Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mahsa Amini

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge with an option to split in the near future. There is neither consensus to delete nor consensus to keep at this time. There is a WP:ROUGHCONSENSUS to merge. I'll highlight one comment in particular that I felt articulated the merge position most clearly and succinctly.

When arguing to merge for now, IP editor 98.155.8.5 explained how originally the George Floyd standalone page wasn't deemed notable, either, outside of his death and the nation-wide protests that followed. As they further explained, now of course, there are multiple pages about him, including the aforementioned bio bearing his name. The point, though, is that it didn't happen right away (refer to the original Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/George Floyd). Personally, I'd predict with near-certainty that the same will be true for Mahsa Amini, just not quite yet. El_C 03:14, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mahsa Amini

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The subject was not notable prior to her death. The article Death of Mahsa Amini is more than adequate to report all details of her life and death. WWGB (talk) 02:56, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women and Iran. WWGB (talk) 02:56, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. In the context of her death, what is notable about Mahsa Amini is her ordinaryness. This is notable. She is an "everywoman," and a proxy for all female persons in Tehran, if not in Iran as a whole. Her Kurdish background stands out, but in all other regards she blends in. She died despite the fact that she was not any of the things that might have marked her for violent mistreatment. She was not a demonstrator or an agitator, a public intellectual, a Christian, Jew or Zoroastrian. She was not yet highly educated, though she desired more education. She was shy, it is said. The fact that she was so ordinary, but paid the ultimate penalty for the slightest offense makes her a very important person, and a symbol, as her tombstone attests. She stands as proof that the guidance patrol and morality police have nothing to do with giving guidance or encouraging morality. By this incident they are shown to be instruments of state terror, nothing more. Her treatment, in fact, was grossly immoral, so much so that it can be seen in this case that the blame cannot be confined to a handful of misguided officers. The fault is systemic, and blame must adhere to those in command of the wretched system of oppression that killed her, and that threatens every Iranian woman. The addition of more information about her innocuousness, her harmlessness and her averageness would be welcome in that it would better inform the thinking of everyone searching for the meaning of her death.Thomas B. Higgins Thomasbhiggins (talk 18:30, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. The current protests in Iran have no longer anything with Miss Amini or women's rights. The day before yesterday, university students chanted "neither here nor there; my dick in the supreme leader's office". The language is obviously sexist and I believe an end to "history in the making". 4nn1l2 (talk) 03:19, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please.. We must be neural about the articles. Caravaneternity (talk) 18:08, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Selective Merge to Death of Mahsa Amini, where a biography section already exists. There is well-developed article about the notable WP:EVENT that could be further developed. Beccaynr (talk) 03:40, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think this article is just about Mahsa Amini and her life not about any other thing. Mahsa Amini is well-known for all people not only in iran but in other countries.Caravaneternity (talk) 05:51, 4 October 2022 (UTC) — Caravaneternity (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- No, the article is primarily about her death and the ensuing protests, both of which are the subject of existing articles. WWGB (talk) 06:49, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  @WWGB I don't agree with you, she is notable and all people around the world know her and I think you are trying to ignore this fact. there are thousands of sources about Mahsa Amini you can find by Google. We must be neutral about articles in wikipedia. We must not try to delete articles which do not agree with our political or religious orientation. Caravaneternity (talk) 07:05, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I do not have any relevant "political or religious orientation". I am an Australian atheist. I couldn't care less about the politics of Iran. My sole concern here is with an article that duplicates an existing article, per WP:OVERLAP. WWGB (talk) 10:52, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Really sorry but your contributions say something else.. anyway it's not important .. that's not my point. Caravaneternity (talk) 11:29, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please look at my global contributions [1], I created my account in Wiki on Jan 2022 and done many edits in other Wikipedias like Persian and Kurdish Wiki. Caravaneternity (talk) 12:05, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Seems almost entirely redundant to the article on her death. No clear case for notability as a standalone biography. