Jewish Book Club discussion

In our discussion of Holocaust Lit and the Jewish Book Club, we expanded into the wider area of antisemitism. How might such a discussion proceed?

If it were a matter of saying something while you still had the chance, what would you say (or write, or share, or discuss)?

I sometimes think all the many accomplishments of Jews since emancipation (as per, for example, Lebrecht's Genius & Anxiety) are due to our being in the world but not completely of the world, and that gives us an overview. But we lose that advantage when we turn on each other. We become polarized just like the general population.

What I'd like to ask here is whether we can leave the extremes and reclaim our peoplehood sufficiently to explore middle ground, in other words, to THINK?

That's what I'd be looking for. Leavened with the occasional note of humor, to keep us sane. Sanity is good.

In case my intro to the subject of antisemitism seems arcane, here's what I was getting at: regarding approaches to Israel, we have a history of some Jews calling other Jews "self-hating Jews." Several years ago I attended a class in which the instructor said not to do that because it was applying a mental-health term in a way that stifled dialogue. In other words, if one party to a discussion is mentally deranged, no dialogue is possible. Similarly, in today's landscape re identity politics and critical theory, some Jews are calling other Jews racist. If one party is deeming the other to be racist, thus morally reprehensible, then, once again, no dialogue is possible. That is what I had in mind in the introductory comment.

On the other hand we could be looking to antisemitism as a source of unity. In that case, in a sense, we would need antisemitism. Surely there are better ways to recover peoplehood.

Few years back, rabbi at my synagogue had a similar discussion, that very little can unite us as people, as sad as it sounds. Whats kosher for one Jew isnt kosher for another Jew, so to speak. Yet judgment and ugliness isnt a way to win others to your side.

Aurora,
To your point-
In a discussion with the Holocaust Studies educators, one of the
new very young, almost a baby male rabbi made a comment which went something like this, yet more eloquent... When a non-jew is in your presence, be it in a temple, synagogue or golf course, make an effort to smile.. They are there by someones asking; or on their own volition. Not to engage is wrong; it creates a type of hostility that opinions are made from. We believe in the the golden rule. Not -the one who has the gold rules.
One never knows if that guest will be related to you one day.

Hi Phoenix.
As Jan said, thank you for the news update.
I watched the news off and on today but never saw the clip you sent until a little while ago. It was random without a comment, so I wasn't sure if you were only giving an FYI or I was suppose to read between the lines. More confusing is the component of email and the tone it doesn't include with directions..
Just as a thought; it was unfortunate that Israel was the brunt of attacks today. They were small in comparison to what has been and to what they could of received.
There were many events going on there today. It was Liberation Day, and the Day of Arafah, the day before Eid al -Adha, the holiest day on the Islamic calendar. Not withstanding, was a Yeshiva student on a bike who was shot in a drive by. There was something that I'm not too clear on about a family being evicted from their home where the response was rioting.
A few Palestinian leaders began to incite their people to become angry enough to shoot rockets and sail incendiary
balloons over the border.
When the vaccine came out, news slowed down. How to sell news? Make more mountains. As of a few hours ago, the US administration was being urged to make a statement which they have not made the last I heard. Not sure the attack warrants that-yet.
Political opinions are hard to play with on a book site. It doesn't take much to set people off; I actually have seen it happen from one word :)
There is no right or wrong in an opinion, nor will anyone change another mind.
If one googles the news re the attack today, it is fascinating what is written.
Alijazeera of course blames Israel. The NYT is blaming Israel, other media reports says Hamas controls Gaza; they don't, and yet another speaks to the subject of Israeli's wanting to kill Palestinian children which couldn't be farther from the truth.
Only food for though.

Aurora wrote: "Few years back, rabbi at my synagogue had a similar discussion, that very little can unite us as people, as sad as it sounds. Whats kosher for one Jew isnt kosher for another Jew, so to speak. Yet ..."

I saw Stacey has replied already, and here's my reply as well.

Peoplehood is an interesting topic. Often in Torah study, people say the Israelites during their time in the wilderness were becoming a people, yet I often think the real topic is us, telling our story & becoming a people.

