Talk:Harvard, Massachusetts

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Untitled

I've extended the history to include some more interesting stuff. I'd expand further but I don't have the reference material here. And I've added a government section and added the Infobox. The info box made the formatting strange so I moved the Shaker images to the left. I'm tempted to remove the barn in favor of a fruitlands image if we can find one. John 23:39, 26 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Requested move 9 August 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus not to move the page to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 18:26, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Harvard, Massachusetts → Harvard, Worcester County, Massachusetts – DAB from Harvard University, Harvard is a PRIMARYREDIRECT to it. See Talk:Corfe Castle (village)#Requested move 12 April 2014, Talk:Windermere, Cumbria (town)#Requested move 16 January 2016 and Heathrow (hamlet) for similar situations. However I realize that USPLACE is different to UKPLACE in that in America is is considered part of the name so may make this less clear cut. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:34, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I don't see that further disambiguation is needed. In following the standard US placename, state form, the current title makes it clear that the article is about the town, not the university in Cambridge (which is overwhelmingly identified as Harvard or Harvard University, but AFAIK never as Harvard, Massachusetts). ╠╣uw [talk] 09:49, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Problem is that the uni is also in Massachusetts, hence "Harvard, Massachusetts" could apply to either. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:53, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

But not everything that happens to be situated in Massachusetts is commonly called "Thing, Massachusetts" — and especially not the well-known university, which I've often heard identified as "Harvard" or "Harvard University", but never as "Harvard, Massachusetts". The placename, state form used in the United States is understood to refer to a populated place like a town or city, hence the current and longstanding title of the article. Changing the title as you propose would wrongly suggest that we have an article about another settlement in Massachusetts called Harvard, which we don't. ╠╣uw [talk] 13:13, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Commonly called is not particularly relevant, is Head Down, Hampshire, which is disambiguated by state a settlement? What about Harvard (town), Massachusetts? I acknowledged the US convention in my nomination and agree this RM is weak but it will be interesting to see what others think. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:25, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Head Down, Hampshire isn't disambiguated by state — it's in the UK. For article titles that do follow the placename, state convention (from Sleepy Eye, Minnesota to Wide Awake, South Carolina), I would assume that they refer to settlements, since that's commonly what that construction is used to identify. ╠╣uw [talk] 10:02, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In England counties are the equivalent of states, where "Placename, ceremonial county" is just used for disambiguation. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:20, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Could you explain in a little more detail what readers, in what circumstances will have trouble with it as it is? Someone entering "Harvard" will get the university - which seems correct. If someone enters "Harvard, Massachusetts", they get what common American practice one would expect. Of those that smallish percentage that aren't familiar with American practice, its not at all clear what someone entering "Harvard, Massachusetts" might intend. Some might mean the school. Some the town. Not as clearly one or the other as simply "Harvard." And if they are on the page, it obvious its not the university from the first sentence, no need to change the title. Who are you suggesting the change for? --John (User:Jwy/talk) 04:05, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Readers who know that the university is located in Massachusetts, probably readers who don't live in America or aren't familiar with "Placename, Statename" refering only to settlements would benefit more. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Those that 1) know it is in Massachusetts, 2) Don't know our "Placename, Statename" custom AND 3) would enter "Harvard, Massachusetts" before entering just "Harvard" is very small, I suspect. See also Stanford, California. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 18:13, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Both the uni and settlement are the same place, but I would argue that should have "census-designated place" added. Or maybe "Stanford" could redirect there or to the DAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:45, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Generally what if a primary topic exists for the base name then the qualified name (one with brackets or a comma) will also follow it, for example Corfe Castle, Dorset redirects to the castle its self, Aller (river) redirected to the German river while it was primary, Cambridge, England redirects to the city in Cambridgeshire, at Cambridge, even though there are multiple in England. That's different with River Welland and Welland River which aren't qualified. This is a possible exception due to the comma state arguably being part of the name. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:46, 14 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Stanford was something of an aside (but they are different things - one is a "town" the other is the university). My key point is that the change would be of use to an extremely small number of people. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 15:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose the hat-note is sufficient. Referring to the university in this way would be very unusual. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:27, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Notable People

According to this publication, Ted Sizer was both a student and faculty member at Harvard University, but was born in New Haven, Connecticut and has no apparent association with Harvard, Massachusetts. I have removed his name from notable people. Matthew Sumpter (talk) 14:16, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

He lived in town. I'll find a source. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 04:33, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Times obit comes through! --John (User:Jwy/talk) 04:51, 25 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]