User talk:Blomsterhagens

A Barnstar for you

		The Barnstar of Integrity
		For your ambition to develop articles which are inaccurate, product of Anglo-American focus , describing what people think rather than facts, and therefore are POV, against a massive resistance. Dan Koehl (talk) 09:11, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Dan! Your support is greatly appreciated Blomsterhagens (talk) 09:25, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Baltic States

Hi there. I'm fine with the change you made here[1]. I'm certain however that you meant EST and not LT since LT is the article itself! Regards. --Edin balgarin (talk) 11:03, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ultima Thule

Hello. I noticed your edits on Saaremaa and your question about the source in the edit summary: the only mention of Ultima Thule in the paper refers to Lennart Meri's theory about Saaremaa ("Meri analyzed the voyage of Pytheas from Massalia (Marseilles), who between 350-325 B.C. visited Britain and possibly also the island of Saaremaa (Ultima Thule) to get information on the Baltic Sea (Metuonis) and its amber"), so it's based entirely on what Meri wrote. A further mention of Meri in the paper, and an interesting quote from Tacitus about the similarity between the people who at that time were known as the Aesti and the Swedes is this: "This gave Meri (1 976) the reason to suggest that Lake Kaali and the meteorite catastrophe were known among the geographers and philosophers before Cornelius Tacitus, who in his book De Origine et Situ Germanorurn Liber wrote "Upon the right of the Suevian Sea [the Baltic] the Aestyan nations [Estonians] reside, who use the same customs and attire with the Suevians [Swedes]. They worship the Mother of the Gods." - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 16:51, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I read the same passage. That's why I had the question. They don't say to whom they attribute the "ultima thule" claim mention, they just put it in the brackets. So I added it as a reference, but did not mention it in writing on the page. Blomsterhagens (talk) 17:00, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Re the same customs & attire quote - yes, I read that as well. It's a nice quote, looks notable enough to be mentioned on the article page itself. Blomsterhagens (talk) 17:23, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

Your edits are close to vandalism. The fact that you can't be bothered to read Finno-Permic languages and so don't know what it says is not an argument that anything in it is incorrect or unsupported by the sources that so obviously support it. If you can't be bothered to understand what you're doing, don't bother to do anything. Especially do interfere with editors who actually have read the sources and do know what they're doing. — kwami (talk) 22:18, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Are you going to provide a source for your edits or not? If not, let's go ask for a third opinion. Blomsterhagens (talk) 22:19, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

My god, you can't even be bothered to read the lead of the article! How lazy must you be to argue about something you know absolutely nothing about without even that much effort? — kwami (talk) 22:21, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You can go personal all you want. You're still going to have to provide a source for your claims. Right now that source does not exist. Blomsterhagens (talk) 22:22, 13 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I have indicated sources, but I have no control over whether you read them.

Some of your recent edits have been vandalism. That can get you blocked. — kwami (talk) 19:33, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Are you able to link to a diff with you indicating a source? Blomsterhagens (talk) 19:46, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

kwami, please avoid accusations of vandalism here; that sort of escalation isn't helpful... assume good faith. wbm1058 (talk) 19:53, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Take a look at Russians § Origin:

Russians in northern European Russia share moderate genetic similarities with Finnic peoples, who lived in modern north-central European Russia and were partly assimilated by the Slavs as the Slavs migrated northeastwards. Such Finnic peoples included the Merya and the Muromians.

In this context the article seems to refer to Volga Finns, not Baltic Finns. wbm1058 (talk) 20:05, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Yes, this is a good find. Copy-pasting what I wrote on the talk page here: "Both the university of Tartu and the European Commission treat Finnic peoples (ethnicity) as a synonym to Baltic Finns (ethnicity). See the linked sources above. If it differs in some older sources, then fair enough. That should be addressed. But renaming this entire article for that purpose is not proportionate to the linking issue at hand. " Blomsterhagens (talk) 20:17, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Thanks, @Wbm1058: Yes, there are dozens of cases like that in our articles and sources. As for 'vandalism', Blomsterhagens has made a few edits like removing all the links from the 'Finnic peoples' dab page except the one to the Baltic Finns, which seems awfully close to vandalism to me, and was certainly not made in good faith. — kwami (talk) 20:19, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, but that would better be characterized as edit warring rather than vandalism. wbm1058 (talk) 20:32, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If that was edit warring, then I apologize. Blomsterhagens (talk) 20:36, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I asked you for sources on numerous occasions and you did not provide any. I think I waited ~24h before I removed them. Next time I can wait longer. I'm not accusing you of vandalism, because I know you are doing this in good faith, but by your own standards, if roles were reversed, I wonder how you'd define the complete renaming of an entire terminology by someone, affecting the identity of yourself and millions of other people, without the editor discussing it on the talk page first? Blomsterhagens (talk) 20:26, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the Finnic peoples article still has 0 sources. Blomsterhagens (talk) 20:42, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Disambiguation pages are only intended for navigation (disambiguation), and thus are not generally expected to have sources. wbm1058 (talk) 20:46, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, that was my mistake then. I apologize. To take everyone's points into consideration and hopefully clear the main problems, I'd be fine with the broad-concept article being "Finnic peoples" and the current "Baltic Finns" article being "Baltic-Finnic peoples". We then have to build up the Finnic peoples article and I'm happy to help with that. Blomsterhagens (talk) 20:53, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that Finno-Ugric peoples covers the broader group, and as someone will surely eventually suggest that Finnic peoples should be a WP:Broad-concept article rather than a disambiguation page, then maybe we should just redirect Finnic peoples to Finno-Ugric peoples. wbm1058 (talk) 20:36, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate the alternative option, but that is even less correct. Finnic and Ugric are clearly separate on the root level. The entire idea of "Finno-Ugric" is that it splits into Finnic and Ugric. What about keeping the broad-concept article as "Finnic peoples" then, but renaming "Baltic Finns" to something else? Blomsterhagens (talk) 20:39, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Although at this point I would rather prefer the Baltic Finns article to be renamed back to Finnic peoples, as it's the most common and modern definition, and then the disambiguation page to also have "Finnic peoples" in it, but something added to the title. Blomsterhagens (talk) 20:45, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this is interesting – Ugric peoples was redirected to Ugric languages. A "peoples" link shouldn't retarget a languages topic... it would make more sense to redirect that to Finno-Ugric peoples. Can these be separated, or not? wbm1058 (talk) 20:54, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that "peoples" should not be directed to "languages", even though mostly the terms are intertwined. But Ugric also cannot be redirected to Finno-Ugric, unless there's 0 content I guess, because "Ugric" by default excludes "Finno". Blomsterhagens (talk) 20:59, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd view Finno-Ugric as a broader concept that includes both, rather than a narrow concept that excludes both. wbm1058 (talk) 21:07, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you are right in that. I think if "Ugric peoples" has no content, then redirecting it into "Finno-Ugric peoples", instead of languages, makes total sense. Blomsterhagens (talk) 21:08, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But "Finnic peoples" should absolutely stay as a separate article. If the end-outcome is that "Finnic peoples" will become a broad-level article, then there is a lot to cover there and I do wish to write content for it. Blomsterhagens (talk) 21:15, 15 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Request for comment

Hi, there is currently a requested move at Talk:Odessa that you may be interested in since you previously discussed renaming the article. OjdvQ9fNJWl (talk) 10:16, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Finnic peoples

Hi. Since we'd talked about this before, I thought I'd mention there's a renewed edit-war. Figured a few more eyes couldn't hurt. — kwami (talk) 22:04, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Proposed deletion of Jaen (name)

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