In my recent study of the reclamation of Hebrew as a modern language & early Zionism, there's also an emphasis on peoplehood, for what else was going to pull us together subsequent to erosion of traditional religion by modernity?

It's definitely hard to see with a detail orientation. Got to pull back & get the wider picture. This group itself may be a little example. ☺️

So i subscribe to book riot. Yesterday i received an article that they wrote, recommending six books written by palestinian women exploring identity, etc. I cant help ut wonder why there wasnt an article that had six books written by Israeli women exploring our identity? Also, i am pro Israel.

Also, maybe its me, but does anyone else feel that progressive party that is attached to democrats is very anti Jewish?

Aurora wrote: "Also, maybe its me, but does anyone else feel that progressive party that is attached to democrats is very anti Jewish?"

I saw the same thing. I wasnt surprised, just disappointed. I know the books are promoted on a schedule and some are sponsored, but there could have been some additional books added to even out the keel. Not so different from the articles in the media written all of a sudden by people I didn't recognize.
Per your second comment, I think there are some, but it seems to be drifting that way. Not sure they are anti -jewish per se, I think they have non progressive viewpoints meaning they feel that Israel is
oppressing the Palestinians.

If the ladies did more for Jews, i wouldnt call them anti-Jewish, but actions speak louder than words. If they care for Muslim plight, why arent any of them concerned about Uighirs who are living in far worse conditions? Why havent any of them condemned anti-Jewish actions like synagogue shootings or anything else in America? If i am wrong, you are welcome to point it out to me. I am open minded, but i am tired of being gaslighted by media and progressives.

Aurora wrote: "If the ladies did more for Jews, i wouldnt call them anti-Jewish, but actions speak louder than words. If they care for Muslim plight, why arent any of them concerned about Uighirs who are living i..."
I hear you. You are not wrong. I don't have an answer other than they are of the belief that jews should not have their own country. Because this about Israel being a state, a single issue at the end of the day.

Aurora wrote: "So i subscribe to book riot. Yesterday i received an article that they wrote, recommending six books written by palestinian women exploring identity, etc. I cant help ut wonder why there wasnt an a..."

Another example of being "othered!"
In my city, Jews held a solidarity event that got no press. I happened to watch the local news last Sat. night when the national news was replaced by sports, and they covered a pro-Palestinian march downtown as though the claims were fact. So, yes.

Stacey wrote: "Aurora wrote: "Also, maybe its me, but does anyone else feel that progressive party that is attached to democrats is very anti Jewish?"

I saw the same thing. I wasnt surprised, just disappointed. ..."

The Democratic party should be happy at continued craziness coming from the Trumpish side, since as far as I can tell that's a big part of what's holding the Democrats together.

Aurora wrote: "If the ladies did more for Jews, i wouldnt call them anti-Jewish, but actions speak louder than words. If they care for Muslim plight, why arent any of them concerned about Uighirs who are living in far worse conditions? Why havent any of them condemned anti-Jewish actions like synagogue shootings or anything else in America? If i am wrong, you are welcome to point it out to me. I am open minded, but i am tired of being gaslighted by media and progressives"

They do condemn them, but briefly, and then it falls out of the news cycle. That silence is permission giving. And why I disagree with the theories that place anti-Judaism on only one side of the political spectrum.

You know, it's hard to articulate stuff. I grew up blind and silenced on these matters, and had to have an awakening.

Philip Roth has a quote I love:
"Everything dictated silence and self-control but I couldn't restrain myself and spoke my mind."

Thinking required, too.
Don't forget nominations! 🌷
Jan

As a Jewish educated woman, I am very upset with my Jewish friends who KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HOW ISRAEL IS DEFENDING THEMSELVES, NOT ATTACKING. I LIVE in Southern California, and was in a very Orthodox neighborhood to see a movie in the early part of 2020. My father, may he Rest In Peace, was in a wheelchair. He had just had surgery for a broken hip. We were dining in a NON JEWISH MIDDLE EASTERN RESTAURANT. We heard loud name-calling, kicking, punching, and filth at the young Orthodox men who were walking home from Shul. My father who could not stand wanted to go assist the young men. The owner of the restaurant gave hid the bill with a $20 surcharge when he heard that we were Jewish, although did not look as such. I tried to call the police but my phone was dead. I asked to use the owner of the restraints and was told No cause they don't stand up for themselves.

