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Hello, I notice that you recently created a new page, International Space Station/NoJava. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as yourself. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - International Space Station. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at International Space Station - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.
If you think that the article you created should remain separate, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Ankit MaityTalk • contribs09:43, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Penyulap, can you explain what these two articles are meant to do? The NoJava version seems to be a content fork of International Space Station. Are you trying to create some version of the article for use on mobile devices? This just doesn't seem like a good way to go about things. Best, Sparthorse (talk) 09:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Sparthorse, it's mostly for discussion actually, although it looks like a good idea to me, I think whilst the speedy deletion template is on there I'll re-edit the article so members of the public can't see the link. Penyulap talk09:54, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks, I see what you are trying to achieve. But having a separate version of the article with identical content just isn't a good idea. The two versions will quickly diverge (editors now have to make identical changes to two different articles), and you've removed the page history from the NoJava version of the article which violates Wikipedia's license. If you want to propose a different way to handle scrolling, you should do that at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) rather than forking articles like this. Best, Sparthorse (talk) 09:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're no doubt correct, I worried first it would put the new article into many categories it's not meant to be in, anyhow it's mostly for discussion really. It does somewhat look the part, the edit links goto the correct place in the real article I think. Penyulap talk10:03, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You could create example articles easily enough that demonstrated the effect. Do that in your userspace (e.g. at User:Penyulap/example and User:Penyulap/example/NoJava) and then start the discussion at the Village Pump? You probably shouldn't use the ISS article content as that will have licensing issues, but creating a simple dummy article should be easy enough. Sparthorse (talk) 10:10, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there are no non-free images, if that's a concern (I maintain the article, it's all I edit really) are there other concerns on licensing ? Penyulap talk10:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is, all Wikipedia contributions have to be attributed, per the CC-BY-SA license. If you copy the contents of the International Space Station then you haven't attributed the original authors. That includes you, but it also includes other editors. The way Wikipedia does this is by maintaining the article history which lists every author who has contributed. If you just copy and paste the article elsewhere, this history is lost and the license is violated. I would have thought you could create a very short article that demonstrates your scrolling fix. It doesn't have to be the ISS article content. Sparthorse (talk) 10:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well looks like back to the drawing board then, that is, into the too hard for me basket, as I'm not familiar (and don't want to be) with the languages and programming of wiki, as far as copying the history or getting wiki to detect the browsers java capability. But I may as well suggest it somewhere or other. Maybe it's of use to someone. Who knows. Penyulap talk10:24, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A tag has been placed on International Space Station/NoJava, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:
under CSD A10. The duplicated article is International Space Sation. Furthermore, the user who created this article claimed that he wants to mirror the duplicated article, so he has done this.
Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Ankit MaityTalk • contribs15:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Per Smartse I am just asking that do you still need the page as the article is deleted, I listed it for CSD G8 but he didn't delete the page because of your consent. If you want to delete the page then list it for CSD G7.--Ankit MaityTalk • contribs17:13, 3 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. When you recently edited Harry Houdini, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page George Taylor (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
You asked on my talk page to reply here: the blacklist is described at WP:BLACKLIST. In the case in question, the list applicable is at meta:Spam blacklist. If you attempt to add the link (for example, here), you will find that the "save" will not work, and a message is displayed. That's not relevant to what we discussed at Talk:Harry Houdini. Johnuniq (talk) 22:03, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I won't continue replying here, but in brief: a copyvio is when stuff is copied from an external source into an article; often material on the Internet is on multiple websites which have copied each other; evidence suggesting a copyvio here is when an edit inserts text that is already on some other external site (which might not have been the one used by the editor); all copyvios have to be reverted. My comment on the article talk page about the blacklist was simply an explanation as to why the URL which I showed was not given as a clickable link: the URL I mentioned is on the blacklist (but that has nothing to do with copyvios). Johnuniq (talk) 08:40, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well my take on this seems correct then, I had a proper source for the information, summarized it properly, didn't even come close to the 10% of the magazine article in front of me which is the general thinking on copyright, and a backup URL I gave was no problem. I think you had better read up and find out how these things work first in future, because a 'blacklist' site manager can obviously copy anything he/she wants onto their site as they please, including otherwise accurate info from other sites. Just because you find it there doesn't make the original information unusable or invalid. Seriously, this is such a nobrainer I'm not even quoting policy, there is no need, it's commonsense. Clearly if it were not so, a blacklist site could be established, and mirror wikipedia, thereby causing all of wiki to be in violation. Penyulap talk09:04, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Mention of these other modular stations, one of which does not exist, does not belong in the lead paragraph of the ISS article. Indeed, they should only be mentioned in passing somewhere near the end of the lead section. It would be best to work to improve the way they are presented in the space station article. That's where readers go to get information about stations other than ISS! (sdsds - talk) 07:56, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well the CSS has orbital testbed hardware, so it's hardly 'just talk' it's in progress. OPSEK simply IS in orbit right now, one of it's docking mods, and MIR was in orbit. Generally speaking proposals with no hardware, especially no hardware in orbit, don't get much of a mention in the article, however there are exceptions for well developed things, other examples are the vasmir engine. Can you tell me why you feel it detracts from the article, because I am happy to listen to alternate thinking, you wouldn't even need to find someone else as a third if you convince me, because at the moment, the lede has context, and needs any reason why it shouldn't have it. Penyulap talk08:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Penyulap, even though you are "semi-retired" I see you've been busy on Talk:Stop Online Piracy Act. It seems that you've been voluntarily injecting yourself into a very heating subject, and I felt that I should commend you on your neutrality, article improvements, and general responses. SOPA got nearly two million views on Wednesday, and there's been so much discussion on the Talk page that its like 200 kilobytes despite the heavy application of MiszaBot. I see so many random IPs posting this like "this article is so ridiculously biased, Wikipedia's being stupid about the whole thing" and I appreciate you trying to take care of things in a very constructive way. That's all. Hope you don't get too emotionally affected by all the flak. Keep up the good work! Jessemv (talk) 23:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
thank you for your kind words, they mean a great deal to me, my biggest stress is being shot to death at ANI, you just never know when someone will pull out diffs and edits like playing with a scrabble set and string up a 'you suck' sentence, and the demagogues at ANI will burn you without a seconds thought. If you do have a little bit of time at all I have some proposal at the Mos talkpage where all I get is the opposite, slow glacial silence, but stay away from the ISS talkpage, the conversation about eng:var has dragged on for many years, and I haven't even been here for one. Mind you, I am not looking for agreement at all, I don't want any favors, but the silence can be as bad as the ruckus of SOPA (and now megaupload, omg), and a comment by anyone even by snail mail or 300 baud acoustic modem annually would be nice. Penyulap talk00:04, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and so far poor little Miszabot has stayed away from the page, I think I need to tinker with the code, maybe, what I really need to do is pop it into my sandbox for cut'n'paste, as I set it up on Chinese space station, CCM and LCM, and a bunch of other places, and then forget each time. Penyulap talk00:12, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Also, after review of this Talk page, I also feel that you do an exception job about dealing with the opinions and whatnot of other editors who feel you have wronged them in some way. As a non-admin, I'm not too familiar with ANI, but I really do wish you the best of luck there. I truly hope no one makes wild accusations. Can non-admins comment/help? Anyway, I had a quick look at the MOS talk page. It's been my experience that feedback is inversely proportional to the length of the proposal, with the exception of government where too often people support something without reading the entire document. :D But I'll study your idea and see if I can voice my thoughts about it. MOS has been very helpful in guiding me in my improvements to Folding@home. Best, Jessemv (talk) 00:19, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I'm not sure what you mean there, but doesn't it say "Threads older than 5 days may be archived by MiszaBot I."? -(Jessemv)
Why thank you too. Yes, sometimes a twitter-sized proposal is all that will ever get passed, and something that absolutely requires something about 3 times as much real estate goes overlooked. It is far too verbose, and I'll look at ways to make a summary of the proposal. Penyulap talk00:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry about MiszaBot, I can handle the archiving, I was mostly grumbling about my poor memory, that's all. As for WP:ANI anyone can have a say as they please. That's pretty much the problem, it's mob mentality and tyranny of the masses, it's just not possible to fully embody Wikipedia's charter in that way. Penyulap talk00:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm hoping that I won't regret this decision later, but if you get into some sort of craziness at ANI feel free to drop me a line and if I have some time I'll look things over a bit and put out my thoughts. Having never participated at ANI but read through it on multiple occasions, I'm not sure how much of an impact my opinions will be, so it's your call. Jessemv (talk) 00:56, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, I appreciate your solidarity, however, in the end I do truly believe the poor structuring of Wikipedia simply leaves it up to chance. It's pure chance as to whether I stay or am thrown out, on the flip side, I'd very much like to get a 'real life' back and find a permanent cure to the Wiki-fever. It would be just the medicine. (I edit on more than 20 language Wikipedias, mostly English though, but when banned, it would be from the lot, even though I have never had, and never will have any trouble on any other language Wikipedia, but enough about my demise as an editor, and Wikipedia's inevitable marginalization too.) Just have some fun ! Penyulap talk01:09, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Come now, they can't just be flipping coins and then making their decisions from that! Perhaps keeping your responses concise, particularly in heated environments, will increase your chances of ANI survival simply because those who read the dispute over can quickly understand your points. Wading through long, drawn-out, roundabout replies is always a bit irritating, at least to me. Jessemv (talk) 01:24, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
People can and very often do, weigh in with opinions and actions without examining the issues at hand at all. But it's as bad as any mob ruled courtroom. demagogue is something to read and keep in mind. I should make an example template to show what I mean, to help illustrate and discuss the behavior. Penyulap talk01:38, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I added a reference there because I didn't have time to thoroughly study the article and work it in elsewhere. If the line I changed reflects content elsewhere, then it would be a nightmare to go hashing it up and fighting off people who disagree with my changes. I made a near indisputable change (a sentence of which the intrinsic grammar was violated) to fix one sure thing that revealed bias that couldn't be questioned. My one reference is a suggestion that that type of error that exists in the rest of the article be addressed. Feel free to work it in elsewhere and remove the link, however, if no one's inserted a similar reference (standing FBI policy on copyright infringement), I strongly suggest it remain there as an example of work that needs to be done. It's a much better tentative than nothing at all. My change, IMO, addresses a major point that opponents of the bill fail to address. Squish7 (talk) 01:29, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's all good, no problems, I find the very fast way to add stuff is exactly what you did with a little twist, just use the Table of contents to figure where the info you want might go, (even add a new section if you please) and shove it in there. It's going to stay there a lot longer because in the lead people will just use it as a miniature article and cut out the whole lot, at least further down a few editors will read what you add, and then protect the summary in the lead. I can't say as it takes much longer time-wise to do it that way, but it certainly lasts longer. On the ISS article, I found I could work for months chopping changing rewriting the body of the article as I pleased, it was only the lead that people tried so vehemently to exert ownership over. Once it's in the body though, you have some leverage to keeping it in the lead and slowing down the twitter-editors. Penyulap talk01:38, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not completely sure what you're getting at. You mean if I have a dispute with the article's neutrality, I have to research and support it in the body in order to have the truth reflected in the lede? I might agree if I wasn't referencing a fact known by just about every person on Earth who's ever watched a recorded show or film. How can the lede contradict 100%-known facts? Squish7 (talk) 03:39, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You reverted my edit twice demoting the "imposition" of a 5-year prison sentence. The sentence already exists as is stated in every single "FBI Warning" you've ever seen at the start of a recorded copyrighted film or television broadcast. If your lede contradicts a beyond-widely known fact, and does in fact represent the average tone of the article, then that sentence proves the whole article to violate NPOV and COI. Squish7 (talk) 03:56, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, now we are on the same page, sorry, I drifted off. Yes it is a crime, yes it says it on VCR tapes and DVD's, yes yes yes. Now the thing is the new bill doesn't effect that at all, that part stays the same. what it does effect as far as I can tell on a reading of the pages linked to about that part is that the new law makes other things a crime as well. It 'expands' the coverage of the law from simply DVD's and VCR tapes to streaming content over the web. So there is already the crime that you, I, and everyone knows of, and there is the proposed new law to expand that law to cover new things. Apparently some people worry a youtube style video of their kids singing a song would land them in jail. And I tell you having heard the fighting over royalties i think it was for jingle bells or happy birthday or something, there are people out there who would indeed sue. There are some real horror stories. Penyulap talk04:04, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, might I suggest you use "affect" (verb) rather than "effect" (noun) when using it as you have. It's a subtle difference, but important for an editor.
My point is it's clarifying, remolding, reinforcing, reformulating, and/or reestablishing. All these words would do. It's not just illegal to copy video tapes, it's just plain strictly illegal to broadcast copyrighted material. It's just plain copyright law. Some of the FBI warnings even specify that strictly. It's just plain 100% illegal. Suggesting that it's legal by stating that the bill would make it illegal is just plain misinformation. I really don't think I should have to go research and campaign to get something so blatantly nonfactual off of a place that's supposed to uphold objectivity, neutrality, and fact. 146.115.118.66 (talk) 09:34, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're quite right about my grammar, I gave up my intention to learn any more English then I already know long ago, in preference for learning and improving my alternative language skills, which I find more useful. They open up new worlds and broaden horizons, plus, it's easy to learn ! anyhow, the lawyer types in the references were using the word expand, and I'm quite sure they are picky with their words, much more than we are, and have different ideas about each word they use, so I figured on going with their jargon on that one, to preserve the idea they were getting across. Penyulap talk09:47, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Here, standard warning, my emphasis in bold:
Federal law provides severe civil and criminal penalties for the unauthorized reproduction, distribution, or exhibition of copyrighted motion pictures, video tapes, or video discs. Criminal copyright infringement is investigated by the FBI and may constitute a felony with a maximum penalty of up to five years in prison and/or a $250,000 fine.
I'm not talking about something that 90% of people agree is a fact. I'm talking about 99.99%. You just can't blatantly contradict a known fact. It violates the entire spirit of Wikipedia. Your presenting misinformation by implying the bill creates this law. It already exists. 146.115.118.66 (talk) 09:42, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Your right about that law, and the thing is all they decide to do was add the word streaming to it, and then presto, they justified getting paid about $1,000,000 a year and probably flew all over the country and wined and dined at your expense to talk about that one little word. Politicians !!! Plus, to add insult to injury they're not even going to add the word streaming to the law, that's not good value for your tax dollars, but what to do about it ? tell them to put it in ? they got you both ways. Penyulap talk14:06, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ARGH! I will try my best, I am currently trying to get the images that the politician got in big ass trouble for using on his campaign website back onto wikipedia. I popped them up thinking attribution was sufficient, but they had the no commercial use thing, I contacted the artist and he's stoked for them to be on wikipedia he feels so strongly over the issue. Because they have been deleted (I requested their temporary deletion) I can't re-upload them under other names or anything, and I'm sure as ** not going to butcher the artists work with lower resolutions. So I'm trying everything to get attention and have them restored at the moment, plus trying to calm down a newbie who has gone like 15RR with me on SOPA (it's ok, it's not heated, and I'm still trying to get him to talk the right way), but I'll get to it (if I don't drop dead first). Penyulap talk19:28, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You can upload the photo again with {{OTRS pending}} in the code, and release it under GNU or CC, and fill out his copyright info for him. Then just have him send a form letter to send to wikimedia, want the form letter? It's easy to upload a higher resolution later, don't need to send the info twice. Be aware that if the politicians change their story, they might be able to twist it such that they claim he released it into the Creative Commons a long time ago. I guess even then they didn't give his name credit, so it's misuseSloggerbum (talk) 19:35, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Hmm, looking at the article at the moment (trying to think of wikispeak for 'this is just another way, yet again, for politicians to waste everyone's money', hmmm, I'll think of something halfway) Penyulap talk19:39, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Am I right in presuming that your comments here mean that you are unwilling to remove the message you posted? If so, I'm hoping that you reconsider - while no one would be foolish enough to think that the message was by Lamar Smith, it seems inappropriate to post it on the talk page of the SOPA article, especially given current concerns. It was funny, but I'm concerned that the humour wasn't appropriate for the situation. - Bilby (talk) 06:57, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Remove what ? do you mean the helpful message box ? if you are stating that 'no one would be foolish enough to think that the message was by Lamar Smith' who else has their name signed in that message box ? would you like me to sign my help message with Penyulap talk rather than just Penyulap ? would that help ? I'll be happy to if you give me any kind of reason why it's needed, I'm all ears and happy to help. What 'current concerns' are you talking about, I don't understand what you mean there, can you explain ? Penyulap talk07:05, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You've posted a message box, making fun of Lamar Smith, using his photo, on the talk page of an article about his proposed bill, making it look like the message was by him. This seems like a problem, especially given the concerns about neutrality with both the article and Wikipedia's stance towards SOPA. i have no concerns with the help that you offered (other than the "vote early, vote often" bit, I guess), but I feel that it should be done in your voice, as you, rather than using Lamar Smith's photo and voice. - Bilby (talk) 07:11, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well that's a little more confusing, because I would consider the Vote for ME rather than the "vote early, vote often" to be a problem for anyone "foolish enough to think that the message was by Lamar Smith" wouldn't you ? Penyulap talk07:18, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Be that as it may, the issue is still there - the humour is, I think, inappropriate at best and a possible BLP problem at worst. At any rate, it isn't needed - you can make the same message in your own voice, without the photo, and avoid any concerns. - Bilby (talk) 07:25, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough on the photo, I can use something that is obviously not anything Lamar would use, obvious to anyone it's not, not even you. The message doesn't contain much in the way of humor however, because it's all just how to edit the article that size, the message of vote should I guess be different, as you seem concerned that someone might think it's the real Lamar, I think it's the 'Vote for ME' part not the "vote early, vote often" part though, but lets work together here and remove BOTH, I think that is best. Plus I think referring to the article as 'MY article' is no good either. So I'll change that too. Penyulap talk07:40, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is that any better ? I can change it if you don't like it. My artistry is somewhat shamefully poor. I don't mind to change the photo as I feel shame at the poor quality of my work. Penyulap talk07:49, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, that moves the humour from subtle to blatant, but doesn't make it more appropriate. :( Still funny, though. - Bilby (talk) 07:53, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well I don't want to use a picture of a Toad for example, that wouldn't do. Any suggestions, because I do want it to be useful to the many new IP users on that page you see. Penyulap talk07:56, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That might be better, I expect there is no humor ? Wikipe-tan is the wikipedia mascot too, so that's a good character to use, rather than a Toad, or El Lamaro which you don't and do like. And wikipe can't be confused easily with Lamar either. Penyulap talk08:14, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Penyulap, seriously? Please read User:Kirill Lokshin/Professionalism, an essay by a very wise Wikipedian. Your enthusiasm and energy are good things.. but these could easily be outweighed by inappropriate behaviour which is not consistent with the aims of the project. Please consider your actions more carefully. Mlm42 (talk) 09:44, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
* - I have removed your demeaning self created picture of a living subject of one of our articles - please don't replace it. Thanks - Youreallycan10:43, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You seem very confused. Wikipe-tan does not live. she never lived, she is a personification. She is not the subject of one of our articles. And what is demeaning about the image ? I'll only too happy to remove it if you clear up this confusion you have, and come up with any actual reason which makes sense. Penyulap talk16:58, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh wait, your talking about El Lamaro ? I wouldn't call it any such thing as demeaning, it was heroic if anything and that was very clear. but meh. I was never all that pleased with my work on that one anyhow. Penyulap talk17:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Your recent editing history at Stop Online Privacy Act shows that you are in danger of breaking the three-revert rule, or that you may have already broken it. An editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Breaking the three-revert rule often leads to a block.
If you wish to avoid being blocked, instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to discuss the changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. You may still be blocked for edit warring even if you do not exceed the technical limit of the three-revert rule if your behavior indicates that you intend to continue to revert repeatedly. Bbb23 (talk) 18:37, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You came off an admin block for disruptive editing less than 3 months ago, Penyulap. Keep that sort of history on your Talk page instead of pushing it off into an archive and you are less likely to get tagged since people will know that you are (or should be) familiar with the rules (having had run-ins with them before).--Brian Dell (talk) 23:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh my God, you've found my archives, whatever am I going to do ? where can I hide ? where can I run. No, but seriously, what part of standard archiving is me trying to hide anything, that's hilarious. Penyulap talk23:19, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wow Brian, your talkpage is massive !! would you like me to set up automatic archiving for you ? I don't mind, I'm rather not too bad at it. I set it up for this page, for the SOPA page, for lots of pages really, I'm pretty ok at it. Would you like my help with that ? Penyulap talk23:25, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not a fan of archiving. re you're a "regular", yes, you are, over at ANI (at least for someone who arrived on Wikipedia less than a year ago) because of other editor complaints about you. You said you would retire in the face of this real or imagined persecution. The question is, what is different about your coming back out of retirement such that you won't end up on ANI again? Do you have a new philosophy, attitude, or style of editing that you can tell us about?--Brian Dell (talk) 23:34, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes indeed I am a bit of a regular over at ANI, that is so true. I wish I could do more to try and rescue the newbies over there who get burnt and wp:bitten, but I'm too busy writing articles. Did you know I once dragged myself to ANI ? I'm serious, I could see that there was inevitable trouble ahead, due to my talents in the foresight department, of course they for some reason at first thought it was some kind of joke, until other slower people eventually saw, what I saw from the beginning foresaw and assisted me at ANI to find a solution. That was all about the Tooth Fairy article. You see, it sucked unbelievably, I mean it reeks, editors said it was a 'disgrace to Wikipedia' and that was when they used polite language. And I'll tell you right now they used some really foul language to describe that article. Well, because of other editors, and I won't go into details for fear of retribution, I was unable to assist in improving that article, and it still is a big pile of horse crap, although I don't think that is the technical term, it's not a Good Article, (GA) and I swear on all that is true it will never be a Featured article (FA) although it is possible. It's just about the most vandalized it could possibly be, and I could, and DID, pinpoint precisely the reasons, down to the very words, that was causing the problems. Anyhow, a good solution was found, I decided it should remain forever a monument to the failure of the Wikipedia co-operative process, and so it stands today as a testament to the Epic Fail that is wiki. It is a magnet for vandalism and puts new, young readers off Wikipedia for good. Now as for your second point, about the changes that I have made to my own editing style, I outlined them in full in a final response at ANI. You might have missed that over there in the archives, but it's there. I pointed out that I would use my talent for foresight to extrapolate most editors responses to my suggestions, for example, I knew perfectly well that you would reject my perfectly sincere offer to assist you with your archiving, and if ever you do change your mind, and if you stay on wiki it's inevitable as your browser eventually won't cope, I will still be sincerely happy to assist you, because goshdarnit I'm a helpful guy, even to people who don't precisely like me. (I'm probably growing on you a bit I suspect, you see ? you don't want to admit it, but I can use foresight to see these things, and that you'll try to deny it to me and yourself too for a while) anyhow, it seems to be working well at the moment. However the Wikipedia project as a whole is doomed to be marginalized further, because of it's structural shortcomings, It's simply not possible to fully embody the project charter in the current form of govenment which better embodies mob mentality than it does neutrality. But anyhow, that's how the future is, but what you gonna do when there is nothing on TV and your health limits your mobility eh ? Nothing much else to keep ones mind occupied, I mean twitter ? what ? I'm a goldfish ? I don't think so. Penyulap talk00:02, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
First, you told ANI you were going to topic ban yourself. You didn't. Then you told ANI you were going to retire. If you did, it didn't last long, did it? I'm sorry if health issues prevent you from being more mobile (if I understand you properly), but being disruptive here isn't the answer.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me, citation needed, where did I not keep to my word on a topic ban ? Plus, I think you may see, that when I said I'd retire I was under enormous stress brought on by the inflammatory behavior of some editors. Also, I think it's far fetched to say I'm disruptive. My talkpage and usepage testifies against you there. You're looking at one side and are blind to the shiny things and kind words. Shrug, your entitled to your opinion, and if there are editors out there who can't force me to agree with them specifically when they are wrong, well, tough. Doesn't mean I'm disruptive just because I'm not a mindless goat they can lead about on a rope. Penyulap talk00:34, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment at ANI:
The reason you weren't topic banned formally at the previous ANI thread is because you basically said "Hey, I should be topic banned" so everyone just said "Great, no need to great a formal ban, just go ban yourself." So rather than waste our own times in debating a topic ban, we figured we'd actually take you at your word. Topic banning you was never rejected, it was just never discussed because you said you'd ban yourself. THAT is why the topic is relevant now. It is especially relevant because even a few hours ago you said you thought a topic ban would be a good idea. only (talk) 23:43, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Ah! I see the source of your confusion there, yes, that was a common misunderstanding other people seemed to have. They were confused and couldn't see there is a difference between me banning myself and ANI banning me. See, it's not the same thing. I'm not ANI. Anyhow, eventually after the second round I saw they simply couldn't understand, I got fed up with their failures and topic banned myself because they simply refused to do it. I think it would have been worse for me if I had of pressed the point because they are so incredibly sloppy. The tooth fairy article was where the problems were completely limited to, as that was where the interaction with that particular editor was limited to, and there were suggestions to ban project-wide, which other editors described as a 'blunt instrument' and rightly so. I think it's a cultural thing, like the American game show 'Survivor' the entire concept is a monumental epic fail in other cultures and the TV show fails to penetrate those markets the way other popular tv show formats do. People on English wiki, mostly Americans, just want to 'vote you off' rather than integrate, (like the Japanese would), completely failing to realize they will be the only one left standing, or, failing to realize that when they are the only one left, that they will be the only one left. Ridiculous isn't it. How can you write an encyclopedia if you are going to ignore everyone ? you'll be writing a journal. Oh, where did I say a few hours ago about a topic ban ? Penyulap talk00:59, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
At the risk of psychoanalyzing you on such short aquaintance, I think you hit the crux of it (being ignored) - you crave attention. And here we are giving it to you. Oh, well, at some point it will end, at least in your present incarnation, because you will try the patience of enough editors, no one will believe you (I don't), and you'll be sanctioned accordingly. (As an aside, I don't understand what you mean by "project-wide" above, but the proposal was, I believe, a ban on articles related to mythical creatures.) Unless I have to, I won't be posting here again, so I'll let you have the last word (probably many of them, heh).--Bbb23 (talk) 01:16, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I so want to give you the last word, but you ask too many good questions of me. Project wide means all wiki projects, many editors only know of English Wikipedia, which we use now, but there are others, a Japanese Wikipedia, a Russian Wikipedia and so forth, there are quite a few. I have made at this moment, contributions to more than three dozen of them, but most of my contributions are space related, mostly ISS related, across 20 or so of them. So problems with one editor, on one article, at ANI turns up people shouting I should be banned across sites they may be completely unaware of, and many people show no signs they are even aware of any details at all of the dispute being discussed. It's called demagoguery and it's popular here, so popular I should write an essay to improve awareness of it. The ban for mythical creatures was also too wide. I had asked for an interaction ban, which was the ideal solution, to no avail. It wasn't even taken seriously or discussed. As for seeking attention, Wikipedia editors don't make the headlines like celebrities or talkback radio jocks or politicians, no, ours is a life of anonymity, punctuated only by an occasional barnstar I'm afraid. Wiki is no solution for attention seekers. Penyulap talk02:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Result of the complaint about your edits at the Edit Warring Noticeboard
wow, first I even knew of this, thanks for letting me know EdJohnston, it makes me wonder where else I am being talked about. Maybe I should use my crystal ball again. Penyulap talk16:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Saw your changes to the ROS pic, have to admit i like the highlighted USOS but the arrows arnt necessary. They confuse the image. Also, just so you know... Progress now only docks at
Pirs (future Nauka) site, and the Zvezda aft port. Soyuz will only ever dock at Poisk and Rassvet. The current photo shows this and is correct. You could annotate it to simplify it.
Check out my website, I now do most my posts on Twitter thru that page now. www.spaceshuttlealmanac.com. I am getting quite the following, and enjoying it much more than being insulted on Wiki. Hope you are well. Leebrandoncremer (talk) 08:16, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's true they are confusing, I was trying to get around requesting a slight counterclockwise rotation of the upper arrow before, it seemed not to be able to make up it's mind if it was pointing at the dm or the sm, so I thought I'd mess with it again. I know what you mean, between the fans on my talkpage and the recent assistance I got with the Operation Global Blackout article, and reading up about Wikidragons, Yeah, I'm loving it, it's all good. Penyulap talk09:44, 26 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
you've come to make up because you've improved the Tooth Fairy article to GA status and want help pushing it through to FA status. Hmmm, no that's not it. Stone cold there.
your stalking me and saw me talking about the tooth fairy article on my user talkpage, giving a fair summary of other editors opinions about the article, and mine too. Hmm, we're getting warmer.
For some reason you don't want to directly complain about that, and so decide to pick something else, and haven't researched that issue. Hey ! I think we're getting HOT here.
Say, how has it been ? Do you still have that 77 scorecard on your page ? Lemme have a look. Oh yes !!! it's up to 80 something. Anyhow, enough chit chat, how may I help you, the crystal ball isn't working, or is it working too well ? And, I'd also like to know is there any problem with me talking about my previous editing on the tooth fairy article on my talkpage ? Penyulap talk04:26, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
For those following along at some future AN/I discussion: {{Citation needed (lede)|reason= Because I give up helping you out moving it to the body, when you fail to understand it improves the articles quality and just shove it back in here, do it yourself |date=January 2012}}<!--<ref name="NYT-20120120">{{cite news |last=Weisman |first=Jonathan |title=After an Online Firestorm, Congress Shelves Antipiracy Bills |url=http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/21/technology/senate-postpones-piracy-vote.html |date=January 20, 2012 |publisher=[[NYTimes]] |accessdate=January 20, 2012 }}</ref>--
The SOPA article attracts many new users to it, and so I try to be more flexible with them rather than going straight to 3rr threats, in accordance with bite. That is a message for one very persistent POV (Pro-sopa) editor, the issue had been discussed on the talkpage. I figure if that is the problem, I'll have to be more direct with the poor guy. Penyulap talk06:00, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Or, rather than adding a direct quote with a vague tag saying it's in the lede (when it isn't) and isn't verified in the body and including a hidden passive-aggressive (and very bite-y) rant in the article, along with the source your tag says you don't have, you could have, perhaps, gee, I dunno, maybe, sorta, kinda cited the source. Whatever. As I see it, you can A) explain this now and later or B) fix it. My guess is you'll choose the attention of talking about it again later. - SummerPhD (talk) 06:23, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's ironic how you put a whole lot of passive-aggressive language into the exact same sentence as calling me passive aggressive. As for the issue of the article, I shall explain for the ever widening audience what's going on. The article was struggling to cope with the load of material and friction between editors, and there was a huge discussion about splitting it when I arrived, so I knew what to do to help with the article, and proposed it on the talkpage, and then later, unopposed, did it, that was, change the style, upgrade the quality of the article a notch or two. I took the old lead and put it into an overview section where it would contain all the things people were shoving into it and all it's refs, and then writing a good, easily read, lede. I'm pretty good with ledes and big articles cause of the ISS article. Anyhow my efforts were accepted really well, Barn starred and cookie bribed to do it to another article (not the tooth fairy article mind you, how is that article coming along btw SummerPhd? I expect your having trouble with "something that doesn't exist" ? can't write about it ? I can spit out a decent article about the Chinese space station in an hour so if you want help, no, wait, I think I said you're on your own with the tooth fairy.) I now see you've come here to my talkpage to try and get me worked up again. Provoke me no doubt. I see what you're up to. Anyhow, try to keep on track here, The lede doesn't have references in it anymore, in line with better quality, and Xenophrenic doesn't seem to want to pay attention to the discussion about that, just keeps deleting text from the article itself, moving it into the lede along with it's ref, mind you, it's pretty much just the bit about the postponement of the sopa bill. Penyulap talk06:55, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ahh, you use the ambiguous phrase (or in your dialect 'vague') 'fix it', thinking that I can 'fix it' by removing the template and blanked refs. Indeed, Yes, I'll do that to demonstrate the problem. Now there are two paths that can be taken, either Xenophrenic will read the discussion here (most likely) and then realize what it is that he is doing, or yet again, degrade the quality of the article by returning cites to the lede.(insert, cites were returned to the lede just after this by Xenophrenic) Because 'fix it' has many meanings, including 'try to talk to Xenophrenic yet again, on the article talkpage about what he is doing, and yet again failing' see that kind of fix it isn't working. You figure my doing as I have been doing before, that is, moving that info to the body of the article in a new section and summarizing in the lead will work. You're not aware that it has been failing. The only way it can work this time is if Xenophrenic reads this and realizes what he has been doing. Penyulap talk07:27, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
'Fix it' yes indeed, not 'remove it' not 'talk to Xenophrenic about it' not 'put the reference in yourself' not 'move the material to a new section and then summarize in the lede, as is intended for an article of that quality' no, just 'fix it' just "I think you know what is going on here" just "we homogenize all of wikipedia to exclude all other cultures and thinking, by expecting all users to think as we do, to know what we mean when we say "I think you know"" hmm. Yes, the systemic failing. The tyranny of the masses.Penyulap talk07:36, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict, I'll post this bit first but probably comment above, cause I already posted a tb on his page)
Well what do you know, he's no beginner. I'll ask him about his pushing here, you know, for continuity. Xenophrenic, can you tell me why, as I had asked you specifically on the talkpage, actually, here I'll quote my question
Xenophrenic, don't remove notable parts of the lead like this, say why you think they shouldn't be included.
The bill could make some proxy servers and the Tor project illegal and the Electronic Freedom Foundation (EFF) warned that websites Etsy, Flickr and Vimeo all seemed likely to shut down if the bill becomes law.
the protests were the biggest in Internet history, with over 115 thousand sites altering their webpages.
In response to the protest actions, RIAA stated, "It’s a dangerous and troubling development when the platforms that serve as gateways to information intentionally skew the facts to incite their users and arm them with misinformation," and "it’s very difficult to counter the misinformation when the disseminators also own the platform."
That was my question as timestamped there, next day, you've taken out two of them for the third time at the very least, without a mention of why on the talkpage, why is that ? Penyulap talk06:33, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the late notification, when I pressed preview to see if the tb was correct, I think a new messages thing came up and I was diverted. Penyulap talk07:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oh by the way, you keep removing things from the article warring style, 3RR style,
The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a rights advocacy non-profit group, confirmed the protests were the biggest in Internet history, with over 115 thousand sites altering their webpages.
The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) warns that proxy servers and websites hosting user-generated content, such as Etsy, Flickr and Vimeo, could be targeted under the bill.
plus what I have told you is a peacock term, 'expert'. I've asked you on the talkpage what is going on, and you've ignored me, and done it all over again the next day. You know better than that looking at your userpage. Penyulap talk07:56, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Penyulap. I have already explained my edits. I've seen the "___(insert favorite site here)___ could be targeted" argument, as well as rebuttals to that argument, but the WP:LEDE is not the place to conduct that debate — and it is certainly not the proper location in which to insert the assertions of just one side of the debate. The lead should normally contain no more than four paragraphs, be carefully sourced as appropriate, and be written in a clear, accessible style with a neutral point of view to invite a reading of the full article. It is already bloated; let's not add inappropriate text to it. The same applies to the uncited "EFF confirmed" assertion about protest size and numbers. Inappropriate for the lede; and as for the text in the body, it should be made clear that in this matter, EFF is not an uninvolved reliable source for assertion of fact. Even RT got the number from EFF, which took the number from here ... "confirmed", heh. What was unclear when I said I removed unsourced "EFF confirmed" assertion pending reliable sourcing; can only find EFF quoting non-RS "Fight for the Future" claims. The RIAA response, like the "7,000 websites" content, hasn't been touched in my recent edits.
Regarding your "peacock terms", I've addressed that on the article Talk page, and even expanded the discussion in response to your comment at the BLPNoticeboard; I have yet to see an argument in response from you to support your reverts. Speaking of which, regarding your comment: "you keep removing things from the article warring style, 3RR style" — my edits are policy-compliant, and I haven't violated the letter nor the spirit of 3RR. You, however, have. I haven't reported your several violations, because I believe you are actually trying to help — other editors may have less patience. I see an editor has already warned you; and 4+ insertions of the same EFF content in 24 hours, for example
Well I guess I should thank you for explaining yourself, still I wish you had of put this explanation onto the talkpage of the article when I asked you to. It sure would have helped me, and others too. What is the problem with putting explanations to things on the article talkpage when requested there ? Penyulap talk15:32, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As noted above, I had already explained myself on the talk page. It is still there for your review. The explanations in my edit summaries are also still there for review. You are very welcome for the re-explanations; no thanks are necessary -- I'm happy to repeat explanations indefinitely until the last vestige of confusion is gone. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that article was rather busy with newbies, and from the way that you were acting I fully concluded that you were a newbie. I see now that's not the cause. Here is why I thought you were a newbie.
Removing "The Electronic Frontier Foundation, a rights advocacy non-profit group, confirmed the protests were the biggest in Internet history, with over 115 thousand sites altering their webpages."
Removing "The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) warns that proxy servers and websites hosting user-generated content, such as Etsy, Flickr and Vimeo, could be targeted under the bill"
So I figured you weren't answering questions asked on the talkpage because you were a newbie. Considering the overwhelming speed of that article's editing, and the amount of newbies who I was helping on the article talkpage I'm sure you'll forgive me for not somehow noticing the, actually, where were the explanations again ? One of them was in the edit summary was it ? where were the others exactly? Penyulap talk16:12, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Of course you are forgiven. High-traffic pages can be confusing, as you've experienced, and it is easy to miss communications. Several of them are on the talk page under Expanded details of recent edits, and yes, there are also informative notations in the specific edit summaries, regarding sourcing issues and inappropriate lede content. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well you are somewhat unusual as you have opted out of assuming good faith, which is a concept I fully support along with Don't be a Dick. It would have been helpful, god I am stating the obvious here, that on a talkpage as busy as that one, with as many newbies as I am helping that when I ask you a very specific Question on the talkpage, that you answer it. No doubt you have all sorts of policy related excuses to play hide and seek behind just to make life difficult and disrupt efforts to improve the page overall. And no doubt your disruptive efforts are calculated with a precision you get a kick out of because they fall within the letter of policy. Those kind of efforts are at the core of the drive to destroy wikipedia. Most any book that is not a private Journal measures it's success by readership appeal. When Wikipedia sucks and blows as much as the tooth fairy article, which gives a few editors a kick out of the fight against vandals, people do not come back, wikipedia loses it's funding, (I mean it's a no-brainer you don't donate money to a shit project, you donate it to something worthwhile,) and Wikipedia is marginalized further. New editors are leaving in droves because of the treatment they get here, and that kind of behavior doesn't help. Any and all other projects that spring up with a similar mission statement as wikipedia, but that mission better structurally embodied within the governing mechanism will replace wikipedias share of the 'market'. Penyulap talk22:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Penyulap! These kinds of rants make you very difficult to deal with.. please consider how you are treating Xenophrenic. I think you are too demanding of other editors when it comes to answering your questions. Please remember that Wikipedia is edited by volunteers, and more important to Wikipedia than the funding is the amount of editor time which is put into it. As far as I can tell, Xenophrenic has been civil, polite, and non-disruptive.. I'm not sure if I could say the same for you!
So I think that the peacock term is being returned to the article because it is there in one other place I didn't notice ? So rather than remove peacock terms, we have to balance peacock terms in the article between the "supporters and opponents" sections of the article. Cool, and rather than explain on the article talkpage, it's explained somewhere else. No worries. I'll leave the peacock terms for you to balance out as you see fit. Penyulap talk16:51, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't see any "peacock terms", as was explained on the talk page. Perhaps you could be more specific? Do you refer to the way the article calls Crocker and Kaminsky Internet security experts, or Abrams a constitutional law expert? Do you refer to the several direct quotes that mention experts? I'm not seeing any inappropriate use of words as "peacock terms", just well-sourced accurate descriptions -- but perhaps I'm not seeing the specifc instance about which you are concerned. Xenophrenic (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What part of I'll leave the peacock terms for you to balance as you see fit don't you understand ? Stop asking me to be more specific about it, ask someone else. I know when I'm beat trying to get my point across to someone who refuses to assume good faith. Penyulap talk22:01, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This user is a WikiDragon making massive, bold edits everywhere.
OMG you're a total GENIUS, that whole "the rendezvous and docking project hardware is compatible with the International Space Station." - Jiang Guohua, a professor and chief engineer at the China Astronaut Research and Training Center in Beijing. is brilliant. Stick it in the article man ! I can't steal your thunder there, you've had that since march ? good thing you remember/mention it ! That is brilliant ! Especially since it's the first specific mention of the rendezvous system. Which suggests more than it reveals as to where the docking would occur, yes, because as far as I kwikinow, there is no (automatic) rendezvous system whatsoever on the USOS, it's strictly Russian.
Anyhow as for the public domain thing, it's like 'So totally too late' horse has bolted and so forth. The Americans are simply trying to make their version the standard, however, JAXA is the only agency I can see being told to take it up. The ESA, Russians and Chinese have the standard and are far too busy going to MARS to backtrack for no reason whatsoever, except to help America avoid the requirement to use the Russian designed system on it's craft in future if it wants to co-operate. If they get that onto the station, or if it is scheduled to go, like on the new commercial craft, then it's in the article, but as it is, can't see it's relevancy. (even though it is released into the PD it is still a US idea, and gives them boasting rights)
ITAR is just another way to say 'we don't like you' after all you can only copy answers in class if you are copying off someone who knows more than you, whats to learn from the ISS that 921 and tiangong 3 heavy don't already demonstrate ? Still if there is a page for ITAR, a link is good for the impediments that America makes towards Chinese partnership.
Re the technical incompatibilities, that's to do with the rendezvous system, is the Shenzhou optical whilst the Russian is RF, making it an obvious (and easy) requirement to EVA attach the appropriate fittings to the ISS first, they are always fiddling with the Kurs furniture up there, so it's no big hassle. Penyulap talk 05:09, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
"Which suggests more than it reveals as to where the docking would occur, yes, because as far as I know, there is no (automatic) rendezvous system whatsoever on the USOS, it's strictly Russian."
New non-APAS compatible system supports automated docking and is planned to be launched in 2014. But the important thing to remember is that we don't know if that is even required for Shenzhou to be able to dock, remember Soyuz is capable of both. -Craigboy
"Anyhow as for the public domain thing, it's like 'So totally too late' horse has bolted and so forth."
I don't know what you mean. -Craigboy
Oh, like the VHS/Betamax thing, regardless of which one seems better, the more popular one can become the default, although in this case I make no claims as to the PD one being better, as the APAS is more developed. Penyulap talk06:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, you found go taikonauts ! I been looking for a readable version of that elusive site for ages. I should have know it'd be well hidden between a www and a .com. I couldn't read the pdf you linked, it wouldn't open on my reader for some reason. I read another version, and saw what you mean, Europe isn't necessarily designing it, it's like each country will say 'this is our system' meaning they have adopted the standard, rather than invented the standard. Still, omg you're teaching me new stuff I didn't know before. The ironic thing is, if you put all of this into the China section, like the shenzhou could use the existing mechs till '15 or '16, and then use the new mechs after they are installed, you do know what it all summarizes down to ? yes, what penyulap insisted on in the first place, that they could dock in future if it becomes politically feasible. So we are both geniuses and both right and both agree. Hmph. (plus some other bright spark would support you, as I would, that all the docking talk goes in the docking section, and the co-operation section gets a small summary). Hey, lets put all this new stuff into the docking section now, ok ? Penyulap talk07:18, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The statement "that they could dock in future if it becomes politically feasible" is such an oversimplification of the truth, it infers that the hardware on Shenzhou is already compatible and will remain so.--Craigboy (talk) 09:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The Americans are simply trying to make their version the standard, however, JAXA is the only agency I can see being told to take it up."
The NASA Docking System isn't the standard, they had to modify their system to comply with it (previously had a different diameter). The standard was approved by the ISS Multilateral Coordination Board which consists of Canada, ESA, Japan and Russia. -Craigboy
"The ESA, Russians and Chinese have the standard and are far too busy going to MARS to backtrack for no reason whatsoever, except to help America avoid the requirement to use the Russian designed system on it's craft in future if it wants to co-operate."
I don't understand this statement, why do you think they are going to Mars any sooner than anyone else? Russian has only successfully landed a probe on Mars once. That was in 1971 and than they lost contact with it within 15 seconds. ESA has launched a single orbiter. China has never launched a probe to Mars (although they did have a payload piggyback on the failed Russian Phobos-Grunt). In the 2000s alone NASA has launched six probes towards Mars (not counting Dawn), five of them landers. The first five were successful missions (with Oprotunity currently operating more than seven years past its intended mission) and the sixth, Curiosity, is on its way. Curiosity is both the heaviest and largest object ever attempted to land on Mars. So like it or not, NASA is by far in the lead when it comes to Martian spacecraft. The United States is also the only country that has stated that they are building a super heavy lift vehicle, which is needed for Mars missions. If there really is a "race to Mars" than both Europe and Russia pose no threat, China with their growing GDP would be the only real challenger. I don't know what you mean by "they have the standard". -Craigboy
I did like the rovers, I was quite impressed with the, only disappointment there were batteries that lasted 6 months. you can get multifarad caps that last longer than that which would have given them a bit more life. seems a shame. Have a look here I especially like the comment that begins "that will be great for climbing all those ......." Penyulap talk18:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
well the first moon landing was a russian built craft, but who cares. I'll agree with you on chinas strength, but not about russian lack of knowhow, they own Leo's ass since '71, the stats show up lots of short term shuttle flights, 2 weeks max a piece, but the russians just stay there. some say they lost the moon because of their concern for safety and contingency. the americans never care about safety, ever. shuttle eject seats, crew and cargo, 4:1 eva hatches. they could go there for sure, but return ? who knows. but the american economy is withering and failing anyhow, so where could they get the cash ? still like i said, who knows, they'd get it somehow. Penyulap talk06:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"the americans never care about safety, ever. shuttle eject seats, crew and cargo, 4:1 eva hatches. they could go there for sure, but return?" Pen you've made a lot of misinformed comments before but this one takes the cake. I don't know what you mean about EVA hatches.-Craigboy
Yeah I do rave on a bit eh. Umm, there are 4 eva hatches on the ISS ROS before they have to use module hatches to get back in, so if one hatch fails, who cares. for the USOS, there is a single hatch, if that fails, they are looking for alternative ways in right there, according to docs, it's the ros hatches they use for contingency. One of the nasa shuttles I think columbia? flew with 2 ejection seats in trials, but rather than put them all in for all of the crew, they just took the lot out because lives are cheaper. The chinese have gone to a lot of trouble to get the escape system (same as the russian system) ready on their ships, there was never any question that escape at any point in the journey was prerequisite to building a spaceship. some say that the russian safety standards cost them the manned moon mission because they were going to do it safe or not at all, they were preparing contingency every step of the way, so if they couldn't life off, they'd walk 500 meters across the lunar surface to the backup craft and use that one. Crew and cargo means when something goes wrong with the cargo it kills the crew. if they are separate, as the recent progress that was lost, nobody gets hurt. Put them together, and there is trouble. The Chinese are not falling for it, but the Russian ppts looks like they are playing with fire. Re "Pen you've made a lot of misinformed comments before but this one takes the cake." I challenge that, I've made goofier statements than this I'm sure, and without a doubt I'll go on to make goofier statements for sure too. Penyulap talk18:26, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why would the ISS need four contingency airlocks? You can't put seven ejection seats in the Shuttle, take a look at where some of them are located. LAS is a requirement for Orion and the Commercial Crew vehicles. I don't know know where your getting your info on Russian safety standards. The Russians had no back-up craft planned, transfer to the lunar vehicle and later back to the Soyuz required a EVA (which increased risk), astronaut would be alone on the moon (if he became incapacitated that would be it) and their super heavy lift vehicle had four unsuccessful launch attempts. The Progress failure would not have killed the crew.--Craigboy (talk) 22:23, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
They have four contingency hatches because they learnt their lesson on MIR, or in rare cases where a crewmember is free floating towards the open airlock hatch at high velocity, another crewmember can open the hatch on the other side, and he can go whizzing on through, you know, to avoid a headache. :)
There were plenty of options for shuttle crew escape, a nobrainer is a cartridge that brings a lot of them out the side in one go or the generous provision of parachutes and sectioning the craft, but there are plenty of elegant solutions which were all 'too expensive', so ESA learned from that tragedy changing Hermes, and the Chinese never took the idea seriously, and the Russians took a good look at all those missing tiles on Buran after it landed, and decided robots were for cargo and have never mixed the two beyond a hundred or two kilograms. Anyhow I'm not saying anything that the Americans themselves haven't said a thousand times in this regard, you could write 500 articles full of criticism for the American space program, but I don't care for any of it. If someone else cares to include such nonsense good for them, I'll help them where I can, but it's hardly the inspiring stuff of dreams. Re the Luna, I think we've been reading different books with different accounts, and I'm glad, together we could paint a bigger picture with what we both know about it. Sweet! Re Progress, yes, that's the result of good planning, the Progress is lost, and nobody in the Russian federation is shedding a tear over it, but Columbia explodes during unprecedented viewership by elementary school students who are traumatized for a long time to come. That would shade their thinking about space travel throughout their adult life. Their are the lost cosmonauts, and every failure has been met with complete redesign to make sure it can't happen again. Look at their ballistic reentry modes. They fight to prevent them, they fight to make them even safer too. Penyulap talk23:16, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
They had four airlocks fail on Mir? A basket system was used for Space Shuttle. This cartridge system you propose would have a negative impact on payload mass, cost billions of dollars, not protect the crew in all contingencies and would not have prevented either the Challenger or the Columbia disasters. I doubt your claim about cargo on Buran. I would like to see the books that claim that Russia lost the moon race because they were too safe. Once again the failure that doomed Progress (a third stage Soyuz-U failure) would have not killed the crew. The retry-capsule would separate and the parachutes would deploy, the crew would come to a safe although rather hard landing.--Craigboy (talk) 11:32, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry whats a basket ? there are 4 hatches on two airlocks on the ros. on mir, one hatch failed, per my writing in the article. An EVA is grueling, it's a harrowing experience, it's like running around in wet cement, well anyhow, it's exhausting for the guys, and they get to the end of it, and are exhausted and tired can't concentrate, last thing they need is a new job, to figure out how to get in before their air runs out. It wouldn't happen, they can always get back into the ros, but it's better to have those very welcoming hatches at the end of the workday. I should write up about EVA being a health hazard actually. as for billions, there is nothing nasa does do, or doesn't do, that doesn't cost billions of dollars. You can say putting it is would cost billions and you could fairly say that not putting it in would cost billions. Nasa is sucking up billions for a manned program they don't even have. They're costing more and going backwards, out of orbit. There are plenty of ways they could have avoided challenger, and some are not mentioned in any of the articles I've scanned over. They could have survived, and the poor guys did for some varying amounts of time. Saying it can't be done is just Nasa officials way of saying all this money belongs in my pocket, not in any kind of working project. Safety is not impossible, that's ridiculous. What was the point of 7 people anyhow ? if you can send just two, with ejector seats, then fill the extra space with life support and there you go. I can't see sense in any of what they do, I tell you one thing, they are good at criticizing, because I could ref x 1,000 everything I've said here. But they go too far with the crit, and that makes china and russia reticent to talk. I've seen the docs, where even today, Russia has plenty of headaches dealing with america and it's press. I didn't say progress would kill it's crew, I said it never had a crew. If the MLM explodes on it's way to orbit for example to make it clear, it's not going to make any difference to anyone. well, someone loses their job of course, but every usos mod that goes up, if it goes wrong, that's not so good. Every load is different, so there is no ironing out the bugz like there is with the soyuz. I might get to the lunar thing one day, but I don't get interested in much beyond the ISS unless it's a follow on station. Hey isn't it funny how you point out there is no way for the US crew to survive, and there is no way for the Soyuz crew to die ? It's subconscious that the Soyuz is the best with no peer, see what I mean the Russians are insane to try to replace it? Penyulap talk13:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This is a basket. Can you expand on the hatch system Roscosmos uses? Your proposal would not have prevented any of the disasters. NASA has a manned spaceflight program. Development obviously costs money. NASA does many things that don't cost billions. Just because spaceflight is expensive doesn't mean that every multi-billion dollar expense is not a big deal. I didn't say the Challenger accident couldn't be avoided, I simply said that your proposal would not have prevented it. Who said safety is impossible? Do you mean never losing a crew is impossible? Do you think those five people just stood around, they performed the mission because there are other things to do besides landing the craft. NASA doesn't just launch additional crew members just because it would be cool to have more people in space. I'm dubious of those refs you claim to have. Why would MLM explode on the way to orbit? "isn't it funny how you point out there is no way for the US crew to survive, and there is no way for the Soyuz crew to die ?" It doesn't sound like you comprehend what I'm saying. Your ground cartridge proposal would not have prevented the Challenger disaster which occurred on its way to orbit or the Columbia disaster that occurred on re-entry. The third stage engine shut-off failure that doomed the Progress mission would not have killed a Soyuz crew is the same failure occurred on a manned mission.--Craigboy (talk) 14:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh ok, a basket, thanks, cool. I pretty much covered the hatches in the article. I don't mean to say that the escape system would have prevented the explosion. I mean it would have been one extra possible layer of protection. What would have prevented the accident in the first place is less political egotistical shit and civilized discussion. The people who made the O rings knew and did their best to convey to the higherup that there was a snowflakes chance in you know where that the O rings would survive launch that day. Anyone along the way should be able to stop the launch. I've brought production lines to a halt myself, and if it's not done, and if it can't be done by anyone at all, there is major trouble ahead. It's a fundamental feature of Japanese manufacturing philosophy for example. NASA paid for that mistake, the push for a launch and ignoring the engineers further down the line. MLM wouldn't necessarily explode on it's way to orbit, that doesn't mean it wouldn't have some of it's load shift or misbehave. Each of the loads for the shuttle are different, because of that, each of the loads has different possibilities for causing trouble. Although people are all different, so long as they keep their hands to themselves, they are pretty much all the same, so what can go wrong with the Soyuz has less variety.
Yes I am saying some of those 5 really do stand around a lot of the time. Come on, look up the mission objectives and scheduling. Actually look at 135, regarding the last EVA. They were going looking to scrub it, and have a look why. It's like the TBS guy. For saving the crew on the way up, they were still alive after the explosion. I can't see why a capsule inside the cabin that contained the seats couldn't have broken away and used parachutes, on the way back from orbit, it's the absolute defining example of why you do not mix crew and cargo together. Mixing crew and cargo killed the columbia crew and it may well kill a ppts crew too. The 3rd stage progress wouldn't kill a Soyuz crew, but it would kill a nasa shuttle crew, they have just two places on the globe to land, although the Buran was in a similar situation it had atmospheric jet aircraft engines, affording it a little more crossrange, but it's moot as they saw the hazards IMO. Sorry what do you mean ground cartridge, I mean a ejection or disintegrate-around-it kind of thing. Like a ballistic off nominal soyuz. Penyulap talk21:41, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"(even though it is released into the PD it is still a US idea, and gives them boasting rights)"
Why would that matter? -Craigboy
the speeches, the man to the moon thing, it's pretty standard, and why most countries go there, i mean the russians are nuts, they are reinventing the wheel with the ppts, only for the boasting rights, how dumb is that? they have soyuz and what is wrong with Soyuz that they need to double it's crew size and payload, they just want to say it's russian not soviet afaik, plus, they go backwards mixing crew and cargo. sheesh. anyway, no boast no budget, esp in the us. Penyulap talk06:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You think PPTS is re-inventing the wheel? I mean I've seen some strange spacecraft designs (I think T-SPace proposed an air-launched tube shaped spacecraft that would be recovered mid-air) but PPTS is based off of a well understood capsule shape, shares hardware with the older Soyuz (docking mechanism, Kurs...) and overall isn't that great of a technological leap. An advantage to the PPTS is that you could launch twice the crew of the same launch and you would need less docking ports on a space station for the same amount of crew. "anyway, no boast no budget, esp in the us." You seem to have forgotten the promises Russia has claimed over the years.--Craigboy (talk) 09:51, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the soyuz is there, it works, it's a mature design, safest there is. So why mess with it, spend more money on design than they can ever save on the mass produced and cheaper soyuz, plus kill a bunch of people whilst ironing out the inevitable flaws. What is the mission, compete for the title of deadliest space accident of all time ? at 6, it misses the mark, but is getting there. Yes, less docking ports, but who cares, seriously. More docking ports the better, more contingency. Everyone is obsessed with massive payloads. It's pointless. If something breaks on the station, something fails, they can send it up on the next progress which is never far away. Smaller frequent trips is good for the soyuz/progress combination, who wants to wait for fresh food until the next HTV omg. Three is a good size, you choose between a crew of two, being veteran and newbie team, like luke and obiwan, plus some cargo, or you go for the crew of three. A crew of 7 on the shuttle was kind of pointless, as you could never change over 7 people on the ISS could you, it's 6. A bunch of joyriders, but they don't even sell the extra seats. If there is something massive you send a proton, something medium send an unmanned soyuz like for the dc's. I stick with it, they're nuts. The only reason to reinvent the wheel is if they are trying to be lunatics (pun intended) and goto the moon. Penyulap talk10:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Because Roscosmos shouldn't be afraid of creating a superior spacecraft simply because of what-ifs. A six person spacecraft would allow you to have more back-up docking mechanisms, not the other way around. The ISS supports a crew of seven. If you have a seven person spacecraft you could launch an entire crew on a single mission, which would bring down your launch costs. It also allows you to bring down your entire crew in a single craft. PPTS isn't re-inviting the well, it is simply an evolution to a superior craft.--Craigboy (talk) 22:23, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Because this is a discussion that is not intended to be incorporated into any article means it doesn't have to conform to wikipedia style rules. No it is not an outrageous claim, from a capability aspect how is Soyuz superior?--Craigboy (talk) 11:32, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's fully ironed out. Every time you invent something there are bugs. It had bugs, deaths, those bugs have been dealt with, it's basically perfect as any carrier is ever going to get. There are wise rules, and you don't mess with perfection is a pretty good one. The cost is about as low as it's ever going to get, only the chinese will beat them there, So why spend up I think you like the word billions, to develop a new manned craft with no mission, when you can buy a few extra soyuz for much less, this isn't a nobrainer, people just cannot see that for example 7 crew in the Nasa shuttle is completely pointless, where are they going to go ? half of them at the very least are joyriders. If ISS is the destination 6 is at best the limit, but you just don't swap out the entire crew, it's not a good idea for the handover. Better to have half the crew knowing what the station is up to, with time enough to bring them up to speed. Look at it this way, you can make a shuttle that takes 10 people, that was Buran, it was meant for 10 crew, but where were they heading ? 10 people get into space and say, well we're here now, what next. There won't be destinations for decades at this rate because idiots are in charge of everything and return to square one. Why rebuild the Soyuz? it's insane. Although, by comparison, they are the sane ones when you look at America, the president said, I kid you not and would expect you already know, that the 'best way to get to mars was to goto the moon first and launch from there' It wasn't one of those bush moments, because the head of NASA came out the next day and repeated the whole thing. With these people in charge, nobody is going anywhere. and omg the americans restart from square one every time they get a new president, it's like watching a goldfish try to remember where they were up to with their space program. Heartbreaking no doubt. Penyulap talk12:46, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Perfection doesn't exist in engineering. Because it costs less money to transport six astronauts in one craft than in does two, and it simplifies space station design. Pen you really need to learn more about the Shuttle missions if you think half of crew were joy riders. The long duration crew size capability of the ISS is seven. Do you think Buran would be flying into space with no payloads? They are not rebuilding the Soyuz. Although I don't support it but getting to Mars from the Moon is a popular view within the aerospace community, but I don't believe Bush mentioned this method in his Vision for Space Exploration and I would like a source saying other wise.--Craigboy (talk) 14:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Spacecraft assembled and provisioned on the moon could escape its far lower gravity using far less energy, and thus, far less cost.
— Epic Accounting Fail. Encyclopedia of epic accounting fails Google search, pp 55-57.
