Talk:Q21130185

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Autodescription — existing village of a former municipality in Finland (Q21130185)

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⟨existing village of a former municipality in Finland⟩ on wikidata tree visualisation (external tool)(depth=1)
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WikiProject Finland

Onkohan tämä nyt ihan logiikaltaaan loppuun mietitty ominaisuus? Itse kylät eivät ole mitenkään entisiää vaan ainoastaan ne kunnat, joiden alueella kylät sattuvat sijaitsemaan. Silloin itser kylä ei ole "historiallinen hallinnollinen alue" vaan useimmiten (pois lukien Luovutetut alueet) lähjes aina nykyinen hallinnollinen alue joka vain sattumalta kuuluu kuuluu johonkin historialliseen hallinnolliseen alueeleeseen luokassa "Suomen entiset kunnat". Joku paremmin wikidataa tunteva voisi miettiä tätä.Urjanhai (talk) 09:36, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

(The same could have been said in english as well, but let's begin in finnish first.)Urjanhai (talk) 09:36, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ping User:Stryn.Urjanhai (talk) 09:37, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mielestäni tässä on käsitteliinen virhe muuten kuin luovutetun alueen kylien osalta. Kyläthän eivät mitenkään ole entisiä vaan päin vastoin nykyisiä ja vain sattuvat kuulumaan jonkun entisen kunnan alueeseen sen ohella että ne samalla ovat nykyisiä kyliä jossain nykyisessä kunnassa. Silloin siis pitäisi olla määrittely "kuuluu historialliseen hallinnolliseen alueeseen" (onko sellaista?), jollaisia ovat Suomen entiset kunnat ja niistä kunkin kylän kohdalla joku entien kunta. Ennen kuin korjasin englanninkielistä määrittelyä se oli selkeästi virheellinen.--Urjanhai (talk) 12:23, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Eli määrittely "aluokka kohteelle historiallinen hallinnollinen alue" on yksinkertaisesti väärä muuten kuin luovutettujen alueiden osalta. --Urjanhai (talk) 12:24, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sen sijaan määrittely "kuuluu historialliseen hallinnolliseen alueeseen" olisi hyödyllinen ja tärkeä, mutta en nyt osaa kaivaa löytyykö sellaista tai miten sen voisi esittää. Jos sellainen löytyy, niin monet varmaan voisivat mielellään lisäillä niitä.--Urjanhai (talk) 12:31, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Summary in english: Items in this category are former administrative entities only in case of areas that were ceded to Soviet union after WW2. In the current state area of Finland the meaning of being in this categotry is: "a currently existing village that is situated in the area of some former municipality" or, more simply: "villages in Finland by former municipality". So the villages themselves then are not former but current administrative entities (with the above mentioned exeption of areas that no longer are part of Finland) as they only happen to be part of some former municipality, which in this case is that what is the "former admin istrative entity" and not the villages themselves.--Urjanhai (talk) 12:50, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See also: Talk:Q10224205 (approximately the same argument as here). --Urjanhai (talk) 13:43, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Asked in Property_talk:P131#Former_administrative_units. That seemed helpful.--Urjanhai (talk) 17:16, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the property because the property is true only for villages that no longer are part of finnish territory due to World war II, the rest are not historical entities but, instead, existing entities tha are stuated in the area of some former municipality of Finland. The proper translation to the category according to which the wikidata item was created, would be "an existing village of a former municipality in Finland" or something like that.--Urjanhai (talk) 08:24, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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