Wikidata:Property proposal/date of the latest value change
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
date when the most recent value change took place
[edit]Originally proposed at Wikidata:Property proposal/Sports
Withdrawn
| Description | qualifier: when the most recent taken into account value change in the real world took place |
|---|---|
| Data type | Point in time |
| Domain | qualifier only |
| Example 1 | ⟨ Lionel Messi (Q615)   ⟩ total goals in career (P6509) ⟨ 6 ⟩of (P642) ⟨ FIFA World Cup (Q19317) ⟩start time (P580) ⟨ 16 June 2006 ⟩date of the latest value change Search ⟨ 26 June 2018 ⟩ retrieved (P813) ⟨ 13 March 2019 ⟩ |
| Example 2 | ⟨ Novak Djokovic (Q5812) ⟩ singles record (P564) ⟨ 846–176 ⟩start time (P580) ⟨ 20 July 2004 ⟩date of the latest value change Search ⟨ 27 January 2019 ⟩ retrieved (P813) ⟨ 10 March 2019 ⟩ |
| Example 3 | ⟨ Ulyana Kaysheva (Q4208775) ⟩ number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) ⟨ 31 ⟩of (P642) ⟨ Biathlon World Cup (Q855631) ⟩start time (P580) ⟨ 18 December 2015 ⟩date of the latest value change Search ⟨ 12 March 2019 ⟩ retrieved (P813) ⟨ 13 March 2019 ⟩ |
| Example 4 | ⟨ Leeds United F.C. (Q1128631) ⟩ number of matches played/races/starts (P1350) ⟨ 468 ⟩of (P642) ⟨ Premier League (Q9448) ⟩start time (P580) ⟨ 15 August 1992 ⟩date of the latest value change Search ⟨ 15 May 2004 ⟩ retrieved (P813) ⟨ 13 March 2019 ⟩ |
| Source | external reference, Wikipedia article, etc. |
| Planned use | mainly for explicit dating of the last matches or goals of active sportspeople; end time (P582) for retired ones |
| See also | point in time (P585), end time (P582) |
Motivation
[edit]This will allow us to get the exact date of the most recent match, race, goal, triple double of athlete by league. It is quite possible that this will also be useful for non-sports-related purposes. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 19:16, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
Oppose Existing properties (point in time (P585), end time (P582), start time (P580)) are sufficient David (talk) 07:32, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- So, which of these properties do you suggest to use instead of the proposed property? end time (P582) means "time an item ceases to exist or a statement stops being valid", but count of 6 for Messi's WC goals didn't cease to be valid at 26 June 2018. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 11:21, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Support I think this is a useful property to draw out nuance not offered by other qualifiers relating to time. end time (P582) and start time (P580)) refer to different points in time than the one proposed, and point in time (P585) qualifies the statement as pertaining to one point in time only. This property would have applications outside of the sports realm as well, e.g. when the hands of the Doomsday Clock (Q237488) move. Maybe change "date" in the property title to "time" to bring it in line with the other time-based qualifiers and allow it to be more flexible in what kind of values it can take? Also, I think it should be clarified that this property refers to the time the value was changed in the real world (e.g. when Messi scored his last goal in the World Cup) and not the time that the value was updated in Wikidata (e.g. when a person last manually changed the value of the statement). Otherwise it might sound too close to retrieved (P813) LesserJerome (talk) 11:27, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- Time? When will it be useful? A clarification to the real world is welcome, but I couldn’t think of it in English… Something with "most recent"? Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 11:41, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- By real world, I mean the actual thing we are describing and when that changed, and not simply when the value changed on Wikidata. "Date of latest value change" to me sounds like the last time someone changed the value in Wikidata, not the last time what this value represents changes i.e. the "real-world" value. LesserJerome (talk) 13:13, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- You are free to edit description or name of the proposed property.Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 13:31, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- By real world, I mean the actual thing we are describing and when that changed, and not simply when the value changed on Wikidata. "Date of latest value change" to me sounds like the last time someone changed the value in Wikidata, not the last time what this value represents changes i.e. the "real-world" value. LesserJerome (talk) 13:13, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- Time? When will it be useful? A clarification to the real world is welcome, but I couldn’t think of it in English… Something with "most recent"? Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 11:41, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
- We do not yet have a property to indicate the number of medals for Olympic delegation (Q26213387), but when this becomes possible, the proposed property will have to be used not to fix the date for retesting doping tests and redistributing medals, but to indicate chronologically the last Olympic sporting event (Q18536594), where the victory is in the account of the corresponding item.Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 07:10, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- I reformulated the description and the name of the property so that there is no confusion with retrieved (P813).Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 07:37, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose As far as I understand this is intended to be "date when the most recent possibility value change took place". I think we do not need to store this.--Jklamo (talk) 09:07, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Jklamo: The possibility of what? How should the date of the most recent Lionel Messi (Q615) goal at the FIFA World Cup (Q19317) without this property be indicated? Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 09:22, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- Using start time (P580) correctly as parameter of value. Your examples are not using start time (P580) correctly, as parameter of value of 6 goals scored it is not intended to indicate the time of fist goal (separate 1 value with appropriate start time (P580) is the solution).--Jklamo (talk) 09:55, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- Then it says that not only the discussing property is needed, but also another one for the first goals. Separate entries for the first goal, the last goal, etc. - this is the wrong decision. Somethink like date of the most recent component of value and date of the earliest component of value. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 11:40, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- If it was not true that on 16 June 2006 the player had by that point scored 6 goals, then start time (P580) can't say that date. It would be incorrect. The properties for start time (P580) and end time (P582) mean that the statement was true for the entire duration between those two dates. --Yair rand (talk) 03:41, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- Then it says that not only the discussing property is needed, but also another one for the first goals. Separate entries for the first goal, the last goal, etc. - this is the wrong decision. Somethink like date of the most recent component of value and date of the earliest component of value. Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 11:40, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- Using start time (P580) correctly as parameter of value. Your examples are not using start time (P580) correctly, as parameter of value of 6 goals scored it is not intended to indicate the time of fist goal (separate 1 value with appropriate start time (P580) is the solution).--Jklamo (talk) 09:55, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- @Jklamo: The possibility of what? How should the date of the most recent Lionel Messi (Q615) goal at the FIFA World Cup (Q19317) without this property be indicated? Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 09:22, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- Oppose. Proposal seems to be based on a misunderstanding of the current meaning of start time (P580)/end time (P582). --Yair rand (talk) 03:41, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
- OK, I withdraw my proposal. Disappointed that we were not corrected when discussing the use of total goals in career (P6509). I'll propose another date qualifers later.Сидик из ПТУ (talk) 07:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)