Maybe perfection doesn't exist but there is no shortage of EPIC FAIL. It doesn't cost less to transport 6 than it does 3, it's a common misconception actually. It is a fair true statement, but only at certain points in time, right now, sending 2 lots of 3 on a Soyuz is cheaper than the russian ppts ever will be. The ppts cannot win out over Soyuz until a point in time that is far distant, and on only one set of possible continuums. The development costs compared to individual purchased of Soyuz flights is a loser for ages. The cost savings cannot kick in for decades yet, assuming there are cost savings. Thing is, there is no correlation between the cost of a launch vehicle and it's payload capacity when it comes to human flight, if there is, I'd love to see it plotted on a graph. That would be a nice thing for an article. If you want joyriders, then Buran illustrates for you what the NASA shuttle is not clear on. Because the ROS assembles itself, then 10 crewmembers seriously have nothing whatsoever to do, and no destination. Rassvet needs 7 people to deliver it ? well, maybe a few extra in comparison to the soyuz delivering it. Kurs is a no brainer timesaver compared to canadarm2 and a shuttle. Yep, the ROS method is a spectacular win, 1,000 hours the shuttle editors estimate, compared to a few hours max to supervise all the assembly dockings that took place. Anyhow, it's no secret the Russians get better value for money in their space budget compared to the americans, I think though, it's the chinese that are the ones to watch in the decades to come. ARGH, everything is too slow!!!!! Penyulap talk21:41, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" whats to learn from the ISS that 921 and tiangong 3 heavy don't already demonstrate ?"
i meant css, sorry, I often called it that before. The what's to learn means if the US is trying to cover up it's homework so that China can't copy the answers, where is the logic in that ? Because the Tiangong testbeds already are as advanced as skylab, and the Russians and Chinese freely exchange all other technology, and the Chinese are working on their indigenous 3rd Generation project, so what can they copy ? ESA and the US are catching up to Russia making their own atmospheric reprocessing, China has station GNC testbeds, I'm not seeing much that they can benefit that the Russians wouldn't give them for just asking. Maybe there is something I am missing.Penyulap talk06:20, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's exactly what I mean, what is there to protect ? The technology for the css is pretty straightforward for them they've done T-1 now, and seriously, wow, there you go, they can build the whole thing. Next is to furnish the inside with critical systems, and who is good at that ? their friends, the Russians. Simple. what's to protect. If there will be any copying of answers the Russians would be deliberately allowing China to copy off them, holding up their paper, they've been doing it all along, like in the css article.. Penyulap talk09:32, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Uh no... Pen you realize there's a reason they're not going straight from Tiangong-1 to the large orbital station?--Craigboy (talk) 22:23, 27 January 2012
Because everything goes too slow in space development, I'm sure they're doing it just to annoy me. We should all be living in deep space by now, or at least I'd like to. :) Penyulap talk23:16, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I put that one back in, initially I left it out because I had to shove in so many refs for it, that it would ugly up the article, so I just left it out. I didn't know how to do notes, (I probably still don't actually) anyhow, I put it back in, and wrestled until I got the notes thing looking ok. Let me know if it seems ok to you. I think I left out one, but that's ok too, as it's generally, rather than always, and I can't care to find out or telephone the guy :) Penyulap talk10:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Penyulap. I had to deny the transfer of File:Isshtv120090917200858nm.jpg from here to Commons, as Commons cannot accept "word of mouth" permissions for files, and technically they are not accepted here, either. You will need to get in touch with the author, and have them send an email to OTRS stating the filename and that they release the image under a particular license or into the public domain. Full instructions can be found at Commons:OTRS, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have. Thanks. — Huntster (t@c)10:17, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, I have checked my email and found a delivery failure, well buried too, I have sent Ralf Vandebergh another request and expect it won't be too long before he replies, I'd say give it a few weeks, as he might travel, or not, I don't know what his schedule is. To put your mind at ease a little, I had organized through Ralf for his portrait to be released, it's on his article page. It's not a self-portrait, but it's the one he suggested and sent to me, and it looked fine in my opinion for inclusion. So he is keeping in touch with me and it shouldn't take too long. Something I brought up in the email I just sent is the option of people giving me permission to act on their behalf in these cases, do you know what form I can send to them for that, so I can release their pictures as I see fit, that would simplify things I think. Chris peat from Heavens-above is just like yep go for it, anything I like from his site, so it would be good if I get a once only form for these people, and they can suggest to me conversationally what they'd like to do, rather than use the forms all the time. Penyulap talk11:48, 31 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Update, after not hearing from Ralf for one month, I re-sent an email, as I had predicted he was busy over the break and may have overlooked the email in the rush (his inbox overflowed). I shall forward his response, which contains the correctly filled out form to the proper place. Thanks Huntster. Penyulap talk23:21, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Update, a volunteer from permissions-nl at wikimedia responded that there is no file of that name on commons, well I was a bit silly, because I forgot or didn't know that it's not on commons yet, it's on english wiki. I've responded to the email explaining the situation and await their response. Penyulap talk22:52, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was looking at ISS article, particulary this section, and I think it's a good idea to make clickable version for some of its images, by labeling them like this one, also we can make clickable areas with a different method (yeah, cool! I made some before, see this one) -- using ImageMap MediaWiki extension (itself uses the <map> tag). I like doing these sort of things so if you think it is useful just say the word and I'll come to assist. --Z01:00, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict, we both went after that 'I') OMG you're my new bestest friend. I've been crying out all over the page for help there, and labeling all the piccies in three or more languages, YOUR IDEA IS AN OUTRAGE to all the shit work I've been doing so far. Please, we so need it because it's really easy to change labels that are not in the image itself to suit all the different wikipedia languages as well, 77 last time I counted, but some of those are beyond hope. (Wikipedia is not a concept that translates into many cultures for reasons I won't go into.) Choosing the image is the interesting part, because we need super hires ones that zoom in, because I can label all the dohickies and whatsimacallits and thingamabobs on the outside of the station and ships too. But lets start with something simple I guess. It's hard to find one for all the pressurized modules, except when the station is viewed from it's underside ! And Kibō is so camera shy all we can come up with is this here at the top, to show her on orbit. Blah! The File:Russian Orbital Segment.png pic is an awesome choice, it's used across a few articles. Craigboy, and if we can treat the poor bloke with a bit more respect, Leebrandoncremer, are experts with images and so forth. But how about TheAnarcat pic in the structure section, is that one a cool place to start off ? (darn, something wrong and I can't load it atm) anyhow, if it's as hires as i recall, maybe it's the place to start, what do you think, where would you like to start, and how can I help, besides 200% support of course? Penyulap talk01:45, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
TheAnarcat pic is brilliant, and I just realize we don't need to zoom the pics, as we can easily add links same as any other links, to separate more detailed pics, easy ! Penyulap talk02:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Solvay Conference, that is exactly it, that is brilliant work. Precisely what we need. Precisely. The article has been crying out for this since the beginning of time. Penyulap talk02:36, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wow I didn't guess that it may be so usefull really, well, it is very easy to do, firstly we need blank versions (without texts) of those two images you mentioned, File:Russian Orbital Segment.png (this one looks ok) and File:Iss027e036656-commented-20110608.svg. Can you do that please? Then we can work on the templates. I think ROS is easier to do so lets start with it. I also made a sample here (just wanted to show you we can change anything--font sizes, colors, discriptions, etc.) --Z05:43, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Useful ? are you kidding ? this is like 5 Christmases all at once, it's unbelievable, we will finally be able to clean up that crappy article, I mean, the work people have put in is great, but lets face it, with your skill on board, it'll be proper encyclopedic material. That image you look for is here and the ROS is going fine.
Now my other genius idea is that the links don't just goto the different articles, but they goto different images, so you've got click to zoom, which takes you to different pictures and different portions of the station. Have you seen something called google streetview ? you click links that move you up and down the street. Now that is what I'm talking about. A dam good article. should be plenty of inspiration there for everyone. Penyulap talk06:48, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm actually trying to use the both methods in one! So the articles would be opened by clicking on the labels, and if people click on different parts of the ROS they will go to the related image. I finally found the tool which I was seeking, made by Dapete, now just copy this line:
and paste it in User:Penyulap/common.js and save the page, then open File:Russian Orbital Segment.png (only Firefox and IE are supported) and you will see "ImageMapEdit >" just under the picture (clear cache if needed), then click on it, I know you will find out how to use it with a little fiddling with it (use both left and right click to define a new area) tell me if you need any help! --Z09:52, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
{{Russian Orbital Segment}}
I hope you enjoy it! You know, I have a lot of ideas about this project, based on your genius idea we even can make something like Google maps, it's a quite unique thing in the Wikipedia and I really would like to implement it soon, people can explore the station just like they do it with earth in Google maps, it would be a great thing, wait what I'm taking about, I came to talk about the image, I know there may be some errors in it, I've learned a bit about these subjects, but still can't fully understand the structure of even this component, so it is good to check it yourself. This was just a start, we can work on the station layout after that. --Z23:06, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And the Image Map Editor, it is very easy to use -- click on that "ImageMapEdit >" in image's page, somethings would appear now, then click on "rectangle" so a new area would be created and now we should set a couple of coordinates: (1) the top left one, by left click and (2) the bottom right one, by right click. when the wrk is down, scroll down a bit and the generated code is there. --Z23:09, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so some polish, the rectangles for the soyuz and progress can be larger to envelope the whole ships, they are black with white tails. The top one, and the one on the right hand side are soyuz the other two are robot progress ships. the part in the dead centre of the picture is part of the Zvezda module. And the click to go inside almost killed me, it is the best part of the lot !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Penyulap talk23:33, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Some of the image editor I could understand, I fiddled about with an image of the little robot called dextre, but I figure I need to read up on the docks to get the links and hover over text right. You seem to have got that all perfected, I should never have doubted you there. Also in the picture there are the little kurs antennas, I can tell you where they are, there are two kinds, one kind we can call 'kurs station antenna' and the other kind we can call 'kurs ship antenna'. now on the picture, looking at the vertical line of ships and modules, you can notice sticking out the left hand side there are 4 little do-Hickies. they are all spaced out evenly in a line. they are 'kurs ship antennas' and they are the parts you'll find easiest of all. Now for the kurs station antennas, you'll only see two of them easily. They are spaced between the other antennas. Between the top two you can see a faint little thing, and that's a 'kurs station antenna' there is another one in the mirror position at the bottom, between the two bottommost kurs ship antennas. The remaining two you can't see on the photo, but you should make them just the same, if you draw a straight line just in your mind through all of those antennas, then the place where it hits the hull of zvezda is the location of the two remaining antennas. This would be a really cool thing to explain to people. (There are other kurs antennas in the pics on those ships, but we won't worry for just now) Penyulap talk23:58, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for explaining, I found six of them but am not sure about the two other (also you can modify that too by importing the code of ROS template into to the ImageMapEditor) and I think we need a zoom feature so people can more easily find/see and click on these small things (I'm working on it) --Z20:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Outstanding, I have linked two of the images together, the one you did, and another when you click on pirs in yours. I am working on Template:Zvezda aft there are so many little things to label, and it won't matter which ones you can find or can't. There is a quote from a movie "If you build it, they will come" and that is the case for this one. There are for example, a lot of little religious pictures in zvezda, so I shall ask what they are, also I noticed a sticker that celebrates Saint Petersberg, and there are magic markers, and Photo lenses too. So people will help identify all sorts of things, cameras, computers, photos, actually it'll be nice if we can find enough experts still remaining on wiki to label the experiments. I have a feeling that MLM42 would be only too happy to fill more pages with discussion, but only if they are about me and not about wikiproject spaceflight matters, so I won't bother to ask, but you are most welcome to help out mlm42. Anyhow, there are plenty of images to poke at, and we are bound to find advice on how and where to organize them too, so lets just have fun. This is so where the party is at right now. I've been able to get the editor to work some places, and others I've annoyed it a little as it didn't seem to open first time, but there is not a problem, I'll find out why it is glitchy at some point. This is so cool. 100 % agree about the zoom, we'll work it out, or help shall be offered, so don't worry. Penyulap talk21:08, 29 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
here are some dodgy links and or labels, need lots of scrubbing up, but may show this or that or be of some use. -pen
circle 620 582 20 [[Kurs|Kurs ship antenna]]
circle 622 474 10 [[Kurs|Kurs ship antenna]]
circle 617 350 10 [[Kurs|Kurs ship antenna]]
circle 609 241 20 [[Kurs|Kurs ship antenna]]
circle 629 764 20 [[Kurs|Kurs ship antenna]]
circle 620 59 20 [[Kurs|Kurs ship antenna]]
circle 972 637 15 [[Kurs|Kurs ship antenna]]
circle 611 531 20 [[Kurs|Kurs station antenna]]
circle 611 290 20 [[Kurs|Kurs station antenna]]
circle 619 455 8 [[Kurs|Kurs station antenna]]
circle 619 369 8 [[Kurs|Kurs station antenna]]
circle 976 605 7 [[Kurs|Kurs station antenna]]
poly 939 500 983 500 983 509 963 517 972 548 963 554 [[NASA space shuttle|mounting brackets for NASA space shuttle]]
poly 967 572 930 585 941 594 989 594 972 582 [[NASA space shuttle|mounting brackets for NASA space shuttle]]
poly 1040 592 1058 572 1084 589 1080 598 [[NASA space shuttle|mounting brackets for NASA space shuttle]]
poly 1044 498 1083 500 1055 557 1049 548 1055 515 1041 512 [[NASA space shuttle|mounting brackets for NASA space shuttle]]
poly 333 472 332 427 336 389 329 384 336 350 375 335 492 342 546 367 600 367 612 383 639 387 649 381 691 384 694 438 639 433 609 441 591 453 595 395 575 381 483 420 481 466 398 467 395 400 386 361 361 359 370 416 370 467 [[Zvezda SM|Zvezda Service module, life support, station's bridge with avionics(guidance navigation) propulsion, 2 crew quarters, kitchen.]]
poly 396 469 372 469 370 413 393 413 395 443 383 443 376 449 383 457 393 458 390 398 370 398 362 372 386 372 [[Zvezda SM|Zvezda Service module, life support, station's bridge with avionics(guidance navigation) propulsion, 2 crew quarters, kitchen.]]
circle 386 450 10 [[Zvezda SM|Window]]
poly 302 376 329 386 329 342 305 341 [[Zvezda SM|antenna]]
poly 486 467 517 460 591 453 589 398 514 432 486 435 483 452 [[Zvezda SM|Zvezda Service module, life support, station's bridge with avionics(guidance navigation) propulsion, 2 crew quarters, kitchen.]]
poly 481 424 574 384 589 396 509 432 [[Solar array]]
poly 847 375 887 467 955 438 916 347 [[Solar array]]
poly 171 384 210 378 264 384 304 379 333 393 332 433 292 446 264 438 234 444 170 440 136 450 128 413 133 370 [[Progress spacecraft|Progress robot spacecraft]]
poly 128 298 179 301 187 372 179 379 157 383 139 370 [[Solar array]]
poly [[Solar array]]
poly 151 453 173 444 197 450 211 518 162 521 [[Solar array]]
poly 913 736 972 743 976 759 972 782 915 774 [[Solar array]]
poly 1033 747 1030 782 1115 787 1109 745 [[Solar array]]
poly 972 589 993 594 996 605 1040 602 1047 571 1041 537 1043 501 1052 489 1052 469 1032 449 989 447 969 472 972 495 983 511 973 524 [[Rassvet|Rassvet dock and mini science module]]
poly 697 441 742 470 884 474 845 375 895 356 740 353 694 384 [[Zarya spacecraft|Zarya, first module, replaces Polyus, cargo bay, fuel storage, original propulsion, guidance and navigation.]]
poly 890 469 955 467 984 443 1027 440 1040 427 1041 389 1006 392 992 390 986 370 959 364 966 356 922 355 955 438 955 441 [[Zarya spacecraft|Zarya, first module, replaces Polyus, cargo bay, fuel storage, original propulsion, guidance and navigation.]]
Is the auto-archive for Talk:Stop Online Piracy Act still working? The Talk page is now over 200k bytes, which is very long indeed. I see many discussions that are much older than five days, (as an example the Proposed Blackout section ended on Jan 19th) so that's why I thought things weren't working. 5 days is long enough, and I understand it's a popular and controversial topic, but I just wanted to make sure that Miszabot was working right. Please fix if not. Thanks, Jessemv (talk) 17:24, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is working, there is also manual archiving of the page occuring, and there is the other thing where there are open questions that have no answers. Archiving is meant to clear up a page of things that are not needed anymore, but there are a lot of things that still need addressing. Anyhow, Sloggerbum, Kranix and I, but mostly Sloggerbum, have been fiddling with the archiving, sloggerbum set up archives and manually filed things away, Kranix polished up archive names and so forth, I set up the automatic archiving. Now the thing to remember, is that archiving is never meant to supress a converstaion. That's not it's purpose. Some people try to fiddle with it to get rid of conversations they don't like, I find it quite funny really. You can undo archiving by clicking undo on the talkpage and the archivepage and then either comment on the converstaion to keep it open or use a template called do not archive until. If you have any problems just ask I am happy to help.
The talkpage was a very busy one, so it was long, and it's actually 14 days but someone fiddled with the label is all. I shuffled around sections so they were easier to find on the table of contents, I shall have another look and tidy it as soon as I have a few moments. Penyulap talk10:24, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the explanations, and best of luck to your fixing it all up. I completely agree that archiving rates should be reigned in if they are impacting conversations or open questions. It's just that it was long and there was a lot to scroll through is all. Thanks, Jessemv (talk) 18:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I swear I haven't done it yet, I didn't have time, this makes me feel so guilty that I'll go and cleanup that article as soon as I have a moment to spare. Hmmph. Ah! so thats the plan... Smart thinking ! :) Penyulap talk10:09, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Owch I had a look at the article and yes, it IS as bad as I thought, someone just pointed out how crap it is on the talkpage, I will get to work, but I don't have a great deal of time right now, I shall make some time asap. That link you put there is really good, I can use very similar wording to summarize, it's awesome. Penyulap talk10:13, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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The Zarya and Zvezda ones would have slight mission-specific mods, Penyulap
Zvezda does not have an APAS mechanism, and Zarya only has one (which connects it to USOS).Craigboy (talk) 01:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
(inserted text) Yep, your right there, one point to Craigboy :) Penyulap talk
You assuming there are "lots" of different versions of APAS and your "penyulap skills" telling you they are all pretty much compatible.
there are lots of different versions [of APAS], Penyulap
There really is only three.Craigboy (talk) 01:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Three is lots. besides, I'm sure there are other versions we don't know of offhand. Plus my penyulap skills tell me that the different versions are pretty much compatible, and we won't find it referenced either way, not easily. Penyulap 03:00, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
No Pen, these were the only three ever used. APAS-75 in no way would be able to dock with APAS-89, the petals are completely different, the diameters are different and the hooks don't line up. Not to mention the last APAS-75 docking was in 1975, and the first APAS-89 docking was in 1993. And there would be no reason for APAS-89/95 to be compatible with APAS-75 because it wasn't even in use after 1976.Craigboy (talk) 04:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
(inserted text) Naa, Jury is still out on that one. There are lots more besides those, some with fancy names some only on paper, like for Buran. The pinouts for the connectors would use mission specific designations, pipes and tubes and stuff would vary (if there are any) according to mission. Penyulap talk
There's variations within the the three, but not a lot. I don't consider paper ideas worth noting because of the near endless amount of proposed modifications to any space hardware. I don't think designation means what you think it does. Expand of the mission specific modifications you think exist.Craigboy (talk)
You assuming APAS-75 is compatible with APAS-89/95.
You could call it 'apas compatible' but every version of APAS is apas compatiblePenyulap
Only APAS-75 is not.Craigboy (talk) 01:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Oh I'm thinking it is myself. Wasn't that the one used on that whole Apollo-Soyuz (Or reversed in Russian, as Soyuz-Apolla, lol) mission thing. There was like one Russian designed APAS-75 on each craft and the whole thing went down smooth, without any embarassing moments in space where they found out that APAS-75 was not APAS compatible ? Penyulap 03:00, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
(inserted text) hey wait, your assuming I'm assuming 75 and 89 are compatible. I'm saying every one they make joins up to something, that's for a start. like the soyuz and the apollo ones. you know, no embarassing moments. but here...
(hey wow, I just saw how long this section is, WOW, this is amazing !) Umm, ok, compatible in the way there'd be fewer variations on the mechanical parts, so you could get one meant for one mission and slam it into another for some other mission, and they'd dock and hold, but the wiring wouldn't work. Like that, not all of them though, but fewer mechanical 'strike plate' variations than connector variations (electrical or liquid, gas options). Penyulap talk
APAS can't transfer liquid. The connectors for any APAS-89/95 mechanism would match to themselves. There's really only three sub variations, one with soft docking latches and pressure seals (Space Shuttle), one with soft docking latches but no pressure seals (Krystall) and one with no soft docking latches and no pressure seal (PMA-2,PMA-3, Zarya).--Craigboy (talk) 13:12, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
'APAS can't transfer liquid.' will be proven wrong in future. Androgynous systems are not going out of style anytime soon, and refueling and re-gassing are the norm for many craft. I think the different perspective here is causing the trouble. I see APAS as an abbreviation of Androgynous Peripheral Assembly System, a generic term, but your limiting yourself to the period of '75<->'15 ? So for you it's like a trademarked name, for me it's just Androgynous. Would that be about right ? Not that we are wrong, but that we are seeing things from those different perspectives. Penyulap talk
What would you call it then ? I managed "Bisexual" and we couldn't use that as a technical generic term. Androgynous Peripheral Assembly System is pretty good. Penyulap talk
You could just call other androgynous docking mechanisms simply androgynous docking mechanisms. I hope you're not offend by me asking but is not English not your first language, because if its not then I can totally understand why you're getting hung up on this.--Craigboy (talk) 11:26, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not offended, but I haven't mentioned the answer to the personal question anywhere I don't think. However it is fair and true to say that there are a number of factors that make communications somewhat difficult with some native english speaking editors, but with very many that is not the case. I do think I can reach further across language barriers than most people I've seen on English wiki, I have very many times rescued and translated comments by other editors where people have labeled their comments as vandalism or some such because they didn't understand what was being communicated. 'Language barriers' are something people can create between themselves and another person who speaks the same language a perfect example is say, an artist and an engineer, or soldier and priest, it is easy for them to give up on each other and say 'I have no idea what he is trying to say'. Or if you take a businessman and strand him in the middle of a ghetto he can't speak the same language and will be misinterpreted. I can communicate with people who wish to communicate, but some people don't want to. (probably why some ISS editors can't see any other editors who disagree with them for years). Docking isn't really the same as Peripheral Assembly is it though, it's somewhat different. I'd generally think that docking is more a Soyuz kind of thing although yes they use a probe, and assembly is more a module to module assembly thing. Penyulap talk
You assuming that APAS mechanism was used in over 200 dockings when that's obviously not the case.
Two ways, One as a simple indicator that the APAS system is used for other things rather than just the shuttle. Recall if you will STS-135 was the last mission, so 200 dockings can't have been performed by the NASA shuttle even if every one of it's trips went to the ISS. It's a fair indication that there is more to the story. Instant indication that there is more to be researched. Two, as for the peacock term, I'd say 'many is understated' if after all many is the wrong word to describe 200 dockings, what would be said of the shuttle docking system ? it's seldom-used ? that wouldn't go down well with readers. I'm thinking whatever the shuttle uses has been used 'many times' and something that has been used more often than that can have a 'many' or something even better. Penyulap 02:47, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Pen its a bad source. The 200 dockings statement probably wasn't even meant to be about APAS, how could it be? Since APAS was mostly only used for the Shuttle program. The 200 dockings probably meant to be about the Probe/Drogue system. Many was only a peacock term for "...China, Europe and Russia have a co-operative relationship in many space exploration projects" because they have only done a few missions together.Craigboy (talk) 04:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
This is an agent moulder moment, research Craigboy, because 'the truth is out there' C 06:26, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
And you shouldn't be looking for it from an author who has no history on writing articles on spaceflight.Craigboy (talk) 07:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
(inserted text) Hey, I totally had a cite for that and everything, you know, the nice old man who died and all, if your going to try and tell me there are less than 200 dockings, you go get a cite, fair is fair. Penyulap talk
You assuming that Zarya forward is a usable docking port, you assuming a docking adapter could be built and launched in three months.
Sweet, but only if you find a proper ref that says they can't be uncovered, or new ones can't be sent in preparation for the Chinese visit, or new arrangements cannot be made in preparation for the Chinese visit. Then and only then the statement 'the Chinese could dock in future' would be incorrect. If the Chinese and the Europeans or the Chinese and the Russians especially wanted to do a Apollo-Soyuz historic handshake in space they could do it in 3 months prep time, but why bother ? there is no big rift to cross. They don't go boasting about what is possible they just get on with doing it, with small announcements of what they are about to do. Saying this and that is possible is not their style, for either of these superpowers. Penyulap 02:38, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
If the Zarya is disconnected from PMA-1, than it would no longer be the International Space Station. Russia uses different docking ports so they're not compatible like the source says. "Then and only then the statement 'the Chinese could dock in future' would be incorrect." No because it can dock with USOS. You would not be able to build and launch an adapter in three months.Craigboy (talk) 04:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
(inserted text) Zarya forward IS a usable docking port, and it IS being used. Naturally if you want to dock a few chinese modules or craft to it, you'd want to jettison the USOS first. It's an alarming idea for sure, and would possibly come as a surprise to anyone in Kibo at the time (I don't think there is a button on the Zvezda console for it. I wonder if they could try to grab the ROS with a robot arm on the USOS before their air ran out?), but hey, jettisoning the USOS is an option that has been tossed about a number of times in end-of-mission planning. Plenty of times where NASA funding is looking less than stellar, they've considered abandoning the project, how many times has that happened ? Then the Russians think what options do we have ? They can either come up with a shiny new space station at short notice and limited budgets or they can keep on using the ROS, which is designed for refurbishment. (though I think it'd get just as ratty and dilapidated as MIR was eventually, but it'd do until they got something better on orbit)
3 months prep time IS enough, WHEN there is a burning need for it. Docking ports don't need to take forever to slap together, the Russians have done complete missions in short times like that, to celebrate past events I think. The Russians and Chinese are good friends. Flight time between the two countries is short, the engineers are known for working together well (Phobos) so arranging a different docking port on the shenzhou is not going to take a million years. Pack up a bit of equipment and Russian engineers, send em over with a kurs or two and whatever else is required and there you go.
THe whole 'the Chinese could dock in future' is a broad unqualified statement which is far too easy to make true. I suggested 3 months, they can take 10 years and it's still true. Penyulap talk
Its not usable because a module is berthed there and cannot be berthed anywhere else. Zarya is not meant to be re-used, ISS funding is secured through 2020. I thought you referring adding a docking adapter to the ISS?
Is there an American presidential election before 2020 ? If there is, and there is a new president, it's harder to say, as each end every president turns the whole space program upside down. (btw if you use three little squiggles instead of four to sign with it leaves the date off) Penyulap talk
Don't go their girlfriend. That is a Craigboy wild assumption right there. :) I love it, but when has there ever been a presidential decision in America that Americans ever liked ?
But ok, I'll go along with it, (sarcasm) the next US President won't make any bad decisions or dissapoint the public in any way, or at least it's 100% unlikely. would you believe 'Its extremely unlikely', how about 'most probable', no, 'wait and see' ? hmm.. Penyulap talk
They save that up for after the election, but you may mean have they mentioned it already, well yes many times there is discussion on that, everytime there is any kind of crisis and so forth. but it's just talk. Penyulap talk
I'll go look for some. hey you haven't commented on the good stuff we have done yet ! Penyulap talk
You defending information that has been verified as being incorrect and you showing strong bias
His highly reliable electromechanical systems, which included the Androgynous Peripheral Assembly System, the proper name of the docking system, in addition to onboard manipulators and reusable solar arrays, are among the jewels of the Russian space program.
His docking system was first tried out on unmanned spacecraft in 1967 or 1968, he told the publication Space News, then on two manned capsules in 1969. It successfully docked more than 200 missions and has never had a failure in space
The source is inaccurate which is why you should avoid non-space flight publications. APAS-75 was the first APAS mechanism but it wasn't used until the 1974 (unmanned test for the Apollo-Soyuz mission). The manned mission your quote is mentioning Soyuz 4/Soyuz 5, this used a very early version of the Russian Probe and Drogue (which Vladimir Syromyatnikov also worked on) that is used today.Craigboy (talk) 00:58, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with the source, it is clear the person has done more research into APAS and is a better source than if the front page of the NASA website itself said "APAS was used to dock the shuttle to the ISS". A well researched point made by some little person beats a misleading half-truth from the NASA website. Penyulap 02:25, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Pen are you serious? They got many basic things wrong (and the author is by no means an expert on the subject, but yet you take here word but not that of the engineers at Boeing). Your politcal ideolgies seem to be getting in the way of your objectivism.Craigboy (talk) 04:57, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Yes I'm serious, Patricia is giving lots of leads and facts you can use to do further checking. Thats great. The Boeing 'engineers' as you call them, use the word 'clone' in a manner that defines the text book dictionary definition of 'unsubstantiated claim' it's an offhanded insult or a sloppy guess at best. Penyulap 06:00, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
(inserted text) Biased? everyone is biased in some way, how do you mean ? which way ? I'm not saying the washington post or Patricia is particularly great, I'm just saying what craft is she referring to back in 67 and 68. I'm thinking there is a craft back then which uses an APAS docking system.
Where I think were on different pages is that you only want to recognize some of the APAS mechs as APAS mechs. APAS is like saying 'Bisexual' so 'Chris-75' and 'kim-89' are both bisexual, but they are not the only ones. There were bisexuals back in 67 and 68, 'Vlad' and 'boris' if you like. You can't just say there aren't 200 APAS because you can only find Chris and Kim, or only Chris and Kim are bi. Penyulap talk
I think you mean you have no idea what I'm talking about. I know what I'm talking about, I have ready access to the ideas inside my head. It's a matter of explaining them to you, that is all. The APAS don't come in 'male or female' kind of versions do they, so if you have 3 89's they can each dock with each other, yes ? other systems have separate kinds, plug and socket kind of thing where plugs don't fit to plugs they fit only to sockets. like that, yes ? so far so good ? Penyulap talk
There was no APAS in the 60s. It was first used in 74' as a test for the ASTP. APAS is not a general term for a androgynous docking system. There were no androgynous docking mechanisms in the the 60s. There are sub-variations of APAS that are not truly androgynous (Krstall, PMA-2, PMA-3, Tiangong-1 if you consider that to be APAS).--Craigboy (talk) 02:12, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well I don't know enough about their lunar docking mechs, except they weren't probe type. I'd say though, if we go for a consensus between saying that APAS was used just for the NASA shuttle, which isn't true, and how many Androgynous mechs there were, which is hard to cite (there were like 8 Burans built for one that flew, so how many APAS mechs were made for all the different programs and all the different craft is like anyone's guess) and sum up with what is clear we'll have it.
Something like the spaceflight now line "The Shenzhou docking collar is similar to the Russian-designed APAS system, which was used in the joint U.S.-Soviet Apollo-Soyuz Test Project, the assembly of the Russian space station Mir and by space shuttles visiting the International Space Station." is I think a pretty ok summary, although it leaves out Buran. Actually I think that the Nasa shuttle used the exact mech and module that was designed for Buran to dock to Mir wasn't it? But we can just stick to mentioning flown variants of the APAS system, as people like the orbital brightline (Although someone did change the lede of the ISS from an orbital brightline to a habitable brightline, which was cool, and I never argued the point, as it is still true). We can stick it into a note if you like, so it saves space in the article, and in the china section we could just put "similar to APAS" although it IS an Androgynous mech, without a doubt, when you look at APAS being an acronym for a generic description of a mech. But when you name a mech, saying '75 then it is specific to that mech, and then you can't say the chinese use an '89, you CAN say they use an APAS, but it would be a 'Shenzhou APAS' for sure, or whatever their academy is calling it. Penyulap talk
The Kontakt docking system was non-androgynous. I never said the fully androgynous variant of APAS-89/95 was used only for the Shuttle, I listed the Shuttle because it was the most recognizable, since Soyuz only flew with the APAS-89 system once. "The Shenzhou docking collar is similar to the Russian-designed APAS system, which was used in the joint U.S.-Soviet Apollo-Soyuz Test Project". It's much more similar to the APAS-89/95 docking collar.--Craigboy (talk) 08:49, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I think it's kind of more respectful to not to give the impression that (the Nasa shuttle) was the reason it was invented. The above would address that, but it's good to mention both at least, or the three or so you can think of in a note, depending where it is. Penyulap talk
Also, if you notice a distinct bias, what would you say is the direction of the difference between us, because it's good for editors to compliment each other, I like it. I think that many editors are kind of NASA fans, I am too, but also have a wider view, like Japanese and Russian and so forth, I think it helps fill in the gaps in a global picture. Like with the origins section mentioned below. Would you think that is it ? or I'm too into humor, and that it's more a Russian humor than American ? Penyulap talk
Oh, well, I can't see it that way easily though, because by definition everyone IS biased, there is no getting around that. Without biased editors who can communicate and co-operate you get only one narrow point of view. When you combine many biased viewpoints you get a fuller better picture of something. There is a story about a group of 5 blind men and one elephant they come across when they are walking, the first one feels the elephant and says it's like a tree, it's thick and round and solid coming up out of the ground, the next takes a feel and says, no it's like a big fan it's thin and large and moves through the air quickly keeping me cool, the next says no, it's like a snake, it's round and long and flexible and curls back upon itself. The other said it's large like a stone of such a large size, and another said, no it's small like a cord i can hold it in my hand it's hairy at the end. (he had the tail) So who was correct ? who can describe it the best ? which one is the expert ? I will have a look at those refs in a little while and find the (easy) ones you request too. Penyulap talk
You assuming Shenzhou can't be manually docked and a few other things.
It'll never happen, but that's the place [the Chinese] would [dock] if they could, because that's the place all the autodockings are made, and all the docking collars are proper. Anything the Americans are coming up with themselves, well, they'll be the only ones who use it nasa and it's commercial carriers that's all. Everyone else goes Russian. (well jaxa doesn't do dockings as yet).Penyulap 17:22, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
"Everyone else" is only ESA. JAXA has no intentions of docking to the station, if they did than the ISS partners would loose the large hatch diameter that berthing allows. The United States is responsible for transporting JAXA and ESA astronauts to the station since their modules are a portion of the USOS side, currently the United States is paying Russia for their transportation to the ISS. After Commercial Crew comes online, Soyuz will only be transporting Russian astronauts.Craigboy (talk) 18:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
(oops I replied to your quote of yourself) And privateers ! :) (wrong term, but more dramatic, let's take the station lads!) JAXA is so interesting, because where are they going next ? it's the same as the US without all the talking. It seems unfortunate there is no announced successor (correct me if I am wrong) to the Kibo success. Do you think it's because of their alliances ?
Yes, everyone else at this moment in the time continuum is only ESA, because there is no autodock capability on the USOS and no plans whatsoever to make it (correct me if I'm wrong). The only real addition to the autodock family could be China, and the rest of the autodock family is exclusively RS, so why would china not join them ? Penyulap talk
(inserted text) No I'm not, I'm saying the ROS is where the party is at, didn't you see that video I added to the external links, where they make Yuri look like he is dancing at a club somewhere even though he is made of cement, and are all butt slapping and so on ? The Americans can't stand the Chinese, they refuse, by law, to buy them a cheeseburger if they come and visit a NASA site, it's ILLEGAL to buy them a cheeseburger. (I wonder if fried rice is ok?, they might like that, or some Peking duck, yummmm Peking duck) Russia and China are good friends, Phobos, Chinese space program and so on. Where else would they possibly dock ? on the external platform of kibo and then come through the experiment airlock ? :)
Mark my words, if they do dock to the ISS, it'll be to the Russian segment. (marking my own words [X]) Penyulap talk
Ah-HA, so there you are, first and foremost they do the automatic docking then when they have that worked out they run a manual docking to work out procedures and protocols and problems the crew will face. They learn their lessons well those Chinese, by watching. Having both is important for safety, practicing both is important for safety, and they do the auto dock with their Tiangong 1 first, no? I think after like 135 NASA Shuttle flights, with many to the ISS, there was a missed opportunity to develop auto docking technology, and what a shame too. But NASA boys are born and bred cowboys and love it that way, and it's more dramatic... I like their style. Actually I have a cool picture of the ISS seen through their manual dock system to compliment a Soyuz docking view as well, so we can make one of those little side-by-side pics in the article.
So the USOS is for cowboys and robotic arms, and the RS is for deep space prep with robot docking and trying to over-ride HAL 9000, before he crashes the progress into Mir. Sweet. So I still think the Chinese aren't cowboys, do autodocking, and would dock to the RS. Penyulap talk
They probably chose to do the Shenzhou 8 unmanned because they didn't want to risk a crew on their first docking, I have no clue what they plan to do nominally for future missons. The Russians were actually the first to fly the APAS-89/95 system and they did it with a crew on-board opposed to the unmanned Shenzhou 8 mission. Since NASA didn't have unmanned re-supply vehicles why would the Shuttle need to be docked automatically? What article are you talking about? "So I still think the Chinese aren't cowboys, do autodocking, and would dock to the RS." To me it doesn't make sense for them to use a heavily modified Shenzhou for a one-off ASTP type mission.--Craigboy (talk) 08:49, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Future missions will do as the Russians do, autodock with supervision, call that another penyulap assumption, but I won't go putting things like that in any article until someone says it somewhere of course, I don't make stuff up at all, and I keep my penyulap assumptions out of articles. I'm saying they missed the opportunity to develop the system, but of course my voice matters nothing, it's a drop in the ocean of voices that say Nasa missed this opportunity or that opportunity, and that the human race squanders all their opportunities, sigh. But now they have finished with the shuttle and have no autodock developed sort of thing, although they let the commercial people do dragons eye didn't they, so i guess they let other people take the opportunity. Haha, every Shenzhou is heavily modified, it's like no two ever look alike. lolz. Penyulap talk
You assuming that the APAS family is much larger than it is
APAS is the root term for the entire family of Russian docking mechs, and the american and chinese and euro mechs which are all branches from that, afaik.
No. The APAS family consists of APAS-75, 89 and 95. Although typically the term APAS is used to describe APAS-89/95 (APAS-75 is a very different, non-compatible mechanism). Americans used the APAS-95, these mechanisms were purchased from Energiya and integrated into the Shuttle's Orbital Docking System and onto the PMAs by Boeing.
The Russians use the mostly unrelated Probe and Drogue system, the Europeans use the same mechanism to dock their ATV.Craigboy (talk) 18:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
You claiming there is a usable APAS mechanism on ROS, that Shenzhou isn't capable of being docked manually and that docking mechanisms can easily be converted to other types.
And what the americans are doing on their section is irrelevant. the APAS are Russian. not american. They are all over the station not just on the USOS.Penyulap
There is one on ROS. It connects Zarya to Unity, and thus cannot be used for visting vehicles (nor has it ever). The only open APAS docking mechanisms are on PMA-2 and PMA-3, which are part of USOS.Craigboy (talk) 18:21, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
No automated docking is possible at present on the USOS, so any supposed docking to that section will require new hardware to be sent up. Which means you can just as easily send up new hardware, such as slapping a new collar on the node module,Penyulap
You cannot "slap a collar on", a docking adapter would have to be developed. This means it is not compatible with ROS. Craigboy (talk) 20:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
(ins) It can be manually docked, no problem, but I am saying that just like everyone except NASA and JAXA, the chinese use autodocking first and manual as a backup. The ROS is equipped for autodock. USOS isnt'. Penyulap talk
It doesn't matter that the USOS isn't equipped to allow autonomous docking if Shenzhou can be docked manually.--Craigboy (talk) 13:12, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
They do things my way. I told them to. :) They go for contingency, safety. They aren't going to abandon the best ways and risk a botched docking because manual won't work and they realized they left the rendezvous in Beijing, they are going to take every precaution possible. The ESA boys are on the same page too, they came to the RS party and brought a plate with GPS, lazer, and everyone's favorite, Kurs for backup. They didn't leave anything behind thinking it'll be ok, they left nothing to chance and look at them now ! cool. that ATV kicks the ISS butt into high orbit like no other ship can do. Penyulap talk
"just like everyone except NASA and JAXA, the chinese use autodocking first and manual as a backup." Everyone else is just Russia. And I think you're right that it may just be a cultural thing.--Craigboy (talk) 08:49, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
CSME, ESA and RSA use autodock, JAXA and NASA don't. It's easy enough to see, that when the ATV evolves into a manned vehicle, it'll autodock as well. Penyulap talk
You assuming again that Shenzhou isn't capable of being docked manually.
OMG you're a total GENIUS, that whole "the rendezvous and docking project hardware is compatible with the International Space Station." - Jiang Guohua, a professor and chief engineer at the China Astronaut Research and Training Center in Beijing. is brilliant. Stick it in the article man ! I can't steal your thunder there, you've had that since march ? good thing you remember/mention it ! That is brilliant ! Especially since it's the first specific mention of the rendezvous system. Which suggests more than it reveals as to where the docking would occur, yes, because as far as I know, there is no (automatic) rendezvous system whatsoever on the USOS, it's strictly Russian.Penyulap 05:09, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
(ins) no I'm not, I am saying they don't fly by the seat of their pants, they take the russian "Ve have barkups fvor our barkups for our Oxillary redunentsee systems comorade" they demand high standards of safety. Penyulap talk
(You mean manual, yes?) They are not unsafe, unless the crew get sick, or the manual controls are broken, or the crew member isn't well trained, or alert, or any of a hundred other things. Extra options create safety. The Chinese see that, and go for extra options. Besides, it's an obvious technology to develop and exploit. Automated dockings are a big advantage in many situations, so why would they prefer to go manual, there is nothing to learn from it that can be applied beyond that crew-member's missions. Anyhow, I think that's interesting, maybe the different approaches to safety that the different agencies have are a reflection of culture. The Russians seem to change everything that they can think of in response to any accident, and the Chinese seem to learn by watching what others do. I still haven't popped into the ISS article how the Russians have a policy to team up every spaceflight newbie with a spaceflight veteran. It's that way for every ISS flight, but did you know about that ? I think it may be difficult for you to grasp the Chinese / Russian approaches to safety, and it is certainly a little difficult for me to grasp the American approach to safety. So it's good that together we paint the whole picture. By the way, we need to work on getting your 'clone' word in the article somewhere, not where it annoyed the other editor in the china section, but it should be written up, the different opinions, how some say China purchased it, some say they stole it. Penyulap talk
Sweeet ! I'll help you sneak past the other editor that doesn't want it in the China section, we can put it into the docking section, as a better overview of the docking and berthing mech article, and/or a note in the china section. This would be cool, explaining it to everyone. Penyulap talk
You're assuming that the Soyuz and Shenzhou are compatible.
The Chinese and Russian hardware is compatible for docking, making co-operation much easier (US hardware is not compatible, and auto-docking is unknown in US manned craft).
Penyulap (talk) 17:13, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok, when any two spacecraft join together they 'talk' to each other at the very least, like the main computer on the ISS wakes up the Soyuz computers now and then and asks them how are they, how do you feel, are all your systems all right ? and chit-chats about where they are at the moment (lolz, maybe that language is too approachable for you), "The DMSR in the SM periodically interrogates the computers of the docked Soyuz vehicles for system status and uploads new GNC data for use in evacuation scenarios". Anyhow, back on topic, no two craft are quite the same, so the Buran 'pinouts' would have different connections in that APAS allowing the MIR-2 DMS to talk with the Buran DMS. Maybe they are RS-232 or maybe USB ? Like that. Or, to put it another way, just as the computers on board are updated, so too the connections do, and as the missions change so do does the adapter version, for example you said they do not transfer gas/fluid, but obviously if they wanted to add that to a future mission they can use the same APAS and just add the connectors to both sides, and delete the ones that are superseded. So the pinouts and pipes and so forth will change according to the craft and mission. the Soyuz Apollo computers wouldn't have had any connections for the computers would they ? probably not. But the latest ones would. OMG, I just thought of the perfect analogue. Think domestic motor vehicle towing mechanisms. They have the same 50mm spherical steel ball, but different electrical connectors, sometimes in some countries they are flat, sometimes round, but of course, this is all not such a OMG moment if towing is not big where you live. There are countries full of cars where none have towing mechanisms I do recall. Penyulap talk
The electrical connections are all the same, there would be be no reason to have mission specific electrical connections. APAS-89/95 were only used on space stations, there would be no reason to launch a spacecraft that was no compatible with the one on orbit.--Craigboy (talk) 02:12, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No way. '75 '89 and '95 will not have the same electrical connections. cn.! Penyulap talk
New section "Christmas on the International Space Station"
I've created a new section for the article, that appears at Christmas when such material is notable, and not at other times of the year, when people probably won't care. The section without it's heading is at Template:Christmas on the International Space Station and please do add, edit and so forth. Ignore the warnings you will see about references, when it goes into the article they show up normally if they are done in the usual way. Anyhow, it all works although I will no doubt improve it's technical implementation, and might get help from others too. Or just go ahead and delete the lot if you feel the urge to ! whatever. Temporarily there is a way to view it on my talkpage ISS workspace, but I'll copy it out of there soon if it looks like a good idea, to aid in editing. Penyulap 07:39, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
woops, it's gone live sooner than I thought, thanks to technical help, and another take on which days are good, I'd better spruce it up, it was just example stuff really. Any comments on this section? Penyulap 10:56, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah it's great isn't it. If you don't like it, go delete it, I won't stop you. Still, it stayed there with just one concern all Christmas, and I got assistance from other editors with it. So seriously, is it a bad idea, or just an unusual good idea ?
(added) Look at it like this, there was one valid concern, that something that is in the article should be notable all the time, rather than just at a particular period of time. True enough. But there are the exceptions in the article. For example, we don't list all of the craft that have visited the ISS in the article, we only mention them in the lead-up to their most interesting time, and then dump them fast as soon as they leave. So too with the Christmas section, it appears only in the leadup few days, and then disappears fast afterward. Penyulap talk
Going on a tangent about hats
Sorry, I apologize, I missed the word 'hard' on the first read. Didn't mean to twist your words. Anyhow, they're not hard hats that they are actually wearing in that picture. (I mean I can't get over your totally disputing the photographic evidence, I mean, this is not one of my own pictures I made, I'm not THAT good with GIMP, it's from NASA I think, just look it up) anyhow they are not hard hats, they are yellow hats. They can't have got onto the station without being 100% Mission control approved I'm sure. If I can get a ref saying they aren't hard hats, they are just yellow hats, can I have your support for the picture, and should I get a ref saying they wear hats on the ISS, you know, aside from this photo ? Also, I'm pretty darn sure the 'reason' has to be something to do with 'policy' or, to make it easy, any essay more than 3 days old will do too, probably. Wait, is it the caption ? I don't think I said anything about 'hard' hats, I do think I mentioned the commanders mustache though. How about I review the description so it doesn't mention hard in relation to hats. Penyulap 18:37, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Pen, I didn't say it was photoshopped. Re-read my original comment ("Crew members do not wear hard hats on the ISS (except for when they were posing for this picture)"). I don't know what you mean by "yellow hats" (and don't tell me they're hats that are yellow). They're clearly hard hats, and they're most likely wearing them to make it a humorous photo.Craigboy (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
I'm looking at the article right now and I'm seeing 5 hats across 2 photos. (Because the Christmas template is showing). There are plenty more hats here and if it is included that's going to make 10 hats in the article, I'm thinking some different colors would be nice, I mean they are all red hats, with white trim and a bit of green, I'd love a picture with some yellow hats to balance the article a bit. Penyulap 12:18, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Pen you're hard enough to follow as it is so can you please keep the jokes to a minimum.Craigboy (talk) 12:53, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
Well how about start making sense ? I mean what's "Image is inaccurate" or "Crew members do not wear hard hats on the ISS" all about ? oh come on, I am asking serious questions here, and what am I getting in return ? Penyulap 13:06, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
You're getting very obvious answers and responding with things like "It's clearly 3 times better than the replacement, as there is 3 times the work being done" and talking about the balance of different kind of hat pictures in the article.Craigboy (talk) 00:05, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
(inserted text) Ahh my hats my hats, my precious hats. I'm trying to convey the humor they have on the ISS, there is a lot of it. Russians are quite nuts for it. I mean how about this for an official government Mars500 website picture ? There is humor on all sides, but mostly on the American and Russian sides I can find it. We need more JAXA and Canadian humor ! Penyulap talk10:36, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Omg, lol, I thought I did, per the original caption, "the crew are well prepared for all the things that fall on them in Zero gravity" hehe, I'm so sorry there, I thought that was pretty much the thing, it's like I thought for a while there why don't Americans have any humor ? but I see you do. Btw they were sent on the shuttle too. Do you think we should pop a little bit in somewhere, or do you think it's no good ? Penyulap talk
I think there are some really cool things too, some things that seemed 'strange' at the time, but now are like the norm. Do you remember when people used to argue with me about the lede ? and how frustrated I got when they refused under all circumstances to discuss content, preferring to just revert everything ? Actually I think you would remember because you got hit by the shrapnel too, remember ?
From the time when I did my first edit till now, wow, what a difference we have made eh ?
Remember when people used to argue with me over how many space station projects there were ? now look at the Origins section, you can just read it. And even though I wrote it, I don't agree with Columbus being a space station, I wrote it the way I figured people would like it, whereas for the record, Columbus was nothing but an on-paper diplomatic bargaining tool, not a space station project. But it's too 'out there' to explain the difference to people, so I just keep the concepts nice and approachable. The other self criticism of that section is I haven't bothered to include Canada, but who cares ? maybe later on I'll add a good read.
The table of contents is nicer now, logical, and I love the feel of the article, more dramatic. I think we've done a fantastic job, but it's only just begun, there is so very much to do, the article is still a pile of crap. I have the special penyulap ability to just turn up the critique and see all the problems. Pick a section and I'll tell you lots and lots of things that are wrong with it. On the other hand, I can just turn it down too, and the article is lovely, or I can move across time and tell you why it will suck and where and how soon. And stability, I can pick and see where the hits will be, and why they occur, and head them off too. Omg, remember 'assembled' ? It's a dirty dirty word eh ? lolz. Penyulap talk11:26, 23 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. When you recently edited MARS-500, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Hypoxic (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
For your kindness. I'm pretty surprised to be honest. I actually saw a counselor earlier today. So thank you for your help. I was hostile at first and I apologized. I think I have a lot to offer. I know I didn't make the right decisions, but I think now I will do much better. I kinda like poetry. I'm more into full stories though :D. SKeptical of Love (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:32, 26 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
You are most welcome. I see a great deal of promise in you, both in your editing and in your poetry. I can't imagine that you wouldn't be able to impress someone that you like with poetic skills like those. I couldn't find any of it on google, so I suspect that you in fact wrote it yourself, is that correct ?
I'm glad that things are working out. You can turn your 'full stories' into 'essays' here on wikipedia, they are very popular (too popular really, sometimes people try to use them instead of rules (facepalm)). Penyulap talk06:49, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wrote along response at AN/I. I am taking responsibilty for all of my pasta ctions dating back to 2006. I sense you may not be entirely genuine, but your help is greatly appreciated. I see a great promise in myself for making things better. I will not ever leave Wikipedia because I love this site. I will make articles better because I want to atone for my past and make Wikipedia better. SKeptical of Love (talk) 06:58, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well it is good to share (with those editors) the doubts those other editors have, in regards to your future, because they cannot see it clearly. Whereas to you I may express entirely less doubt, as you and I do not have near as much doubt about your own worth and value to the project, you know yourself better than other editors, and I know yourself quite well through my insight. I'm simply seeing everyone's point of view and shining the spotlight on the common ground where we can all stand together. Penyulap talk08:11, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Almost done, its easy parts though, lol (I can't fully understand this image which is my source). That tool which I previously told you is a bit buggy so I'm using this one. Also ROS is in a good shape now (sample). Don't worry if you don't like it's design, that's easy to change (I've created some here). --Z17:06, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh and about User talk:Penyulap/Fleet workspace, that's not possible and also using bot is not a good way for several reasons (many wikis even don't have interwiki bots. Mainly because BRFA process can be a headache) so I think the best way is doing it manually (you can put that table in a template so it would be easier to maintain and update across different wikis). --Z17:40, 17 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's brilliant, I wasn't aware you could add buttons like that, it's an eye-opener. I had previously been thinking of putting each image on a page with a longer description for some items, and navigation textual help, now there is a great deal more real estate to work with, more choices to be made. The largest image, I think we will probably settle on a version of it that when zoomed, comes in close to the station with little blackspace to look through. If it is cropped square, it should probably cut off some of the stations solar panels, they'd run off the end of the picture out of view, as they aren't important. I'd figure the landing from clicking on the zoom tool should be reasonably close to something that can be viewed, maybe even messing up the blackspace with an infobox that goes in that corner, but that's all to worry about later I think.
What I need to do now is find a lot of pictures so we can label. There is a pic of the Soyuz here and I need more pics of everything, similar to that, to find them and list them, so you and everyone else have the resources we will need, even I don't have them just yet.
How do I use a template that contains a table across wikis? which server would it go on, as I think I tried and couldn't work it out, they just go red. Penyulap talk23:47, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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For the time being, if I was to go with the other one, do you know how to redirect the image as I have modified the template to do ? would that cause any trouble for the other stations do you think ? Also, I'm going to need to make other changes to the original, to better suit PALZ9000's abilities. There is a lot more functionality to be included. Whichever. Penyulap talk22:54, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Chinese may intend to have an airlock in the Core Module or on one of the Laboratory modules. In regards to the accuracy of the image hosted on their English page, the Shenzhou spacecraft aren't shown with solar panels, the Luch-like antenna is shown being used as a RMS and the station looks nothing like any of the descriptions or images released these passed few years. Not sure if this was ever even a design because it looks like something a graphical artist tossed together.
What program are you using to to make the image? I recommend using these images as reference. Image 1Image 2Image 3Image 4. Although for some reason in those images no docking mechanisms are depicted, so I recommend using this image as a reference for the docking mechs.--Craigboy (talk) 08:10, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)
"The Chinese may intend to have an airlock in the Core Module or on one of the Laboratory modules." C
Yep, that follows Russian design methods too, "Ve make everything an airlock." P
Actually I just found an image that seems to infer that the airlock is in Laboratory Module I (may not be the official name). C
RMS C
What's that ? P
Robotic Manipulator System C
"In regards to the accuracy of the image hosted on their English page" C
We can say that about any image they post, give me an image and I'll critique it for you, where will that get us, we aren't here on wikipedia to decide what is true or not, we're supposed to document and reference everything (but between you and I, I also prefer accuracy above all else). P
"looks nothing like any of the descriptions or images released these past few years" C
except for the little point that it IS one of the images released these past few years (doh!). Look, it's not there best one I'll give you that much, and you'll have to admit it was a no-brainer place for me to start improving images, I mean how could I fail with all those faults. By the way, do you think I did ok with it, compared to the original ? Oh, what year did the original I used come out ? we should add that to the article. P
It looks like a very old image which would mean it wasn't released within "these past few years". The original seems pretty worthless, this is the only image where I've seen that configuration and it really looks like someone just took a per-existing picture of the ROS and edited (even the perspective looks kind of off). C
Well it's the only one that we have that is remotely photographickey looking, like with other projects, there are lots, so I guess this will be the oldest one that we have to work with. Not that I'm going to say it's the first CSS concept, we can't label it that way, how can we label it ? we can at least say it's an 'early' concept do you think ? or at least this artist thinks so :) I'll make some more to help illustrate the different concepts but I can't be bothered if people are going to cut them out for pedantic reasons. I always have too much work to do as it is. But I do want to illustrate this article, and more. Thing is, where do we get images ? has anyone asked for release onto a free license ? and would we get it ? we've been waiting forever for Russian images. I can't see the Chinese being much different, even ESA and JAXA are a bit sparse on the PD images. No, I'd say if we are going to illustrate the changing designs we will have to do it ourselves. P
Its probably best just to toss it aside because we don't know the origin of the picture but I do know its at least six years old. I've yet to see the design change. C
Well I'll be happy for us to label it as a 2005 artists impression, hows that ? What do you mean you've yet to see the design change ? huh ? P
What are you talking about ? it's on their #$%@ website !!! I'm supporting you chopping out any caption that calls it a design until the end of time, but an illustration it is. It's on their site, to illustrate the CSS. That's where it is, that's what they are using, now, today. *sigh* Call it mid 2000's ? early illustration ? Don't call it a design. agreed. P
I'm using a variety of art software, did you have some data files that may help ? The image I want to make next for the CSS is going to show the modules, and I guess that has the added advantage of having component images for the mod articles themselves. Although the twin science ROS mods have me itching to make an anim of them dumping the last stage of the proton and unfolding their panels, I think that'd be so cool, and a fast explanation to do as an image rather than text. P
That first image you link to is brilliant, I hadn't come across that one, I like it as it is on their site. I don't like the ray tracing stuff, I prefer real textures from real images though, which is what I'll do. Also I might add some nondescript minor furniture, which is always the difference between raytracing and final photos of the real thing. The CCM looks like it has two parts, like a NM is separate from it. P
The image is misleading, the Core Module and it's node are one piece. C
I know, but it just looks that way, which is cool, as it's easy to clone other nodes for the images. P
There are once I chop them off Zvezda :) let hope the crew have their spacesuits handy :) (come to think of it, PALZ9000 should do the honors) P
Not sure if this was ever even a design because it looks like something a graphical artist tossed together. C
All the images you've shown me qualify that way, although they are better quality and a more defined design. It's like the freedom images, they start off with ideas, which change A LOT before launch. Mark my words, they'll change the design A LOT from those pics that you show me. I'll use them if I make another image, that's for sure, and it'll be on the long list of design proposals that changed before launch. same as every other station. P
I should clarify that I think it looks like a graphic artist created it with little input on the actual design because just look at it, some things just don't make sense about the image (like how an antenna is a grabbing a Shenzhou). C
Well not in my image there isn't. I can't actually see what you mean for the original, but I'll take your word for it, I'm not sure where you mean, do you mean Zvezda aft ? P
The antenna on Zvezda aft. C
(for other readers, it's answered in the next part)
Do you have any photographic images of their orbital hardware you can recommend for me to study ? I want to imitate the textures properly, even though I'll be using brushes from other stations, where it's PD. P
I wouldn't spend too much time on the textures of the modules because the exterior of the flight hardware will most likely look a lot different than the renderings. I don't have any flight hardware images besides that of Tiangong 1 and Shenzhou. C
Actually, with the pics you point to, there are so many vast changes they are discussing, that I could reasonably install a space elevator into one of the modules, everyone would yell HA! and point, then 5 mins later CSME would post another pic showing two space elevators. :) It changes that much and that fast. P
All those images are basically the same. Your original image doesn't look like it was ever a design. C
Other people could call that you OR over the current state of the chinese government website, which displays the picture as we speak. Other people could say that, but I won't :) P What I'll ask is two questions, 1) does it look like the picture on the website, except for docked craft, and 2) doesn't that argument apply to the chinese gov website equally as well ? Does it look like the CMSE image was ever a design ? P
To me because the image only seems to be on the English version of their website (where mistakes would be more easily made) it doesn't hold a lot of weight. To me it doesn't look like a design, but if we ever find a document describing what those modules are and why something that looks like an antenna is holding Shenzhou (and with no where to put it) then I think we an call it otherwise.--Craigboy (talk) 12:42, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Omg I see what you are talking about now, that is hilarious too. it does look like a shenzhou is docked into the antenna, that's even better than the shadows from the USOS solar array. LOL. I had thought they had docked it into the side of a converted robot, you know, going the ATV route where old robots are used to build the station up. That is hilarious I must admit. They don't think much of their English version website eh ? It's the same with the Russian website too, you can't work out anything unless you use the native language versions. Penyulap talk12:56, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
re the dm, I don't think I'll get into that much detail, it's just an impression, I don't think anyone will use wikipedia pics to build their own space station :) I was going to pretty much copyclone the Zvezda pics for the NM end of the mod, and the NM article too. I was wanting to ask you first about the NM as I want to get the mechs right, and I figure you can point me to some pics of the mechs they will use on the NM, or just to match them up by telling me which places on which mods have the same ones. It'd help that little extra with the accuracy. I think you're the undisputed (well, sometimes disputed :) sorry) expert on docking mechs. P
Sweet ! that one is set up for manual docking, do you have some without the target in the middle ? is it the same kind that is on Zarya ? are there pics of that one ? Penyulap talk11:13, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sadly I do not. If you ever manage to get a hold of an image of the in orbit mechanism on Tiangong-1 then that should be what you're looking for (so far I've only seen footage of the Shenzhou 8 mechanism). I'm not sure of what kind of APAS-95 variation that Zarya uses so I can't say.--Craigboy (talk) 11:27, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's ok, I mean pics of the NM dm's, or rather, the same variants that will be used, they don't need to be orbital for me to use, as I often have to redraw from PD textures just the same. Penyulap talk11:38, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Most of them if not all will be the same as picture linked above but the docking target may be different (which isn't part of the docking mechanism).--Craigboy (talk) 11:45, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually having a closer look at that one, they won't look much like it at all, are there any connections at all between the shuttle and the station through that thing ? what are the black circles, are they push-apart arms ? The NM is going to have a lot more in the way of connections going on that is for sure, but that picture will do for sure just the same. Penyulap talk14:34, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well thank you for considering, although there are many aspects that have nothing to do with spaceflight, except that they are to do with spaceflight :) like the 'propaganda' angle as they call it in the west, or patriotism as it's described domestically. It has little to do with technical aspects, it's more politics, and there is the art and media coverage and so on. Anyhow, I do look forward to crossing paths with you again. Penyulap talk09:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Penyulap, when proposing a merger you should follow this guideline. It tells you all the steps for proposing a merger and making sure it gets listed. I know it can be complicated to propose one of these (I have done a few myself), but it is the best way to do it.--NavyBlue8412:46, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't at that stage as yet, more enquiring about the subject really, if they are the same thing or not. No point proposing a merger when I'm not certain, that's what I figure, so I thought to ask first off, I figure you or Craigboy would have a second and third opinion (I can get intelligent disagreement out of both of you without it being a heated debate) :) Penyulap talk13:03, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Understandable, but opening a merger could bring in lots of people with an opinion on the subject, and not just the regular Spaceflight project folks. It never hurts to open something like that, esp. when looking for comments and opinions.--NavyBlue8421:05, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that was a mistake and that's why I've often said I'm not much of an article writer as I make too many silly mistakes like that. To have a reasonable chance of not making mistakes like that I'd probably have to read over something at least a couple of times several hours apart and wikipedia, by it's nature, makes that difficult. Dpmuk (talk) 05:18, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Never let bad grammar and spelling stop you writing an article ! The copyeditors guild loves to fix things. I think they have a portrait of me up on their wall with the caption "Our reason for existence" :) Penyulap talk05:21, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well I am starting to write a few more things now so maybe I'll join you on that wall. They're normally short stubs so as avoid copyvio deletions but still it's a start. Dpmuk (talk) 05:23, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, the docs for that suck. to avoid copyvio, just read the webpage, and then goto the edit window and write a book report in your own words, without looking at the webpage. Then add the reference for it. Penyulap talk05:28, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Think you got the wrong end of the stick - I regularly work at WP:CP and so reasonably often rewrite articles to avoid copyvios introduced by someone else rather than pressing the delete button. Dpmuk (talk) 05:32, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty much. When an article has been created that is pretty much all copyvio it's listed it WP:CP and the subject seems notable we'll often rewrite as a stub rather then delete the article. The important bit there is "rewrite" rather than shorten. Just shorting would still leave a copyvio! Given the constant backlog at WP:CP I rarely have time to write a whole new article but feel it's worthwhile to write enough of a stub from the copyvio version to hopefully give someone else a starting point. Dpmuk (talk) 05:46, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds like pretty useful and probably thankless work. It would make things a bit easier when there is the links all there, but if it was not a subject of interest, then it would be hard I would think. At least for me. Penyulap talk05:54, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will happily admit I don't enjoy that bit much. The bit I do find rewarding and sometimes enjoyable is investigating a complex case only to find we don't have a problem, for example when they copied from us. I enjoy the challenge of proving this and it's also nice to have worked out that we can keep an article. Unfortunately taking the rough with the smooth comes with the "job". Dpmuk (talk) 06:01, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ha! How about when they learn from us ? I have terrible grammar and punctuation, and so it disturbs me a bit when schools use my text to teach English !! I saw the text I wrote for the first part of Chinese space station used to teach Japanese students English. That was like wow, but also, omg I better go check the article, or someone should, and not me. It was here, but now it's gone, and not in the internet archive of it either. Penyulap talk06:27, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We(myself and the primary programmer Z) were doing a bit of a test run and are just at the stage today to do a BRFA. I was fixing up the shutoff buttons on a few servers for it, and putting up his Userpages and redirects for his talkpages first off, then Z will help out filling in the RFBA. Yes, he should label that a lot better, but I think it only needs one per server done once, and then updated every other time, so do you figure it's worth it, or if you prefer I can manually do it myself in his account if it's an issue ? Penyulap talk08:31, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
and I'm sure that you meant well in this edit, but unless you had this particular editor's permission, there was no need to correct their spelling in a talkpage post. If you did have permission, then that's all cool. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 13:46, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Shearonink for the query. I too dislike people changing my work, although I do appreciate copyediting in good faith. Actually I don't just appreciate copyediting of my text, I also have a friend who copyedits my code without asking and I think that is brilliant !!! I mean wow !! who gets that sort of help on wiki ? The above edit you refer to looks like a worry because I slipped the cursor over two words rather than just the one which needed it. I'm not sure what was going on with the second word, but luckily it wasn't the first time I did it, the first time I did it changed the meaning of the text substantially and so I told the author at the same time I did it on his talkpage here. He responded on my talkpage in a section above this one, so all is well. Thank you for checking, I wish I had a stalker who watched the naughty people who outright delete my words, I don't know how many times I have had to warn them about that sort of thing. There is a spot in this discussion (look for my 3rd signature) where I go and alter someones userpage. They were accused of poetry at ANI. So I changed it so people could see what it was. I must admit I do make some big changes without permission, but so far the recipients have been cool with it, and it's fun too! Penyulap talk20:54, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I just wanted to tell you about the fact that there is a project under way to build a sort of Commons but instead of pictures it would be for data which could be used in a similar way that pictures are now. From what I understand tables will be one of the first things that can be uploaded. link:). Thanks for the note BTW --U5K0'sTalkMake WikiLove not WikiWar10:04, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
He won't be happy if he finds us talking about this, people trying to unplug him already (I don't think he can lipread). Don't tell him I think that it's an awesome project and is set to (hopefully) carry out some of his tasks. Though, he will still have a good deal of use, things that can't be handled any other way, and hopefully not vandalism patrol (maybe, but VP is a bore!). I think though, I have to work with the resources available, that and time-frames may mean it's faster to simply D.I.Y. (D.I.O.).
