Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tim Bosma

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. A bit of a mess of a debate with several contributors bolding more than one term. This is a delete not on the numbers of votes, but on the policy arguments employed. For the most part, the keep arguments were for waiting to see how this develops. No rationale was advanced for why the counterargument (WP:CRYSTAL) should not apply or should be ignored. Those keep arguments that were not along those lines argued from general notability (WP:GNG) but did not address the delete argument of WP:NOTNEWS. The delete arguments of WP:CRIME and WP:BLP1E would have been valid until the article was renamed half way through this debate. Some contributers wished to move this article to Dellen Millard. Since that article has been created during the course of this debate that is no longer possible. However, I will be more than happy to userfy the article for anyone wishing to merge more material into that article. SpinningSpark 00:34, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Tim Bosma

Tim Bosma (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Classic case of BLP1E. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 21:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

• Not notable in the slightest. This is just a missing person ad. John of Cromer in Philippines transit (talk) mytime= Mon 00:29, wikitime= 23:29, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. czar · · 00:05, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. czar · · 00:05, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Captain Conundrum (talk) 10:55, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: the crime might be notable per WP:EVENT, even if the person isn't per WP:BLP1E. It's WP:TOOSOON to say whether the crime will be notable, with long-lasting and significant coverage, but it's currently getting national coverage in the Canadian press. Might be a good idea to WP:USERFY this for a few weeks. Then if the event turns out to be notable per WP:CRIME, WP:GNG, etc, rename it to something like Kidnapping of Tim Bosma. Captain Conundrum (talk) 10:55, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

• I think it is sick to have a Twitter-like article about an on-going crime investigation. If the victim is found alive, it becomes yesterdays news. If he is not found alive, it becomes another tabloid crime story along with thousands of others. This is wikipedia scraping the bottom of the barrel - from underneath. It is an utter disgrace that this article has not been deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.118.175 (talk) 13:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Are you saying that Wikpedia articles should never be written about ongoing crime investigations, no matter how long the investigation takes? It's also not yet certain which crime has taken place, and that Bosma is alive and well, as in the Runaway bride case. One person has been charged (but not tried) for the forcible confinement of Bosma and theft of his vehicle. Reliable sources including the CBC and the National Post are covering the story, not just lurid supermarket tabloids, because the event appears to be a matter of national significance. Captain Conundrum (talk) 13:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: This Crime is currently receiving Canadian Nation Wide Attention. I agree with Captain Conundrum that though the crime might be notable per WP:EVENT, even if the person isn't per WP:BLP1E As per news reports there has been arrest made in this case however Mr Tim Bosma has not been located at this time as per CBC News report , there is evidence that suggests that the accused may have previously attempted a kidnapping earlier last week. . It's WP:TOOSOON to say whether the crime will be notable, perhaps its best to wait and see. PersonZ777 (talk) 15:27, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

• Keep, wait and see. I personally searched for this article to get caught up on details I may not yet have known, as I've been behind on the news of late. -Andrew (talk) 16:38, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Same.

• Should be deleted. There is nothing to distinguish this murder as notable. With a relatively low murder rate, all murders in Canada get national attention. The crime would need to affect society in some way: change of laws, movie based on crime, etc. it is far too early for any article to be created. BashBrannigan (talk) 16:23, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Notable? Name another like it in Canada. Try to buy a used truck online recently? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.57.40.143 (talk) 16:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Comment: This Crime is currently under investigation and receiving Canadian Nation Wide Attention from reliable sources, I don't agree that this article should be deleted, I vote Keep however given that there has been an arrest made in this case it is important that Wikipedians are careful with the information provided on this article so as to not jeopardize the investigation. The accused has been noted to be the grandson of Millardair founder Carl Millard (1913-2006) as stated the investigation is still pending however Dellen Millard, 27, of Toronto, has been charged with forcible confinement and theft over $5,000. Tim Bosma has been found dead on May 14, 2013 as per Hamilton, Ontario Police given the circumstances wait and see.PersonZ777 (talk) 17:27, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Keep. The alleged murderer, or possible conspirator in Bosma's disappearance is the youngest person in Canada to fly a plane and possibly the youngest person in the world to fly a helicopter solo[1]. Nearly 100,000 people joined in an effort to search for him on Facebook, comprising one of the largest Facebook efforts in Canadian Internet history. This made the news nationally in Canada, and border services[2] got involved in the investigation as well, which involved multiple municipal areas with a combined population of over one million. ~AH1 ^(discuss!) 17:29, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Keep But wait and see. I think the notability of the accuse may make this notable, or maybe in the end there should be an article about the accused, with this murder comprising a section. But I'll tell ya, a bunch of people sharing a bloody Facebook picture does not "newsworthy" make. Yeesh. →mrs smartygirl← | Talk 19:59, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Keep Seems to have just passed the thresholds of WP:NEWSEVENT and WP:CRIME. --Drm310 (talk) 20:30, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Still delete I still contend the article should be deleted. From WP:NESEVENT: " A rule of thumb for creating a Wikipedia article is whether the event is of lasting, historical significance." At the moment this fails this criteria. There's no social, political or fame-element that distinguishes this crime. It's being argued that the people involved have some notability. If that's the case then do any of those already have a Wikipedia bio article? I'm finding the keep argument very unconvincing. BashBrannigan (talk) 21:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Move Fair enough, then perhaps move this to an article on Dellen Millard (who is notable by WP:BIO for past achievements) and expand? --Drm310 (talk) 22:03, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• Move I'm changing my "keep" to a "move" since I'm not the only one who feels this way. eta: I started a Dellen Millard page if anyone wants to contribute →mrs smartygirl← | Talk 16:33, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

• Delete A terrible tragedy, to be sure, but yes, a textbook case of failing WP:CRIME. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
• Comment - It is somewhat notable, but may be too soon to be sure. Bearian (talk) 19:14, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
• Delete I usually am very inclusive about the rule for NOT NEWS, but thisseems exactly the sort of article to which it should apply. DGG ( talk ) 01:15, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Keep I honestly see nothing wrong with this except it could be a bit better by renaming it 'Tim Bosma' but other than that, I don't see how this article is considered a 'Tabloid', 'Twitter', or 'A disgrace to Wikipedia'. I know that the Boston Marathon bombings started the same way, and I know none of us would want that deleted. buffbills (talk) 19:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC)
• Keep for now - the ongoing investigation into Millard's properties and past indicates there may be more here yet. A merge into Dellen Millard may yet be the best path, but I say keep things as they are for now until more details emerge. Radagast (talk) 14:07, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
• Keep for now. This is currently a huge case and getting daily updates in national media. Like all current events and BLP articles it needs to be treated with plenty of care and might ultimately be merged somewhere, but outright deletion right now doesn't make sense. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:35, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

That is WP:CRYSTALBALL reasoning, as are many of the other keep votes, IRWolfie- (talk) 20:30, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.