Last night a group of Jewish men were eating dinner outside and we're attacked with tables, chairs, and broken glasses because they were Jewish. These men were minding their own business but Palestinians on the back of a pick truck attacked them.

The police are reviewing to see if it looked to be a racial incident. President Biden wants Israel to back down. My Jewish friends don't see it as wrong. But we die, we are there supporting all others.

I as a result have the NEED to go to a kosher restaurants and DEMONSTRATE MY PRIDE. hated, although we are always there

Jan wrote: "Aurora wrote: "If the ladies did more for Jews, i wouldnt call them anti-Jewish, but actions speak louder than words. If they care for Muslim plight, why arent any of them concerned about Uighirs w..."

I am not calling Republicans perfect party for Jews either lol. Their hardcore groups are the ones that want to convert every Jew out of existence so their "savior" can come back to earth. I guess point i want to say is that both parties are like a rock or a hard place. I was taught too, dont rock the boat, let it go. Or, what can you do? Nothing in truth, as sad as it sounds. I often feel that when it comes to Judaism, neither Muslims nor christians will ever get a reckoning over how they treated us, or appropriated our beliefs and culture. I am sorry, but that is something i feel mad and angry about.

Rhonda wrote: "As a Jewish educated woman, I am very upset with my Jewish friends who KNOW NOTHING ABOUT HOW ISRAEL IS DEFENDING THEMSELVES, NOT ATTACKING. I LIVE in Southern California, and was in a very Orthodo..."

Forward carried that, Rhonda. Way over on the other side of the country, I read that story this morning.

Rehearsal of the narrative about how it's "the Jews' fault" points in that direction. And then we might hear "understandable" and "expected," followed by "what they deserve." That's why for me the answer is the counter-narrative, since the accepted one is false.
When people get a causal theory on what happened and why (the provocations -- and there will always be provocations because perfection has not arrived) that blinds them to and conceals other variables, such as Abbas needing to cancel elections, the improving relationship with Arabs in Israel, the fact that an Arab party was going to participate in the unity government, the fact that Hamas had been losing popularity, that Netanyahu could not form a government after 5 tries and his opponent was getting a chance -- the fact of progress -- of change -- all this impacts Hamas' raison d'etre and is an existential threat to them. That's why they had to assert themselves. Not to free Palestine. Not for peace. Peace is Hamas' biggest nightmare.
Deflecting blame onto Israel did not help Israel and instead helped usher in the age of Trump over here. I hope to hell we won't go back there because without our democracy, what will we do then?
The above is the rough and ready version of some of my thoughts. Sorry so rough.
Take care, Rhonda.
Jan

Aurora wrote: "...I am not calling Republicans perfect party for Jews either lol. Their hardcore groups are the ones that want to convert every Jew out of existence so their "savior" can come back to earth. I guess point i want to say is that both parties are like a rock or a hard place. I was taught too, dont rock the boat, let it go. Or, what can you do? Nothing in truth, as sad as it sounds. I often feel th..."

I'm with you there.
The polarization, whereby we're not with the progressives, so therefore we must be Trumpists, is a trap. Thanks for speaking out against it, Rhonda.

I would say more, but I am out of energy for the evening!

Aurora, Rhonda and Jan-
What you say I agree with- with exception of how I feel at this moment- said below.
You know the type of person who believes what the last person tells them?
Regardless of their "party", when American and Israeli jews speak out against specific issues they know little about, it devalues Israel-
and those ramifications encourage and inflate antisemitism that much more, putting a cunning smile on the face of Hamas.
The news today in NYC, California, including a protest in Boca Raton, no less- is frightening. Terrorizing jews as we know is at the ultimate high.
We worry about Israel, the USA and all other countries who are recipients.
My question is who is watching our backs right this moment? Whoever our hero may be, cant stop what is taking place now, or tomorrow.
For me, we are way past the political zone re antisemitism- It is a hate bred forever and snowballed. It rears its ugly head sometimes piggybacking on issues de jour, but most times not, because it doesn't need a reason. This morning many others joined the Palestinians on the streets in terrorizing a religion on their way to work. Does it matter any more who shoots first. Evidently not.
Social media plays one of the largest role in this nightmare.
I have seen no encouraging voice posted on our behalf.