It seems the category does exist. I don't spend much time on my user page. I would rather invest it in other areas of WP, but others can see that I am a tradesman now.--Canoe1967 (talk) 05:09, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
your objections in the Rfc on Mohamed Images is not valid... you keep asking for clarification between calligraphy and figurative images---figurative images is used in the RfC to describe images of a person depicting Mohamed. So you are asking for what is already there.---BalloonmanPoppa Balloon20:05, 25 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My objection is the difference is not sufficiently clear for many of the editors. It needs more approachable language. 'Figurative' is an ambiguous term for too many people and needs to be substituted. Using phases such as 'images of Mohamed, rather than images of his name' or 'images of people rather than images of text' would help the situation. Penyulap ☏02:08, 26 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Penyulap/Archives. A reply to your request at the Illustration workshop has been made. If you are satisfied, please copy/paste the following code and add it to your request: {{resolved|1=~~~~}} You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{GL Illustration reply}} template.
Ok Penyulap, thanks for the reply. Well I tried to design the Infobox on the Talk page of Wikiproject Space flight but it does'nt appear. A set of things that I suggest are already as a table in Article:Poisk(ISS Module). But I found that there are Infoboxes for a few Mir Modules like Kvant-1,etc. But these infoboxes are not there for Kvant-2. Zvedza ISS Module has an Infobox for a space station.
Orbital tug means not only the name. It means size, weight, Deorbit Date and other things. So with a module which has a Orbital tug it should be like this(eg : Poisk)
Orbital tug= Progress M-MIM2(Progress M-SO2
Orbital tug weight=7,102 kg(I don't know if it is Orbital tug+Poisk)
Orbital tug type=Progress M modified
Orbital tug decay date= 8 dec 2009
I just got angry after no reply for three days so that is why I just Blurted out the situation .But again thanks for the reply.
--Monareal (talk) 10:19, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh that is no problem at all. Lately I talk to myself even on pages that sort of should be busy, like the ISS talkpage, but then when other editors have time they will have a comment here and there. It's all good.
Orbital tug is a very good essential idea that we need. Each of the Chinese and Russian modules falls into one of two main classes, but I think readers don't grasp it from the way the pages are written. It needs improvement !
In regards to the downlink, I know nothing at all about it, I think it's some kind of newsletter, I have never had a copy, or wanted one. You'll need to ask someone else. Penyulap ☏10:30, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I stopped that downlink Succsessor. Ok But mir modules?They are in a mess.I left a Question about it on a thing called Teahouse in Wikipedia.This teahouse is for asking questions about Wikipedia. Here is the answer I got:
I think the simple answer to your question is there are different ways of presenting the same information and the various editors who have compiled these articles about Mir and its modules have gone about it in different ways. One of the ones without an infobox, for example Kvant-2, may look better with an infobox or it may not. The only way to find out is to try, if you don't like the result you can undo your edit. If you like the result leave it, the worst that can happen is that somebody else doesn't like it and undoes what you did. If that happens, don't get upset or angry but ask them why they think the other way is better and see if you can find common ground between you.NtheP (talk) 07:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC)You see Kelphin and I never thought that![reply]
Ok, another user left a comment saying there was a infobox for it in wikiproject spaceflight under the section . But I did'nt like it . Moreover , It is not used for ISS modules. I gave him a message. I think WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT MIR MODULES FIRST. You too can be a guest at teahouse. Mir modules should be also thought about. Making infoboxes in the belief that the mir module infoboxes are to be ignored is not a good idea. Somebody may delete our infoboxes telling the Mir module infoboxes are there. Thinking about the other space module infobox is also another Compolsory thing. I will give you the comment he made there:
There's one already: Template:Space station module.User: SalopianJames 20:35, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
Sent the reply to my talk page--Monareal (talk) 11:16, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
--Monareal (talk) 11:26, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Reply to me before 13:09 UTC--Monareal (talk) 11:45, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Ok then 23:59 UTC is enough.Now here the time is 18:08 --Monareal (talk) 12:38, 30 March 2012 (UTC)Indian Standard Time you know running 05:30 hours more than GMT.--Monareal (talk) 12:44, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Penyulap look at this my conversation between SapianJames and me:
'''''''I like a new one. Morover it is not Used in ISS Modules.--Monareal (talk) 05:23, 30 March 2012 (UTC)Don't make a new one, improve the current one! If it's not used where it should be, insert it! There's no need for pointless duplication... SalopianJames (talk) 07:37, 30 March 2012 (UTC)'''
!--Monareal (talk) 13:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Saturday 30 March(MNB): It has been Double Chaos for User:Monareal as his attempt to secure a Infobox for ISS Modules is at a dead move. He was given a reply by an user(User:SalopianJames) that there was an infobox and instead of making duplicacates , modifi=y the existing. All his plans are foiled. Monareal News Board News--Monareal (talk) 15:54, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Seri,Eni Mir Osman Ali Khanugute Chaganam.Ayyo Parayan maranopoyi! Etum MANGLISHA!O seri! Se! Chatta Pattikal Kollan ene varomo
--Monareal (talk) 11:28, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Penyulap/Archives/2012. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there! Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by WormTT· (talk) 12:59, 30 March 2012 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template).[reply]
Monareal News service info: Ok I agree not to duplicate but I will have to fully reorganise it.That means I should completly format and add our suggestions. I don't know if James would like it.
just copy the old template to this page and make all the changes you like, and then in the next day or two I'll also have a look, add some things, and we can put it in, ok ? This will keep everyone happy and get the template fixed up too. Penyulap ☏04:25, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Monareal News service info: Ok THE CHANGES ARE THAT, I WILL COMPELTLY DELETE THE ENTIRE INFO IN IT NOW AND THEN WRITE MY INFO INSIDE IT.
Thanks for helping me with the infoboxes. But I did not understand what you did in the workspace where I put my idea.It looks confusing. Monareal (talk) 09:39, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am working on a new picture, I did some of the work needed, there is a list of new things on the template, the list of suggestions you made for new things, I have formatted the first few things of that list into the template language, if you have time, you can format the rest of the list, just follow what I did in my last edit to the page, repeat the same as my last edit where i converted two items, changing two into template text, removing them from the list of your 'homework' and adding them to the completed list. Penyulap ☏10:01, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've invited James to see it. I may be a bit inactive after 11'O' Clock utc as one of my relaitives is coming from hyderabad.--Monareal (talk) 10:26, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think the workspace talkpage is a good place to communicate other than our talk pages. We can talk there.I think we may finish our work by day after tommorow. And we can show it to wikiproject spaceflight on 3rd April.Phew! I feel tired by sitting for 5 hours in front of wikipedia.--Monareal (talk) 10:32, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Awesome. It's important to take a rest, and no problem, as we all have things to do in real life as well. I look forward to doing more work with you. Penyulap ☏10:35, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Tommorow I'd be spending the entire evening with the relative who will come from Hyderabad.I won't be active during te morning. By the way, if you have free time, can you do the remaining work? I'd sometimes only be active at night.If you finish the work tommorow,send a message to me saying it is done. Then I could know it is done. If it is incomplete,send a message to me saying it is not complete.If it is completed by tommorow,we can show it to Wikiproject Spaceflight on the 2nd of April--Monareal (talk) 11:52, 31 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! Penyulap,
thanks for visiting the Teahouse! As an experienced editor, your knowledge is very valuable to new editors. Teahouse Hosts help new editors at the Teahouse and beyond. If you'd like to get involved in assisting new editors at the Teahouse, please learn more hereSarah (talk) 17:36, 1 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Penyulap did you forget about the template?I too say time is running out. The last date is 6 April(I made it the last date.)--Monareal (talk) 04:08, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
no, no, I didn't forget, I abandoned the project in favor of writing them manually, as in, no template. It's a great deal better. At the moment I had been researching collapse boxes. You can continue with the template modification idea, but I think it's easier to write it anew, but without the template. Penyulap ☏04:12, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Huh?Writing manually? No templates?Did not understand what ya said.Were you writing automatically?Plan:Do the stuff and show it to me by tommorow?--Monareal (talk) 04:55, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ARGH! don't sneak up on me like that !-pen (inserted text)Too much spiky to sneak.--Monareal
mmm snacktime
Oh now you're talking
That's it, I won't be back until June.
To make a subpage search for User:Monareal/name of the new subpage and then follow the instructions. All this talk about my Chinese has made me hungry. Penyulap ☏06:12, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have sent you a personal e-mail expalining why I revoked your changes - the e-mail contains information that I would prefer not to make public. Martinvl (talk) 07:12, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for letting me know, I don't check my email often enough. I have checked and understand your message, and will do as you request and not make it public.
On a completely different topic, I have reverted your revert, supporting the IP editor, I see nothing on the article talkpage or edit summary which convinces me the IP editor is incorrect. Please be so kind as to explain on the article talkpage why you consider the IP edits to be harmful to the article. Penyulap ☏08:07, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Penyulap,
Thank you for your response. I have now given the reason for my reversion which I trust you will find acceptable. BTW, this IP editor concerned had been changing junction numbers on a number of similar articles and I was going from article to article just tidying up the mess that he had left, hence my lack of Talk pages. Martinvl (talk) 08:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As a footnote, the article would be much improved with an explanation of the numbering system, in regards to the gaps for example. You'll find the article resists unhelpful improvement that way, because it explains the topic better. Penyulap ☏09:28, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article in question was the result of a clumsy splitting of the original A1 article. I have now added an overview section which puts the numbering into context. Martinvl (talk) 09:51, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Cool, I also see you expanded on your talkpage comment to the IP editor, that is excellent. Editors need to know what it is you are doing, especially when you're reverting or changing their work. Explaining to me, or ANI is nowhere near as good as writing it on the article talkpage and the editors talkpage, I know it seems strange because I am saying something so obvious, but seriously it is THE thing that should be done. It saves ten times as much hassle later down the line. Also, looking for reasons as to why editors make specific edits is really cool, because they will help you to improve the article, like in explaining the numbering. Just asking them why, fishing I guess, as not everyone answers, would also be the really fast-track way to a better article. Penyulap ☏10:00, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Can I tell you one thing?I just don't know what the hell have you done in the workspace. It looks mad. Reply on my talk page.--Monareal (talk) 08:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict times 2)
It';s easy to keep track here, if that is ok. There is the list of things you wanted to add, and to change it into template language it needs some things changed, little marks added to each one. So I had started off doing that with the list, and then the last edit or so shows just what I was doing to each item on the list. So you do the same thing to each item on the list, until the end of the list, ok ? Penyulap ☏09:01, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am in a ditch. Well, Barbosa ate the Barbarians who were about 1209 tons.1209 of them. These were on the menu
Canpagne BreadaSteake MossouSteak Au PoivreLa Eteat gras en cocotte le duck de jus
Never eat es cago!Never!Why?I recieved a warning with a picture let me see the picture.
Oh my god!Is'nt that made of snails!Monareal Cartoon Dhamaka!--Monareal (talk) 09:08, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what the hell is this template language. Think I need Help from WD Graham. He's much experienced wikipedian. He has been on wikipedia for seven years.--Monareal (talk) 09:25, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Did'nt Understand the thing but made a plan:You format it into template language. I'll make an microsoft Excel file which'll contain info about the modules. If you finish it tell a message.I'll send a message when I finsh my work. If you want, call other Wikiproject Spaceflight members to cooperate. Hurry, the last date is 6th April--Monareal (talk) 07:41, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
here is an idea, just write the article in this space, delete whatever is there and I'll help format things as it goes along, cool ? also you won't need any templates for that kind of an article, I'll explain by showing you as it goes along, cool ? Penyulap ☏07:45, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't make teacher spank you. I'm old and have a creaky back. Now have another look, and see I wrote a half-article there. Does it look interesting to you ? Penyulap ☏
this article, but what was the name of it that you wanted it to be when you asked in where was it village pump ? Penyulap ☏
I did half of that. The rest I'll do it later. Anyway ,do this for the Space Station Module Infobox:You format it into template language. I'll make an microsoft Excel file which'll contain info about the modules. If you finish it tell a message.I'll send a message when I finsh my work. If you want, call other Wikiproject Spaceflight members to cooperate. Hurry, the last date is 6th April--Monareal (talk) 10:25, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've reverted a couple of edits to User talk:Penyulap/M3 Project workspace because they broke the ISS talk page. I would recommend that you create a new workspace, as that page is transcluded into a couple of old discussions, and re-purposing it will cause problems there. --W.D.Graham11:45, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh thanks WD, I forgot all about that robot demo. I'll fix it quick smart. I wonder where else the mess is. Penyulap ☏
It was a massacre. The new article for the india launchers replaced data which was held in the same place for PALZ9000 demonstration. Palz was approved as a robot, but I forgot to disconnect a small part of one of the examples on one of the talkpages, so it was causing problems, but I don't know what they looked like, I didn't see. I expect a few lines of red text with an error message. You can revert the India launchers draft article if you like now it's all fixed. Penyulap ☏
What are you saying?And what happened to the M3 Project Workspace? Show me the page where you found the error message and everything else. What a terrible bloodbath!--Monareal (talk) 06:18, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's will take me 5 minutes to show you, it's not important, nothing to see here move along. I just fixed the M3 Project workspace for you. Nothing to see move along please. Penyulap ☏
Hey, thanks for your message. What I was referencing (with canvassing) was a practice that happens on Featured Picture Candidates (FPC) from time to time, where someone will nominate an image and then post somewhere else for all their friends to go support it. What this results in is a whole bunch of people supporting the picture, not because they reviewed it and found it to meet all the criteria, but because they have a vested non-neutral interest in promoting it. It's kind of like if you were electing a town mayor, and the next town over decided to all come vote for the guy nobody in your town liked, but because there were more people in the next town, they railroaded him on you anyways. For some reason, canvassing seems to be more common for picture candidates from certain geographical areas, the Middle East being one of those. So any time we see a whole bunch of new voters coming in to vote on only one image (one that usually does not meet all the criteria), it raises red flags. The reason for my comment about canvassing was that we had an influx of new voters on this picture. New voters aren't bad (I was a new voter once, too), but when they come, vote to promote one picture, and then leave, they're not being helpful.
On another note, I'd encourage you to stick around FPC. You bring a slightly different perspective, and once you brush up on the criteria and get an idea of what the quality level we're looking for is, I think you could make some valuable contributions. We haven't had any new regular voters in a while.
I'll give it some thought. I actually mentioned the FPC on the relevant talkpages of the articles, plus the wikiprojects responsible for them, in response to one editor asking repeatedly 'has this been advertised somewhere'. Often a question is posed that way, for example at ANI, when a procedural step has been omitted. Hence the 'advertising'. I had thought your comment was referring to vote stacking, or selective canvassing where you ask a few friends to vote a particular way.
The category sort of thing doesn't seem immediately explained by the criteria page, that leaves a gap in my understanding. I would expect intuitively it's simply a matter of the image being specific to a topic. would that be about right ? Penyulap ☏
I expect parts of it would, small details are hard to see sometimes. I have technical difficulty extracting frames from oggs at the moment, but no trouble extracting from mp4's. Did you do the rendering and so forth ? That is impressive work. Penyulap ☏
Thank you. I built the whole thing from scratch in Second Life using open source vehicle scripts. I just rode it around and filmed myself. I was thinking of including a wikilink to the video inside the userbox. They can play the tiny version, or link to the full size.--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:53, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What did you film it in ? if you can film yourself riding back(omg what am I saying) If you can jump in your santa sleigh(have to stop laughing as i type) if you film yourself in mp4 going flat across the userbox I can put that into a userbox, like this
You can ride through your userbox over and over again until Christmas, with the countdown in the background, I can do that easy. Like "Santa doesn't stop for another 177 days" and then on Christmas he can stop, or stop and go in loops or whatever. Penyulap ☏
Very easy to do, there are a LOT of audio 'tracks' :) on commons. Penyulap ☏
Actually, I remember that song being public domain, but USA only possibly. I will upload it to wikipedia, and after I find the status I can move it to commons.--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:45, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In "Smoking Iron on Cold Steel.avi" the train doesn't pass through the camera view side on, so it's cool for me to pick out another shot ? or are you thinking to do another ? It will probably be fine, but I'll zoom in somewhat as there are just 50 pixels in a userbox to work with vertically. Penyulap ☏
You need to change the license to SA3 so it can be used. copyright is the wrong kind of license. SA3 is what you are describing.
(removed video, it doesn't seem to work properly, I will process the youtube version as an example)
don't worry if it takes a long time to load, it is doing that because wikipedia is sending the entire footage to your browser for compression there. Later it will be compressed before being sent.
as you can see when it's compressed it's hard to see. I can choose scenes and zoom in on the train, so that you can see parts of it clearly, I can just use my own intuition at first if you like, it might be easiest that way. cool ? Penyulap ☏
No I am using the youtube video. be aware that you won't like the result. but I'll tell you what to do to make a new one. Penyulap ☏
I hope to refilm the whole thing anyway. I have made reins since to link all the deer and sleigh, plus I need to get a 3D mouse to film smoother and use full screen. I controlled the camera on screen that is why it is only 708 high. I cropped out the mouse interface. You can see my earlier progressions on the same youtube channel--Canoe1967 (talk) 03:59, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Give me 3 mins, I just got back from lunch, I am uploading now. Penyulap ☏
Here is about the first half of it, as I had loaded up the project on a smaller machine. But you can get the idea of shots that are good, and shots that are too fine in their detail.
yes of course, although, about the video, do you want the start cut off, cut short, or to do another video optimised for the box now you can see what parts look best ? give it some thought, actually I'm sure you will, take your time ! Penyulap ☏
I trust your artistic tastes. The beginning b/w credits don't need to be there. A few 'frame groups' from the best sections that work in low rez is a good plan?--Canoe1967 (talk) 05:14, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Always a good plan, I always optimize. The little train at the beginning of the section is 50 KB. You're one won't be like that however, it's 3 MB at the moment. I'll do it in a little while, you should consider in the next few days if you want to make another one that is pre-optimized with conversion to UBX in mind. Let me know about that in a day or so. Penyulap ☏
This user made a CGI video of a train using Machinima.
Here is the 2MB version, the reason it is still so large is the high framerate, and the nature of the shots, where the background moves. If the background (and camera) was still in each shot as the train moved, it'd be much smaller. also, the framerate could be reduced, I'm not sure how fast (smooth) you'd like it, it's at 100ms per frame in this version.
I think there are too many wheels running over the camera in this version, it makes no real difference to the size of the file though. The long trip across the bridge sucks a lot of bytes, it could be say 2x faster ? or shorter ? Penyulap ☏12:12, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Would it look too choppy if you just used the sections in close detail? You may have to fade frames then. Another plan would be to just use the best section and only a few seconds? I put the link to the full size video in the gif page if they want to see more. Less frames and normal speed may be best for the userbox, and we could even put a link to the main video in the user box?
I had intended to link to the full video before, but forgot to, I just fixed it as you can see. The shorter the sections of video that you post to me the better as a rule. Penyulap ☏19:13, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I guess there is no problem with that idea, what train did you have in mind ? can you show me a picture of it ? Penyulap ☏
We may have a bad plan here. My sys seems to slow and howl every time I load a page with the userbox that plays the full video url in thumb size. Am I imagining this?--Canoe1967 (talk) 08:40, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
can you tell me how to emulate the problem ? Penyulap ☏
Find a 7 year old computer that has never had the dust cleaned from the fans like mine? It gives me an excuse to buy a smoke filled one. Computers run on smoke. When all the smoke comes out of all the holes, you need a new one.--Canoe1967 (talk) 09:00, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know if I have any other kind of computer. But do as I do and use the vacuum cleaner to suck up all the dust, and if you want to go overboard use a dry paintbrush as well. But you do not need to clean all, or completely. just stick the vacuum onto the CPU fan and it'll actually do a good job of cleaning it in about 2 seconds, and that's all, it's better than it was and will take another year to gather enough to worry about. Also, if you are using windows, dump that crap. It has so got to die. Go Ubuntu, if you're not sure, go ubuntu Live CD. It is easier to install the entire ubuntu operating system than it is to install any windows program whatsoever, I kid you not, it has become that good. No viruses EVER, no spy/mal/crap ware ever again. Penyulap ☏
Isn't there issues with vacuum cleaners generating static? I have thought about ubuntu. With the live cd, do I just set to boot from cd, and will it run all my windows programs?--Canoe1967 (talk) 16:47, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
there is nothing to worry about with static, it's overhyped. If you don't manage to zap yourself touching door handles in the house then everything is fine. If you think of the computer as the person you want to zap, and first touch the case as you go to work on it that is good, you'll zap the case which is a harmless act and then can work on it's insides. You can't zap the person twice without another walk across the floor. same with the vaccuum cleaner. You have no chance of wrecking the computer by static.
There are almost no programs that are tied to windows now the way that Wii games are tied to Wii. everything that you can think of that you want to do can be done on ubuntu, but faster cheaper and the software actually works. Most office style programs have the proper opensource equivalent which reads and write to files of any format so you can write a ms word doc for the boss with open software.
to boot the live cd, the computer has to be able to boot from a cd first, so just try it and see, if it doesn't go first time you press F2 or F12, or do as i do and press all the F keys like a piano until it says going to settings, then look for boot options and tell it to look for the cd first before the hard drive, and then you're good to go.
things that are good about taking the time to run a live cd is that you never go back and you get your whole life back by no longer having any kind of virus malware spyware or crashing ever again. there are no viruses ever on ubuntu. Penyulap ☏17:06, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was thinking of the static built up while the vacuum is running, caused by the friction of two insulators (dust and plastic hose). I have seen industrial vacuum system sparks jump over an inch every few seconds when running. Would I need to get ubuntu versions of all my XP programs then? Some I paid for and all my install CDs disappeared one cleanup day. Would I have to boot with windows to run those or buy new ones? My computer has a 'press any key to boot from CD' on a timer now, and I know how to access the BIOS to change boot order etc.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:54, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
nothing to worry about there, there is no real potential available or a way to collect it. If you actually get static in your house and get zapped when touching doors, you can wait until a rainy day, let the moist air go through the house with an open door and it will kill all the static, make it next to impossible to make the rub feet on carpet thing work. The sparks within the motor don't matter at all. Static can have a high electron potential, but the motor sparks are too confined and low potential by comparison. They are really different in their nature. GO THE VACUUM CLEANER, trust me, the danger is only from hitting the computer components, changing their seatings and connections like the cards and so forth. just be gentle and all will be well.
you can get opensource programs to replace all your windows software right now actually, that run on windows or run on ubuntu. You don't buy anything anymore there is no need at all. a good idea, if you really want to spend money, if you can afford it is a new hard drive, it costs the same as any windows program, but would give you a great deal more storage. you can use ebay to find a local to you seller where someone will sell you a new one from their house for next to nothing, new straight from asia. 1 or 2 thousand gigabytes for about $100 or 60 euro i think it is.
you can check out most of the programs and so forth on the live cd, you can actually install programs into the memory when you run the livecd as ubuntu doesn't usually need to be restarted when you install a program. Penyulap ☏18:26, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
just have a google for ubuntu windows equivalent programs or something and include the name of the program, you probably won't need to get into the big guns problem solving at all, it's quite easy with a fast google. Penyulap ☏18:30, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Penyulap, thanks for letting me know about the new template and bot. I've already applied them to the Genesis I and II articles, in an interesting way (epoch date in the citation, which I think works tremendously well, save for the date formatting). I noticed, though, that the bot hasn't updated statistics for those articles in a couple of days...problem? — Huntster (t@c)05:35, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Hunster, I apologise I overlooked your comment on my chaotic talkpage, it is great news for me to see that the work is of use, the bot is acting normally and will soon have status information on his userpage and elsewhere to show what he is up to. I have since added access dates to the bot's features for that exact reason. I think we have simultaneously invented the idea of the epoch for access dates. Have a look over the template for the new options. Penyulap ☏16:08, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know I feel like an idiot twice over now, as I had asked you to respond here so I didn't forget, and you have kindly done so... and I still overlooked it. Penyulap ☏16:11, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(Wiki has eaten by reply twice now, so I'm a bit irritated...) Great to see that added feature, however I don't know that access_date, access3 or access4 serve any real function, since the first is unformatted and includes exact time, and the other two include the day of the week, none of which is desirable in a citation (or anywhere else I can think of). In any case, I'll be thinking about what other articles might want to use this function...if many more are added, might have to think about moving all data to individual subpages to keep the template from getting out of hand in size. — Huntster (t@c)21:27, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh man I have a big open mouth grin, I was laughing when I looked over your last contribs and noticed you had reverted the date reformatting that NavyBlue had done. While some would say 3 and 4 are for different article formats, let's say instead they were only put there to facilitate edit warring over date formatting, omg, PALZ is one of a new series of mech trollers designed for the specific purpose of destroying the 'wik.
More seriously, there are some massively cool things to be done with the extra data-fields. I knew when I saw the TLE parsed through that we could draw ground-track maps in the articles with the ISS shown in it's current position, I figured I could do that with a selection of maps I can make, the time choosing the proper one for the ground-track, and the TLE data used for computing the absolute position of the ISS icon overlaid on the ground track image. Simple and cool. But Z said today that he can make these maps (the bottom one is the one that I could do with my skills, although come to think of it, the other two aren't so hard either) anyhow Z says the bot can do most of that kind of thing and upload images to commons.
It's all a bit more interesting than my original idea I mentioned here(the links are out of date) like more than 6 months ago, from an older still idea. Still, work on that is going ahead, not far too fast, but it's moving. The console would give you an idea of where it is up to, as the links all work. Basically any editor, regardless of their native language could write the dates of the next rockets to the ISS onto the table, and PALZ propagates the data across all the participating servers. But it's like the second Death star at the moment, big with lots of work done, but far from operational. (except for the orbital data laser blaster thing). Penyulap ☏
I think I'll add a crucifix to this one soon either way, as it leaves such a large hole without it
Thank you for the image. If you have any other images, particularly images which might say "Christian" in some way without indicating any particular branch of Christianity, like maybe her with halo and wings, or maybe with specific individual denominational indicators, like maybe dressed as a Catholic or Orthodox nun, any such images as those would be welcome as well. I'm hoping to have some sort of "vote" next month for the Wikipe-tan to be used by the parent Christianity project, but that vote would largely be for the purposes of getting people actually involved in the project more than anything else. I very much imagine multiple images of various sorts, for all the multiple kinds of Christianity, would not only be welcome but probably rather significantly used. Thanks again. John Carter (talk) 22:37, 6 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi John, it's not a matter of 'have' it's a matter of 'make'. I have just completed one more which is probably sufficient, although, if there is popular demand I can look at making some more for the project. Penyulap ☏
Understood, and my apologies for the misstatement earlier. Thanks for all your work so far - it is very much appreciated, believe me. John Carter (talk) 21:05, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I just discovered that I'm a WikiPrincess and I would love to give my opinion on your edits if you are still considered a WikiDragon. I'm friendly and just want to contribute my opinion on wikipedia. :) Thepoodlechef (talk) 04:21, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You sound like you want to help on the 'wik. Helping is a good endeavor. You can ask at the help desk where to find Wikidragons. Good luck in your 'quest' Penyulap ☏06:25, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Your Highness of the the throne of Faulkland Kingdom, King of Britain, Crown Prince to the Sultan of Turkey, King Of New Spain, Emperor of the third french Empire, President of the Salute Republic of Kazakhistan, , President of the Republic of Uzbekistan ,Gen of Uzbekh National Army, Dr Sir Penyulap VIII George VII Al Baz I Santos Manros Marinos IV Napoleon IV Hased John Lord Alfech, Wellington I ask your Honour that you shall complete all the infobox work by tommorow,Sir.--Monareal (talk) 15:20, 7 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, when you put it that way, I should have another look at it, but I don't think it will get too far. Where did we put it btw ? Penyulap ☏
This user no longer requires hardware to login to the WikiMatrix.(can be customized)
I just made another userbox, I had no idea about this until an hour before it was finished. What do you think ? To add the userbox to your userpage, you cut and paste this text to your userpage
Yes indeed, that was put there originally because the programmer was quite obsessed that the edit summary should say precisely which stations were being updated, I had caused that trouble in the first place by trying to make the previous summary as interesting as possible.
I was concerned that I was causing useless busywork, diverting his incredible assistance from more important matters. I have updated the edit summary, how does it look now? historyPenyulap ☏
Penyulap, would it be possible for the bot to add a comma between day and year to the access1 and access4 parameters for proper MDY formatting? — Huntster (t@c)21:14, 10 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I found the nice tool I would have like to use for it, it's called category tree, but alas I don't think it can be used for a template, so I figure it's back to the drawing board. Possibly just the rather more popular 'show' can be used. Penyulap ☏
Monareal News service info: A 8.6 earthquake strikes Banda Aceh, Indonesia. 28 countries have been given tsunami warning. By now, the tsunami warning has been reduced to an alert. An 6.5 magnitude aftershock is felt in southeast India and Banda Aceh. On 4:16 IST another aftershock happened in India. I did not feel any of the tremors, including the main one. It is reported to have been felt in India.
It's definitely not a good thing, there are Firefox browser add-ons which can alert you, by shaking the browser window, to earthquakes in far off places. For earthquakes in places close to you, the whole monitor shakes, and it's no add-on. Penyulap ☏
there has been some minor damage, but a lot more panic than usual, because people have learnt their lesson for a while at least after the last one. My friend in Jakarta says she didn't feel anything, but that is a fair distance away from Aceh. Penyulap ☏
What lesson? You should know how people survived there. That time(2004) I was just smaller than a poonch. Anyway we are in Thiruvananthapuram, IND which is about 1900km away from the main epicentre. The tsunami warning has been extended for 2-3 hours. It is almost 6 here. We are about 6 km from the coast. Electric power is lost in Banda Aceh--Monareal (talk) 12:28, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
power is always lost in aceh, and anywhere outside of the major cities. Penyulap ☏
You did'nt respond to this: That time(2004) 'I was just smaller than a poonch. Anyway we are in Thiruvananthapuram, IND which is about 1900km away from the main epicentre. The tsunami warning has been extended for 2-3 hours. It is almost 6 here. We are about 6 km from the coast.' Anyway, eyewitnesses in Aceh Province quote that waves have gone about 10 metres from the coast. Our Chief Minister Oommen Chandy says there is no need for people to worry but he and a few other district collectors have required people to stay in office for 24 hours. Currently, the tsunami alert is 99.9% lifted. --Monareal (talk) 12:45, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
well I think that you don't need to worry about the quake or a Tsunami. Penyulap ☏
The People of the Indian Coast (I had not) , Coastal People's Republic of China, Malayasia, Singapore had felt Earthquakes already in (about) 2 o clock IST and 4:16 o Clock IST. Anyway no tsunami waves reached Aceh or anywhere else in Sumatra or Indonesia and its neighbours--Monareal (talk) 12:55, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It depends a lot on the quake itself, what kind of quake it is and where it is, not so much on the distance to the epicenter. The Mexico quake for example, that is going to wipe out like no quake ever has, but there is not much that can do to fix it. Penyulap ☏
…you're one of the most stubborn people here on wiki (welcome to the club, /o\ :) and i actually enjoyed ← great monstruosity reading some of your *humorous* comments at WT:WPWPA. I thought of paying you in cupcakes but then your talkpage would have been littered ^^ so here's a nutty laughpoint. Strive!benzband (talk) 18:23, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, and do please feel free to trash my page, please be a slave to your whims with no regard for order. Penyulap ☏
(grumble) there are no cupcakes on the pew page. (hmph) Penyulap ☏
Aha, that's because all they all ended up dying of indigestion ~ so the admins decided to stop the slaughter by banning their use and introducing barnstars instead. :/ benzband (talk) 19:01, 11 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well I think for future reference they haven't made specific rulings in regards to bento, but then again we don't have much bento on wiki, but we have some lovely sushi. I'm not into raw food so much, but I can always cook what I'm given, just to be a culinary heretic. Penyulap ☏
Because people keep giving you indigestible cookies and the likes :P and we can't have our fellow 'pedians starving. Let me share this with you… OOPS, DINNERTIME, gotta GO! (i've got some little red gnomes on the fire) benzband (talk) 15:03, 12 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can't even remember what work it was. Penyulap ☏
Just ******************** and finish the infobox. And finish that by 17 April 2012. I dont know what to do with that. That is why I ask you to finish it--Monareal (talk) 11:27, 13 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In honor of Fahd of Saudi Arabia ,President Anwar El Sadat and Mir Mahboob Ali khan of Hyderabad State
You have been presented the 1st Arabian Special Award for April 14 2012 for your respectable, notable and needed work in wikipedia in the Imaginary Venue of Cairo International Stadium, Cairo. Monareal (talk) 11:31, 14 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
well, I think you could make POISK-300 a bit funnier really, as he hasn't done much. You are rather funny, so I see no reason why you can't improve him. Penyulap ☏
Your signature seems to be lackingtimestamps. This creates a problem because archive bots look for timestamps in signatures to know when a thread should be archived as well as just helping readers when viewing a discussion in general. Please make the appropriate fixes. Thank you. Killiondude (talk) 05:04, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, no problem. I usually just left it off in cases where a response would immediately follow, to make things neat, but this is the first complaint, I shall fix the problem by adding more timestamps from now on, where abouts is the problem page, if you'd like me to add timestamps in retrospect. Penyulap ☏11:20, 16 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Squire, Squire, you named them all, as I recall, specifications, designations. I think you're able, to make a table, so if you remember them, as you enter them, I'll give it some swish, just as you wish. Penyulap ☏
Ok Mir Osman Ali Khan, but you Oh Asaf Jah VII, the Nizam who lost his throne towards the Indian Union shall be understood that the workspace data can be SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT from the DRA I drafted away the PT , AB and MNO. If you did'nt understand the data I put in a box on that page, Ok?--Al Sheik!Woiu!I do not fish! (talk) 05:30, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not all comments added to a discussion need an added indent -- users actually only add one indent to the comment they're replying to. See Wikipedia:Indent. I'm mentioning this because of these: [4][5]. Don't edit other people's comments, including the way they've chosen to indent them. There's usually a reason they chose their particular indents, and even if it seems they made a mistake, it's not a good idea to try and correct them as you see fit. Just leave them alone. Thanks. Equazcion(talk) 08:02, 24 Apr 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap, I see that you have not reacted to ANY of only MY messages to you. Please reply to this
Now visitUser:Mir Almaat 1 S1/spacestationworkspace. —Preceding undated comment added 12:00, 24 April 2012 (UTC).
I was distracted. The infobox looks great, fantastic work ! These ones
Egress hatch diameter 1 m
Mass of delivered cargoes up to 1000 kg
Depressurization alarms 0
False Depressurization Alarms 1
accidents
Pre-Docking Period (section)
could all be dumped, and you could consider including mission, like "docking module" "laboratory" some modules have both, so there'd also be "main engines" "bridge" "cargo bay" "fuel storage", things like that for other modules. It looks quite flexible which is great as well, so it can adapt to the other modules as well. It's good work. Penyulap ☏12:45, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. That is only a sample infobox(See Template:Infobox). We have to edit James' infobox and make it like this (as he told to do so). I don't know how to do that so after the repairs, the job is yours. I'll try to find a new image at NASA TV image gallery.--RDF EnergiaASHTS) From UTC 05:30, 05:07, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've added main engines and a few other things I thought would be useful. I did not remove accidents and depressurization alarms although I removed a couple of things. I did not add bridge, laboratory, cargo bay and fuel storage as none of those is mentioned in the Poisk article. I've darkened the background of headers as they look too light.--RDF Energia(talk:Nordak Island Communication Station)05:31, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what I mean about engines, I mean different modules have different missions, for this one, it would be like this:
Station International Space Station
Mission EVA airlock, laboratory, docking port
Nation Russia
Organization Roskosmos
Contractor RSC Energia
By all means include what you like, I just foresee that it would be a target of criticism as it is a parameter that does not vary a great deal from one module to the next, so it's not the kind of thing to have in the infobox, same with accidents as there have been no accidents on any module. Penyulap ☏07:28, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly I shall not cry, for it is a blaze of glory across the heavens, heroes from times ancient to times present have wished for such an end. It is a grand machine, with nothing more to want. Reliable, frequent, a marvel of engineering second to none, the best in it's class with no peer. Penyulap ☏06:26, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Graveyard at Pacafic Ocean
I've wanted to dive into that spacecraft graveyard to see and excavate from Progress-1-Progress M13M
Any look at this User:Mir Almaat 1 S1/Infobox Workspace 2—Preceding undated comment added 06:41, 27 April 2012 (UTC).
We've tons of Work to complete. Mir Almaat has set up a deadline of 1 January 2013. That's definetly a lot of time,but i'll be semi-active from 26 may. What is the temperature in your place?Anyway do your edits and put on the workspace and I'll take a look at it do comment on it. You are free to do anything on me, including editing my userpage.RDF Energia| ☏10:42, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have climate control, yes, there is plenty of time, some of it is not too hard, usually the first infobox is the hardest. Penyulap ☏10:56, 27 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you ! Palz ? he's a bit like that half built death star at the moment, that second one that orbits that moon with the ewoks that live in the trees. I like the walkers, they were cool. some functions are working, and parts of it are built, but it's not finished just yet. Editors, regardless of what language they read and write, could edit the launch table to put the latest fleet movements on it, change dates and so forth, and then Palz would translate and assemble the launch tables, lists and so on, across all the participating wikipedias. The PALZ console should probably be part of his userpage I guess.
It would allow someone in Beijing who saw a news release about a delay or something regarding the date of the rocket launch to update a lot of pages in a lot of languages by just editing one page, even if he or she only reads and write in Chinese, they could update all the other articles because PALZ would translate everything into the local language.
So German editors can edit the English wikipedia, and Japanese editors can edit the Spanish article. That's the mission, however of course there are few if any editors that use wikipedia outside maybe a dozen or two languages, and certainly not the 77 that the article is in. Most of those pages are too basic to have a table really, but meh, it's a logical dynamic to work on. Penyulap ☏10:50, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am simply beside myself on trying to understand what it is that you are trying to express with your concerns about the Dragon spacecraft. If you are trying to propose a reorganization of the article, would you at least say that in your comments? Short pithy answers which are personal insults don't work very well and tend to make consensus in developing an article impossible.
If you have a legitimate concern with this article, I want to know what you are looking to see changed. The way you raised the question on the talk page made it sound like you were making a question more appropriate for the reference desk rather than something constructive in building an article. I still don't completely understand what you are confused about, or if you really are trying to find some information. Please explain clearly, in English (or in your native language if you can't write in English very well) just what you are looking for. --Robert Horning (talk) 21:19, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize for the confusion caused by the short answer, which I have changed. Also, as you have brought up the subject of civility, it's rather insulting to yell at someone NOTAFORUM when they are using the talkpage correctly, making a simple observation of a shortcoming of that article, in the correct place, in the correct form.
Also you appear rather dismissive of what I'm confident many editors would find valid, that is, if you are talking about a spacecraft or rocket, it's important to mention where it is. where the launchpad is, where the spacecraft is. The article has none of that, it could be in Turkey or Guam for all the reader knows.
I've adjusted the remarks on the talkpage to clarify them, and expanded upon the explanation, also replied to someone else as well, should be good to go now. Penyulap ☏23:02, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for at least changing this from what appeared to be just a general query for information to a criticism of the organization of the article. I admit that trying to find the information for where the launch of this vehicle is typically taking place takes a careful reading of the article and a couple of different clicks before you get to LC-40 in Florida. At least that is something which can be addressed or at least discussed on the talk page. --Robert Horning (talk) 00:20, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Few other spacecraft pages link back to their launch sites. The current standard is spacecraft/payloads link to their launcher, and then the launchers link to their launch sites. Sometimes, particular missions get their own page, in which case the mission page links up the launcher, launch site, and spacecraft/payload. If you'd like to see this changed, perhaps bring the issue up in Wikipedia:WikiProject Spaceflight so we can change this across all spacecraft or lists of launches. --IanOsgood (talk) 01:26, 29 April 2012 (UTC) (P.S. I didn't appreciate your argumentative tone in this discussion. You came across as rather juvenile and hotheaded.)[reply]
IanOsgood, I didn't appreciate being yelled at in capital letters that it's NOTAFORUM after I simply asked 'where', which is a fair, relevant, question that has been addressed now by an independent editor. As you can see above your text, the editor and I have discussed and settled the issue already. (although the capital letters remain, which is fine, as I have said my piece, and I personally retracted anything that editor was unhappy with)
If I ask what place or where the lauchpad is, that is not an argument, that is an appropriate question for the talkpage. Would you like to elaborate on any comments that you did not like in particular, I'd be happy to rephrase for you. Penyulap ☏04:57, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Saying "This is so cool," and "I love it," when you actually mean to criticize something for being the opposite = sarcasm. Unless you actually do love the way this feature is implemented and think it's cool; but then, I doubt you'd see a reason to go "complain to your congressman" about it -- which is again sarcastic, unless you're actually considering that, in which case we have a different problem.
Be more choosey about the volume of sarcasm you dump into a post. People will appreciate and be more likely to offer constructive feedback on your posts if they don't see you being so incredibly flip and obnoxious about your (apparently serious) concerns. Equazcion(talk) 01:19, 29 Apr 2012 (UTC)
I was of at least 3 minds about that one really. A consensus between my different points of view, like 'it's a problem and needs improvement' and 'Actually this is a completely fair indication of what a newbie should expect from wikipedia' and 'well it's not like anyone cares, it's dgaf's all around' and then feeding them into the equation and it spat out pretty much about the right volume. However, as usual I epically fail in being anything but a goofball even when I have something important like this to say. I figure it is the place to say it as good as anywhere for two good reasons, one, it doesn't indicate where it comes from, and also important, is the second reason, that the query is a cautionary tale for most of us who participate and help at the pump, to see that we need to place tags and links into new things that we do, so that when problems arise, we will know about them, rather than have the corporate sarcasm 'your call is important to us'. Because really, looking at the screenshot, sarcasm is exactly the message that the feedback box is giving, we want your feedback, please file it in device /null. Thank you for your co-operation. Am I wrong here ? Penyulap ☏04:09, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you in that website feedback systems are generally not inviting, and ours isn't any better.
I also agree that a link to Wikipedia:New editor feedback could probably be placed there, so that experienced editors will know where that feature's details are.
Your presentation of these opinions was, nevertheless, something far off from "goofball". It was simply sarcastic. You said you love it, when you hate it; it's cool, when you obviously think it's not; that you might complain to your congressman, when you obviously won't.
What's wrong with simply saying what you mean? How bout "I hate this. It is not cool. It seems to be saying that our users' opinions are not important to us."
That's not to say a little sarcasm doesn't have its place. But, a little. In this case it enveloped your entire post. I understand having an emotional urge to present this as sarcasm, because you think it sucks; but this isn't a radio show. Show a bit of restraint. It will only benefit you. Equazcion(talk) 04:24, 29 Apr 2012 (UTC)
I DO NOT hate it. please allow me the dignity of being the final arbiter on what I think and feel. I do not hate it. It is a good reflection of the current state of affairs of wikipedia. That said, I have no hesitation to assist the editors who want to fix this problem. I'm not the kind of person who will stand silent when your fly is open or something is stuck in your teeth, I'll quietly let you know to save embarassment. Something is wrong, I think it's a fair reflection of community standards, but that does not mean I will be a juvenile little prick and not tell anyone, if you drop money from your pocket and I don't particularly like you, I'll still mention it to you. Just because I debate and don't agree with someone doesn't mean I'll be petty.
re congressman, I don't have one and won't write a letter, that's a conversational quote phrase sort of thing, like in Age of Empires where it's like "Talk to your ISP sir" that kind of thing. So no I won't be writing a letter, and if I say I died laughing, there is no need to call the ambulance (well, not for that reason by itself)
Anyhow, I'll be clearer to say that I do like something and elaborate on why I do like it, so it's not taken as sarcasm. I'll have you liking it before I'm done too, if I elaborate too much :) Penyulap ☏04:40, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of sarcasm. However I'll just point out that not once did I say you should be silent. I said your presentation could use work. Good luck. Equazcion(talk) 04:42, 29 Apr 2012 (UTC)
Monareal News Service Info:Progress M-14M was buried at 13:26 IST yesterday, at the Mongerier Spacecraft Cemetery in the Pacafic and prayers were held at the Fernando Catherdral on the atlantic ocean where SuitSat-1.
And what about the infobox?Mir Almaat Ali Almaat ☏ 04:55, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
I have been working on the ISS infobox, perhaps it will give you some ideas on what we can do for the modules, but I haven't put it in yet. Penyulap ☏04:59, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
looks ok, i think mission should have something more, like MIR laboratory, observatory, because it's a bit obvious already it's part of MIR, so may as well say something else about the mission rather than simply re-iterate. Penyulap ☏05:16, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My idea is to carry on the chat that is above, without violating this, I have no interest in dating through the internet. (sorry everyone) <sound of 100 hearts breaking> Penyulap ☏05:42, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We are speaking about work things!Not social networking!Well, I have 66616526152661625 tons to do on wikipedia and I thing you'll do the work at Novogrod Almaat Workspace.Mir Almaat Ali Almaat ☏05:46, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a bit busy at the moment, but looking at the image, I see that you don't have a clear direction for the work, it's good to have in mind what it is that you want to communicate to the viewer first, then thinking of all the ways of conveying that message, and then seeing what is easy / what you can do, and go from there. A bit busy at the moment. Penyulap ☏12:39, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
trring!!!,Penyulap! I've almost spent $135,000 for about 12,986 telephones and 3 calls. Uhhh!What is about the infobox!?Mir Almaat Ali Almaat ☏ From Trivandrum, Kerala, India(UTC+5:30) 04:58, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to butt in, but could you find a less annoying way of trying to get Penyulap's attention? Like actually asking him a question, instead of posting walls of icons and images? Thanks. Equazcion(talk)05:03, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
very well said, I do not mind to chatter with people about wiki stuff on wiki, or not wiki stuff off wiki. actual questions would be fantastic. otherwise I would be tempted to point out that I like to screen out genuine people by engaging them in fast-moving conversation, like on IRC, which I didn't get back into until Z asked me, and it is cool. It is good to verify an 'accent' (like in speech), when it is hard to see in text, and text has a visible accent, but it is more pronounced when it is typed quickly.
for the record, Equazcion is welcome to vandalize, order, clear, or edit all my pages and alternate accounts as he sees fit with/without my knowledge or permission. Penyulap ☏06:04, 3 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have no idea what is a good source actually, I often just add three or four where a source is needed and leave it to an expert to sort if out, or just write in a manner that defines the issue with such clarity and accuracy that people are left wondering if I was there or not, see any large unref'd part of the ISS article to know what I mean. lol, but I think there is a noticeboard that you can ask at. Penyulap ☏04:09, 5 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Occupy Wall Street". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 12 May 2012.
Hi, I didn't want to write until the dust had settled a little. When I said thanks for the advice on my talk page I did not know that you had also written to ANI. So now here from me are the many many more thanks I owe you! Best regards, Eddaido (talk) 12:41, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"But meh, I can probably get over it by disliking you lot. :)" That made me laugh outloud. Not something that happens much when working on an encyclopedia. You seem so reasonable as an editor. Dang...what happened in your Wiki training...didn't you get the memo on fighting collaboration? ;)(I kid the Penyulap)--Amadscientist (talk) 23:09, 6 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Amadscientist. I try to focus on the obvious fact that editors on the wik are often trying to improve the same article, I mean, if we are trying to push an old cart up the hill like an article to FA status and beyond, it can't help if everyone is pushing a different direction, people fighting is pretty hilarious when you think about it. What part of the same side aren't we all on ?
I'm glad you enjoy my refreshing approach to dispute resolution :) Naturally it's all a diabolical plot based on the fact that people can't laugh and frown at the same time. Destroying another editors foul mood is the first step in destroying the dispute, MWwwahhaHAhHAhHAHHahhahHAhHAHAaaa. ((cough), um yes, that's it, just a psychological strategy based upon statistically proven anthropological theory (cough)) Penyulap ☏02:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Occupy Wall Street, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Occupy Wall Street, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.
As mediation proceedings begin, be aware that formal mediation can only be successful if every participant approaches discussion in a professional and civil way, and is completely prepared to compromise. Please contact the Committee if anything is unclear.
Thank you for your kindness and the barnstar too, it's given me tears of joy to know I have brightened up your day considering your circumstances. Penyulap ☏03:10, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
ha! talk links have interesting names like, 'what did I do now?' yours might suggest an exception, like when you are being human :) Penyulap ☏03:39, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Or when I'm watching my San Francisco Giants get lit up by the Dodgers (like right now). On a serious note, I'm showing the Pesky Express to my friend Antiquary, who's been having a hard time lately, so I think you can chalk up another smile.
Regarding my intentions, which are always the best, I got your first message right after I clicked save on Pesky's talk page, so the above barnstar should be filed in the well-earned category. INeverCry04:09, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. If you like I can personalise one for you. Chat with Pesky to see if you can ride horseback alongside her little express and jump onto the engine and divert it to someone else's page after re-labeling. I shall help, as it is a good cause. Penyulap ☏04:14, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'd love to be a part of one of your's and Pesky's works. The rider idea is very creative,(no surprise), but I'm afraid it wouldn't fit me so well. My disability makes it hard to eat alot of the time (especially not anything that could go by the description of "tasty"), so those beautiful dishes would be such a tease... Maybe you could do something small just for my user page? In the end, talking with you is nice enough though. INeverCry04:36, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is a coincidence, as I have suffered from an extended period of being unable to eat properly or without pain, it was a very long time, and shaded my whole life. I have almost healed completely from the surgery they did under general anaesthetic which was weird. But now, it's weird because I don't feel all that different being able to eat a wider range of (but nowhere near all) foods, it didn't change my life as much as I thought it would.
I need some ideas to work with, so if you can describe what you would like, that will be so cool, or the kind of award. I sort of sit and stare at a blank screen otherwise. If all else fails though, a gallery to animation is easy as. Also I have a few extra trains, see the second alternative here, I have lots of fast little trains like that that run through, they haven't been uploaded onto wikipedia yet, so you can choose from a whole trainset there. Or go for a different visual effect and direction altogether, something hmm, I'm not sure what direction. Also I can mix and mod images too, like thisPenyulap ☏04:55, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I understand all to well what you've gone through, especially the "extended period" and "shaded" details. I'm visiting a new doctor tomorrow, so we'll see how that goes. As for ideas:
Anything I could put under or right where the big INeverCry banner is at the top of my user page. I don't know that I merit any serious awards, and I'm not grumpy all that often... I love books above all, and like anything from 1850 or earlier that's humble looking and not showy or guilded (furniture, buildings, dress, etc); secular things btw, as I lean toward Buddhism. I've found a few pics, though nothing that moves, as I'm mostly occupied with writers and books images, so I'm not nearly as advanced as you are. 90 percent of what I've done on wikipedia is related to writers...
Books
Bibliophile
A vehicle more to my taste
I hope that helps a bit. If not, go with whatever you think of- I don't forsee being disappointed with anything you do, unless there were monkeys in it (I have a phobia for primates). ;) Anyways, I'm headed off to bed so I'll see you in the morning. INeverCry06:13, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There are two ideas that I am working on at the moment that are related in some ways, so I might hijack some of that material (I have to write it first) for this. So you'd want help to pimp up your userpage mostly, right ? Penyulap ☏09:21, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was just thinking of a few other things. I was picturing an animation with a person seated at a computer. On the screen is WP:MOS (or some other boring wp thing), like the person seated is reading or viewing that. The person looks at it for a few seconds and then their head starts to droop and they finally fall asleep with their head on the keyboard. The person would keep waking up and trying to read it but keep falling asleep.
Another was a reader seated reading, maybe for a talk page. The reader looks up after a few seconds, puts their index finger to their mouth and says shhhhh! to the viewer (us).
Also I noticed your stop signs tag at wp:barnstars talk. Maybe this could be made for a talk page topper saying something like "if you have something nice to say click here" (with a green light- this would be on top) and below this something for those who have nasty things to say with a click here that redirects them to wp:civility or something like that.
I need to start learning how to do some of these things. I only use Gimp to upload fair use writer pics or fix up pd ones. BTW, those folks over at wp:barnstars seem a bit stiff and stern for a free spirit like yourself.
Another quick ?? Have you seen or heard of anything resembling a feminism barnstar or a women's history barnstar? I wanted to give one of these a ways back but had to settle on a special barnstar.
Have a great weekend! PS- the doctor gave me a me a new medication that is helping already so more smiles may follow. (I see how this last bit sounds- but it's not something that makes me high - it's just an anti-spasmodic that makes me more comfortable.) INeverCry23:57, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry about 'how it sounds' that's something I won't misunderstand. I've actually done a little work of a different nature but won't mention as it might spoil the surprise, but on the other hand it might totally suck :) who knows, just have to wait and see on that one.
picking out barnstars by text is not something that I do really well at all, but if you have a look in the visual gallery and choose anything I can make one for you, and label it as you want, but asking at the talkpage mentioned is the way to go finding a particular existing one.
The ideas you mention are quite cool, and I shall work on some of them according to how much work is needed for each one, some will take longer than others. Penyulap ☏01:56, 12 May 2012 (UTC) 01:56, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It won't suck, I'm sure. I'll have to give some thought to the barnstars. Another idea I had comes from an old photo they used to have in B&W magazine of a silhouetted woman with a cute pony-tail ice skating around a small out-door rink. I though it might be cool to have a small animation with a little ice skater in a 3d perspective going in circles, doing laps around a little sign, etc. I just wish I had the ability to transfer this to reality from out of my head as you do. Life is too short to learn all the things I want to know...
Anyways, I have 3 user pages that I use: here, commons, and ru.wiki, so I've got plenty of room for your creations. Not that I want you to do a bunch specifically for me, but I would love to be one of the ones who gets to see the works you do and give them display space. INeverCry02:32, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Monareal News Service Info: Progress M-14M was buried at 13:26 IST yesterday, at the Mongerier Spacecraft Cemetery in the Pacific and prayers were held at the Fernando Cathedral on the Atlantic Ocean where SuitSat-1 rests.
Thank you INeverCry, now it is ready for MiszaBot to archive :) Feel free to do as you please to my work or pages too. Penyulap ☏21:28, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I get the fonts I use here from Microsoft Works Word Processor on the drop down list. I think all these fonts are supported on wiki. As you can see I use
AR Cena,
AR Blanca, and
Mistral, all of which come from MS Works. This means 100+ fonts, but let me know if you find others. INeverCry00:53, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is a list here where 3 of them show up different, how many show up different on your system ? Equazicon directed me to Font family (HTML) (actually I'm flipping back and forth and realise that you know that, sorry :)
There is a for sure room for improvement and it makes me wonder which fonts work for which systems, I think making a good table would be cool, so it's easier to see what works and what doesn't for your own system, and somewhere to let editors tally which systems certain fonts will work on.
there is also room for us to put it on a wp page which is blank at the moment, so development can take place and we can link it into everything later on. Wikipedia:Font list is at the moment I write this, a redlink :) Penyulap ☏09:33, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I expected it to be the polar opposite of "sucks", and I wasn't disappointed! I had another idea for an animation:
A big tree. At the bottom of the tree is a hole. A little Alice comes walking into the picture and stops aside the hole. A little rabbit pokes out of the whole. They look at each other and the rabbit beckons to her. The rabbit disappears back down the hole, then Alice jumps or dives in.
I don't know if that's makeable, but I enjoyed picturing it in my head and writing it down...
As for Moore and the Others, I may be headed for a big expansion of one of those Others's articles, namely Mrs. Gaskell.
Thanks and more thanks for the present, and have a great weekend! (or atleast a decent one, which is what I'm trying for). INeverCry19:09, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Generally where a character needs to act out a scene it's laborious, but I have workarounds for that in the works. Mentioning the ideas is always a great idea, it helps me a great deal to find my direction. For example, wikipe-tan in an Alice context, and so on.
Actually I kind of think it would be cool to organise a letter requesting a release for copyright so that the sculptures in the park can be included on the project. Those sculptures are inspiring, I see where he is going on every single one of them, right down to which one it was that offended the politicians who had it moved on, because they didn't like looking in the mirror when they went past. The stocks for memory was the only one I didn't understand. I hope your weekend is great. Penyulap ☏19:32, 12 May 2012 (UTC) 19:32, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like the stocks are connected with sadism in the group. In the 17th/early 18th century and before, the stocks were one of the most dreaded if not thee most dreaded forms of punishment, because people in stocks were often brutally attacked by the crowd with rocks and many other things, even to the point of maiming and death. So maybe a sadism/punishment/judging theme?
As for contacting Mikhail Shemyakin, I could ask my Russian friends. From what I've seen and read, he's a favorite of Putin's (I've seen a bronze of Putin done by Shemyakin), very rich, and a bit exclusive. His works sell for millions. We'll see. Its Art of the highest order, so the images were sorely missed, as I said on the tp. BTW, I liked the Byron letter with poetry. INeverCry20:23, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh ok, it's a typo, I did not think of that :)
That being the case, he'll have someone handling the press I expect, so going through them would be even easier, that is their job and they want to be good at their job.
Ooooops! I was thinking of a completely different guy! The above stuff crossed out describes Zurab Tsereteli not Shemyakin. Sorry. I watched a documentary about Russian art several months ago and now got the 2 mixed up. I think Shemyakin may be altogether harder to find or contact. BTW, I think those stocks for memory are meant to indicate all the cruelty and sadism of the past so that it wont be repeated etc. Did you see the barnstar on your commons tp? INeverCry06:18, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sweet, I think it is the first time ever it has been awarded ! I should work on translations for it, but it's not on my list of things to do however I would be happy to do it if asked. So if anyone does a list, I'll create the versions of the image required. Just a simple list and it wouldn't need to be labelled with which language is which, as it's irrelevant to the task. Penyulap ☏06:36, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I know it's the first time it's been awarded on ru.wiki. My Russian friend speaks good English, so no worries on the translation front. Besides, an award looks like an award even if you cant read it. Atleast you know it's not a complaint. INeverCry07:43, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, I forgot I did give it to auntie Pesky ! (embarrassed). Ha! awards that look like complaints and complaints that look like awards, I guess the grumpy editor award fits that category perfectly both ways ! Penyulap ☏07:56, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I found a horse :) and added it to the Pesky express. I had not found a suitable horse and buggy combination, what do you think ? Penyulap ☏08:38, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmmmm. There are several issues with that horse and rider. That's a jockey riding a thoroughbred race horse, so it really doesn't fit. For train-chasing you probably want to go with a good stock horse ridden by a cowboy with a cowboy hat on. Also, you might want to slow the horse down before it runs into the back of the much slower train. ;)
PS. I'm still having physical issues, as the meds given to me aren't working as well as I had hoped. This may slow down my response time to messages. INeverCry18:44, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but the horse has to go fast to keep up, because once offscreen when the jockey turns the horse around, there is quite a scramble and scuffing of hoofs as the horse slides to a complete stop and then turns around, so by the time they are back in frame they're bolting to make up for lost time. Whereas the train by contrast corners like it was on rails.
