Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DarkThrone (video game)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Secret ^account 18:30, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DarkThrone (video game)

No notability established. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 10:46, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Alexa link shows the traffic to this site, and the game itself has over 40,000 players on the newest version. One previous version had 200,000 players. Granted, the article needs a large rewrite, but it is certainly notable enough to have its own article. Terlob (talk) 11:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Traffic ranking is not enough to establish notability. Also, I don't see any numbers on their webpage mentioning how large their playerbase is. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 11:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. We here at Dark Throne are working to rewrite this article and figure out what to place into it. At the moment our game administrators are busy with maintaining the game and putting fixes into it. As Terlob said we are getting great traffic. Please give us some more time to discuss this inside the Dark Throne Forums and come up with something.Cloud_007 29 November 2008 (UTC)
- — Cloud_007 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Keep. I quote from Wikipedia's homepage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page):

"Welcome to Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit."

What does this mean? What sort of things are in this encyclopedia?

As defined by Google web definitions (http://www.google.fm/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:Encyclopedia&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title), an encyclopedia is "A book or set of books of informative articles usually arranged in alphabetical order." - Source: www.lib.iup.edu/instruction/glossary.html

Now obviously, Wikipedia is not a book. However, it is an online encyclopedia, which we can assume is therefore a cyberspace version of its written counterpart. Why are encyclopedias written though? Is it because someone bored decided that this would be the perfect way to waste his time? I have my doubts about that.

An encyclopedia is meant to include information that may be helpful/is of interest to its reader. This article in question, DarkThrone the MMORPG (Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) deserves its own wikipedia article because it does precisely that. There are literally thousands of articles on Wikipedia with less notability then DarkThrone does. Why then are they here?

Notability should not be a deterrent for displaying valid and correct information about an item of interest on an encyclopedia.

"Traffic ranking is not enough to establish notability. Also, I don't see any numbers on their webpage mentioning how large their playerbase is. Erzsébet Báthory(talk|contr.) 11:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)"

Why then, does a game like Travian have its own wikipedia article? Their conditions are greatly similar to ours. How have they established notability? Do they have many comments? Do they have outside sources that have commented on their game? How does one distinguish and outside source from a cheating player of the game, considering the limits of the internet? My question is, what then does establish notability? I could easily get a large group of the playerbase to come and post here. Is that enough? I could also get the Administrators of DarkThrone to provide statistics regarding the playerbase. If that is not enough, then what is?

I see no reason why DarkThrone should not have its own wikipedia article. If one bothered to search, they would come up with literally thousands of hits regarding DarkThrone the MMORPG. It's probably more famous on the internet then the Norwegian heavy metal band (which has its own wikipedia article) which carries the same name. Elfsky774 (talk) 13:06, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- Other crap exists and tirelessly ranting about Wikipedia will not get anywhere in this discussion. Unless you can produce significant coverage via reliable sources, not much can be done. Please read what Wikipedia is by looking at our Tutorial, which you can access by clicking "help" on the left-hand navigation bar. MuZemike (talk) 17:58, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- "There are literally thousands of articles on Wikipedia with less notability then DarkThrone does. Why then are they here?" - I would say tens of thousands, with hundreds arriving every day. Please consider nominating some them for deletion. Marasmusine (talk) 12:16, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note. Please note the conflict of interest in the above two comments. Erzsébet Báthory_{(talk|contr.)} 13:24, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment. "... the aim of Wikipedia, which is to produce a neutral, reliably sourced encyclopedia..."

And in an encyclopedia such as wikipedia, why should they decide to omit an article which is relevant towards the theme (which is basically everything and anything)?

So do Wikipedia deny that DarkThrone the MMORPG exists?

By removing the article, Wikipedia sends a sign towards me that they deny the existence of DarkThrone.

I am of the opinion that there is no conflict of interest; I do not plan to edit the article, nor do I care about the information contained within it. It can be negative for all I care, as wikipedia clearly strives for unbiased articles.

I am fighting for DarkThrone's right, as an existing item of interest, to be given rights to have its own article.

Also, I request an answer regarding what DarkThrone can do to gain the notability which you claim we lack.

Thank you for your time. Elfsky774 (talk) 13:47, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- — Elfsky774 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Mere existence does not indicate inclusion. MuZemike (talk) 18:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Please note that you can't make something notable. Attempts to procure the coverage required for WP:GNG just so you can have an encyclopedia entry here would represent a serious conflict of interest. Marasmusine (talk) 12:21, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Being new to this game, and a frequent user of wikipedia, i was surprised to see there was even a debate about whether there should be a page focused on Dark throne. Even my most obscure searches have turned up results that have eased my effort while expanding my knowledge. Without reading the tenants of this site, I would believe those are two things that the creators and tireless contributors would be proud of. Granted the dark throne page wasn't exactly what I would consider helpful to a new recruit. But with some effort from people far better then me, the existence of this page will undoubtly serve the purposes I laid out previously. I apologize that this is my first post to this site, so if I mess up the code, please correct my error. User:frankspapa (talk) 10:48 am , 29 November 2008 (CST) — frankspapa (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Note: This debate has been included in the list of video game related deletions. MrKIA11 (talk) 18:01, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Found in third position of top sites in browser based category of Alexa, but your global rank is 20,000. I don't know if that is a signal of (or lack of) notability in Wikipedia's policies. Zero Kitsune (talk) 18:21, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Notability not demonstrated through significant coverage in multiple reliable secondary sources, IE no good quality independent reviews presented. Alexa rank and user numbers have nothing to do with the notability standard on Wikipedia, we aren't discussing Travian, Travian's article being here is not a cast-iron thumbs-up from the community. Those seeking to keep the article should focus on finding reliable sources (if they exist), because the lack of them is what started this process and will likely end it if they're not found. Someone another 18:47, 29 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete under criteria A7 - web content with no indication of importance. Marasmusine (talk) 12:10, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There is an impressive claim to notability (through traffic and users). However, in an effort to retain quality and neturality wikipedia requires this to be backed up with reliable sources. I trawled through twenty pages deep into google searches and I couldn't find any coverage beyond obscure blogs and forum posts. I will gladly change my stance, and I sure others (including the original nominator) if such reliable sources can be provided.Icemotoboy (talk) 20:47, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Checked google news on "DarkThrone MMO" (as there's a band by that name) and found nothing; normal web search reveals no RS hits. Non-notable though if there's a list of MMO's it probably should be listed there. --MASEM 14:12, 2 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Notability needs RSs, not popularity. No sources exist, hence this fails notability.Yobmod (talk) 11:26, 4 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.