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arbara Burns talks to Claudia Dellacasa, whose book Italo Calvino and Japan: A Journey
through the Shallow Depths of Signs was published on Open Access this summer in
Legendaʼs Italian Perspectives series.
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t o alvino (1923-85) was a postmodernist talian author who enjoyed international
acclaim for his work which was translated into many languages. is connections with the
avant-garde literary scene in aris are well known, but your book focuses on the effect of a
two-week visit he made to apan in 1976. Why did alvino travel to apan, and in what
ways was his brief encounter with this country so important for his development as a
writer?
. al
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s mple answer is that alvino was invited by the apan oundation to visit the
country in a period of his life when he was residing in aris and was at something of a
creative standstill after the publication of l castello dei destini incrociati [The astle of
rossed estinies] in 1973. e had already achieved national and international recognition
— l barone rampante [The aron in the Trees] had been published in 1957 and e città
invisibili [ nvisible ities] in 1972, for example — but he was not yet the author of Se una
notte d inverno un viaggiatore [ f on a Winter s ight a Traveler] and alomar [ r alomar],
two of his masterpieces that most bear the mark of apanese inspiration, as argue in my
book.
. he i
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laudia Dellacasa
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n apan he visited okyo, yoto, ikkō and ara, attended a meeting at the ihon- taria
yoto- aikan, and one at the talian ultural nstitute of okyo. e also met important
apanese translators and authors, such as e enzaburō ( obel rize in literature in 1994)
and be ōbō, potentially as an emissary of inaudi on the lookout for interesting authors
to be translated into talian. o here we have alvino, an eminent intellectual figure, writer
and cultural commentator whose prestige had already crossed international borders,
spending two weeks experiencing cultural venues and tourist attractions, and engaging
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with a oundation for the promotion of international cultural exchange between apan and
the rest of the world.
ut to think that those two weeks are the only justification for alvinoʼs interest in apan
would be to underestimate his intellectual vivacity. n fact, alvino had already been
reading apanese novels and uddhist texts, as the volumes in his personal library show.
hese books, and the travel experience itself, resonated with a way of looking at the world
that alvino had been gravitating towards for decades: a view of landscape as a space
where human and non-human beings may possibly interact in harmonious, nonhierarchical ways; a view of the written (verbal) and the unwritten (non-verbal) world as
illuminating one another; and, crucially, a view of time as simultaneously linear and circular
and as a category that is transcended the more one tries to circumscribe it through limited
logical tools. ll of this brings us back to the point that focussing on alvinoʼs travels as
only happening during those two weeks spent bodily in apan is reductive: he reflects
afterwards on how time can expand and even evaporate, and we all know that lifechanging experiences exceed the limits of material events.
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This is a picture taken during Calvinoʼs meeting at the Nihon-Itaria Kyoto-Kaikan in
ovember 1976. I wish to thank Prof. Amano Kei and the Kaikan for granting me permission
to use this and other photos, which also feature in my book.
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ow did you become interested in alvino, and especially in the apanese influences
on his work?
. started working on alvino as an undergraduate at a apienza University of ome,
when examined e città invisibili for my thesis, highlighting the strategies through
which alvino constructs a suspended temporality in the extremely poetic atmosphere of
.
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the novel. or my thesis, looked at another book by alvino, l barone rampante. n
addition to pursuing my interest in the novelʼs temporal dimension, investigated the
botanical exactitude of this work, whose main character climbs up a holm oak one day in
his youth and then decides to spend his entire life in trees. his made me realise that
could bring together my ecological interests, which have cultivated since was a child
thanks to my family, and my literary and linguistic research.
While time had been central in my linguistic analyses up to that point, space became more
and more relevant from then on. nd here mean space as both an environmental and a
geographical category. n my h project, looked at how alvinoʼs contact with apanese
culture – gardens and temples in particular – engendered a decentralisation of his Western
point of view (a geographical and cultural decentralisation), which in turn challenged the
centrality of the human in the surrounding world (in other words, a post-human
perspective shift). ut my research began, as any process does, with more questions than
answers – questions that first arose as was helping digitise the catalogue of alvinoʼs
personal books, on which rof. aura i icola ( a apienza) has worked for many years.
then noticed that alvino had an entire shelf dedicated to apanese literature, with around
sixty volumes of talian, nglish, rench, and panish translations of novels and short
stories by be, kutagawa, ndō, awabata, ishima, atsume, e, and anizaki, among
others. nd he also owned several uddhist texts, placed on a different shelf. started
asking myself why hadnʼt even imagined that was possible, subsequently found out about
his travels, and the rest came gradually with my research, which the rts and umanities
esearch ouncil generously supported at the University of urham, where was
supervised by rof. atrin Wehling- iorgi.