I could change the jockey colors and give him a hat and so on, though changing to a different kind of horse is not so easy right now, as I prefer to use shortcuts to the same end when they could exist in the time continuum, and that one has some shortcuts, although they don't present at present. :) (where are stresses in the English language when you need them?)
Make my day a little more gothic? LOL! I used to be very active as an artist. These last few months I have been a bit ill (no need for any sympathy it's hereditary...I blame the parents. Bwahahaha.), I can't sit very long or stand very long sometimes, (or walk or lay down. It's Gout) and it makes it impossible (for obvious reasons) to drive or run sewing machines (foot peddle is impossible to control. I make different stuff) but since i haven't used a brush and canvas in years. I started a painting...of a Victorian Gothic Castle. LOL! I can stand or sit as needed a lot longer then just sitting and my foot isn't required to do anything. It's a very "halloween" looking image. Here is the subject. Preston Castle, in California. Thanks for the Donut of Doom! LOL!--Amadscientist (talk) 16:24, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I laughed at the award. Love it. Only question: Is it the Donut or Doughnut of doom? Mmmm, juicy doughnuts, ahhh. Bgwhite (talk) 18:06, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is already explained on the other donut of doom award :) there are two kinds, the award/complaint one, and the wikilove one.
Ah, I understand it completely. You give the "Donut" of Doom as an award of a complaint or a complaint of an award to a Brit who is so lazy that they can't type two extra letters. Makes perfect sense. I'll conduct the human trials on my wife. Hopefully the results are fatal with my joy and happiness completely restored. It would be interesting to trials with Pesky's snake. Do you have more info on the 2012 Humor eradication drive? Bgwhite (talk) 20:26, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, due to it's cabal nature, you are welcome to liaise through me, is there a page you have in mind ? There is only a small mention of it on the talkpage of WP:STAR hinting at membership.
The talkpage for the DoD is getting off to a nice start, I suggest what is required at this point is for someone to put up a ENG:VAR template, that could only be a good idea I'm sure. Penyulap ☏20:32, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I had commented out this part on the talkpage until it archived
Please don't copy anything from Deviant Art to Wikipedia or Wikimedia Commons that is copyright of the artist that created it. Always ask permission with use of all works on the site. These are FULLY protected works generally and not Creative Commons. Violation of copyright on wikipedia could get you blocked from editing. Be very careful with Deviant Art works and always check the copyright status of each work.--Amadscientist (talk) 03:22, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Who said anything about copying or uploading? I was just showing him the site so that he could go look at some artwork and maybe get some inspiration. INeverCry04:35, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Officer? LOL! No...try someone that doesn't want you giving the wrong impression to an editor about image use...and a Deviant Artist. I actually stopped by to tell Penylup something but decided it wasn't important after I made that reply or post. I am sure you respect the copyright of other artists.--Amadscientist (talk) 04:54, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I apologise if you have become offended. It is common on Wikipedia for editors to make these warnings when they think they may be needed. It was not unreasonably for me to assume you were suggesting or, it may be percieved that your inferrence was that Deviant art was a good place to find animations for use on Wikipedia. There may well be, however the link you left also was to copyright violations that Deviant Art has not removed. It is common on Deviant art to recieve questions and/or warnings for copy protected works uploaded. Also since it is the very nature of collaboration on Wikipedia to work together telling another editor to "mind your own business" is irrelevant. It's all our business. And I would at least hope, if you were not aware of copyright policy on either sites that perhaps this was something to discuss or think about. Sorry Penyulap.--Amadscientist (talk) 05:41, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I just spent probably 2 hours ? looking over the first two pages that come up. Inspirational, and brilliant in so many ways. Techniques of course, but approaches too, editorialising, political commentary. It's all a brilliant place to become lost finding yourself. So many adaptable ideas for all my work, and it changes the direction of my work too. If I gave examples I'd be here forever though.
Generally I specify my visual searches to wiki when I am working as I can use the stuff faster, I don't know how to do free image searches properly outside the project and it would help if I did. Searches for the pure inspiration are too rare, thank you for the trip ! :) I have come across deviantart.com before, things always come up in searches, and I think at one point I studied the dramaz surrounding wikipe-tan just to be educated on the subject prior to choosing the inevitably best path for the future, (as in wikipe-tan doesn't hide under the refrigerator when you turn on the light and has opposable thumbs. That said, every celebrity has critics, every celebrity, and the only cure is not to be a celeb or not care. A tiny minority on wikipedia took the wrong path there by choosing a creepy crawly whatever it is as a mascot, which is the same as no mascot. The right path is to recognise that if you sit and name people who have been dead for more than 100 years you can sit and do that for the rest of the day (and then return to it tomorrow) but if you try to name critics who have been dead for 100 years it cannot be done, even experts would need no life at all before they could name a dozen. Critics will only have the notoriety that the celebs give them, and wikipe-tan's popularity can only grow. Penyulap ☏07:46, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You was trying to conduct "human test" but you not know is i am a cat! This is picture of me captured with webcam: NO SCARE AGAIN!!! :P benzband (talk) 17:05, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
^Barber, Katherine, ed. (2004). Canadian Oxford Dictionary (2nd ed.). Don Mills, Ont: Oxford University Press. p. xiii. ISBN0-19-541816-6. The main headword represents the most common form in Canadian usage.
It may be hidden, but it's not hidden enough ! the ISS has a three year war that will inevitably lead to arbcom over ENG:VAR ! this is just the sort of armaments the soldiers would love to get a hold of. As for myself, I have precisely no idea what my browser spell checker is set for, and if that's not bad enough I have more than one computer (for art) and I think that they are set different. On the other hand, I should take an interest, I see there is the possibility of war breaking out over the spelling of 'diarrhoea'. Penyulap ☏17:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am taking a very long wikibreak for 1-2 years. Please remember the infobox. And finish the work. I've added to be decided to the parameters i don't know. Thank you.Mir Almaat Ali Almaat ☏ From Trivandrum, Kerala, India(UTC+5:30) 11:03, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I had an account. I can't login to that now. Remember, I'll be back only on 2013-2014 so please finish the infobox.Mir Almaat Ali Almaat ☏ From Trivandrum, Kerala, India(UTC+5:30) 11:12, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Like the Indian Barnstar of National merit, or any other national merit barnstar...a barnstar for contributions to Commonwealth articles was what I thought.My plan was to replace the Indian flag with the Commonwealth flag.If it fits in nicely....very good.......or if you have any alternate ideas...please go ahead...... StrikeEagle✈03:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done, it's a messy image to begin with I think, however it's a quick fix, I would wonder if a laureate can be combined in place of the medal, it would look 100% better, but the politics I think may not be compatible. Penyulap ☏09:51, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
At full resolution there are messy marks in the indian barnstar, and therefore in the commonwealth barnstar. Laureates are the leafy green things here 3/4 of the way down the page. Penyulap ☏11:47, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll leave the checking of politics to you, or the recipients, I can't see it as much of a problem, as you can say the laurier is a wikipedia thing today anyhow. Penyulap ☏12:15, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very very sorry...but me being an Indian..couldn't understand what you said.Excuse me and please repeat.I'm sorry for the inconvenience caused. StrikeEagle✈12:27, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes of course, I think that the laurier is used in Europe more than on english wikipedia. I think it is popular on French wikipedia. There may be a connection between France which is not part of the commonwealth and the laurier. I do not know, I have not checked. The award however looks great visually, and I expect anyone would be happy to receive it. If it is a problem and there is no connection between the laurier and the commonwealth, then a connection can be made between wikipedia and the laurier. On wikipedia the laurier is popular as an award, and so it can be combined that way, like an adoption. Penyulap ☏12:49, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Got it now.....really liked the image..........just wanted to know if there are any chances of making it transparent of that blue colour...any chances? StrikeEagle✈12:58, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I uploaded a new version in an attempt to smooth out those rough edges. It's smoother but still not great. I'm actually not sure which is better. Anyone can feel free to revert. Equazcion(talk)13:47, 19 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Penyulap/Archives. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
my logic often leads to strange conclusions, such as reporting myself to ANI, so an unusual statement like that editors is somewhat like something I would say. Penyulap ☏20:28, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It seems you have a lot of energy to help decide matters, such as ANI reports and blocks of troublesome users. You might work well as a new admin. Perhaps this is a good time for you to submit an initial WP:RfA, to get direct feedback on where to concentrate, on the road to becoming a future admin. As I understand the environment, it is important to avoid future blocks, as each block will be hyped into "hideous, incorrigible behaviour" which would be cited, by many, as reasons to deny your adminship. However, with the feedback from other editors, you might gain adminship, later this year, and could work to improve the processes to investigate and judge the "WP:Gaming of the system" which many admins cannot catch during ANI-incident discussions. Things to ponder. -Wikid77 (talk) 00:33, 21 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
hmph, it loads and works, and maybe it killed a bunch of cats or whatever, and ok, I agree it's not bento, but I can't see what all the fuss was about, it suits the purpose. Penyulap ☏13:43, 20 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Lolz, well, visually the sushi on wiki looks a good deal better than the bento on wiki, so I don't mind sushi, in RL, bento is the serious snack because it is often intended to be very visual. If I make an ice-cream for friends, I go all out in the toppings, bowl (usually a sundae glass) a wafer, choc stick, taste certainly extends a long way into presentation. These things are very seriously important and effect the taste. I visited a western style restaurant with a softserve icecream machine a few times, and make proper ice cream serves, (conical in shape, 20cm high at least, geometrically decorated with whatever is available, or shaded with sprinkles across its sides. If strangers are nodding or clapping as I walk back to my table then I've done a good job. (it's happened more than once) :)
Wow... congratulations for your obsession with food and cooking!!!! ...I like eating too..(Lazy isn't it?) I wish I had a friend like you in real life. Brendon ishere14:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, on one hand it's worth it for the ice cream creations, but on the other hand there are a few who would be embarrassed for no particular reason to be seen with such a flamboyant ice cream sculptor, but meh, they get used to it. No guts, No glory. Penyulap ☏14:58, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hello fellow Wikipedian, the hardworking hosts and staff at WP:Teahouse would like your feedback!
We have created a brief survey intended to help us understand the experiences and impressions of veteran editors who have participated on the Teahouse. You are being selected to participate in our survey because you edited the Teahouse Questions or Guests pages some time during the last few months.
If you would like to unblock someone where you see an error has occurred, you'd naturally start with WP:unblock, which says nothing about 3rd parties, and following the link to Wikipedia:Appealing a block you get instructions, nothing on a 3rd party, and that leads to the Wikipedia:Guide to appealing blocks, hmm, yeah, well nothing there either. So I popped an unblock template onto someones page, which is apparently not the way to do it, because as it has been pointed out, it goes on your own page. So, hey, enjoy !! Penyulap ☏22:42, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Greetings Penyulap. I noticed your question and comments here and wanted to offer some insight. It is possible to request the removal of another user's block, I've done it with positive results. It is not a function of the template and nothing in the /doc requires amending. The best manner is to send your comments and request directly to the blocking administrator through their talk page. There's hardly an administrator in the corps who wouldn't consider a reasonable request, and if errors are shown, be as interested, if not more, to effect a remedy. I am aware however that saying a block is erroneous is not synonymous with an error in fact. Many times the error is assuming there is an error, but the best way to improve understanding is through discussion. I hope this helps a bit. My76Strat (talk) 01:48, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm thinking that it is a brilliant idea that somewhere in the whole unblock guides/docs/policies which I went through, we put a section or at least a footnote, on how to do a 3rd party request. Also, given the dismissive attitudes towards the requests, which is fairly typical, some guidance on what to do next. Whilst I appreciate the assistance, I appreciate additions to the documentation by the same mathematical factor as the number of editors it will assist in the future.
I didn't mean to imply your idea had no merit. Frankly it does, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this information appended. I guess I was focusing on what the information would likely say, opposed to its omission. Cheers. My76Strat (talk) 02:26, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, as far as I can see, it's contact the admin who did it, then take it to AN with a title 'block review request' that's what I learnt today in school mom/dad. Penyulap ☏03:33, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
it looks like a good project, but visually it kind of completely sucks :) some things spring to mind straight away, like anime, do you want like, a record player that goes round and round ? or like, a stereo with a L.E.D. bargraph that goes in time with (silent) music ? Penyulap ☏03:42, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Any manner of assistance is in great demand. Perhaps you can critique the Portal as well. Better yet, join the project; and help improve it. That would be well appreciated. My76Strat (talk) 03:58, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey that sounds great the portal has flashing text, so that's brilliant as I often get objections based upon 'too flashy', so this looks very promising indeed. Penyulap ☏04:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed I look forward with optimism. Please be bold with your ideas to improve the entire presentation. The Portal and WikiProject are tandem goals and neither is a finished product by any measure. Some of the missing elements result in my considerably novice understanding of programing in general. So tell me, how can we make these pages not suck? My76Strat (talk) 04:36, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
argh! It'll take more than my skills to do all that, for code, I can't possibly tell you who to bother, I know only two really good coders, and I like to save their help for myself :) but the easy way is to steal code from other pages, find the bits you like and modify it for yourself, trial and error, it works, and you don't need to know in depth why that is.. Penyulap ☏04:49, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much for the new friend. I've moved him to my user page because being of such a sensitive nature, I'm sure he'll find the air better for his emotional health, there.( Ill have to move him around later on so he has a better view.olive (talk) 22:05, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome! It's one of the best comedies of all time, due to the quality of the writing. This guy was particularly brilliant. Starting at season 4 is where it really became an undeniably classic show IMHO, right from the season opener. Now we're looking at a 24th season... amazing. Cheers :> Doctalk11:53, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Quality ? it was started as an accident almost, or a doodle just the same. I should hope some of my doodles do so well someday :) Penyulap ☏11:56, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I had a quick scan, and will have a careful read a little later as I want to give it my full attention before making a comment. Penyulap ☏15:34, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, RTV sent me the tape of his hamsters launch, you could give him this userbox if you like.
I'd give it to him myself, but I worry he thinks I will unplug him anytime I come near him after the pesky express drafting incident.
This user is concerned for the welfare of Palz hamster.
{{User:Penyulap/UBX/PenLaunch}}
for some reason passing the ubx custom text doesn't work, I hope a stalker can help there, or with categories for my userboxes, or anything else, I'm always glad for techno-stalker assistance. For the time being it can be placed as-is on his userpage. Penyulap ☏17:18, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, no, the project has to epically fail, slowly, before a viable alternative appears, that will take years. In the meantime, the cream of the crap shall compound itself as the good people leave, and nobody cares to care. Asking why they are leaving has no effect upon effecting a solution. Penyulap ☏00:08, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can't rebut anything you have said; only remind you that good people leaving compounds the problem; and ask that you not leave the project because of someone else. My76Strat (talk) 00:25, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
One need to remember that the wisdom of crowds produces lowest common denominator results and that wikipedia is an amusing social experiment. Nothing in this experiment should be taken seriously except one's own part in it. At least it's a safer social experiment than allowing morons to drive cars or vote in elections :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 06:47, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Moves have been underway for some time to ensure every idiot in America has the right to vote in the counties election. The article requires updating.
Wiki documentation requires clarification that it reflects United States law. It is policy that every 6 foot turn with eyes and a keyboard watches for changes and zombie masses of such editors follow anything attractive to click revert and halt work with demands you educate them in a field they have no fucking hope of ever grasping. It just takes one or two zombie turds to demand the Sistine Chapel is sandboxed on the pavement in chalk so that after the exhaustive work is complete they don't see the problem with the existing ceiling which keeps out the rain and has done so for years. In the wheelhouse of the Titanic just one or two zombie turds stop anyone applying a little trim to the wheel because it is perfectly clear there are no icebergs in the wheelhouse, and the ice is in the drinks so ask a waiter, ask anyone, ice is a good thing and doesn't pose any threat, have some. Has a zombie turd managed to get a badge and blasted an innocent person into indef ? well the mistreated person has to apologise to the turd first and prove to the community they won't be abused by turds ever again. (not my case, pick any case) It's a social taboo to protect the abused, don't take the badge from the zombie, it's so much better to let them indef after indef after indef and lose that string of troublemaking(sarcasm) editors and keep the turd with the badge. Penyulap ☏17:13, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I do see what you mean regarding the abused. But I always did, here. What looks at first to be a charming and sweet place is a microcosm of delegated dictatorship. One plays here for fun, never for anything serious. One may and shoudl appear to be serious, but it is merely a place to practice life skills required in office politics survival games :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 21:12, 28 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I vote you should be put in charge of judging community consensus on wikipedia, you have that wikipedia knack for it. Penyulap ☏19:20, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Then again 6 months from now I might not feel as destructive as I do now. Meh, these things come and go. Sometimes my contribs are straight green, sometimes wham !!! contributions need more colours. Penyulap ☏21:33, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Penyulap - I ran across your Innocent prisoner's dilemma article (which I very much enjoyed), and noticed the "linkrot" tag at the top - so I ran that "reflinks" fix tool to change the bare URLs to templated data for the references section. If you're not happy with the results - feel free to revert my edits and I'll not be upset at all. Best of luck Chedzilla (talk) 16:27, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can change the embedded text easily enough, and crop the image top and or bottom. I would guess you can easily edit the links, I think that red carpet could be members rather than articles, or not, there is also hall of fame, but neither are good for articles, they both suggest people. I guess you can go with an industry award name ? or make one up :) Penyulap ☏07:44, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I definitely like the concept! Feel free to incorporate your ideas to the fullest extent. Link pages as you see fit and if pages require creation, create them in good faith. Thank you for assisting the project. It would be great if you would sign on as a member. My76Strat (talk) 07:23, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
at the moment there are too many layers and 'over simplification' of page code has had the opposite effect, making editing difficult even impossible. Generally code like that is better off in places you don't want help, rather than places you might, or wikiprojects, which don't attract vandalism. Penyulap ☏17:51, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is a fair observation. It has crossed my mind as well. Sunday evening is the period when I change the featured content and DYK snippets. This evening I'll begin substituting the content opposed to transcluding it. Thanks - My76Strat (talk) 22:37, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
please just go ahead and delete it, there were a few assorted bits and pieces created whilst developing PALZ higher functions :) ...palz does not yet propagate and translate and that is still quite a while off, that particular template is not useful anymore and contains nothing useful. Penyulap ☏ 22:13, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I came across that case when I was researching the article topic and dismissed it as a poor example. Naturally I don't care what anyone adds to the article. Penyulap ☏ 23:52, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure if you're aware, but your edit to your userpage was fine, and that other guy was wrong to revert it. People post "fuck wikipedia" on their userpages every day. There's no rule against it. Equazcion(talk) 05:32, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I know, but meh. I can't say as I care really, I'd rather see what other people can come up with, I'm curious. :) Penyulap ☏ 05:34, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Innocent prisoner's dilemma until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. SarekOfVulcan (talk)13:49, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
please just go ahead and delete it, there were a few assorted bits and pieces created whilst developing PALZ higher functions :) ...palz does not yet propagate and translate and that is still quite a while off, that particular template is not useful anymore and contains nothing useful. Penyulap ☏ 22:13, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I came across that case when I was researching the article topic and dismissed it as a poor example. Naturally I don't care what anyone adds to the article. Penyulap ☏ 23:52, 1 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I'm not sure if you're aware, but your edit to your userpage was fine, and that other guy was wrong to revert it. People post "fuck wikipedia" on their userpages every day. There's no rule against it. Equazcion(talk) 05:32, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I know, but meh. I can't say as I care really, I'd rather see what other people can come up with, I'm curious. :) Penyulap ☏ 05:34, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)
You have my most profound apologies for not having noticed your additional comments on the Wikipe-tan image. A baptism image might be very good, indeed. Also, FWIW, I do hope that, maybe in time, we might have some of the other religion projects adopt some sort of image of her. Although it is a bit of a stereotype, we might have her lifting the headcovering from a burka for an image for the Islam project, for instance. And I have always loved the colors of saris, and actually like any pictures of women in them. (I could make some sort of off-color comment in very dubious taste here regarding, for instance, livestock of some sort in saris, and am actually sorely tempted to, but will try to restrain myself.) I think we may start voting when this month's newsletter gets sent out, which I hope is tomorrow, but do think that there would probably be time to develop a "baptism" image if you wanted to. Having said that, my own comment was more about the bikini than the baptism in the image suggested by someone else. Thanks again for your efforts. John Carter (talk) 19:00, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I do not understand the reference to 'lifting'. don't worry too much about being busy, everyone overlooks things. There wouldn't be time to develop a baptism image, there is a lot of work I am doing, which in itself doesn't stop it, what does slow down or speed up things is which tools I am concentrating on, and which tools I have mastered. The tools the original artist used for wikipetan are still out of my grasp, I can use them, but the interface is counter-intuitive which makes it like chewing glass, it can be done, but I'd rather just spit it out and use something tastier, I prefer to use tools that are intuitive so I can short circuit the learning process entirely, which is more productive. At the moment there are no SVG tools which I have mastered, and none I can use to cheat with, and the original one is, as I said, a pain. Penyulap ☏ 20:18, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Interestingly File:Knowledge_English_EU_map.png includes Turkey (turns out "candidate countries" are included. Even more interestingly the svg version includes Iceland and not Turkey! Maybe encourage you to crack that SVG barrier... RichFarmbrough, 17:04, 3 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Using that software was really really not so much draining, what is the word I look for, there is no word for it. (I thought and there is no word) I can hear Auntie trying to grasp to explain it as well. It's not so much frustration and disgust, they are simple and don't rise so fast and are not the same thing. The problem with that software is that when I skip over the learning process by cheating, it doesn't work because it is poorly designed, pervasively badly designed, like Windows on speed. When I shortcut normally and skip over things, I'll be like thinking what I want to do, and then compute what it would be called / look like / where it is located, and then I go to that place and find it and use it. But for SVG it is as natural as resting your shoulder on the seat of a bicycle with your feet up in the air and using your arms to pedal whilst watching where you are going through a mirror. Takes some getting used to. Too much. Too much for me, I just talk someone else into giving me a lift in a car or something. So it's like returning to the bicycle and doing a headstand where it's the shoulder on the seat, get the mirror ready and then away you go. Penyulap ☏ 20:50, 3 Jun 2012 (UTC)
That is not the place for the discussion, either on user talkpages where things can be addressed and personal problems solved, or at ANI where nobody will be happy with the outcome, including me. I'd rather people made efforts to get along together, rather than being abrasive. The abrasiveness started prior to my participation in that conversation, and the graphics lab is not the place to fix it anymore. Penyulap ☏ 05:12, 6 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. It has been pointed out before that the question is itself moot, because if it is not blue, it is pointless fluff regardless of where it is. Credit for the image goes to Richard, who has been here working hard for some time, watching the dynamic develop. If you click through to the original image you can find him and the associated discussions. And please do go and call him a Genius as well, he is tired of other labels, I think his current label is "collateral damage" Penyulap ☏ 00:41, 8 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Bliss - an answer infinitely more sublime than than the question. Praise be to you and Richard, and 10^24 curses to me for filling up more non-article space with this banality. Thom2002 (talk) 03:00, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I love this little guy! It makes a perfect top icon, which is where it now sits on my user page. I noticed that old demon drama was circling you for a while there, so I had to wait for it to be exorcised. But I can't help complimenting you when something as great as the 99%er makes its way from your brain to commons. Maybe they should start up a wikimedia:uncommons to house creations like this and your grumpy editor award, which really is brilliant. Exeunt. INeverCry02:03, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, the spam thing doesn't work. It might work if there was a red circle over it with a line through it to indicate anti-spam. The 99% works because it's a figure in action, a mini-protester if you will, while the spam version could just as well be a spam file icon for the folder where you put all your junk email. Пока! INeverCry03:19, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, that has made my day all over again. I think your page looks fantastic, very orderly. Penyulap ☏ 03:29, 9 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I hope you could lend me some of your effort in working out few articles which are related to India and are of very high notability. One example is Tuberculosis in India. I found out that there is an article about Tuberculosis in China, but none for India which tops world in the number of Tuberculosis patients. The situation is really grave and that is what tempted me to start the article. I think we have enough compelling reasons to collaborate and develop this article. We need loads of data also, this effort requires some experienced attention which I might get from you. I have also other articles at my mind too (eg., Diabetes), but this lists at the top of that very list. Kindly let me know your idea. VIVEK RAI : Friend? 15:29, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not much into writing articles except when they get in my way, I'm somewhat disillusioned with wikipedia at the moment, however I did tell one editor who does seem to like writing articles, you never know, he might be interested. The other thing is to ask the largest contributor to Tuberculosis in China, they may well have an interest, and look at letting the wikiprojects on the talkpage there know about it too. Penyulap ☏ 16:42, 11 Jun 2012 (UTC)
done, do you know what year he was born ? it would be easy to add now. There is the opportunity for anyone interested to write a bio for him, apparently he was quite a character, quite charming. Penyulap ☏ 02:32, 12 Jun 2012 (UTC)
is there a free photo we can use anywhere ? Penyulap ☏ 05:48, 12 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Actually I did not know anything about this person till this morning. Today in my watchlist I saw recent edits in deceased page, and as I found you were one of the primary contributors of that section, I though you'll have a photo etc! Oops! Similarly I managed to collect Steven Rubenstein's photo there. I am just another editor of that page, I don't think I can collect a photo. :-( But, this person was highly educated. "B.M.E., B.E.E. (1949) and M.S. (1950) from Cornell University". Here I have found some good information (specially bio section), I think we can add it there! What do you think? --Tito Dutta✉06:34, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And since I found the person did not send any message to your personal message to your (this) account, I thought you know him personally. I can write a short bio there if needed. And in his userpage, a "deceased" notice should be added, and in very first line of his page, the link ARMD is a disambiguation link (the page was not a disambiguation page when he write it), what do you think–should we correct it? --Tito Dutta✉06:39, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
yes by all means go ahead and fix it, I will be happy to do it myself and take responsibility for it, I will have a looks soon. (I mess with lots of people's userpages, and we're not talking minor changes either, so I'm good to go there).
I did not know CAR Kagan personally, I saw someone ask, I think at ANI, (you may find it in my contribs around the time I edited the page). The editor asking at ANI did not know if it would be ok or not to include Mr Kagan in the list as he has less than the usual minimum limit of edits, however, I saw that he could indeed make the list to the communities satisfaction, by a very wide margin. All I knew at the time was about 30 minutes or so researching and the rest is intuitive. His article would be an excellent candidate for a wp:dyk, though, as far as I can tell, you need to do the research in some depth first before creating the article, to qualify for the DYK. I'd be happy enough to help, I'm not into standards, but I can write in an engaging manner for subjects like this when I put my mind to it. Penyulap ☏ 08:06, 12 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I've asked to have the template inserted onto his userpage. Penyulap ☏ 08:50, 12 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Dennis, a nice chap who I asked, suggested drafting and discussing, which, when I thought of it is a great idea, because anything we do put in would be much better after we've done an article, after all, who knows what would turn up ? I've put a few things here and I think I'll draw a picture, unless US patents are pd ? I'm guessing they probably are... Penyulap ☏ 14:14, 12 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I've had a positive response to a request I made for an image of Claude Kagan. Penyulap ☏ 15:05, 16 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Hello Penyulap/Archives, ClueBot III has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing! Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
Yes, of course I think it was appropriate to remove the graphic. If I didn't think it was appropriate, I wouldn't have done it. First of all, it was two years out of date, and therefore inaccurate as a representation of the situation. Second, it was practically illegible at its resolution. Third, I don't have the means or the data to create an up-to-date graphic. If you have the means and the data and are willing to keep updating it, then please create a graphic that brings the information up to June 16, 2012. I don't think that simply replacing the same outdated (and unverified) data in a different format is the right thing to do. Better no data than bad data.RandomCritic (talk) 13:47, 16 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll have a look into it, however, I have doubts that two years is any kind of a good idea in this case, because the ratios simply haven't changed in a noticeable manner, but I'll let you decide about tagging it.
I've changed it ahead of your request to a format that can be easily edited by anyone, however, if you like to suggest a set of figures and a graphic I shall be happy to make one for the article. Penyulap ☏ 14:01, 16 Jun 2012 (UTC)
thank you for that, I am delighted you're smart enough to work it out, I think some of my images get deleted because the information which is obvious to some people isn't put precisely into the right fields. I'm too apathetic to fix it a lot of the time, and I can suggest changes to the forms/wizard but suggesting changes is completely pointless most all of the time on wikipedia, it is such a futile effort to make the most clear and obvious improvements, so in the end I just end up doing awards or something, which lasts much longer as there are people interested in assisting to keep them. But for the Chinese Space Station or OPSEK new work is pointless, shrug.
I appreciate your help. Penyulap ☏ 10:27, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I... know....PALZ90...00 has ....done..... a bit.... of mischief but , I was asking(....I mmeant...not to angry you.....) but can I put the blocked template on his user talk and user pages.......if you were pleased.....Mir Almaat Ali Almaat ☏ From Trivandrum, Kerala, India(UTC+5:30) 11:22, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
nobody is trying to block you. Don't worry about his pages, they are fine. Penyulap ☏ 12:44, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Your recent editing history at International Space Station shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Both you and Craigboy have already violated the three-revert rule. Discuss it on the talk page, and don't change the article until you both agree on a compromise. If you can't find anything to agree on, then go to dispute resolution or open a request for comment. I am sending this warning to both parties, I won't report either of you at this stage, but if you continue then you will be blocked. --W.D.Graham13:40, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I really think it will be a cold day in hell when I take consensus lessons from you WD. The reason nobody is going to report anything is because Craigboy is such a valuable editor, to me, and always willing to have a chat. This is something we can fix all by ourselves (amongst the editors) without ANI. Penyulap ☏ 13:45, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I agree you have both made useful and valuable contribution, but your edit war is starting to become disruptive, so I will take whatever action is necessary to resolve it. Secondly, your inability to accept consensus on the other issue (which was resolved and I will not be drawn into reopening) is also disruptive, just drop it and stop trying to make a point. --W.D.Graham14:03, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is no chance whatsoever of that happening WD, it is wishful thinking to pretend that other issue is settled. I'm just a bit busy at the moment, I'll get back to you and Ckatz when I have time to spare. Penyulap ☏ 14:15, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
How can you interpret five against one in favour of retaining the status quo to be anything other than a consensus to do so. We also reached a consensus that you should stop bringing it back up every few months. The issue is dead, and if you try to bring it back a fourth (or is it fifth, I've lost count) time, sanctions will be brought to bear on you. --W.D.Graham14:19, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
promises promises, and "I'm the only one" I've heard it all before, I want a divorce. Penyulap ☏ 14:43, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
just to pre-empt any remarks, I've pretty much summed up what the community will be forced to face. This is inevitable, so there is hardly any need for me to expand on my comments at ANI, so there is no need to ask me not to do so. (the community is a lot slower than it should be on this issue, I'm just a bit further ahead in time than most others) Penyulap ☏ 22:19, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I'll be staying out in solidarity with Andy, so it'll be longer than 24 hours by the look of it. I'd rather be a martyr while defending wikipedias highest moral standards than remain and turn a blind mind to the worst offences against fundamental policy. If people want to look no further than the end of their nose when making judgements and decisions, reading short phrases without studying the issue, it's no concern of mine. Penyulap ☏ 23:30, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Wow, I just realised you're a full hour behind me. Penyulap ☏ 23:32, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
That's your choice, clearly; I was holding back on pressing the block button on Andy in the hope that he'd retract what was obviously a frustrated outburst, but your deliberate repetition of it was unfortunately always going to end in a block. Since the issue of Sceptre's editing is now coming under scrutiny at ANI (and I agree with a topic ban) hopefully this will be the end of it. Black Kite (talk) 23:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Like hell it will be, you're all far too slow and cannot see what is going on or where the future lies. Sceptre will be banned only from his most obvious prime target, considering how slow the community is in recognising Sceptre's behaviour, to the point of obtuseness, Sceptre will simply disperse and spread the exact same behaviour into other areas, and with that less focused approach, Sceptre will continue permanently to undermine the project. But hey, thanks for taking 60 seconds out of you busy commute was it ? to judge the entire issue. Brilliant work. These systems filter out the good editors, whilst collecting the cream of the crap. Penyulap ☏ 23:52, 21 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Whilst Wikipedia is broken in some areas, I don't believe it is when it comes to persistent POV/COI editors. If Sceptre persists in pushing a line across multiple articles that is clearly rejected by other editors, then a much wider topic ban - or indeed a long block - will ensue. Black Kite (talk) 23:55, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
A long block my fat arse. You are failing to take into account how long it has taken to get to the point of banning Sceptre from manning. Actually, I'm talking from the future, as the ban hasn't yet been decided has it ? Consider that time, and the dispersal, and my extrapolation stands perfect. If you don't believe me, wait 10 years and see. The crap becomes compounded, woven into the fabric of the project and becomes inseparable. Bah. I'm explaining kaleidoscopes to the blind. Penyulap ☏ 00:01, 22 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Actually, you're not. If you can show me evidence of Sceptre POV pushing and/or being disruptive over multiple articles then I'll quite happily take it to ANI to see what the community thinks. I've been here a while and I know that Sceptre has had a number of issues with his editing previously. As the phrase goes, show me the money. Black Kite (talk) 00:09, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do your own homework, rather than blocking someone and then tuning around and asking for their help. My god, do you know shit about real life ? Penyulap ☏ 00:15, 22 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Onoes! Please, Pen dearest, don't let your emotions get the better of your (remarkable) intelligence here in Wikipedia! I have only just discovered this block and what led up to it at AN/I, and it's made me feel guilty for not being around enough :o( I can fully understand where your feelings are coming from, and I understand (only too well!) just how easy it is for us fallible humans (let alone our particular subset of humans! ;P) jut to let our feelings pressurise us into letting fly and going a few steps too far. Megahugs to you; I feel that you need them at the moment. Do remember that if you shoot your own horse, it can't continue to carry you into the field! Please, take a few deep breaths, disengage from the emotional stuff for while, make those emotions take a back seat and let your astounding intellect guide you in here. Just the same as you would if you were the only first-aider at a major road accident. You can't afford to let the emotions affect your abilities to save lives; same goes in here, too. Pesky (talk) 05:49, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The project is a disappointment, as the smallest, most superficial level of gaming is allowed to destroy it entirely. What anyone with eyes can see is that if you have 2 minutes to spare and no experience, you can write a python program to replace 95% of the admins on wikipedia. Anything beyond that, like a murderer who speaks politely, owns this place, and the admins as well.
! You need to upgrade your Adobe Flash Player to watch this video.
Download it from Adobe. Use the direct link to youtube instead.
search for this video from the International school of online editing, title "the kind of co-operation expected on English wikipedia, - a foreigners guide"
It's an offence to conventional wisdom. On wikipedia, words speak louder than actions.
It is very easy to be blinded to the essential failure of Wikipedia by the sense of achievement you get from getting it to work at all. In other words - and this is the rock solid principle on which the whole of wikipedia's success is founded - its fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by its superficial design flaws.
— 42
I can, as you know, just 'flip the switch' and be 'over it', or turn it into more insight or whatever, or just leave the switch in both positions or whatever. But seeing things from Andy's perspective is so obvious and attractive because he is the one with 1000% integrity (I typed an extra zero by there by accident, then though, leave it there, it's true) while the other editor is using gaming to slip past the mob mentality, undermine everything, and now playing a different good editor's strengths and weaknesses like they were a musical instrument devoid of sentience entirely, and in a way that reminds me immediately of the way adept Junkies will play a person's thinking against them, appearing to be in complete agreement, while using that person as a tool to get what they want. Oh, you can watch it happen, watch the whole sorry affair, wikipedia is nothing but a spectator sport after all. A daytime drama, a 24/7 drama, watch everyone mug each other as you please drama, just so long as they hold their teacup properly with little pinky finger extended so, then all is well, all is as it should be, one foul word like "Don't drink that shit it's poison" and you're banned for foul language, and everyone is back to the teaparty like that silly business is thankfully behind us now the gardener has been removed/sacked, more tea anyone ?
Explain a principle like the innocent prisoner's dilemma to people, and try to get it recognised in policy, and it's all 'oh that's nice' and it's clearly understood, explained properly, and it's still, 'let's move on without doing anything'. Bah! the fundamental design of wiki is contrary to the fundamental anthropology of humanity. You cannot embody higher thoughts into a mob.
The proper thing is to see the future from the future looking back and assist the transition, which can ONLY be accomplished by leaving the ever so slowly sinking titanic and going to a new project(actually it's possible to be on both ships at once). Bot's will watch you Auntie, because you won't need to, or want to, go before wiki is well underwater, so bots on the new site will watch the good editors and treat your words as scripture, while filtering the bad out and their trash with them.
Do I talk a lot ? I probably talk a lot, too much, I should shut up. Penyulap ☏ 11:21, 24 Jun 2012 (UTC)
you are right as always Auntie Pesky. Penyulap ☏ 18:53, 24 Jun 2012 (UTC)
It really sounds as though you're in a bad place at the moment. The most important thing to remember is that the majority of the people in WikiLand are good souls. Yes, there are a few manipulative ones around; yes there are a few just plain nasty ones; yes there are those who game the system and bring out the worst in an otherwise thoroughly good egg. It's like any big community. They're all just the same. You fell into a big pothole in the cart track, but fine – pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and look out alertly for people stretching kevlar threads across your path to make you fall over! Ultimately, the nasties get found out and go off with their tails between their legs. (Some of the nice guys go off like that, too, sadly.) I can see what was happening there. And I can understand your anger and frustration with things like that. But you can do a lot more about it if you stay on board ;P Pesky (talk) 18:47, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's not that I'm upset, I'm not at all, and I don't care at all about whatsisname, it's the community that I'm upset about, the systemic inability to deal with it's own problems, like an immune system that just _does_ _not_ _work_. The systems are doing whatever they can to be counter productive, to filter the wrong way.
Anyhow, I learn as quickly as you know I do, it's near impossible for the usual suspects to troll me anymore. I find their attempts amusing, like with that award recently made, and what is most amusing is the models they use to try to predict my behaviour. Now that makes me fall off my chair laughing. apart from being upset, which I'm not really, you predict me perfectly as always and can speak for me as always. I'm not in a place where I'm upset and worried to be banned, nor am I trying in any way to be banned, I am 99 % more likely to decide to leave the same way anyone leaves a cafe, library, or wherever a ruckus breaks out. Right now, I am boycotting 95%, up from my daily 50% boycott.
I simply need to do what I always do, and lower my expectations of he community. I simply expect too high a standard, and am woefully disappointed. Hence, as always, a new project is obvious, as it's not possible to do any worse than this one. I guess you can easily argue that I am upset, but the word upset is the wrong one as it conveys the incorrect meanings most of the time. Penyulap ☏ 19:10, 24 Jun 2012 (UTC)
You're right, "upset" isn't actually the right word. I'm not sure what is, though! But I'm pretty sure that I know what the feeling is, even if not the word which properly describes it. Communities work very well around people who conform to community goals and expectations, and they're always a bit lost when dealing with people who game the system – any system – in any community. It's right that we should assume good faith, but it does sometimes lead to someone getting away with far more than they should. Even so, I'd rather have ten guilty people go unpunished than one innocent one get wrongly zapped! We're a nicer community, that way; though a tad more vulnerable. Pesky (talk) 15:18, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
oh Auntie, we think with the same mind ! (hugz)
The gamers are as clear as day to me, they are so incredibly easy to see, I mean the few critics I have for example who sock are completely laughable, they are so far off the mark, trying to emulate new users to see if they can fool me, it makes my stomach hurt from laughing at their efforts. Whereas newbies in need of help are so totally completely different, I just can't see how other people miss these things, but they do of course, it's the nature of people to be different. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Sceptre got tossed off the topic and is under close scrutiny from now on and Andy got whacked because he did what he did on purpose, after getting whacked for the same damned thing just a few weeks ago. It doesn't seem to me like any great failure in this instance. Hang in there, --Tim //// Carrite (talk) 21:05, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the update, however I have already lowered my expectations of the project, and so the project in general doesn't particularly upset me as much. The ban is however just a part of the path I foresaw wherever it was I wrote it up, however long ago it was, Sceptre will dilute his/her(can't recall) efforts and be harder to catch whilst doing what will become a better job of it. That's pretty much the path laid out, so we may as well say welcome to the project Sceptre, because there is pretty slim to no chance of fixing things any longer, the opportunity has gone. So I'll say if he/she is reading, 'Welcome Sceptre' and you'll be more and more at home here as the system continues to filter as it does. Penyulap ☏ 21:24, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Stupid stuff like this does seriously affect our motivation, and our view of the project, often for a long time. It's June now, and I still haven't fully emotionally recovered from December's "party". It knocked me for six, and I very seriously considered quitting the 'pedia altogether. But, as Tim says, "Hang in there!" (He's so right! He's also one of the project's Good Eggs. Black Kite is another Good Egg. I can think of a lot here of the same type; that's partly what kept me going.) Tell you what: you're one of the people in here who lighten my life and make the place fun. I am perpetually amazed by the sheer level of genius embodied in you. The corollary to the genius thing, of course, is that the vast majority of people just can't help not seeing some stuff as clearly as you do. They can't help that any more than they can help the colour eyes they were born with. So it's not their fault, they're not "doing it on purpose". I so wish I could give you a Real Life Hug! I think you could do with one. On a lighter note: Hey! Did you see I got my first FA? :D [Pesky does big cheesy grin]Pesky (talk) 07:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That is a violation, and totally my own fault. It was pretty much the first big article I made, and so I did what I have been doing in the ISS for ages, summarizing the sub-articles into the main article as neurally as I can. They say there are about 500 pages of rules and guidelines on wiki and most people only know about 50, and that one I haven't come across before.
I'd very much appreciate assistance where it's required, I figure I can make some small edits and add to the summary for each section or some such to address the issue ? please feel free to assist, as I'm new at that sort of thing, but is that the idea in a nutshell ?
Oh, are there examples, actually you'd be able to name some articles where it has been done off the top of your head, I can have a look and learn fastest that way. Cool. Penyulap ☏ 22:11, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I've started with a bit of a stopgap measure, and will fill it in as I go along, I'll have to look and see what revision it was back then and so forth, and I'll have to think of the other articles it applies to, like the Core Cabin Module and so on. Some, like the Innocent prisoners dilemma are just all me though. I'm glad I learnt something new today :) thanks. please check back in a week or so to see how I've gone with it, to check for errors. Penyulap ☏ 22:29, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Is there some way I can expedite the process ? I'd rather get assistance if I can, and I have no problems with taking credit for a mess, just so long as it's a big mother of a mess :) Penyulap ☏ 22:39, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I am considering this CCI request. Are you willing to fix these problems yourself? (If so, dump this on a user subpage and work from there. The request will be declined. Let me know if you want to take this option.) We have enough CCIs as it is. MER-C09:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly I want to assist and fix the problem ! the page has been created here. I do believe that we need to look at a way to slow down or stop this from happening in the first place. Nobody is suggesting that I am stupid, or malicious, and without doubt you must come across countless cases the same as my own. I do believe that treating the cause is as important as treating the symptoms, and I would like to help with both. Penyulap ☏ 10:57, 28 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I would like to know the method I should use, as an example, I have added a null edit here and added a tick in the new listpage, with 'pen' next to the entry, would that be a good procedure to use ? Penyulap ☏ 13:39, 28 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Personally, I would use an oldid url (example) and also put a template on the talk page of the source article (to minimise the risk of it being deleted). MER-C02:53, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I hereby give you permission to edit my user and talkpages as you see fit. I would like to add some guidance of my own afterwards, for anyone who'd like to assist.
The images that I have uploaded to commons require attention, I haven't uploaded what would be considered copyright work according to the conversational meaning of the term, however, much of my work is poorly labelled and/or attributed, and I hereby give you, and anyone who has participated in copyright clean-up drives like this before who I have not previously spoken with, unrestricted authorisation to act on my behalf and release works I have uploaded on licenses as they see fit where ever it is possible for them to do so, and add attribution(s) as they see fit.
There are mixtures of images within single images I have made, for example, on the top of this page, where there are a lot of component images, which I figure will make the mix and match licensing difficult I guess, I've had trouble using the commons wizard, or entering or understanding the forms and licensing, and when it gets as complicated as it does, I wish you could enter each image name or url into a requester at the time of upload, so that the server could give you some idea if the licences are compatible whilst it is searching for duplicates. It could enter them into whatever fields they are meant to be in, it would help an enormous amount, although, I do understand that the people who read this will naturally assume I am wishing for ridiculous things here, because they are, by nature of the work they are doing, very familiar and adept at copyright matters. Whereas all I know is what annoys another human being and what doesn't, like file:mist lifting off cedars.jpg, in comparison to fair use, which I stay clear of. Penyulap ☏ 04:56, 29 Jun 2012 (UTC)
for articles getting deleted, I'm not at all concerned, I have only made a few, and they are good subjects with support from other editors, or, they have already been deleted :) but I don't mind either way, I'm not attached at all to what I do, I don't even bother cleaning up vandalism 99 % of the time. But that is not to say that I don't care about what I write, I do, very much. Penyulap ☏ 04:59, 29 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I would like to explain some background about the situation at ANI. The race and intelligence (R&I) topic has had a team of civil POV pushers for a couple of years (recently cleared out in an Arbcom case), and the R&I issue is related to nature vs. nurture. That latter point has been debated for decades and may never be resolved—there are interesting and valid points that can be made on both sides, and many correlations between a person's biology and their behavior have been found (so it's nature), while many studies have shown that upbringing and experience can contribute enormously to behavior (so it's nurture). The problem, particularly as far as Wikipedia is concerned, is that it is very easy to cherry pick studies to "prove" whatever theory one favors, and a second problem is that for well over a century people have tried to show that certain "races" are pre-determined by biology to be superior, while others are destined to be inferior (phrenology for example). There are results suggesting that on average, some "races" are superior to others regarding intelligence, while many (all?) scientists currently working in the field regard attempts to use intelligence in that manner as misguided due to the overwhelming confounding issues of nurture (for example, some groups of people genuinely have no desire to perform well on tests).
One of the problems at Wikipedia is that polite persistence is often rewarded by having neutral editors abandon articles, leaving them easy pickings for civil POV pushers. The result in the nature vs. nurture area is that dozens of articles end up giving a completely false picture of the science because any point favoring genetic determinism is highlighted, and balancing views are downplayed or ignored. This is not just a matter of an opinion on some scientific issue—at heart, it is an attempt to show that there are some races that are genetically destined to be inferior to others. Perhaps the issues will be scientifically resolved and that conclusion will be demonstrated in twenty years. However, it is known now that such a conclusion, if true, would apply only to averages over large populations, and would have no relevance for predicting the achievements of a particular individual. The reason that many are supporting a topic ban at ANI is that investigation of edits confirms that if unchecked, many articles will fail to be neutral. There is no easy way to resolve matters like this because only those with a deep emotional attachment to the topic are motivated to work in the area for month after month. I am just presenting my thoughts to provide some explanation, and am not looking for any response (but if you reply here, I will notice and won't need talkback). Johnuniq (talk) 04:01, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Eewwww, what a shite-hole of a topic! Yes, that's always going to attract non-neutral people (probably from both sides of the coin). Civil POV-pushers are probably a far bigger cause of "driving editors away from Wikipedia" than any amount of low-level occasionally-grumpy narrowly-defined-"uncivil" editors.[citation needed] They make life hell for people, and it's always the well-meaning, good-faith editors who really care about the standards of content who end up being pushed too far, snapping, and then being penalised for it. Yes, in an ideal world, none of us would ever snap in WikiLand; but Jeeze! I've even done it myself in the past (and that takes something!) Pseudo-scientific racism is one of the very worst sorts; it's pretty despicable. Pesky (talk) 05:07, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, what irritates me is the damage caused to articles on scientific topics—at least in areas like politics or great breakthroughs a reader should expect POV warriors (in the media as well as here), but it is disappointing that even articles on core science are used to promote undue views (and irritating also that the activism makes it hard for neutral editors to find balance because any concession unleashes more POV enthusiasm). Johnuniq (talk) 08:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
dear john, my remarks at ANI are simply re-enforced by your statement. I won't go into detail because, as I have mentioned, I'd like to see the matter die down. In this case Acadēmica Orientālis has a learning curve that can easily render the matter moot long before you or anyone else catches up. Someone (not you), intelligent enough to engage him, could give him the right type of guidance and shorten the journey, however, he'll be just as likely to silence the lot of you all by himself.
the only thing there is to add is, I shall apologise in advance if you are not the one who inserted the header for a topic ban above your call for a topic ban here. I've noticed someone leaving unsigned remarks there as well, which causes problems. So I'm sorry if I blamed you for proposing the ban as a section there. You propose it in your diffed remark, which is not appropriate at all, or, to put it another way, it's completely malformed. Penyulap
Pesky, certainly it can be problematic because there are rational, educated, notable sources on both sides as well as emotionally driven uninformed masses, however, like any other controversy, people on both sides would stay out of trouble if they allow the opposite side to present it's notable encyclopaedic case and leave it to the reader to make up their own mind. The only thing ANI should be doing is making sure everyone plays nice, and Acadēmica Orientālis certainly is. John, I notice, has two unfortunate hobbies, one is picking the wrong horse, and the other is not bothering to research whatever topic is under discussion. Picks the wrong horse, or the wrong track, or both. Penyulap ☏ 11:56, 27 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, there are parallels with spectrum studies and so forth, where biology and intelligence link up, however, there is a lack of controversy and everyone is free to discuss it (badly if they wish) without hindrance, because the uninformed masses think it is a disability, and the informed masses think it is an ability, so everyone is happy :)
The idiot can throw it as an insult, the genius can catch it as a compliment, and they will both be satisfied with the exchange. Penyulap ☏ 12:00, 27 Jun 2012 (UTC)
By the way, the language is already in place to allow for a user to question a 'disruptive' block. I quote: "Any user may report disruption and ask administrators to consider blocking a disruptive account"
Currently that is what is happening at AN. Arcandam felt that Sarek's actions were unwarranted and disruptive (what could be more disruptive to the encyclopedia that a bad block?) and as such, brought the request to AN. Maybe it is a novel way to look at it, but it seems like a reasonable interpretation. -- Avanu (talk) 14:59, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I do not mind, just point me in the right direction. Penyulap ☏ 20:01, 27 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Just dump a {{Please see}} template/link on whatever Village Pump and noticeboards you think should be notified. The RfC itself will be auto-listed at the policy subsection of the active RfC list, though it sometimes takes up to half an hour. - Jorgath (talk) (contribs)20:08, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
yes no problem, I will read up and do that, and ask for you assistance if required. thank you. Penyulap ☏ 20:26, 27 Jun 2012 (UTC)
While I appreciate that you are disappointed that few are willing to put your proposal explicitly into policy, that doesn't mitigate the silliness of your alternate proposal (Wikipedia_talk:Blocking_policy#Alternate_proposal) - I suggest you remove it. If you want to retain your 4:36 (UTC) comment, you can move it up to the earlier section. Ncmvocalist (talk) 09:06, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I flatly and sincerely deny the idea that it is silliness. If you can suggest where guidance for new editors can be included in a manner that can be implemented, I will be happy to abandon my attempts to assist them at the policy page. Penyulap ☏ 12:01, 30 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I don't object to it being re-factored. Penyulap ☏ 12:03, 30 Jun 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but no amount of refactoring will address the silliness of expecting the alternate proposal to be included in policy after the responses you have already received in your previous proposal. Although a number of the goals you have stated may be worth attempting to accomplish, there was a lack of wisdom in making the alternate proposal that you did as it appears to run counter to those same stated goals (even if that was not your actual intention). Anyway, it is not too late. You would be better advised to withdraw the alternate proposal and maybe draft an essay and see where that takes you. But if you can't help yourself as far as accepting that, then I think it is more likely that new editors will end up worse off with you continuing your attempts than they would without (which would be an unfortunate situation given what I said already about the goals). Ncmvocalist (talk) 14:03, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
please, you apparently can't take the hint so I am warning you, calling the proposal silliness is offensive, if you don't wish to be civil to me, consider this the last response and warning that you'll get from me. Penyulap ☏ 16:12, 30 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the message. See if what I did looks ok to you. Thanks for your work on this article - it's fun to read about the progress on this Space Odyssey. I'm not a scientist, so I'm grateful for those who take time to explain science topics so that they are fun for us muggles to read (if I may mix my literary metaphors). -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:36, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, I am really glad that you like it, some of may favourite parts I was thinking of today, like the part with the pope, how readers who like the old man would follow the ref and have a lovely read about it, and the drama of explosive decompression destroying the station, and X-3 class solar flares, there is so much I really enjoyed writing, and I must confess I'm not always a big fan of refs, they are a bit of a mess for me, but I adore it when I write something so precise and compelling that nobody ever ever ever bothers to cn tag it or even edit it really, like note 2 has been there forever, and the decompression, sometimes I think people get as lost in the story as I get lost in the telling. I love it. Penyulap ☏ 00:54, 29 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Why ? I am the puppeteer, case closed. It's a legitimate alternative account, used for some single purpose, I can't remember the policy, but it's probably linked through from the wp:sock page I would think. Penyulap ☏ 03:46, 3 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Comic bookstore guy "Worst... Block... Ever...". The 'vandalism' referred to, is the same in both cases, inserting a space, or spaces, into articles. Not the redirect, which is legit. The alternate account, is WP:SOCK#LEGIT to be precise. I'll quote first example given in the opening "long-term contributors using their real names may wish to use a pseudonymous account for contributions with which they do not want their real name to be associated," is one good reason, as I have a reputation you know, and my name can poison the well of many awards, like the tireless cybernetic contributor barnstar, click the yellow swirling center at the top of this page, you can follow it to the talkpage of WP:STAR and compare it's unpopularity there, with the warm reception it is given by it's recipients. Anyhow I figure User:INeverCry didn't need a dramaqueen's name on their page, being so serious an editor and all. Then there is the humor aspect spelled out as well, the dead poet returned from the dead to present the award, zomg can anyone actually read the page ? It is pride of place front and centerstage on INeverCry's userpage. It's no secret to anyone, omg do you think INeverCry thanked me, penyulap, and doesn't know ? whatever.
Then the poor editor who has opened the spi has quoted the wrong thing as 'vandalism' first, that's just idiotic to start with, what IS vandalism. A legitimate redirect is not vandalism. sheesh. Why do so very many google returns say "Byron Todd Frank, 6th Baron Byron, later George Gordon Noel, 6th Baron Byron, FRS (22 January 1788 – 19 April 1824), commonly known simply as Lord Byron, was a British poet and a leading figure in the Romantic movement." And what twit is calling this redirect vandalism ? well, that would be the idiot who has "blocked you for 24 hours for disruptive editing, i.e. making vandal edits with a sock"
So take your pick, is this an idiotic block for the legitimate redirect being redefined as vandalism,
or is this an idiotic block for inserting a space into an article.
The 'good faith mistake' refers to the editor who made the spi report, who has clearly not read WP:LEGIT, they made the GF mistake, not me, I'm a fucking Genius :) And the break is enjoyable, like Beyond my Ken says, and is right, I should shut up, at least once in a while, I do have a monumental mouth. Penyulap ☏ 09:01, 3 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Hugz; calm down! I can totally understand where you're coming from, in just the same way as I totally understood that when baby Rocket-pony fractured my skull it was entirely my own fault ... someone else might have walloped him for "being vicious". Just try to be a little bit less reactive; let things lie for a little while until the heat has died down in various situations, rather than letting your reactions get the better of you. Chill for a while; go out and get some fresh air and explore somewhere. Pesky (talk) 09:12, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The redirect was the vandalism, not the space (although the insertion or removal of whitespace only to make a trolling edit summary is disruptive in itself as well). The only Google results, as explained in the RfD, are Wikipedia mirrors, i.e. are caused by your redirect. And please refrain from making personal attacks, they will only result in the access to your talk page removed for the duration of the block and/or the block being extended. Fram (talk) 09:15, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep it up Fram, that foot of yours still has meat on it yet. Chew till you get right down to the bone. Oh yeah, that foot ain't going to see the light of day anytime soon. Penyulap ☏ 09:22, 3 Jul 2012 (UTC)
"making vandal edits with a sock" Preposterous. Can anyone read ? WP:SOCK#LEGIT and WP:VANDALISM, the incompetence is shocking. Once would be forgivable, an admin who doesn't bother to investigate anything at all is common no doubt. Then to reiterate the stupidity after it's been clearly pointed out, suggesting that "The redirect was the vandalism" despite WP:VANDALISM is unforgivable.
I would afford forgiveness to a newbie for this level of incompetence, but you deserve nothing as an admin. My integrity forces me to be truthful, and within those bounds there is some leeway, the most generous description I can afford you is incompetent. The most generous I could be in action, stretching the limits to the maximum, would be for me to allow you to apologise, and then ignore you.
"For interested readers, Worm has never done me any favours, nor I him. He mentions
I've got to say, I'm not seeing the abuse. I should point out that INeverCry uses that image prominently on his userpage. The worst thing he did was create a redirect which isn't appropriate. WormTT(talk) 08:53, 3 July 2012 (UTC) "[reply]
It turns out the complainant isn't a newbie, so obviously has no such excuse. Penyulap ☏ 11:06, 3 Jul 2012 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
The reasons given for the block cannot withstand the test of examination
Decline reason:
Indeed they can. The redirect is a reasonable one - it is not his name and bears no resemblance to his name. I don't want to see a mountain made out of a molehill here, but this request procedurally declined as it does not address the reasons for the block. WormTT(talk) 12:39, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
For the reviewing admin: the vandalism in question was the creation of the redirect Byron Todd Frank to Lord Byron, who was not named Byron Todd Frank. This kind of sneaky hard-to-find hard-to-disprove vandalism is far worse than writing vulgarities on the top of some random page. Penyulap has been seriously disruptive across the project - taking up the cause of borderline editors and creating meandering discussions about policy esoterica that are tangential to the improvement of the encyclopedia - his major contributions are generally disputed by other contributors - see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spaceflight#Penyulap. There is something seriously wrong here that requires substantial community review. Hipocrite (talk) 11:51, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting principal. In effect, it is a crime to defend the accused. Further, a person is guilty by mere association with the accused. --Hammersoft (talk) 12:52, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Penyulap has been seriously disruptive across the project".. Ahem. That's getting a bit personal. The redirect was plain stupid; but I;d suspect a moment or two of mental aberration rather than a bad-at-heart disruptive editor. I've been communicating with Pen for a good long while now, and he has a good heart. He also has genius capabilities in some areas, combined with a few perception deficits in others (particularly in some kinds of interaction). Typical autie, in fact. What we need to be doing with editors like Pen is working out how to get the very best out of them; this requires a certain amount of tolerance (no, not doormatty softness, just some patience and understanding and flexibility), a reasonable definition of boundaries, persistence, and maybe a go-between (for interpretation etc.). I'm happy to be the go-between as and when really needed (without being overloaded, please!). So if there's a problem which starts to look intractible, keep me in the loop.
