Paulo Mendes da Rocha

Author(s): Ruth Verde Zein and Paulo Mendes da Rocha

Source: BOMB, No. 102, Brazil (Winter, 2008), pp. 64-69
Published by: New Art Publications
Stable URL: http://www.jstor.org/stable/40427930 .
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 The Practice + Theory series =
is sponsored in part by the
Frances DittmerFamily Foundation.

Paulo Mendes
da Rocha

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 P
Paulo Mendes da Rocha is one of Bornin 1928 in Vitória,a apparentconcretesurfacesand R
Brazil's leading architects,and his harborcitybetweenRio de Janeiro impressivehuge-spanstructures. A
recognitionhas greatlyincreased and Salvador, Mendes da Rocha Thissecond Brazilian architectural C
since winningthePritzkerPrize in arrivedin Sao Paulo in the '50s to avant-gardetrend- thePaulista T
2006. That was thepeak, buthe has studyarchitectureat Mackenzie School- is lesser knownabroad but I
enjoyedan internationalreputation University. Veryearly in his career veryimportantin Brazil and Latin C
for thelast decade. Awarded the he won a national competitionand America,and Mendes da Rocha is E

"ProfessionalTrajectoryPrize'*at designed,withJoão de Gennaro, one ofitsmain contributors. +

the 1998 Ibero-AmericanBiennial thePaulistano AthleticClub, using Forpolitical reasons Mendes da T

Mendes da Rocha renovatedthe a daring,innovativeconcreteand Rocha and otherleftistBrazilian H
Pinacoteca do Estado, Sao Paulo's steel structurethatreceived the intellectualswere expelledfrom E
State Museum.Twoyears later, 1961 São Paulo Biennial Grand the University in 1969 by themili- 0
thisearned himthe2000 Mies van Prize. He also won thenational tarydictatorship.Mendes da Rocha R
der Rohe PrizeforLatin American competition for theBrazilian was onlyable toresumehis profes- Y
Architecture and theopportunity Pavilion at the 1970 World'sFair sorshipin 1980followingthecoun-
to workabroad. In 2002,Mendes in Osaka, Japan,a minimalist try'sdemocraticrestoration.Back
da Rocha was one of 12 archi- structuremodeled on artificial at theuniversity, a new genera-
tectsinvitedtopropose designs topographyand coveredby an tionofarchitectshas been influ-
fora vastsportscomplexin Paris airy,lightness-lending gridof enced byhis ethical discourseand
coincidingwiththecity'sbidfor concreteslabs. strongarchitecturalpropositions.
the2008 Olympicgames. Since The architectVilanovaArtigas, Nowadays,mostofhis projectsare
then,he has developed building a generationolder,invitedMendes beingdeveloped withsome ofthese
models as well as a topographic da Rocha to teach at the University youngtalents.
schemefor the TechnologicalCity, of Sao Paulo in theearly '60s. It Aboutto turn80, Mendes
a sectionof the University of Vigo was a momentwhen thelessons da Rocha continuestoproduce
in Galicia, Spain, whichfeaturesa of the Carioca ModernistSchool outstandingworksbothbig and
series of bridgesto whichnew and had been absorbed,and thefield small, each one an intriguing union
existingbuildingsare connected, had ripenedontootherpaths. The of thesensible and the extraordi-
preservingthehillylandscape. This '60s were a timeof architectural nary.His propositionscan be read
year ho willfinisha social hous- experimentation when important as poetic statementsabout art
ingprojectin thecommunity of creatorslike Artigas,Mendes da and technique.In thisemail inter-
Vallecas, Madrid. Recentworksin Rocha, Lina Bo Bardi and several view,conductedover thepastfaw
Brazil include therevitalization othersdesignedoutstandingworks months,butreallypart and parcel
of an abandoned brick-and-stone tunedwiththe "brutalistconnec- of a lifelongconversation,Mendes
chapel at theceramicistFrancisco tion."Described byBritishart da Rocha has treatedbothtopics-
Brennand'satelier in Recife,and a criticReynerBanham as blending techniqueand art- withhis usual
Children'sMuseumin Santo André, an ethical discourseand aesthetic polemical enthusiasm.
Sao Paulo. assertions,theyfavored rough,

