INTERVIEW BY RADIO ICUR

Obregon City, Republic of Mexico, 1977

Samael Aun Weor
Instituto Cultural Quetzalcoatl de Antropologa Psicoanaltica, A.C.
www.samaelgnosis.net y www.samaelgnosis.org


Interview by Radio ICUR Samael Aun Wor
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Interview by Radio ICUR
ext, by "Radio Icur", the next interview with Master Samael Aun Weor, guide
of the International Gnostic Association. Master: Could you tell us in what
way and how do the study programs within the Gnostic Association are
developed?
With the greatest pleasure I shall answer to that most interesting question. The
discoveries that we encounter about anthropologic issues. Such discoveries are related,
precisely, with the programs and upon the basement of those. Obviously, there exists
much didactic material sparsed here, and there and in nooks, pyramids, tombs and
various archeological pieces. Obviously we know how to extract, by precise rules, the
knowledge contained in each archeological piece, for the good of contemporary humanity
and for love, naturally of our beloved Mexican homeland.
It has been an interesting response, Master. Now, please, we would like to
know why the Gnostic teachings affirm the existence of other dimensions, within
which certain prepared people can enter. The following is our question: How many
dimensions exist and how can one obtain the capability to penetrate in them?
Certainly, I have liked that question very much, it is interesting...
The tridimentional geometry of Euclid is very truly discussed, it has never been
accepted in a form of dogma. However there is no doubt that they still exist, around there,
certain retarded people, completely bottled in this type of geometry that is now starting to
go out of style. Einstein accepted a fourth coordinate; he is demonstrating, precisely, in
his theory of the Law of Relativity. There is no doubt that the fourth vertical is
mathematically demonstrated.
Continuing with these disquisitions, we shall say that our ancestor of Anahuac also
knew the fourth dimension. If one carefully reads some codices, one will be astounded
when you can corroborate this affirmation.
It comes to my mind, in this instant, the chronicle of Father Duran (which is
marvelous in itself). It refers to a tale of an episode of the life of the famous Emperor
Montezuma. Wanting to know something about our ancestors, about the ancestors of the
great Tenochtitlan, he summoned Tlacaelel, his prime Minister, and he told him: "I want to
know something about my elders, about Quetzalcoatl, about Huitzilopochtli, about the
mother of Huitzilopochtli and about many other men. I wish to visit them. Do you know
about that and where they live?" "Sir! (Answered Tlacaelel), your heart is noble, because I
see that you really remember our elders! Getting there, where they live (the remote TULE,
in the Crystal Isle, in the North Pole), is something more than impossible. The road is
closed by many jungles, there are bottomless lagoons and fierce monsters and nobody
could ever get there, I think it is a matter, surely, of charmers, mages or something, I don't
N
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know. Only those people could get to that far away place. However, there is a great
historian in our kingdom; you could consult him...
The emperor, quite touched, resolved to with Tlacaelel to the place where the
kingdom's historian lived. "Worshipful elder (he says to him), I want you to inform him
something about our elders: Where do they dwell, where do they live? What do you know
about Huitzilopochtli and all our ancestors, and about the mother of Huitzilopochtli and
about the great Quetzalcoatl?" "Powerful emperor (responded the Worshipful), what you
ask of me is very impossible, because then now dwell in the far away Tule and no living
being can go there. There are deep and impenetrable jungles, bottomless lagoons, and
oddly, there are those that can ever get there. But you have 60 mages in your court and
you can consult with them"... "I see that you have told me the truth then, kind old one,
because the same has been affirmed by my prime minister". He gave thanks and left...
He, Montezuma, then summoned the 60 elders of the great Tenochtitlan, as wise
as no one else, and he delivered gifts for Quetzalcoatl and for all of the ancestors of the
ancient Nahuas. The event was extraordinary. It is said that the 60 went to a far off place
where they carried out certain ceremonies or cults, proper of Anahuac: danced around a
fixed place, anointed their bodies with certain ointments and based solely on the power of
the thought, they entered within the fourth dimension. The legend tells of the centuries
that they traveled between from the fourth vertical until the land of the elders: the Sacred
Isle, located today under the ices of the North Pole, a place where the remote "Tule" is
really located. It is said that this is the geologic layer or "Holy Island" that has remained
since the beginning, always firm, although covered in ice on these times.
