Talk:Feta

cow milk indeed

check any and I mean any greek company that makes fetacheese exaple :http://www.dodoni.eu/el/page/proion_prostateumenes_onomasias_proeleuses

and you will see that it is made from 70-75%cow milk and 25-30%sheep milk no goatmilk at all EVER we have plenty goat cheeses but if you say "your feta has goat milk in it" it is consinder a BIG insult check it with any greek imigrant or any blog you can find. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.72.81.207 (talk) 19:06, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

you mean sheep's milk

feta has nothing to do with cow's milk.it's 70%-30% (ewe-goat) or 100% ewe and also needs at least 3 months to ripen.

if you are not a native speaker of greek please check your dictionary and don't confuse people any more. Cow's milk makes beyaz panir, sirene(bg) and teleme (rom).teleme (lefko tyri) is also found also in greece but it's cheaper than FETA.

here is the site of the biggest dairy company in greece Tyras

http://www.tyras.gr/en/products/pdo-products/feta

peace — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.64.38.106 (talk) 21:53, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Pasteurisation

The table says "see article" concerning pasteurisation, but then the article doesn't mention if it's pasteurised. So? Maccoinnich 21:38, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

No, the true feta is not pasteurized. However, feta cheese must mature in cellars for more than 3 months to avoid the danger of disease transmission. Large Industry, though, pasteurizes the milk before using it. Apapac 14:09, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Storage

Historically (including, presumably, during "Homeric" times), did feta or feta-type cheese always have to be stored in liquid? Thanks ~ Dpr 02:11, 21 July 2005 (UTC) That's because such type of cheese is actually cured with salt and yeast. If you do not keep it in water it becomes too dry and salty.

It is not cured with yeast, only salt is used. Everything that forms on top has to be removed weekly or biweekly. As my grandmother was doing, usually cheese cloth was placed below brine surface in a wooden tub/vat ( serbian: kaca ).

Then it is removed, all yeast impurities formed on top are collected with cloth, washed away and sterilised. Pixius talk 23:19, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Why not cow milk

While it is true that the name "Feta" is protected within the EU, Denmark is still the biggest manufacturer of Feta cheese in the world, and most - if not all - of that is produced from cow milk. The earlier revisions of the document was actually more correct than the later versions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.95.29.95 (talk • contribs) 18:13, 3 November 2005

It is actually inaccurate to say "goat and sheep only," since there is in fact quite a bit of cow's milk feta available. I've changed the page to reflect this. Basil Fawlty 02:07, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

It depends partly on what you mean by "feta". According to the EU definition of feta, there is no such thing as cow's milk feta, just like there is no such thing as non-French champagne. According to common usage, of course, both exist. --Delirium 01:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually Denmark is not the biggest manufacturer. Greece produces about 115000 tons per year, Danemark about 27640, France about 8000-20000 tons and Germany about 20000 and 40000 tons. Also Greece consumes 85% of the EU feta production. These are documented in the of Justice of the European Communities press release 92/05, of October 25, 2005 George Schizas, 21:06, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

--User:apapac That some countries produce a white chhese resembling feta from cow's milk, does not mean that feta may contain cow's milk, which alters its taste.

ACCORDING TO SOME SITES SUCH AS "LONELY PLANET", FETA HAS BEEN MADE IN GREECE FOR 6,000 YEARS FROM GOAT'S/SHEEP'S MILK, AND THE SPREAD TO ASIA MINOR, THE EAST AND EUROPE SHOULD NOT BE SURPRISING THROUGH ALEXANDER THE GREAT'S INFLUENCE IN BOTH THE EAST AND EUROPE. LETS NOT FORGET GREECE HAS BEEN TRADING (CULTURE, CUISINE, LANGUAGE, LITERATURE, CHRISTIANITY) WITH ASIA, THE EAST AND EUROPE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.124.187.12.134 (talk) 03:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes, anon IP, I am sure we were all in danger of forgetting Greece's historical background. Thank you for remind us - wow, that was a very close call! Duh. HammerFilmFan (talk) 13:04, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Turkish white cheese / beyaz peynir

I have always thought that Turkish beyaz peynir (white cheese), which is referenced in the doner kebap article, was the same as feta. Does anyone know? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chinawhitecotton (talk • contribs) 11:40, 16 November 2005

