. I can see why he influenced whole generations of writers.


message 20: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Neil wrote: "(My 2 cents): Underground and Idiot are the funniest of Dostoevsky's novels and still hold up today.

Parts of C&P and Karamazov were excellent but overall they were kinda boring.

To be fair, I ..."


I am a bit worried that I might find those two novels too heavy on theology. I am a bit allergic to Christian panegyrics and saintly characters who love to show off suffering and "sacrificial chastity" centre stage and steal the show from real humans with sound and natural impulses. I am just listing my prejudices here, as I haven't read them yet, but I will do so soon, and see what I think. Notes from the Underground had surprise value for me, as I didn't have too high expectations when starting. I just loved the way it took me off guard.


message 21: by Ray (new) - rated it 3 stars

Ray +1 for panegyrics

I was impressed by Crime & Punishment and The Devils but have been less keen on other Mr D books. I have read this one but do not really recall it. Me rather than him I suspect.


message 22: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Ray wrote: "+1 for panegyrics

I was impressed by Crime & Punishment and The Devils but have been less keen on other Mr D books. I have read this one but do not really recall it. Me rather than him I suspect."


I will be starting Crime and Punishment now, and I am quite excited to find out if it resonates with me or not. I was very impressed with the narrative style in this one, so I am positive at the starting block.


message 23: by Eleanor (new)

Eleanor A wonderful review Lisa - interesting and thought-provoking.


message 24: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Eleanor wrote: "A wonderful review Lisa - interesting and thought-provoking."

Thank you so much, Eleanor!


message 25: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Neil wrote: "I love this review!"

Thanks, Neil!


message 26: by Marc (new) - rated it 3 stars

Marc I think your review sets a standard, Lisa!


message 27: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Marc wrote: "I think your review sets a standard, Lisa!"

Thank you, Marc!


message 28: by John (new)

John Raven I came here cause of Hollywood Undead album Notes from Underground


message 29: by Dimitri (new)

Dimitri I should read this by priority. To gaze into my own abyss.


message 30: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Dimitri wrote: "I should read this by priority. To gaze into my own abyss."

You'll find an abyss to gaze at there, Dimitri! I promise!


message 31: by Glenn (last edited Oct 28, 2017 07:39AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Glenn Russell Great review, Lisa! In a way the underground man reminded me of Yefim, the hack writer in the comic novel The Fur Coat after he received news that his hat will be made of tomcat. Just goes to show in the Russian culture, and perhaps many other modern cultures, the underground man character lurks just beneath the surface.


message 32: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Glenn wrote: "Great review, Lisa! In a way the underground man reminded me of Yefim, the hack writer in the comic novel The Fur Coat after he received news that his hat will be made of tomcat. Just goes to show ..."

Thank you, Glenn! I believe you are right. There are so many underground men lurking in most societies. It becomes dangerous ehen they decide to act pn their hatred. As a teacher, I work to keep as many kids as possible above ground and engaged constructively with their environment& but there are so many factors playing into human development...


message 33: by Ivana (new)

Ivana Books Are Magic lovely review. I read this one a long time ago, but I remember it pretty well.


message 34: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa Ivana wrote: "lovely review. I read this one a long time ago, but I remember it pretty well."

It was my starting point with Dostoevsky, and I see so many things in it after reading the others that I missed in this one the first time around.


chris zeng wow, im sweating as im reading this. good review!! 5/5


message 36: by Lisa (new) - rated it 5 stars

Lisa chris wrote: "wow, im sweating as im reading this. good review!! 5/5"

Thanks, Chris!


Muslim Lisa I don’t think the subjugation of women by men is a message Dostoevsky is really trying to counter at all. His critique of modern civilization falsely claiming everything could be broken down into 2+2 = 4 could very easily be applied to your notion that “purity and virtue don’t have to be values”. I think this is much more true to the spirit of Dostoyevsky’s writing. We modern “woke” people claim to have discovered that ideas of morality almost every single human society took for granted are useless and with science we know better. But science having sooooo little to say about morality is an inseparable part of Dostoevsky’s thought. I certainly do level the charge of assuming life can be broken down into 2+2 = 4 against you.


message 38: by Fer (new) - rated it 5 stars

Fer Prz When I read a book, I usually wait until I'm done and posted my review to look at what people thought. Your reviews are always a treat.

If I'm not mistaken you mentioned you're a teacher? I would've loved to have taken an English class lectured by you. Not only for your ability to interpret literate and explain it but your descriptive sentneces and language are superb.

There are many goodread users that write a whole lot of self indulging things to draw attention but not you my dear colleague.


Gus  Abstract At times, you sounded like the Underground Woman here.


message 40: by Ram (new)

Ram Excellent review!!!


message 41: by Moyoi (new) - added it

Moyoi I believe you failed to consider how natural law would not allow for promiscuity among women


message 42: by Moyoi (new) - added it

Moyoi Postulating that the Underground Man rejecting the fatalistic/Darwinistic 2+2=4 view as some sort of cope due to his own innate biological failings simply doesn't make any sense and if anything, is opposed to your own feminist worldview.

How would the Underground Man, someone demonstrated to have eloquence and erudition be a biologically determined genetic failure? It's clear that all his blunders in his life were not as simple as two plus two being four, but rather deeply contemplated decisions made due to a particular mind incompatible with society; you could say that this can still be reduced down to biology, but I would argue that it's something much more transcendental than an animal's desire to eat and copulate, not that any of this matters since you're a feminist who believes in blank slatism.

Also, to think that Dostoevsky was alluding to anything relating to feminism and "sexually repressive, patriarchal societies" is laughable. The idea there is clearly that the floundering oscillations of the Underground Man lead him to debase himself by genuflecting before a prostitute. You people somehow manage to inject your intellectually defunct worldview into anything you consume, quite philistine methinks.

P.S. As for your other feminist hang-ups, I think those have been thoroughly refuted by reality and if you choose not to see it, that is not my fault.


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