User talk:Susannaanas

Welcome to Wikidata, Susannaanas!

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Best regards!

Previous discussion was archived at User talk:Susannaanas/Archive 1 on 2016-06-09.

Hi,

As you may know, I correct a lot of labels typography. I'm curious about this revert Special:Diff/2217402125, could you tell me what it broke exactly? (I did the same correction on a lot of list, I hope nothing else is broken, also with the brand new default label, other things might broke).

Cheer,

Hi

These are external named resources, whose name may start with the word "list". The translations from the original language are usually not official, though. In the Wiki Loves Living Heritage project I have used the English Wikidata label as a page name for a page of that resource. When the page name matches the Wikidata label, the page is linked to the list of resources. It is of course not a very sustainable method as the labels can change. I usually change the page name to reflect the Wikidata label, but I am not able to start a page name with lowercase! And it should not be lowercase, because it is the name of a resource.

Working with resources whose names are "lists" is challenging in many ways. People tend to mix those with Wikipedia list articles, and the Wikipedia pages often do contain lists. It's a mess! If I could decide, I would terminate the "Wikimedia list article" type for items.

Cheers,

Hmm, I think I see but this is very wrong.

Especially as many proper names often start with a lowercase letter (and even more often in French, which make this edit Special:Diff/1774119357 very incorrect for instance).

And what about "mul" label? I fear it will break you system, you really need to fix it.

Yes, lots of thing to correct. However, this one is a proper name. :-) The one you referred to is copied exactly from the original: https://www.culture.gouv.fr/Thematiques/patrimoine-culturel-immateriel/Le-Patrimoine-culturel-immateriel/l-inventaire-national-du-patrimoine-culturel-immateriel

Cheers, Susanna

I get that Wikipedia/Wikidata conventions require it to be changed a bit and I can reflect the changes in the project pages.

I have not worked on the pages this year, I am just fixing them and seeing which problems are caused by the underlying data. And I have not given a thought to "mul" as it is very recent development. I am open to different solutions. // Susanna

Hi

I also made a translation page so that the labels of the items would be displayed in French. I noticed that WMFR is working on Living Heritage and it makes sense to display the pages well. There are intricacies in the translation mechanisms that are making combining Wikidata translations and content translation difficult. I hope that could be addressed in the future, but atm these subpages are needed. // Susanna

Yes, these pages are beautiful and really useful. And yes, it should be easier to create those.

Hei!

Huomasin, että olet ollut mukana Wikiproject Finlandissa, joten tuumailin, että osaisit ottaa seuraavaan kantaa, tai ainakin ohjata paremmin perillä olevalle.

Työskentelen Ylellä projektissa, jossa meillä on noussut tarve lisätä puuttuvia kaupunki- tai kunta-alueita ja -osia (esimerkiksi Box, Sipoo). Oikeastaan meitä kiinnostaa tällä hetkellä ensisijaisesti tilastolliset postinumeroalueet, mutta koska se on käsiteluokka, jota ei ole Wikidatassa sellaisenaan esitetty, näkisimme että nuo alueet sopisivat tietomalliin ja nykykäytäntöön paremmin.

Näetkö näiden lisäämisen osalta jotain esteitä? Osittain tämä menee yhteen Wikiprojectin "City districts and villages"-kohdan kanssa ja siinä puhutaan mm. Maanmittauslaitoksen kuntien ja sijaintialueiden tietojen importista. Onkohan tämä vielä aktiivisesti työn alla?

Hei!

Minusta lisääminen on ehdottoman kannatettavaa. Minulla itselläni ei ole ollut tarpeeksi aikaa jatkaa työtä. Olen tuonut osan kylistä ja erinäisiä maantieteellisiä kohteita, mutta niiden määrä on suuri ja työ vaatii yhdistämistä olemassaoleviin Wikidatakohteisiin. Aikaisempien heikkolaatuisten massatuontien takia Wikidatassa on huonosti kuvailtuja Suomessa sijaitsevia järviä ja muita paikkoja, jotka on kaikki kammattava läpi uusia kohteita luotaessa.

