Verbatim #4 CPE Unit

Educator: Beatriz Pacheco

Interviewer’s name: Brandon W. Ross

Part I: Known Facts:

I was told by a fellow chaplain of a message that came to the chaplain’s office about a patient that
may be having life support withdrawn later in the day today, the nurse called to inform us that the
daughter of the pt. Is there and wanted to discuss her mother being baptized. This was our other
chaplain’s palliative care patient and I assumed he would handle this situation, but he had a meeting
scheduled and said that he wanted to know if myself or the other chaplain working today could go and
explore the situation. We did not know the spiritual status of the patient and the other chaplain deferred to
me. I agreed to go and learn more about the situation.

Part II: Observations:

As I walked in the room, There was a middle aged female which was the daughter of the patient
sitting next to her mother’s bedside holding her mother’s hand from time to time. The patient was
intubated and not awake. The patient seemed to be unconscious to me. The daughter was friendly and
welcoming to me and immediately began to talk with me after I introduced myself.

Part III: assumptions from observations, my feelings going into the interview:

My first assumption was that this may be a challenging situation, especially if the family is
wanting me to baptize someone that is not even alert or awake, especially if I know nothing of her
spiritual history or condition. My feelings going into the interview were a desire to listen to the daughter
and just to first of all learn about the situation. My feelings were, feelings of the need of God’s guidance
and the feelings of dependence on God.
 Part IV: Purpose/focus:

My purpose in sharing this verbatim is to reflect on the visit and see what things I may have done
right and if there were any areas I could do better. I’m curious to discover from my peers, if they have
had similar circumstances, and how they responded in the situation. The focus of the verbatim is the
uniqueness of this situation and how a good chaplain and minister of the Lord should respond in this
situation to please God and minister to the family in this unique situation.

Part V: Dialogue:

T= The patient’s daughter

( I walk into the room and notice The daughter, a middle aged white female is sitting next to her mom.
The mom is in bed, intubated, eyes closed approximately 67 years old and a white female).

BR= Hello, How are you doing today?

T= Oh, Ok I guess.

BR= My name is Brandon, I am one of the chaplain’s here.

T= O, hello, I am T, I am the patient’s daughter.

BR= Well, it’s good to meet you. I was told by one of the other chaplains that you may like to speak to a
chaplain.

T= Yeah, my mom and I were estranged for years. She dropped me and my sister off at her mom’s house
when I was only 3 and just left us there, she was a very self centered person. I have tried to have a
relationship but it has been hard, I don’t know if I can forgive her. I’ve tried to have a relationship but it’s
been hard.

(I was surprised at her candid admission of the difficult relationship she’s had with her mom. I was
thinking wow, that would be hard to handle.)

BR= I’m sorry to hear this, I’m sure that must have been hard to deal with. I was hurt when my dad left
my mom and I felt like he abandoned her. It was hard to deal with seeing my parents split up. It’s hard to
deal with things like this for sure. ( I hoped to sympathize with her, by remembering and sharing of a real
childhood heart ache I went through when I was a child.)
BR= So, did you speak to one of the nurses about maybe your mom wanting to be baptized or something

T= Well, here’s the deal my daughter, my mom’s grandaughter, was talking to me and said she had
remembered my mom saying she wanted to get baptized, which surprised me because I”ve known my
mom for years and she’s always been agnostic.

BR= Has your mom ever been a part of a particular church?

T= No, like I said, to my knowledge she’s always been a very self centered person and agnostic. See,
here’s a text my daughter sent me:

BR= I looked and the text said: “One time grandma said her and her dog wanted to get baptized.”

BR= Well, I was just curious if she had a particular faith tradition

BR= So, she wanted the dog baptized too huh.

T= Laughingly said, well I’m not sure if she wanted the dog baptized or for it just to be there?

BR= Well, when is the last time your mom was able to communicate?

T= Well my mom has had alzheimer’s for a while and it’s been progressing, it's gotten worse in the last
week. She’s been here about 3 weeks in the hospital and hasn’t talked much, but smiled when my
daughter brought a blanket.

BR= Well, concerning baptism, my understanding of baptism is that it’s not what saves a person. It is our
personal faith in Christ that saves. When we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The jailer asked: “What
must I do to be saved?” the answer given to him was: “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be
saved.” When we are saved by Christ, we are to follow him in Believer’s baptism in obedience to Him.

T= I agree, I am baptist and I believe that’s right. I guess I fear for my mom because she was so self
centered and like I said she was agnostic.

BR= It would be good if we could talk to your grandaughter and maybe learn a little more about that
conversation she had with your mom. When will she be here?

T= Well she’s driving from Kentucky and will be here in about 4 to five hours.

BR= Maybe the Chaplain that’s here this evening could visit with you and the daughter and learn a little
more about the conversation your mom had about baptism?
BR= Also, I know that God knows our hearts, if your mom came to a place where she placed her faith in
Jesus as her Lord and savior, the Lord can save her whether or not she gets baptized. God knows our
hearts. He has the final say in these matters.

T= I’ll talk to my daughter about this.

BR= Like I said, our other chaplain will be here till 10 this evening, if y’all want to reach out to her. We
can pray if you would like for right now. Yes that would be good

( We bowed our hearts and heads to pray)

BR= Father in Heaven, you’re aware of this situation, you know about T’s mom. I pray that you would
help her to be able to communicate with you in her heart, even though she has a communication barrier
now, please help her to just have faith and trust in you. Please be with T and her family as they deal with
their loved one’s illness. Lord please help this family during this time and we ask for your mercy and
grace in Jesus name amen.

T= Thank you for the prayer.

BR= Your welcome, I’m not saying baptism can’t be done, I’m just saying it may be good to have some
more information to go on, hopefully you can all visit with the evening chaplain.

Part IV: Analysis

1. The Person(s): T was the patient’s daughter that seems like she had a tough history with her mom, but
yet wanted to be with her and communicated that. The grandaughter of the pt was on the way. The Pt.
was sleeping and unresponsive.

2. The Chaplain: I felt as though I was entering the room to come along side them and help them with
the load they were carrying. I was blessed to meet them and I hope I did encourage them and was able to
shine the Lord’s light in a potentially dark and discouraging time.

3. Interpersonal Dynamics: I felt that we had some things in common on our perspective. In my opinion
it seemed like there was alot of unknown elements to the spiritual history of the patient, since she could
not speak for herself in this situation as for her current and personal wishes.
4. Theological Implications: This is a unique situation in which the theology of soteriology, or the study
of salvation and baptism comes into play and one of the main topics of this particular encounter centered
around the idea of when baptism is really appropriate, and what if a chaplain is put in a situation where
they may have a check in their spirit about performing a ritual on someone when they can’t actually speak
to that individual. There are many schools of thought on these topics based on people’s unique spiritual
and religious belief’s and faith traditions. A person has to seek God’s wisdom and direction in these
unique situations where it may not seem to be so clear how to proceed.

5. Future Goals for learning/ministry: I hope to learn the best way to handle these situations in a way
that is pleasing to God and allows me to maintain a clear conscience before God. Also, how to minister to
the family appropriately.