Well, the truth is that according with the tale (I always refer to the same), that the
narrations of Father Duran, catholic priest, they found there (they, the voyagers of the
fourth vertical) to a worshipful elder. They approached him and he interrogated them:
"Where do you come from?" "We come (they said) from the great Tenochtitlan; we are
subjects of the great emperor Montezuma and we bring presents for our ancestors"...
"Good, follow me". They followed him and penetrated in some marvelous compounds.
More, on the way their feet would sink into the sand... "What is wrong with you, Mexicans?
Why art thou so heavy? What do you eat? They responded: "We drink pulque and eat all
kinds of meats and we get drunk". "Ah, and that is what makes you so heavy, Mexicans!"
They received the gifts, the worshipful elders, and it should be stated that within
those ancestors of Anahuac, was Quetzalcoatl and the mother of Huitzilopochtli (with her
face covered in soot, and her clothing in rags). Quetzalcoatl said: "If you, Mexicans, do
not suspend pulque and continue with human sacrifices, you will know that on the other
side of the sea, white men with beards (he was referring to the Spaniards, of course) will
come and will enslave you and destroy you"...
The tradition tells that the 60 returned to the kingdom of Montezuma and
communicated to the Prime Minister and the Emperor of everything that happened. They
cried bitterly. Unfortunately, they did not correct themselves and continued the orgies with
pulque and human sacrifices, and alas, with everything that goes down when a civilization
decays. Later, we have seen that the prophecy was fulfilled.
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So it is, in true reality, in accordance with certain traditions (given by some catholic
priests, written in very serious books), the ancestors of Anahuac managed the "States of
Jinas" or "Yinas", as those mysticals are called, states in which are precisely related with
the fourth vertical.
We have procedures or methods that we have learned precisely, or we have
extracted from some codexis; in by which is possible, educated by the force of thought,
penetrate into the fourth vertical. This does not deal with concepts or utopias, no; in true
reality now that some of us know how to put our physical bodies within the fourth vertical,
we have achieved it.
We consider, then, that the world is multidimensional. So that, we try that people
care a little more about getting to know the superior dimensions of nature and of the
cosmos...
Master: the Gnostic Association of Anthropologic Studies is imparting free
classes to all of those that wish to assist to these. There are many of good things
that are taught there, this the way to penetrate in the fourth dimension. Moreover,
our question, about the same theme, is in the sense of how many years of study,
more or less, are needed to enter the fourth dimension.
Well, our concept "time" between us has been eliminated and we have replaced
that with the concept "space". Obviously, those who realize great super-efforts in the
education of the mental forces, volitives, etc., quickly obtain and realize the phenomena
related to the superior dimensions of nature and the cosmos. However, those that do not
enforce themselves, those who truly do not dedicate themselves to study and to thinking,
linger much in realizing such experiments with good success.
Master: What is the Gnostic Association's opinion of the Bible?
We consider that is, is a sacred book and we respect it profoundly. Nevertheless,
the Gnostics have, say, our Bible. I want to refer, in emphatic form, to the PISTIS
SOPHIA. Such work was found in the soils of Egypt (the shovel of the archeologists met
with the papyrus). The same was translated, correctly, to different languages.
Unfortunately it was encoded. We are unveiling it for the good of humanity.
The Pistis Sophia has the teachings that Jesus of Nazareth gave to his disciples in
the Mount of Olives. All of the papyrus is written in Coptic and on the bottom, it is
wonderful. In these moments we are, precisely, committed to the labor of unveiling and
explaining, clearly, the cited papyrus. I am sure that it will be beneficial for the whole
Christian world, because they will better know the word of the Master.
Here too, in Mexico, we are not left behind. We have here, us, codexis as wise as
the "Codex Borgia", which pertains to the Anthropology. We propose to ourselves in
unveiling it, thanks to the codes that we actually have, for the good of the hurting
humanity. This codex contains extraordinary teachings.
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As it is known, it was found here in Europe, because the foreigners always loot our
national treasures (they took that codex to Europe). A child over there, in a very
aristocratic house of Europe, was toying with the codex and they even burned a part of it.
Fortunately, it was not much that was burned (that way the codex got saved). Someone,
interested in those studies, saved it in time.