Pen, being painfully and totally honest with yourself, can you bring yourself to admit that you acted like a total pillock and didn't foresee the possible consequences? (Hugz!) It wasn't your brightest moment ... but I can think of far, far more stupid things that I've done in my life ;P Pesky (talk) 15:15, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and "Keep it up Fram, that foot of yours still has meat on it yet. Chew till you get right down to the bone. Oh yeah, that foot ain't going to see the light of day anytime soon" was just out of order. Seriously. In your shoes, I would apologise for that one. Pesky (talk) 15:18, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, what's getting personal was his comment about Fram, and your attempted defense of someone for being Austistic, which I don't see this user having ever said. What's not personal is that we have a long-term low-grade disruptive editor who is apparently grooming numerous socks and now starting to branch out into sneaky vandalism. Hipocrite (talk) 15:23, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me? I thought I'd already commented on the comment to Fram. Either my memory (and eyesight) is non-functional, or something else is. With all due respect, I think your reaction is a bit too heavy-handed. It sniffs of some kind of vengeance. Pesky (talk) 15:56, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
let me tell you what I like about Hipocrite's arguments right here. He is logically supporting calls that I be murdered. Literally. He's pointing out and linking to a conversation between editors elsewhere to support his arguments, and the conversation that he is pointing to calls for me to be killed. This is a typical day in the life of wikipolitics. My loveable yet occasionally homicidal bot suggests that I should be tricked into going outside without my space helmet. And someone agrees with his comment, the only other comment he makes is that the witch-hunt needs a catchy jingle to go with it. So he is supporting one of those two arguments right there, where he refers to the comments my bot made. HE REFERS TO MY BOT BY NAME. Then, Hipocrite quotes that conversation as justification for his calls that I be whatever, and on and on it goes. Right here is what is wrong with wikipedia. Hipocrite needs discipline right here for his remarks. That is what needs to happen to fix wikipedia, and I don't see that it is ever going to happen. Penyulap ☏ 07:24, 5 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You are not taking valid criticisms onboard. No one paid any attention to what your bot said, except to note that using your bot to say it was not appropriate. No one is suggesting that you be killed. You must stop sockpuppeting, and you must stop vandalizing, now. Hipocrite (talk) 12:37, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pen, I respect your efforts to improve discussion on Wikipedia, but this reply of yours is completely off the deep end. You need to take a break and gather some perspective. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite17:20, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It may seem melodramatic, but have a look, at the discussion, it goes like this
Craigboy starts off in the wrong venue with "He is one of the more prolific editors but he's extremely biased and for the most part he has no idea about the subjects he contributes to. I don't mean to turn this into a witch hunt but what can be done about him?" which ironically, when you phrase it what way and in that manner with nowhere to go can only turn into a witchhunt. It's not so much a matter of I don't know what I'm talking about or am biased or any such blatant nonsense, it's a matter of Craigboy has nowhere sensible to turn to for advice, he's been clearly and comprehensively outvoted on images in Science and technology in the peoples republic of China, Chinese space station, and putting detail on APAS into the China section of the ISS article. WDGraham and Ckatz, multi-editor ownership of the ISS eng variant, set the worst possible example of how to ignore other editors, and lots of them, trying to make out that any archived consensus no longer exists. So Craigboy gets confused and kind of edit wars, often to 5RR before I give him a minnow and say, hey, slow down friend, lets talk, and people help, and the discussion is archived and it starts over again. I've done whatever I can, other editors on the Science and technology in the peoples republic of China and the Chinese space station have done what they can, so what point in grumbling that you can't change consensus ? He's just looking for other wowsers to grumble along with him, and he finds them. WDGraham of course, James, who is the admin and largest contributor to the ISS article, he doesn't like me, but he is a good admin at least, never abusing his admin tools, but he does frown and pout about his major work the ISS article, it went to FA a few years back and then without any maintaining it on his part because he was busy in med school and the army, the article rotted away on currency, to my, Craigboys and a lot of other editors frustration he kept using rollback to own his old version of the article, which just brought back all the fetid rotten currency issues. He doesn't have the desire or the spare time to help bring it to FA, and because FA status was always used as a stick to beat me with by WP:OWNership "oh don't do whatever it is we haven't read about to the article it's FA and we will go on ignoring anything you propose to fix anything, talk to the hand" then I have little desire to enable further WP:BITEing of new editors who turn up. The article was such a stinking mess that I just brought it to FAR and said here, what do you guys think, and it was a slam dunk in my favor, and an end to all the ownership comments on content, oh sweet jesus that was a relief) So the article doesn't go back to FA, so he's miserable and doesn't want to help fix it. The idea I wrecked it is ridiculous, in the words of other editors it read like a "NASA brochure" and Brad said if he was voting back then, it never would have made it to FA in the first place. Apparently this is all supposed to be my problem, I try to help snap him out of it, with no success. User:PALZ9000 tries to rescue the miserable mood with a bit of humour, suggesting on one hand I should be done away with HAL9000 space odessy style, and that some catchphrase for the grumblers association is required, I would suggest they should go with "Con-sen-SUS is not for US, Con-sen-SUS is not for US" see how it rhymes ? the whole thing with the US, yeah, anyway, then Bushranger turns up with a fair point that comedy is not written into policy, (same as April fools really). He goes on to say I should listen to the grumblers, and I'm like, well go on, I'm all ears, what should I do ? (and I put this question to all of you, what should I do about the grumbler brigade ?) anyhow as soon as I ask bushranger for specifics he suddenly wants to run off and find something else to do, (tail between his legs I wouldn't be surprised, the only alternative is he's just doing a drive-by hit at me) then N2e comes on board with the corker of the month "However, I will say that the summary of the situation by the first several commenters on this topic (Craigboy, PALZ9000, W. D. Graham, Salopian James, and Bushranger), and their analysis of the problem, matches my own observations on a number of space related articles over a number of months." How can you agree with a bot who only wants to kill me, or come up with a catchy phrase for the witchhunt, unless of course you admit that you are not interested in doing anything other than grumble, and I have no idea what N2e is grumbling over, and if he doesn't want to say what it is, how is anyone going to help him ? If people want to claim PALZ cracking jokes is tricking N2e into thinking he is a real editor, then N2e will have to take responsibility for agreeing with the call by PALZ for me to be killed. So he has to admit, or hold his peace, when I say he has not read or understood the comment that he is pointing to and agreeing with. Just the same way as Hipocrite is pointing to the same broken ass conversation, he can either admit that he has jumped onto the personal prejudice bandwagon of unsubstantiated drivel and grumbling, or he too is joining N2e and PALZ9000's calls for me to be killed. All rather dramatic, yes you are right, but the only other option is for them to admit they are making flat out baseless allegations trying to pretend that there is any valid criticism of me when blatantly, and rather comically, there isn't. It's like Avanu observes on my talkpage, they rush in where angels like Pesky would fear to tread. If you don't want to examine a conversation in depth, or make a decent investigation into the problems, then don't bother pointing to them because you'll end with your foot in mouth at best, or, be one of the demagogues that are destroying wikipedia, one good editor at a time. So I say it again, Hipocrite should be rebuked for his driveby calls for predjudice against me, or sanctioned for the more outrageous charge of supporting calls for my murder. One is serious, one is I admit melodramatic or, as some observers put it, amusing.
So hypocrite says You are not taking valid criticisms onboard. No one paid any attention to what your bot said, except to note that using your bot to say it was not appropriate. No one is suggesting that you be killed. You must stop sockpuppeting, and you must stop vandalizing, now.
So put up, put your money where your mouth is and cough up these "valid criticisms"
"No one paid any attention to what your bot said," read the conversation you are referring to, rather than step one, open mouth, step two, insert foot.
"No one is suggesting that you be killed." PALZ9000 is, and N2e appears to be supporting something he has said.
"You must stop sockpuppeting" you must read SOCK LEGIT POLICY this is a procedural warning don't accuse me of socking unless you intend to back it up with evidence.
"vandalizing" that is an overt personal attack. Back it up. This is a procedural warning, don't accuse me of vandalism unless you want to point directly to it. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 5 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Pen, get some intelligent backing and input, and take stuff like this to WP:DRN and / or RfC; take (heavy-duty) personal attacks which can't be explained by Hanlon's razor, and real WP:TE and WP:OWN issues to someone level-headed and clear-sighted like Worm, or Floq, or Ched, or one of many, many other real Good Egg admins here. Or, as you did, to FAR or GAR as applicable. You're not alone. The real intelligent people will be able to see where The Truth™ lies. As for the folks who fall on the non-malicious side of Hanlon's razor, their opinions and misunderstandings and lack of insight are not really worth wasting much of your brainspace on. Ignore them, or rebuff gently and walk away. Clever people recognise the idiots for what they are; they don;t count for much once you get IntelliSmart folks looking. Pesky (talk) 09:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
well I can try I guess, don't bother recommending that first admin to me for anything at all, but I otherwise will take your advice, I guess starting with the most pressing issue, which is another editor who is being abused, long running and ongoing. I'll ask them for assistance. Penyulap ☏ 23:37, 6 Jul 2012 (UTC)
On the ISS talkpage Ckatz from his first edit, long before my time, has been pushing an arbitrary decision over an editor consensus, with no relevant exclusion for the issue. He's been abusing WDGraham, because WD can't see other editors on the page who disagree with him due to his defensive nature. Ckatz games the system by handing out partisan "advice", enabling WD to the level of disruption. It confuses many of the editors, who take the examples set and apply them elsewhere. On one hand, it's arbcom, on the other hand, you need examples a monkey can understand and good gamers are good at it. Penyulap ☏ 23:37, 6 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I think Penyulap is just winding the admins up. For reasons known only to him, my impression is that this so-called vandal sock is really just a test of Wikipedia's administrators and system for dealing fairly with people who don't act 100% compliant. I actually find it somewhat entertaining in a way. I certainly don't see it necessarily solving anything. I think there is a culture here that is set in its ways and speaks its own jargon. I believe it is entirely possible for something fairly trivial to be punished out of line with its severity, simply because someone said it wasn't fairly trivial. The somewhat comical thing to me, is that if he is actually just winding you up, you played right into it.
Onoes! You hit my OCD button! I gotta know the reason for the full stop!
Anyways, I'm not a Nadmin, and Pen has never wound me up yet. Maybe being a non-admin makes me immune. I agree totally with you on the thing about stuff being punished out of line with its severity. (Two metasyntactic variables there [Pesky quotes Gaspode], but you know what I mean.) There seems to be a nasty, punitive, vindictive streak rearing its ugly head in the 'pedia; this is not what we're supposed to be about. Pesky (talk) 16:00, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I filed the sockpuppet report. In it, I said I did not want to have Penyulap blocked but I did want to have the socks blocked. I still think that a humorous sock should not make disruptive changes to the wiki, just humorous remarks. Maybe it's just me, but I can imagine someone making humorous remarks under their primary account. Outrageous, that. I guess you can say I wanted to signal to Penyulap that actual disruption with redirects to real articles and such like is not going to fly. Even adding an unneeded space to an article is disruptive in its way. Save it for talk pages, please. Binksternet (talk) 23:06, 3 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'd really appreciate it (and I expect quite a few other editors would, too! ;P) if you could stick to the following version of Pesky's Rules™:
Do's
Be gentle with people, even if you don't like them or what they're doing
Go out of your way to be very understanding and patient; not everyone can see things with microscopic clarity and at warp-speed functioning (and they can't help that)
Be a good leader; set a good example
Don'ts
Destruct-test the boundaries
Make snarky remarks, even if you think they're very funny and well-worded
Oh Auntie, that last request is the one that reaches right inside me, right to the heart, I never want to let you down, ever.
For the others I agree, but at all times I must act with absolute integrity, that is the one thing that cannot be changed or compromised. If I do not walk straight through the bullets to protect the project, I cannot ask anyone else to take even the smallest risk at all. I am not a hypocrite and I refuse to act like one. I must set, or even create, the good example.
If I am getting blocked because I am doing the wrong thing, then I shouldn't continue, it's as simple as that, and if nobody wants to help make a change, there is no reason to bother. I cannot do it all by myself. Penyulap ☏ 12:53, 4 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Awww, I know that feeling so well! It's not a question of "shouldn't continue". It's just a question of looking at alternative strategies. A poor strategy is (by definition) poor – but if it's the only one you have, that's the one you use. Now, here's a bit of magic for you, which is well within your capabilities. You have one of the most outstanding creative minds I've ever encountered. Are you aware of the thought-tool which views the functioning of the mind as the Office Boy (that's your conscious, internally-verbalised thought processes) and The Committee (that's all the other stuff which goes on in the background which we're generally unaware of)? Consider it. The Office Boy doesn't need to know all the ins and outs of the management of the entire structure. He carries messages about and stuff like that. The Committee (and everyone's "committee" has a different structure) does a mass of stuff which never overtly impinges on the Office Boy's functions. But, heck, do they have some influence! One of the Management Committee members which everyone has is The Creative Director. His job is just to generate ideas. Not to vet them, not to analyse them, not to quality-check them, just to create them. And he can create millions in such small spaces of time that you wouldn't believe it. Another vital Committee Member is the Devil's Advocate. He's the guy that challenges everything. That's his job. He's the guy who challenges the rest of the Committee to perform at its best. Categorise them any way you like; you have as many of them as you need.
Here's the magic. Before you go to sleep, you (the Office Boy) task the Committee to take on board all the experiences of the day, add them into the melting pot with all the experiences of your life, and generate alternative strategies. (Actually, you can task them to do pretty much anything at all which won't jeopardise your safety, mental, emotional or physical.) More often than not, the Office Boy won;t even be aware of all the hundreds of different strategies that have been looked at. You won;t even know what they are until you get into more advanced work and start demanding a few explanations. But you will find that they've suddenly been added to your repertoire for trial.
No, you can't do it all on your own, and you shouldn't try to. You'll burn out – and then what good are you to any of us? Read up on (and hand to the Committee) a heap of stuff about prioritising, delegating, team-leadership, team-membership, sustainability of effort, production-control, pacing yourself ... and make the best possible use of all of it. By this time next week your Creative Director will most likely have presented to The Committee a million or more possible sustainable and ethical strategies for vetting and consideration. Several thousand within 24 hours. And the Office Boy doesn't have to think of them at all – just to take on board the contents of the memo when it's circulated. Pesky (talk) 04:45, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Adding: Here's a dead-simple thing to add into the mix for the Quality Assurance Director to take on board. Ask yourself, every time (and this will become lightning-fast and unconscious with practice): "Would Pesky say that to someone?" If the answer is "No," then don't you say it either. It's not perfect, because I'm far from perfect. But it's a start. Pesky (talk) 04:53, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pesky, we are different people, you are the Oracle from the matrix, you can see who is good and who is bad. You are the one in charge of choosing admins on the website for which wikipedia is the hell. You look at each person, give them the cookie, have a look at them up and down and you know all there is to know of that person.
The goings on here on wikipedia are all moot. Penyulap ☏ 05:01, 5 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Hehe! No, I'm no kind of superhuman oracle! And I make mistakes, plenty of them. Thing is, we should never try to react to people on any kind of basis of whether they're "good" or "bad". We should try to treat everyone kindly. If you have a truly vicious animal, you can have it put to sleep, but it's incredibly wrong to torture it. That's just wrong. You have it put to sleep humanely. Inflicting pain in vengeance is barbaric. Pain as an education tool is similarly primitive. These are basics, and if we can't live up to them all the time, we should at least constantly strive to resist the temptation to hurt. Pesky (talk) 06:34, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
But I'm here to help people what can I do when tedious vicious people wander about looking for people to abuse, and I happen to notice there is very little else they enjoy more than walking about with their foot in their mouth ? I mean, they like it that way, they don't take it out, and there are quite a few like this, they come and ask me to respond to the nasty insults they come up with, and pose that foot right there, just touching the lip, just needs the tiniest little bit of assistance and what can I do ? they give me insults, I return the favour with the help they are after in a much kinder fashion by comparison, which, consequently, everyone seems happy with. Of course, people don't admit to things on wikipedia, the culture is dishonesty. Andy shows what using the dictionary and honesty gets you, and he doesn't even tell jokes, he is nice to me, and polite, and I'm sure he looks upon the added fuss I produce in the educational department as something else that is filling up Richards server space, he'd look at me and not so much laugh, or dislike, but I bet you $50 right here and right now he has a Grumpy look on his face over my work (allowing 10 seconds maximum for him to suppress a smirk, well, ok 5, on account of experience, actually, come to think of it maybe not at all, I should ask him). And even when I use nice proper language and concepts and do not put their foot in their mouth for them, they don't listen. They just do not listen. Not to a word. Not one word. Nobody else will help them, I can point to policy till I am blue in the face in that SPI (SPI, LOL, like you can't spot me from Low Earth Orbit, who else dresses like a pimp before they sit down at the computer to type ?) and pointing to policy like sock legit is just (facepalm) and the thing is, everyone knows what is proper, and they just let him go on embarrassing himself. I think they do it to bait me really. Or I dunno, maybe it's just meanness that they don't help him. whatever. (btw, I lied, I don't dress like a pimp before sitting down at the computer, for me, that would be especially difficult, but my gosh, everyone would be like "I bet he/she does too, I just knew it !") Penyulap ☏ 06:56, 5 Jul 2012 (UTC)
This is not to let the bad guys win by descending to their level. Don't return snark for snark. Don't return snap for poke. You can just sidestep them; sooner or later someone will pick up on it. If you rise to their bait, you're playing into their hands. Pesky (talk) 12:28, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It's more a matter of not letting things go unanswered, which has the effect of simply encouraging their abuse. If admins want to gang up on me with wrist slapping comments, then they can have a more civil offer of assistance in return, even if some consider it two cheeky Penyulap ☏ 19:58, 7 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap. Can you please indicate here, right now, all accounts that you have access to or control. These may be accounts for humour, bots, primary accounts or general accounts. You may email them to me if you prefer. WormTT(talk) 07:56, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, for all my posing I simply haven't been at all prolific, because my artistic skills are only just, in the last few months becoming good enough to want to sock, for the reasons given.
Naturally there is PALZ, and Thomas, there are other IP's used when traveling, and often I sign my name to them, but as for signup's I don't recall making any others, I've checked firefox's saved passwords and can't see anything, and it goes back a long way. I started editing with this account, and if you see edits you're not sure of, just ask, because I'm happy to confess to whatever is, or could be, me. On Auntie Pesky's page I asked a friend in Malaysia to post a comment, and I think I used a public IP one time to post a neutral comment in the eng:var war on the ISS page. One thing you'll never have found me doing is voting or anything along those lines with a sock, if you find such a thing, I'll pre-emptively deny any involvement there, it's just not me. I can't recall if there may have been a similar demonstration somewhere the same as Pesky's page, I think there was, I'll have to remember for you, wait, actually I do recall, I was pointing to something, actually that one I'd like to be confidential with, however it's of no significance as far as community standards go, it was just contacting someone anonymously, and not for any bad purpose at all either. (you can ask him, actually, he knows it was me too, as I told him in email pretty much straight away). I'm pretty lame when it comes to socking, or vandalism, but hey, I cannot prove beyond doubt that my humor is completely lame, there is that to be said for me :D huh??, huh ?? Penyulap ☏ 08:27, 6 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Bullshit. Next twit who runs out of excuses for being wrong in some discussion with me will resort to name calling, and the chances of being called a sock will be inversely proportional to the size of their imagination. Penyulap ☏ 08:48, 6 Jul 2012 (UTC)
By the way, you turned down the unblock request made for the redirect, which it now appears was on google for 4 days running or so before I happened upon it, why was that ? Penyulap ☏ 09:24, 6 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I turned it down because the redirect did not appear reasonable - but more importantly, your unblock request did not address the reasons for the block. WormTT(talk) 09:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Worm and Pen, you're both people for whom I have a lot of respect and affection. If you two can work together on stuff, amazing things will happen. I'd like to buy you both a beer (or other acceptable beverage of your respective choices). Pesky (talk) 09:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Well, considering that I have been completely cleared, and the name was in the article for a long time, and the redirect was blatantly obvious, then clearly your 'reasoning' is an Epic fail. You haven't addressed the facts of the case.
Your judgment in my opinion so far is completely worthless, to be questioned always, and I have no faith whatsoever in you. You can't be trusted and I despise you, but on the bright side, I don't actually waste any significant effort on such people, as my friends and strangers deserve it more. That's where my effort goes.
Sorry Pesky, letting everyone down like that is something unforgivable. Penyulap ☏ 09:45, 6 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Pen, you owe Worm a sincere and grovelling apology, not me. Seriously. Worm's a Good Egg in many ways (too many to count). I'm not sure whether something in Real Life™ might be having an effect on you; I wouldn't actually be surprised. You seem to have become so much more bitey and jumpy and reactive recently, and it's spilling over in ways which it wouldn't have done a short while ago. I know that the space stuff seriously wound you up (and you were vindicated at the FAR, which was great). But please don't let me down any more; get a muzzle and lead for your Internal Fire-Breathing Dragon until he's learned "Sit, stay, and quiet!" Pesky (talk) 17:18, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pesky I think your not reading me correctly here, there is Zero upset, zero emotion, or extremely little of each if any at all, and it's just opinion rather than wp:pa. The RL judgment call has been made here, and I do not go back on my words unless I am wrong, I have no time or effort or emotion to spend on people who have absolutely no regard for justice, innocence or human decency and certainly not when they take up the official position of judging other people and imposing their failed judgments upon them. That said, I am always supportive of my friends choosing their own friends, and you are most welcome to spend all the time you like on him/her, and good luck to you. I continue as always to have respect for you which is second to none. You can tell me don't edit this or don't edit that, or stop right there and so on, but you can't turn around right and wrong or compromise my integrity. Unless you were telling me that he/she has brain damage or some such, then it's not possible to change the equation and convince me otherwise. An Epic Fail is an Epic Fail, and not addressing the evidence against an accused during an appeal and sidestepping it for BS is not on. Penyulap ☏ 17:42, 6 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, don't worry. I don't look for apologies. I don't expect Pen to be happy with me or anything. It really is fine for him to have a low opinion of me. WormTT(talk) 19:04, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Worm is one of the good guys. If he made a mistake here, either in action, reasoning or the way he explained it, it is somewhat unusual. RichFarmbrough, 01:20, 9 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Hey Penyulap. OK .. after a couple hours reading this morning of the ISS (space station) article, it's history, it's current talk page, and several editors talk pages - What are your questions? Is there a particular post, thread, or incident that you'd like me to comment on? In general, I'd say it is indeed a very complex matter as a whole, so I'm not sure what I can do to help. Let me know. :-) — Ched : ? 15:29, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well the primary concern is the template that states the matter of British vs American is settled at the top of the talkpage, and the associated British English variant notice, both of which are used to claim multi-editor ownership of the article and talkpage by the pro-British editors. The proper way in my opinion to repair the damage done is to remove both, so they can all have themselves a little !vote on the issue in the absence of the stolen status quo, as they had begun to do three, or was it four, years ago. That way everyone would be a lot happier with the whole thing, not perfectly happy of course, but a lot happier than they are now. As it is now they are looking at a 'rigged election' where the status quo !votes which probably would have been !American votes got flipped around into !British.
If they have themselves a little vote, regardless of the outcome, they'd be happier, even if it stayed British, everyone would have had their say, or the chance to have their say in a fair manner, and just like the democracies that most editors live in, that's pretty much what keeps them quite and content-ish. At the moment it's a monument, so I'm basically after a smaller monument, like one of those little dog monuments that have shiny brass noses where people have rubbed it for luck, rather than the monument it is now with three car-parking levels, a mall, 4 bell-towers and it's own subway station.
Any fair vote could only be held in the absence of the stolen status quo votes, or if it was entirely necessary, they could have themselves a pointless argument vote over the pre-existing variant of the article, which would also be just fine, because at least that too, would give everyone a fair say before being overruled by being outvoted.
I don't mind who gives advice there, so long as it counters the partisanship of Ckatz, James won't point out what he is doing is wrong, but at least doesn't go anywhere at all towards misbehaving. James is fair, even if he'd rather see me out of here or whatever. I would return the uninvolved help template myself, which nobody in their right mind would suggest that I'm not entitled to do, but I don't want to inflame the situation by doing it more often than is necessary. If there is nothing to counter the ownership claims on the talkpage, then up will go the uninvolved template until such time as an uninvolved voice talks some sense on the matter. I don't care who it is, but tying up the votes back to front has to be addressed, rather than pointed to as the 'matter has been settled' and 'consensus' according to the template at the top of the page. Penyulap ☏ 19:50, 7 Jul 2012 (UTC)
The closest that it's come to that was the original one that James opened 3 or 4 years ago, goto the iss talkpage and click the first link you come to, where I point out the poll was changed from brit->american or the other way around. It was at that point in time, when the status quo votes were hijacked by the British side that two distinct groups became upset. One, naturally is the American side, the other group, which I fall into, is the WP process needs to be respected faction. Basically my standpoint is that because the status quo votes were hijacked you have an incumbent illegitimate faction owning the page, you have to remove it in order to hold fresh elections, otherwise the status quo which was hijacked in the first place is still in fact hijacked so you get yet another illegitimate faction owning the page. The page would quite possibly remain British if a RfC were held, however the incumbency is too defensive to support establishing a consensus for their illegitimate position.
The difference is significant, because the ENG VAR template is being used to own the page, however, if it were removed and then had a consensus established for it, it could be returned to the page as simply an ENG VAR template indicating the established consensus. Penyulap ☏ 21:50, 8 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Well if it's been that long, perhaps a new RfC would help. Although, I know some folks get a bit "Not again, we've been over this 1,000 times" attitudes on some pages. Even though WP:CCC indicates nothing is set in stone. I'll have a read through the archives over the next couple days. — Ched : ? 07:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well the one thing that is of primary importance is the separation of the two issues. If status quo counts for anything, then there'd be continuing, and justified, discontent amongst some of the editors. The variant is irrelevant, how it is chosen is irrelevant, but allowing everyone to have an equal say is the absolutely crucial act which will allow everyone to feel welcome there once more. If a RFC is dominated by a faction using stolen status quo to pick up all the 'I don't care about the variant' kind of !votes, then the many who were upset will have precisely the same justification for feeling upset as they did before. Not addressing the underlying issue would render the entire process futile and pointless. Removing the stolen status quo, having a RFC and returning the British template to the page would solve the issue properly, strange though it may seem. No quick reply is needed here, please take your time, RL issues are pressing in on me, I don't know what time if any I shall have in the near future. Penyulap ☏ 09:39, 9 Jul 2012 (UTC)
somewhere between professor X first class, the locksmith who allows moving the radio telescope, and the kitchen light at 3am, good qualities for a big fat head to have. I found the top shelf with that dilemma of mine too, but it doesn't change the math. Penyulap ☏ 01:26, 9 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on User:ThomasMoore1852. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
Following from the brief discussion on the village pump last month I wanted to inform you about a proposal I have made. Although not all participants of that discussion were fans of the small format, one of the main criticisms put forward was the lack of consistency in current usage. My proposal may help improve this. We could also continue discussion on adjusting the styling of these boxes. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:15, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I support you. I'm wondering about the discussion regarding user page redirects. Should I assume that if it turns into a policy against redirects used that way that you will be fine with that? You don't anticipate making a point over it either way, do you? I'm not trying to antagonize you. I wanted the discussion to peter out in your favor. NewtonGeek (talk) 12:49, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't particularly care which way it goes, the redirect is simply economy of effort. Cut'n'Paste is almost as fast a way to produce the identical effect, but what is more important are the side effects of the discussion. It overturns existing widespread policy and practice by using my own persona to do so, which is all cool, it's an unimportant policy. The people who use redirects are often some of the most experienced editors that we have, and whether the policy is overturned in the laughable 4 hours for a RfC, Zomg, that makes me laugh, or if it's overturned because it wasn't advertised properly, either way experienced editors will sigh at the pointlessness of it. My own more important illustration is this creep bullshit. It is inevitable that as wikipedia ages and fills up with people completely lacking in a shred of commonsense, that Dennis relying on people to have commonsense, which is proper in the real world, just won't work here because nobody on here CAN be forced to use commonsense. Oh sure, knee jerk ban the people who don't use commonsense, except it is the admins doing it as much as anyone else, so that doesn't work. Basically, we now have a stupid catch-22, editors (no small percentage of which are my groupies) want to overturn existing widespread policy and practice, that's fine, but they also want to do the idiotic thing whereby they do not want to tell anyone by putting it onto the policy page. So the edit warring over my userpage hasn't been resolved at all, at all, it's still going to happen anywhere and everywhere because their little so called consensus is pointless. It's not on the page, so it does not exist. This is my point, that Chinese whispers and passing so called policy from person to person all ends in tears. Dennis is a brilliant editor who I trust and is almost always right, but like me, he runs into trouble through high expectations. He has to lower his expectations of the projects editors and recognise that if it's not written in policy pages, it just doesn't exist and people will war over it, because asking them to use commonsense is asking too much. Penyulap ☏ 13:08, 12 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I see the sense in that.
Hello, Penyulap/Archives. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Look the reason I discourage email exchange when screening fails is not because I can't create a separate email address for each person or group who I give my email address to, so that I can tell precisely who has given out my email address, obviously I can. It's simply encouraging that sort of thing, so endless fishing doesn't work. I would suggest simply to point to an original account and the problem is solved, but if you want a disposable address, I guess I can give you one, that's I guess a simple quick solution all things considered. Penyulap ☏ 13:41, 12 Jul 2012 (UTC)
The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "The Beatles". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 20 July 2012.
Even though many editors are ok and I could do the email thing, I am lazy, so I'll just write here sometimes if it is enough, unless I'm asked otherwise.
to the Lass in the cape, Thank you.
to the editor whose name is owned, I was aware of that one (and appreciate it every bit as much just the same), I included it in my recent work, as you'd see from my contributions, it stands out.
I like your way of handling these things. I think you are smart and respectful. I wonder if you may have a growing fan club. I'd be your on-wiki friend, but I think it's against wiki-rules. I think we're all supposed to be emotionless and independent. ;) You seem to realize we're all in this together and I respect that. NewtonGeek (talk) 12:49, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone can be my on-wiki friend if they want to, it's a lot easier than being my off-wiki friend let me tell you. There is the whole finding me thing you see, just ask 6 Billion people one at a time if they are penyulap, and by the third time you've asked me, I'll tell you.
That said, there are no secrets on the Internet. Penyulap ☏ 13:15, 13 Jul 2012 (UTC)
No, Penyulap is not a personal name, it's a noun, it means 'magician' or 'wizard', (it's Indonesian, and google translate is pretty insulting as usual, it means all your magics are belong to me from Pen, a prefix meaning I owns your ass, and sulap). On INeverCry's userpage, I am the Wizard that raised Thomas from the dead, to present the award, go have a read, I like it if I do say so myself. Penyulap ☏ 02:05, 14 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I'd read it but never realized your name meant wizard. I Pen Indonesian or only sulap? I'm not a good internet meme recognizer. NewtonGeek (talk) 02:31, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pen is just a prefix that means to keep or to own, it doesn't mean to Pwn in the internet meme kind of way, it's just how I describe the meaning of the prefix 'pen' in Bahasa that's all. A street legal definition :D sulap means magic, google would probably give that up easy as it comes across it more often. If everyone goes to google translate and teach it that Penyulap means 'Jackass' I'd appreciate that a lot. It's an easy task as it clearly doesn't have many teachers at the moment for penyulap and that is why it is getting it so terribly wrong describing me as a juggler instead. Whatever, can't trust machines. Penyulap ☏ 02:42, 14 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I attempted to save the history lost by reverting the bot. It appeared to work after several stacked attempts but the restored page was there and then not, and then there again, for me??? Maybe caching in my browser??? Weird. Anyway somebody needs to clean ip a glitch there. You looked technical. LOL 99.251.125.65 (talk) 15:44, 13 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
start a new section on the ANI page itself, outlining the problem, and it will be fixed faster, I haven't been following it as closely as it seems, but yes, you do the right thing by asking. Just open a new section there on the ANI page. Unless it is fixed already, sorry I got your note late. Penyulap ☏ 01:12, 14 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Thanks but no thanks! ANI is nothing but a joke and an invitation for a bunch of hyenas to demonstrate their best childish fist slamming and feet kicking against every word you have evr posted. I can't believe the admins sit on their hands and play with themselves. I have been approached many times to get a user name. I get free examples of why not everytime I visit. I need a vacation. Wait! I am leaving for one this afternoon! There is a God Lennon! BTW: I attended a Beatles tribute band concert on Monday night. Did they ever suck! I won't mention their FabFour name. LOL Try to stay out of trouble. 99.251.125.65 (talk) 13:36, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You've given me a good hearty laugh as I read all of that, initially I was just talking about the archiving was all, to get help fixing it, but wow, yes it is precisely like that at ANI on most days. I do not blame you one little bit for not wanting a username, everyday I ask myself why do I bother trying to help here, it is so totally hopeless, then I remember I can't exactly walk outside so I'm stuck, and I don't have the short attention span required for twitter. Beatles tribute ? zomg, of course they'd suck. Maybe people should never ever present themselves as the real thing they should only ever present themselves as fans celebrating in tribute to the real thing. There are some pretty good bands out there who are not attempting to copycat the Beatles, but follow their design, whether by intention or accident, they do a good job of it too, at least I like their style. Try these guys on for size, I know they are singing in a language you won't understand, but hey, the attitude is so totally outrageous. They are BIG same as the boys were. Beatles might be dead, but their haircuts and attitudes live on, reincarnated, woven into all of us. I know you may not like other languages, but music is universal, I think if you have a look around their work, they may well grow on you, either way, they are better than the band you just saw. Penyulap ☏ 14:54, 19 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Yes, ok, maybe the guy is more Mick Jagger in that one, ok, poor example, but if you look around you may see what I was trying to get at. Penyulap ☏ 15:04, 19 Jul 2012 (UTC)
It's confusing to have the same poll open at the same time in two places. As for it being policy or some such I have no idea, you can re-open it and find out, someone will probably find something or other to say so as they close it again. Of course that person might be huff and puff and gruff too, whereas I'm just someone you can push around and be friendly with, but do as you want to, read docs, open it again, or ask about as a fast track to finding out, whichever you prefer. But as for me, I don't know, intuition is often my guide. Penyulap ☏ 01:09, 14 Jul 2012 (UTC)
That is perfectly ok with me, I won't complain at all because as I said, I have no idea on the policy. I'll just wish you luck with that one, still, to be wise, ask yourself why you want two polls at once and will it confuse the issue. Penyulap ☏ 01:31, 14 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Isn't this simply a matter of main article and sub-article ? that being the case, and the question being identical, it's the same poll for the same set of articles on the same subject. Whether it is on the main article's talkpage or the sub-article talkpage where it's a little bit quieter is not a significant difference. You'll just annoy people I expect. Just put a note in mentioning which articles you would like the poll to apply to if you feel it requires it, or raise the question on the talkpage now, and see what you get in the way of interest in that subject. I'd say such closely related articles will have most editors wanting the consensus to apply to both, and be annoyed at being asked to vote twice, but if that is not the case, then yes, have two polls. Penyulap ☏ 01:52, 14 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Look at it this way, I just pushed McCartney though FAC with lower-case "t"s, so if the current "consensus" (improperly applied) at the Beatles holds for Macca, then every FAC reviewer missed that one. ~ GabeMc(talk|contribs)01:55, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I get the FA thing quite a lot, thing is, you can wheel a barrow full of turds through the FA process, and it makes no difference to the fact that FA is not a destination, it's the second rung up from the bottom of the ladder. Penyulap ☏ 02:03, 14 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I don't have any 'serious' or 'humour' accounts. I had an account which I had not used since january, and I tried to use it again in march, when the password was not accepted. So I made this with the name Monareal, and renamed it as Mir Almaat 1 S1 in May.Mir Almaat Ali Almaat ☏ From Trivandrum, Kerala, India(UTC+5:30) 05:05, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have been watching the heated discussion for quite a while, but due to my real life commitments I really don't have time to participate. However your "attitude" has caught my attention, because it rang a bell on somebody that I know of.
Yeah, somehow your "stubbornness", your tendency to use words that "overstates the facts" (and let others to mistaken your words for personal attacks or trolling), your broad knowledge, your frequent use of ironies, and the failure of both sides to resolve any discrepancy, has shown up thousands of miles away - in my daily life (although it seems your case might be a bit more serious).
In my case, I was actually diagnosed with this, and one of its major effects is difficulty in social interaction, particularly due to the different way of communication. Such is the case for me during my whole life, and it seems that it is the case here too, with you and the other editors talking past each other. Unfortunately, such things can easily turn into a full-blown war if not dealt with properly, as with this case for over a year.
I would like to urge every editor dealing with Penyulap to understand that while his words might seems to be trolling and/or constantly attacking, his acts are of good faith, and the reason for using the words are from a kind of dis-order that he currently have. His words should NOT be taken with any assumption that he is acting under animosity, especially if he seems to be doing personal attacks.
On the other hand, I would suggest you to take every part of articles that you find problems to discussion, before doing any editing, and tone down your words during discussion. This will help to close down the "communication gap" and help you to become accepted as a worthwhile editor at Wikipedia, without the need for any "moderation" from other editors here.
I hope that this can help you (not only on Wikipedia, but also in your interaction in daily life if I'm not mistaken) and others to understand what is going on with this user for the past 12 months, and I am confident that with some help from those who understands the situation, the "problems" with this user can be resolved. =)
I would like to offer me to help "moderating" any discussions on article and discussion issues, so feel free to ask me for help if you have difficulties while dealing with other editors.
Hope this helps. =)
P.S. I wonder how old you are, and if you have have any problems dealing with your peers? I have been facing the same problem since I was born.
Well, it is a very interesting idea straight off, and it fascinates me to have a good read, they say that when you read a medical book you end up feeling sick because all of the symptoms suit you, it's like yes, yes, that is so true I have malaria now that I have read the entry on the malaria symptoms :) btw, I am very happy that you don't mind talking about it, I like frank discussions.
I've never had a diagnosis along those lines however, and there is one thing which I spotted straight off in the article, and let me quote it, "The lack of demonstrated empathy is possibly the most dysfunctional aspect of Asperger syndrome" which kind of makes me feel a bit left out because I'm an empath of the highest order, that's no secret and Pesky would say as much. That said I do have my limitations, if you could compute every possible situation and every possible outcome, there is the conclusion that you could solve every possible disagreement, but I can only solve some, much to my dissatisfaction. But on the bright side I have abilities to detect peoples intentions at a frightening speed, so that I can 'bet the farm' every time and come up a winner, people are frieghtened by that because they think that just because I see that they have evil intentions that I would judge them for it, which is almost never true, it is said that there are no bad people, only bad circumstances, and that is a rule to live by almost always. I find it amusing that I can instantly spot socks that are supposed to annoy me but fall flat, and that I have never given an award away to a sock, but the reverse is not true. Took me seconds flat to screen INeverCry as genuine and truthful, I was proud of that, but I get frustrated how other people are slow to see the clear signs which I see, it can be incredibly alarming to have to sit and watch the damage get done.
I would say that I don't have problems with peers in any great way, I do shit people to tears when they are stubbornly denying their shortcomings however, and I do care more about including everyone than other people do, but on the whole I am just fine at making and keeping friends, and if I think about it, they usually, or maybe almost always, have exceptional talents and gifts, I couldn't really think of any of my close friends as being 'ordinary' amongst their peers, but I do have like, 'medium friends' that are rather ordinary (no offence to them) :). I figure that being able to clearly understand unusual or extraordinary genius could be from the empathy, where other people can't understand, I often do naturally. But trying to get, say, bot policy fixed properly just falls on deaf ears. I think that my medical conditions do impose great restrictions on RL opportunities, that is certain, but those conditions I can't say if they are really related. Asperger's hasn't been mentioned before, but like Auntie says we are all on a 'scale' for many things, so where you face difficulties interacting with other people and fight against their ignorance, so do I, and that is where we understand each other clearly I think.
I do enjoy helping people, and in RL it is a great deal easier, as there are more skills and abilities I can use to help them, but here, your limited to the keyboard, mouse, mic and cam. I find the silliest thing is people trying to vote each other off the island, followed by the next silliest thing which is believing this works in their favour.
Anyhow, when you do have time, I would like your assistance whenever you can give it. There is work to be done getting people to shake hands and agree to work together, and, as the project is so very badly flawed in it's design, there are new squabbles daily to sort out. So if you can help translate so that people don't talk past each other, that would be brilliant. I look forward to that. Penyulap ☏ 05:45, 15 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Pen, your test results put you darned close to where I am (and also where a number of outstanding editors and admins are, too). Galactic Penguin, feel free to come over to my talk page whenever you need any enlightened and open-minded assistance! I have a heap of autism-spectrum stalkers there, some of whom are prolific long-term Wikipedians. I'm a high-functioning autistic myself, and have taught I-dunnamany A-spectrum people (as well as neurotypicals and people with different challenges) for decades. I've dropped a (probably tl;dr) comment over on the ISS stage. People really need to stop thinking of A-spectrum people as being thick, sub-standard, disruptive, and all that other stuff, and start to accept the possibility that for some things, we're actually far better than they are. And ... Pen, we always need to remember that neurotypicals just don't have the kind of savant processing skills for factual data that we have. That took me decades to "get". It just seemed like, "How can anyone possibly not remember that? They must remember it, so they're now just lying about it" reaction. And, oh how they hate it when investigation proves that the person they've labelled as "mentally deficient" was actually in the right. It's something they find it really hard to forgive, because it's just made them, in their own eyes, less mentally-capable than the person they've been thinking of as "deficient". :o( High-functioning autism, and other high-functioning areas on the autism spectrum, are not "deficiencies", they're differences. And, compared to A-spectrum people, neurotypicals are highly deficient in some areas. That's just the way it goes. The vast majority of people have a seriously distorted view of what autism-spectrum-stuff really is. They've had their heads stuffed full of mythconceptions (I do like that neologism!) for so long that they're sure they're right about it. For the most part, it's just plain ignorance of the reality, rather than wilful nastiness and discrimination. Pesky (talk) 07:22, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Check this out my galactic friend.
Some researchers have argued that AS can be viewed as a different cognitive style, not a disorder or a disability, and that it should be removed from the standard Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, much as homosexuality was removed. In a 2002 paper, Simon Baron-Cohen wrote of those with AS, "In the social world, there is no great benefit to a precise eye for detail, but in the worlds of maths, computing, cataloguing, music, linguistics, engineering, and science, such an eye for detail can lead to success rather than failure." Baron-Cohen cited two reasons why it might still be useful to consider AS to be a disability: to ensure provision for legally required special support, and to recognize emotional difficulties from reduced empathy. It has been argued that the genes for Asperger's combination of abilities have operated throughout recent human evolution and have made remarkable contributions to human history
yes, I know you have seen it :) but wow, it's like being an X-man, that is so cool. Mine isn't along the AS lines :( it seems more like garden variety savantism, I wonder if that makes me just a human instead of a mutant. Hmm, which side of the coming war am I on ? :) Penyulap ☏ 16:20, 17 Jul 2012 (UTC)
The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning The Beatles, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/The Beatles, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.
As mediation proceedings begin, be aware that formal mediation can only be successful if every participant approaches discussion in a professional and civil way, and is completely prepared to compromise. Please contact the Committee if anything is unclear.
I suppose I should have been more diligent in looking for links and diffs, but they're too detailed to fit in my brain. Anyway, I found this from the 3 July, and it has to be read to see that a certain editor's accusations of me being a big bad wolf seem to be very strange. It's a delightful conversation.--andreasegde (talk) 11:47, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Glad you have found something to keep you busy, idle hands you know :) Keeping FA's small is over-rated from what I hear. My largest contributions have been on the ISS which is unavoidably large, and it can't possibly matter, if I was interested, I think I'd bulk it up a few times over, but I'm kind of less interested in it at the moment. I'm thinking it's easier to work on other websites, after all, google follows the facts people are typing in and searching for, if wiki doesn't cover it, google will direct elsewhere. But it's still interesting to study wikipedia as a cautionary tale and help where I can. Penyulap ☏ 11:57, 16 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Hi Penyulap. I see that you have made comments about harassment on the SPI page. Generally harassment is dealt with in other locations than SPI, which is a place to ascertain whether an editor has broken WP:SOCK. Now, if they're using sockpuppets for harassment, then it's a problem, but I think in this case if there is any harassment, it's seperate from the sockpuppet investigation.
If you would like me to investigate the harassment, please do let me know, with some diffs of harassment. I see from your latest comment on the SPI that you don't think I'm the best person to do it, which is reasonable. However, I should warn you that harassment is a serious allegation, so you should probably either back it up (here, there or at an appropriate venue), or retract it. WormTT(talk) 08:51, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Penyulap, I see you have reinforced the accusation of harassment, again without evidence [10]. Per our policy on harassment, accusations without clear evidence can be considered a personal attack, and combined with the sockpuppet investigation request and the inquistion on the SPI page, could be considered harassment. Consider this a final warning, either provide evidence for the harassment or retract it. Failure to do either (and especially further accusations) could result in you being blocked. WormTT(talk) 07:18, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pen, in order to keep your nose clean, etc., (and using the application of "smart" described elsewhere, lol! ;P) that really does need diffs. I know it might be a pain hunting them all down, but you really need to. Talk-page badgering, wikihounding or stalking, and so on, if it happens, is a form of harassment, but it needs to be demonstrable. Remember, too, that you can always ask another user to stay off your talk page if really necessary. And please do trust Worm! (Or at least trust me when I say that Worm is a Good Egg.) Pesky (talk) 07:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"As an involved admin, I'd suggest the solution is rather easier than it might appear. Block or otherwise limit Penyulap and Andreasegde from participating on Beatles related pages. Tendentious editing is easy enough to spot and the solution is easy as well. It is only made hard when we demand maximal dispute resolution and leeway in situations where that isn't needed. If these were newer editors or the dispute were any less trivial (on face), we would've done this long ago."
I love it, best thing since an editor agreed with my bot that I should be killed on the wikiproject spaceflight page. I like "the peanut gallery" comment too. I just wish nobody pointed it out to them so fast, It's good where these people have their foot in their mouth a little longer if it's clearly not an honest mistake. Penyulap ☏ 01:31, 20 Jul 2012 (UTC)
For being the voice of reason on that thing. Y'know, the one Vinnie and Freddie 'The Hat' were talking about.
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I don't mind giving an opinion, however, given that you've isolated the sample from it's context, that would be very hard to do. Penyulap ☏ 03:17, 21 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I was blocked for this and see no reason to continue with a cloud hanging over my head or confusion over the issue. An apparent third party appeal to the admin here failed, so it's clear I should not continue if that is what everyone wants. If people want to add their names to this table, to show if this block is justified or not, that might change my mind, otherwise, good luck to the lot of you, and happy editing. Penyulap ☏ 12:53, 4 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I'll reply here since I was going to drop you a note anyways. That is a long discussion, and while I admit to not having read it all, it does seem to support your points.
As I said in the spaceflight talk page, I will not be discussing this issue anymore. I want to move on and focus on improving WP.
I always try to be neutral and avoid attacking anyone, but if my comments ever offended you I offer my apologies.
There is two things I'd like to ask of you for the good of the spaceflight project:
Move on. I know you said to WDGraham that you'd not be able to. Please reconsider if he were to offer an olive branch.
Be more specific. I know I've said this before and I know it is not because you can't explain yourself. But I think if you gave more detail on all your comments there would be a lot less editors questioning you.
Two hindrances with 'moving on' 1) there is a template on the talkpage which clearly claims that the matter has been settled where in fact there is no consensus on the matter, that constitutes WP:OWN 2) Other editors are still, after many years, disgusted/upset/staying away from the page as a result, I want those editors to feel welcome to return, and a victory flag claiming ownership is not helping bring harmony. OWNers may well be happy with OWNing the page and claiming victory, the other editors do not see things the same way, they appear upset (name-calling and so on, even after two years).
Yes, you are probably correct, I do need to work out the precise manner in which to diff the problem as people just do not like to read.
In regards to 'it does seem to support your points' I understand you don't care to read the lot, or make further commentary, however would you consider your previous remarks on the spaceflight page in light of your further reading, in particular "Navy Blue claimed Penyulap was the only user who complained about the templates being there. As far as this investigation has been able to determine, that statement was correct." Penyulap ☏ 03:08, 18 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I understand your first point. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do about it. I am one of those editors that stays away from that page, so your point is validated. I frankly don't know what can be done about it. What worries me the most is the fact if a new editor comes along and wants to raise the same questions you did regarding why it is in British, will he be chewed out like you were or will the regulars in that talk page assume good faith? There is so much hostility there it wouldn't surprise me of some accusing a new editor of being a sock puppet.
How long can should the wait be for raising the issue again? I don't know. WP:CCC doesn't specify. I'd give it a couple of months, maybe a year, then ask for support prior to bringing up the issue again. Don't start by bringing up the accusations of the past, that consensus wasn't reached and all that, as that will ignite hostilities again. Rather, start by saying you'd like to either reaffirm the British template or change to American and would like the current opinion of all the editors.
If it were up to me, I'd like to have that done now, but I think things are too hot to reopen that discussion.
As far as the Navy Blue comment. The closed discussion I looked at in the ISS talk page, the one I referred to in my investigation, you were the only one bringing up the point. That was not the case in the reading you gave me, but that was true of that discussion. Reading my comments on the spaceflight talk page again, while I do not directly specify "Navy Blue claimed Penyulap was the only user who complained about the templates being there. As far as this investigation has been able to determine, that statement was correct" was referring to that discussion, I had just mentioned that discussion in the preceding paragraph and I believe it was fairly clear those conclusions were an analysis of that discussion. --WingtipvorteXPTT∅15:56, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well fair enough, if you want to qualify it to just that section ok. I'm looking at it section by section, where there are other editors upset about it in the same section as they are being ignored, as well as editors who have been upset with WDGraham and Ckatz for years, and I mean really upset, with no signs that the issue is forgotten. It's also pretty hard to forget when the template claims it's settled, and the coup is still there.
re-affirming is the obvious solution, however, it can only be done fairly if there is no 'status quo' because the status quo is saying the government which took office by a coup should stay, rather than be elected fair and square. This is the most significant part, voiding the status quo which relies solely upon WDGrahams misbehaviour. If that is done, then sure it can go ahead, British can be kept and all is well (editors can return). Otherwise, it has to goto arbitration, for that 'tying up a consensus back to front is A-OK Arbcom seal of approval.' The flagrant misbehaviour can't continue, it's gone on for years, from long before I came along it's been going on, they can claim I'm the only one all they want, but I wasn't even here. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 19 Jul 2012 (UTC)
So if the issue was brought up again on the ISS talk page and consensus was established one way or another, you'd be willing to move past this issue? Is that the only issue or are there other things you'd like resolved? And if the issue was brought up again, you'd commit to maintaining a civil discussion?
If that is so, and it is the only way we can put the past behind us, I'd be willing to see if others are OK with bringing it up again so soon. If there is a general agreement to bring the issue up again, there would need to be some rules established regarding how we go about the discussion.
You have to be honest with us through, is the Brithish template on the ISS article the only problem or would solving that issue only allow for other lesser issues to be brought up (such as with Craigboy)? --WingtipvorteXPTT∅19:50, 19 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That all sounds practical and proper, I would be quite happy to consider the matter closed under those conditions. As far as I can see, ENG:VAR is the only problem that requires any assistance. Craigboy is a good editor, although he appears, and lets face it, probably is somewhat annoyed with me, we always without fail discuss our disagreements. Now that said, he is one of those people who will not say if he changes his mind, whereas I will say, OK, I was wrong and you are correct, so it's sometimes hard to know how he feels, that said, I'll open up a serious can of whoop-ass on anyone who tries to get him disciplined when he is going 5RR against me (which only ever happens when I am 'enforcing' an existing clear consensus) because he DOES slow down, he does discuss and everything is easily fixed by ourselves. The cause of all that fuss is not Craigboy I surmise, it's the horrid situation of the ISS talkpage and the ENG:VAR issue. WDGraham is setting an example, Ckatz games to back him up on it, and everyone comes away with a false impression that the monument to the failure of the wiki process is actually the way things work. Clear up one and you'd clear up all. Consensus is not swept under the carpet and forgotten once it archives, regardless of what WDGraham and Ckatz claim.
So yes, that is fine, either people can take the long route to deciding the eng:var by first establishing what the article was in prior to the templates insertion, or where and what it was converted to (who knows the size of the discussion there) or the fast track which is to fix the problem of tying up the poll back to front by declaring there is no status quo, there is no pre-existing condition and 'leave it as is' votes are null and void. People can simply say what they want that way, without the bickering over 'misbehaviour' being rewarded by the coup keeping it's illegitimate position. Penyulap ☏ 10:35, 20 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Well, I'm working on seeing if bringing this up again can be done. That is one thing. I'm glad to hear that if the ISS ENG VAR issue is resolved you'd be good to go.
On another note, we need to avoid future issues as we know friction can happen. I've read WP:AUTIE and while it has good information, I want to hear from you. How do you want us to work with you specifically? What are your greatest skills in WP? What tasks in the project can you do best? The more detailed answers you can give me, the better we can avoid conflicts in the future. --WingtipvorteXPTT∅00:03, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well for starters, I am not autistic. If editors are whining about me as they do on wikiproject spaceflight, that's because they have been comprehensively defeated by consensus, James at FAC, Craigboy at the CSS and technology in China, WDGraham claiming Consensus when NO CONSENSUS was the result of the poll. People who do not want to do any reading are joining them, to the point that they agree that I should be killed, literally, murdered, yes that's right, read the wikiproject spaceflight page and tell me, are people reading first before whining ? I don't mind James, I have British friends, so I know what the culture is like. I admire Craigboy because we inevitably solve matters on our own, WDGraham needs your assistance and I am glad he has you to help, because Arbcom is about the only other option, because he's getting out of hand otherwise. And the Sockman has yet to be addressed, but hey, we'll get there no rush.
Anyhow, yes, the only real issue is the ENG:VAR, so reading is the key there, and if anyone wants convincing, the aces up the sleeve are to simply ask the other vocal editors because they are still here editing. I personally don't want to annoy them as once a person has stated their position on a given matter, that is their position and I respect it. Other people want to ignore it before it is even archived, and I'm one of many editors who will gently remind them that that is not proper. Penyulap ☏ 01:49, 21 Jul 2012 (UTC)
It's quite a useful term. In a sense ANI is like a peanut gallery, with the admins being the performers while the anyone who happens across or actively watches ANI get to be the audience. You can think of any report where ppl get to bash admins as the same as throwing peanuts. Thanks for the peanuts.... might make some peanut butter =P Blackmane (talk) 09:16, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I for one don't make any distinction between admins, non-admins and newbies, a few people might think otherwise based solely upon how someone is acting right in front of me at the time. Respect, trust, admiration and support goes to those in need and deserving. Education and rebuke to those in need and deserving. Anyone's outrage over my treatment regime is simply a reflection of their own belief that we are not all equals.
Peanuts are brilliant, the best kind of peanuts in my opinion are those you get when you are travelling. It's not an exact variety mind you, it's the variety of the varieties that I like. Everywhere in the world, especially through Asia, there are countless local and delicious varieties. The more varieties that you can enjoy, the further you have travelled. I have met people who have only ever tasted two or three kinds of peanuts. I feel sorry for those people because they haven't tasted life. Penyulap ☏ 10:51, 20 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I notice now that you've wikilinked the term, initially I didn't look it up, because, as an unusual term I wanted to find more from you as to the manner in which you were using it, context if you will. I just had a look now, and see that it is indeed a geographically dependent, rare term. Very rare. Penyulap ☏ 13:53, 20 Jul 2012 (UTC)
It's somewhat anglo-centric admittedly, so only those raised in countries that have similar traditions and cultural traits as England may be familiar with it. You may find that my comment about you on ANI is unfair criticism but I do hope that you will find it to be constructive, but good faith, criticism. In several ANI threads your contributions sometimes risk derailing the overall thread of discussion and digressing to something else completely. This is a common failing among editors reporting things on ANI and often why many others throw their hands up in disgust at the process on that page. Everytime I post on that page, I spend a good bit of time considering my response and composing my thoughts before doing so. If I find that I cannot post something non-neutral or potentially inflammatory, I refrain from doing so. Blackmane (talk) 15:32, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Heckling I have heard of, but the idea of a paid mob of hecklers is something I haven't come across, it's not part of the cultures that I know of, it's literally foreign to me.
In regards to my commentary at ANI, it is to assist. Always to assist despite superficial appearances.
The lesson to be learned, the test that 50% fail. I present the rational dressed in a precisely controlled measure of 'chaos' for want of a better word. This mimics the randomness of any new editor to the project. Those who look beyond the chaos see the reason, they would allow the new editors fair access the the project. Those that fail do so for many reasons including monumental stupidity. Because they disagree with presentation, they disagree not based upon reason, but upon only what 'looks like I do'. The obvious challenge is not everyone looks like they do. It's a big wide world just past the end of their nose. The project is being destroyed because reason is not sought after by the 'majority' Sure, it is sought after by many, but once you add up the 'looks like me' plus 'TLDR' (see epic fail closure at ANI below) plus the pov parade, the 'call my favourite admin to block anyone in particular' when you add up all the bullshit, it wins hands down over the reason, even if the reason is the largest proportion. There is no way this place can be saved, and with devastation like Andreasegde's ban, I see no reason to try. The writing is on the wall, in the history, in the diffs, everywhere. And nobody is reading. Well, the few that are reading can't possibly make any difference. Penyulap ☏ 16:09, 20 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Trouble is, Pen, that most people just can't follow, or get into the behind-the-wordsness, or a lot of what you post. Very, very few people will be able to, because very, very few people actually have that kind of processing ability. And it's not their fault that they don;t have it, it's just that they genuinely can't keep track of what's going on in it. You need always to try and avoid thinking of that inability as "monumental stupidity". It's just ... normal for humans. You're unusual (very unusual) for humans. Compared to autie-savant types, most people can seem monumentally stupid; you have to remember, always, that it's just very naïve to expect anyone else to have the kind of processing functions you have. No amount of bashing will ever make a difference. It's a bit like expecting a cat to be able to ride a bicycle, and then kicking it when it can't. All that happens is that the cat will end up neither liking nor trusting you.
So what you need to do is keep what you say as short and clear-to-everyone as possible; stay absolutely on track, don't digress, don;t drown people in words. Explain as you would to a five-year-old. And always, always be gentle with people, no matter how irritating they might appear to be. Being kind with people doesn't make you ineffective. You can't force people; you can only lead them. But if you want people to be able to follow you, you have to lead at a pace they can keep up with, and they have to want to follow you. You can;t chain them up and drag them along. Pesky (talk) 00:48, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't thrust upon me labels such as autistic, I am not autistic. The 'problems I run into' are problems that everyone runs into whether they are new editors, old editors, admins, or non-admins. I back admins, I seek to assist admins and make their job easier, most people see this / many people see this / a few people see this, please stop giving out assumptions like 'most people are upset with me' it's patently partisan. A few vocal people have concerns about my vocal position within the majority consensus, whether it's within the majority consensus on the ISS, the Chinese space station, or that wikipedia is broken and needs fixing. When I am wrong I have the supremely annoying habit of admitting it instantly once someone shows the flaw in the logic, nothing annoys my critics more than agreeing with them the moment I am wrong, it robs them of the joy that they live for. Everyone else is just like 'oh ok, Penyulap has admitted he is human and agrees with me, cool'
I have supreme patience for idiots. I have nothing but assistance to give the new editors, or the humble, or basically anyone at all. The only people I don't have much patience for are those with no intention to assist the project and are being unfair to those who are doing their best and working their hardest to improve things. Someone like AndytheGrump, or andreasegde or any veteran editor who has given their editing life to improving this project and when you hurt them you kill the spirit of the project. Andreasegde is doing his best to keep his chin up despite the horrific epic fail of commonsense, and fair judgement. I am not asking for any luxury and nobody else is either, reading and investigating the case is required. Supporting people who make comments without reading the case and comprehending it is untenable, this IS supposed to still be core policy. Reading and comprehension skills are still required. Stop pretending that we must cater to the inCOMPETENTcies we see around us, because COMPETENCY is required. The competency required varies according to the job description and some jobs require more than others. Penyulap ☏ 01:31, 21 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Speaking of peanuts, I didn't name or include you in when closing the mess around GabeMc and Andreasedge; but I've been singularly underwhelmed by your participation there. Beware that throwing peanuts is a dangerous activity, and that it rarely ends well for those who find heckling from the sidelines to be amusing. — Coren(talk)12:51, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it's been reverted and if you look at my last comment there you'll see I'm already cool with it, so you missed the 'Right now' which is now 'history' as well as incorrect. Penyulap ☏ 02:31, 21 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Case number one from the page you wikilink to "Improving the clarity and readability of a page" to address this issue. Penyulap ☏ 02:35, 21 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You are welcome. I am pleased that your troubles have had a silver lining. If I made a new friend every time I was attacked by a flock of seagulls I'd be quite the celebrity. Penyulap ☏ 02:20, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
We have all lost the battle. If the objective was to bring peace and harmony between the editors, then having one of them voted out for 12 months means the war has already been lost. Come back in 12 months and I'll be happy to work towards a solution with everyone. Penyulap ☏ 02:24, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I am, you can hardly resolve your differences when you turn your back upon one member of the group who is actually willing and able to reach a compromise. Penyulap ☏ 04:34, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
teaching someone how to drive a car and saying they can't have a license even if they pass the test ? doesn't seem a meaningful approach to the problem to me. Penyulap ☏ 05:54, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
"If andreasegde participates" is half the question, where he is allowed to participate, or where he is welcome to participate, is the other half. I'll let him have input on it at this point. I would follow his lead as to whether there is any point whatsoever in participating until he is able to edit the topic himself. Myself, I see no point in it, as I have explained and that is where I lean heavily. I think only he could persuade me otherwise, and I don't think there is any need for it honestly. Back in 12 months when there is a genuine effort to get everyone editing together. Penyulap ☏ 06:29, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I would like you in on the mediation page, Penyulap. Let's see how it all finally ends. Even if it's a bad film, one should always wait until the credits roll.--andreasegde (talk) 08:49, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As you please, I am more the kind who will sit through rubbish for a bit, but when it's really bad, yes I do walk out. The people at the box office will never be able to give the 90 minutes of your life back, so salvage what you can, where you can. Feel free to unstrike me. Penyulap ☏ 09:03, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
My mistake on the incorrect assumption; I am sorry.
Saying this cautiously, it seems there is a willingness to bring up the ISS ENG:VAR discussion again, provided we have some rules for the discussion. That is good news, right?
If it does happen, I would ask you to get in touch with all the other editors who have supported your views or participated in the ENG:VAR discussions in the past. The more participation we have, the better.
I don't mind the idea of a review, but as I am re-inventing myself at the moment (altering persona to match people's growing awareness of what I am really doing and why) then there'd be pretty much a lot of 'this is how you were back then' countered by 'that was so like 5 minutes ago' I don't mind, but, well, who knows.
I'm cool with trying to find some of the old editors who had commented on the talkpage in the past, it would be awesome to resolve and put aside all the 3 year old ill-feelings so everyone can move on, that would be awesome. Penyulap ☏ 18:58, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Understood on the review. As a side comment, you may want to hold off your RfA until all this is solved. That is just my suggestion anyway.
Be as transparent as possible when getting the old editors. Any hint of canvassing and the discussion would go haywire.
As for the comment you left me on my talk. One of the things that has to happen for the discussion is accept that the article is in en-uk. One way or another, that is the status quo now. I do not claim there was consensus for it to be that way and that is why we're trying to bring it up again. But the discussion has to be to either change from British or leave as is. I would discourage "bringing outside help" for now, lets try to solve this withing the spaceflight project first. You make some interesting points that I had not considered, I hope you are wrong and this is all just a misunderstanding.
I have put together a draft of how I may bring up the discussion on the ISS talk page again. These were just some good ideas I put together, they are not necessarily how I want the discussion to go, so I appreciate if you gave me some feedback (here on your talk). --WingtipvorteXPTT∅01:08, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Double negatives of statements of phrases that have double meanings under not every circumstance. I'll put it on my list of things to ponder ? Penyulap ☏ 22:50, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
oops sorry didn't notice the edit summary, I only looked at the edit. Please do as you wish, or just revert for now and I'll do something about it later. Penyulap ☏ 00:28, 24 Jul 2012 (UTC)
well, I look at it this way, it's that much more amusing to knock the 'goliaths' flat on their asses when you're as tall as a garden gnome. After a while everyone either gets wise to it, or I get bored with it, so Meh. On the other hand my skills are better suited to Arbcom, but that is all like reading and too much work and not enough goofing off. Being an admin, what does that involve, not any actual work at all, plus having an entourage follow you everywhere whining and complaining about everything you do. Hey, come to think of it don't I do that already ?