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:06, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There are enough sources for that. Article Death of Mahsa Amini is different from this article. It is common on Wikipedia to make separate articles to prevent articles from oversizing for significant portions. This article is about mahsa amini's biography.I believe that in accordance with Wikipedia's laws, it is absolutely right that there is a separate article for Mahsa Amini's biography. also She is the main symbol of Iran's 2022 protests and a part of Iran's history. for that just look how International Media, Politicians, Celebrities and The general public of the world speak about her: BBC, The Guardian, DW News, The New York Times and lots of other great medias.H2KL (talk) 08:00, 4 October 2022 (UTC) — H2KL (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Note: The user's contributions show that since doing their first edit on 18 September 2022, H2KL has been solely editing the pages related to Mahsa Amini. --Mhhossein ^talk 07:45, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They all talk about her death. She wasn't famous before, she doesn't get famous until the events of her death. Oaktree b (talk) 12:04, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have not done any thing wrong. please stop accusing users for unreasonable things just in order to achieve your personal goals... H2KL (talk) 12:46, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge She is well known, but it is all a 1E single event. She didn't have standalone notability before that event. Merge to Death of Mahsa Amini where the summary article is. The core of the article is already duplicated with the majority of the details on the main articles, with a better picture, with only transitory details left in this article. The summary article even has better image. There is form for this. scope_creep^Talk 09:01, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge Outside of her death, her life was rather routine. Had she not died, shouldn't be notable. Even this article tells more about her death and reaction to it than to the rest of her life. Duplication that isn't needed. Very much 1E. Oaktree b (talk) 12:03, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Her "life section" in this article is barely a paragraph. More about her death and reaction to it, again which is already explained in another article. She doesn't get two articles that basically tell the same thing, that's not what wikipedia is for. Oaktree b (talk) 13:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I added new content to the biography. This article is in the early stages of creation and needs to be completed, which users will complete over time. DavidR2021 (talk) 15:22, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The article on Mahsa Amini protests was separated from the article on Death of Mahsa Amini so as not to be too big. So, separating the biography like this article is also quite logical, it just needs to be completed because it is in the early stages of creation. It will be completed by users. i added some new information to the biography.DavidR2021 (talk) 15:28, 4 October 2022 (UTC) — DavidR2021 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. *:before any judgment look at my global contributions [2], I have been active since 2021. DavidR2021 (talk) 18:02, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The amount of biographical information currently available does not appear to justify a separate article per WP:WHENSPLIT. If her biography becomes too large for the Death of Mahsa Amini article, then the article may be split into a separate article. This article currently appears to be a WP:REDUNDANTFORK and should be merged into the main article about the notable event of her death - this is still a recent event and it seems better for article development and WP:NPOV to focus on one main article for now. Beccaynr (talk) 15:48, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I added new texts with the related sources. I believe it is better to be kept. her biography will be expanded here very soon it is better to remain separated like Hadis Najafi. DavidR2021 (talk) 15:57, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the pending Hadis Najafi AfD discussion, I suggest renaming the article to Death of Hadis Najafi because of WP:BLP1E policy and the WP:EVENT guideline, and I think similar reasoning applies to why it is currently better to selectively merge biographical content from the Mahsa Amini(Jina) article into the Death of Mahsa Amini article, although there are additional considerations here, because there are already two articles related to Mahsa Amini, in addition to this article, which was created [3] after an attempt to rename the Death of Mahsa Amini article [4] was reverted [5] and the article then protected [6] by Tamzin. Beccaynr (talk) 19:29, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Beccaynr Sorry but Nika Shakarami and Hadis Najafi and lot of other people protested and sacrificed their lives for Mahsa Amini. Now we see in wikipedia they have articles but you want to remove the main character article, Mahsa Amini???!!! and for that you are using Wikipedia laws??? it is not logical ... Caravaneternity (talk) 06:26, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Caravaneternity, this article appears to be an attempt to evade consensus at the Death of Mahsa Amini article, e.g. as discussed in a section about the use of the word "allegedly", and appears to create a POV fork contrary to WP:NPOV policy, as well as issues related to using WP:WIKIVOICE. There also appears to be no discussion on the Death of Mahsa Amini Talk page after the attempt to rename that article was reverted and the consensus process noted on your Talk page. A