RUTHVERDEZEIN rials are always necessary to create new architec-

What do you think of the issue of technique in ture. It does not work like that all the time. If you
architecture? were going to create something totally unprece-
PAULOMENDESDA ROCHA dented-let's imagine developing architecture for
5
>- In my view architecture is not about technique; it is another planet- that would clearly demand brand-
3« itself technique. It has nothingto do with this mate- new computer technologies, metallurgie mate-
IS rial or that technology. Technique is not about the rials, alloys, and so forth. But the idea of a new
opportunityto use new materials; rather it is about town, or the idea of solving issues we all dream

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handling and organizing the right resources. This about solving, such as providinghousing forevery-
is architecture: the arrangement and application of body-all this does not require new techniques,
technical knowledge- each and every time- in an but rather the best use of the same ordinaryones.
appropriate and possibly distinctive way. Architecture is like speech: the organization of the

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RVZ People sometimes confuse technical improvement words is what's important. In architecture, tech-

l|¡ withthe use of new materials. nique does not necessarily imply unusual materi-

¡p als; it implies technique,

PMR Yes, as if technique were a sort of patchwork of

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items to be put together, rather than an idea or a RVZ So, innovationmay be a rearrangementof the already
way of thinking. Nowadays, the best technique is known,the fresh coming fromthe same, not neces- 6
sometimes clouded by the notion that new mate- sarilyfromthe new. 5

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p
A PMR This technique-architecture analogy can be under- a wonderful building that deals splendidly with
U stood just the way you understand words in litera- the space in the city center: movie theater, coffee
L ture. They already exist and function in their usual shops, stores, theaters, and several apartment
0 sense in the existing language; however, they arrangements inside one contiguous space. A new
can assume another meaning- if you like- in the architectural mass should not be a mere repetition
M context of your speech. Moreover, words have a of the old forms, but something that can promote
E special value in literature and even greater value a better urban existence. Inside it, a single and
N in poetry. Poetry does not require new words; it bigger swimming pool would do to accommodate
D is made by arranging words. That's what makes all the kids.
E it so impressive. Through ordinary words, poetry RVZ A finearchitecturedoes not need to use a brand-new
S might accomplish the words' dream: to speak material,just like poetry does not need to fabricate
the unspeakable, to express the last tip of our new words.
D thoughts. You could picture the architect's mate- PMR The possibility of using extremelysuperior technol-
A rials as words: if you think of words as stones you ogies can overwhelm us and create the desire to use
can build whatever you want to in accordance those materials without knowing the reason why or
R with the way you organize these stone/words. By what for,we're merely driven by an aesthetic sense
0 rearranging the same pre-existing words, you get or to show off. This is completely unreasonable.
C another outcome. Architecture is primarily about finding the ideal
H RVZ Hence you thinkthat technical innovations and new and sometimes elusive spatial arrangement. The
A materials are not necessarily the same. best architectural techniques- especially in settled
PMR For example, just look at apartment buildings. An city spaces- are not showy; they serve to reach an
apartment building is often positioned upon a site outcome involving our lives and our daily perfor-
where a house previously sat, without any rethink- mance. For example, to meet special needs such as
ing or rearranging of the space. Each apartment lowering the groundwater,or the required thrust of
block needlessly aims to be self-sufficient, with the structural performances, or the effortsto fight
its small garden, small swimming pool, and sepa- or to foresee all this, or to just facilitate one more
rate garage; potential connections are broken column of windows that face the sea. So, there is
by unnecessary walls. This is not the best urban a certain amount of confusion in this excessive
technique. It is a very poor use of technique, all display of material and technologies, since the
these separate buildings. Their ingredients- their crucial techniques are other ones.
words, their materials- can be joined in a big RVZ But there can be a beauty in makingthese techniques
construction like the Copan [designed by Oscar perceived.
Niemeyer in the '50s for São Paulo's downtown], PMR Well, you could say that it's beautiful to make