In the name of the truth, we should say that this codex contains extraordinary
wisdom that we will unveil shortly, and we will continue with our work of Gnostic
anthropology for the good of all aching humanity.
Master Samael Aun Weor: according to the theory of a German writer and
investigator, there were astronauts in our planet thousands of years ago. We would
like to ask you opinion on behalf of the Gnostic Association about this very
interesting issue.
Certainly, this question is greatly related with prehistory and even with geology,
because it is well known that one and the other have changed throughout the centuries.
For example, where the Gulf of Mexico currently lies there existed a precious valley, but
because of the submersion of the Atlantean continent, such valley disappeared, the
waters flooded it. In other times, for example, there existed a fringe of land that went from
the north of the Gulf of Mexico to Africa, thru Atlantis. Thru this fringe of land came many
colored people until our ancient country, Mexico, where there existed different kingdoms
(in those times). Europe, then, had not completely emerged from the bottom of the seas
and Atlantis is extended from South to North, in the ocean that has its name.
So, the geology is modified incessantly. I say and cite this, precisely because in
Atlantis they had what could be called "cosmo-port": cosmic spacecraft, manned by the
famous extraterrestrials, which descended normally on the airport (or "cosmo-port", to be
more clear) that was located near one of the great Atlantic cities. In different cities there
where "cosmo-ports", but the most important one was in the City of Samlios; on those
ages; it was very similar to the modern Paris of our days; a kind of world capital of the
cultural type, super civilized, and the habitants of Atlantis where accustomed to the
descents of spacecraft, manned by people of other planets. This was not strange; this
was not odd; it was as common as the onion or the potato. Unfortunately, the Atlantean
civilization decayed: the people used atomic weapons for destruction, the same as in our
period. It was seen that humanity was degenerating and then the ships where less
frequent. And when humanity totally degenerated, when it turned in to a civilization similar
to ours (because of it's degeneration), the spacecraft then glowed because of their
absence. However, we were not totally abandoned.
Atlantis sunk between the bottoms of the seas (we cannot deny this), thru horrible
cataclysms. There came a revolution of the axis of the earth, the seas were displaced, the
bedrock was changed, and Atlantis finally came to an end. Remnants of the Atlantis are
the Antilles, Canary Islands, etc. However, I repeat: we are not totally abandoned, the
spacecraft always furrow the skies. I have narrated various times, before an audience, a
solid fact that happened to me: I had direct, personal contact, with the inhabitants of other
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planets; I achieved this contact in the "Dessert of the Lions", Mexico City, and it was
extraordinary!...
I was there in that forest, when I was surprised by a ship that slowly descended
until landing in a clearing of the forest. Moved by curiosity, I approached to see what was
happening and my surprise was great when I saw, precisely over a steel tripod, an
extraordinary ship, marvelous. A hatch opened and a slim person descended by a ladder,
of medium stature, copperish skin, blue eyes, ample forehead, straight nose with slim lips,
small and tucked ear, conic hands, elongated like that of Francis of Assisi or Antonio de
Padua. He had a strange apparatus, a mechanical instrument that was unknown by me.
Behind him, descended a whole team, among them two ladies of unknown age. I
extended my hand to salute them and as a curious thing, he extended his hand and
stretched it with mine. I greeted him in our language and he answered in perfect English,
something that really surprised me; I did not know that the astronauts spoke English.
Anyway, it seems that they have the gift of languages. So, I understand, because he
spoke with no difficulties.
I begged him to take me to another planet (to Mars, I said). So he responded: "To
Mars you say?" Yes, to Mars! "Well, it's just there" (was the answer). I was perplexed.
"Just there? (I told him) well! I wish the scientists of our planet Earth could travel so easily,
as these men do! To him, this is "just there"...
My supplications were useless, in the sense that he would take me. I held the
tripod, the steel one, in which the ship was on. I did not wanted to let go; I was determined
that they took me anywhere, but the Captain was silent.
Afterwards the team sat down on some logs that were around, on the ground, and
one of the ladies, standing up, spoke in name of all the team. She said: "If we put a plant
that is not aromatic, next to one that is, it is clear that the one that is not aromatic will get
impregnated with the aroma of the one that is, right? I answered: "Well of course, that is
true!" Then she continued: "The same thing can happen with two worlds. Worlds with
humanities that were very bad before, now are very good because they became
impregnated, little by little, with the radiations of the neighbourhood worlds. Nevertheless,
we have arrived here on Earth, where you live and we see that here, in this planet, it is not
the same. What is happening here?