merge seems best at this time so editors can work together according to policies and guidelines, which will not remove Mahsa Amini from the encyclopedia, but instead help ensure that her life, death, and legacy is presented in an encyclopedic manner and according to consensus. Beccaynr (talk) 16:42, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Beccaynr I think there is a big misunderstanding ..No it's not trying to evade consensus at the Death of Mahsa Amini article. just go and see what happened at Wikipedia Farsi. there are separated articles for all subjects related to Mahsa Amini including biography, death, protests, timeline of protests and several other articles. I don't know why you are resisting to advance articles with the subjects of Mahsa Amini. there is no different between now and future. we can advance articles now why in future?? Caravaneternity (talk) 17:25, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Persian Wikipedia is a terrible and highly biased project. That project is indeed a joke. English Wikipedia should not and does not follow that project. 4nn1l2 (talk) 17:39, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@4nn1l2You are one of the active users and administrators of The Persian Wiki. This way of talking about it is a little strange!!!! Caravaneternity (talk) 17:47, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's exactly how I know that that project is no more than a joke. 4nn1l2 (talk) 17:54, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They have even created a stand-alone article for the MahsaAmini hashtag: fa:مهسا امینی (هشتگ). Should the English Wikipedia follow them? Definitely not. 4nn1l2 (talk) 17:59, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

At Persian Wikipedia, they do not describe the disputes, but engage in them. 4nn1l2 (talk) 18:03, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
creating article for this hashtag is a right work.. for the first time in tweeter a hashtage has been retweeted more than 200 millions times .. so this it is notable .. Caravaneternity (talk) 18:12, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Caravaneternity, I appreciate your clarification, but other language versions of Wikipedia are independent, so what happens at Wikipedia Farsi will not necessarily guide what happens here. Beccaynr (talk) 15:39, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We know they are independent but Wikipedia rules are same for all versions of it. Knowing how they act can be helpful for us because they know more than us about Iran and events related to it. H2KL (talk) 02:45, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Creating an article titled Mahsa Amini(Jina), as this article was before it was moved (as noted below, and now reflected in the title of this AfD), might be considered WP:GAMENAME, because it happened after an attempt to rename the Death of Mahsa Amini article was reverted and the page protected, as described in my comment above. My only concern is whether this article improves the encyclopedia at this time. Based on the sources and the article, it also appears to be a WP:TNT situation, supporting a merge and deletion so the biography can be developed with reliable sources and in accordance with NPOV policy, within the Death of Mahsa Amini article until a WP:SPLIT is warranted. Beccaynr (talk) 01:23, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Beccaynr Thank you for your explanation.. but we are speaking about ongoing events and I believe it is best to complete this article together, Although the article is good but unfortunately many parts of the content is repeatedly removed despite the reliable sources. H2KL (talk) 14:00, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@H2KL: FWIW Wikipedia rules are not at all the same across sites. Notability is determined by local consensus. Innisfree987 (talk) 10:48, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Innisfree987 I know it but what I said is their work can help us for a better consensus. H2KL (talk) 13:55, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge Per WP:N. She is notable for her unfortunate death, not as a person. The vast majority of the information in this article is already mentioned in Death of Mahsa Amini. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:37, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Mahsa amini is the main symbole of iranian new unity. It would be better to keep this article like Hadis Najafi. It will be completed soon. DavidR2021 (talk) 15:59, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone cares about "iranian New unity. Wikipedia isn't your national encyclopedia. 95.70.214.25 (talk) 15:32, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There's nothing in WP:NBIO that asserts that to be notable a person must be notable before they died. A person may not be notable while they are alive, but become notable through their notable death, thus because of the manner in which they die or the circumstances of their death. See WP:1E. If a person dies heroically in battle or is murdered by state actors leading to the person becoming a martyr, then their death and eventually the person themself will likely one day become all the more notable than, say, one of the many victims of a serial killer. If a person becomes notable in the first instance because of their death, then it may take some time for reporters in the mainstream media to conduct research, or carry out interviews with surviving family members, lovers, friends, workmates etc to fill in the missing details of that person's life. If there's a Wikipedia article entitled the Death of Jane