Stacey wrote: "Aurora, Rhonda and Jan-
What you say I agree with- with exception of how I feel at this moment- said below.
You know the type of person who believes what the last person tells them?
Regardless of t..."

Well, here's one way I sometimes view these issues: there's the external situation, and then there's the battle in each of our heads. Mostly people ignore the internal battle and go straight to the external. Which you have to do if somebody is physically jumping on you personally. But in case that isn't happening at the moment, it can be useful to get things a little straighter in our heads. And that's easier said than done. That is why I wanted to have the genre we're having for the nominations, for example. And I'm not meaning to insult anybody. If anybody thinks I am, we can talk about that next week. Just saying. It comes from being in the diaspora, being pickled in our society and its views. We are not unscathed. Nor is fixing it nothing. In psychology, one is imbalanced when either angry or feeling guilty; the former is imbalanced by leaning forward, the latter by leaning backward. When one is straight, one is solid, poised, flexible. I like being able to respond from that position, not from a hopeless position. We will be the stronger for it. So, 1st step may not be getting the world changed but getting one's internal "family" together.

So we talk about it. Here.

Finally, getting our comedians mobilized 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D81jh...

Shabbat shalom, y'all

Where did my post go?
My comment today was prefaced by the one I wrote last night which is disappeared.
Does anyone remember it being there- it had to do with the court case requesting 70 Palestinians to move, and at the end I wrote that my friends house was blown up in Ashkelon with memories,,etc?

I have found that several of my posts never appeared. all when I pushed reply and instead of getting this nice new box in which I am currently writing, I got a box with the post to which I was trying to reply and my post didn't seem to register.

in any event there are lots of other forums to discuss The Middle East and as I am on the boards of several of them, I would prefer to read about and post about books here and only politics as it relates to what we should or might read. Sorry for being this way, those who know me that I can debate politics for hours but I look to this site for book recommendations and discussions.

Shelly,
Thank you for responding. There has also been instances where people have "liked" my books- which I never added or read.
That makes me nervous; Im not sure how someone can do that, since my password changes quite frequently .

I understand how you feel in regards to your additional comment..
"AS" actually morphed from books members read that were anywhere from Historical to Contemporary.
We saw there was a need to include this additional topic, among receiving requests for it because it does go hand in hand.
We included it, but separated it as it's own topic header- partly for the reasons you bring up because as you said, there are forums for politics.
"AS" is a thread where members can feel comfortable voicing their concerns , questions, etc.
My personal feeling is that when the unexpected rocks the soul, it's sometimes difficult to find the ability to compartmentalize the passion we are overwhelmed with.

Shelley wrote: "...in any event there are lots of other forums to discuss The Middle East and as I am on the boards of several of them, I would prefer to read about and post about books here and only politics as it relates to what we should o..."

Shelley, thanks for bringing this up.
I am on board w/Stacey's reply but want to put in my own 2¢..., make that 5¢... -- oh, heck, $1.00's worth as well.

I understand your point of not wanting to discuss politics or Israel-Palestine here. It's just that silence is also a response, and not always the one we'd like to stop with.
Will seek the happy medium!

----------

When there is a silence, it can cover an avoidant posture, a "thing" we are "not allowed" to talk about. It occurs to me that then we might overemphasize Holocaust books, for example, for the simple reason that in our society we are permitted (or at least have been permitted) to talk about that as an "approved" topic. Other subjects as well: I'm now reading a YA novel set in Atlanta during the time I was actually growing up there.

I originally had in mind we would use this thread to talk about issues in books. For ex, somebody reads a book that "others" her as a Jew. But then we get a narrative unfolding like a serial in our newsfeed -- and that story is being told in a way that others us. As Stacey said, we may need to talk about it; don't want to set barriers against that. For sure will be seeking that happy medium!

-----------

Would just like to tack on that criticizing the antisemitism in books isn't necessarily considered acceptable either. For example Anthony Julius was the 1st to take on the T. S. Eliot passages from within the academy. It used to be considered that those criticizing art were being oversensitive, and it was their problem. Julius describes his experiences here: https://www.theguardian.com/books/200...
He's a rather impressive person; an attorney as well as a literary critic, he handled Princess Diana's divorce and defended Deborah Lipstadt.

