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"I actually do think Wikipedia is an amazing thing. It is the first place I go when I'm looking for knowledge. Or when I want to create some." -- Stephen Colbert.

The History Stack Exchange is supposed to be a high-brow place for people with an academic interest in history. As such, it's nonsense to allow answers based on low-quality non-peer reviewed sources like Wikipedia. The problems with Wikipedia are many and well-documented:

  • It contains numerous inconsistencies, lies by omission, and downright falsehoods.
  • Nothing on it is attributable to real authors. Writing "according to Joe Smith 'bla bla'" is materially different from writing "according to Wikipedia 'bla bla'" because Joe Smith is a real person and you can check their credentials.
  • Most significantly: Wikipedia articles change. One article may have been a good source at one point in time, but many years later, after the article was rewritten, it may now be terrible.

If you as an answerer on History Stack Exchange consider linking to Wikipedia to get your links-to-text ratio up, pretty please don't do it. Instead, check what Wikipedia references, read that reference, and reference that. If you don't have access to that reference or this is too much work, well then, tough luck, maybe order that reference or don't write an answer. As a reader of History Stack Exchange, I very much prefer no references at all over links to Wikipedia because then I know the author is "winging it".

If an outright ban is not possible, then perhaps warn answer writers: "You are linking to Wikipedia which is not a reliable source. Here is why Wikipedia is not reliable: ..."

Sources:

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    Can you please provide references to posts where you believe this is an actual problem? I'm seeing a lot of theoretical complaints here, but nothing concrete.
    – T.E.D. Mod
    Commented May 21, 2023 at 19:49
  • Can you please cite some examples of that? Otherwise perhaps you should delete your comment because it appears, to me, as a quite uncalled for ad hominem. Commented May 21, 2023 at 20:12
  • I can see where it might appear that way, but there are no examples because we eliminate them fairly vigorously. We don't want those people here.. I've known T.E.D for several years and I'd bet money that this was not ad hominem. This is a problem of the reverse commons - Sincere people who hold well intentioned opinions don't always recognize that others holding those opinions are reprehensible.
    – MCW Mod
    Commented May 21, 2023 at 20:48
  • Honestly, I have to say that doubt you because I don't see the connection between "anti-Wikipedia links" and "aberrant historical theories". :) Regardless, yes, I have many examples of answers in which Wikipedia links are an actual problem. One I read today was the straw that broke the camel's back so I posted this question. However, it is difficult to criticize peoples' free labour and I don't want to unduly incense fellow History SE users. So I have to ruminate on how to present bad Wikipedia-based answers without offending anyone. Commented May 21, 2023 at 21:16
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    @BjörnLindqvist - I'll delete that comment. If you're not interested in my experience as a moderator here, I won't force it on you. But you've now been asked by 2 different people for specific examples of WP references being a problem. If "citing examples" is as important to you say it is here in the comments, then I'm confident that an edit to this question with specific examples will be forthcoming.
    – T.E.D. Mod
    Commented May 21, 2023 at 21:52
  • Wikipedia articles have references themselves. No one can edit a Wikipedia article without any references. Otherwise, they will rejected.
    – user40948
    Commented Jun 17, 2023 at 9:06

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Normally I wait 24 hours for community response before I answer, but not in this case. I disagree with the premise of the question.

First, this question argues for a change without establishing that there is any evidence of a problem. The question would be stronger if supported by quantified evidence. What percentage of Wikipedia articles are inaccurate? What fraction are merely incomplete? What percentage are misinformation rather than legitimate disputes? Before I endorse any significant change to the culture of H:SE I'm going to want to understand that.

Second, the question is based on a false premise. Wikipedia has several quality control features that the question ignores. Well done Wikipedia pages have references. Poor quality Wikipedia pages have annotations that invite revisions. Revisions are subject to a feedback loop. I'm not sure how effective Wikipedia quality control is, but I'm comfortable that it is stronger than this question assumes. Ultimately though Wikipedia is a source and history is about assembling a narrative based on existing sources. The practice of history requires assembling a narrative that accounts for the most evidence and culls the least evidence. History is about understanding the flaws in the evidence. All sources (including Wikipedia) need to be examined for bias, for flaws, for omissions, and for context. If history were simply assembling sources like Legos, it wouldn't be very interesting, and it definitely wouldn't be about humanity. Different sources must be treated differently - Oral history is read differently than epigraphy, which is read differently than unreliable sources, which are read differently than references to unavailable primary sources. Banning a category of sources simply isn't the way I understand history to be practiced.

  • Yes, Wikipedia contains many inconsistencies, omissions and falsehoods. Like any other source. The number of people participating in many pre-modern battles exceeds the population of the participating countries. IIRC, a similar statistic was generated for the US civil war based on monument inscriptions. We have records that state that Edward II of England died on several different dates and that he lived long after those dates in exile. We have multiple records with multiple conflicting explanations for most historical phenomenon (the Great Depression, for example).

  • Many sources cannot be attributed to real authors. The books of the Christian Bible were probably not authored by the listed authors. The Federalist papers were not authored by a person named Publius.

  • Yes, Wikipedia articles change; many modern, internet based sources change (that is a feature, not a bug; science is a process, not a product) a well cited article will indicate the date of the citation.

If the real problem is not Wikipedia, but upvotes on substandard answers, then banning Wikipedia won't solve the problem. The problem is voting. voting is a very rough indicator of quality. I don't think many will defend voting, since it was discovered that Fastest Gun In the Internet was a relatively sure-fire way to build rep. Voting is flawed. The flaw has nothing to do with Wikipedia, it has to do with human psychology, and I don't propose to change that.

Just because we're working in text, which can fail to convey nuance, I want to hasten to point out that I'm glad you asked the question - I disagree with the conclusions, but I appreciate the fact that you raised the question, and I hope that others will weigh in to support, or to provide new, alternative perspectives.

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  • I'm not sure how you got from answers to questions. Clearly, people asking questions do not need to base their questions on authoritative sources, but people answering questions damn well should. I've seen multiple answers on History SE which are wrong or biased, but since they are full of blue links to Wikipedia they receive many upvotes and become impossible to do anything about. As I believe the goal of History SE is to be a high-quality source for history, I think it is absolutely appropriate to ban Wikipedia links. Commented May 21, 2023 at 17:58
  • Excellent point -thank you for clarifying. I've updated. You may wish to update the question to clarify the misunderstanding and then flag both comments for deletion.
    – MCW Mod
    Commented May 21, 2023 at 18:32
  • @BjörnLindqvist With above 900 reputation you are behaving like a new contributor. Even new users know it from the site tour that questions need sources as well. Guess what will happen when there isn't a link or quote in questions while in their body it says based on the facts in the site x...? The community will want sources.
    – user40948
    Commented Jun 17, 2023 at 9:04

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