Doe, then that article should only be about the death of Jane Doe, with perhaps a very little about what Jane Doe did and what was done to her immediately leading up to her death, and then a lttle more information about the consequences of her death. The article should not contain information about Jane Doe's life prior to her death for the obvious reason that the article is not about her life but about her death. In my view, compared to the current EB online and other online encyclopaedias, many Wikipedia articles are far too long and badly structured precisely because they have grown organically with the help of many contributors. Trying to break the article up later comes with its own problems. Much better if possible to try to impose a logical hierarchy on the article at the beginning with subarticles created from the word go in the manner of a scholarly encyclopaedia put together by experts. To summarise then, every WP article about the notable death of a person thereby makes the person notable, and should be accompanied at the outset by a subarticle about their life, even if initially the subarticle is merely a single sentence stub. 82.15.254.27 (talk) 18:46, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia also know seems like it is supporting Western media and its propaganda. Why can't they tell? Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 14:30, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Cause Eastern media sources are unreliable? Chinese media is horribly biased, as are Russian sources. We can only use what we can trust. Oaktree b (talk) 16:05, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - We already have [[Death of Mahsa Amini] and we don't need an article on her alone when we already have one on her death which is more notable than her. Merge to Death of Mahsa Amini is more relevant ... Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk)
Keep: -Mahsa Amini and Nika Shakarami in Iran are the heroes of the people and People like to know more about them and their life. in my opinion Resources are complete and separating articles to prevent over-enlargement of the article is the best Idea. حامدصالحزاده (talk) 18:57, 5 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: The account was created juts an hour before this vote. --Mhhossein ^talk 06:58, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Mhhossein, (Personal attack removed). I signed up on 19 July and was active in Persian Wikipedia. I also created this article کلیمیان سقز حامدصالحزاده (talk) 07:13, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Let the record show that your Global Contribution report shows two edits prior to this month.[7] WWGB (talk) 09:08, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is his second edit in en Wikipedia 56 mins before this AFD. @حامدصالحزاده: No Personal Attack please. --Mhhossein ^talk 12:14, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@WWGB As you said at the bottom of this page: Wikipedia is free content that anyone can edit. according to Global Contribution, although not very active, this user created his account on 19 July and created an article. so he is right. H2KL (talk) 18:43, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge The article's language is not neutral at all and it's very subjective. That can be fixed, but the main problem is that there's not much to cover about her other than her unfortunate death. She was not notable in life and not many biographical details are available to warrant a separate article. All the info on this page can easily fit into the article on her death. Keivan.f^Talk 04:51, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge for now then split later, once there are more good sources available describing her life story, and details about who she was as a person. Additional info will justify expansion into more articles in the future. This may be similar to George Floyd, where he was previously not considered notable before his death (but now has his own biography page), and there are multiple other related articles as well: Murder of George Floyd, Reactions to the murder of George Floyd, George Floyd protests, Reactions to the George Floyd protests, etc. There is no reason why the same structure can't be applied here with Mahsa Amini, once enough information comes to light to justify additional related articles, etc. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 05:35, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: As many others pointed out here, Mahsa Amini was not notable before her death, so the title does not meet the GNG criteria. There is already a page covering her death. Plus, the content is so POVish. --Mhhossein ^talk 07:01, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
but as other users said there are many notable persons who people know them after death ..just like this George Floyd and they have articles for their biography .. حامدصالحزاده (talk) 07:22, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: According to the profile of this user Mhhossein he is very proud of to be muslim. So he is not neutral at leat about this Mahsa Amini because as you know muslims believes in rules like Hijab to put limitation on women and don't like thhose women who don't observe hijab.H2KL (talk) 03:12, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This commentary is bordering on WP:NPA. Please limit your comments to article content, and do not disparage other editors. WWGB (talk) 03:23, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The comments of the user H2KL are insulting; @admins: please stop him/her from editing in Wikipedia or atleast from such