Kannattaa kysyä myös Wikimedia Suomen kiinnostusta yhteistyöhön https://fi.wikimedia.org/wiki/Yhteystiedot

Terveisin Susanna

Kiitos nopeasta vastauksesta ja Wikimedia Suomen vinkkaamisesta, täytyy olla heihin yhteydessä jossain välissä.

yt. Alexander

Dear Susannaanas,

I hope you are doing well,

I am Kholoud, a researcher at King's College London, and I am working on a project as part of my PhD research, in which I have developed a personalised recommender model that suggests Wikidata items for the editors based on their past edits. I am collaborating on this project with Elena Simperl and Miaojing Shi.

I am inviting you to a task-based study that will ask you to provide your judgments about the relevance of the items suggested by our model based on your previous edits.

Participation is completely voluntary, and your cooperation will enable us to evaluate the accuracy of the recommender system in suggesting relevant items to you. We will analyse the results anonymised, and they will be published in a research venue.

The experiment should take no more than 15 minutes, and it will be held next week.

If you agree to participate in this study, please either contact me at [email protected] or use this form https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfA1wfdBfCRlcG3WhDyc-V8lzgPNx3fDFCNXkyn4CSwahXZ_A/viewform?usp=sf_link

Then, I will contact you with the link to start the study.

For more information about my project, please read this post: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Kholoudsaa

In case you have further questions or require more information, don't hesitate to contact me through my mentioned email.

Thank you for considering taking part in this research.

Regards

Hi Susanna, I have seen that you created some of the wikidata entries of de:Immaterielles Kulturerbe in Österreich. e.g. The salute shooters of Wirling (Q113129710). This list and the Intangible cultural heritage in Austria will be part of a cooperation with the national UNESCO-commission in Austria in the context of WikiDaheim, the annual Austrian photo contest. The contest will start on July 1st. I have linked the entries in the list to the corresponding wikidata-entries (find the wikidata logo in the 5th column). I also use the wikidata entry on commons to access the description of the Intangible cultural heritage in German and English (in a bit weird way, using property described at URL (P973). What I found:

• not all rows do have an wikidata entry. Intangible cultural heritage should be complete and up-to-date on wikidata.
• property described at URL (P973) might be unstable, maybe there is a more stable way to store this information. Maybe (we at WMAT asked the local UNESCO commission, answer sill outstanding) there are urls that do not need changes when the title of the ICH changes and allow the automatic translation for supported languages (e.g. via an internal id). See c:Category:Axamer_Wampelerreiten for the marker that shows the links to both descriptions (retrieved via WD-id). I can change the marker template, in case the Wikidata storage of these references is changed.
• The German description is weird, Gesellschaftliche Praktik in Oberösterreich, aufgenommen 2011 (meaning: social practice in Upper Austria, incribed in 2011) which makes the elephant (Unesco) invisible. Anyhow, I would propose to move the information when inscribed to some start time (P580) qualifier (of heritage designation (P1435)?). I would do the same for all descriptions in all languages. Furthermore, Gesellschaftliche Praktik / social practice is more a state information (defined by unesco) than a description.
  • btw. there is a typo in social practice in Upper Austria, incribed in 2011, use Query to find all.

questions

• I feel inconvenient about using indigenous to (P2341) for the location info. Alternatively location (P276) or located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) could be used (additionally).

• I'm a bit surprised about using intangible cultural heritage status (P3259) to mark ICHs, I would have expected heritage designation (P1435) to be used for that purpose.
• I also surprised about using Inventory of Intangible Cultural Heritage in Austria (Q113085118) as value, as this is the container and not the single ICH.
• the distinction between Intangible Cultural Heritage (Q84036549) and intangible cultural heritage (Q59544) is unclear, I feel these two are the same and should be merged. Just stating not the same is not convincing.
• To sum up, I would expect to have heritage designation (P1435) = intangible cultural heritage (Q59544) as a marker on ICHs in wikidata

So there are two points. Can you help to complete the entries for Intangible cultural heritage in Austria in wikidata? And, can you think about my questions and help to create a more concise modelling in wikidata? (I'm well aware of the long lasting project and the valuable contributions by a lot of people, so I will not improve the modelling). Any help will be appreciated, would be fine if entries will be complete by 1st of July.

Feel free to move this thread to a more public page. best regards

Thank you for your comments. I will give a few responses here, and let's see how to forward.

