Talk:Nigger (dog)

Merge?

This is NOT a piece of information worthy of its own page. Merge this into pertinent articles. 24.98.65.137 (talk) 10:26, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• I do not agree, the dog is famous in its connection to RAF history. I understand the name does cause problems, but history should not be rewritten because of today's views. --BSTemple (talk) 10:48, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• It is referenced and is suitable for an article, though I cannot see it getting much bigger. Keith D (talk) 00:23, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree that it probably warrants its own page (and is at least somewhat expandable – Gibson talks about him quite a bit in Enemy Coast Ahead). It should probably also mention the context most people are likely to know it from, the Dam Busters clip in the background of The Wall. – iridescent 02:14, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

New quicklink

Added quicklink to "Oppression" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.102.198.192 (talk) 01:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Captain Scott - Disambiguation

Just to confuse things, Nigger was also the name of Captain Scott's dog on his final expedition. The dog is repeatedly shown and referred to in Herbert Ponting's edited compilations of the film he took on the exhibition, most notably 90° South (1933). —Preceding unsigned comment added by LDGE (talk • contribs) 21:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

That sounds worthy of inclusion if appropriate references can be found. -- Thinking of England (talk) 01:53, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes I agree. As it stands Guy Gibson's dog is the most famous with that name. It's a pity that the name is misunderstood and confused, especially by the politically correct brigade. The article, hopefully, goes some way to correcting this.--BSTemple (talk) 07:47, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps some thought should be given to re-titling the page N-word (dog) maybe? 9 (talk) 14:50, 5 April 2012 (UTC) in an odd humour.

'Nigger' cannot have been Captain Scott's only dog, as the explorer took a team of sledge dogs with him on the Terra Nova (and then did not maximize their use). Bigturtle (talk) 15:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

The term 'nigger' as a form of racial abuse did not exist in the UK in the same way that it did in the US, for historical reasons, i.e., the lack of modern-era slavery in the UK. In addition, in an empire of just about every skin colour possible, it becomes very difficult to sustain any initial racist opinions one may have once one gets to know people of other races. A few managed to do this but, not all. It is very hard to maintain insulting views of people who are fighting for your side, sometimes dying for your side, so, in general, Britain was not a racist place/culture compared to some. A condescending one perhaps, but not one that had the same sort of intent towards other 'lesser races' that one like Hitler's or similar had. Or such as Apartheid in South Africa.

The use in the UK of 'nigger' as a term of offence did not really happen - outside of racist organisations such as the National Front - until the late 1970-early 1980s, when the word became associated with racist insults. Prior to that 'nigger' was just used for something black. You see, prior to the Empire Windrush in 1948 there were relatively few coloured people in the UK, perhaps the largest number being in seaports such as London and Liverpool. Otherwise, there were very few non-white people to insult, and the average Briton who had never ventured abroad had probably never even met a black person. So 'nigger' didn't have the racist overtones in the UK that it has now. Otherwise why would you call a dog Nigger. Imagine shouting out to your dog its name in front of people. It would be embarrassing.

FWIW, IIRC if a racist person in the UK wanted to be insulting to a black person in the 1970s-80s they usually called them 'wogs', although strictly speaking that only originally referred to Egyptians. And that wasn't originally a term of abuse either.

BTW, in British Africa the general term for black people was 'African' and the only derogatory one would have been kaffir, borrowed from the Afrikaans, so the term 'nigger' was not even used within the Empire. And 'kaffir' also wasn't originally a term of abuse in British eyes either - British Kaffraria.

.. and what the PC brigade seem to forget - if they ever knew it at all - is that it is not what is said that's important - it's what is meant by it.

Nigger was a common name for black Labs in Britain at the time. Although it is difficult to see past present-day US cultural dominance, Britain had never been a plantation society, slavery had never been legal in England (as Lord Mansfield ruled in the Somerset case in 1772) and no lynchings had ever occurred here. Instead, the term 'nigger' was associated above all with black American minstrels of the early 20th century, who were so popular in Britain that almost every child had, as well as a teddy bear, a cuddly toy minstrel called a golliwog, right through to the 1960s and 1970s. That's all gone away due to the simple dictates of good manners, because black British people who've arrived since the Empire Windrush find it weird and disturbing. But it was never anything to do with stringing someone up from the nearest tree because he'd been seen walking with a white girl. Black GIs in wartime England were rather bucked to find that they were popular, and British publicans always refused the US Army's requests to put up a colour bar because it wouldn't be lawful, and black men could dance and walk out with white girls if they liked and they wouldn't be attacked and hanged from the nearest tree. Khamba Tendal (talk) 19:07, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Nigger was certainly not an offensive slur in British English before the 1970s. It was a fairly neutral term for a black American or an ethnic African, and by extension anything black or dark brown. There was an official textile colour called 'Nigger Brown' and you could buy 'Nigger Brown' sewing thread in any haberdashery. The vast majority of British people didn't have racist attitudes to blacks during WW2. When the US entered the war there were frequent fights between black and white GIs in pubs and dance halls. British troops and civilians present would often join in - on the side of the blacks! There are a number of reasons why they disliked the white Americans, but it shows they had nothing against the blacks, and indeed sympathised with their position in the American culture of the time. --Ef80 (talk) 12:04, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Are you actually insane? The UK were the ones who brought slaves to the US in the first place. It takes a massive leap of faith to believe that the UK was not ok with slavery when pretty much all of it's history has been oppressing and systematically exterminating or displacing minorities. I mean, on one hand you guys want to be historically accurate with the name, but not with history itself? Get yourself checked, pal. That's insane.