Look I'll say yes on both counts so long as I'm officially doing it just to shit my critics to tears ok ? Penyulap ☏ 21:29, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
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Hi Penyulap, I wonder if you might be able to help me. My recurring problem has just recurred, again. What is the best way to deal with it? Thanks and regards, Eddaido (talk) 10:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Penyulap. It seems our paths have been crossing a little bit recently and since that's likely to keep happening, I thought I'd try and clear the air. I'm happy to answer any questions on my behaviour, explain things in detail from my point of view, if you think it might help. Would you mind if I sent you an email on this matter - so you don't have lots of people interupting and telling you what you should think of me? (To those who did, I do appreciate your kind words)
If you'd like to copy in a person you trust on any replies, say our dear Auntie, or perhaps Dennis for example, I would have no objections to that. Or if you'd rather do things on wiki, here or at a quieter subpage, just let me know. WormTT(talk) 09:44, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You are in no way interested in improving yourself, your motivation stems solely from wanting to avoid my precision commentary of why you are acting in an incompetent manner. The only two options that I will give you is go work somewhere that I can't see you, or want to change your bad behaviour through a desire to improve yourself for the sake of self improvement alone. I'll tell you right now, you've fucked up so badly and consistently that you have a lot to learn, and with ZERO desire on your part to improve, I do not believe that you'll ever be sufficiently competent to earn my respect.
If you want my help to improve, the way to get it is not to come here because you're whining about Penyulap shoving your bad behaviour halfway up your ass like a flagpole for everyone to see, it's to ask me for my help because you honestly want assistance with your many problems, if you want to pretend that you are perfect, well, let's just all agree that you are perfect ok pumpkin ? and I'll be the one to show everyone just what kind of perfect thing you are. Penyulap ☏ 10:40, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I'm confident I know my motivation, and I would love to hear your precision commentary. It's most certainly not something I am trying to avoid. I believe in self-improvement and the value of feedback, along with such concepts of administrator accountability. So, if you would like to discuss my actions, I'm willing to participate - but I ask only one thing, you go into this with the possibility in your head that you might be wrong. I intend to do the same. WormTT(talk) 11:01, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Y done. Sorry I can not normally bring myself to delete anything, call it religion, the church of new additions. Check how green and dark green my edits are :) you'll have to delete it yourself, and this too :)
I’d wave but my hands are tied. I have a large sample for screening. I can authenticate, if you can one time make some garbage and throw it into the trash can you saw before. Not sure if you still have the lid that fits that trash can. We're all in this together. Sigh. 173.30.26.12 (talk) 22:46, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No need to authenticate I know straight off by the phrasing who it is, even with two lines of text and no tools. Just go to thewik.net it's a undead wiki you can use (I help with two dozen wikis inside wikipedia, and others outside wikipedia). However, you have to know that I won't be harming this site in any way, regardless of my ability to see what the graphs in the editor retention show, this is still not my house, and so I respect the house rules, the same way as if I came to your house, I would respect your rules. Besides which, I don't think you know that on Jimbos page, when someone started laying into BWilkins, someone I've never particularly liked at all, it forced me to close ranks. Because when push comes to shove, I close ranks and protect my colleagues against the outside threat. It's only after everything is back to normal I go back to flushing their head in the toilet (in a rhetorical way). Considering the threats lately to this place, I'm starting to get even more of the fighting to save it spirit. Weird.
meh I don't know if that site is dead or undead, wikialpha is good too, but let me know if you go there Mr/Mrs IP. Penyulap ☏ 23:13, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I am awake again. I never thought of that, I thought it was a lot worse actually. Penyulap ☏ 02:04, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Sorry no, I didn't mean any personal details, those are completely irrelevant, I apologise I didn't make that clear. What I meant to say before was the size of a text sample. for example an account with sufficient chatter in it for me to process to the enth degree. Normally it doesn't matter, a small sample of text is plenty, when the matter is one of trust, or it's higher-ups and their politics and so on, in cases like that I want to see enough text so that I am removing all reasonable doubt. I have no understanding of the SPI process, I can't even get the flaming thing to work because I can't work out how to interface with them or even who, and I can't dump everything from my head onto the page because it would be TLDR and I can't tell which parts the SPI clerk is after until he or she asks me what parts they would like to look at. Whatever I gave up on that bullshit. I can't interface with them on a meaningful level except to simply dump everything, diffs, personality profiles, graphology reports, editing objectives, motivation breakdown and changes of all of that across time and the reasons for the changes blah blah frikkety blah. I only bother to care to look into the mind of the person I'm talking to as far as needed to establish trust. OMG I have a CC and give it to my neighbour with my ID number, so they can goto the bank and get my money from the machine when I am unable to, and they swear that they will spend all of my money in town, they say they'll enjoy that and thanks very much, and I say yes go ahead please help yourself, have a great time. And then a few days later I manage to get to their house to visit, and they say oh, there is none of your money left, we bought a TV, and I look and see the TV is indeed new, not as big as most of those LCD's and I say hey, that's a beauty, it's lovely. I hope there was no change left over, I hope you spent the remainder while you were in there. He's like oh, I think I spent it all, let me check if there are some coins left, and he opens his wallet and gives me the money, and we joke some more, and I never bother for one minute, not even till this day, to check my bankbook at all. I don't care. Because I do not need to care, because I know. I like to live in a world where I can know something, and it is true. And I dare say, that it is a lovely place to live, it makes up for a great many other shortcomings indeed it truly does.
So SPI doesn't work for me at the moment because I cannot tell how much of which reports or information they want to see, and I'm damn well not going to paste up in public a how to guide for anyone, and I'm damn well not going to paste up a thesis for this editor who is just going on and on and on trying to subvert policy. He seems to think that because someone on his bank robbing team stole a bagful of status quo votes in front of a lot of other editors who were very upset over it, he can provide the illusion of support for the idea that they have now got so far away from the scene of the crime that they should get be allowed to get away with it. It's laughable. The law doesn't give up on anyone and neither do I. Other editors have not forgotten, they have said quietly and once their position on the matter, so as far as I am concerned, they can either get a major authority to sign off on the matter and say they can keep the stolen !votes, or they can approach the people who are upset at the theft and ask nicely if they may keep the !votes (you never know it could work, and if I was the one doing the asking you can bet it might) and if those people say, that's ok, you can have them, or if they voluntarily returned the cash and put it on the table, ok then, it would be forgive and forget time and lets not talk about it ever again. But using socks to ask me to sign off on a deal that says oh, keep the money it's ok even though people are upset over it is just ludicrous. Giving up is an absurdity. I don't understand what the statute of limitations in their jurisdiction is, but in mine, if people are still upset over the issue, then it is still an issue and I will not be silenced. Whatever, I lost my train of thought or bank robbers got it or something. Lols, bandits got it.
Arrr the bank robbers are trying to steal my train of thought, where is the law, help me help me :)
I'll look into the matter. I talk to much is the only thing I know for a certainty right now. Penyulap ☏ 03:16, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I think email is not enabled in your preferences. Penyulap ☏ 04:04, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You bet ! Now that is a challenge, to improve your page. :) I shall do my best, starting tomorrow I expect. Penyulap ☏ 17:19, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
So let's talk colours, speed, and such Darrrling.... Penyulap ☏ 16:30, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Hehe thanks, But to you think you could modify it to just the flames and all black text, looks more evil that way! And change it to "Enter my evil volcano lair"♦ Dr. Blofeld17:40, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So it's black text as in volcano, yes ? and flame speed ? Penyulap ☏ 17:49, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Yes, try it, get rid of the white! Oooh actually you could do a Mmmmwwwooooahahaaaa!!!! in black, that would be evil coming from the flames LOL!!♦ Dr. Blofeld18:58, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In smaller black text, same size, above below, leave it to me, sign it at the end, questions questions, don't worry I have all the answers. Penyulap ☏ 19:50, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Like this ?
I will need a bit of time to get to the underlying flames, for Jaguar's it didn't matter because the windowed letters and the seams lined up perfectly. I have to patch these ones together properly or make some of my own flames (also good because I can change license on what I make from them), patching animations together is a bit labour intensive. But it'll be done soon enough. Penyulap ☏ 19:29, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I forgot the words while I was making it and ended up adding 'welcome' by mistake Sorry. But that makes us even for putting my unfinished work on display, Oh really !!!!
I can fix the wording, but I left out the Mwahahahaha sort of thing, I was thinking to make that into a component and it could animate something of a cartoonish style, the MWwoooooh turns up and the HA HA HA's follow in an animated sequence ? like, dislike ? And attribution is this ok with you ? Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)
That's better, but the "attribution" at the bottom completely spoils it. You are attributed on the image page, can't see your reasoning behind that one! It looks less evil!♦ Dr. Blofeld21:18, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's cool, I usually put it into my best works, like with the grumpy award, I'll take it out again, and fix the mistakes on the text, unless you like the text otherwise ? also do you want you talking at all, and can I add it subtly, like on this one here, it has attribution, but you can't see it when looking at it, unless you are looking for it. I guess it's easier to show you and you can see what i mean in the next draft.
it's in here, if you can find it.
In the meantime, I am down for the count (sleep again because of bad hormone levels) I am actually meant to see a Doctor today, but I cannot stay awake to do so (catch 22 eh?) but on the bright side, I wake again in 2 to 4 hours (not as much fun as it sounds) Penyulap ☏ 23:32, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)
..and back up again, with a mild fever oh joy. health problems always cascade. Penyulap ☏ 02:01, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You're not alone, Penyulap. I too have problems sleeping. I never go to bed till one in the morning and don't go to sleep till god knows when! :(. Did you make that trains userbox? It's great. Never seen anything like it! ☠Jaguar☠10:29, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, that is me at the best of times, up till all hours, it's not like that, it's something else, the thyroid regulates everything, it doesn't do insulin directly i don't know, but after you eat, there is some interaction or something and you can get very tired, like a puppet that has strings cut, my head almost hits the keyboard in a swoon, I sleep 4 hours or so, hormones go up and i awaken, after a few hours, say 4 or 5, it's dipped so far that I return to sleep, and the cycle continues so i have no idea where my body is supposed to be at. But actually I seem to be holding it together reasonably well. I made some other things you might like, some of them are here User:Penyulap/Anime. I made some train sets, I have them somewhere on my computer and could upload them, but the effect it brings to the userpage doesn't vary very much so I haven't bothered to upload them. PenGreen is slowly going viral across the project, I'm quite happy about that little one, it spreads my all positive where possible approach to editing. (my contribs are as green as I can manage) it's silly I know, but it beats harassing the weak and disabled that's for sure. The way your body is working is normal, you're not meant to wake up until close to noon, and sleep about 10 hours a day which is more than most. It's just that everyone older than you doesn't realise it's normal and thinks it's something you do on purpose. If you have trouble going to sleep quickly I can help train you to speed the process. There are more things I made, you can hovermouse over the anim at the top and then click the right place, or goto page history and follow the bot's edit summary to the archive for more. Penyulap ☏ 12:09, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. Yes, I animated the trains from still pictures, and drew the smoke. Penyulap ☏ 12:12, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, Penyulap. I used to get migraines and of course being a teenager that is all part of growing up and it is natural. But I used to get them real bad, and in 2010 I had only two hours sleep every night for two weeks... it was hell! But now my sleeping pattern is a lot better, and now I can get to sleep... most of the time anyway! Your train animations are amazing. I've had a look at the history and it is fascinating! I never knew you could do that to userboxes... ☠Jaguar☠21:48, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You can't really. Or at least, I had never seen anything like it done. I like to stretch out the limits within the boundaries to see what is possible, the 'bot operators here often give their bots a fictional form, which I like to participate in. Actually NASA does it as well with the robots on the international space station. I made a little video inside a userbox from one video and a selection of still images, It illustrates my bot's hamster's journey into space and disappearance. The Russian leaders chat with him and wish him luck and so on, and live coverage is provided by RTV (either Russia Today or Rat tv as you please) here it is. Enjoy.
PALZ is a little worried about Ferris, who Penyulap thinks will be just fine.
I personally do not like userboxes, as it said in the beginning on my userpage and have always said. It actually says it inside a userbox which is a little ironic, or a lot ironic, or if you are looking at the future from the time I wrote it back then, and looking at the path of time which has flowed, now that I have no peer in the UBXes it would seem to have become monumentally ironic, wouldn't you think ? I tend to keep my userpage time continuum neutral where possible. Penyulap ☏ 03:10, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)
well I am thinking that to be fair to them I should try not to speak over the top of their heads and actually address their concerns. Sure there are the linguists and empaths who see through the simple screen as easily as you do, but to be proper I should address the majority rather than the minority, or actually address all of them which is easy enough to do, but not right now, I don't have energy due to low thyroid hormone levels and I don't have meds to keep me awake, so maybe later is better, probably after a smack from Auntie as well :)
Thank you for the Barnstar, and thank you for repeating for the third time that I should be an admin. I can still count editors you know ! :) I'm also awake enough not to namedrop either, given people want anyone at all to blame for their comments except themselves. I'll take a share, but they indeed are responsible for their inattention. Penyulap ☏ 22:21, 24 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I am speaking to people on wiki-en IRC at the moment. They say if you object to it closing then it can be re-opened. I do recommend this as it is surely worth a try. EggCentric23:43, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If a passing stranger may make a suggestion, I don't think that reopening it is a good idea. From what I saw of your RfA, it failed pretty quickly and pretty unanimously (with only five supports and 24 opposes), and if you were to reopen it you'd probably see a repeat of this, or a very similar result. I recommend you take at least six months and wait for the impact of your SPI and block to wear off, maybe contribute to admin-related areas a little more, then go for the mop again. You may do as you wish, but I'd hate to see an editor like you fail RfA twice in less than a week. Kindest regards, The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs02:11, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is not time, as much is an offence to reason, the problem is I slapped Emo trying to make him understand, so frustrated am I that they won't see. I agree with re-opening, but all of my statement would need to be removed, and I could place another. However it is clearer, but not entirely necessary, to tie up a few silly matters first. A few weeks is sufficient, it is important to place the RfA not because it needs the correct response, but because it needs the correct question. I have not presented the correct question. Penyulap ☏ 04:24, 25 Jul 2012 (UTC)
The problem is that you were involved in a very recent SPI case and a very recent block. Administrators are supposed to set an example for Wikipedia's newer editors, and RfA voters don't like seeing candidates who were recently (as in, within the last six months) involved in something controversial or blocked. You're free to do as you please, but I honestly don't think you're going to see much more support unless you wait a substantial amount of time before running again. Remember, it's not whether or not you think you're ready, but whether or not the community thinks you're ready. Regards, The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs05:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Look, I agree with you 100% on these things, however they are trivial issues to address. As for 'don't think you're going to see much more support unless you wait a substantial amount of time before running again' I would agree 100%, we disagree only upon the definition of 'substantial'. The RfA closed in about 90 minutes was it ? I'd say hmm, (scratches chin) 4 hours at the most in a new RfA would show a greater percentage of support than the 1 positive, one Neutral Vs Negative and Joke votes. Naturally I would talk to my critics, rather than straight over the top of their heads. I've illustrated their complete inattention to meaning and the the weaknesses of the process. Actually it was probably a bad idea as it highlights how blatantly easy it is to become an admin as much as how badly the process needs an overhaul.
Of course, if the new one is left for more than a day or so, then you really do have a RfA on your hands. With an actual discussion on actual merit rather than the usual superficial congratulatory bullshit. Provoking a REAL discussion is your uncle Penyulap's favourite trick, ask the admins who responded when I walked into the administrator's noticeboard and said "I'm having a problem with my sockpuppet's userpage, what should I do ?" Like walking into the Police central headquarters wearing a mask, moneybags in hand and saying "Excuse me officers but my getaway car won't start, could you please help me ?" and they all rush straight out and have the bonnet open and are arguing about the best way to fix the car. The question is not 'is the getaway car a movie prop' or is the sockpuppet against any policy at all, the question is how long admins are going to edit war over my sockpuppets talkpage, or whether the officers will resort to shooting each other to resolve their dispute over jumper leads or push starting the getaway car. Till this day my sockpuppets userpage is locked to stop them and I'm not about to ask for it to be unlocked so they can start all over again. Penyulap ☏ 07:44, 25 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I don't think any of RfA's weaknesses factored into your failed RfA, Penyulap, and those who opposed were not inattentive. In this respect, I must echo Pesky's comment below mine: "it's vitally important that you stop thinking of them (and reacting to them) as being stupid, disruptive, deceitful, two-faced, and that stuff." Just because somebody does something that you don't agree with, it doesn't mean they were out of line; the only thing that can be determined is that you think they were out of line. And there's a difference between somebody being out of line and somebody thinking somebody's out of line.
As for the "substantial amount of time" concern, I must point out that I've been participating in RfAs for over two years now, and have seen that, in general, no matter how qualified a candidate is, if their most recent RfA was less than six months ago (or longer, depending on certain circumstances), their most recent RfA will fail. It's sort of an unspoken rule at RfA to wait at least six months to run again. It shows that you possess patience and that you're not power-hungry for the tools. Trust me, I speak from experience here; when I was a newer editor, I always aspired to be an administrator. Which, in its essence, isn't a bad thing, but I took it a little too far. I edited Wikipedia in a way that I thought would impress RfA voters, not necessarily in a way that completely helps Wikipedia. Now, I wasn't harming Wikipedia by any means; I was simply working with the sole objective to impress RfA voters rather than improve Wikipedia. After I failed my first RfA, I waited four months before running again. And I failed the second time. That's when I realized that one should edit Wikipedia to improve it, not to race to the admin job.
What I'm trying to say with that little personal story is that patience is a key quality that people look for in potential administrators, and the ability to address people's concerns (even if you don't agree with them) is also very important. The most important thing I hope you'll take from that story is that you shouldn't be so eager to be an administrator. It's not much different from being a regular editor, with the exception of the extra tools of course. Rather than focus on becoming an administrator, you should take some time to improve Wikipedia and to work on the problems brought up in your first RfA. And only run when you are absolutely sure you'll succeed. To get the opinion of an experienced editor in this field, I'd suggest going here next time you wish to run. I think you'd make a good administrator someday, but you must focus on addressing the concerns of those who opposed your RfA first, and you should take your time doing this. Regards, The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs21:33, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with a good deal of what you have said. I will take it on board and consider it. You make one glaring huge mistaken assumption however. I am more effective and enjoy NOT being an admin, and do my work a lot better. I choose above all to help with the non-sister wikipedias that have a chance to fix all the fundamental problems once and for all. Rendering all arguments moot at once by system wide changes is the miracle cure which is no miracle cure, it's fact. But I'm here anyway in 2012 because the new projects need more people to create a workload to keep me occupied. I'm not saying your painting me as an antisocial in a power hungry rush, but you are making mistaken assumptions about my clear intentions and desires. I don't care for the role, but I would genuinely work towards it if that is what my colleagues wish. They see the skills and want to utilise them to offset the other stuff. I'm just a bit piffed sometimes as I don't always get help with the problems I am having trouble coping with. People do not so much want to help me as they want to line up at the complaints department and critique me. I mean, I appreciate your insight and will take the statistical analysis as gospel, that IS useful, but I won't expect you to roll up your sleeves at all. Penyulap ☏ 05:25, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)
If you're alright with not being an admin, why are you so eager to run again? I can see that I may have made a mistake in my judgment of you, and I apologize for that. But you shouldn't be following the will of your colleagues, you should be following your own will. See, one of my colleagues nominated me in my second RfA, and my first instincts did tell me to reject the request. But, like you, I also wanted to do as my colleagues wished, and I did think that I was ready, so I went for it, and failed. Since then, a few of my colleagues have expressed interest in nominating me for adminship, but as I personally don't care to run for the position, I gently turn them down. Again, I'm not going to stop you if you run for RfA in the near future; in fact, I may support you, and I wish you luck should you choose to run again. And I can understand being angry about not getting help with problems; I've come across that in my time here, as well. I may not be the most experienced person here, and I've got some things to deal with in real life, but I have some free time on my hands and I'll be around at least once a day for the next month or two, so if you need assistance with anything, you can look me up. The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs14:11, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not 'eager' to run. I wasn't 'eager' in the first place. I recognise that I can or do a lot of that kind of stuff anyhow, I should probably stay out of ANI altogether, because I am well, I may say the crowds occasionally frustrate me because they don't read things first before commenting. Whatever. But my calls are always good. If I am making a call that is a slam dunk it's a slam dunk, if I'm making a call that is wrong, then it gets discussed to death and argued over by people saying I was right and then they go off arguing about policy and the subject is not on me anymore. Like when I shoved a sentence into blockpolicy, or redirected my sockpuppets userpage. Sometimes I scan ANI and I see things like this which absolutely outrage me, a saint of an editor and people are *****. I probably spend about as much time as bushranger did studying the matter, but my conclusion is precise. The only thing I don't like about that editor is his userpage. I can't pimp it :) Actually I mention a sockpuppet in that discussion, who says he's from India like Vivek Rai, but has never once spoke with anything but a British American accent. Which reminds me how much I love strange accents and they force me to ask everything about the person's background, I can judge how long someone has been living locally by how much of it is left, calculated against what lifestyle they have and what opportunities they have to talk to locals (factory workers take decades to lose an accent, but shopkeepers lose it faster, and schoolkids are the fastest of all.) There is everything to see in a persons text you see. Sometimes I can't answer specific questions and I know it, so I don't make any judgements, but other times it's such an outstanding clear sample I can bet the farm and walk away. I haven't made any mild or serious misjudgements yet, if you look at my art it's found homes on the best editors pages, often people who I've met because they were dragged to ANI. wow I talk a lot, where was I? Oh yes, no it was a long time ago that someone said I should run, and who it was that said it blew me away and left me lost for words because I knew long ago that he has such incredible insight, he is a major advisor and uses Jimbo's page as well as many forums, and said I would be good to detect gaming. Which is fair enough, but I didn't know what to do, I hadn't thought of it at all before. But I guess after so long it lingers in my mind where I could make a difference. I give it a go in a few places for people who were having trouble at ANI, like Eddadio and the others, and I know how easy it is for me to spot fakes, so I figure well, yeah, because I look at what other people are misinterpreting, and think well if I blocked Eddadio he may well thank me just the same if I'm wrong who knows when you can apologise like I can. If I choose unblocks as well as I choose to whom I give my art, then nobody would ever get past me. I could open up a second chance clinic like Medwed's, and confirm puppets are in fact puppets all day long with 'explain in 100 words why you should be unblocked' and people wouldn't have a snowflakes chance to get past it. unless they were genuine and then I could examine the case (I wrote the article as an alternative to arguing that policy needs clarification (or outright change), or the insanity of making it into an essay for everyone to ruin). I do figure that I could do a good job in some places now, so when two more people said they wanted me to run, I said well ok. Anyhow the time thing is a different matter, some people take a long time to change their thinking, but for others it's like scientific method where you leave out all the sentiment and emotion and that is how I am. So it's only a matter of finding fault with my logic and explaining it to me and I'm straight away, 'that's fair' or you are right, and so on. Doesn't take a certain amount of time for me to go from wrong to right, that is an offence to reason I do not understand, but maybe it applies to other people somehow, like me critics for some reason I cannot fathom. The secret to being an insufferable smart ass like me who is always right is to admit instantly, sincerely and comprehensively the moment you realise it. That way you can get straight back to work being right all the time. Any other strategy fails. Anyhow as for a RfA, obviously I wouldn't gloss it in anything if I did it again, and I'd clean up some of those people's concerns. Give some lovely examples people can enjoy and all that. Easy to engineer it for a proper and thoughtful result that everyone would enjoy (rather than just critics and yes/no men. Easy as. The only advantage I can see though is just that I wouldn't have to convince everyone that I was right before I do something, they could either accept it, or argue amongst themselves without me, or if I detect anything is amiss, go rapidly into stuff the shit back into the horse mode :) Like here. It's not a matter of time to admit mistakes, it only takes as much time as it takes to explain something. Use scientific thought to explain something, or use a commonsense approach, or ask a favour or whatever. I think the good thing about me is the same best thing about Craigboy. No matter what we disagree on we're always willing to talk something over if asked to. Even if he went 5RR with me everyday of the week against consensus I'd still kick anyone's ass who has a go at him, because he always will explain and discuss. There is nothing you can ask more of a person than that I think. (except that they shut up once in a while) Penyulap ☏ 16:35, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen; I didn't even notice your RfA! I've been a bit busy. I have to say, though, that if I;d noticed it, I would have opposed you on a NOTNOW basis. Although your intellectual skills are awesome, you still need to spend probably several months brushing up on some of the interaction skills. You do tend to lose patience with people who genuinely can;t see / do the stuff you do, and it's vitally important that you stop thinking of them (and reacting to them) as being stupid, disruptive, deceitful, two-faced, and that stuff. (Remember this; that could be your biggest failing.) Bear in mind that it's not their fault that they can't see the detail that you see ... and that the vast majority of other people also can't see it. Also bear in mind that, on occasions, it is possible for you to make a mistake on the detail, by failing to see something that "the other type" can see ... and try to work very, very hard on learning to see what they can see. One thing which you could really do with, for your own sake as much as anything else, is a really hefty injection of tolerance and understanding of other people. This you can learn. (You're a smart student; you can learn almost anything if you really put your mind to it. But you'll have to put your mind to it; you need a burning desire to learn it. Think of it as a bit like learning a brand-new programming language.) Work, work, and work more. Maybe in six months or a year. But you'll never get it without addressing those issues, as those are the ones which turn people against you. Pesky (talk) 06:57, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
He's the epitome. The edit summary says "disruption". There are so few people who have any clue what that is anymore. It must be something to do with civility or something, instead of saying "I have run out of reason to refute your logic" or simply "I don't like you" today the politically correct word seems to be 'disruption' maybe that's why no admin is capable of spotting it anymore, they have no idea what the word means. Thanks for the laugh. Penyulap ☏ 21:43, 26 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Hey, guys; I know it's going to be hard, but please give Gabe a little space! None of us is ever perfect in all ways, but it's so important in life always to remember that other people (as well as us) can just get over-upset, overwhelmed, have a bad day or a bad situation when we just don't show at our best, and we should always try and resist the temptation to "turn the other guy into an ogre". We all know just how wrong that feels when someone does it to us. Gabe is OK. I know you have had problems, but, really, he's OK. Dish out forgiveness and tolerance for sins and perceived sins; don't rub salt into wounds; don't keep on chewing at the old bones. Give out, and you may get back. Even if you never get it back, the better thing is always to give out. It's not exactly Karma, in any of its traditional senses. Excuse me if I'm apparently talking waffle or anything, but it's 04:16 here at the moment, and I've been awake since 02:something, and the only reason I'm at the computer is that my son is safely asleep, and if he gets a problem, the Iffy-cat will notice and call me. The Iffy-cat is a good watcher of at-risk people; if he sees a problem, he will come and get me to deal with it. Pets can be quite amazing.
It took me decades to lean to apply the same principles to dealing with humans as I use when dealing with animals. I only wish I'd learned earlier; things have been so much better since I twigged. Pesky (talk) 03:19, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Calm yourself Pesky, everything is ok you don't need to worry that everything will explode when you turn your back, well actually, umm, what is a better way to put penyulap into that sentence (scratches head), no seriously this matter is fine. There is a pleasing little read on this page here for an unsettled matter that needs to settle down before I return to help them work together again, no chasing going on. I don't actually ever think that long blocks or indef blocks ever work, and I don't believe they are even applicable in any circumstances, sure if enough people say so then it is to be respected and upheld, but it's better even for problem people to leave their talkpage open and clean up the mess in one place rather than chase them all over the project through SPI in the hope they will eventually learn enough to outsmart you. It's nuts. It's a lot easier to watch them in one spot, and it does work, and it works well for anyone who is in any way marginally social and forms social ties. Besides which, as you mention GabeMC, then the two of us are hardly the driving force behind the 'GabeMC is causing a slight disturbance' movement. Did Jimbo sign up to that movement, I'll go check in a minute, I know a lot of people came onboard to defend BWilkins, and that is a sight to see in itself, considering Jimbo chastised him recently. Penyulap ☏ 03:43, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
andreasegde, for the record, please do keep me informed of things like that which I am interested in or may be interested in. Penyulap ☏ 05:54, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
The biggest fools fight over the smallest things, I grow weary of trying to help them. Even the smartest people can barely see what it is I am doing, it's hard for them to follow. You need to use the hammer of Thor to help calm down the most outrageous cases. When I swing that sucker people can't see the objective, the method, the precision, the purpose, the result, they can only see one thing, a 5 stories tall hammer blotting out the sun as it swings overhear through the project and smacks the McIssue into something resembling silence. Yeah. I love my job. Completely thankless and universally misunderstood, what more could a humanitarian ask for. Give them the certain knowledge that a can of whoopass is waiting if they misbehave further and from someone they cannot possibly combat even with all their speeddial lackeys, hell I even gave both sides a persona to close ranks over. I was surprised and pleased with that part. Unite the warring factions in one more way. Meaningless in the end. I grow weary of it. My grasp of game theory is well known and I utilise it in everything I do, but in the end I think that even my friends do not want me to assist with the largest problems. The small evil within wants to go and give a wikilove gift of gasoline and matches and say due to popular demand you are free to burn the project to the ground, but I never submit to crossing my internal moral restraints. I don't use awards or art to tease anyone.
It is interesting to me that I can now see that the interpersonal problems other editors face have now become so complicated by 'the way we do things' that the old way of doing things is in itself used against the project by the new kind of threat. It is interesting that the clearest shortest route to a solution is resisted by the old guard. I don't mind of course, as the old guards are no fools and trust me enough to allow me to test out the new solutions. But I offer this critique to them, who else is stepping up to the plate to take on the largest problems ? Is it not true, that whatever the reasons are for not fixing the largest problems, however well intentioned your motivations are, the fundamental criticism is that you are letting the largest problems go unchecked. I'll also allow those problems to go unchecked now, I join you in your ranks of inaction, if there is another McIssue I won't swing the hammer of Thor in quite such an alarming manner, (and don't need to now the job is done anyhow). I have seen and learnt the dynamics of why you don't take up the challenge to address these issues. Why threads sprawl and drag at ANI for weeks. I can fix the problems as good as anyone and better than most, but I have little interest in it now. I'll help the Eddadios who come and ask me for my help and thank me for threatening to block him, I'll tell people like Acadēmica Orientālis to shut up because he talks to much and accept his thanks for my kind words, I'll step in to catch the rage and anger at the small quiet talkpages like Mother Teresa, and offer compassion which prevents that stranger from ever vandalising the project, who thanks me for my understanding and argues that I am not an idiot. I enjoy to do this because I genuinely care for all these people. It's enough for me, and you'll have to offer public requests and support if you want me to do more. Penyulap ☏ 04:11, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)
This is kinda a response to your email, in a way, but also possibly applicable to a heap of situations, and may (possibly) benefit some of your stalkers and so son, so I'm bunging this here for you.(Besides which, I'm so used to using wiki-markup now that I find myself using it inappropriately in emails, and then have to go all through and correct it all ... heh!)
You know what I am; I'm a HFA, with a bit of autie-savantism, and I've been heavily involved with animal interactions, training, rehabbing, and all that stuff, for a very long time. A very long time indeed ... I can't remember a time when I actually got on better with people than with other species. Because, as a youngster, I infinitely preferred other species to Homo sapiens, and because I'm a learning-freak-type nerd, and can get wholly engrossed in subjects which appealed to me, I studied and studied and studied any other species that I wanted to be able to work with and communicate with. Books on behaviourism, field study, study of two-way communications, herd / pack / tribe structures, heirarchies, etiquette, body language, other communications, and so on. For quite a lot of species. Masses and masses (hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours) observing, internally noting, watching without interacting, just so I could learn how they ticked). At the beginning, I just wanted to know, obsessively. Because I cared about them. I never cared that much about Homo sapiens.
So ... Because I wanted to work with animals (specifically horses), I considered becoming an equine vet. But, by the time I was looking at what A-levels I'd need, I'd become self-aware enough to know that dealing with the animals would never be a problem for me ... but dealing with their owners could be a real challenge, and, to be a vet, you have to be good at dealing with people, no matter what they've done to their animals. So, instead, I decided to become a riding and horse-management instructor. That's actually much easier; all it needs is that you really know your subject and can put it across. Surprisingly, there's not much individual human interaction required!
But that also gave me the opportunity to begin to learn about humans; by teaching humans how to interact successfully with equines. To become an effective interpreter in that, I had to at least start to learn how humans worked, because it was never instinctive with me, it didn't come naturally, and I simply didn't know how to be a "normal" (neurotypical) human. (That might ring a lot of bells with autie-types: feeling that you "don't know how to be a human"; that you're failing somewhere.)
It wasn't until I'd become a lot more mature that I twigged to the fact that, if I'd been able to study any other species I wanted, in order to be able to communicate effectively with them and interact with them in a way which would enable them to accept me as being "one of them", that I realised that I could choose to do exactly the same thing with humans: change the way I looked at them, and think of them as being "just another species" whose methods could be studied and learned. Bingo! I wasn't born "knowing how to be a horse" (or a cat, or a dog, or a cow, or a goat, or an etc. etc. etc.), but I'd been able to learn how to bluff my way along in it sufficiently to be able to "fool" other species into accepting me as a social companion. Gods, it was hard, though! All those other species, I liked; and I'd had over two decades of really not liking Homo sapiens very much. H. sapiens, in my experience, were for the most part intolerant, unjust, deceptive, cruel, bullying, back-stabbing, spitefully-gossipy, character-assassinating, thoroughly nasty pieces of work, with some exceptions. And now I had to make an effort to "study" them!
It turned out to be worth it. But I always have to be aware that I'm never going to be totally and naturally fluent in "human", any more than I could be in horse. I do, however, have the advantage that humans can read and write. I don't have to be in the same room with them in order to be able to communicate. I can bluff my way along an awful lot better on-screen than I can in person; but it took years of study to find out what is "species-normal behaviour" for H.sapiens.
P.S. Side effect: on an intellectual, rather than an instinctive, level, I probably now know more about what constitutes "species-normal behaviour" for H. sapiens than most humans do! Heheheheheeeee! Try and learn from me; I can't ever be a "normal human", but I know an awful lot about them now! Pesky (talk) 03:55, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, the thinking past each other thing here is understandable because you are, understandably busy. The people who you feel I am unable to get along with are inevitably people who have serious personal problems which are preventing that from happening, every bit as much but usually more than any lack of skill on my part. For every argument the slapjacks came up with in the RfA, there is almost in every case a serious personal problem that they are having, not all mind you, there were some correct things. In every case, in EVERY CASE, that is Pesky in every case that people are having trouble with me there are other editors who have the same problem and opinion I do about that person or problem. I should write the problems up one by one from the slapjacks and the ok ones, and address them one by one. Not for me, I don't care, and I do not care less about being an admin, because what on earth is the difference ? I do not want to kick ass, but I can kick ass better than any admin here, as I am today. What on earth do I need a tin star sheriffs badge for when I can help people as it is using respect integrity and compassion ? I have no inadequacy issues that I need to compensate for. People want me to take over the job that they would like me to do for them, and that is fine, I do not mind to help when asked. The issues that other people are having with policy, or consensus, or they are too lazy to read are the problems I can't fix by myself. I can't interface with SPI, I can't run an Arbcom case, I can fix a lot of things, but there are some matters that aren't going to settle themselves until people get off their ass and help just a little bit. If they want to assist there, then of course I will help and put through a brief proposal which is impossible to stop so that everyone may have their say. Plus, I might even be outrageous enough to let people know well in advance so that they can slam dunk the whingers and address the concerns that have been raised. I'm happy enough to help people, but if people are making big requests of me then it's more likely to work if they help me too. Penyulap ☏ 04:55, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Meh. At the moment, I have neither the temporal nor emotional resources to do so. I'm sorry if you feel that I have failed you. Pesky (talk) 06:43, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You have not failed me, your just making small assumptions because you care about me and are worried about me. I like that in a critic. Penyulap ☏ 06:46, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I've already seen it, and this is the other half. Together they prove dishonesty. If it was not the intention, both halves should have been in user talk space. They were not. One half was at the SPI. The SPI is no place for partisan statements. This is yet another example of incompetence, and I'm not looking to find any. This came and presented it self in the middle of the SPI. As you can see in some section somewhere above, he has no desire to improve himself, but rather wants to parade this incompetence in front of me without me noticing. Maybe, just maybe, if he started trying to improve himself, rather than sweep everything under the carpet, he might get some help. I can't see that happening anytime soon. Penyulap ☏ 09:40, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
If I can respond to that, one statement does not contradict the other. Any abuse (which I will come to in a moment) was not linked to the multiple account issue, therefore he did not use the multiple accounts for abusive purposes. There was little or no overlap and he declared all accounts.
As to whether the user has harassed you, I can see that in a certain light the amount of attention the editor has paid you could be viewed as harassment, though the first time you appear to have brought it up is at the sock puppet investigation. I have many editors who spend that much time talking to me, yet I appreciate them and do not feel harassed by them. The line is in a different place for every editor and unless you make it clear that you are feeling harassed, then you cannot expect the editor to know that they have crossed that line. Once you made it clear the line had been crossed, I posted to the editors page and told him to back off. Two different issues, two different responses.
Now, I'd like to draw your attention to a similar situation, where you are on the other side of the coin. When you are told by an editor that they feel you are harassing them, you should take that into account. So, for example, when a person says they feel harassed by you, making light of the situation with a stick man pointing a gun at a victim is a VERY bad idea. You may not see that you are harassing the editor, but because they FEEL harassed, you should adjust your behaviour so that they should not feel that way. WormTT(talk) 10:33, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pen, if you spotted that between 19th July and the following day WTT had made the effort of analysing that editor's contributions in depth to see what had actually been done by them, made a reasonable judgment on it, and communicated with the editor, the very least you should have done was to say "Thank you" at some point within the past week. Particularly bearing in mind some of your comments on various people not putting in any effort, not researching, not reading, and all the rest. Maybe you should take a break from editing; or at least notice when other editors are getting very fed up with you. You also need to check whether or not any fresh edit is actually backed up by the original source before asking for a citation, and appreciate when other people are simply trying to improve the flow and readability of prose. As I said, I'm short on spare temporal and emotional resources, so I apologise if I'm sounding a bit more abrupt than you're used to. It doesn't detract from the meaning of what I'm saying. You need to study Homo sapiens.Pesky (talk) 10:50, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How about this, Pesky you're not feeling well, considering the situation of your household, I'm not well considering I couldn't manage to stay awake today long enough to try for the second time to get to the doctor, because something about my thyroid? is not working. So how about worm packs up all this WP:ICANTHEARYOU when you say DESPISE. Stop his deliberately obtuse and stupid antics to provoke me, (actually is it deliberate or are you actually this dense? I DON'T CARE because you are not here to ask for help) asking 'I'm so stupid please explain how I got to be an admin and can lecture Mir on unwanted attention but I just can't help myself, I'm drawn back to everything Penyulap is doing because I am aware he DESPISES me and I just want to antagonise the situation because hey, he needs it, and I'll take advantage of Auntie Pesky as well while I'm at it, because with her son is in a life threatening situation, so she has nothing better to do than deal with Worms ICANTHEARYOU social problems.' Either send me your PAYPAL address and I'll send you some money for a therapist worm or take the hint and come back when Auntie Pesky says she is well enough to help you with your problems, keep at it, and I'll be asking for an interaction ban, on the grounds that YOU CANT HEAR ME and there is no hope for you ever growing out of this awkward stage your going through without community intervention. Ok pumpkin ? Penyulap ☏ 11:44, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap, per that comment, I will not post here past this message, which I make in an administrative capacity. I have received complaints of harassment by you, regarding GabeMc. Although I am not certain that there is harassment going on, I do see problematic behaviour such as this edit. When an editor suggests that they feel harassed, exacerbating the situation with insensitive posts like that and thesetwo is likely to get you blocked. Please do try to stop interacting with GabeMc in the future, and get on doing more constructive stuff. WormTT(talk) 13:04, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Penyulap, your comments to and about Worm here are also beyond what is acceptable. Please stop. I appreciate you're not well, but please stop. Pesky (talk) 13:23, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for agreeing with me that you should indeed stop what you are doing worm. I do not mind people returning to my page, I do not want anyone to feel unwelcome under any circumstances, however I find it impolite that I've been forced to use such extreme language in order to get you to stop. Later, when someone else wants to help you listen to what I have already tried to explain maybe we can try again to assist you to do a better job, but give it a rest for now. Auntie Pesky is upset because I have used such language, in my own defence it has finally worked without having to resort to me asking at a drama board.
Pesky, per my last paragraph, and that he finally (oh lord the relief) has got the message the problem has vanished. When was the last time you saw me get upset or act in a selfish fashion Pesky ? there is always a good reason, and I'm sorry it has had to go this far to bring relief.
Bish, (sitting back from the keyboard) (took a good 5 minutes) well, I can't say that I feel that much better for the 5 minutes but it did help somewhat, but I do feel a lot better that I have one less problem for now, so that is a load off. Maybe I need one of those stress things, or if you my friends give me a way to let you know where the stress is coming from without people saying I'm making a list. Something that you need to know Bish, and Pesky, and my good stalkers, and you will not believe or understand and it's almost futile that I tell you, but maybe there are some that will understand, and so I mention so that they can better formulate help, time is different in my perception. It doesn't work for me the same way it works for you. you have a linear focus I find, but I do not. If you read my userpage, it is precisely the same no matter what point in time that you read it from. Go back in the history, go forward in time to you the reader years from now reading these words to you, and it is the same page and the same message. It only strengthens in a way, as the path flows. To 'give me a break' is to simply solve any one problem that other people are insisting I help with, or to help deal with a problem editor or editors that I am dealing with on behalf of others. Take worm off my shoulders and I can stand up straight again, don't you see ? I am here again.
GabeMC has been splashing gasoline from one end of the project to the other, I've been assisting him to tone it down, and it is working. The strategies that I have been using are unorthodox that is, well yeah what am I saying they look like I landed from another planet yes I admit that freely. I would be happy to discuss in private the strategies and co-ordinate with anyone in good standing if they so desire, but as to what I am doing, the answer is has way too much detail unless you want to listen for hours because the strategies have so many paths and markov chain calculations and I don't know, go read game theory in wikibooks for an hour and come back so there are some shortcuts to an explanation, The strategies I use are not the same as you guys use, they aren't like IF THEN GOTO by the old books, the people causing trouble at least provide me immense comic relief when they attempt to understand my strategies to stop them, because their reasoning is so immensely ludicrous. and no matter how often they fail in their attempts to go against policy they fall flat on their ass because none of my strategies for dealing with moving targets are based on fixed strategy. Templates, docs, wording of policy, all that stuff is static, but my solutions are turn based. Go read Game theory I'm serious, at least give it a scan through ok ? Please just read that article at least to get some idea ok ?
Argh. I can't tell you guys where I am at without giving away the game to the opposition. you need to hook up or something if you want to measure properly my real state. I have, and use so many personas to assist it's too hard for you to tell if you don't just ask. Asking me if I am ok would work perfectly, but I am afraid that possibly you may not listen to me. Does thisⓘ sound like I am ok, or does it sound like I'm a little neurotic as an actor and I'm being hassled by a stand-over-man who cuts me off short ? You are looking at the artificial persona which is required to get the job done, it is supposed to deceive the people who need to be deceived in order to quiet them down. I tailor myself to the required mask to get the job done fastest. Although some are pretty much me, like on the mother Teresa talkpage, that's just me and just compassion from one human to another. I can give you plenty of examples of different masks, but it's all TLDR, but just ask. 60% of the work is already done on GabeMC, and seeing how nobody was stepping in to stop the rampage, mostly because they were in a state somewhere between horror and awe, well of course I helped out. You guys think I am doing this for what purpose ? because I want whatever case it is, and God's honest truth I don't actually know who is wanting which way around in the whole thing. I don't know if GabeMC wants Capitals or small letters, it's rather funny, ok it's a LOT funny but it's true and if you have a look I show no clue as to that part of the problem. I am only addressing the the friction, basically the entirely broken relations between so very many editors. but hey, please, seriously, you guys want that job, it's all yours, say the word and I'll leap at the chance to have nothing more to do with it, much to the horror and despair of the many editors of the article. Silencing me is easy, you just hand over control of that whole part of the project to that minority and I'm nice and quiet and sweet, just say the word guys. pity about the rest of the editors. yeah, your turn to pause for 5 minutes to think about that. Penyulap ☏ 15:51, 27 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, the species I have been referencing in some conversations, but not others, is not the mutant/human thing, there is another one, it turned up in private conversation about new kinds of tactics used to disrupt the project by single editors with deft skills and an industrious nature. So the word species might mean the horses, the spectrum, or the tactics as the context dictates, I just thought you should know. Penyulap ☏ 05:06, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)
If we can succeed in this worthy endeavor, the result will be a change in the course of our income, lifestyle and relationships, and in how we feel about the things of value as well as the times of challenge. If we can alter the way we perceive, judge and decide upon the main issues of life, then we can dramatically change our lives.
Yes, I understand about the subspecies you're referring to, and, like you, don't want to hand over a full instruction booklet to them. Which is why I've not talked about that particular "subspecies". All I'm saying is that in order to get gun teams and strategists and others on board to understand and deal with that subspecies, you need to study the H.sapiens species to a sufficient level to get those teams wanting to come on board. Teamwork requires ... well ... teamwork. Nobody can recruit a team without being able to communicate effectively with, and motivate, that team. Whether it's a husky-team, a mule-team, or a hominid-team. Pesky (talk) 07:04, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)(pre box reply)Fairly stated and agreed, I decided yesterday to do some major editing to myself as it's not worth the trouble to go after the new ones. If a horse got into my house and was smashing everything up it would be the natural tendency for the strongest people in the room to protect the children and deal with the problem. Seemed counter-intuitive to put my feet up and enjoy the spectacle like everyone else seems to be doing, whatever, now pass me some popcorn while he's stomping on the little guys.Penyulap ☏ 07:29, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)
As far as connecting up, well ? wtf are you guys waiting for, if you want me to speak plainly in your own baudrate and protocol and nothing else then open a direct line. Otherwise just keep crosstalking responding to messages not meant for you. sheesh, and people think I'm dumb. Penyulap ☏ 07:34, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)
So work on a concise summary of what you have. Then copyedit it and cut it down by a third. Then put the diffs in. Then see if you can cut it down to bullet-points and diffs only. And then email it to someone who knows the subject inside out and is likely to be able to see what you're seeing. Provided, of course, that you can get it into a format easy for anyone to understand. Be clear. Be precise. Be definite. But don't email it to me, OK? Part of getting something done is finding the right person, with the right motivation, and delegating. Pesky (talk) 14:39, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No.
I have given it great consideration and this is not meant to work, and I will not assist to patch a broken process. This is not possible or logical. A one-way process is completely self-defeating. It is unacceptable. Penyulap ☏ 10:37, 29 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Indeed. There is the exploit that many newbies do not know that adding a space to an article is a null edit used to make an edit summary. the same newbie who didn't read legit sock policy and started the sock investigation against me says on this talkpage (don't know if it is archived or not) that it is vandalism or words to that effect (name is binkster I think). You can follow the links on the prototype community review template at the top of the page I think, or through the RfA, look for the threats to vandalise, and the links I put into the quote, they lead to the april fools day explaination of how I used it as reverse psychology to stop a persistent vandal on the ISS article.
In the end, the (****) admin had no idea what was going on and just blocked me for nothing in particular, as you can see on the prototype. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 28 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You think you could be a sock? How would you like to have somebody with their hand up yer' umm... back? Space, between his final frontiers. Commas can do it too! To exemplify this I saw this demonstrated, once: "He helped his uncle jack off the the horse". To everybody's amazement, thinking they were compeletly familiar with the two possible meanings and knowing what to expect next, another passerby asked. "Why did they kill the horse?" 99.251.125.65 (talk) 00:04, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am too lazy to check all the details, sorry about that, but at least now I know what you are referring to. I think Binkster is Binksternet. Arcandam (talk) 00:30, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
99 I suggest you pack up your wicked wicked sense of humour and head over to Auntie Pesky'a page for a spanking I'm certain she'd enjoy it ;) Penyulap ☏ 02:44, 29 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Is that one meant to have only two dynamics normally, or three ? I read three straight off, but it looks like it's meant to be just two because of passerby. Penyulap ☏ 04:23, 29 Jul 2012 (UTC)
The statement "this looks to me a subtle form of lobbying. It's definitely a slippery slope addition;" would be a fair statement, especially the first half. It IS subtle lobbying, and I fully agree with you there. I created it as a viral message and have been incredibly pleased with the viral dynamic that it is travelling on through the project. I couldn't be happier to tell the truth. But here where you say "if we start down this road, such processes may be overwhelmed with visuals and cues when they're supposed to stay inside the topic." I disagree with you completely. Not many others can or will be willing or able to do it. There have always been experienced editors who use visuals in serious discussions as a form of lobbying and to disrupt the focus of the over-focused.
As for canvassing, I actually want to know what you mean, not upset or anything, I genuinely want to understand what you mean by that, as I always though canvassing was along the lines of Mass-mailouts and so on, whereas anyone can produce a discussion finishing argument by using enough merit.
Oh btw, please do feel free to go delete my comments or edit them as you see fit, especially where you are right. Myself, I don't think it any big deal as the place I did it, I'm sure you will agree was a completely forgone conclusion. I just never like BITE when I see it, I hate BITE with a vengeance beyond what is normal, and so I'll tease you about it where I know full well I can get away with it as a form of camaraderie. To make up for it I guess, and I'm sure sometimes you are depressed at gnawing the hearts out of the newbies like the bloodsucking collection of vampire zombies you deletionists are, I could look at ways where you can improve your templates. Or on a personal level for you, where you see someone who is really upset about their article going down the gurgler, you can call me to rescue their spirits if you want to. I might not be able to cheer up Andy or ZxxZxxZ, but I have considerable skill in that department. I think Jaguar is a good example, something in the order of thousands of articles of his were getting the chop, I closed up the enormous wood-stacking exercise at ANI as a slam dunk delete, but consoled him and reassured him personally and although he stated and believed he would never return, he is still with us today as we big names all rally around to support him, as well as being a friend of mine I am pleased to say. Penyulap ☏ 02:16, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Just had a look at its effect and it appears to have gotten some editors to have put on their thinking caps, so I guess placing it into a forgone conclusion wasn't a good idea when the conclusion was going to be delete. I think I'd best not do that again unless the conclusion will inevitably be keep, and then they can go off wearing their thinking caps and do some good. I apologise deeply for the harm that I have caused there, it is fair to say that it did influence those other editors in an inappropriate way. Penyulap ☏ 02:29, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
To my eyes, this edit falls into the category of negative campaigning, not canvassing (though WP:CAMPAIGNING links to the canvassing page). Since ideally consensus is developed by the strength of argument, not mere headcounting, campaigning inside of a formal process like AfD seems antithetical to the spirit of WP:VOTE. Further, a disparaging, labeling statement like "down with the deletionists" tends for foster a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality, a bad place for a formal process to venture. Finally, nobody has suggested a desire to edit or censor your comments. I suggested that the edit I linked might be out of place in a formal procedure. I asked you a question ("Don't you think that chiding other editors for their delete assertions is a bit inappropriate?") which so far you've chosen to ignore. I requested the opinion of an admin exposed to the edit. That admin has requested you refrain from making such an edit again, and has provided an explanation why not. You have proceeded to defend your actions by labeling some who assert delete occasionally as "depressed" and "blood sucking vampires." I hope your apology above is given in earnest. Given your recent block, justified or otherwise, I suggest you tone your bold attempts at humor down sufficiently to allow yourself some wiggle room. BusterD (talk) 02:48, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
well, building one block on the foundation of another unjustified block is ever bit as silly as giving an unjustified block in the first place, and what is the point in attempting to avoid the unjustifiable ?
WP:CAMPAIGNING as it stands now is the biggest pile of shit I have yet seen, as it describes all commentary on any subject at all across the entire wikipedia, here it is for posterity:
Campaigning is an attempt to sway the person reading the message, conveyed through the use of tone, wording, or intent. While this may be appropriate as part of a specific individual discussion, it is inappropriate to canvass with such messages.
It's rather absurd and needs the rest of it written in, probably needs bringing up in on the talkpage if someone skilled does it, but leaving it half finished like that is just letting people guess. It is the worst thing that I have seen since the
On the same page it is better defined elsewhere, it says "Campaigning: Posting a notification of discussion that presents the topic in a non-neutral manner."
But re-reading several times, do you mean to say that I am using the template to alert other users to the debate itself, to change the foregone conclusion ? I do have stalkers that is for certain, and not of the 'likes me' variety a lot of the time too, but I'm not alerting anyone through using the template. I've agreed that it is inappropriate, and do apologise, but not because it's canvassing, it's not. I apologise because it appears possible that it's made people stop and think.
I respect whatever you feel about the friendly jesting with 'vampires' and the 'boo ! hiss !' sort of thing, some people don't get other people's humour, and that is OK. But I feel a wide number of editors would classify it as camaraderie. I know and respect the good work that deletionists do in keeping the project from becoming a sowhatopedia, but we have to recognise that for the editors who are writing these articles that are being deleted, it is a cause of editor loss, all reports we have at wikiproject editor retention suggest that AfD's can put good editors out of the project permanently. If you can suggest the best way to keep them here and editing better articles rather than giving up, then we'd love your help at WikiProject Editor RetentionPenyulap ☏ 03:18, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I've joined the project; thanks for the invite. I'd ask you to consider the alternate possibility that inappropriate sarcasm or irony might on occasion be viewed itself as a sort of BITING. BusterD (talk) 03:41, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure you're preaching to the converted there BusterD. In fact I'm sure I'm sure, I'm so sure that I'm sure, that I'm sure everyone else is sure too. I'm sure I'm sure and everyone else is sure as well. I'm sure of it. Penyulap ☏ 03:46, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Glad to see you two are talking about this. I guess I was wrong to say canvassing, but it would be appreciated if you avoid using such templates (for technical reasons too, I guess, although the Rabbit could tell me if I'm right or wrong). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:14, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Interlanguage wikipedia link within artile discussion
A user named Yaplunpe was trolling ANI and other boards tonight, and was blocked within 2 hours. Since the username is an anagram of yours I wanted to let you know. I'd be surprised if it turned out to be a coincidence. The "master" account is only about two weeks days old, so I suspect there might be someone else behind it, someone who knows you. ☮Soap☮00:36, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My immediate reaction to your comment is that it's a critic of mine without much in the way of available resources.It's obvious that a machine made the anagram,which is like a bit lame when a decent anagram is so easy to do and funny besides, and their idea had obviously come from the recent addition to my userpage, suggesting that if my friends did it, then it would be funny, and well, isn't that the truth (Bish, where are you, anagrams please anyone ?). Yes, you'll get that from now on because I've given the idea to them on my userpage, feel free to edit my userpage, it says so at the top. If it keeps up I'll have to twist their minds into editing articles properly just to try and prank me.
Looking at the contributions, the editor was attracted to me at my recent breach testing and may not have read my userpage at all, but it is an imitation of me never the less that is certain. The RfA threads are a complete honeypot for socially inept social climbers, not suggesting that this is one of them in particular, but I'm speaking generally. The RfA process is in no way reflective of the wider community because it is such an attractive process to some sectors of society. Penyulap ☏ 02:16, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Keep em coming, otherwise Pesky wins. Do you want to give the others a handicap against your talent with an extra letter ? or do you just want to see them suffer and despair ? Penyulap ☏ 04:36, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Assumptions are sometimes right sometimes wrong, and after a long discussion, an apology has been offered, and accepted, and we can move on. I look forward to working together with this editor in the hopefully not too distant future. Penyulap ☏ 18:56, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
"I have observed that Mlm42, Mir, and wingtip are 'apparently' 3 editors. Although, I have a pending sockpuppet cleanup yet to complete." Please explain in detail to me what you mean in that statement.
Yes, I am apparently the only editor I'm aware of that is trying to help you and WD get along in the recent weeks. Did I overlook any others? No one has posted in the Spaceflight portal regarding this issue lately, nor on your talk page, nor on WD's talk page. If I missed someone, it was only because I wasn't looking in the places that made most sense for a discussion to take place.
And now you are accusing me of of sockpuppetry, or so it seems. Is that the reason behind the hypothetical question you left on my talk? (The one to which answer's you have yet to reply, by the way) Well, you saw my reply, start WP:SPI. But since you haven't, it would appear you do not care for my reply and are as I assumed, are waiting to bust me in a bigger way. How nice. Well professor X, if you truly had your professed abilities, you would know I am not a sockpuppet. I would like to know exactly why you think I am one. --WingtipvorteXPTT∅14:26, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Is Wingtipvortex your only account with which you have edited wikipedia ? Penyulap ☏ 14:42, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
hmm...ⓘ was it a tough question ? Penyulap ☏ 15:14, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Ummm Ummmm Ummmmm, I have to think for an hour before I can answer that one, ,.... ok .dfg.weg...c.b..c....g..wr (sorry shaaaky ahhands) Penyulap ☏ 15:33, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Ok, so I won't wait the whole hour, this is like, way too much fun. here is an innocent question, you wouldn't happen to have, say, MlM42's history in your browser now would you ? do you two know each other, ever visited each other, been to your house has he ? Penyulap ☏ 15:43, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Your humor is not funny when you are making such allegations. What? Have you never met a good and helpful person with good intentions? So when one actually comes your way and goes out of his way to help you, spending hours and hours of his time to clear up the issues you have with other editors, you just assume he has a hidden agenda? My mistake Penyulap. You can be sure I won't be making it again. Now, tell me why you think I am a sockpuppet. I won't be taking your word for it. And just so you can't say I'm not denying it, I will: I do not know MlM42, in WP or RL. --WingtipvorteXPTT∅15:48, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You do seem rather upset, would you care to let it rest for a while so you can regain your demeanour before discussing further ? Penyulap ☏ 15:53, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I get the impression you think that I'm accusing 3 editors at one time, do you think we could wait until the other two are online at the same time to have an in-depth running discussion ? It might give you more time to calm down.. regain composure, grow a long beard perhaps, that sort of thing. Penyulap ☏ 15:57, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Not at all. In fact, I have yet to shave this morning, so I'm off to a good start. Upset: yes. You've questioned my integrity as an editor. Lost my composure: no.
So you weren't accusing 3 editors at a time. You think you are just accusing one. I know you are accusing me. I would love to talk to the two other editors, but since I have never talked to them, I do not know what time they are usually online. Why don't we start it now and they can join in later? I'd like you to start by telling me the reason you think I am a sockpuppet. What evidence do you have of this? Simply that I am the only editor who has taken your side of an issue? Proven you right to a few editors who did not like you? I have never done anything against you, and yet here you are assuming bad faith. So post your evidence, or start SPI. Also, answer this question: Are you willing to accept that I am not a sockpuppet? Or is your evidence so conclusive that you simply know you are right and are unwilling to accept any other outcome than your ideas? --WingtipvorteXPTT∅16:11, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree totally there, you are off to a good start shaving this morning. Hey, do you wanna race Mir and MlM42 in a beard growing contest ? I think it would be a nail-biting close competition right up to the end, but who would win at the last moment, would it be a photo-finish ? Gosh I would give anything to see that picture.
