Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vasily Nikitin

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete and redirect‎ to Luhansk People’s Republic#Government. The keep arguments are more in hope and expectation then source based. As already mentiined elsewhere the redirect is an editorial decision Spartaz ^Humbug! 06:58, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Vasily Nikitin

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The article does not meet WP:Notability, no source about him before and after 2014. Panam2014 (talk) 16:53, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 August 3. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 17:19, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and Uzbekistan. Shellwood (talk) 18:05, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Russia and Ukraine. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 18:09, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Passes WP:NPOL as a former prime minister, albeit of a country recognized by almost nobody other than Russia. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 18:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Eastmain: LPR was a at best a proto-state but certainly not initially. Panam2014 (talk) 18:22, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
An earlier version of the article at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Vasily_Nikitin&oldid=1123783394 had additional references, some of which were removed because an editor thought they were not reliable. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 18:34, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — Karnataka ^talk 19:23, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. NPOL does not extend "inherent" notability to the heads of provisional breakaway governments that aren't internationally recognized as legitimate — it extends notability only to the leaders of recognized governments, while leaders of unrecognized governments get no instant free passes and have to actually be shown to pass WP:GNG. So an article would be perfectly fine if he could be shown to have considerably more reliable source coverage than this — but as written, this is based 4/5 on primary sources that aren't support for notability at all, and the one footnote that does appear to be a valid source isn't enough all by itself. Bearcat (talk) 16:07, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Where in WP:NPOL does it mention international recognition or provisional governments? I don't see that anywhere in the policy. The policy says "Politicians and judges who have held international, national, or (for countries with federal or similar systems of government) state/province–wide office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels" and his position seems to be either a national office or a province-wide office (of a breakaway province). Either way it seems to me he'd meet WP:NPOL. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 18:08, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Simple logic demonstrates that if simply declaring oneself the head of an unrecognized micronation were in and of itself sufficient to exempt a person from having to pass WP:GNG on their sourceability, then every human being on earth could get an instant Wikipedia inclusion freebie just by posting to TwitterX or Instagram that their apartment was now an independent micronation, and thus bypassing all of our notability standards. And besides, even national heads of state still have to pass WP:GNG anyway — the only concession they get is "GNG-building coverage will almost certainly exist, so don't rush the article into the garbage can just because of a temporary state of inadequacy caused by Wikipedians' laziness in finding it", not "this person is exempted from ever having to have any RS coverage at all". Bearcat (talk) 12:44, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The micronation analogy is a strawman. There is fundamental difference between declaring a microstate and being part of an armed uprising's government in a rebelling province. The latter is far more notable. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 14:24, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not without reliable sourcing to support the content, it ain't. Bearcat (talk) 21:42, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Bearcat. --Yakudza (talk) 16:22, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Found no WP:SIGCOV in English sources, likely to be in Rus/Ukr. An WP:ATD could be a redirect to Luhansk People's Republic#Government, where he is listed. I would imagine that as a rebel leader, he's more likely to be notable than not, but obviously this has to be proved by reliable sources; in this case, WP:Draftification could also be a decent option. Curbon7 (talk) 21:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: because there have been an earlier version before, and he was confirmed to have born in Uzbekistan, as seen here, [1]. Ivan Milenin (talk) 17:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:47, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Soft Keep or Draftify: I'd be comfortable keeping the article as meeting WP:NPOL since there is a high probability of additional sourcing existing in Russian or Ukrainian (per Curbon7). The Russian language article currently uses some sources we don't and that is probably worth noting (expansion is possible with some translating). Finally, if there is still concern that we don't have enough WP:RS we should probably draftify (per Curbon7) since this person will probably have enough sourcing for an article eventually. I do not find the microstate argument persuasive and think LPR and DPR politicians are probably fundamentally different from microstate founders. TulsaPoliticsFan (talk) 14:33, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@TulsaPoliticsFan: I have checked Russian and Ukrainian sources, there are no enough sources for independent article. Panam2014 (talk) 15:02, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.