190.163.234.4 (talk) 14:07, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

Of course there was involvement in the transatlantic slave trade by some British people, and slavery was practised in some British colonies until the 1830s - this had developed from the earlier use of (white) indentured labourers in settler plantations in the 1700s. Nevertheless, slavery never had any legal status in Britain itself, 'nigger' was a neutral term relating to American (not British) blacks in British usage, and black people were generally popular in Britain. And no IP, I'm not insane, just not ignorant and bigoted. --Ef80 (talk) 16:26, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Censorship, or not?

I just watched the film on Channel 5 (18:30 Hrs, 01 Jan 2014). The word Nigger was used without censorship in connection with the dog, but I have a sneaky feeling it was dubbed out when used as the codeword to report the breaching of the dams. Anyone else notice this, or am I imagining it? 86.29.59.246 (talk) 23:56, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

I didn't watch it tonight, but it was on (I forget which channel) in the UK a few months ago. It definitely included the receipt of the Morse code, and the operator said "nigger" out loud. Lynbarn (talk) 00:58, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

It is totally wrong to edit the name Nigger, it was the name and should remain so TOO MUCH PC THESE DAYS if it offends get over it and grow up 51.9.239.74 (talk) 12:55, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Photo caption

A similar photo of the same group, clearly taken a few moments earlier or later, appears on p.175 of Enemy Coast Ahead -- Uncensored, by Gibson (Crecy, 2005). Gibson, laughing, is offering the stem of his pipe to Nigger, who seems a bit wary of it. The caption says that the aircrew are from 106 Squadron, not 617. This seems likely. Gibson and Nigger were with 106 Squadron for a year from March 1942 and there are a number of group photos taken during that time. 617, formed in March 1943 for a special operation in mid-May, didn't really have time for that kind of thing and Gibson barely got to know most of the aircrew, especially not the NCOs, who predominate in the picture. One would have to check the file caption for the original in the RAF Museum's collection, but it's probably 106.

The same edition of Gibson's book, p.146, mentions that Gibson acquired Nigger in autumn 1941. At that time Gibson was flying Beaufighter night fighters with 29 Squadron. Though the article says that the dog accompanied his master on 'training flights,' Gibson writes, a little surprisingly, 'A great flyer was Nigger; he used to go up on nearly every patrol.' However, the dog did not see combat: 'The enemy bombers had almost ceased their activity, both by day and by night,' due to the campaign in the Soviet Union. Khamba Tendal (talk) 18:38, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Strange phrasing

What does "Peter Jackson, producer of the remake that later began, said ..." mean? 87.75.117.183 (talk) 13:11, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2020

One of the places that the scenes with the dog turn up is in Pink Floyd's "The Wall" as cutscenes and playing on the TV that Pink is watching as he suffers a breakdown in his hotel room. The loss of his father in the war is a recurring theme as part of Pink's alienation, and Roger Water's seems to have specifically emphasised the use of the dog and its name as a metaphor for the counter culture clash between values then (the 1940s) and now (late 1970s of the film), which morphs into the fascism scenes later. As well as highlighting Pink's inability to express his feelings in person, rather than as a marketed construction of the music industry via his frustrated pop song lyrics 92.21.89.36 (talk) 22:13, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

You need a reliable source for that. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 22:14, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Meaning of name

Should the article mention somewhere that Nigger in this context is not intended as a reference to black people? 2001:7D0:8315:8480:8469:B8B1:DD8F:75B2 (talk) 13:08, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

No it should not mention anything like that Nigger was his name and should remain so world is too PC these days get over it if you are offended. 51.9.239.74 (talk) 12:52, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

We Can Live with the Story of Some War Soldiers dog, named Nigger

Many people loved it when they tore down our Southern monuments, yet- Here is this word USED REPEATDLY in this and MANY OTHER Posts on Wiki- The monuments were taken down because of the" reminders of SOUTHERN PREJUDICE at the time of war" - BUT THIS IS FINE: Nigger (dog)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to navigationJump to search Nigger Nigger (dog).jpg Nigger (bottom centre) with members of No. 106 Squadron, (Gibson's previous unit); he appears to be wearing a German Iron Cross or similar decoration on his collar. His owner, Wg Cdr Guy Gibson, is crouching on the right with a pipe in his mouth. Species Canis lupus familiaris Breed Labrador Retriever Sex Male Died 16 May 1943 RAF Scampton, United Kingdom Resting place RAF Scampton, United Kingdom 53.30006°N 0.55197°W Occupation Squadron mascot Owner Wing Commander Guy Gibson Nigger was a male black labrador retriever belonging to Wing Commander Guy Gibson of the Royal Air Force, and the mascot of No. 617 Squadron. Gibson owned the dog when he was previously a member of 106 Squadron. Nigger often accompanied Gibson on training flights[1] and was a great favourite of the members of both 106 and 617 Squadrons. He was noted for his liking of beer, which he drank from his own bowl in the Officers' Mess.[2]

Nigger died on 16 May 1943, the day of the famous "Dambusters" raid, when he was hit by a car. He was buried at midnight as Gibson was leading the raid. "Nigger" (Morse code: -. .. --. --. . .-. ) was the codeword Gibson used to confirm the breach of the Möhne Dam. Nigger's grave is at Royal Air Force station Scampton, Lincolnshir MizzAugust (talk) 05:57, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

What does Wikipedia have to do with some monuments? Wikipedia didn't take down those monuments. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:34, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

NIGGER

Thank you so much for keeping the article about 'Nigger' the dog uncensored. It was his name and should remain so. Thank you again TOO MUCH OF THIS PC RUBBISH THESE DAYS 51.9.239.74 (talk) 12:48, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

All of Wikipedia is not censored. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 13:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)