The lady was very amazed, she was bewildered. I understand that she was
horrified on the state of perversity in which we are. According to point of view and
understandment, she was right...
Well, I responded how I could. I told her: "in this planet Earth what happens is that
it's a mistake of the Gods". Then I resolved to "round" my concept better, mature it a little,
and I continued saying: "It is the karma of the worlds"... "Karma" is an oriental word, better
said Sanskrit, which indicates "law of cause and effect", or "Law of Action and
Consequence", meaning: such action, such consequence. There cannot be effect without
cause, nor cause without effect. Any defect can become in cause as well, within the "LAW
OF STRAIGHT CHAINING".
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Therefore, the lady nodded, and making a respectful gesture, the other lady also
nodded, and the gentlemen, all nodded with a respectful gesture.
Well, I was satisfied by not being so wrong. I tried to "round" the concept the best I
could and it worked.
Everyone got up, to go back to the ship. I saw that the thing was grave, that they
were leaving and not taking me (I very much wanted to go). I resolved, simply, to reiterate
my demand to the captain. I told him: "I am a man, with a perfect sense of moral
responsibility; I know what I am asking of you, captain. I need to bring information with
data of other civilizations; proof that life exists in other worlds. Those earthlings are very
difficult, unbelievers by a hundred percent, they do not even believe in their own shadow. I
know the earthlings, I am an inhabitant of this world, and I know what they are. These, not
even crying with tears of blood they believe you; they are unbelievers, materialists, rude in
a hundred percent"...
Well, nothing that I said was worth anything to them. Finally the Captain responded
(and it was like a wonderful bounty), saying: "We shall see on the way"... He said this at
the time he raised his index finger, the index finger of the right hand.
It was a comfort for me, even that phrase, even if it was only that. I know they are
not earthlings; earthlings make fun of you. These do not, these people do not, and that
phrase, I am sure that they will fulfill it.
However, what "way" did the captain refer to? I understand that it was the way of
wisdom.
Well, there we are: advancing a little more, there we go with our investigations. We
try to correct out psychological defects, to see if one day we ever get the captain to
remember us and take us to know other habited worlds.
After, those words said, that extraordinary man, followed by his people, returned to
the ship. He got on thru the stairs, opened the hatch, and entered within it. I conveniently
withdrawed and without them asking for it. I understood, simply, that the radiation could
end my life so I got away to a certain distance to observe what was happening. That ship
spinned over its axis and rose to a great velocity, until it was lost in the infinity.
Well, so, I have this data and I have communicated them here, to you, very gladly.
It is clear that the issue was surprising. For me, these days, the issue of the flying saucers
is not a cause of curiosity. I understand that in order for one to be taken to other inhabited
worlds, one needs to be cleaner, more responsible, eliminate many psychological defects,
etc.
I am waiting, to see if its possible to correct my defects, I could one day be visited
again by that team. I will be hopeful, and, simply, I am sure that they will fulfill their word
because they are not earthlings.
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I hope that will be so, Master!
Now our question is the following: What is the Gnostic Association's opinion
about the Yoga doctrines, such as Hata-Yoga, Kundalini Yoga, etc.?
With the greatest pleasure, I will answer this most interesting question.
Certainly, there exist diverse Yoga schools: Kundalini-Yoga, Raja Yoga, Bakti-
Yoga, Gnana-Yoga, Karma Yoga, etc. In a way we will never pronounce against any of
these branches of Yoga, we are sure that as we continue with our defects of the
psychological type, by even as much yoga type feats that we accomplish, we will
indubitably continue with our dormant conscience.