There is a lot we're not supposed to talk about, it seems! So even if we flounder at times, would rather err on the side of talking.

Thinking before we speak -- a good idea when we can manage it!

I apologize for bringing up the topic, but sometimes you want to hear or know that you arent alone in your feelings or thoughts. I also would like to mention that i am not spamming a book topic or anything like that.

My parents and i are from Russia, and we had completely different experiences where they cant understand or relate to me, and i cannot relate or understand them. For my news, i read yahoo alot, and one can guess what tack they take when it comes to recent events in Middle East...thus I sometimes need to rave and rant or say out my feelings. Maybe there can be politics thread so youd know not to go there?

Aurora wrote: "I apologize for bringing up the topic, but sometimes you want to hear or know that you arent alone in your feelings or thoughts. I also would like to mention that i am not spamming a book topic or ..."

Aurora-
No need to apologize.
It makes no difference who brought the subject up.
It's a frightening real concern that's staring us right in the face.. Everyone was caught off guard, and every one is concerned and nervous. The rants are knee jerk reactions.
And Aurora, if the responses you read helped, I'm really glad.
I think I said earlier this topic is here for a reason. This is really the first time politics came into view, on here. I think Jan said this new release of a story wasn't told from a book, it was told through different media.
Its hard to compartmentalize emotion.
We received a comment about politics today that doesn't warrant an apology from you. It was an opinion. The antisemitism that we are seeing now in the news and what Rhonda witnessed is real, and that belongs here.

To change the subject for a minute -- if anybody on this page (or anyone who sees this) is willing to make a nomination for our July read, please do so. We could use one or two more nominations!
Go to this nomination thread to nominate a work of Jewish literature you'd like to read or see us read. ♥

In thinking about the best approach here ("the happy medium," as I termed it above), I still like the idea of "narrative," since we are about stories and plots -- which play out in "real life" as well as in the books we read. I do think about it quite a bit anyway, so no wonder.

Also, of course, when it comes up in books.

Keeping it short tonight, since I'm focusing on the upcoming poll.
Jan

Michael-
Pertaining to your comment on the other thread,
you mention not forgetting "hero's" of the Holocaust.
They come in all forms, as did the hero's in your book.
Have you read "Unstoppable" by Joshua Greene?
Wonderful book, I'm thinking you may know the author.

Stacey suggested posting my comment in this discussion thread.

History of Jewish presence in Switzerland goes back to the 13th century. It didn't take long for persecution to follow. In 1294 Bern executed and expelled Jews using the false libel they killed a Christian boy. They were accused of poisoning wells. In 1349 six-hundred Jews were burned at the stake, others forced to convert to Catholicism. Banishment from Swiss Cantons took place in the 17th century. At the time of the American Revolution guaranteeing freedom of religion, Switzerland forced Jews into two villages and restricted professions. Houses were built with separate entrances for Jews and Christians. Complete freedom and equality did not occur until 1876. When the Nazis took control, Switzerland demanded Germany stamp J on passports for Jews. Some were granted refugee status, most denied entry. (I have friends from Belgium and France whose families escaped through Switzerland. The Swiss authorities stripped them of anything valuable, leaving them almost penniless. Fortunately, HIAS, American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee, Jewish Agency assisted their transportation out of Europe.)

Michael wrote: "Stacey suggested posting my comment in this discussion thread.

History of Jewish presence in Switzerland goes back to the 13th century. It didn't take long for persecution to follow. In 1294 Bern ..."
Perfect!!!!

I just finished reading The Conversion, by Aharon Appelfeld (1998). In the years before World War II, Karl Hübner was living in a small town in Austria. He worked in the municipal office, but, because he was a Jew, knew that he wouldn’t be able to rise any higher in his job. He, thus, converted to Christianity solely to advance his career. Prior to his decision to convert, he had visions of his mother telling him that it would be okay to convert for job advancement. Most of his close classmates from school had already converted, thus he was simply taking steps to conform to the norms of his town and for social acceptance.