articles and pages. It seems the user has anti-Muslim thoughts and it makes him/her not neutral in such discussions. There are 2 billion Muslims in the world, you can not accuse and oppose all of them. Neutrality in wikipedia is important. Savalanni (talk) 10:38, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:BIO1E. 103.141.159.227 (talk) 08:07, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This IP and Muhafiz-e-Pakistan are both from Pakistan. Why are users from pakistan so interested in Mahsa Amini articles?!! Something is wrong here.H2KL (talk) 08:46, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Every editor of Wikipedia should be cognisant of Wikipedia:Five pillars, in particular, Wikipedia is free content that anyone can edit. WWGB (talk) 09:12, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@H2KL so? Pakistanis are firm believers in Islam and we stand alongside our Iranian brothers. I just casted a vote here. Muhafiz-e-Pakistan (talk) 21:52, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to this clear confession, this IP and Muafiz-e-Pakistan are not neutral on Wikipedia at least about this Mahsa Amini. Please study Malala Yousafzai too. H2KL (talk) 02:58, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another breach of WP:NPA. If such behaviour continues, you will face sanctions. WWGB (talk) 03:23, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The comments of the user H2KL are insulting; @admins: please stop him/her from editing in Wikipedia or atleast from such articles and pages. It seems the user has anti-Muslim thoughts and it makes him/her not neutral in such discussions. There are 2 billion Muslims in the world, you can not accuse and oppose all of them. Neutrality in wikipedia is important. Savalanni (talk) 10:38, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: For the reviewer manager: As you can see, there are a lot of differences between users about this article. unfortunately most of the users operate with personal prejudices and beliefs and are not neutral towards the contents of this article. They are repeatedly changing and removing most of the biographical content. It can be said that there are serious differences, conflicts and unrest like inside Iran on Wikipedia. Considering the sensitivity of the issue and the fact that <the majority votes is not the criterion of action>, I request you to be extremely careful about keeping or merging it with other articles. What is certain is that Mahsa Amini is now known to everyone, even to people who want the article removed and therefore we can say she is notable. Several incidents in a row have led to this recognition: The fact that She was young and female when she died and many young females have lot of problem with Iran's government rules like Hijab. Also Women rights in Iran, the behavior of the Iranian morality police toward people specially women, the history of people's conflicts with the Iranian government, international reactions toward Iran's protests, Iran's internal protests, the reactions of Iranian government supporters, and dozens of other events that have happened. According to this facts and considering that there are several Articles for the persons like her on Wikipedia, it is possible to have Mehsa Amini's biography article in addition to the previous ones. ThanksCaravaneternity (talk) 15:20, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I say Keep, even though I'm generally against profiling people who were not notable in their lifetime. There's a precedent with George Floyd, which exists alongside Murder of George Floyd.--Ideophagous (talk) 22:16, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
George Floyd (prose size: 18 kB, 3026 words) is too long to be merged into Murder of George Floyd (prose size: 35 kB, 5707 words), so it has been split. 4nn1l2 (talk) 22:36, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This article will be much bigger than George Floyd because it is related to a bigger subject: Women right .. although many parts and sources of the content was deliberately removed without editing or correcting the information .. but it will surely be completed soon.. H2KL (talk) 09:44, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"This article will be much bigger than George Floyd". In your dreams ..... WWGB (talk) 10:04, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In principle, according to WP:N, George Floyd was not notable and therefore no matter how much can be written about him, there shouldn't be an article about him separate from the one about his murder, which is the only thing that makes him notable. Notability of a topic and the amount of information available about that topic are two completely different things. Given how prominent Mahsa Amini has become worldwide (there's even a plan by the city of Paris to make her an honorary citizen posthumously and name a public location after her), I think if George Floyd can have his own article, so can she.-- Ideophagous (talk) 20:34, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong. According to WP:BIO1E, "if media coverage of both the event and the individual's role grow larger, separate articles may become justified." The thing is almost nobody in Iran cared about Mahsa Amini or other victims from the very beginning. The people, extremely exhausted by suppression from inside and extremely impoverished by sanctions from outside, are just looking for the smallest pretexts to burst out. One day it's the shortage of water in arid Iran, another day the collapse of a building, and today the suspicious death of a woman. That's why we know very little about Mahsa Amini.