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picture of the Sala Italo Calvino, within the area ‘Biblioteca del Novecento letterario
italiano Enrico Falquiʼ at the Biblioteca Nazionale Centrale di Roma. This room reproduces
different environments of Calvinoʼs penthouse at Campo Marzio in Rome, which has now
been sold, and hosts all the books that used to be in his library – including the Japanese
shelves!
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subtitle of your book, ourney through the Shallow epths of Signs, may seem
rather enigmatic to the uninitiated reader. an you explain this for us?
. he
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alvinoʼs Japanese experience, and my analysis of it, follows closely the textual
reading of Japan that Roland Barthes elaborated a few years earlier, in his LʼEmpire des
signes [Empire of Signs]. Both Barthes and Calvino are semiotic travellers in Japan: not
quite explorers who move toward the risk of the unknown, but not really tourists, who are
usually attracted by the security of pure cliché. Calvinoʼs interest in semiotics – perhaps
less pronounced than Barthesʼs, but still relevant – allows him to recognise that if, in any
cultural context, everything can be read as a sign, and if the surface of things should be
understood as a tool to conceal the conventional nature of every form of expression, in Zen
culture this dynamic is almost reversed from within. In Zen arts and rituals, forms are made
central so as to lay bare the conventionality of forms themselves, and invite the practitioner
to play with them and realise that there is no further depth to be looked for.
CD. C
his is a very refreshing approach for a Western mind, as it implies a fundamental
challenge to the hypocrisy of cultural constructions that are ideologically presented as
natural and unavoidable, while they are in fact deeply artificial. When artificiality and
convention are openly embraced, as they are in many Zen cultural forms (think of the
highly ritualised tea ceremony, for example), it is possible to appreciate that there is no
need to go further in search of deeper meanings, as everything is on the surface, and
every signʼs depth is actually shallow. In Palomar Calvino will write, in my opinion
influenced by Zen, that:
T
Solo dopo aver conosciuto la superficie delle cose […] ci si può spingere a cercare quel che
cʼè sotto. Ma la superficie delle cose è inesauribile
[It is only after you have come to know the surface of things […] that you can venture to
seek what is underneath. But the surface of things is inexhaustible.]
realise this view of superficiality and depth can be puzzling for many readers, given that
we are accustomed to link negative connotations to the former, and positive to the latter.
ut this is in line with centuries-old notions of sian philosophies, such as that of
emptiness, void, vacuity (śūnyatā).
mptiness is another theme deal with, and again, to be empty is not a bad thing. hings
are empty in the sense that they do not have autonomous reality, but exist thanks to, in
relation with, depending on other things. urfaces, then, take on the positive role of
creating such relations, as opposed to modes of thinking that posit isolated, solipsistic, alltoo-deep selves. see alomar himself as empty, because he makes himself so receptive
to inner and outer phenomena. hey belong to an all-encompassing universe of signs, in
which what alvino calls ‘ he Written World and the Unwritten Worldʼ are part of the same
spectrum.
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nother picture from the meeting at the Nihon-Itaria Kyoto-Kaikan in November 1976.
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. alvinoʼs interest in Zen Buddhism followed in the wake of the increasing appeal during
the 1960s of non-Western philosophies in Europe and America. Did Zen represent for him a
turning away from engagement with Eurocentric preoccupations and politics, in particular
from his former Marxist convictions?
BB C
. his is a very important point; thank you for bringing it up. In part itʼs true that when
Calvino visited Japan in the 1970s, he was no longer the committed Communist intellectual
he had been in the 1940s and 1950s. He had resigned from the Italian Communist Party in
1957, as a reaction to the post-Stalinist invasion of Hungary, and after that had grown
gradually disillusioned with the degenerations of Soviet totalitarianism. While aware of this
detachment, I was still quite surprised in reading certain reflections, linked in different ways
to Japan, where Calvino expresses rather conservative views. For example, in his review in
la Repubblica of Kurosawaʼs film Kagemusha, he seems to see social and political
hierarchies as unavoidable, while in ‘Il rovescio del sublimeʼ [‘The Obverse of the Sublimeʼ],
in the Japanese section of Collezione di sabbia [Collection of Sand], he accepts economic
inequalities as material conditions necessary for attaining aesthetic peaks, including those
of the imperial gardens he much appreciates.
CD T
o it can be said that alvinoʼs semiotic reading of apan tends to be a non-ideological
one, consistent with his gradually increasing reaction to his past political activism. t the
same time, however, the very semiotic reflections that are prompted by a ‘non-politicalʼ
approach to apan allow him to challenge many Western philosophical rigidities. nd what
is more political than questioning the centrality of (male) human beings and considering
them as entangled in a larger, interconnected world? he relational ontology that follows,
and that resonates with many recent environmental and scientific discourses ( ʼm thinking
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out ovelliʼs interpretation of quantum mechanics, in particular, which hinges upon
relations), is forward-looking enough for me to excuse alvinoʼs sporadically lessprogressive politics.