First of all, I have prepared a guideline document for crafting these practices further Wiki Loves Living Heritage/How to import an inventory.

Comments to the first part of your message

• I would be very happy to complete the items of the inventory in Wikidata together with you. You can see how they are displayed in the Wiki Loves Living Heritage project here: Wiki Loves Living Heritage/Inventory of Intangible Cultural Heritage in Austria which is linked from this page https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Living_Heritage/Inventories
• I am not convinced myself about the use of described at URL (P973). I find it important that the heritage element page referenced is in the context of the inscription statement. In the context of that statement I have considered using described at URL (P973) or URL (P2699), but that would not easily become a practice. So resorting to the url in the source statement might be the best option. I am happy to discuss your thoughts on this.
• For the descriptions, I let you find the best way forward. I am not sure if I made them but if so, feel free to change.

Questions

• The properties for describing the geographic location are a problem. They might imply origin or state control, neither of which are desirable in the context of tradition. In the project, we wish to find better recommendations than the ones I have defined.
• The property intangible cultural heritage status (P3259) is now an agreed convention for ICH, and heritage designation (P1435) is used only for tangible heritage. I had no role in creating the property, and I think using the same property could have been possible. However, the distinction makes some things easier.
• I am advocation for the use of the inventory as the value for intangible cultural heritage status (P3259). It avoids complexity that comes from creating useless designation items. It is being used across a wide range of inventories, as you can see in the project.

I am happy to discuss these in a call. Drop me an email, and let's agree a time. I am available today already.

Cheers

Hi, I have to understand your answers. I was hoping that I could find someone who is responsible and will do the work in some way. Not to do it myself, not to do it together. My task is just to integrate the intangible heritage of Austria to our yearly photo competition WikiDaheim, not to provide the data. In the presence of maintained by WikiProject (P6104) = WikiProject Intangible Cultural Heritage (Q112898263) stating ownership I would not dare to do so.

In the meantime I've already found your documentation m:Wiki Loves Living Heritage/How to import an inventory, about which I appreciate the existence as well as the content of - it is more guidelines to modelling than I ever expected and found in other areas. I have to understand your documentation in more detail, I'm not confident with the tools you mention, before it makes sense to talk to you, I have to dive in in more detail. So better next week.

I am ok to do the import to the point where people with more knowledge about the items and the language could do the final touch. As I work on this project currently, I can have a look at it. I will be happy to continue next week. Have a good weekend! BR, Susanna

Hi Susannaanas, thanks. I can do the final touch. An open point still is, who is responsible for the maintainance in years to come, mainly for adding new items to wikidata.

Things have evolved and we now have a double photo competition, WikiDaheim in Austria integrating the intangible heritage of Austria and your European wide competition on Wiki Loves Living Heritage, where Austria could be part of. We as the chapter WMAT are in contact with the local UNESCO commission. Both competitions do interfere, but differ in dates, rules etc. Wiki Loves Living Heritage has just begun (5th June), surprisingly. The local UNESCO commission is now confronted with both competitions and a bit confused. We will clarify our proceedings in Austria next week. Our way to go at the moment is to merge both campaigns to satisfy both competitions and to integrate the harvested media for WikiDaheim and for Wiki Loves Living Heritage.

Nevertheless, completing wikidata has to continue.

I now got ID-based urls from the local UNESCO commission, which I would like to use instead of the current verbose urls set to described at URL (P973): as an example consider Specialities of individual pharmacies (Q113129803):

• there are two verbose urls https://www.unesco.at/kultur/immaterielles-kulturerbe/oesterreichisches-verzeichnis/detail/article/apothekeneigene-hausspezialitaeten & https://www.unesco.at/en/culture/intangible-cultural-heritage/national-inventory/news-1/article/specialities-of-individual-pharmacies
• these could be replaced by: https://www.unesco.at/de/index.php?id=180&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=201 & https://www.unesco.at/en/index.php?id=180&tx_news_pi1%5Bnews%5D=201

so the only ID that has to be stored in wikidata is 201 for this particular object. Both urls can be then constructed by url-formatters. This will also allow future enhancements with additional languages. Do you have a proposal what property to use / request for that ID? I feel this is only valid for the Austrian commission and their website. Using a separate property for this ID raises three questions: What to do with existing described at URL (P973)<nowiki>? How to store the title? How to extend this concept for other countries (out of my limited scope). This ID corresponds to Guía Digital del Patrimonio Cultural de Andalucía ID (P3318). Must be a separate property for Austrian IDs to allow multiple similar IDs for the same ICH in different countries. I can make a proposal for the new property.