Karl, now a Christian (at least on paper), does, indeed get the promotion. He is surprised to learn, however, that the promotion did not bring him the happiness that he envisioned. Karl and his school friends learn that conversion to Christianity does not social acceptance in a country that fears Jews. They are often reminded that the conversion did not truly make them non-Jews. Although Karl was brought up in a secular Jewish home, he did absorb its values. He has a strong moral code and stands up for injustice. When he sees Jews being mocked and abused, he calls out the abusers.

Karl lives with his housekeeper, Gloria. It was not clear to me whether or not Gloria was Jewish, but she maintains the Jewish rituals and traditions that she learned from Karl’s mother. She observes the High Holidays each year, which at first surprised the newly converted Karl.

As antisemitism increases in their Austrian town, Karl decides to return to the home of his parents. He resigned his job, sold his house and traveled to Rosow. Sadly, antisemitism is everywhere. Although Karl and Gloria were initially very happy in their new location, they find that they cannot escape the hatred surrounding them.

3 Stars

Hahtoolah wrote: "I just finished reading The Conversion, by Aharon Appelfeld (1998). In the years before World War II, Karl Hübner was living in a small town in Austria. He worked in the municipal office, but, beca..."

Hahtoolah-
I just finished reading your comment a la review.
For me, not having read the book, it read as a parable in addition to a few more underlying points-??
"You can run from your problems but they will follow you"
I think the book was written in 1999 - fast forward to today 2021.
You both make the same point twenty two years apart.

Hi, I read the book a year or two ago. three stars seems right. I found it to be slow moving with an overall feeling of sadness. There was no happiness or joy in their lives. I agree that the housekeeper was not Jewish, because it surprised him when she did follow the holiday rituals.
It seems that throughout history, even when there is a conversion, whether real or on paper, the person is considered Jewish by the community - Spain in the 1300 and 1400's , Germany, Europe in the 20th Century. The conversion adds a new layer of complexity, of how to live,talk, think.
The conversion, if I remember, just fell into place, without a strong commitment or decision. He did make a decision when he stood up for injustice and when he moved.

Interesting comments which brings me to a question I want to ask for educational stats.

How many people do you know of, if any, that have
converted from Judaism to a different religion?
I would assume it would have no bearing on fear as it did in our history.
I know of five. One young family, one female and three males.
The female and one male was for their spouse, and the young family
wanted to hob knob with the social society scene .
The last male said Judaism let him down.

Stacey wrote: "Interesting comments which brings me to a question I want to ask for educational stats.

How many people do you know of, if any, that have
converted from Judaism to a different religion?
I would as..."

Answering that question at long last:
I found a second cousin through Ancestry whose grandfather had converted. My maternal grandparents were from such large families! The second cousin says he did it b/c "it was nobody's business what his religion was." He was a little defensive and I thought he was treating Judaism as a religion only (not as a people).

While in Europe those who converted were still Jews, America is different, don't you think?

Jan wrote: "Stacey wrote: "Interesting comments which brings me to a question I want to ask for educational stats.

How many people do you know of, if any, that have
converted from Judaism to a different relig..."

Agree 100% - but on their own volition.
Europe was a threat.

Let's look at this from the other side. Numbers of those who choose to become Jews have risen in the U.S. According to Pew Research Center, among Americans with one Jewish parent, young adults are more likely than older generations to identify as Jewish today. The “net” Jewish adult population seems to be keeping pace with the steadily growing U.S. population, rising from an estimated 5.3 million in 2013 (2.2% of U.S. adults) to 5.8 million in 2020 (2.4%). Identifying as Jewish ranges from religious identity to cultural, ethical, moral convictions.

For an interesting view of why individuals leave their religion of birth to become Jews by Choice, suggest reading the late Rabbi Harold M. Schulweis’ book “Judaism: Embracing the Seeker”, an anthology of essays written by Jews by Choice (including a few rabbis) that may be enlightening.

Michael wrote: "Let's look at this from the other side. Numbers of those who choose to become Jews have risen in the U.S. According to Pew Research Center, among Americans with one Jewish parent, young adults are ..."

Great point Michael.

Yes, that is a good point, Michael. Lots of converts in. Judaism: Reaching Out and Embracing the Seeker -- this is all that's showing on Goodreads. I did find a few out there. Variable name.