. id alvino make any attempt to learn the apanese language, or was he more
interested in non-verbal means of communicating cultural meaning?
. alvino did not speak apanese, nor was he particularly aware of basic pronunciation
rules of the language. or example, Wada adahiko (now one of alvinoʼs major apanese
translators and at the time one of the young students who accompanied the writer during
his visits around yoto) remembers that alvino never failed to remark upon the number of
pachinko halls they encountered in yoto, but he always misread the signs in rōmaji
characters, italianising as /paˈkɪŋko/ what should be pronounced in apanese as /paˈtʃɪŋko/.
n one hand, then, alvinoʼs travels happen at an a- (pre? post?) linguistic level, which
itself resonates with the overcoming of language at the core of uddhist meditation and in
many of the apanese novels he had the opportunity to read. n the other hand, this
generates the awareness that reality itself can be read visually, in the absence of verbal
handholds. he so-called written world (the world of alphabetic expression) thus loses its
mastery over the unwritten world (the world of material expression), and the latter is even
more deeply appreciated in its semiotic potential. t is thus thanks to the neutral, empty
space of an unknown language – and, what is more, an ideographic one – that alvino
develops his reading of gardens as poems (and vice-versa), in what are some of his most
interesting reflections that could be filed under the category of biosemiotics.
. ave you had the opportunity to travel to apan yourself? f so, were you able to follow
in alvinoʼs footsteps, and what insights did your visit give you into the cultural aspects
you grapple with in your book?
. did, yes, thanks to the
nternational lacement cheme, and still remember
that as one of the best experiences of my academic (and personal) adventure. spent
three months in the spring of 2019 at the ichibunken in yoto, which is the nternational
esearch entre for apanese tudies, and made a point of reaching out to as many
people as possible who might have had contacts with alvino back in 1976 and of visiting
all the temples and gardens alvino wrote about. his gave me an excuse to spend a lot of
time around the enchanting city of yoto, and to travel throughout central apan as well, up
to the thermal town of ikkō (from which alvino sent a postcard to fellow writer iorgio
anganelli) and to the old capital ara. also had some very nice conversations with Wada
adahiko, whom have already mentioned, and mano ei, now also a professor (then a
student) of talian who met alvino and guided him around yoto. mano still had the
bright orange eetle in which he drove alvino through the commercial areas of the city,
and you can just imagine my excitement when he offered me a ride, which meant sitting on
the very seat on which ‘myʼ author had sat more than 40 years before! What is more, that
afternoon was going to visit the yōan Zen temple and garden, which alvino describes in
beautiful terms in a couple of texts. couldnʼt help but have that garden on the cover of my
book!
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ere I was visiting the Byōdō-in Temple in Uji, in Kyoto prefecture, in the spring of 2019: I
timed my research trip in order to enjoy the hanami.
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s there a book or story by alvino in nglish translation which you would recommend
to readers as a good introduction to his work?
. y favourite alvino books of all time are l barone rampante and arcovaldo, perhaps
because of their ecological resonances. hey are very good books for young readers, as
well. ut if were to recommend a book that is more connected to my own research,
would probably suggest alomar. ʼm sure any reader would notice a somewhat meditative
posture there, despite the initial declaration by the main character of his inability to
contemplate. he book develops, in my opinion, as a gradual and not-always-patient
.
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appreciation of the continuity between micro and macro, self and cosmos, which has a lot
to do with what I have analysed in my book and tried to give a sense of here.
. he last few years have involved a lot of interesting moves for you, from Rome to
Durham to Tübingen to Dublin and then to the University of Glasgow where youʼve recently
taken up a lectureship. How has this wealth of experience affected your perspective, and
how are you finding Scotland?
BB T
or someone who works in comparative literature and is curious about the environment
in all its different forms, the last few years have been incredibly rewarding: thanks to many
friends made in these places and with the help of my bike (or bikes, as one was actually
stolen), managed to explore many different landscapes, both human and non-human –
though the two are always interconnected – and to learn to decipher, if you like
semiotically, different cultures. gain, the content and the context of my research went
hand in hand. f course, that was also emotionally and logistically taxing, and ʼm now
enjoying the stability of a permanent job in a city love a little more every day. nd, just as
alvino in the 1980s, after living in anremo, urin, and aris, managed to have his
complete library (the one helped catalogue) in his penthouse at ampo arzio in ome,
am finally relieved to have all my books together in one place! alvino, as it happens, has a
shelf of his own.
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