Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nir Yitzhak massacre

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) CycloneYoris ^talk! 07:32, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nir Yitzhak massacre

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Low number of casualties. Not notable. We have a dozen of articles of massacres about the 7 October attack. We shouldn't give an article to every village where civilians were killed. That's a very low and unprecedented threshold of notability. This article is also pretty similar to most of the articles of that dozen. It can easily be merged and covered in another one as it is short. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 10:05, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Israel and Palestine. Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 10:05, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I don't see why its a problem. Common that events are broken down into components. Especially with 2023 Israel-Hamas war article being so big. Massacre mentioned by several sources. [1],[2],[3],[4] (A TV documentary filmed on the event). Article is also extensive enough for it to be adequate.[5],[6],[7],[8],[9] more sources that mention it. Actually the event has a rather unique interesting story. Also received lots of media attention, especially in Hebrew. Homerethegreat (talk) 18:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore, the 2023 Israel Hamas War talk is trying to make more articles to take down the load from the heavy main article. Homerethegreat (talk) 18:25, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or merge to 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, where all of the less notable attacks on locales near Gaza should be clumped. Worth noting that the source quoted for the three deaths at this locale refers to the '7 Oct massacre' as a collective - it's not really asserting that the events at this locale individually constitute a standalone massacre, but rather that the events at this locale form part of the wider '7 Oct massacre' across the Gaza-adjacent locales. The NYT and BBC sources do not even appear to mention "Nir Yitzhak", making whatever information is linked to those particular sources WP:SYNTH, and leaving us with only the Times of Israel, Ynet and a few other Hebrew sources, and no WP:RSP. Iskandar323 (talk) 10:38, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime and Events. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to 2023 Hamas attack on Israel, not really significant enough to be merged. AryKun (talk) 20:08, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 13:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into article about Nir Yitzhak where it is already mentioned in a single sentence in the History section but not wiki-linked from that article. This article should be a sub-topic of that kibbutz's history. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 22:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Hamas attack on Nir Yitzhak; It's important to clarify that notability in Wikipedia is not based on the number of casualties. As per WP:NOTABILITY, the key criterion is whether the subject has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject. In this case, the Nir Yitzhak incident has been reported on extensively by reputable sources, as evidenced by the links provided by Homerethegreat. This coverage demonstrates the global and persistent interest in the event, fulfilling the general notability guideline.
- Furthermore, the argument for a "move" rather than a "delete" or "merge" is supported by WP:EVENTCRIT, which emphasizes the lasting effects and historical significance of events. The fact that a massacre was prevented (to a significant extent) by the Kibbutz's rapid response team who were able to repel the invaders, adds a dimension to the story, highlighting its significance in a broader context. The term "attack" provides a more accurate description of the event . Marokwitz (talk) 19:04, 12 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP: Hi, I read the rules for this so hopefully my contribution is allowed here (did not see an EC tag). :The Nir Yitzchak Attack is significant due to the resistance at the Kibbutz against Hamas - similar to stories from World War Two where there were select uprisings that fought the Nazis. :We know that the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was the largest and most consistent, but Wikipedia still has articles about the other uprisings much much smaller such as Czortków uprising and even the Lwów uprising. These are not judged by casualties but significance of resistance. :Also, for consistency with the following list: List of engagements during the 2023 Israel–Hamas war the page serves as a valid link. Chavmen (talk) 23:39, 12 November 2023 (UTC) The page is indeed covered by WP:ARBPIA and so related internal project discussions are EC restricted. Iskandar323 (talk) 05:21, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Sources in article meet GNG, eg: BBC, New York Times, Times of Israel. // Timothy :: talk 02:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP: - As in similar events that have articles, also meet WP:NOTABILITY. Ovedc (talk) 04:48, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep : yet another article about a massacre that some'd like to conceal, I mean, suppress ? are there massacres that deserve their articles and others that don't? I'm in favor of keeping the article and I hope it will be preserved! thank you! Sg7438 (talk) 08:07, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for that summary of all of our motives; unfortunately, some of us just think that this would be better served by a short section at the main article, for the same reason we haven't created an article for every Israeli bomb strike that kills 5 Palestinians. AryKun (talk) 16:51, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
hello, I understand, but I'm sad to see that some massacres deserve their own article, while others deserve a simple summary... trivializing the facts, smoothing out the thinking... Sg7438 (talk) 10:04, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sg7438, stop attributing hidden intentions to people. There is no intention here to trivialize crimes nor of "smooth out the thinking". Super Dromaeosaurus (talk) 10:19, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just giving my opinion and my perception of this proposal to delete the article on this massacre... I hope you're keeping the other articles on the other massacres.. Sg7438 (talk) 10:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

keep even though the casualty count was indeed low, there were a few hostages taken from the village as well and this might evolve and become a longer and more significant article as time goes by and more information about the aftermath of the massacre will be brought to light, in my opinion, this is too early to decide whether or not this article is worth an article of it's own, or should it be merged to the main article about the war.

~~Elie goodman (talk) 11:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)~~ Sock strike Daniel (talk) 23:44, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is a clear split here, relisting for more discussion as opposed to a simple NC close.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite (talk) 11:37, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Timothy. \\ Loksmythe // (talk) 02:42, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Timothy. With regards, Oleg Y. (talk) 02:56, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per notability comments of Homerthegreat, and my previous comments on similar articles: notable, verifiable and neutral articles of this nature from both sides of the combat broaden Wikipedia knowledge of the combat. If any civilians can be shown to verifiably have died then this article would be as notable as the others reporting Israeli or Palestinian casualties. I do think the article can do with some additional referencing and copy editing, so I’ll add it to my to-do. Ayenaee (talk) 18:44, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per above. As proven above, in the article, and elsewhere, all these massacres are inherently notable. This particular article is long and unique enough not to merge. gidonb (talk) 03:17, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.