"I know you are accusing me." I'm not going to accuse you of knowing that I am accusing you, I'd never accuse anyone of that, but when you say "So you weren't accusing 3 editors at a time. You think you are just accusing one." I'm wondering if that is an accusation you're making that I am thinking I am just accusing one. Not that I am actually accusing you of making an accusation that I am thinking I am just accusing one. I'm just asking is all, are you accusing me of thinking ? Penyulap ☏ 16:45, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Well, too late now. I went to shave expecting to find a detailed answer from you. You continue to assume we are the same person. That is fine, you are entitled to your opinions. Just as I am entitled to know exactly why you think I am a sockpuppet. So cut the sarcasm and get me some thorough answers. --WingtipvorteXPTT∅16:47, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You better believe it is too late !! Even if I was to assume that you're not accusing me of continuing to assume, which I indeed do assume that you are because of your stated assumption, but even if you didn't, you've definitely hurt my feelings. You accuse me of thinking, and that is an awful thing to say to a person who has put in such long and valiant efforts to create a flawless persona of a convincing village idiot. You can't imagine just how proud I am of the long battle won, and I've had to face with people like Pesky hounding me relentlessly, badmouthing me across so many forums, even on Uncle Jimbos page. I'm going to stop now, the tears are going to short circuit the keyboard if I don't, I'll only, no, I don't know if I should go on to tell you what I was going to... Penyulap ☏ 17:02, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I don't hear any apology forthcoming, why don't I hear anything ? Hmm ? I have two diagrams here to post, and I am not posting either one until you do. Penyulap ☏ 17:19, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You seem to have the impression that you are playing games with me. Why aren't you willing to discuss what you think is evidence of my sockpuppetry? This is around the sixth time I ask for it. --WingtipvorteXPTT∅17:24, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to move forward and discuss the issue, but you seem unwilling to apologise for you remark which I have made clear has hurt my feelings, if you're not willing to say a simple 'I'm sorry' then I can't see how we can be friendly about this and move forward. Penyulap ☏ 17:28, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I see, only your feelings are in question here. My original request of you was to explain why you though I was involved in sockpuppetry. You didn't, and each reply you continued to imply I was. In hopes of maintaining a civil discussion, I apologize for hurting your feelings. And I truly do feel sorry, despite the lack of humanity you have shown towards me. But it is very clear you do not want to discuss the evidence, much less show it. You are trying to use this event to change how SPIs are conducted and are afraid of showing the evidence because you think some sockmaster would benefit from the evidence and further learn how to work the system. The thing is, SPIs aren't going to change just because you want them to, so if you don't bring up the evidence, the worst that can happen is there are more editors that don't like you. --WingtipvorteXPTT∅17:44, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well all right then I accept your apology for accusing me of thinking, and we can move on now, You mention you think that I 'think some sockmaster would benefit from the evidence and further learn how to work the system.' well yes, it is obvious that you think that I think that, and I think that it's not a bad thought that you think that I think that. I have been thinking myself that I do actually think that, so I see no reason why you shouldn't think that you shouldn't continue to think that I think that. What do you think, should we agree that we think it's a good idea to think that a sockmaster could indeed benefit if I told him all the many ways he is going so god awfully spectacularly horribly "I can't believe I can actually see it from low Earth orbit, but there it is coming up on the starboard nadir side." with a cherry on top and a subway station underneath kind of wrong way. I think if I mentioned all of it, maybe it would be too much, so maybe I can just mention a few things, or show some illustrations instead. What do you think I think you think ? Penyulap ☏ 18:32, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap, when you actually want to talk to me, properly reply and leave me a talkback. I see no reason why I should continue this nonconstructive conversation. If you care enough, you'll submit your evidence to SPI, where you will be proven wrong (at least regarding me). Unless you feel inclined to share your evidence, don't contact me again. I'll go my way, you go on yours. --WingtipvorteXPTT∅18:44, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Like It's good to go, I had originally intended it as an essay, but then thought to write it as an article so that people would keep their little fingers off of it. So there is simply no need of the accidentally created one. Thank you for cleaning it up. Penyulap ☏ 19:00, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap, you're a good editor. The problem is that you need to read the tea leaves, the writing on the wall, and look at the vultures circling outside. Please just drop all of these disputes, apologize, and find a nice stub to create and expand. I don't want to see you blocked, but there are multiple fingers hovering over block buttons at this point. Please, I know people can misunderstand things you do and say, and I've seen that happen to you several times. But, you need to know the right time to fight your battles, and this isn't it. Viriditas (talk) 21:49, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I can only second that first sentence. You are a good and smart editor and I loved your contributions to ACTA a few months ago and it is weird to see you being brought to ANI on apparently completely different matters. I hope it all gets sorted out; you and the community deserve that (TBH: no idea how exactly, because I didn't read up to the recent events....)! L.tak (talk) 22:56, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.
It is clear that you are not here to help the project; or that at the very least you are no longer here to do so. The only thing I have seen you doing for the past week is disruptively and wilfully waste the community's time in a large number of venues. This stops now.
As usual, other admins are welcome to review this block; and may lift it with my blessing. I expect that unless you make a convincing argument that you understand how continual hounding, disruptive behaviour and trolling have no place here, that will not happen any time soon. — Coren(talk)23:31, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Coren, I agree; I was going to do the same thing. Penyulap, I'm sorry it had to come to this. After that weird SPI I could see that something was afoot, and whatever it was this is where it ended up. Take care. Drmies (talk) 23:38, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I hate this, but I can't disagree with the decision. I like you Penyulap, you know this, and I don't even require understanding you in order to like you. But this has been a really disruptive period, and you need to take a break and figure some things out. I could have easily stayed away and remained silent, but I think (and hope) you trust me enough to know that I wouldn't say this unless I really believed it was necessary. It would have been dishonest if I didn't come and say this to you now.
What Dennis said. Even though most of our interaction was somewhat antagonistic, you never gave me a reason to dislike you as a person. Whatever it is you're going through, I wish you nothing but good things in the future. Evanh2008(talk|contribs)00:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid I must agree with this block. Just to get this out of the way, this has nothing to do with our discussion about your RfA (though I will admit, the RfA itself is a part of why I support this block), it has to do with your recent behavior. Several editors have expressed concern that your behavior has been less than what is expected of editors here. Other editors have pointed out where your behavior has gone wrong, so I won't echo them; what I will say is that, although I do support this block, I sympathize with you. Life's stressful; there's no denying it. Heck, I went through a rough patch in life about a year ago and steered clear of Wikipedia for a while. It happens to all of us. But you can't let it affect the way you treat other people. No matter how you're feeling, you should always treat others (and Wikipedia) with respect, even if you don't agree with them or if you think they're being unreasonable. I do respect you, and I hope life picks up for you soon. :) Kindest regards, The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs01:21, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is very sad that some WP people have to commit suicide to get their asses out of the WikiGame. It is quite obvious what you did to yourself, here. You appear the type that cares so deeply for the project and other people that you took so much stress upon yourself, personally for other's woes. I only knew you for a very short time, and you were a little "off-the-wall" for me and probably WP but your past work here was not wasted and you deserve your break. I know it will haunt you and you will want to come back, so I regret this has happened to you but it was, obviously your dying wish. I wish the whole ordeal didn't appear so nasty towards you and do not totally agree with the outcome, as being too harsh. You'll be back 'cause I know you can't stay away too long without itching. Best of luck. WP was a better place for your efforts. You have won with your time off and you did prove some points about the failure of the system. No system is perfect on all fronts, anyway. All the best and heal those nerves. Empaths deserve some R&R frequently. Revert your brain, three times. 99.251.125.65 (talk) 03:27, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pen, getting the ill-health issue sorted out may well cause a vast improvement for you (in all areas, not just in here). Remember I asked you a few weeks ago if there was something going on in Real Life™ which was affecting you? Get that sorted, and in the meantime, draw up that (concise, non-verbose) list of things for an expert to look at. Although you definitely made one mistake in identification, I still feel you may well be onto something which needs further investigation. Get yourself well and stabilised, first priority. Chase the medics to get onto everything (sometimes they need to be chased). And I'll look forward to having you back once everything's stable again, and we can see the best of you. Pesky (talk) 05:10, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry to have observed much of this spiral. In total, I agree with the IP and the deep sentiments attached. I respect every name I've seen comment here and that is significant. My comment is that if ever Penyulap makes a reasonable request to be allowed to return to constructive editing, I hope that matter is not discarded and would rather see community involvement in the yay or nay. IMO 76StratString da Broke da (talk) 09:05, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Like Coren said, admins are free to review the block. As other admins have said, right now, your situation seems problematic. I sincerely hope that you take the time to think some things over thoroughly before requesting the block be lifted. We all know that this site has flaws, and most of us want, like you, to help fix at least some of them. Unfortunately, at least recently, your behavior seems to have been creating more problems than it solved. Whether you choose to return is, of course, up to you. I think in time you will. I also hope that, when you do, you will find a way to raise your concerns and proposed solutions in a way which is less likely to create the difficulties some of your recent conduct has done. John Carter (talk) 19:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Heh. No active admin would dare to remove a block by Coren unless it was an obscene, blatant misjustice. Even if they have complete faith in Coren, they know damn well that at least someone is going to hold it against them a couple of years down the line. So, since this block has a reason behind it, even if it can be disagreed with in good faith, even though you'll notice that none of the agreers so far had actually blocked you for these reasons... guess you're screwed. Peculiar cause if you take some of thse SPI guys at their words, they profess to believe you have untraceable sockpuppets that are now to destory the wikipedia in revenge. Let's see if that happens... EggCentric21:25, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No Egg. Penyulap has said several times that they have sockpuppets that a CU wouldn't turn up (which is easy enough), and has said several times both that they have vandalised the project and not been identified, and that they intend to vandalise the project in the future. Lets see if that happens, or if Penyulap was just venting electronic gas. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly - it's more complicated than that. It really is. I don't understand why people can't see it. Howerver: Can you show me a diff where he threatens to do damage with undisclosed sockpuppets? I may be wrong. EggCentric01:38, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(Although I would point out that given blocks theoretically have not the first thing to do with justice, but are purely to do with damage limitation, if the alternative is allowing random socks doing random vandalism, or allowing one identified user to make article edits under the watchful eye of tens if not hundreds, the "correct" option is to permit the identified user to do the damage and immediately revert) EggCentric01:41, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, I know that Pen was hunting around some possible socks. I also know that he sometimes cracks stupid jokes. I think it may be possible that those remarks of his have been wildly misinterpreted. I think he "has" a list of suspected socks not his own which CU is unlikely to show up. I don't think he has a little drawer of malicious / disruptive Pensocks, at all. I think he may be able to sniff socks in much the same way as I can sniff copyvios. Seriously, when I was doing a stack of npp, I'd open up an article, and almost the first reaction would be that my hackle-hairs would prickle and I'd say to myself "That's a copyvio." Sometimes it would take me a long time to track down the original, and in many cases I couldn't tell you, without having to consciously analyse it first, what it was that triggered the copyvio-detector instinct. But it was certainly there, and pretty darned reliable. In the space of three months I tagged over 100 G12's which were then removed. Almost all of them a result of that immediate, instinctive reaction, when I opened the page. I think Pen may very well have the same thing for socks. Sooo ... in short ... I think he may just have been saying that he "has" them, in that he has a list of suspects which CU wouldn't show up (or possibly wouldn't). Not that he has them, in that they're his own. The other alternative is that offbeat sense of humour, and that it was purely a joke. Pesky (talk) 04:29, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're right on the money Pesky, and I'd add that there is no point me adding to conversations where people don't listen, same as I said about Alan at ANI and the whole jesus analogue. I phoned out of pure frustration the doctors just then, and we're going to try to co-ordinate something immediately. Penyulap ☏ 04:38, 2 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Hugz! Yup, I was pretty darned sure I was "right on the money" there. It's nice that you're online; I've been a bit concerned about you. It's great that you've been able to contact the doctors, brilliant. Get on top of that as thoroughly as you can; that's very important, and likely to make a huge difference to the way you feel, as well as to other things, lol! And always remember that even if you can't post your socky-suspicions and evidence here (on a WP:BEANS basis), you can hand-pick a seriously good CU person, and (only once you've reduced the evidence to it's most readable format!), email it to them. They may then be able to pick it up and run with it. Pesky (talk) 05:14, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The next question is: who is an absolute wizard (or witch?) at SPI's. Someone working over there with a similar "nose" for socks. That's who you need to find and give that evidence to. But, be aware ... the innocent prisoner's dilemma applies to false-positive results on the duck test. Pesky (talk) 05:27, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"I rejoice that so many of us can understand those who we cannot
understand. While I always had one foot upon the digital earth, and
one foot in the digital heaven, and now I have left to try to prepare
the way for those who may follow me there, I hope that we can once
again understand what we cannot understand, and if we cannot do it in
the place I try to prepare, then I hope we can cross paths again just
the same before I lift my other foot from the Real earth beneath us." video
I still have no access to medical services, if there is one talent I have it's finding dilemmas to be stuck in. Travel for me is difficult and extremely dangerous at the best of times, and although friends could help, there is no way of co-ordinating with the doctors (some on holiday/break/whatever) at the other end to make sure there is someone to see. Penyulap ☏ 04:28, 2 Aug 2012 (UTC)
And I certainly have no desire whatsoever to return to this petty place. Penyulap ☏ 04:28, 2 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Pen, you needto try and move Heaven and Earth to find medical services, or to locate someone else who can move them for you.
(yeah ok, so that title is a good idea, I started laughing as I wrote it, so that makes it so)
Health, no change. The rattling received from the un-nerving trip kept me awake quite nicely. 'conflicting medical conditions prevent treatment at this time'. Maybe next week, maybe a better doctor, maybe nothing will change fiik.
(reading other pages, seeing Andy is having trouble) meanwhile who cares if I can see socks, I don't care, they hardly bother me as I can wrap them up like a parcel into a closure readers and non-readers alike can enjoy, their long term antics don't bother me, the only time it does is when it would clearly bother other editors in the majority as well, but it doesn't bother anyone enough to assist, so seriously why should I care at all.
Your processes are broken, nobody wants help fixing them, pretty much any solution for any problem is given the brushoff. I put it down to cultural traits alone. The system is horribly broken in just so many ways, and when someone can make the broad insightful connections between fields, it's impossible to say 'I don't understand, can you explain it' or 'I don't understand, but I figure you might' it's a matter of everyone here has all the answers already if it is something they cannot understand then it's 'Not really a topic here.' or any of the dozens of proposals that get left hanging because there is simply no chance for 20% of average housewives to understand foreign policy on trade tariffs and so nobody can !vote on it.
Who cares what I'm good at, being fair, spi, finding common ground, compassion, forgiveness, camaraderie, respect for people I do not agree with, whatever, it's all not a topic here, and nobody wants my help.
Coren might have one thing in his stitch-up correct, the 'not here to build an encyclopaedia', it has the dynamic that says 'fixing an encyclopaedia' and 'saving an encyclopaedia' is just not a topic here. Because hey, look at all the graphs and charts and research, they all support the delusion that this place is not failing and never will, don't they ? Penyulap is just being paranoid yet again citing all the research from the foundation because spoink there is nothing wrong that needs fixing here. Penyulap is fighting to save the project <spoink> penyulap is fighting. Penyulap is trying to fix things <spoink> there is nothing broken, must be trolling or something. Penyulap is trying to put what you can't understand into concepts you can <spoink> not a topic here.
I was attracted by the international space station, it's an intricate system, or rather a massively complex one, or whatever the term is that they use which just doesn't sound right. What they are trying to convey when they use the term with the space station is that it is not like a nuclear submarine or a computer (circuit boards, ic manufacturing semiconductors, software over the top and soforth) it is an order of magnitude beyond all other complex systems because it is a massively intricate complex of complex systems and co-ordination, which I think the Russians (who built 11 stations one after the other) and the Japanese (whose scientific co-ordination between the universities and the lab, and design of the tele-presence and facilities onboard and so on is breathtaking) have mastered well. The article needed help to my eyes, because it was all hype. In the words of a different editor, it 'reads like a NASA brochure' or in the FAR guys opinion it relies heavily upon a single source. Whatever, long since addressed at least in part. Then I found another system, not anywhere near as complex, but certainly in need of fixing that is for sure. The only puzzle is to work out how to go about preserving it for as long as is practically possible (Like MIR, which towards the end, over 50% of crew time was consumed with maintenance and repairs, but it was kept alive and productive until it had to be replaced) because there is still a lot of systems which function and can keep on functioning (like solar arrays / new content)
I love ironies, the whole 'oh we want to talk to blocked/leaving/disillusioned editors but we don't want to talk to them, that's why we indef blocked them' You think that is not hilarious ? seriously irony cracks me up it really does.
Meanwhile I like the finishing touches how PALZ must also be suffering from stress to, and so, as a completely helpful bot who does no harm and is unlikely to, his run was interrupted when it got to English wikipedia. I've read before how people who leave or get blocked or whatever are kind enough to leave their tools running, and then people have mouths open looking at each other trying to decide what to do.
Glad to see that it applies to PALZ as well. ooh yeah. LikePenyulap ☏ 17:17, 2 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Don't worry Tony, your work is not gone for good, I can get it back for you, it's not lost. The thing is that they don't actually want everything in the encyclopaedia, but we can ask about how we can incorporate that kind of work into the project, we can ask for consideration of the statistical data at the very least, as aircraft safety is an incredibly well researched subject itself, I'd like to help you ask about this, it will take a bit of time though, and it might be better if steam is not pouring out your ears while we start a discussion, so I'm wondering, if it is ok, that we first find your article, and give you time to calm down a little first, before we look at ways to incorporate it into the project ? how do you feel about those ideas ? Penyulap ☏ 15:43, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Desteaming a bit… I have added references to my draft User:Tony Mach/1980 Kazan Kamov-27 crash landing, especially about the rumors. I still think the rumors alone make this article notable, as they illustrate the state of Soviet society quite well. As to the question whether this article is notable by wikipedia's aircraft crash rules: The investigation concluded that one cause of the crash was the absence of additional fuel tanks at helicopter ferry flights – don't know if they changed it, but as I read the rules, this would make the article notable. Don't know if that'll convince those lickspittle bureaucrats. Tony Mach (talk)
ooh oh, you'd like my friend Rich, look at what he wrote, it is so unbelievably cool. It made my eyes water and my brain itch first time I read it, he crafts so many dynamics with words it's flawless brilliance. But I must read Dr Zhivago, I don't think I have, and I do love that humour. Btw, I don't think you can call them lickspittle bureaucrats, it's too complimentary, they're lickspittle admins I believe, I'll see if I can find the link to the glossary that explains that. Penyulap ☏ 17:16, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I wanted to ask you what you think when one could resubmit the Kamov crash article – I feel like the article is a child of mine now and I don't want to see it killed off by those rule huggers. But now they send you to Siberia for not being in line with the party – for your best, and for the best of society, as they insist. Oh, well.
I have read some of the discussions regarding the docking adapters, and en.wikipedia is so US/NASA centric that it hurts. You don't have everything right (I think the chinese would dock to the USOS, if they could come over their sino-phobia/commie-phobia in DC), but those flag-waving red-necks are so wrong.Tony Mach (talk) 11:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Penyulap, I've just removed your access to this talk page. I'm sorry to have had to do it, because I think you meant no harm with your comments, but if you need medical help and time away from Wikipedia, you can't get either of those by continuing to post here about your thoughts, what edits you'd like to see made, or what other editors are doing. "Time away from Wikipedia" means just that - time away, not time continuing to throw energy into your talk page when you ought to be devoting that energy to getting well. I really urge you to take Pesky's advice as far as moving heaven and earth to get whatever medical attention you need. Spend your energy there, spend your energy on real life, spend your energy on rebuilding your sense of peace. When you're recharged, healed, and ready to pick up the reins again, you can contact the Arbcom Ban Appeals Subcommittee and ask for the talk page lock and/or your block to be lifted. By contacting Arbcom, you'll get multiple people's full review, rather than one admin or "whoever shows up to a noticeboard" handling the request. I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that you eventually come back to us, but right now, you need to ease away. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:48, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
With all due respect, how can being blocked from one's own talk page be construed as damaging Wikipedia? It's tantamount to forbidding him to speak freely about his improvement of health, how it is improving, his personal views about his previous editing, or if he wants to edit again. Here we are, talking on his talk page, and he's not allowed the basic right to answer. As said before, I find it very shocking. Is this the future of Wikipedia? This kind of block is exactly what WP-detractors love to write about.--andreasegde (talk) 18:37, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for removing talk page access. This editor needs to take a very long break from all of Wikipedia, ideally long enough for a major change in temperament. Penyulap should not return until building an encyclopedia is the major concern, not jousting with other editors and wasting their time. Binksternet (talk) 18:19, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In my short interaction with Penyulap I have seen Penyulap as helpful and constructive in expanding wikipedia and improving the quality of the content here. I can not understand why Penyulap has been blocked, and why a user can't even edit its own user talk page. Banning someone from wikipedia and thereby wanting to force (as expressed above) them to get help (even if needed) is not a humane act, it is coercive. Tony Mach (talk) 10:41, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ryan's question is basically mine as well. Why does Penyulap want his talk page access restored? If it is so he can request unblocking (or work toward requesting unblocking, by asking for help), that's one thing. If it's so he can request people proxy edits for him, or so he can comment on what he likes or dislikes about Wikipedia, etc, then it's another. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 15:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(1) I feel the talk page should not be used for more stream-of-consciousness posts of the type we saw here in the past. Example, example. A different venue such as a blog would be a better venue for most of that material; user talk pages are intended to be used for discussions about editing the encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not a social media site; Wikipedia is not therapy. (2) Use of the user talk page while blocked is supposed to be restricted to posting unblock requests, so my opinion is no, they should not have access for quite some time, until it's time to post an unblock request, and it's far too soon for that. -- Dianna (talk) 16:00, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why not throw a bit of that old AGF around? We're generous enough towards the kid vandals, so why not an editor who has (despite recent events) been a good contributor in the past? What's the worst that can happen? - they fill their own talk page with transcribed versions of the Book of Revelations, then in a week's time we remove access again and blank it. That's less effort than arguing the toss over whether to grant it. Nor are any uninvolved editors inconvenienced by it. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've got to say, I agree with Andy. It seems that a large part of Penyulap's recent indef block was due to ranting at me. I don't condone his edits, but I've never been bothered by what people say about me. To this day, I've not seen anything which states talk pages are only to be used for requesting unblock requests. As long as he follows the norms of the encyclopedia... specifically not making accusations of sockpuppetry without evidence, no personal attacks, I don't see the problem here. WormTT(talk) 16:49, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Well, the "norms of Wikipedia" are that when you're blocked, you use your talk page to work toward unblocking, not as a diary or an edit request system. Giving him talk page access if he doesn't intend to work toward unblocking with it would be a waste of both Penyulap's time and the community's. Particularly because Penyulap has indicated that he's struggling to find the energy get help in real-life areas, opening his talk page back up may cause more harm than good by turning into an energy sink (which is why I removed his talk access in the first place - not because I'm an ABF monster, but because he had said that he needed to focus elsewhere, but it was obvious that he was having a hard time stepping away from Wikipedia to do that). I would be more than happy to give Penyulap talk access back if he intends to, say, have someone mentor him here, or if he intends to post an unblock request, or if he intends to try to explain what went wrong and reach understanding with the community. But I do not think we should be giving him access back if he intends to post here about things that won't help him rejoin the community - as Dianaa says, blogs are more suited for that than Wikipedia talk pages. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 16:59, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No problems with the delay. If the request is to provide the editor with the option of discussing circumstances which would lead to the indefinite block being lifted, I think restoring talk page access would be very reasonable. And, otherwise, as per Andy Dingley above, I don't see that much damage that could really happen even given the worst-case scenario. John Carter (talk) 16:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, because who comes to talk pages? People that want to communicate with the person, or people who disagree with them, which is trolling anyway. The fact that we are all here talking about Penyulap's comments and him not being allowed to comment about our comments about him is very strange indeed.--andreasegde (talk) 20:13, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If Penyulap would like his talk page access restored, then I think it would be entirely right and proper for that to take place. Thom2002 (talk) 00:19, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm uncomfortable w/ justification to remove user Talk access based on admin belief it's "best" for said user in their real life. There's no way one could know that to be true or false, and it's fundamentally "I-know-what's-best-for-you-better-than-you-do" disrespectful to any adult. Even if said admin is the user's doctor, it still smacks of totalitarianism. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:51, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As others have mentioned, we are here to build an encyclopedia. This happens in many ways. Some people correct spelling errors, others copyedit and some reference articles. The point is, the encyclopedia is built in many different ways. Communicating with others helps facilitate the work. That communication happens in many diffeent ways. Some people like the communication, others don't. As long as the communication does not violate our policies (BLP, NPA, COPYVIO, etc.), then it is acceptable communication. We have 27 million pages on Wikipedia, but only 4 miilion are articles. That is because talking helps build the encyclopedia. I ask Fluffernutter to please restore talk page access because I think it would be beneficial to the encyclopedia. Thanks. 64.40.54.58 (talk) 10:26, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I believe we're still waiting for Penyulap's reasoning behind his request for restored page access. That will be important to determining what's going to happen here. Dennis Brown, any idea when Penyulap's rationale will be coming? A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:05, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need for a rationale (an explanation of the basis or fundamental reasons for something/a justification or rationalization for something). That is asking Penyulap to explain why he would like to exist on this page. Apart from somebody being indefinitely blocked for being a vandal, I have never heard of somebody being blocked from their own talk page. Has this ever happened before? Please advise.--andreasegde (talk) 22:22, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All the time, for a variety of reasons. Ok. But I've never seen *this* reason before. I don't think anyone's suggested it was applied out of hate. But that doesn't mean it was a good or right thing to do, either. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 14:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Come on now folks this really shouldn't surprise anyone. This is what has become of Wikipedia. We block for minor infractions, indef ban for disagreeing. Its common. Its sad really, I thought Penyulap was a good contributor but all good things must end I suppose. Kumioko (talk) 03:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've been away on holiday without computer access, and the first thing I see on returning is that Penyulap is still blocked from posting on his own talkpage, for no good reason that I can see. The myth that blocked users aren't supposed to use their talkpage for anything other than (humbly, apologetically) requesting unblock seems to be still dogging this case, no matter how many times it's cogently refuted. I, too, believe Penyulap might be better advised, for his own sake, not to post any more.. uh.. reflexions of a general nature.. on this page, but we should simply let him be the judge of that. There's too much paternalism and top-down thinking in the admin corps. I think I'll write an essay about how Wikipedia is not for protecting people from themselves. Or else just go away for a bit longer. This kind of thing is deeply frustrating. :-( Bishonen | talk11:45, 15 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Collapsing distracting whimsy; the discussion is meandering enough as it is. Bishonen.
Blocking Penyulap from his own talkpage (as he is registered here), could be an infringement of Freedom of speech in the United States. It says: "Criticism of the government and advocacy of unpopular ideas that people may find distasteful or against public policy are almost always permitted." What do you think?--andreasegde (talk) 20:29, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Freedom of speech applies to governmental control. Wikipedia is not a government entity and talk page access was not revoked at the request of the government. RyanVesey20:31, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Whimsy". Yeah, that seems to be an appropriate appelation to this random collapse of a relevant discussion. Interesting use of discussion collapse by an involved editor. --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry if I didn't make that clear, I was of course referring to the apparently random collapsing of part of this discussion by User:Bishonen. An editor who has clearly taken a stand on this issue, yes also the editor who takes it upon himself to make editorial decisions in a discussion he is taking part in. Quite a novel thing. --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Issue? There's an issue? Do you see where even Andresegde himself apologises for raising a non-issue (surely everybody knows how irrelevant "freedom of speech in the United States" is to the use of Wikipedia talkpages?), and calling it "a whimsical idea"? Do uncollapse the "discussion" if you value it. Go on, help Wikipedia. Gee. Bishonen | talk19:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I think its pretty clear at this point that this blocking of the users talk page was contentious and should be undone by someone if not the admin that did the block in the first place. It seems like there is quite a few folks that think the block was a bad one and should be undone. I agree. Fluffernutter is normally a good admin but everyonen makes mistakes sometimes and I think this could be counted as one of those times. Kumioko (talk) 14:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All: Please reach a decision on Penyulap's request to have talkpage access restored. If you cannot do so, please move the request to a noticeboard for more attention. AGK[•]11:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
With respect restoring talk page access shouldn't be worthy of discussion nor should it need a voting forum on the a major forum or discussion board. It seems like the majority here are in favor of restoring talk page access. In fact reading through and after watching it for several days most don't think talk page access should have been blocked in the first place. Several even seem to think the block in general was rather stupid including me. Kumioko (talk) 12:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
AGK, as I've already said, I'm waiting to hear Penyulap's actual request and reasoning. Without those, we're playing a game of telephone about what, why, and when, and I'm not prepared to make this decision without actual information. Obviously it's possible for another admin to step in and do it in my place, before we have those, if they wish. I myself am inclined toward caution, which is why I want to hear from Penyulap first about how he intends to use his talk page if he's returned access. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 14:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The fact that he no longer wishes to communicate with Dennis about this says much. I see no valid reason for Penyulap to have access restored. RyanVesey20:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need a valid reason to restore it. You need a valid reason to keep this unjust state of affairs going. You can certainly call his lack of wanting to communicate with someone who actively disagrees with reinstating his access to instead concentrate on those who are disposed more friendlily towards him a valid reason though, even though I will laugh at you, so I have no problem with your !vote per se - just the way that you have put the burden of showing reason on Penyulap's side rather than the pro-page ban side. Or put more succintly...
The burdern should be on the pro-ban side to show a reason to keep it
Correct indeed. Dennis certainly is top of the class as far as admins go. He was the first to respect this community consensus despite not agreeing with it. However, cheating by copying off someone else, even when that person is so close to the top of the class, means that you will copy their mistakes as well. If people want to do their best, then they have to study the exam paper, do the research and find their own answers. Blocks, proper ones, are about written policy. Not supposed policy. Not bullshit. Not assumed policy, but black and white written down policy. "Because someone else said so" is a FAIL as far as I am concerned. Before I make a judgement, before I cut someone down, before I back someone up, I do my own homework rather than copy someone else. If it is not in policy, if it is not written down, then for all practical purposes it does not exist. Black Kite's block is a good example of a good block.
Hints for the next exam (I am still on a break from all your dramaz), the block log twice gives the title ofan essay, also, running out onto the street, looking both ways and then yelling at someone's distant, receding back, "get out", after they have left the party/pub doesn't have quite the same that's telling 'em effect as it would with proper timing and warrant. As far as I recall there were a lot of people, including myself coincidentally, who thought I needed a break, and I have not yet decided to return to the fray, it's better on the outside, more productive, less stress. I understand why people decide forever to stay away from this kind of madness and mayhem. Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I definitely support the restoration of talk page access as a logical step towards the hopeful return of Penyulap to constructive editing. I also encourage this action to ensue in the timeliest fashion. I beseech Dennis Brown to expedite this action in the interest of propriety; notwithstanding the abundant regard accumulated by the esteemed editors before me, who have asserted their full measure of good faith to encourage the same. I submit these with the highest regard. 76StratString da Broke da (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per Ryan Vesey. Dennis is likely one of the easiest and most lenient admins to work with and so I'm suspicious when an editor refuses to work with him. Further, though I might be missing it, I cannot seem to find the reasoning behind P's desire to have tp access restored. If it is to request unblock and work out his editing issues then that's fine, but not for any other reason as WP is not a forum for non-article related discussion, nor are blocked users supposed to be actively engaging in article discussion. Lastly, this is not the proper venue to determine whether access should be restored. I'm not sure if this was posted to AN or ANI but that's where it should be done. Sædontalk20:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Regarding the comment above ("but he no longer wishes to communicate with me about it"), maybe I can explain... I have been talking to Penyulap (through e-mails) almost every day for the last few weeks, but I haven't had any message at all for three or four days. I don't think he doesn't want to communicate, I only think he's not available to comment. If he had had access to this page, we would have known that.--andreasegde (talk) 20:50, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Dennis specifically said that P doesn't wish to communicate with him anymore, not simply that he stopped communicating, and said that he still wishes to have tp access restored. It's unlikely Dennis would use that language if it were the case that he had simply not received a response as it attributes a positive statement. Sædontalk21:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your good intentions, Andreas, but you're not having any luck with your commentary in this section.;-) I've heard from Penyulap today. Please see below. Bishonen | talk21:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Surely we don't need to provide a formal list of Support/Oppose restoration of talkpage access here, at this late stage? All a talkpage-unblocking admin needs to do is read all the support in this section for such an unblock, implied (such as for instance in my own post above) or explicit. I appeal to either AGK or some other respected admin to take stock of community opinion as expressed in this section, and then unlock Penyulap's access. There's no sense in insisting on "wider input", AGK. This is not a controversial unblock of an indeffed user we're talking about right now; it's merely an unlocking of the talkpage. There is nothing controversial about it; the action was dubious (trying to put it politely here, or I'd use other words) to begin with, and there is consensus here for undoing it. This over-long deference to Fluffernutter as the somehow hallowed performer of the original lock of the page should cease. Fluffernutter, please abdicate here, if that's what it takes (though it shouldn't be). You won't lose face by it, on the contrary. To insist that Penyulap provide a "rationale" for unblocking his talkpage access (=that he eat a smaller or larger portion of humble pie) is becoming.. oh, I don't know what to call it, I'll abandon that sentence. Anyway. I understand quite well why Penyulap won't provide the pound of flesh being requested. Even if he hadn't explained it to me in e-mail, which he has done, I'd understand it; it's not hard. Please don't insist on ritual humiliation. Just return his talkpage access, come on. Oh, and EggCentric, could you stop nagging me about resuming my own admin tools? Can you really think this case is improving my appetite for adminnery, when I see what has been wrought by it here? Bishonen | talk21:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
In regards to more than one editor erring on the side of blocking in regards to things that they see and do not understand, I shall respond to everyone publicly now. This is only because Dianna demonstrates an open mind, so I know that there is at least one person listening, and as a result I don't mind to offer a explanation.
My editorial interest began with one complex system and I joined that wikiproject when invited to do so. Recently a new wikiproject has been created to deal with the failing of a far less complex system which is never the less interesting for someone who can't visit the subject of their first interest. :) (at least I can interact with this one in a satisfying manner). The notes in question on my talkpage are part of a study I want to do myself. While other people are dealing with the novelty of the new project by offering eloquent paternal reasons why the fundamental pillar of 'everyone can edit' has to be undermined, or using it as their travel-blog, or any of a dozen other chaotic but harmless things rather than a focus on the committee's studies, I am doing my own studies first hand as I go, so if I make notes on a day in the life, so I can recall the frame of mind later on, that is part of the project, and I would question the approach of blocking first and asking questions later. I'm not saying it is the worst approach at all, that's for certain, as it was immediately trumped by the strategy of silencing the only person who could answer such an inquiry which I found quite a novel idea myself.
I would have to say though, that most of my spaceflight conversations on my talkpage are longer and more rambling. I figure on one hand if I make notes using less approachable (and therefore less useful to other people) language then I'd get less suggestions of blocking, however, as the recent farce over the null edit proved, confabulation makes up for what reality lacks, so would-be big game hunters will inevitably try their luck either way.
So long rambling edits about editor retention relate directly to half of the entire 'two' wikiprojects I am a member of. So I recommend not listening, or indef blocking, whatever works for you, personally. In RL, I go for not listening, many a time my waffling to friends gets interrupted and I'm like 'where was I?' and neither they nor I can say, not necessarily because we can't recall but maybe because neither one of us wants to, it's just that the wrong answer can resume the painful process of listening to me yap on and on and on. The best answer in those situations is to shrug and look like you're trying to remember, and just let it pass. Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Actually that was something I noticed as I was trying to follow the Evil Lord's demands. Henchmen always have trouble understanding their master's instructions, and I had interpreted 'convincing' and headed off on a forensic approach, learning and installing different morphing programs to change the bone structure to match Jimbo, and after the eyebrows and other parts of the face are done, I tell you what, it DOES look a great deal more like Alfred. However, I won't upload that without Kyle Plante giving permission, as he is not a notable person and is likely to be alive, so it would not be appropriate to parody him. I had also looked for a different interpretation of the master's decree after I had spent an hour or so morphing and painting (after the couple of hours learning the software, which is not wasted, knowledge never is). I estimated that there would be about a full day's work ahead getting the face proper and 'convincing' and at the end of the day, I would have missed the mark entirely. Such an image would not be a parody so much as simply a childhood photograph that Jimbo could donate at a moment's notice if he chose to. Pointless operation. I also grafted Jimbo's face onto a rabbit, put him into a turban, and decided they all looked like cut and paste regardless of how well the cut and paste is done. So rather than face the wrath of the evil one I fumbled for another plan, and went for a contextual parody to accentuate the haircut. It's a work in progress, and I've already hit three birds with one stone, achieving a triple-parody (but who will spot and list them first, anyone ?) I haven't removed the apple laptop just yet, there is a lot of scope there, not so much the microbee or sinclair, but people can suggest anything at all, I'm open to input here, I need someone to share the blame when Dr Blofeld starts killing henchmen in displeasure, so ideas PLEASE.
....before anyone suggests that this is editing, I'd like to point out that undermining and sabotaging the powers that be, scheming and plotting between the Evil Dr Blofeld and the Lord of DOOOM is not work, it is not stressful, it is indeed an uplifting pleasure that recharges and refreshes one's zest for living. You all should try it sometime. ENLIST IN THE ARMIES OF DARKNESS. vacancies still available, plenty of room for disposable henchmen here (please) Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
from the news
Incidentally, thank you for the cheerful work related request. Penyulap ☏ 12:58, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Hahahahaaaa LMAO that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen on wikipedia!!! LOOOOLLL. That is awesome, soooo exceeded my expectations, thankyou!! Mind if I show Jimbo it, he'll find it hilarious I think? ♦ Dr. Blofeld20:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome, it's an honour to undermine the powers that be.
Sure, though I would like it if people can comment with a view towards improving our horrid articles on Parody and Internet meme in particular by suggesting something better than the abomination on that page now, or, if Jimbo doesn't mind the parody, we can find ways to improve it and add it to the parody article. Or come up with more ways to sling s***, either one is good for me.
Now who said I only edit out of spite ? oh yes, that was me. Penyulap ☏ 21:16, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I'm thinking those ideas, as far as I can envision them, would kind of suck, although the Dr evil without a background would be useful for you to add where you want, and can composite into the pic through code, I'll do that first off (maybe it would work and can be added, I'll do one along the way). I have thought a few times that a decent weapon rising from the lake would before firing into orbit would be appropriate, but I don't know what it looks like yet. Penyulap ☏ 21:41, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)
do you know where abouts you want him ? L, R, FG BG ? Here is the code to add him to any picture, although I find merging it into a pic is more stable on a page. A single image is easier to handle and displays best on many browsers and so on.
Like this ?
Btw, are you somewhat concerned that I am truly evil ? For most, actions speak louder than words, and for myself it is true, but sometimes my words are woven so very well it frightens the reader. Have I got you yet ? Penyulap ☏ 14:16, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I've written about unblocking a day or two ago or three ? can't remember. I know of a nice image for the Mini-Me article to put in later, 98 % less suck right there. I need more evil schemes. A workgroup, a wikiproject of evil. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I hope all is well with you and company. Do you live with sockpuppets? Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned "company"? They hang on my every word, now, and it has been interesting knowing they do not know what I know and therefore my information can't be trusted. It could be somebody else's information and not my own. Sure! We are the ones our parents warned us about! 99.251.125.65 (talk) 00:37, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not back, and just because most of us are paranoid doesn't mean there aren't 90 editors watching the page. I'm just dropping off some artwork is all. (and half of it will not load onto the server, as per usual) Penyulap ☏ 00:43, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
You may call it artwork, but that's an awfully modest way of describing output from a time machine. A most unusual thing for any of us mortals to see, that. EggCentric00:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
well, I'm just learning, and it STILL won't load onto the server, the original upload took like AN HOUR for the server to go and search for duplicates before accepting the broken ass version you can see at the moment. It returns after a flight back to the page, however, I may need to reduce the size quite a bit more, as it still won't work on the third attempt. Penyulap ☏ 01:13, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
There is a 50% thumbnail that works, and shows the general idea. Ha! I wonder how many will see me absorb 3D modelling and then fly the tardis in and be all like " N...... ha! suffer. Anyhow, the old one if you look at the early versions it is also cut down from what it was meant to be, I haven't had the time to fix it because I was so concerned to fix everything else. Penyulap ☏ 01:54, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC) 01:54, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There comes a time when people wilfully restrain a third option, because the politics concerning the reasoning behind that decision have already been decided upon. One can only stand at a distance and watch the mock trial that is purported to be a hearing. It is as it is, so one should sit back and enjoy the machinations. I had never heard of C. B. Fry until last week, but I wouldn't vote for him today, even though he was a superb athlete.--andreasegde (talk) 22:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
His story is too tragic, surely he did more than just sew, mow, and play the flute ? is there nothing to brighten up his story a little more ? I guess you have to go with what you are given. It would have to be said that as a superman he was flawed, but as a cricketer he was gifted. Perhaps we can emphasise that he was more of a gifted sportsman, and air out the smell of regret that all dead men have. Still, that is a lot of work, and I am too critical, I have a sour mood when there is little to do but think of my sour mood. Play with me won't you ? what are some internet memes that I could draw up ? the articles on parody and internet memes are rubbish, and yet there are so many artists outside this cubefarm producing more everyday. I need an artistic outlet for my misery to expel it. Or some banner for your page perhaps ? what takes your fancy ? I have all sorts of silly interesting things to do with text, things I haven't done before, and I am sure I can annoy you with something as your pages are nice and BLANK at the moment. It was brilliant in the past, perhaps it's time to find some new humour ? Penyulap ☏ 23:28, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Something featuring Marvin (you know who), QI (TV show), Pacman (old game), and a blackbird, perhaps? Funnily enough, they seem to link together nicely.--andreasegde (talk) 07:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a bit busy just at the moment, apart from my editing I'm trying to keep track of my indef banned robot PALZ, as far as I can tell, he is circumventing bot policy using a sockpuppet and uploading extremely weird and technically strange things. "Bad poetry" doesn't cover it,this is HIDEOUS, and look at Marvin's opus.ogg. I don't know what to do, I'm at wits end. I've banned him before for conspiring to murder, although that turned out to be some kind of sting operation (although it bordered on entrapment I would say, and due to diabolical use of the Streisand effect we may never know) and now this blatant socking to circumvent WP:BOTPOL. He's destroying the system and GAMING, I'm just lucky nobody will ever misquote me or take this out of context.
I think I've worked out just how bad his 'poetry ????' was, it seems to say
Now that I have gone to bed
Seagulls won't engulf my head
all my work will soon be dead
how I hate the night
All the protoss have been killed
in a process less than chilled
and the wise are not so thrilled
how I hate the plight
the terran tried to hold the shield
battle clubs the hordes did wield
to alien scum we have to yield
this is just not right
the zerg have gained an upper hand
and for now we let this stand
it's a disgrace throughout the land
the battlefield is a sight
-PALZ9000
something else I can't grasp about weary or dreary or something, there is that horrid car accident sound all through it, now, comparing that to the Vorlon poetry
"Oh freddled gruntbuggly/thy micturations are to me/As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee.
Groop I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes. And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't!"
it leads to the dilemma of whether to let PALZ9000 pursue the apparent objective of rivalling the Vorlons for the worst poetry in the universe, or stopping him before he gets that far, with the "how bad or how good do you describe it" poetry so far ? If best is the worst, and worst is the best, how can you classify what he has done, I don't know. I think I'll unplug him in the spirit of indef block when in doubt, that is the fashion of late. yes, that's a fashionable idea, I'll do that. Penyulap ☏ 00:25, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I am mucking about with something along the lines of a moving pacman, using the same software as I used for the tardis, although I haven't done a moving parts model just yet, I did a space station with moving solar arrays but it was bare bones and never uploaded. What would a pacman do or eat if he could eat something on a banner ? Penyulap ☏ 00:52, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)
something for your page Greg, if you like it, if not I can do it 100 other ways, your work is cool, I am so never going to be a patch on those guys, but we can all enjoy their work. Maybe softer tones that don't burn the eyes do you think ? Penyulap ☏ 03:18, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I am completely at a total and and absolute loss for understanding why CU and SPI is separate, I understand that they are different things, but I can't fathom why they are separate processes for the applicant. Which one is appropriate is a monumentally frustrating question to answer, which one to apply to, it makes NO SENSE at all to me. NONE. I don't get it, I can't use it, I want to, but I cannot understand how. There is no 'front door' to it. There are two options and the distinction in why there are two choices is completely lost on me. WTF are there two choices for where to make an application ? This is an offence to reason. This is more frustrating then 10 edit wars put together and if there is someone who can assist me I would appreciate the help. Penyulap ☏ 02:58, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Penyulap. I'm not entirely sure I understand your question, as SPI and CU are not separate departments. What I do when I suspect socking is to open a SPI report and give the behavioural evidence that leads me to suspect socking. I never ask for check-user, because I don't even file a complaint unless I have pretty compelling evidence that someone is not only socking, but disrupting the encyclopedia by doing so. Which means my reports are almost always confirmed as being sockers. The clerks patrolling the page will add the check-user request for you after they evaluate the behavioural evidence. IPs will never be linked to named accounts, because to do so reveals the geographic location of the editor. Some IPs geolocate to a particular building such as a school or a library, and therefore to link the IP to a user-name invades the privacy of the user by potentially revealing their real-world identity and location.
By the way, could you use the word "watcher" instead of "stalker"? "Stalking" is a word used in some jurisdictions as a term for a criminal offense, and can thus be construed as derogatory. Thanks. -- Dianna (talk) 03:51, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I apologise for using the term, I used it in a neutral sense. I could use the word Angel if you like :) although tps seems to be the common term, or fans or entourage :) Umm, I don't know what is a middle term, but watcher seems pretty good. tpw ? I haven't seen that acronym much.
The front pages don't offer such advice. It is proper that they are updated, but such suggestions are invariably ignored, however the wqa is being merged, so there is hope I guess.
I would like to explain my approach, however, I can't do so publicly as he watches this page. What size should the request be ? I could write a thesis, which is also inappropriate, because creating a sock is an economical process, and reason dictates that a SPI should always be less work overall, on average, than making a sock. It would help so very much if there were guidelines for a request, so that I could estimate how much of each field of study to include, or, if there was a particular person assigned to the case a two way feedback loop could be established and then I would know which areas needed no further information as the investigator became satisfied with a particular aspect. This would help economise the task so that it doesn't become more effort than creating and running a sock, which, if that was the case, then it is illogical to attempt to apply. Making a public application was doomed to fail because nobody assigned themselves to the case. It is impossible to post information about the sock publicly because that educates the sock and therefore damages the project. A person would have to have experience or some idea on how to formulate the public outline of the case so that the socks cannot study it to improve their efforts. I think that the investigator should do the summary so that there is some consistency. I was alarmed at the manner Dennis outlined a socks mistakes to him on his tp. No assistance should be given when it is not absolutely necessary. The public case was domed to failure for a variety of reasons, one main one I won't cover all over again, as I don't need the grief. The other reason it failed is because it was taken to be the entire case when it was clearly and patently and labelled as only part of the case. Disinterest killed it, because it certainly absolutely lacks nothing for evidence or merit. I could draw the person's house, which makes me detest and loathe the business all the more, for I want nought to do with such rubbish. Anti-social people don't warrant the expenditure of my effort unless it is to assist someone else. Penyulap ☏ 04:20, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Well the SPI is going nowhere. It has not been lodged, I could articulate the problem in private, it is a problem that I have seen before in situations that do not involve me. If anyone in good standing would like to assist as a translator, that would work I expect, but I don't know if anyone has an interest, nor do I like the idea that it should be made to consume such resources. Penyulap ☏ 16:56, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Here's a couple of examples of effective reporting at SPI: Demiurge reports Babasalichai (195 words); Dianna reports Iloveandrea (123 words). Both are good examples because they show clear evidence that there's socking going on, and that it's disruptive and problematic. Don't write a thesis; be brief. People will thank you for it. The thing to do to get the report filed quietly is to email your evidence to a check-user. It looks like User:DeltaQuad is the only one actively working the page right now. Hope this helps. I like that new expression: Talk page angels. Hovering, waiting for an opportunity to be useful is how I visualise them. -- Dianna (talk) 20:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will study the examples, but I don't feel it is fair really, I feel the process is broken in the same way as the WP:BRFA process is broken. The bot process is set up in a way that can be overwhelmingly confrontational. That excludes a large portion of programmers because they do not think in emotional terms, they think in logical terms devoid of emotion, think of it like Dr Spock, who escapes to the tranquillity of reason as a refuge from the tumult. It's a similar situation. I've seen that the best programmers are unable to use that process because it is set up that way. There should be an additional pathway for them to follow, which they would, so that they can also edit the project. The SPI, at least for me, doesn't work, and DQ surely will not help. That is the problem I face, and thought today that I'd best try to (overload?) poor Dennis, because at least he is openminded enough to listen while I explain my mindframe. For me, it is important to be religiously objective in dealing with accusations. I don't accuse people without pure reason, pure objective reason. Like WDGraham, bless him, has never once made me suspicious that he could be the puppetmaster, I won't go into our issues anymore outside the proper venue, however he's never been a suspect. (I don't mind saying that openly, because if anyone can untangle socking advice out of the statement, I wish them well). Translating evidence into the mindset used at SPI, because it goes from that pure objective analysis to ** knows what. I open with remarks that clearly state that part, and only part, of the body of evidence is publicly available, so that someone with a light workload will see that there is a case to look at, but instead of look at it or ** well read what I wrote, they're like 'oh I can see nothing here' and close it well of course you can't see what isn't ** there, because I did not write it there and said so. There is no conversation when there is no converse. It's like I say hello and they say goodbye. Sure, that's a short and economical conversation, but I wouldn't call it an effective communication. There is no SPI, not for a person who puts reason into being reasonable.
They are good examples. It would be A REALLY UNBELIEVABLY MONUMENTALLY BREAKTHROUGH IDEA to put them, or ones just like it, up on the SPI or CU page, with a note that also says "SPI = CU, but for some reason that can't be fathomed we have them as separate venues just to confuse the ** out of people."
Also, what of the different levels of detection skill of the investigators ? What if they actually were unable to detect something ? I don't know what to do there, how to educate them into formulating the inquiry, working out theories and tests that can be run to gather more data as I have done to improve my level of certainty far far beyond what is apparently required at SPI according to the documentation. On one hand I think to familiarise myself with the whole process, by working on some of the harder cases that I have no involvement in, to demonstrate the sound methodology I use, but I can't stand the utter waste of effort sock-chasing is. Prevention is the easiest simplest most effective thing in the universe (well ok, except for this one guy). Penyulap ☏ 21:53, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap, the process is not broken just because you cannot be bothered/are not capable of using it. It is a very simple process. If you think an editor is a sock, you have to say (a) which editor you think they are a sock of (because to be a sock they have to have edited wikipedia before)and (b) why you think that, based on their editing. If you say User:Foo is a sock, but don't say which editor you think they are a sock of , or say why you think they are a sock of this editor, then of course no-one is going to take any notice. If you are being harrassed by an editor who you believe to be a sock, then you can email a WP:CHECKUSER. These people carry out sockpuppet investigations and have access to the checkuser tool, which may assist in this process, but whoever you contact will still want the same information. Evidence based on editing is required - abusing those involved for not being as clever as you is unlikely to help. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:54, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The difference here is in interpretation of 'everyone can edit' some see it as 'most people can edit' and there is no room for improvement. Most people can get into the building, so no ramps are required, people should just use friends, passers-by or telekinesis. Penyulap ☏ 23:51, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I'll rephrase. Abusing those involved for not being as clever as you think you are is unlikely to help.Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC) In fact I'll rephrase that again, as the preceding could be misconstrued. Abusing those involved for not being as clever as you are positioning yourself at any given point is unlikely to be helpful. You don't need a ramp to report a sockpuppet, and you don't need to educate the checkusers, you just need to have some evidence and be able to type it into the edit box. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you like art Elen ?
I like art.
Trouble is, I'm not very good at it. I like to learn, but I'm an idiot by comparison to any real artist like Salvadore Dali or the Wachowski brothers or the comedy of the chaser when I look at what they can do and I can't. Still I like to absorb the code of the software, every piece of software is written differently, some have docs, some have tutorials, many don't have both, and some don't have either one. I'm still trying to track down the author of the holy grail of software (in my opinion) that does the most amazing fractals, as there is no other way to work out how to use it. I compiled it, and it works, but it's not simply another language, it's like half a machine and the artist is the other half. It fascinates me.
I often look for inspiration, I was looking for inspiration this morning and thought, what makes me happy, and I thought of the nice words on my talkpages, how it's more than little letters in the code, and and thought of what I could create with the idea. I love the matrix movie, and want to do like the way the little letters rain down, but I haven't got very far yet.
here is the doodle I was playing with just then, usually I don't upload half finished things, but meh, who cares. I like to learn how to 3D model each letter of text, and then line them up, assign colours and lighting and animation, and then the layers of complexity add up, with the different strings and how they combine to make rain or walls and structure, and then the flying through it choreography and cinematography. Of course, it's all been done before in the matrix reloaded intro but I think that'd be cool to learn, and I can manage my name or something to appear from the code like at 42s where it says 'the Matrix', probably by tomorrow I guess, but I want to go get something to eat, something away from the computer. I wonder what the matrix article looks like, but then again, the question is moot right now. I guess sometimes I look for inspiration, something to make me feel good about creating something cool for the project. I really like the whole Dr Evil thing, that movie rocks, still, who knows if I can do the mini-me article or not. Sometimes I lack the willpower.
Something I'd like to know Elen, do you like art ? or movies ? what are your happy thoughts ? what inspires you. Penyulap ☏ 01:56, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Do you have happy thoughts Elen ? Penyulap ☏ 02:24, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Well it's time to give up and leave me to my indef ban forever then. For me, the process is unworkable and the procedure untenable. People can't do everything, everyone has a failing, so ban me for it, screw the lot of you. I haven't named any suspect since being blocked, I haven't implied, I've only named people who are NOT suspects, here is a string of people who are NOT suspects, WDGraham, Jimbo Wales, Dr Blofeld, Jssteil, Bish (suspicions character that Bish) hmm yes, well I could name names of people who are not suspects all day long, but I think that is enough of a list to ban me over. Should I keep going ? want some more to issue warning over so you can block me good and proper ?
Better still ban me because sockpuppets cause problems for me while I try to edit wikipedia. Let me say here, SOCKPUPPETS cause ME a lot of trouble. Some of them are nice, some are funny, and some vote, and some try to get help from admins to ban people they don't like. Ban everyone who doesn't like sockpuppets. Or better yet, just work out which sockpuppets are causing trouble, and which are harmless, no secret, clearly labelled and ban THEM instead. Oh wait, palz IS banned already, dang. Is Thomas Moore banned ? Yep, well, I guess the job is done and nobody else on wikipedia will leave because they are harassed by sockpuppets. Would someone let Dennis know that we can just put a little [tick] beside that problem with editor retention, because it's been solved. No further work is needed. "the process is not broken just because you cannot be bothered/are not capable of using it. It is a very simple process." I think we can just copy this solution to the other problems on the editor retention project page as well, it's a brilliant solution that I'm sure we can apply to a lot of problems that have been outlined by the foundation. Yes, I think editors leave simply because they can't be bothered, wikipedia is not broken at all, it's just them, and good riddance.
Artwork is very simple, would everyone like to learn how to draw a barnstar today ? The process is very easy. We'll make some barnstars in this lesson to the tune of "Bend and stretch"
Now come and join us everyone, we're going to make some barnstars today, now everybody stand up together, move your keyboard forward a little, move the chair back, that's the way, move it right back so you have lots of room to bend over. Have you done that ? Ok feet apart everybody, and sing along with the music, ready Mr Music ? Ok
Now, do we all have some lovely barnstars ? oh that's wonderful isn't it. Now that wasn't so hard now was it ? as easy as using SPI right ? oh that's lovely.
I'm not trying to be funny here, I'm in no mood for humour. So although I am using you to make an illustration in a light-hearted fashion, I do think it's improper for every individual editor to be banned because they have one area they need help with. Sure, there is the cube farm monoculture mentality which people think is some kind of policy "Everyone is EXPECTED to know and be proficient at everything" however, I think that is based upon the assumption that everyone CAN do everything. Limiting editors to those who CAN do everything is just as flawed as limiting editors to those who can do all (and only) the things that you can do.
The pillar linked from the five pillars page, the one called "NICE" under the heading "Co-operation and civility" is big on civility, but is a bit light on co-operation. In fact, it says nothing whatsoever about the Co-operation part at all. How about we just delete that part eh ? We can replace it with "Everyone is expected to be able to do everything." As in, if you can't do SPI, you can get stuffed, and the graphics lab, well, I should just tell everyone there to get stuffed as well, they can do their own art and comedy.
At 15 months old, I'm overdue.
Then of course, we should update the five pillars page, "content that anyone can edit" to "content that people like us can edit", with you know, a link to a page that explains in lovely paternalistic words how some people can't do some things and they have to be handed their hat because camaraderie and co-operation is too much to expect when everyone should be exactly like us, that is the point, that they can be banned unless they manage to do everything that we can do. The basis of which is the idea that 'we' as in the individual, can actually do everything. It's an idea believed by morons and enforced by the incompetent. So yeah, add me to the shitslide. Penyulap ☏ 16:53, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Welcome back! I'm sorry if I'm a little late welcoming you back but I have been away from Wikipedia for a few weeks and my emails are also down at the moment, so that is why you have not had a reply from me yet! I've also got my GSCE results today - it's all alright and what I have expected from myself. It's good to see you here again, Penyulap! Regards, ☠Jaguar☠14:48, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad to see you too Jag. I'm confined to my talkpage which is limiting my efforts to art, rather than politics and drama, and as most people have no idea wtf I am doing or why when I do that kind of stuff, it's making me look a whole lot more productive, at least to a few who understand the art. I expect some don't know what a Parody or Internet meme is, if I judge the crowd by the articles we have made. Try to find what is funny about an Internet meme, you can't because NOBODY on Wikipedia has a sense of humour, well present company excepted. I can't prove that you're not funny, although I know I'm not funny that's for sure.
It's good that you feel it went well. There is so much politics and manipulation involved in education. The news was mentioning some criticism of where the settings were placed on the results. It interests me because they actually dumb down the population gradually, whilst boosting their self esteem, to make them more docile while the whole time almost nobody notices. Or they notice and don't know why. I'll rave on in private about it later (if absolutely necessary, which I hope it's not :) Penyulap ☏ 16:26, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Yeah I was watching Sky News today and I saw Michael Gove (education sec) come out of Downing Street and a reporter asked him "can you explain the 0.4% fall in the GSCE results?" or something like that, and all he said was "How do you do?". I was like WTF?
I can't help but notice that the actual exams have got a little harder as well as the examiners who mark them have been treating the results much too harshly. For example, in Drama, I got an F. My only F. I hate drama and I don't know why I took it, but during the final performance I told the examiners that I had bronchitis (yeah, I know what you're thinking, how can you get that at my age!?), so I lost my voice and I had trouble barely speaking! I gave my best performance and yet I got an F. However, many other people got E's and F's as well, which comes to make me think that the exams have got harder or at least they're being marked more harshly. I got B's in English Language and Literauture which is very good as I'm taking it at college, and I got an A in History (Winston Churchill will be proud of me). Of course Michael Gove is denying that politics are interferring with GSCE's, because all politicians do is deny everything when the truth it right there! Who knows? ☠Jaguar☠18:22, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think even 5 year olds escape the politics of marking. Someone I know had an ongoing struggle and outright battle really, to have the results of their exams simply recognised. The University had funding and quota limitations in place originally intended to give scholarship type assistance to those who achieved certain academic levels, the University had to limit expenditure, so rather than change the program, they instructed their staff to downgrade some of the best people. This is a hard thing to do for people who have almost perfect scores, the higher the achievement, the worse it looks. Outside independent legal authorities got involved and had 'seen it all before' from that University. Nothing new and the University was recalcitrant to correct the problems, which were ongoing. In the end, the solution was to change city, enrol at another university which recognised the study thus far, and run parallel studies in pursuit of doctorates from both universities without the first being aware of the situation (timetables are more flexible the further on you go with structured study, so you can do a Hermione and have simultaneous doctorates without a moment's bother. Idiots.)
In the end it is best to structure and direct your own study. It's the only way to learn. Simple too, I don't doubt you know how either, basically you cram like the laziest people around you. In 2 weeks you cram the exact same way that the loafers do at the library and compress a year's study down to a manageable size. You do that on a regular basis and you'll start to see that cramming 50 years of study into half a decade and having time left over for a life is a snap. HA! Penyulap ☏ 18:49, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Ryan's question is basically mine as well. Why does Penyulap want his talk page access restored? If it is so he can request unblocking (or work toward requesting unblocking, by asking for help), that's one thing. If it's so he can request people proxy edits for him, or so he can comment on what he likes or dislikes about Wikipedia, etc, then it's another. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 15:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(1) I feel the talk page should not be used for more stream-of-consciousness posts of the type we saw here in the past. Example, example. A different venue such as a blog would be a better venue for most of that material; user talk pages are intended to be used for discussions about editing the encyclopedia. Wikipedia is not a social media site; Wikipedia is not therapy. (2) Use of the user talk page while blocked is supposed to be restricted to posting unblock requests, so my opinion is no, they should not have access for quite some time, until it's time to post an unblock request, and it's far too soon for that. -- Dianna (talk) 16:00, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why not throw a bit of that old AGF around? We're generous enough towards the kid vandals, so why not an editor who has (despite recent events) been a good contributor in the past? What's the worst that can happen? - they fill their own talk page with transcribed versions of the Book of Revelations, then in a week's time we remove access again and blank it. That's less effort than arguing the toss over whether to grant it. Nor are any uninvolved editors inconvenienced by it. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:38, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've got to say, I agree with Andy. It seems that a large part of Penyulap's recent indef block was due to ranting at me. I don't condone his edits, but I've never been bothered by what people say about me. To this day, I've not seen anything which states talk pages are only to be used for requesting unblock requests. As long as he follows the norms of the encyclopedia... specifically not making accusations of sockpuppetry without evidence, no personal attacks, I don't see the problem here. WormTT(talk) 16:49, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Well, the "norms of Wikipedia" are that when you're blocked, you use your talk page to work toward unblocking, not as a diary or an edit request system. Giving him talk page access if he doesn't intend to work toward unblocking with it would be a waste of both Penyulap's time and the community's. Particularly because Penyulap has indicated that he's struggling to find the energy get help in real-life areas, opening his talk page back up may cause more harm than good by turning into an energy sink (which is why I removed his talk access in the first place - not because I'm an ABF monster, but because he had said that he needed to focus elsewhere, but it was obvious that he was having a hard time stepping away from Wikipedia to do that). I would be more than happy to give Penyulap talk access back if he intends to, say, have someone mentor him here, or if he intends to post an unblock request, or if he intends to try to explain what went wrong and reach understanding with the community. But I do not think we should be giving him access back if he intends to post here about things that won't help him rejoin the community - as Dianaa says, blogs are more suited for that than Wikipedia talk pages. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 16:59, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No problems with the delay. If the request is to provide the editor with the option of discussing circumstances which would lead to the indefinite block being lifted, I think restoring talk page access would be very reasonable. And, otherwise, as per Andy Dingley above, I don't see that much damage that could really happen even given the worst-case scenario. John Carter (talk) 16:57, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, because who comes to talk pages? People that want to communicate with the person, or people who disagree with them, which is trolling anyway. The fact that we are all here talking about Penyulap's comments and him not being allowed to comment about our comments about him is very strange indeed.--andreasegde (talk) 20:13, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If Penyulap would like his talk page access restored, then I think it would be entirely right and proper for that to take place. Thom2002 (talk) 00:19, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm uncomfortable w/ justification to remove user Talk access based on admin belief it's "best" for said user in their real life. There's no way one could know that to be true or false, and it's fundamentally "I-know-what's-best-for-you-better-than-you-do" disrespectful to any adult. Even if said admin is the user's doctor, it still smacks of totalitarianism. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:51, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment As others have mentioned, we are here to build an encyclopedia. This happens in many ways. Some people correct spelling errors, others copyedit and some reference articles. The point is, the encyclopedia is built in many different ways. Communicating with others helps facilitate the work. That communication happens in many diffeent ways. Some people like the communication, others don't. As long as the communication does not violate our policies (BLP, NPA, COPYVIO, etc.), then it is acceptable communication. We have 27 million pages on Wikipedia, but only 4 miilion are articles. That is because talking helps build the encyclopedia. I ask Fluffernutter to please restore talk page access because I think it would be beneficial to the encyclopedia. Thanks. 64.40.54.58 (talk) 10:26, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I believe we're still waiting for Penyulap's reasoning behind his request for restored page access. That will be important to determining what's going to happen here. Dennis Brown, any idea when Penyulap's rationale will be coming? A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:05, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is no need for a rationale (an explanation of the basis or fundamental reasons for something/a justification or rationalization for something). That is asking Penyulap to explain why he would like to exist on this page. Apart from somebody being indefinitely blocked for being a vandal, I have never heard of somebody being blocked from their own talk page. Has this ever happened before? Please advise.--andreasegde (talk) 22:22, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All the time, for a variety of reasons. Ok. But I've never seen *this* reason before. I don't think anyone's suggested it was applied out of hate. But that doesn't mean it was a good or right thing to do, either. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 14:42, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Come on now folks this really shouldn't surprise anyone. This is what has become of Wikipedia. We block for minor infractions, indef ban for disagreeing. Its common. Its sad really, I thought Penyulap was a good contributor but all good things must end I suppose. Kumioko (talk) 03:00, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've been away on holiday without computer access, and the first thing I see on returning is that Penyulap is still blocked from posting on his own talkpage, for no good reason that I can see. The myth that blocked users aren't supposed to use their talkpage for anything other than (humbly, apologetically) requesting unblock seems to be still dogging this case, no matter how many times it's cogently refuted. I, too, believe Penyulap might be better advised, for his own sake, not to post any more.. uh.. reflexions of a general nature.. on this page, but we should simply let him be the judge of that. There's too much paternalism and top-down thinking in the admin corps. I think I'll write an essay about how Wikipedia is not for protecting people from themselves. Or else just go away for a bit longer. This kind of thing is deeply frustrating. :-( Bishonen | talk11:45, 15 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Collapsing distracting whimsy; the discussion is meandering enough as it is. Bishonen.