Psychology offers extraordinary surprises. It is true that we, the Gnostics, have a
psychology of a revolutionary type and before thinking about much Hata-yoga, we are
more interested in the revolution of the conscience. I am sure that if people could
comprehend what the "Me" is, the "Myself" is, they could be completely and profoundly
dismayed. If anyone could look in the mirror and look at him or herself completely (full
bodied), such as it is, they would flee horrified. In addition, it is because the "Me", in true
reality, exists in a pluralized form. Indubitably, every one of the elements of "Me" is
undesirable. In every one of ourselves there is hate, envy, laziness, gluttony, fornication,
violence, etc., what good is that we become more skillful, in Hata Yoga for example, if we
continue with all of our undesired elements within our psyche? That is why it is better,
before doing contortionism in Hata Yoga, dedicate ourselves to correct ourselves, to
eliminate (from ourselves) our own psychological defects.
The conscience of the human being is dormant, deeply dormant; it's tucked in, we
could say, within each of our psychological "elements" that we possess, it is bottled
between the ego: the "me", the "myself". It could be said, with other terms, that we are
submerged in a stated of collective hypnosis.
The people are dormant. However, they ignore that they are dormant. People are in
a hypnotic trance, but they ignore that they are in a hypnotic trance; they dream that they
are awake, but they are not awake. Only by truly disintegrating the "undesired elements"
that we carry within ourselves, we could achieve the complete awakening of the
conscience and that is fundamental.
When one awakens, one can see, hear, touch or feel all of the dimensions of nature
and the cosmos, because we very well know that our world is multi-dimensional.
Master: previously we heard you mention the word "karma" (you said it was
Sanskrit), but with the studies that we have realized and what we have read, we
know that the word "Dharma" also exists, that is tied to the first. I beg that with
your kindness you give us a more ample explanation of these two very interesting
words, tied very much to the studies that the students of the Gnostic Association
realize.
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With the greatest pleasure I give answer to that interesting question.
"Karma" means "law of cause and effect": such cause, such effect. "Dharma"
means, "reward". It is said that bad actions weigh against us, that sooner or later they fall
on ourselves like a bolt of vengeance, and this is true: a bad cause can create a bad
effect, a bad action must bring a terrible consequence.
The word "Dharma" is different (it is also a Sanskrit term) and it means "reward". If
we do good, we shall gather good; if we sow good earth, we collect what we sow, it is
obvious.
So, then, "karma" and "dharma" are very interesting Sanskrit words.
In how much time where the pyramids of Egypt built and who were these
extraordinary builders?
With the greatest pleasure I shall give answer to that question.
Certainly, the pyramids of Egypt were built by the Atlantean, many thousands of
years before Jesus Christ. We consider that the great pyramid dates some 27,000 years
before Christ. And other has, more or less, similar ages. However, and even if it seems
incredible, the pyramids of Mexico are the most ancient; those were not built, as they say
in the year 1325. Absolutely not: they are much older than the Egyptians and they were
built directly by the Atlantean. Whoever says that the great Tenochtitlan was founded on
the year 1325, well they are completely wrong. And if there are those that affirm that it
was on the year 1400 or on the year 1500, they are even more mistaken (it would
coincide, then, with the arrival of the Spaniards).
So then, really, it is not possible to bring up a powerful civilization, like the one that
the Nahuas had, an extraordinary civilization like the one of the great Tenochtitlan, in the
space of one or two centuries. This results in something more than impossible.
So then, the truth is that the pyramids are much older that the ones of Egypt and
that the great Tenochtitlan was not founded one or two centuries before the arrival of the
Spaniards. No!, the great Tenochtitlan is older than one could believe, more ancient, if
you wish, than the pyramids of Egypt. Who affirm the contrary, are affirming absurd
things, because no one can rise a civilization so powerful, that the one of the great
Tenochtitlan, in the space of one or two centuries. Much more time is needed to found a
civilization of that magnitude.
Many times we ask ourselves what happens outside of our planet, but we
forget to ask about what happens in our world Earth. In this order of ideas, could
you give us an explanation about if there exists or not the famous "Yeti", this
"abominable snow man" as some writers call it?
The "Abominable Snow Man", as it has been dubbed, really exists and has been
photographed, not only in the Himalayas, but also in America. It exists in some deep
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jungles of South America, it also exists, in some places within California. Not very long
ago, a certain magazine of the United States published, precisely the photograph of the
"snow man" seen in a deep forest of California.