The French government was recently accused of fomenting the unrest in Iran.[8] And they soon talked about making Mahsa Amini their honorary citizen and naming places after her. Not a bad reaction. 4nn1l2 (talk) 16:02, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, or merge in Death of Mahsa Amini. See also this discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hadis Najafi. Savalanni (talk) 18:35, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"she was not notable while she was alive, her death and the reactions to it are a notable event with plentiful coverage in reliable sources". This means the article Death of Mahsa Amini must be kept and here discussed article Mahsa Amini should be better merged and redirected to it. We should not have two articles in Wikipedia both covering same events! Savalanni (talk) 21:53, 7 October 2022 (UTC)— Savalanni (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside of This topic. [reply]

@Singularitywiki Your claim are not true, please look at my global contributions [9], I am registerd in Wiki on Feb. 2022 and done many edits and created new articles in other Wikipedias like AZB Wiki. In future please research enough to avoid false accusations. Savalanni (talk) 11:37, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What claims my friend? Singularitywiki (talk) 16:45, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As per the numerous above comments.---Wikaviani ^{(talk) (contribs)} 18:53, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE: The subject article has already been moved to Mahsa Amini per naming conventions. I just early-closed Talk:Mahsa Amini#Requested move 3 October 2022 per WP:AVALANCHE & WP:NOTBURO. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 21:52, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
merge or delete to Death of Mahsa Amini already well written there and we can't keep two different fair use image if this page stays.. Shadow4dark (talk) 13:29, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge This is a BLP1E (clearly only notable for death and the events that it sparked). A brief section in the event article sufficiently covers her bio, everything else is event related. --Masem (t) 13:54, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Death of Mahsa Amini. Her death and teh subsequent events that triggered are notable and her bio should be part of it, but there is no notability independent of that. -- Whpq (talk) 14:31, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep is my opinion.. because The difference between Mahsa Amini and other victims of Iran's protests is that the protests started with her death and the protests have been associated with her name and are still going on after a few weeks. Her character is exactly like Mohamed Bouazizi, who led the Tunisian revolution and the Arab Spring in Arab countries. So this fact cannot be ignored. Characters like George Floyd and Mohamed Bouazizi had the same role that Mehsa Amini has now in Iran. So, with this explanation, it should be said that an article is needed to know more about her and her life apart from the incident of her death, so that people can get to know her more. Especially when the mayor of Paris Anne Hidalgo introduced her as an honorary citizen of Paris and named one of the streets of this city after her. Th Fact is this so please keep this article and let it be completed on an appropriate time. Dyakozaman (talk) 15:07, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

your argumentation about the case of "Mohamed Bouazizi" has an issue: in Wikipedia there is an article named "Mohamed Bouazizi" but there is no article named "Death of Mohamed Bouazizi"; creating two different articles in Wikipedia about same thing is not logical.

The only exeption known for me is in case of "George Floyd"; from my point of view it was also not logical there to create an article about "George Floyd" besides the article covering his death; this means one mistake is already happend, it must be corrected, we must not repeat the same mistake here based on that mistake! I may guess two reasons for creating the second article in case of "George Floyd": 1. English version of Wikipedia covers events in English speaking countries exceptionally. (This is normal and could be seen in other Wikis, e.g. Farsi Wikipedia covers the events in Iran with exception) 2. existence of too much information and facts about "George Floyd"'s life before his death. His life is well analysed and well documented.

