Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alfred Momotenko Levitsky (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Malinaccier (talk) 20:37, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alfred Momotenko Levitsky

AfDs for this article:

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

BLP does not meet WP:COMPOSER, WP:MUSICBIO, WP:NMUSICOTHER or even general. The "awards" are not prestigious but merely submissions to ensembles (Prix Annelie de Man Ensemble Black Pencil Prize, 150-Years-of-Music-Technology Composition Competition Prize) that "award for performance" in keeping with sites such as composersite.com. Heavy COI that results in sources that are either primary or closely related to subject that mention or preview works. Notability by association in list of compositions (a companion piece for Les cinq doigts by Igor Stravinsky, a companion piece for All-Night Vigil by Sergej Rachmaninov,, Companion piece for Das Lied von der Erde by Gustav Mahler) without real content within a Career section. Stating premieres (The world première was at Koningshoeven Abbey on Saint Cecilia's feast day, 22 November 2014., world premiere was present during the opening of the 25th edition of the festival at De Doelen in Rotterdam, conducted by Valery Gergiev), musical organizations, conductors, etc is no different than any other contemporary composer having their works performed around the world today yet no article representation here at WP. Mere filler and WP:FLUFF content.

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Netherlands. Shellwood (talk) 15:28, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Ironically, given that I was the editor who previously nominated this article for AfD discussion, I believe it should be retained. Subject meets criteria 5 (the Gramophone review of the recent Ondine release calls it the subject's "major-label debut")[1] and 11 of WP:MUSICBIO, as well as criterion 3 of WP:ANYBIO. However, I do agree that a lot of the self-promotional language needs to be cut. But that does not warrant deletion. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 15:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Granted your observations may be correct. However, you mentioned #11 (Has been placed in rotation nationally by a major radio or music television network), can you specifically back those claims with RS found within the article? I am finding dead links and non-links. As for Criterion 3: as well, what "biographical dictionary" are you talking about found within the article? Thank you. Maineartists (talk) 17:11, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here are the sources in question:

1. worldmusicdays2019.ee. 2019. No longer exists. The site itself is self-promotional by sign-in members.
2. muziekencyclopedie.nl is not an "Encyclopedia". The actual site is: muziekweb.nl/. It is a Dutch lending library. It lists BLP's album Creator of Angels.
4 a,b,c,d,e,f is not a continuous "rotation nationally by a major station". It is merely listing the same broadcast of the BLP's works similar to other musicians featured on the same radio program "Recent broadcasts from Concertzender Amsterdam Organ Park".
5 is the same as 4. Other musicians are also listed multiple times as featured "in residence".
7, 8 & 9 are same.
11, 12, 13: Orgelpark again.
18. Primary to BLP website
19. Same as 4
20. Deadlink
24 & 25. Same as 1. No longer exists. The site itself is self-promotional by sign-in members.
26, 27, 28 no longer exist or bring to a different page.
30-34 are shared with other composers. Not notable specifically to BLP.

Maineartists (talk) 17:43, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The links from Concertzender, which is (or was?) the Dutch public radio channel, establish criterion 11 of WP:MUSICBIO. Criterion 5 is met without question; that alone is sufficient rationale for me to vote "keep". I'm not sure what happened to subject's entry at Muziekencyclopedie. Presumably it was moved elsewhere. At any rate, the entry is archived here, which qualifies it as valid per WP:LR, WP:MDLI, WP:KDL, and WP:DEADREF. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 19:43, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You keep saying this: "The links from Concertzender, which is (or was?) the Dutch public radio channel, establish criterion 11 of WP:MUSICBIO" but provide no additional sourcing. Just how many "links" are you seeing on this page? Criterion for 11 is for "bands, singers, rappers, orchestras, DJs, musical theatre groups, instrumentalists, etc.". Meaning, charting, Billboard, i.e. Taylor Swift song playing No. 1 in the country continuously (in rotation) across national radio stations for weeks at a time. The BLP's radio play was a singular event at the Amsterdam Organ Park. The dates next to the pieces listed on the one-event program are not when they were aired but when they were written. The program was radio-played only once; not in rotation. Please provide additional sources that show a national radio station (or stations) that has played the BLP's music "in rotation. He would have to have a work that is played by classical radio station(s) in rotation; i.e. Taylor Swift. However, I do see the correct link to the Music Encyclopedia (now "Sound and Vision") entry that is basically a three-line bio taken from his own website. If this is what qualifies for entry at WP, then at the very least, this article requires a heavy, heavy scrub and re-construction. Obviously, it will pass this 2nd AfD so I will start reassembly off-site. Thanks Maineartists (talk) 02:40, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The article is a qualified disaster, however the Grammophone[2] and Volkskrant[3] reviews are sufficient to keep. There were articles also in the regional press. Urgent cleanup! gidonb (talk) 14:59, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

COMMENT I am at tendency toward agree at the moment for keep; and I will most certainly be going in and attending with strong intent for an intense cleanup, but it can wait until this closes. Gathering consensus for a complete overhaul will allow a Talk Page reference as to they "why" without the need for debate. I expect there may be push-back due to the COI issue at the article. As well, there are RS being brought here that are not at the article itself that will come in handy; as most sources are now defunct, dead or primary. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 15:20, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

COI can be cleaned up. This is an example of a composer article that I clean up every now and then. So it doesn't contain the information that the person would include himself. It's still an important resource as this composer is constantly played by wind orchestras ("bands") and other ensembles around the US and hence is frequently read. Worthy both of the composer and of WP. Actually I created this one after the bio had been unjustifiably banned. It has the tendency to turn into PEACOCK once in a while. gidonb (talk) 15:36, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"this composer is constantly played by wind orchestras ("bands") and other ensembles around the US and hence is frequently read." Where? Please provide sources to back this claim. So far, I can only find performance sources within his native land. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 18:38, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Click on the linked "this" to see to which composer I refer. gidonb (talk) 19:16, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

??? I'm refering to Alfred Momotenko Levitsky. Not some other composer or their article. So far, we are just talking in circles here and also on the article page as another editor is merely citing sources about the same two things: Orgel Park concert and Creator of Angels CD. But nothing new has been found. There is still no evidence of "rotation" on radio. Aside from the one mere mention in a music publication, all that's being done at present is overkill of sources about the same two achievements. Maineartists (talk) 19:32, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What other editors write does not apply to my opinion. I showed you what a cleaned up composer article may look like. Otherwise I have nothing to add. Neither do you, it seems. Rest assured that I had read the intro before forming my opinion! gidonb (talk) 20:17, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. All problems with the article have been resolved by User:CurryTime7-24. I only tweaked the headers. The topic clearly passes the GNG and NMUSIC. The nomination can be withdrawn or closed as keep. As the nominator put it: I am at tendency toward agree at the moment for keep. gidonb (talk) 04:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.