Blocking Penyulap from his own talkpage (as he is registered here), could be an infringement of Freedom of speech in the United States. It says: "Criticism of the government and advocacy of unpopular ideas that people may find distasteful or against public policy are almost always permitted." What do you think?--andreasegde (talk) 20:29, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Freedom of speech applies to governmental control. Wikipedia is not a government entity and talk page access was not revoked at the request of the government. RyanVesey20:31, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Whimsy". Yeah, that seems to be an appropriate appelation to this random collapse of a relevant discussion. Interesting use of discussion collapse by an involved editor. --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:16, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am sorry if I didn't make that clear, I was of course referring to the apparently random collapsing of part of this discussion by User:Bishonen. An editor who has clearly taken a stand on this issue, yes also the editor who takes it upon himself to make editorial decisions in a discussion he is taking part in. Quite a novel thing. --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Issue? There's an issue? Do you see where even Andresegde himself apologises for raising a non-issue (surely everybody knows how irrelevant "freedom of speech in the United States" is to the use of Wikipedia talkpages?), and calling it "a whimsical idea"? Do uncollapse the "discussion" if you value it. Go on, help Wikipedia. Gee. Bishonen | talk19:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I think its pretty clear at this point that this blocking of the users talk page was contentious and should be undone by someone if not the admin that did the block in the first place. It seems like there is quite a few folks that think the block was a bad one and should be undone. I agree. Fluffernutter is normally a good admin but everyonen makes mistakes sometimes and I think this could be counted as one of those times. Kumioko (talk) 14:46, 16 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All: Please reach a decision on Penyulap's request to have talkpage access restored. If you cannot do so, please move the request to a noticeboard for more attention. AGK[•]11:20, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
With respect restoring talk page access shouldn't be worthy of discussion nor should it need a voting forum on the a major forum or discussion board. It seems like the majority here are in favor of restoring talk page access. In fact reading through and after watching it for several days most don't think talk page access should have been blocked in the first place. Several even seem to think the block in general was rather stupid including me. Kumioko (talk) 12:19, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
AGK, as I've already said, I'm waiting to hear Penyulap's actual request and reasoning. Without those, we're playing a game of telephone about what, why, and when, and I'm not prepared to make this decision without actual information. Obviously it's possible for another admin to step in and do it in my place, before we have those, if they wish. I myself am inclined toward caution, which is why I want to hear from Penyulap first about how he intends to use his talk page if he's returned access. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 14:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The fact that he no longer wishes to communicate with Dennis about this says much. I see no valid reason for Penyulap to have access restored. RyanVesey20:02, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need a valid reason to restore it. You need a valid reason to keep this unjust state of affairs going. You can certainly call his lack of wanting to communicate with someone who actively disagrees with reinstating his access to instead concentrate on those who are disposed more friendlily towards him a valid reason though, even though I will laugh at you, so I have no problem with your !vote per se - just the way that you have put the burden of showing reason on Penyulap's side rather than the pro-page ban side. Or put more succintly...
The burdern should be on the pro-ban side to show a reason to keep it
Correct indeed. Dennis certainly is top of the class as far as admins go. He was the first to respect this community consensus despite not agreeing with it. However, cheating by copying off someone else, even when that person is so close to the top of the class, means that you will copy their mistakes as well. If people want to do their best, then they have to study the exam paper, do the research and find their own answers. Blocks, proper ones, are about written policy. Not supposed policy. Not bullshit. Not assumed policy, but black and white written down policy. "Because someone else said so" is a FAIL as far as I am concerned. Before I make a judgement, before I cut someone down, before I back someone up, I do my own homework rather than copy someone else. If it is not in policy, if it is not written down, then for all practical purposes it does not exist. Black Kite's block is a good example of a good block.
Hints for the next exam (I am still on a break from all your dramaz), the block log twice gives the title ofan essay, also, running out onto the street, looking both ways and then yelling at someone's distant, receding back, "get out", after they have left the party/pub doesn't have quite the same that's telling 'em effect as it would with proper timing and warrant. As far as I recall there were a lot of people, including myself coincidentally, who thought I needed a break, and I have not yet decided to return to the fray, it's better on the outside, more productive, less stress. I understand why people decide forever to stay away from this kind of madness and mayhem. Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I definitely support the restoration of talk page access as a logical step towards the hopeful return of Penyulap to constructive editing. I also encourage this action to ensue in the timeliest fashion. I beseech Dennis Brown to expedite this action in the interest of propriety; notwithstanding the abundant regard accumulated by the esteemed editors before me, who have asserted their full measure of good faith to encourage the same. I submit these with the highest regard. 76StratString da Broke da (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Per Ryan Vesey. Dennis is likely one of the easiest and most lenient admins to work with and so I'm suspicious when an editor refuses to work with him. Further, though I might be missing it, I cannot seem to find the reasoning behind P's desire to have tp access restored. If it is to request unblock and work out his editing issues then that's fine, but not for any other reason as WP is not a forum for non-article related discussion, nor are blocked users supposed to be actively engaging in article discussion. Lastly, this is not the proper venue to determine whether access should be restored. I'm not sure if this was posted to AN or ANI but that's where it should be done. Sædontalk20:39, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Regarding the comment above ("but he no longer wishes to communicate with me about it"), maybe I can explain... I have been talking to Penyulap (through e-mails) almost every day for the last few weeks, but I haven't had any message at all for three or four days. I don't think he doesn't want to communicate, I only think he's not available to comment. If he had had access to this page, we would have known that.--andreasegde (talk) 20:50, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Dennis specifically said that P doesn't wish to communicate with him anymore, not simply that he stopped communicating, and said that he still wishes to have tp access restored. It's unlikely Dennis would use that language if it were the case that he had simply not received a response as it attributes a positive statement. Sædontalk21:01, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your good intentions, Andreas, but you're not having any luck with your commentary in this section.;-) I've heard from Penyulap today. Please see below. Bishonen | talk21:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Surely we don't need to provide a formal list of Support/Oppose restoration of talkpage access here, at this late stage? All a talkpage-unblocking admin needs to do is read all the support in this section for such an unblock, implied (such as for instance in my own post above) or explicit. I appeal to either AGK or some other respected admin to take stock of community opinion as expressed in this section, and then unlock Penyulap's access. There's no sense in insisting on "wider input", AGK. This is not a controversial unblock of an indeffed user we're talking about right now; it's merely an unlocking of the talkpage. There is nothing controversial about it; the action was dubious (trying to put it politely here, or I'd use other words) to begin with, and there is consensus here for undoing it. This over-long deference to Fluffernutter as the somehow hallowed performer of the original lock of the page should cease. Fluffernutter, please abdicate here, if that's what it takes (though it shouldn't be). You won't lose face by it, on the contrary. To insist that Penyulap provide a "rationale" for unblocking his talkpage access (=that he eat a smaller or larger portion of humble pie) is becoming.. oh, I don't know what to call it, I'll abandon that sentence. Anyway. I understand quite well why Penyulap won't provide the pound of flesh being requested. Even if he hadn't explained it to me in e-mail, which he has done, I'd understand it; it's not hard. Please don't insist on ritual humiliation. Just return his talkpage access, come on. Oh, and EggCentric, could you stop nagging me about resuming my own admin tools? Can you really think this case is improving my appetite for adminnery, when I see what has been wrought by it here? Bishonen | talk21:12, 18 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
In regards to more than one editor erring on the side of blocking in regards to things that they see and do not understand, I shall respond to everyone publicly now. This is only because Dianna demonstrates an open mind, so I know that there is at least one person listening, and as a result I don't mind to offer a explanation.
My editorial interest began with one complex system and I joined that wikiproject when invited to do so. Recently a new wikiproject has been created to deal with the failing of a far less complex system which is never the less interesting for someone who can't visit the subject of their first interest. :) (at least I can interact with this one in a satisfying manner). The notes in question on my talkpage are part of a study I want to do myself. While other people are dealing with the novelty of the new project by offering eloquent paternal reasons why the fundamental pillar of 'everyone can edit' has to be undermined, or using it as their travel-blog, or any of a dozen other chaotic but harmless things rather than a focus on the committee's studies, I am doing my own studies first hand as I go, so if I make notes on a day in the life, so I can recall the frame of mind later on, that is part of the project, and I would question the approach of blocking first and asking questions later. I'm not saying it is the worst approach at all, that's for certain, as it was immediately trumped by the strategy of silencing the only person who could answer such an inquiry which I found quite a novel idea myself.
I would have to say though, that most of my spaceflight conversations on my talkpage are longer and more rambling. I figure on one hand if I make notes using less approachable (and therefore less useful to other people) language then I'd get less suggestions of blocking, however, as the recent farce over the null edit proved, confabulation makes up for what reality lacks, so would-be big game hunters will inevitably try their luck either way.
So long rambling edits about editor retention relate directly to half of the entire 'two' wikiprojects I am a member of. So I recommend not listening, or indef blocking, whatever works for you, personally. In RL, I go for not listening, many a time my waffling to friends gets interrupted and I'm like 'where was I?' and neither they nor I can say, not necessarily because we can't recall but maybe because neither one of us wants to, it's just that the wrong answer can resume the painful process of listening to me yap on and on and on. The best answer in those situations is to shrug and look like you're trying to remember, and just let it pass. Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Actually that was something I noticed as I was trying to follow the Evil Lord's demands. Henchmen always have trouble understanding their master's instructions, and I had interpreted 'convincing' and headed off on a forensic approach, learning and installing different morphing programs to change the bone structure to match Jimbo, and after the eyebrows and other parts of the face are done, I tell you what, it DOES look a great deal more like Alfred. However, I won't upload that without Kyle Plante giving permission, as he is not a notable person and is likely to be alive, so it would not be appropriate to parody him. I had also looked for a different interpretation of the master's decree after I had spent an hour or so morphing and painting (after the couple of hours learning the software, which is not wasted, knowledge never is). I estimated that there would be about a full day's work ahead getting the face proper and 'convincing' and at the end of the day, I would have missed the mark entirely. Such an image would not be a parody so much as simply a childhood photograph that Jimbo could donate at a moment's notice if he chose to. Pointless operation. I also grafted Jimbo's face onto a rabbit, put him into a turban, and decided they all looked like cut and paste regardless of how well the cut and paste is done. So rather than face the wrath of the evil one I fumbled for another plan, and went for a contextual parody to accentuate the haircut. It's a work in progress, and I've already hit three birds with one stone, achieving a triple-parody (but who will spot and list them first, anyone ?) I haven't removed the apple laptop just yet, there is a lot of scope there, not so much the microbee or sinclair, but people can suggest anything at all, I'm open to input here, I need someone to share the blame when Dr Blofeld starts killing henchmen in displeasure, so ideas PLEASE.
....before anyone suggests that this is editing, I'd like to point out that undermining and sabotaging the powers that be, scheming and plotting between the Evil Dr Blofeld and the Lord of DOOOM is not work, it is not stressful, it is indeed an uplifting pleasure that recharges and refreshes one's zest for living. You all should try it sometime. ENLIST IN THE ARMIES OF DARKNESS. vacancies still available, plenty of room for disposable henchmen here (please) Penyulap ☏ 00:08, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
from the news
Incidentally, thank you for the cheerful work related request. Penyulap ☏ 12:58, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Hahahahaaaa LMAO that is one of the funniest things I've ever seen on wikipedia!!! LOOOOLLL. That is awesome, soooo exceeded my expectations, thankyou!! Mind if I show Jimbo it, he'll find it hilarious I think? ♦ Dr. Blofeld20:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're welcome, it's an honour to undermine the powers that be.
Sure, though I would like it if people can comment with a view towards improving our horrid articles on Parody and Internet meme in particular by suggesting something better than the abomination on that page now, or, if Jimbo doesn't mind the parody, we can find ways to improve it and add it to the parody article. Or come up with more ways to sling s***, either one is good for me.
Now who said I only edit out of spite ? oh yes, that was me. Penyulap ☏ 21:16, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I'm thinking those ideas, as far as I can envision them, would kind of suck, although the Dr evil without a background would be useful for you to add where you want, and can composite into the pic through code, I'll do that first off (maybe it would work and can be added, I'll do one along the way). I have thought a few times that a decent weapon rising from the lake would before firing into orbit would be appropriate, but I don't know what it looks like yet. Penyulap ☏ 21:41, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)
do you know where abouts you want him ? L, R, FG BG ? Here is the code to add him to any picture, although I find merging it into a pic is more stable on a page. A single image is easier to handle and displays best on many browsers and so on.
Like this ?
Btw, are you somewhat concerned that I am truly evil ? For most, actions speak louder than words, and for myself it is true, but sometimes my words are woven so very well it frightens the reader. Have I got you yet ? Penyulap ☏ 14:16, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I've written about unblocking a day or two ago or three ? can't remember. I know of a nice image for the Mini-Me article to put in later, 98 % less suck right there. I need more evil schemes. A workgroup, a wikiproject of evil. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I hope all is well with you and company. Do you live with sockpuppets? Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned "company"? They hang on my every word, now, and it has been interesting knowing they do not know what I know and therefore my information can't be trusted. It could be somebody else's information and not my own. Sure! We are the ones our parents warned us about! 99.251.125.65 (talk) 00:37, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not back, and just because most of us are paranoid doesn't mean there aren't 90 editors watching the page. I'm just dropping off some artwork is all. (and half of it will not load onto the server, as per usual) Penyulap ☏ 00:43, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
You may call it artwork, but that's an awfully modest way of describing output from a time machine. A most unusual thing for any of us mortals to see, that. EggCentric00:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
well, I'm just learning, and it STILL won't load onto the server, the original upload took like AN HOUR for the server to go and search for duplicates before accepting the broken ass version you can see at the moment. It returns after a flight back to the page, however, I may need to reduce the size quite a bit more, as it still won't work on the third attempt. Penyulap ☏ 01:13, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
There is a 50% thumbnail that works, and shows the general idea. Ha! I wonder how many will see me absorb 3D modelling and then fly the tardis in and be all like " N...... ha! suffer. Anyhow, the old one if you look at the early versions it is also cut down from what it was meant to be, I haven't had the time to fix it because I was so concerned to fix everything else. Penyulap ☏ 01:54, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC) 01:54, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There comes a time when people wilfully restrain a third option, because the politics concerning the reasoning behind that decision have already been decided upon. One can only stand at a distance and watch the mock trial that is purported to be a hearing. It is as it is, so one should sit back and enjoy the machinations. I had never heard of C. B. Fry until last week, but I wouldn't vote for him today, even though he was a superb athlete.--andreasegde (talk) 22:23, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
His story is too tragic, surely he did more than just sew, mow, and play the flute ? is there nothing to brighten up his story a little more ? I guess you have to go with what you are given. It would have to be said that as a superman he was flawed, but as a cricketer he was gifted. Perhaps we can emphasise that he was more of a gifted sportsman, and air out the smell of regret that all dead men have. Still, that is a lot of work, and I am too critical, I have a sour mood when there is little to do but think of my sour mood. Play with me won't you ? what are some internet memes that I could draw up ? the articles on parody and internet memes are rubbish, and yet there are so many artists outside this cubefarm producing more everyday. I need an artistic outlet for my misery to expel it. Or some banner for your page perhaps ? what takes your fancy ? I have all sorts of silly interesting things to do with text, things I haven't done before, and I am sure I can annoy you with something as your pages are nice and BLANK at the moment. It was brilliant in the past, perhaps it's time to find some new humour ? Penyulap ☏ 23:28, 20 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Something featuring Marvin (you know who), QI (TV show), Pacman (old game), and a blackbird, perhaps? Funnily enough, they seem to link together nicely.--andreasegde (talk) 07:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a bit busy just at the moment, apart from my editing I'm trying to keep track of my indef banned robot PALZ, as far as I can tell, he is circumventing bot policy using a sockpuppet and uploading extremely weird and technically strange things. "Bad poetry" doesn't cover it,this is HIDEOUS, and look at Marvin's opus.ogg. I don't know what to do, I'm at wits end. I've banned him before for conspiring to murder, although that turned out to be some kind of sting operation (although it bordered on entrapment I would say, and due to diabolical use of the Streisand effect we may never know) and now this blatant socking to circumvent WP:BOTPOL. He's destroying the system and GAMING, I'm just lucky nobody will ever misquote me or take this out of context.
I think I've worked out just how bad his 'poetry ????' was, it seems to say
Now that I have gone to bed
Seagulls won't engulf my head
all my work will soon be dead
how I hate the night
All the protoss have been killed
in a process less than chilled
and the wise are not so thrilled
how I hate the plight
the terran tried to hold the shield
battle clubs the hordes did wield
to alien scum we have to yield
this is just not right
the zerg have gained an upper hand
and for now we let this stand
it's a disgrace throughout the land
the battlefield is a sight
-PALZ9000
something else I can't grasp about weary or dreary or something, there is that horrid car accident sound all through it, now, comparing that to the Vorlon poetry
"Oh freddled gruntbuggly/thy micturations are to me/As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee.
Groop I implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes. And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't!"
it leads to the dilemma of whether to let PALZ9000 pursue the apparent objective of rivalling the Vorlons for the worst poetry in the universe, or stopping him before he gets that far, with the "how bad or how good do you describe it" poetry so far ? If best is the worst, and worst is the best, how can you classify what he has done, I don't know. I think I'll unplug him in the spirit of indef block when in doubt, that is the fashion of late. yes, that's a fashionable idea, I'll do that. Penyulap ☏ 00:25, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I am mucking about with something along the lines of a moving pacman, using the same software as I used for the tardis, although I haven't done a moving parts model just yet, I did a space station with moving solar arrays but it was bare bones and never uploaded. What would a pacman do or eat if he could eat something on a banner ? Penyulap ☏ 00:52, 22 Aug 2012 (UTC)
something for your page Greg, if you like it, if not I can do it 100 other ways, your work is cool, I am so never going to be a patch on those guys, but we can all enjoy their work. Maybe softer tones that don't burn the eyes do you think ? Penyulap ☏ 03:18, 21 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I am completely at a total and and absolute loss for understanding why CU and SPI is separate, I understand that they are different things, but I can't fathom why they are separate processes for the applicant. Which one is appropriate is a monumentally frustrating question to answer, which one to apply to, it makes NO SENSE at all to me. NONE. I don't get it, I can't use it, I want to, but I cannot understand how. There is no 'front door' to it. There are two options and the distinction in why there are two choices is completely lost on me. WTF are there two choices for where to make an application ? This is an offence to reason. This is more frustrating then 10 edit wars put together and if there is someone who can assist me I would appreciate the help. Penyulap ☏ 02:58, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Penyulap. I'm not entirely sure I understand your question, as SPI and CU are not separate departments. What I do when I suspect socking is to open a SPI report and give the behavioural evidence that leads me to suspect socking. I never ask for check-user, because I don't even file a complaint unless I have pretty compelling evidence that someone is not only socking, but disrupting the encyclopedia by doing so. Which means my reports are almost always confirmed as being sockers. The clerks patrolling the page will add the check-user request for you after they evaluate the behavioural evidence. IPs will never be linked to named accounts, because to do so reveals the geographic location of the editor. Some IPs geolocate to a particular building such as a school or a library, and therefore to link the IP to a user-name invades the privacy of the user by potentially revealing their real-world identity and location.
By the way, could you use the word "watcher" instead of "stalker"? "Stalking" is a word used in some jurisdictions as a term for a criminal offense, and can thus be construed as derogatory. Thanks. -- Dianna (talk) 03:51, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I apologise for using the term, I used it in a neutral sense. I could use the word Angel if you like :) although tps seems to be the common term, or fans or entourage :) Umm, I don't know what is a middle term, but watcher seems pretty good. tpw ? I haven't seen that acronym much.
The front pages don't offer such advice. It is proper that they are updated, but such suggestions are invariably ignored, however the wqa is being merged, so there is hope I guess.
I would like to explain my approach, however, I can't do so publicly as he watches this page. What size should the request be ? I could write a thesis, which is also inappropriate, because creating a sock is an economical process, and reason dictates that a SPI should always be less work overall, on average, than making a sock. It would help so very much if there were guidelines for a request, so that I could estimate how much of each field of study to include, or, if there was a particular person assigned to the case a two way feedback loop could be established and then I would know which areas needed no further information as the investigator became satisfied with a particular aspect. This would help economise the task so that it doesn't become more effort than creating and running a sock, which, if that was the case, then it is illogical to attempt to apply. Making a public application was doomed to fail because nobody assigned themselves to the case. It is impossible to post information about the sock publicly because that educates the sock and therefore damages the project. A person would have to have experience or some idea on how to formulate the public outline of the case so that the socks cannot study it to improve their efforts. I think that the investigator should do the summary so that there is some consistency. I was alarmed at the manner Dennis outlined a socks mistakes to him on his tp. No assistance should be given when it is not absolutely necessary. The public case was domed to failure for a variety of reasons, one main one I won't cover all over again, as I don't need the grief. The other reason it failed is because it was taken to be the entire case when it was clearly and patently and labelled as only part of the case. Disinterest killed it, because it certainly absolutely lacks nothing for evidence or merit. I could draw the person's house, which makes me detest and loathe the business all the more, for I want nought to do with such rubbish. Anti-social people don't warrant the expenditure of my effort unless it is to assist someone else. Penyulap ☏ 04:20, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Well the SPI is going nowhere. It has not been lodged, I could articulate the problem in private, it is a problem that I have seen before in situations that do not involve me. If anyone in good standing would like to assist as a translator, that would work I expect, but I don't know if anyone has an interest, nor do I like the idea that it should be made to consume such resources. Penyulap ☏ 16:56, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Here's a couple of examples of effective reporting at SPI: Demiurge reports Babasalichai (195 words); Dianna reports Iloveandrea (123 words). Both are good examples because they show clear evidence that there's socking going on, and that it's disruptive and problematic. Don't write a thesis; be brief. People will thank you for it. The thing to do to get the report filed quietly is to email your evidence to a check-user. It looks like User:DeltaQuad is the only one actively working the page right now. Hope this helps. I like that new expression: Talk page angels. Hovering, waiting for an opportunity to be useful is how I visualise them. -- Dianna (talk) 20:55, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will study the examples, but I don't feel it is fair really, I feel the process is broken in the same way as the WP:BRFA process is broken. The bot process is set up in a way that can be overwhelmingly confrontational. That excludes a large portion of programmers because they do not think in emotional terms, they think in logical terms devoid of emotion, think of it like Dr Spock, who escapes to the tranquillity of reason as a refuge from the tumult. It's a similar situation. I've seen that the best programmers are unable to use that process because it is set up that way. There should be an additional pathway for them to follow, which they would, so that they can also edit the project. The SPI, at least for me, doesn't work, and DQ surely will not help. That is the problem I face, and thought today that I'd best try to (overload?) poor Dennis, because at least he is openminded enough to listen while I explain my mindframe. For me, it is important to be religiously objective in dealing with accusations. I don't accuse people without pure reason, pure objective reason. Like WDGraham, bless him, has never once made me suspicious that he could be the puppetmaster, I won't go into our issues anymore outside the proper venue, however he's never been a suspect. (I don't mind saying that openly, because if anyone can untangle socking advice out of the statement, I wish them well). Translating evidence into the mindset used at SPI, because it goes from that pure objective analysis to ** knows what. I open with remarks that clearly state that part, and only part, of the body of evidence is publicly available, so that someone with a light workload will see that there is a case to look at, but instead of look at it or ** well read what I wrote, they're like 'oh I can see nothing here' and close it well of course you can't see what isn't ** there, because I did not write it there and said so. There is no conversation when there is no converse. It's like I say hello and they say goodbye. Sure, that's a short and economical conversation, but I wouldn't call it an effective communication. There is no SPI, not for a person who puts reason into being reasonable.
They are good examples. It would be A REALLY UNBELIEVABLY MONUMENTALLY BREAKTHROUGH IDEA to put them, or ones just like it, up on the SPI or CU page, with a note that also says "SPI = CU, but for some reason that can't be fathomed we have them as separate venues just to confuse the ** out of people."
Also, what of the different levels of detection skill of the investigators ? What if they actually were unable to detect something ? I don't know what to do there, how to educate them into formulating the inquiry, working out theories and tests that can be run to gather more data as I have done to improve my level of certainty far far beyond what is apparently required at SPI according to the documentation. On one hand I think to familiarise myself with the whole process, by working on some of the harder cases that I have no involvement in, to demonstrate the sound methodology I use, but I can't stand the utter waste of effort sock-chasing is. Prevention is the easiest simplest most effective thing in the universe (well ok, except for this one guy). Penyulap ☏ 21:53, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap, the process is not broken just because you cannot be bothered/are not capable of using it. It is a very simple process. If you think an editor is a sock, you have to say (a) which editor you think they are a sock of (because to be a sock they have to have edited wikipedia before)and (b) why you think that, based on their editing. If you say User:Foo is a sock, but don't say which editor you think they are a sock of , or say why you think they are a sock of this editor, then of course no-one is going to take any notice. If you are being harrassed by an editor who you believe to be a sock, then you can email a WP:CHECKUSER. These people carry out sockpuppet investigations and have access to the checkuser tool, which may assist in this process, but whoever you contact will still want the same information. Evidence based on editing is required - abusing those involved for not being as clever as you is unlikely to help. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:54, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The difference here is in interpretation of 'everyone can edit' some see it as 'most people can edit' and there is no room for improvement. Most people can get into the building, so no ramps are required, people should just use friends, passers-by or telekinesis. Penyulap ☏ 23:51, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
I'll rephrase. Abusing those involved for not being as clever as you think you are is unlikely to help.Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC) In fact I'll rephrase that again, as the preceding could be misconstrued. Abusing those involved for not being as clever as you are positioning yourself at any given point is unlikely to be helpful. You don't need a ramp to report a sockpuppet, and you don't need to educate the checkusers, you just need to have some evidence and be able to type it into the edit box. Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you like art Elen ?
I like art.
Trouble is, I'm not very good at it. I like to learn, but I'm an idiot by comparison to any real artist like Salvadore Dali or the Wachowski brothers or the comedy of the chaser when I look at what they can do and I can't. Still I like to absorb the code of the software, every piece of software is written differently, some have docs, some have tutorials, many don't have both, and some don't have either one. I'm still trying to track down the author of the holy grail of software (in my opinion) that does the most amazing fractals, as there is no other way to work out how to use it. I compiled it, and it works, but it's not simply another language, it's like half a machine and the artist is the other half. It fascinates me.
I often look for inspiration, I was looking for inspiration this morning and thought, what makes me happy, and I thought of the nice words on my talkpages, how it's more than little letters in the code, and and thought of what I could create with the idea. I love the matrix movie, and want to do like the way the little letters rain down, but I haven't got very far yet.
here is the doodle I was playing with just then, usually I don't upload half finished things, but meh, who cares. I like to learn how to 3D model each letter of text, and then line them up, assign colours and lighting and animation, and then the layers of complexity add up, with the different strings and how they combine to make rain or walls and structure, and then the flying through it choreography and cinematography. Of course, it's all been done before in the matrix reloaded intro but I think that'd be cool to learn, and I can manage my name or something to appear from the code like at 42s where it says 'the Matrix', probably by tomorrow I guess, but I want to go get something to eat, something away from the computer. I wonder what the matrix article looks like, but then again, the question is moot right now. I guess sometimes I look for inspiration, something to make me feel good about creating something cool for the project. I really like the whole Dr Evil thing, that movie rocks, still, who knows if I can do the mini-me article or not. Sometimes I lack the willpower.
Something I'd like to know Elen, do you like art ? or movies ? what are your happy thoughts ? what inspires you. Penyulap ☏ 01:56, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Do you have happy thoughts Elen ? Penyulap ☏ 02:24, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Well it's time to give up and leave me to my indef ban forever then. For me, the process is unworkable and the procedure untenable. People can't do everything, everyone has a failing, so ban me for it, screw the lot of you. I haven't named any suspect since being blocked, I haven't implied, I've only named people who are NOT suspects, here is a string of people who are NOT suspects, WDGraham, Jimbo Wales, Dr Blofeld, Jssteil, Bish (suspicions character that Bish) hmm yes, well I could name names of people who are not suspects all day long, but I think that is enough of a list to ban me over. Should I keep going ? want some more to issue warning over so you can block me good and proper ?
Better still ban me because sockpuppets cause problems for me while I try to edit wikipedia. Let me say here, SOCKPUPPETS cause ME a lot of trouble. Some of them are nice, some are funny, and some vote, and some try to get help from admins to ban people they don't like. Ban everyone who doesn't like sockpuppets. Or better yet, just work out which sockpuppets are causing trouble, and which are harmless, no secret, clearly labelled and ban THEM instead. Oh wait, palz IS banned already, dang. Is Thomas Moore banned ? Yep, well, I guess the job is done and nobody else on wikipedia will leave because they are harassed by sockpuppets. Would someone let Dennis know that we can just put a little [tick] beside that problem with editor retention, because it's been solved. No further work is needed. "the process is not broken just because you cannot be bothered/are not capable of using it. It is a very simple process." I think we can just copy this solution to the other problems on the editor retention project page as well, it's a brilliant solution that I'm sure we can apply to a lot of problems that have been outlined by the foundation. Yes, I think editors leave simply because they can't be bothered, wikipedia is not broken at all, it's just them, and good riddance.
Artwork is very simple, would everyone like to learn how to draw a barnstar today ? The process is very easy. We'll make some barnstars in this lesson to the tune of "Bend and stretch"
Now come and join us everyone, we're going to make some barnstars today, now everybody stand up together, move your keyboard forward a little, move the chair back, that's the way, move it right back so you have lots of room to bend over. Have you done that ? Ok feet apart everybody, and sing along with the music, ready Mr Music ? Ok
Now, do we all have some lovely barnstars ? oh that's wonderful isn't it. Now that wasn't so hard now was it ? as easy as using SPI right ? oh that's lovely.
I'm not trying to be funny here, I'm in no mood for humour. So although I am using you to make an illustration in a light-hearted fashion, I do think it's improper for every individual editor to be banned because they have one area they need help with. Sure, there is the cube farm monoculture mentality which people think is some kind of policy "Everyone is EXPECTED to know and be proficient at everything" however, I think that is based upon the assumption that everyone CAN do everything. Limiting editors to those who CAN do everything is just as flawed as limiting editors to those who can do all (and only) the things that you can do.
The pillar linked from the five pillars page, the one called "NICE" under the heading "Co-operation and civility" is big on civility, but is a bit light on co-operation. In fact, it says nothing whatsoever about the Co-operation part at all. How about we just delete that part eh ? We can replace it with "Everyone is expected to be able to do everything." As in, if you can't do SPI, you can get stuffed, and the graphics lab, well, I should just tell everyone there to get stuffed as well, they can do their own art and comedy.
At 15 months old, I'm overdue.
Then of course, we should update the five pillars page, "content that anyone can edit" to "content that people like us can edit", with you know, a link to a page that explains in lovely paternalistic words how some people can't do some things and they have to be handed their hat because camaraderie and co-operation is too much to expect when everyone should be exactly like us, that is the point, that they can be banned unless they manage to do everything that we can do. The basis of which is the idea that 'we' as in the individual, can actually do everything. It's an idea believed by morons and enforced by the incompetent. So yeah, add me to the shitslide. Penyulap ☏ 16:53, 24 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Welcome back! I'm sorry if I'm a little late welcoming you back but I have been away from Wikipedia for a few weeks and my emails are also down at the moment, so that is why you have not had a reply from me yet! I've also got my GSCE results today - it's all alright and what I have expected from myself. It's good to see you here again, Penyulap! Regards, ☠Jaguar☠14:48, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad to see you too Jag. I'm confined to my talkpage which is limiting my efforts to art, rather than politics and drama, and as most people have no idea wtf I am doing or why when I do that kind of stuff, it's making me look a whole lot more productive, at least to a few who understand the art. I expect some don't know what a Parody or Internet meme is, if I judge the crowd by the articles we have made. Try to find what is funny about an Internet meme, you can't because NOBODY on Wikipedia has a sense of humour, well present company excepted. I can't prove that you're not funny, although I know I'm not funny that's for sure.
It's good that you feel it went well. There is so much politics and manipulation involved in education. The news was mentioning some criticism of where the settings were placed on the results. It interests me because they actually dumb down the population gradually, whilst boosting their self esteem, to make them more docile while the whole time almost nobody notices. Or they notice and don't know why. I'll rave on in private about it later (if absolutely necessary, which I hope it's not :) Penyulap ☏ 16:26, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Yeah I was watching Sky News today and I saw Michael Gove (education sec) come out of Downing Street and a reporter asked him "can you explain the 0.4% fall in the GSCE results?" or something like that, and all he said was "How do you do?". I was like WTF?
I can't help but notice that the actual exams have got a little harder as well as the examiners who mark them have been treating the results much too harshly. For example, in Drama, I got an F. My only F. I hate drama and I don't know why I took it, but during the final performance I told the examiners that I had bronchitis (yeah, I know what you're thinking, how can you get that at my age!?), so I lost my voice and I had trouble barely speaking! I gave my best performance and yet I got an F. However, many other people got E's and F's as well, which comes to make me think that the exams have got harder or at least they're being marked more harshly. I got B's in English Language and Literauture which is very good as I'm taking it at college, and I got an A in History (Winston Churchill will be proud of me). Of course Michael Gove is denying that politics are interferring with GSCE's, because all politicians do is deny everything when the truth it right there! Who knows? ☠Jaguar☠18:22, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think even 5 year olds escape the politics of marking. Someone I know had an ongoing struggle and outright battle really, to have the results of their exams simply recognised. The University had funding and quota limitations in place originally intended to give scholarship type assistance to those who achieved certain academic levels, the University had to limit expenditure, so rather than change the program, they instructed their staff to downgrade some of the best people. This is a hard thing to do for people who have almost perfect scores, the higher the achievement, the worse it looks. Outside independent legal authorities got involved and had 'seen it all before' from that University. Nothing new and the University was recalcitrant to correct the problems, which were ongoing. In the end, the solution was to change city, enrol at another university which recognised the study thus far, and run parallel studies in pursuit of doctorates from both universities without the first being aware of the situation (timetables are more flexible the further on you go with structured study, so you can do a Hermione and have simultaneous doctorates without a moment's bother. Idiots.)
In the end it is best to structure and direct your own study. It's the only way to learn. Simple too, I don't doubt you know how either, basically you cram like the laziest people around you. In 2 weeks you cram the exact same way that the loafers do at the library and compress a year's study down to a manageable size. You do that on a regular basis and you'll start to see that cramming 50 years of study into half a decade and having time left over for a life is a snap. HA! Penyulap ☏ 18:49, 23 Aug 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia is a project intended to create an encyclopaedia. It is not a social networking site. Blocked editors are generally allowed to edit their own talkpage in order to request an unblock or discuss activity that might lead to an unblock. However, Penyulap appears to be using their talkpage for a mixture of social networking - which is harmless but not what we are here for - and what appears to me to be trolling (although I am prepared to accept an alternative explanation if anyone has a better one). In the thread above relating to SPI, Penyulap posts a great deal of negative comment about the SPI process, implying that it is unfit for purpose and checkusers require special training (from Penyulap apparently) in order to be able to do their job. However, it is apparent from [13] that the socks that Penyulap is referring to are actually socks (real or imagined) of Penyulap. Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:31, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Only three days? I had the over/under of someone causing disruption in the name of stopping it through curiously impotent admin power-flexing at around a week. EggCentric20:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [14]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [15]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [16]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [17]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [18]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [19]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [20]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [21]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [22]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [23]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [24]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [25]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [26]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [27]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [28]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [29]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [30]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [31]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [32]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [33]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [34]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [35]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [36]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [37]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [38]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [39]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [40]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [41]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [42]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [43]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [44]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [45]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [46]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [47]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [48]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [49]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [50]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [51]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Can you create me a new montage, the current one looks wish washy and not vibrant enough.
Please use the following files arranged in the order you think looks best:
Argh, taking longer cause the pics are all mixed up. I had both of the original ones done in this much time before I think. Penyulap ☏ 19:56, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I've changed them back to the original size, changed the contrast and angle. Use the one in the middle of each example, because it has less pixels, and is easier to collage.--andreasegde (talk) 17:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've had a philosophical grumble there, in the hope to get anything at all changed, hope you don't mind me hijacking the conversation there, didn't seem like you two were having fun. So many problems with en.wikipedia and commons. Of course, there are absolutely brilliant people who come up with the crap-cry of "If you don't like it just leave" and dang, how can you argue with that ? It's the cheapest way to fix anything at all. A brilliant philosophy. A motto to live by.
Hey, do you know what Elen was saying below ? I do not know the phrase 'I've never had anybody in thrall to me before.' it's not a phrase I come across much and don't understand it, any ideas, or even from a TP Angel ? Penyulap ☏ 18:01, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pen. "In thrall to" means "in servitude to" or "in the power of", but Elen was being metaphorical there - her previous comment was "You are the master now", so she was teasing you by contrasting that with the condition you seemed to put yourself into by your inability to generate socks. It's a bit of fun (and that's something we could all do with more of, right?). Cheers, --RexxS (talk) 02:27, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ah ! thanks for that, I did not know. Learn something new everyday. But it doesn't make sense to say it is a joke, because that is precisely the reason that she blocked me, here see for yourself in my blocklog
20:38, 24 August 2012 Elen of the Roads (talk | contribs) changed block settings for Penyulap (talk | contribs) with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation blocked, autoblock disabled, cannot edit own talk page) (Reblocking talkpage. User is not requesting an unblock, and has created a further sock account)
She even put in the diff and pointed to it here. She points directly to a page on COMMONS. not on English wikipedia where she has a sysop bit. So the only reasonable way for anyone to look at this is to see that my blocklog refers to a sock (which defines legit btw) on COMMONS.
I think explaining it is easiest using the United States presidential model. Hillary Clinton or the president, ever single time there is an election coming up in Russia or Europe or Japan or anywhere at all, they are all over the news telling everyone who they should vote for and who should be in charge of that country and of course a lot of people see that sort of thing and are like 'this person is a leader in the US, not the whole freaking universe, we have our own ideas and our own leaders.'
So if I do happen to mention that I have gone up the street to ask my grandmotherly friend to make some NEW SOCKS for me, what is to stop that, or even PALZ9000 working on the Russian project from ending up in my blocklog just the same way the Legit alternate account, which she found when I personally correctly labelled it as a legit alternate account. ? This is like where one person says she doesn't have jurisdiction outside English wikipedia, and other people do. What are people supposed to think when it is actually in my blocklog. shrug. Penyulap ☏ 06:59, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Just to help you remember, you created that account on seven projects [52]. You created the commons and enwiki one on the same day - 21 August. This wasn't a problem on Commons - you weren't blocked on commons. But you were blocked on enwiki by Coren at the end of July [53]. Any account you created on Wikipedia after that would be treated as block evasion. So you got into hot water because you created the account on Wikipedia, not because of the account you created on Commons. Now it may be that you didn't realise that. You'd read the policy (you quoted the Wikipedia policy on your commons userpage), but perhaps you didn't understand that just creating an account would be treated as block evasion and would get you into trouble. I'll be frank, you sounded at the time like you were taking the mickey (to use an English phrase). As I recall, I linked to the talkpage on Commons, because of what it said on it. You kept saying you were being harrassed by socks but you couldn't file an SPI, and it now looked as if the socks were created by you. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
this is not 'evidence' of account creation on more than one project. Penyulap ☏ 07:40, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Special:Log/Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. Help:Unified_login explains it all - you created the account on Commons (no problem there), then flipped over to Wikipedia while still logged in on Commons and presto! it has activated your account here. The other dates on sulutil are when you visited the other wikis whie logged in as Bitty on Commons. Looking at your responses now, I think you didn't realise that would happen. Elen of the Roads (talk) 12:40, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
the picture goes to the 'block evasion' link. Penyulap ☏ 15:26, 4 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well better to ask the overlord about that, any mistake in judgement on my part would result in my immediate death I expect. Thankfully, it would probably be quick. Overlords save the slow gruesome deaths for non-henchies. Penyulap ☏ 16:27, 31 Oct 2012 (UTC)
What's going on Elen ? I just looked through the Evil overlord's contributions and can't see him saying a word, and he does use my page after all, so where is this new permission coming from ? wait, is it more ESP ? Also, it's not called 'illuminati' it's called 'S.P.E.C.T.R.E. and I think you'll find it explained on his userpage, so just click on the skull and crossbones to go there, on the other hand my userpage is 'illuminating' as well. Penyulap ☏ 18:52, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I have done them all, Penyulap. BTW, I think the comments above "no objection to you improving picture quality" read like a prisoner's rights. Not very nice at all. This should stop, because it makes me spill my tea.--andreasegde (talk) 19:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What ? what do you mean ? Dr Blofeld is a nice bloke, EVIL to the bone of course, but who isn't these days ? I choose to think of it as there are no 'good' and 'evil' people, there are just 'charming' and 'tedious'. I've downloaded the images. The Holy cow, or bull in a 'china' shop one doesn't look so threatening to me, but wow, what a clear precise picture it is, you really can get a good look at the beast, what software did you use on the pics ? One or two still seem fuzzy, but I expect it is pollution. Penyulap ☏ 19:28, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
If any are fuzzy, I can correct that a bit, but sharpening adds to the blurry pixels that hang around poles and the corners of buildings. I use Google's 'Picasa'. (I don't like over-complicated programmes, because there are too many windows).--andreasegde (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry Andrea, it's a joke. That's why the edit summary says something about it seeming funny to me. I seem to be surrounded by people assuming bad faith - I'm getting really tired of it. I'm sure Peny can explain about the Illuminati - overlords - images (illuminations) connections. Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:17, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, do you mind WP:UP#NOT filling up my talkpage unless it is about editing or requesting my unblock. This is not a social networking website. Penyulap ☏ 21:27, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I'm not falling for that, what am I an idiot ? I've been wearing sandals this last week cause I'm too scared to goto the shop and get some NEW SOCKS, plus, I have no idea if I'm allowed to create SOME NEW SOCKS on thewik.org either. After all, even though you only have a sysop bit on english wikipedia you banned me for making a LEGIT SOCK on commons, where you have no more rights than I do. Of course, I've been using my SOCKPUPPET on Russian wikipedia NONSTOP the whole time. I can't see me getting unblocked any time soon. Penyulap ☏ 22:02, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Well that is not great, Cluebot has, just like Mizsabot, choked to death on all the CRAP I/we churn out on this talkpage. Poor bugger. Actually, come to think of it, Elen can take some credit for killing him as well, her little section was the chicken bone that he gagged three times on before pitching face forward into his soup.
I think it was something she said. Penyulap ☏ 18:09, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Cluebot is very upset by your unfounded report of his death. He says he's still working as hard as can be. I however am wondering what made you say that, given Cluebot's function and your previous form. You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know what I have been doing with all this spare time on my hands ? I've been absorbing cinematography CGI. Actually, I've showed a few people the talkshow set that I have made. They like it. I've made a bunch of video renders, the last few are my Tardis flying around through a tunnel, mainly filler to keep people interested in the dialogue that goes with it. Hey, who doesn't LOVE watching a Tardis, right ? It is amazing, I can't wait to upload it somewhere, commons most likely, or indo wikipedia. At the moment I've been putting bits on youtube as private videos for friends to review. I'm going to thread in video people make on their webcames or with mobile phones, so that there are people on the set, same as they do in music videos for like the last decade, as well as video where it looks like a hologram being generated on the set. People can write to me here (even when blocked email works, secret knowledge right there, I can't email other people, but they can email me, they don't even need to goto the wik or another language site, or have someone pass on messages.) Yeah, so the thing is, I have to think what will the audience think, is this bit boring or too tedious and long. Is this concept too hard to relate and understand. Thing is, I HAVE to pick out the concepts that they can understand, it's mass market really.
So like, where the whole ruckus for inserting a space into an article was blown up and resulted in me getting blocked, well, that's a concept they understand. Of course the blocking admin was challenged by someone because they said in my blocklog it was for a redirect, but the thing is, they denied that it was for the redirect, and then went with mumble.
In an open source community, just like in the public eye, if you can't name it, then I didn't do it. One or two admins nodding and winking at each other just doesn't cut it. Either there is an actual policy, or it's just mumble, a concept everyone can understand and enjoy. Where people who don't like someone vaguely mumble about some ethereal secret concept that only a few understand. Well, I understand it just fine Brad, and I cannot imagine that a few others, like most of the audience, can't also find the concept approachable and easy to relate to.
See, I could say I was blocked for nothing at all, but it sounds like I'm just another generic whiny whinging person, so that's no good. Look here, the English userpage of my LEGIT commons sockpuppet Bittybattybitbotisnotabot. You click on contributions to see all the damage that has been done by this supposedly abusive sockpuppet, right here and oh my god it's brilliant, even has the whole template for blocking with the reason right there.
So there is so much to choose from, either inserting a space, or nothing at all, or a single good faith redirect (most other people describe it that way) I think I'll go with the space as the hook for their interest, and if people want to dig from there, it just gets better and better.
Plus there is the whole talkpage access thing. Who can't enjoy that one ? There is a lovely clear list of people voting, and the voting forms a very clear consensus, and then Elen has put 'PEBCAK' into an edit summary like as if people don't have access to the internet these days to know what that means, flicks the consensus aside like overturning a chessboard when you don't like it, and blocks my ass with the aforementioned reasoning. The US leader who uses their English wikipedia sysop bit to say what will or won't go on on commons, where she has no sysop bit anymore than I do. SHIT, PALZ9000 outranks BOTH of us on Russian wikipedia. What a gas. But hey, honestly, calmly, and wanting to help you and Elen and everyone else, just what is expected of me precisely ? Can I create socks on my own non-sister wiki, 'the wik' ? or gandma up the street socks ? real socks from the markets ? who knows ? all I know is there enough good material here for a lot of commentary. A good pilot episode or three. Oh, I'm going to have like a few people's heads in inverted glass jars, just like futurama, but call it futuredrama, like it was an ANI or ARBcom of the future. I have worked out how to process the audio from people's webcam video that they send me, just like I did the Peskyexpress audio, it's easy. So there is like a jury of talking heads in CGI rendered glass jars on the bench, all with something to say, I kindof like the idea myself. I can't wait to know what you all think.
So the whole "I am saying that Penyulap should not mention Elen of the Roads on this page any more, for reasons that should be obvious at this point." that is just perfect for me and my show. Because the community EXPECTS a blocked user to discuss their block with the blocking admin, who is, GUESS WHO ?? HUH, HUH ?? guess who the blocking admin was, guess, just guess, no, no I'll tell you who it was, it was ELEN!!! yes yes it was Elen, my new best friend Elen. I so totally LOVE talking with Elen and I'm glad she has a great sense of humour too. But hey, if you want to cite the new "Policy" is it Brad ? I don't think so, it's not "Policy". This new "mumble rule" where "oh yes wink wink everyone, nudge nudge, lets pretend that everyone will think that us one or two admins that don't like Pen's humour have some actual reason, some actual policy up our sleeve that we won't talk about.' Oh my, it's so choice. So perfect, I could kiss you.
Thing is, there are still two factions on wikipedia fighting for control of the project, those who follow the capitalist model, and those who follow the open source community model. The admins who figure they can model the form and function of governing a community of volunteers using their own country's Utopia as a model, be it the United States of Utopia where there is freedom to walk through Zucotti park and think whatever you want and then in rush the government forces to pepper spray and clear you out and smash your skulls, or in my case, on such a small scale, my god, the bluff succeeded. They blocked the community, not me, the community itself, from commenting further and producing another embarrassing consensus that I should have talkpage access. I was amazed that it worked, and somewhat outraged. I mean I don't mind me getting blocked, because there is always a question of consensus, what do people think, should I be blocked, or not, but blocking the community from speaking, silencing them ? That is tyranny. That is the United States all over. That is, in others words, a police state. Thing is, nobody funds a police state, they believe the lies until they know the truth, and then it stops. Nobody protest like Internet protesters. They just need a good force multiplier now and then.
The other faction is the open source community, which recognises that volunteers aren't going to work where they are treated with contempt in a class system. The whole 'admins are something special and non-admins count for nothing' doesn't translate into a place where people like the idea of working. The idea to block people and force them to sock (which I don't) to turn them into illegal immigrants like in the US where they have no rights, and if they complain they get deported well, it doesn't actually work.
So hey, whatever, I invite you all to do as you please cause I don't care. I'm happy to do as I have always done and keep the high ground whether I am blocked or not, and although I have in the past been outraged that the community itself was blocked, and didn't know that they should just complain everywhere all the time in all forums, well, I dunno, maybe you Brad, can do what they didn't entirely succeed at, and try to bluff me with an interaction ban ? oh my ficking God. That is priceless. You seem to think I don't perfectly understand Elen. Read that as you shall. She can see where the tide turns. What do I care. But hey. It's ONLY you and Elen that matter. Sure there are others who don't want me to have access Brad, they agree with you, they are right there with you hoping for dear life that they will see me squeezed off the project and blocked. Thing is Brad, if you take the risk of looking for support, you also take the risk of giving voice to the opposition. I don't care if you want to look the fool or not, I really don't. Sure, I'd like the idea of you and Elen and everyone else looking sensible and fostering an open community where people LIKE to work, but Meh. Not for me to decide. I go with the flow. I only care what the community wants, that's why I'm not going to ask for an unblock. They can do it themselves, or you can bluff them into saying my vote counts above all of their combined votes because co-incidentally it happens to match yours, or Elens, or whatever noddle minority you can collect. It's all great material. I have to condense it down into video form though, and put all the video segments together, otherwise it's all TLDR, which doesn't work as commentary. Penyulap ☏ 07:00, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
@Elen, if you are unsure what I meant, check the history of my talkpage archive or the end of my talkpage archive. It's not on my talkpage history, because cluebot wrote to the archive, but was unable to confirm a write, and so didn't delete from this page. It occurred 3 times. Simple to see if you know where to look. easy to understand humour. Penyulap ☏ 07:16, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
I figured you meant Cluebot III not CluebotNG, but I didn't think to look in the archive history when I couldn't see a b0rk in the talkpage history. As you say, must be something on the page that gave it indigestion. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:30, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
@Ihardlythinkso I think the better category here is bots that my endless yap and waffle has killed. There are now two of them that can't handle the pain of my endless drivel (which some people think is a good read, It's just bots that don't like it, oh, and a few people too I guess). Penyulap ☏ 07:21, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC) 07:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
<joke> "You should be careful, someone meaner than me might not assume it was just another of your daft jokes." Does that mean ... there's someone meaner? </joke> p.s. I dona' think she's mean—she called me "sweek" ! (Presumably, a misspell of "sweet"!?) Cheers, Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You bet I'm mean (I am of scary tiger, rawr). And once I could type at 60 words a minute, and you could even read it. These days I manage half that, and most of it is correcting typos. I certainly didn't mean what comes up first when you put sweek into Urban dictionary - although I'm sure they make most of those words up. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:55, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here folks, we can all have a laugh and be light hearted about it, Elen seems to have a good sense of humour about her actions I guess ? Sure, a lot of people got seriously pissed off and it was a horror story in Public relations, but that's all just water under the bridge now, and heck, I can laugh about it, and it looks like everyone else can too. What can you do ? such is life. Penyulap ☏ 09:57, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
hmm, gee I don't know what to say, I was looking at that and looking at the keypad and how far away k is from the other letters in sweet, and couldn't see it, and then I googled it, like I googled PEBCAK. hmm, well, I don't know, I think you just need to let it go like water off a ducks back. If you start feeling sad like I sometimes do, then I guess it effects your work.
I am reminded of that scene in Charlie and the chocolate factory, you know, the one with Jonny Depp. That's my favourite version, anyhow he can't work out why his candies taste terrible, and he is on the psychiatrists couch talking about it. He says "I mean I've always just made sweets however I felt (voice slows down) and now I feel terrible, so my candies taste bad... (looks at Ooompa-Loompa psychaiatrist and says slowly) Hey, you're goood !! (and the oompa loompa hasn't said a word the whole time just smiles and nods)
It's like that I think, cause like, when I was banned, and of course my mind can't be idle, so I'm sucking in all the 3D CGI animation and churning out art, and look at the flavour of it.
Yes, not my usual sillyness, but meh, what can you do ? kids in warzones draw tanks. Ha! and I wasn't even uncivil myself, I just pick up all the main vibes across the community and turn it into art. There was that whole Malleus thing going on and all. Penyulap ☏ 10:11, 3 Nov 2012 (UTC)
It's good to see you back again Penyulap! I still got that email by the way. I'm gonna reply to it as soon as the server is back up... Regards, ☠Jaguar☠18:56, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hey thanks Jag ! good to see you. I can't believe how many notable people take an interest in me. The man who made was it 5 million edits to the project, and the man who had the most _EVER_ articles deleted :D sorry Jag, I can't help it man, I am in such a great mood. And you are Number 1. :) Penyulap ☏ 19:08, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Why, thank you Penyulap! Of course I have broken records with having a RECORD BREAKING 8,200 articles deleted! I am very proud of it! Something to tell my grandchildren one day! I reckon people still think that your talk page is still blocked, otherwise a whole load of people will be flooding in welcoming you back! :D ☠Jaguar☠19:11, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You tha man Jag. ! welcome ? seriously, do you think so ? I mean, I know there are like one or two people who sortof think I'm funny, actually there are a quite a few who think I am funny, and there are two categories of those I guess, those who find it pleasant, and those who I should copy the template off my sockpuppet's userpage onto this page for. But I had the impression that people were scared off from talking to me, so I was like, thinking maybe people didn't care. I think some people don't know that email works for indef blocked editors. Secret knowledge I guess. Gee there is a lot of it.
Anyhow, I never go where I am made to feel unwelcome. I am in much demand in RL, or at least when I was mobile I certainly was, and never bothered in the least bit with places or people who didn't welcome me. I guess my culture is a bit strange that way. Penyulap ☏ 19:20, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
No, I am not an admin - I mean that I created 10,000 articles by hand and in an ANI discussion in May more than 8,000 of them got deleted. Unless I find proper stats I conclude that no man or bot has ever had these many articles deleted! ☠Jaguar☠23:00, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry Jaguar, I'm sure there are a lot of people who would swear you're the worst of the worst, and I'm not just saying that to make you feel better, I'm damn sure I could find some if I looked in the ANI archives. Still, like I say below, you have to aim HIGHER. Then what can they do, bring back wikipedia just to delete it twice ? Penyulap ☏ 23:06, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
You need to think BIG Jaguar if you're ever going to get anywhere. Forget that robot, it's nothing but a poser. I'm going to replace wikipedia with my own website, thewik.net at the moment of course, mathematics is a slight impediment, the number of users there is, well, if you take the total number of editors on wikipedia, and then if YOU, THE READER, subtract the total number of editors you think are complete morons, then give or take a hundred for a margin of error, ah, I can't recall, I'm not good at math. Whatever. What I need are PROGRAMMERS or funds for such.
Yes, a long shot but you have to aim high. Aim at deleting every single article on wikipedia. That should be your goal. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't do it. Penyulap ☏ 22:42, 1 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Yep, I'm gonna delete the whole of Wikipedia. That would please a lot of deletionists on here! After I deletd it I'll restore it and delete it again. ☠Jaguar☠21:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That's the spirit young man !!! Now, go over to the wik and practice deleting the main page ! Delete, restore, delete, restore... practice until you can do it in your sleep soldier !! Penyulap ☏ 22:12, 2 Nov 2012 (UTC)
Elen of the Roads did you a massive favour in allowing you to edit this page again. All you did in response was troll her. This will not be tolerated, so you have again lost your access to this page. You may appeal to the Arbitration Committee via e-mail, the address is above. Courcelles18:45, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I find the trolling accusation rather strange, because if you look at this, you will see that since 31 July 2012, Penyulap has only made contributions to this page, and to this page only. How can one be trolling on a user's own talkpage?--andreasegde (talk) 09:19, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not clear. Either:
Elen was here for the craic, and no trolling occurred. (And of course no blame attaches to either party.)
Elen was here to bait Pen, and any trolling was not by Pen.
People like pushing buttons and blocking people. Listen, I'm gonna explain this simply - Elen of The Roads is an admin. She blocked Penyulap before - when Penyulap was 'trolling' her she took it as a joke, if she had taken it hostile she would have blocked Penyulap in an instant, but nope that didn't happen! Me and Penyulap have been in email contact for months, Penyulap has ADMITTED to using socks and he has ADMITTED that he won't sock again, but only tests out socks on thewik, which me and Penyulap are the only two users on at the moment (I think). Penyulap will want to become unblocked as he doesn't sock anymore (he can't sock at the moment if his account was already blocked). I know Penyulap is gonna contest this block at ArbCom, if (when) he does, we're all going to be there for him. An indefinate block is never forever. ☠Jaguar☠19:09, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Courcelles made the checkuser block in question. I don't see why he did a checkuser and blocked indef blocked an account that was already indef blocked by him, and that proclaimed its operator (i.e. was clearly not a sock) but he claims in the block log that he did. RichFarmbrough, 19:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As far as I can tell, Courcelles did a check on the Penyulap account when he blocked it and blocked every alternate account (perhaps without noticing the PALZ9000 already was). I offer no opinion on whether the original block was or wasn't a good idea, but blocking alternate accounts is pretty much SOP when blocking indef, and a spurious "complaint" to the ombudsman that fails to even claim a breach of privacy certainly isn't a good reason to make him WP:INVOLVED – it's about as relevant as a complaint to the FDA about a parking citation. There may be reasons to object to the block, but involvement isn't one. — Coren(talk)20:13, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you are prejudging the ombudsman complaint. But once the ombudsman complaint has been made, Courcelles should not be taking additional admin actions against the complainant. We have over 1,000 admins only a handful count as involved. And it would be bad enough if there was cause for the block, but clearly there isn't, which makes it look like a revenge block. That's why I describe it as a monumental gaffe. RichFarmbrough, 22:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC).[reply]
An article that you have been involved in editing, Occupy Wall Street , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Amadscientist (talk) 03:02, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Penyulap ☏ 10:55, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
MMmmmm, Chinese, I like Chinese.
well, if you absolutely must.
ARGH! don't sneak up on me like that !-pen (inserted text)Too much spiky to sneak.--Monareal
mmm snacktime
Oh now you're talking
That's it, I won't be back until June.
. I thought of paying you in cupcakes but then your talkpage would have been littered ^^ so here's a nutty laughpoint. Strive! benzband (talk) 18:23, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Template:Rtnews has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Dirk Beetstra T C 05:37, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
Russia
Books
Bibliophile
A vehicle more to my taste
.. StrikeEagle ✈ 03:05, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
StrikeEagle ✈ 13:44, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
congratulations for your obsession with food and cooking!!!! 
I wish I had a friend like you in real life. Brendon ishere 14:45, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Brendon is here 05:48, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
(yawn) OK I'm a bit slow today. 
Penyulap ☏ 06:36, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Done Penyulap ☏ 09:41, 9 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Block review community consensus
opened discussion at Talk:Frank Costin Penyulap ☏ 10:16, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Like It's good to go, I had originally intended it as an essay, but then thought to write it as an article so that people would keep their little fingers off of it. So there is simply no need of the accidentally created one. Thank you for cleaning it up. Penyulap ☏ 19:00, 30 Jul 2012 (UTC)
"
lists.wikimedia.org. Courcelles 18:41, 4 November 2012 (UTC)