Stacey, if we get into the idea of those in Europe converting out of Judaism because of duress while those in the US do so by choice, that takes us into the whole idea of free will. 🧐 A lot converted because they were tired of what had happened in Europe. And because they could, I guess.

I have a book on conversion that I haven't read: Strange Gods: A Secular History of Conversion I got it because the author had found out her father was Jewish. He had hidden it.

Jan- Im not saying the sole cause was simply duress. But I agree it is probably different without the ability to validate it.
Throughout history ,jews were made to convert and did so but kept their practice of Judaism. Through the span of time, it became more common, and the practice of Judaism became abandoned. But we will never really know what the accurate reasons were and are.
Im certainly no authority, nor do I claim it. There are books that give many opposite opinions, so I suppose it is a combination of reasons as well as maybe reading two books to recognize what the opposite opinions were in Europe.
There are those who convert from Judaism as we speak and leave it in total.
Whether its because of a potential spouse, or becoming accepted in their community, or wanting to live in a specific neighborhood - its all inclusive. I see people and families convert, sending their children to church and switch to private catholic schools.. Some say their god let them down and lost faith. Whether its different today in Europe, I cant say.

You're right, Stacey -- no final answers! Leads to good discussion, though!

I developed a fascination with books about people who found out their families had hidden their Jewish roots. This didn't happen to me, but I still was interested. I read the memoir by the same person who wrote the book on conversion -- Susan Jacoby, Half-Jew: A Daughter's Search for Her Family's Buried Past Her great-grandfather came over after the failed 1848 revolutions in Europe that led to backlash against Jews.

Here's a quote I like from the preface:

In my father's and grandfather's generations, there were of course many ways for a Jew to respond to the tantalizing American combination of unprecedented opportunities for Jewish advancement with anti-Semitic barriers that could not always be anticipated. The Jacobys' long concerted effort to transform themselves into gentiles was one such response. This book is my attempt to understand what was gained and what was lost in that incomplete transformation.

Brenda wrote: "My husband and I were ordained United Methodist minister and we both have converted to Judaism (Reform)."

Hi, Brenda. What do you think about the saying that nowadays we're all Jews by choice? Does that diminish your experience or illuminate it?

I also read a double memoir by Helen Fremont, After Long Silence and The Escape Artist. Her parents went to extreme lengths to hide that they were survivors.

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I... did not post the above message. To see this makes me feel I was compromised again. I am also not fluent in hieroglyphics.

Hiding who you are.
A number of years ago I met Howard Fast in his Hollywood Hills home. He wrote "Spartacus", "My Glorious Brothers", and "Torquemada: A Novel" among dozens of books. He gave me permission to adapt "Torquemada" for the screen. The screenplay opens in Albuquerque, New Mexico where an elderly Hispanic woman is dying. She refuses the Last Rites from her son, a Catholic priest, and reveals they are Jewish. For generations, the secret passed down from mothers to daughters since the Mexican Inquisition began in 1571. Hidden in her jewel box is a sterling silver mezuzah brought to the New World from Spain. That object takes the story back to 1492 Spain and Torquemada's reign of terror. The Albuquerque story is based on a real-life event.

Stacey wrote: "I... did not post the above message. To see this makes me feel I was compromised again. I am also not fluent in hieroglyphics."

It must be some sort of hacking. Do a screen shot & report to Goodreads. And then you can delete.

After it came through on a notification, I was going to have to tell you I didn't know what it meant...

Michael wrote: "Hiding who you are.
A number of years ago I met Howard Fast in his Hollywood Hills home. He wrote "Spartacus", "My Glorious Brothers", and "Torquemada: A Novel" among dozens of books. He gave me pe..."

Wow. Still thinking about that, Michael.

Now thats a name from the past. He was a great author; read most of his books.
I never read "Torquemada: A Novel". Sounds like I missed good book and adaptation.
Many novels were written about "Hiding who you are ". Most
are similar in the ending- usually before a death, tragedy, etc.
"My Mothers Secret", "They Forgot to tell me I was Jewish"
and lets not forget Madeline Albright, who found out she was jewish
at 59 yrs old.