But in case of Mahsa Amini none of these two reasons could be seen. We can not write more than two lines with ensiclopedic content about Mahsa Amini before her death. If you allow two articles about the case of Mahsa Amini, you must also allow two articles in case of Death of Hadis Najafi and in thousands of other cases. Savalanni (talk) 18:43, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @Savalanni I think the wiki users didn't make any mistakes about Mohamed Bouazizi and George Floyd. Also I think It is true that Iran's protests begun with Mahsa Amini death and her name is on the protests. Hadis najafi was one of the protestors who went to street to protest Mahsa Amini's death like Nika Shakarami and others. We must help to introduce them to the people not try to delete their articles. Rezaalavi023 (talk) 13:31, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Rezaalavi023 we have already an article named Death of Mahsa Amini. Why we should have another one? Like in case of Death of Hadis Najafi we need only to have one article not two! Even in case of "Mohamed Bouazizi" we have only one article not two (it means "Death of Mohamed Bouazizi" is redirected to "Mohamed Bouazizi"). As I have written above the case of "George Floyd" was an exeption. Savalanni (talk) 20:02, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

this case is an exception too if you could study the contemporary history of iran, this recent events are so uniqe. better to have biography separated from death story as well as protests relevant to it. Dyakozaman (talk) 20:22, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Death of Mahsa Amini, because she was only notable for her death. Her personal life is not notable or relevant. 你好... ^{Community Centre} 22:54, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to Death of Mahsa Amini, pShe was a normal person whose death triggered a series of events. Her personal life does not matter here. Singularitywiki (talk) 10:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Singularitywiki (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside of this topic. global contributios shows the user is registered newly and is acrtive only in single Wiki with merely 20 edits! Savalanni (talk) 11:55, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is a poor use of the SPA template. WWGB (talk) 12:03, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is nothing to be merged, the article should be better deleted. Savalanni (talk) 11:54, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This editor has already !voted above. WWGB (talk) 12:06, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a popular vote system, this is a consensus based discussion. Singularitywiki (talk) 17:49, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as it implements confusion. — Roj im (talk) 12:00, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per comments and explanations as well as her name worldwide and the ongoing protests in Iran and other countries there is no problem with WP:NBIO. and we need this article. Rezaalavi023 (talk) 13:34, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
keep we have cases like George Floyd which he was not considered notable before his death, but now he has his own stand-alone article' and even more articles about him like: Reactions to the murder of George Floyd, George Floyd protests, Reactions to the George Floyd protests, why the same thing can't be implemented here? and moreover; mahsa amini known worldwide, people want to know more about her biography, especially people in Iran, and we know how women treated in iran, it's not like it's first and last time these things have happened, as i believe how George Floyd is an example against racism and how valued is human live and its rights no matter what, mahsa amini is also an example for women's rights in iran. —— 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 21:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that we can not write more than two lines with ensiclopedic quality about Mahsa Amini before her death. All are related to her death. Savalanni (talk) 22:02, 9 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is already a good article with more than two lines you said. i think as we can speak new things about George Floyd after monthes, new information will be adding to this article too. Dyakozaman (talk) 03:00, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In the article Mahsa Amini you can not find more than two lines with ensiclopedic quality content about the person of Mahsa Amini; over 95% of its content are directly or indirectly related to her death. I would agree to create a new article if we had enough material to create an article. It means better delete the article (because nothing new inside it) and wait if we have enough material in future to start a new article, then we can split the article Death of Mahsa Amini into two. Savalanni (talk) 07:41, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
it's different really from death article but If you could go to the view history of the article here you see lot of its content have been removed several times even when they have reliable sources. but It can be fixed later. Rezaalavi023 (talk) 08:20, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

