Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Howard Street (Baltimore)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was withdrawn by nominator. I wasn't aware of the tunnel fire before nominating this article for deletion (it wasn't mentioned in the article at the time), so I now feel this street is notable for inclusion. --—Scott5114 ↗ 20:57, 21 September 2007 (UTC) (non-admin close)[reply]

Howard Street (Baltimore)

Non-notable street in Baltimore. Not part of a numbered highway. —Scott5114 ↗ 05:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. A railroad tunnel was dug under it in the 1890s, and it has a light rail line now. It was a major shopping street. It was the first north-south street through downtown to have streetcar tracks removed; [1] is an unreliable source for this ("Later, in 1939, as part of the City's effort to make Howard Street a "free-wheel" corridor..."), and anyone with access to local newspaper archives should be able to find a reliable source. --NE2 05:51, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just because it has some history, that doesn't make it notable. Has anything of historic importance happened on the street? —Scott5114 ↗ 06:19, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This is a major north-south street and arguably the most important street in Baltimore as it's the street that the primary Light Rail (Baltimore) line is on. It was the location of the Howard Street Tunnel fire. The Howard Street Bridge is also notable [2]. The nom's contention of "not part of a numbered highway" is bizarre. Under that logic the Broadway (New York City), Sunset Blvd. and Strand, London articles should be deleted. --Oakshade 06:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not part of a numbered highway is actually the standard litmus test. If a state is numbering this road as a highway, it must have a good reason for doing so (considering that also usually means that the state takes on maintenance for the street). It's also a rule of thumb for making sure that we don't get an article for every little 119th Street in every city in every state. —Scott5114↗ 06:40, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- What Wikipedia guideline is this numbered highway "standard litmus test" stipulated? Sounds like you're making up an arbitrary standard. Anyway, Howard Street isn't just a "little 119th Street". --Oakshade 07:09, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. Roads/Notability—Scott5114↗ 07:28, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    - That does not excluded streets without numbers. Besides, that guideline refers to highways, freeways and expressways and makes no mention of city streets. --Oakshade 07:34, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Normally major shopping streets are bypassed by numbered highways. Streets serve not just as traffic corridors but as part of a cityscape. By the way, all roads in Baltimore, even I-70 and I-83, are maintained by the city, except the few that are maintained by the Maryland Transportation Authority. --NE2 08:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  - - - Some "numbered" routes actually have an importance lower than those without numbers, and therefore, are not as worthy of Wikipedia articles. Sebwite 20:36, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - someone in the know can make this into a better article. Look at all the noteable landmarks 'on or near' the street. Keep for now. Lra drama 09:02, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per NE2. I hate to pull WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, but...the numbered highway guideline is just that...a guideline. It isn't meant to be exclusionary. See Pennsylvania Avenue, Wall Street, Fifth Avenue, Wilshire Boulevard, Downing Street and Natchez Trace Parkway for examples. Smashville 16:10, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This is a particularly poor nomination. Three days to establish notability? I have no doubt that any main street in a major eastern city has a significant history to it. I don't know Baltimore, but I'm sure there are some residents who could fill in the blanks - if given a chance to find the page. The "numbered highway" issue is irrelevant - the nominator misunderstands Wikipedia requirements for road notability. As stated above, city roads like Broadway are notable. The question is, does this particular street have at least the possibility of notability, if left alone for more than three days? First, before nominating it, look for references yourself. Then, leave it for others who know more than you to add what they know. MarkBul 16:22, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - this would appear to be a fairly major thoroughfare in Boston, and is more than likely going to be able to stand up to a request for reliable sources. Tony Fox (arf!) 20:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - As one who has created quite a large number of articles about streets and roads in the Baltimore area, I have had to use my own judgement most of the time to determine notability of a particular street. Generally, I have assumed a street or road may be notable if 1.) It is at least several miles long, and is of major importance to thru traffic, 2.) It has at least several notable landmarks located on or near the street for which a Wikipedia article currently exists, or could exist one day, or 3.) Fits into any other criteria on a case-by-case basis. As for Howard Street, anyone who is not from or has lived a long time in Baltimore probably does not understand its importance. The article is still in its infancy, and there is a lot more to be written by myself and others. Sebwite 20:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.