White cheese is a general name. Feta-kind of white cheese in Turkey is one of the white cheeses. There are many many kinds of white cheeses. By the way, that feta cheese was known to ancient Greeks doesn't mean that it wasn't known to other ancient peoples. So taking the ownership og feta cheese by Greeks is odd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.79.194.241 (talk • contribs) 14:22, 25 July 2006

I think "feta" in english simply means white cheese. Doesnt "feta" in greek mean "white cheese" too? I havent heard of greek feta being made in some specific way that differs from others, nor any of the greek feta I`ve tasted was significantly different from the variaty of white cheeses we eat in Bulgaria. Haloumi is clearly different, for example. Is feta special just because its greek? Koliokolio 21:39, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

No, "feta" in Greek means... feta and not "white cheese". Feta is not the only kind of white cheese in Greece. Other Greek white cheeses are for example anthotyros (ανθότυρος), manouri (μανούρι) and mizithra (μυζήθρα).

Actually, feta in Greek does not mean anything. Feta is given by Italian merchants seeing cheese being sliced and stored. This could be any white cheese Pixius talk 23:17, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Then white cheese should not redirect here. deniz^T_C 01:36, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

In Greece we usualy describe the "white cheese" as "cheese" and feta is the most common to be found. It's also not rare at all people to comfuse "feta" whith other similar white cheese if they look alike or served the same way (square fat slice with oil and oregano). This usualy happens when they travel out of Greece but it 's made clear to them once they tasted it. The same thing happens with "oil" as the word "oil" is beeing used daily to describe "extra virgin olive oil" while most people use virgin olive oil for all cooking purposes, fry an egg, potatoes, salads, mix with lemon for fish, even fix a rusty lock (up until now at least, because of the economy failure other oils are gaining ground). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vas180 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

That some countries produce a white cheese resembling feta from cow's milk, does not mean that feta may contain cow's milk, which alters its taste. apapac

common usage is what matters

It certainly should be mentioned in the article that the term "Feta cheese" is covered by a protected designation of origin in the EU. However, in Wikipedia common usage is what matters, not trade marks. Isn't it pointless and silly to create other aricles (like Sirene) for feta cheese not made in Greece, when it's actually the same thing? --V111P 06:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

If by "feta cheese not made in Greece" you mean "cheese similar to feta not made in Greece" then yes it is maybe pointless creating more than the enough information. But be warned: "sirene is not feta not even close. By personal experience there is different texture and taste so diferent cheese. As a matter of fact there actualy are different types of sirene, some of the best quality i 've taste are very close to the original feta as in smell, yet softer and they look diferent (no little holes and not so bright white).

Your personal experience is subjective :) . There are sirene better than feta, there are fetas better than other fetas, and I have eaten sirene far better than feta. Feta is a marketing name, nothing else and there is nothing special in feta which puts it on pedestal. If you make cheese in Dojran 5 meters from border on each side, it is going to taste the same. Then, sirene is somehow tied to whole Bulgaria, and in reality it is connected with west, south west Bulgaria, east, south east Serbia, and Macedonia. Pixius talk 14:33, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

country of origin

I read on igourmet.com that the country of origin of feta is not Greece, but Romania. Can anyone confirm or deny this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.91.203.5 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 19 July 2006

Being Romanian, I can tell you for sure that feta is not a traditional Romanian cheese. First time I ate feta, it was well after the communist era and it was imported (i think it was the Danish cheese brand)I remember that the high content of fat and salt hit me like a truck (not in a bad way, I do enjoy it from time to time). I am sure that feta is currently produced in Romania, but I promise you, the recipe is not indigenous. The taste of telemea is very, very different from feta, lighter, less salty, less creamy, less fatty.