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them appear: like in the city of Santos [a harbor RVZ At the Dom Pedro II Urban Bus Terminalyou applied a
40 miles from São Paulo]. The city sits on top of rearrangementtechnique. The roof catches the rain-
a former marsh and has seven canals, designed water,which flows visiblyand beautifullydown each
after a project by urban planner Saturnino de Brito of the building'spillars.
at the beginning of the twentieth century to criss- PMR This building, a municipal bus terminal, had to
cross the marsh regularly. All that is the result of be constructed quickly and with minimal funds.
an effortto drain the territoryso it could be used There was simply no need for new materials or
fora bigger city. But of course these canals have to new technology. There was just reasoning: if you
become visible- -and they are very nice. It's impor- need to shelter people at the bus stop, why can't
tant to appreciate that the canals' beauty springs the roof be an apron that collects rainwater? A roof
from the fact that they solved a practical prob- that makes the water flow over the edge is not a
lem. The harbor was an unhealthy area fullof piers, good idea because it needs a running gutter and
rivers, warehouses, and trains; it needed to be a pipe on the edge to take off the water, spoiling
sanitized. The canals visibly celebrate the essence the effect of lightness. It is not very difficultto
of the city- to gather people so they take pleasure imagine another solution. Ifyou invertthe roof,the
in working and living. rainwater will collect and then escape though any
RVZ What,then,is the role of technique in architecture? hole you make. It's a beautiful scene; the disad-
PMR As far as I am concerned, the thing to do is to vantage is that people can get wet if they pass
head off any kind of disaster. Architecture has under it. But the place where people cannot pass
a huge responsibility regarding calculations; it is by the columns. Here comes the fluid part of the
is mostly not how to do something, but how to matter. The water could pass through the core of
stop from doing the norm. For example, we have each pillar, but then nobody would see anything;
talked about the right positioning of the build- instead everybody would be bewildered, think-
ings in the city, avoiding wasted and constricted ing: Where has that water gone? The solution at
space. That might seem vague, but stay with me. the DPII Bus Terminal was quite simple; the water
Standard apartment buildings have a rear distance falls around the columns' exterior. That wonder-
from the lot's border. If you were to combine all of ful water coming from the sky is so pleasant, so
these strangled spaces, you could have a continu- amusing. You just have to protect the immedi-
ous tree-planted strip instead of timid segments, ate vicinity of the column, and so you may prefer
some of which are green and some of which are to surround it with a translucent panel where you
not. Applying a thoughtfuldesign in the firstplace can display information- itineraries and such- but
prevents the destruction of space. Avoiding disas- never touching the top, so that the structure can 6
ters is a far more important action. freely move with wind and heat as necessary, as 7

