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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete for now, but if acceptable sources can be found after a reasonable period has passed, the community has no objection to the articles being recreated. Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry (talk) 19:11, 16 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Le-Tuyen Nguyen

[edit]
Le-Tuyen Nguyen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Non-notable musician. Fails Wikipedia:Notability (music). The two reference links provided (one in Vietnamese) are the only references that can be found on the web. The subject gave one lecture at an international guitar festival about his new technique, but nothing more is known about him, as he has received no mainstream media coverage. DAJF (talk) 13:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page which outlines the guitar technique created by this person, but which is equally non-notable and has not received any significant media coverage:
Staccato-harmonic duo-tone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
      • REPLY from Sydney Guitarist:

1)Charles Darwin University is a mainstream institution and a mainstream media coverage. 2)Vietnamese reference and English reference just shows the international coverage of the subject. Therefore, both articles Le-Tuyen Nguyen and Staccato-Harmonic Duo-tone pass Wikipedia:Notability (music).I recommend DAJF to read the translated version that I have given before. Sydney Guitarist (talk) 13:56, 11 November 2008 (UTC) Sydney Guitarist (talk) 14:02, 11 November 2008 (UTC) Sydney Guitarist (talk) 14:06, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete I have tried to work with the author to help explain the criteria for inclusion, and he has truly made every effort to learn this and properly source the article. The fact still remains that neither the artist nor the technique can be verified with any reliable sources. One of the sources is reliable, but mentions the technique in passing only. The other source is interesting (once translated) but soundly fails wp:rs. In the end, it is clear that these might be somewhat "interesting" but they don't come close to passing notability requirements here and there is little hope that they can in the future. This is why I wince when new editors start out by creating articles, as it is pretty hard to do within policy on your first day. I don't want him to get a bad taste for Wikipedia, and hope he sticks around long enough to understand and help us on similar articles. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 17:32, 11 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep. I know nothing about Guitars, but I do know that the Charles Darwin University international guitar festival is extremely important and I would be very surprised indeed if more reliable sources can not be found. Someone who understands what they would be reading, please have a look.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bduke (talk • contribs)
  • No, it was not and I was not talking about Charles Darwin University or the International Guitar Festival either. I was suggesting that sources will probably exist because of the fact that the Guitar Festival at CDU is extremely important. I would not know where to look, but someone who knows about Guitars might. Blind Google searches are not always a good idea. It really helps if you do know something about the field and all I was saying was that I do not.


  • Firm Keep and Expand

The articles have been wrongly proposed for deletion based on the Wikipedia’s policy on Notability(Music): 

“It has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable.[1]”

Technically speaking, Dennis Brown was wrong to propose the articles for deletion. One day after the article created, although they were referenced with the Darwin International Guitar Festival’s site, he claimed: “No actual claim of notability nor independent sources to show such” It was certain that he had his doubts that the Guitar Festival’s official webpage is not reliable. He could not even decide the reliability of an English webpage. All classical guitarists would know how extremely important this international event is. A lecture-recital at an extremely important international event is non-trivial.

Obviously he did not do his homework properly, because on the next day, after my discussion, he then accepted that “it sounds like Darwin International Guitar Festival is notable”. So there was ONE reliable source, not NONE. Technically, he was wrong then. Having the same attitude, DAJF seconded the AFD without seeing the contradiction of ONE and NONE.

However, despite of not being able to decide whether an English webpage is reliable or not, Mr. Brown then went on and gave a high-pitched and authoritative voice to judge the Vietnamese sources! He claimed that the Vietnamese sources as: “even before I translated it, I could tell it fails WP:RS” (see discussion). That is good news, now Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, African, French and the rest of the world’s editors don’t need to learn English to judge English sources.

The Vietnamese sources (one based in Germany, one in Vietnam) were written by a regular arts critic with a review of the lecture with musical excerpt and analysis. I don’t think that Mr. Brown would be able to understand the analysis anyway, even if it is written in English.

A lecture-recital at an international event is non-trivial, a review written by an arts critic is non-trivial. Sources are reliable and independent from the subject itself and in 2 different languages, including English. Please be very careful and respect yourself when you propose an article for deletion. Sydney Guitarist (talk) 11:42, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Dennis Brown didn't bring this article to AFD. DAJF did. Dennis Brown is the guy who spent a great deal of time trying to find sources for the article and helping a new author. In the end, it was for naught as the subject matter can't be verified. And yes, the Vietnamese source appears to fail WP:RS. Not because of the language, but because it doesn't appear to be a vetted source. Personal attacks on me don't strengthen your case. DENNIS BROWN (T) (C) 12:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply Please respect yourself and don't make false accusation about personal attacks! Everything I wrote could be verifiable through the history, discussion and this page itself.

Sydney Guitarist (talk) 12:59, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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