@indigenous to (P2341): is it better to have country of origin (P495) instead of country (P17)? having Mining culture in Bleiberg (Q113129709) with indigenous to (P2341) with value Carinthia (Q37985)? Both value still do denote adminstrative entities. In the end ICHs are organized by administrative, and not be ethnographical entities. Putting the location info to various properties makes it much more difficult to write e.g. complete sparql statements. Just my feeling and opinion. We should have both, the country (P17) (also more than 1) for primary selection (necessary for technical reasons of timeout) and specific country of origin (P495). We could have indigenous to (P2341) but alongside with optional located in the administrative territorial entity (P131) / location (P276). Nevertheless anybody could easily add these administrative properties.

rest is easy to accept. I propose to have a zoom call next week when first clarification with local UNESCO commission are done. br --Herzi Pinki (talk) 11:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi, Herzi Pinki

There are indeed many questions and to me they sound solvable. Would you kindly send me email to agree on the call next week? I will start studying the data issues. I hope you find a good solution to the contest issue. The contest is arranged by the European Network of Focal Points for the UNESCO convention rather than the project, but they involve the same organizations. I regret the inconvenience it has caused you! –

Greetings! My project, the Wikidata:WikiProject IDEA would like to learn from yours. We'd like to create tabs at the top of our page like you have done on the Wikidata:WikiProject Built heritage. Any advice you can offer or tutorials/manuals you'd recommend? I'd be grateful for any tips!

~~~~

Greetings, your recent edits "adding the elements of the wiki inventory" have added some false information: country of origin (P495) as "Finland", which for the two items I have already checked, is definitely not true. Now, your edits are also adding useful and true information, but I would ask you to please refine your process so that you are not unnecessarily adding properties which must be deleted after you go through them. Thank you.

I am deeply sorry, I am about to manually edit and remove those that are incorrect.

And thank you, you seem to have fixed many of them already!

May I add one more thing: The officials whose inventory was imported, will start going through the items, looking at the descriptions, types, classes, translations, countries, locations etc. starting tomorrow. They may make mistakes and they are learning, but I have the impression that you and I already edited the most striking issues. Thank you for your patience!

Hello, an item that you have edited (and you are the only non-bot editor) is considered empty and will be deleted in 72 hours if it doesn't improve. Your automated cleaner.

Hello, an item that you have edited (and you are the only non-bot editor) is considered empty and will be deleted in 72 hours if it doesn't improve. Your automated cleaner.

Hi,

Sorry if I intrude, by looking at the pages linked to Museum of Brittany (Q3329701) (where I work right now), I stumble upon User:Susannaanas/Companies in Finland which is a strange dashboard (at least, the content is not what the title suggest). Maybe you would like to take a look at it?

Cheers,

Hi, how are you? :-)

It seems to me I was planning to make a dashboard for companies based on this but never did that. I could remove the page.

Cheers

Susanna

Hi! I managed to put together this page system and I was browsing Living Heritage from France. Have a look, let me know what you think: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Living_Heritage/National_Inventory_of_Intangible_Cultural_Heritage_in_France

Wow, that's amazing (both for surfacing the content and for the template, I didn't knew Listeria could do that!)

For the content, I already see that I have some labels in English to add and correct.

Superb! It works as it should then :-D

Greetings, what is the point of duplicating information about intangible cultural heritage into instance of (P31) when intangible cultural heritage status (P3259) was specifically created for this purpose? After your batches today - the same information is just duplicated twice in these items.

I am sorry to cause confusion, and I will manually remove redundant ones. I am in the process of importing all intangible heritage items. Please join the project at Wikidata:WikiProject Intangible Cultural Heritage/Imports or follow the discussion in Wikidata:Project chat#Looking for feedback on items about intangible heritage. –