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p
A it's a covered open space. The project uses every- for improvement is lost. The hanging cover I've
U day materials in pretty much the same way that designed for the exit of the Galeria Prestes Maia
L they are always used; it is only a matter of reorga- underpass, which connects the Patriarcha Square
0 nizing the same things in a differentmanner. to the Anhangabau Valley [the old and the new
RVZ It is also a matter of asking the proper questions. downtown areas of São Paulo], stands for a desire
M Here, what is at stake is not just how to support a to make a strong and interesting affirmationabout
E covering,but how to collect the rainwater;and there the interdependence of forms and ideas, an urban
N is a focus shiftthat goes beyond the functionaland architecture that not only restores but also creates
D also chooses to please the eye. new images that help to express contemporary
E PMR It is crucial to identifythe core questions in each urban habits.
S specific case. It's easy and necessary to cover a RVZ The making of the new is of course the main issue
building, and a tiled roof is quite an obvious and on the outskirtsof our metropolitanareas, which are
D ordinary answer. But if you think twice about how incompletecities that are foreverexpanding,painfully
A to deal with rainwater, well, there you can find a constructingthemselves.
very interesting topic. This is what the technique PMR Well, the question of the outskirts is not how to
R issue is about- at least for me. You activate the improve quality, but rather how to staunch the
0 already absorbed knowledge and at the same time reproduction of predatory occupation. A periphery
C thinkof an entirely differenttechnical approach to as such should not exist: it's a mistake. We need to
H transform the task at hand. We praise the cities, invigorate city centers, which lack energy because
A and history has invested them with multiple kinds they've been abandoned; and what better way to
of value, but you also have to think about the do that than to populate them with people who
future. What would a city triggered by a different need to be sheltered? We have a huge city-edge
technical approach be like? There seems to be an that lacks everything: people living in the periph-
attitude of scorn toward the idea of a new town ery plead for housing, hospitals, sewers, schools,
being built all at once. But we in America have utilities, and transportation. But if you make an
done that so many times - from Washington, DC, inventory,it is all there, in the existing city: there
to Brasilia to Palmas - and thinkingof ways to real- is an absurd number of abandoned buildings in the
ize something distinctive is fascinating. Not forthe downtown areas, shut up with crude walls in order
sake of the new, but to open up forthe better. not to be invaded by homeless people. It is quite
RVZ The idea of a new town- even inside an old one - is bizarre, an impractical waste.
fascinating.It seems to me that yourproposals forthe RVZ Now that we've talked about technique, let's discuss
existingcity intendto make people see a place anew, art. Is architectureart?
and to ask people to thinkabout what their eyes are PMR In a way, it's always about language, or languages.
seeing. That's the attractiveness of your design for Art happens when you have to devise a way to
the PatriarchaSquare in downtown São Paulo. make your reflections known. It is a matter of
PMR Our cities- São Paulo, forexample- should be eter- consciousness; you have to carry on and so you
nal, and that is possible. There is no reason to think create a language to express yourself. But as the
otherwise. It is also a disaster to abandon cities poet said, the work of art exists in absolute soli-
so they have to be constantly remade. But if you tude. You may have never heard of it, and it may
just mend, aiming only to maintain what already not be in a museum or in a tourist's guide; it is just
exists, you'll eventually be left with new stuffthat something inevitable, for human beings can't help
merely looks like the old stuff,and the opportunity but to act artistically. What we call art is an inven-
tion ad momentum, including everything from
words to things, everything that is reflexive and
transforms our understanding. You do not have to
be a scientist to have a scientific vision of things;
you just associate repeating phenomena. When
you arrange all that in a way that is revelatory to
the moment, you're acting as an artist. You don't
need a diploma to be an artist, nor recognition,
nor someone to label you as such. It may happen <
but that is not what matters: you just want to live, o
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and that's enough. Art is an attribute of the human Q
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Solitude may manifest itself in a more abstract way. 5i
Do you think that what you say is ever completely is

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understood by the others, or by yourself? You beginning of the twentieth century was aware of
never know how true this is. An artist, a work of being flown, and of the mechanical effort neces-
art- can you say that you have completely under- sary to put that thing up in the air. In a way, people
stood them? Shakespeare, or Guimarães Rosa- are losing the ability to be in awe and thus the abil-
have they themselves accomplished what they ity to wonder how things might be improved. This
really wanted to say? Everythingis just attempts is an artistic loss, when you fail to understand that
that uncertainly approach but never arrive. That's the ability to be creative is a human necessity.
why life is so fun: it is always a mere long shot with RVZ But the idea of art as a spontaneous achievement-
no certain aim. PMR -is foolish, of course. You design what you want.
In architecture, you can't believe that since you If it is impulsive it has no value; even spontaneity
opened a door and entered a house, this is what is a calculated thing in art and especially in archi-
you are seeing. Nothing is so clear. And some- tecture. As the Portuguese poet Fernando Pessoa
times a house is really a nothing: a bunch of doors says in "Autopsicografia" (Autopsychography),
and windows with no purpose or meaning except "O poeta é um fingidor/Fingetão completamente
that they were put there. But even then, there is a / que chega a fingirque é dor/ a dor que deveras
poetic dimension in the plain repetition that occurs sente" (The poet is a faker / Who's so good at his
in vernacular architecture. A house possesses an act, / He even fakes the pain / Of pain he feels
artistic dimension just by the simple fact of its in fact). But you do not pretend to really under-
being a house, something made apart from nature. stand all this; it is not to be understood but to
RVZ So everyoneis an artist,but sometimes a hiddenone? be done. Overanalyzing can be quite dangerous. I
PMR When art is hidden it's okay, since one day it can be do not have to explain my work; you do that, it's
uncovered. Art is the immense fortune of mankind. your task.
But the worst scenario is when it degenerates,
which is an increasing condition. The new genera-
tions are not adequately educated; there is a need
to consume but without perceiving where or when
this or that knowledge has come from,as if every
created thing just exists. This is a compromised
experience of the world. If you can trace a creation
to its roots you can imagine. You can predict or
prevent; but when you just don't know the past or
how to perceive the present, it's hopeless. It's the 6
absence of connections: a person in a plane in the 9

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