So, the "Yeti" exists in all the countries of our world the Earth. It is a man, but it is
seen as a beast; it has never done anything wrong to anyone, but it is hated and
persecuted by the "felony" of not wanting to come into our "super civilization" (that, as a
side comment, it has nothing of civilization). But we are selfish: we would like to see the
"Yeti" dressed with slacks, necktie and pretty shirt, fixed up to the twentieth century stile,
etc., etc., etc., but since the "Yeti" manages to stay isolated, it is pursued with dogs, with
shotguns, it is wanted dead. That is the sad reality of the "Yeti"!
Master: in the World Congress of Gnostic Anthropology, celebrated in
Guadalajara in the year 1976, we had the opportunity of hearing one of your
interesting discourses, where you talk about the planet "Hercolubus" that will pass
near the earth within a few years. Could you be so kind as to tell us at what
distance, more or less, this planet is actually at and at what time will it pass near
the Earth?
Certainly, it is the planet that the astronomers have baptized with the name of
"Barnard I". I understand that the name "Barnard" is due to an astronomer that qualified
himself as the discoverer of that planet. However, before "Barnard I" appeared in the
skies, we already talked broadly about the same, about the planet that we refer to. And let
us remember, precisely, Nostradamus: he also cited; then; the planet that comes; he
baptized it with the name "Hercolubus" (Nostradamus had his reasons to name it that).
The crude reality of the facts is that it deals of a world of the "Tylar" Solar System.
All of the "Tylar" System is getting dangerously close to the Ors Solar System, which is
the name of this, our system.
"Hercolubus" has a giant orbit and every time that world has gotten near out
system, it has produced a catastrophe. At the end of the Lemuric period, "Hercolubus" got
dangerously near to our world Earth and then the fire of the volcanoes finished with the
Lemuria.
Terrible earthquakes, as a consequence or corollary of the apparition of so many
volcanoes, made that the old continent, that would be located in the Pacific, would sink
through 10,000 years, little by little, between the wild waves of the Pacific.
When "Hercolubus" arrived at the end of the Atlantean period, it produced a
revolution of the axis of the Earth: the seas changed its bedrock and the infuriated waves
engulfed Atlantis. This is the famous "Universal Deluge", cited in oh so many religious
legends.
In this very instant, "Hercolubus" comes again: it travels, at extraordinary velocities,
thru space, following its orbit. Obviously, as it comes near to a certain distance it will be
visible to the whole world, with the naked eye and in broad daylight.
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"Hercolubus" is six times bigger than Jupiter, the titan of our solar system, and
thousands of times bigger than the Earth (it is a monster of space).
When Hercolubus gets near, the first thing that will jump to the surface, attracted by
the magnetic force of the same, will precisely be the liquid fire of the interior of the Earth.
This will burn the shell of the whole planet Earth. The geologic shell will burn, everything
that contains life will be incinerated, and when the maximum closeness of "Hercolubus"
happens a revolution of the axis of the Earth will be produced, the seas will change
bedrocks and the actual lands will be submerged in the bottom of the oceans. So then, in
true reality, a great catastrophe approaches.
The astronomers of all the observatories of the world Earth, have already done the
maps of what the great catastrophe will cause. In our institution we have a map that has
been done, not by us, but by the observatories; a highly mathematic, scientific map, about
what the great catastrophe will cause. It is a marvelous cosmogonic map. By this map we
see of what Hercolubus will affect, in first place our planet Earth, and in second place
Mars, Uranus and Jupiter, but the main impact will be felt by our own world Earth. So that,
this civilization is being called to perish within very little time... The Mayans are not that
ignorant as many illustrated people suppose. There are those that suppose that the
people of the Mayab knew nothing about Astronomy, or about mathematics, etc. Y would
put a Mayan, with mathematic calculations, to rival with the best mathematician of the
world, or any computer, and I am sure that they, with just a few grains of coffee and some
of maize, would make operations what would astound the whole world, faster than any
other computer.
The Mayans affirm, according with their mathematic calculations, that what we are
talking about Hercolubus and the great catastrophe, would be the "Katum-13" to them, the
13 katuns is something very sacred. Until now, the 12 katuns will have been completed
step by step and they await the great catastrophe, to the Katum-13... the Katum-13,
according to the Mayans, will be on the year 2043.

Samael Aun Weor
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Instituto Cultural Quetzalcoatl de Antropologa Psicoanaltica, A.C.
www.samaelgnosis.net y www.samaelgnosis.org