keep. We can keep it as it has notability. More importantly, keeping the article helps us keeping the related articles such as Death of Mahsa Amini more concise. Pirehelo (talk) 04:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I see a deluge of Kurdish speakers here. They have probably been canvassed. 4nn1l2 (talk) 04:25, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This article is now at the top of search results, which could explain why more people are participating in the discussion. Per WP:INAPPNOTE, Canvassing normally involves the posting of messages, and there appears to be no evidence to support a suggestion of canvassing. Beccaynr (talk) 04:51, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The appearance of new contributors is understandable, but the high and exaggerated ratio of Kurdish speakers to others is not. 4nn1l2 (talk) 05:23, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But we cannot use someone's affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views - to suggest canvassing may be occuring, we would need evidence of inappropriate message posting or other canvassing conduct. Beccaynr (talk) 06:39, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Here is one such evidence. I am sure there are more than that, but looking for more evidence is not worth my time. The user (Rezaalavi023) has been blocked at fawiki as a sock and canvasses here and we should still remain optimistic that he will be an asset! 4nn1l2 (talk) 14:06, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @4nn1l2, it is quite normal some kurdish user are here because Mahsa Amini is an Iranian Kurd and she is most famous Iranian kurd all over the world.. so no need canvassing. and being curious about her is completely normal. Rezaalavi023 (talk) 08:32, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@4nn1l2 look at this link. I just informed him about this article's discussion and did not tell him to vote as my wish. he voted to delete this article. any other edition was just after his vote. Rezaalavi023 (talk) 15:27, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, let's not forget that you tried to canvas me to vote to keep it.[10] — Roj im (talk) 13:43, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
but we see you voted to delete it. and let see this according to it you have been informed only about discussion whatever your vote is ,either keep or delete, and other edits are after you voted. H2KL (talk) 14:58, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's right. I was a bit sarcastic about the later edits :) — Roj im (talk) 16:22, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, though I would support a selective merge to Death of Mahsa Amini. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contribs)} 04:52, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, maintaining a redirect. Both articles have enjoyed extremely high page views and people are likely to search for Mahsa Amini rather than Death of Mahsa Amini.--Ipigott (talk) 08:47, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the subject is totally notable, but better to merge with Death of Mahsa Amini, however, in Persian wiki both are exits and better to keep this article for now until Persian users decide about it. ZEP55 (talk) 10:05, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete/merge – subect is notable only for her death. The biographical content here is not enough to have its own article, should be integrated into Death of Mahsa Amini. Madeline (part of me) 10:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This subject is notable, It's better to keep it like other wikis (persian wiki and so on). Due to the high importance of Mahsa Amini's topic, users there have created many articles under it, such as biography, death, protests, timeline of protests, killed protestors, arrested persons, reactions, etc. you can see all articles in this category in the persian wiki. Maybe We can't have all those articles in english wiki but at least we can keep this article and I think it's better choice. حمیدنوذری (talk) 11:15, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Persian Wikipedia can not be used as "Idol" for EN Wikipedia. English Wikipedia needs enycplopedic content to generate an independent bio article for Mahsa Amini, we must not repeat their mistake here. You do not have the needed material for an article, maximum availabe content is 2 lines, the rest are related to her death! On the other hand the referred articles in Persian wikipedia are against your reasoning: most of them do not carry the name of Mahsa Amini at all, they named even the protests not after Mahsa Amini but named it as: "Nationwide protests of 1401 in Iran". The protests began actually with death of Mahsa Amini but it can not now be named after her. Analogy: Arab spring began with death of Mohamed Bouazizi, but is not named after him. Savalanni (talk) 19:08, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
All wikis are independent but they can help eachother to do best specially about this topic that is about an Iranian person. There are tens of experienced special users and managers who work for years (some of them more than ten years) on persian wiki and know very well what they are doing. they created those articles and full protected them. As far as I know you are just a user with some edits on Wikipedia and you cannot judge their work and say with certainty that they are wrong. On the other hand all those articles they created are related to each other and all of them are a subset of Mahsa Amini's title. حمیدنوذری (talk) 01:15, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Clearly notable. Wjfox2005 (talk) 12:35, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect because it's her arrest, death & reaction to it (including the protests) that are notable. She has no notability. Jim Michael 2 (talk) 14:45, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Clearly notable. --Rosiestep (talk) 15:56, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Totally fails WP:GNG. We already got Mahsa Amini protests, I don't see why more unwarranted WP:CFORKs need to be created. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 02:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.