Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chris Gardner (curler)
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Erik9 (talk) 03:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Chris Gardner (curler) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
Procedural nom raised from a WP:ANI thread. Previously speedied, but restored by original author who is an administrator. Unclear whether subject passes WP:ATHLETE. Black Kite 00:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. I think it passes WP:Athlete as the curler in question skips a team involved in the World Curling Tour, the highest level curling tour in the world. -- Earl Andrew - talk 02:22, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- (Earl Andrew is the original author who is an administrator. Dekimasuよ! 04:05, 20 February 2009 (UTC))[reply]
- Keep Plays at a sufficiently high-level league to pass WP:Athlete. Poor form to just restore one's own article though. --Ged UK (talk) 08:19, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - Article provides no indication that he passes WP:Athlete, given that curling is an amateur sport, no sign of international recognition. Parslad (talk) 08:57, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- That's just plain bollocks. They even play Curling at the Winter Olympics. - Mgm|(talk) 10:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I am aware of that (I'm Scottish) but the point is, has he played in the Olympics? No! There is also a World Championship, which again there is no participation. I refer you to WP:Athlete. Watch your language too please! Parslad (talk) 16:51, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- That's just plain bollocks. They even play Curling at the Winter Olympics. - Mgm|(talk) 10:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep While the article actually needs to state it along with other improvements, a world tour is a sufficiently notable competition to be considered the highest possible level of its kind behind the Olympics. -
Mgm|(talk) 10:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep seems to have significant news coverage, enough to meet the GNG. RMHED. 20:29, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- True, but all the hits are for regional Canadian newspapers, reporting provincial level matches. Still doesn't reach WP:Athlete?. Parslad (talk) 21:13, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Not every hockey player has played in the Olympics or the World Championships, yet we have articles on every single NHL player. The World Curling Tour is the curling equivalent. -- Earl Andrew - talk 22:21, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- That's very true, but according to WP:Athlete professional sportspeople are notable per se, whereas in amateur/semi pro, evidence of participation in Olympics/ World Championships is needed. If the subject has taken part in this tour, does that make him a full time professional curler? Perhaps someone with specific knowledge could answer? Parslad (talk) 23:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm pretty sure they are not full-time curlers. What is precedent for, say, college sports players in the US? They also get coverage in regional newspapers, and often national coverage. Dekimasuよ! 04:11, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- There are few full time curlers, but that's besides the point. Curlers on the tour still get paid in prize money, which makes them professional. -- Earl Andrew - talk 04:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:ATHLETE asks for "professional sportspeople," and the article professional notes that "a professional athlete is someone who derives income by participating in competitive sports." I took that to mean "primary source of income," but it's possible it may mean all prize money. I don't think of someone as a professional athlete unless it is their profession. Dekimasuよ! 04:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Clearly the difference between amateur and professional alludes you when it comes to sports. An amateur athlete performs their sport with no income for it, while a professional athlete does. It does not matter whether or not it is their main source of income. For example, only amateur figure skaters can play in the Olympics, while pros cannot. And, this has been defined (historically anyways) as receiving any sort of prize money. -- Earl Andrew - talk 08:35, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Its not quite as simple as that though. There are semi professional sportspeople, which I rather imagine this curler is. Marathons may attract 1000s of competitors, and there is prize money, so is each participant worthy of a wikipedia article? Perhaps if there was evidence that the subject regularly wins money, then he would pass WP:athlete. Parslad (talk) 13:35, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Clearly the difference between amateur and professional alludes you when it comes to sports. An amateur athlete performs their sport with no income for it, while a professional athlete does. It does not matter whether or not it is their main source of income. For example, only amateur figure skaters can play in the Olympics, while pros cannot. And, this has been defined (historically anyways) as receiving any sort of prize money. -- Earl Andrew - talk 08:35, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:ATHLETE asks for "professional sportspeople," and the article professional notes that "a professional athlete is someone who derives income by participating in competitive sports." I took that to mean "primary source of income," but it's possible it may mean all prize money. I don't think of someone as a professional athlete unless it is their profession. Dekimasuよ! 04:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- There are few full time curlers, but that's besides the point. Curlers on the tour still get paid in prize money, which makes them professional. -- Earl Andrew - talk 04:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm pretty sure they are not full-time curlers. What is precedent for, say, college sports players in the US? They also get coverage in regional newspapers, and often national coverage. Dekimasuよ! 04:11, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- That's very true, but according to WP:Athlete professional sportspeople are notable per se, whereas in amateur/semi pro, evidence of participation in Olympics/ World Championships is needed. If the subject has taken part in this tour, does that make him a full time professional curler? Perhaps someone with specific knowledge could answer? Parslad (talk) 23:09, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Not every hockey player has played in the Olympics or the World Championships, yet we have articles on every single NHL player. The World Curling Tour is the curling equivalent. -- Earl Andrew - talk 22:21, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- keep. - we like marginally notable athletes. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 22:30, 20 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ontario-related deletion discussions. -- DoubleBlue (talk) 16:10, 21 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak keep. It appears likely to me that there are sufficient reliable sources for a verifiable, neutral point-of-view article free from original research, which are the content criteria. WP:ATHLETE is a guideline to assist us in determining if a person is likely to have sufficient sources to do so; it does not determine if it does. DoubleBlue (talk) 23:23, 23 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per Earl Andrew, assuming that has been verified.Tavix (talk) 00:33, 24 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.