Noone knows who is the country of origin. Probably at the time of origin countries didnt exist. Besides most countries in the Balkans (and maybe all Byzantian/Ottoman empire, because if you go to Lebanon or Syria you will find the same) share similar cuisine with only local variations and sometimes differing names. Cheese, yoghourt, burek, kebap/kofte, musaka, you name it. Some of those also spread north through cultural diffusion to Eastern and Central Europe, Ukraine or Hungary for example. Koliokolio 21:42, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

If no one knows the country of origin, why is listed as Greece in the article? I checked this article because I had a friend claim it's from Bulgaria. Cody M wilson 21:42, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Simple, because the specific cheese under the specific name is copyrighted by Greece. See also French_cheese#List_of_Protected_Designation_of_Origin_French_cheeses. Miskin 03:15, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Odd. Sounds like a fait accompli on the part of Greek feta producers as producers of the same cheese in Bulgaria and Turkey are barred from using the one common name under which this type of cheese is known in most Western languages. Gdeleuze (talk) 09:19, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

This is just how it is, there are countless of products that are copyrighted by a specific country of origin, and this is a typical case with France and many cheeses variations of which exist in Belgium and Switzerland. This is not the right place to complain about the system. And btw, the Bulgars the Turks came to know this cheese via the Byzantine Greeks. 77.49.201.141 (talk) 22:08, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

PDO laws are very similar to trademark laws, and noone considers registering 'Pepsi' a fait accomplit. Feta became a known trade name in western countries because it was the Greeks that first started exporting it; if all producers in this country had merged into a single company they would actually have the legal right to register Feta as a standard trademark.94.67.205.169 (talk) 10:45, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Please provide reliable sources, if any of this "disputed" is included in the article. Unsourced changes in this article with be reverted. --Evb-wiki (talk) 22:27, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I think Feta consumption is highest in Turkey compared to other Balkan countries but I would give credit to Bulgaria. AverageTurkishJoe (talk) 06:17, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Just because it's labeled "Feta" doesn't mean it's Greek. Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, Macedonia, Ukraine, Turkey, Iran, and several other countries in both Eastern Europe and the Middle East have the same cheese. Originally it was made from sheep's milk, however, in the later stages of industrialization cheese producers realized they can make the same cheese from cow's milk. The Greeks may have patented the name, but the arrogance and ignorance in the claim that it originates from Greece is beyond belief. To the guy that claims that the Bulgars and the Turks came to know this cheese via the Byzantine Greeks is partially right. The Bulgars (or pre-Bulgars) came from a region that is currently modern Mongolia. Prior to that, long before the Byzantine empire the Balkan region was also inhibited by other tribes such as the Trachs. Modern Bulgaria as it was founded in 681 was a result of the unification of the Trachs, Pre-Bulgars, and the Slavic tribes. The Trachs however are also commonly refered to as "Greeks" thanks to Homer (Oddysseus and Illiad) non the less. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.25.209.193 (talk) 18:45, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Nope. It's Greek. Historically it has been documented from Greece, and until some other ancient source says otherwise, it will remain Greek in origin. Now ... as to your wildly inaccurate statement that the BOLGARS (the origin of the "Bulgars") come from Mongolia - um, NO. The Bolgars were an offshoot of the Turkic peoples and are from central Asia and they established their home base along the Volga river. In Mongolia, all the various tribes speak Mongolic or Tungusic languages. They are not Turks. Turks originate west of Mongolia. Try taking some college-level history courses or read some factual, non-nationalist history books. HammerFilmFan (talk) 13:07, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Since you insist it is of a Greek origin, can you show one historical source predating 18th century claiming it is called Feta? Pixius talk 14:38, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

I think that by seeking the origin of feta we make the mistake to seek the origin of the very "invention" of the ...recipe, as who made it first. That is missleading as people with animals made cheese since really long time ago and it's most likely "feta" recipe was common knowledge to a cheese maker as it is to milk the animal. We are probably talking for a time when the boarders belonged to kingdoms, not countries as we know them today. So it's more proper to seek either the roots of the word itself (that this leads us to ask glossology) either the population group of an area that prefared to use that kind of mixture of milks for the cheese they made and consume, that resembled the today's feta. I don't know who will define for us the characteristics of pre-ancient's population gusto, and how acurate it might be but i am looking forward to read a work as such.

I personaly feel like feta's taste suits more to the mediteranean tastes and that if the court race were between Greece and say Italy it may not end Good for the Greek part even if Italy never shown interest to use feta for trade purposes. Just saying. User:vas180

The country of origin is ancient Turkey. It's very old preBC. Other countries always steal turkish foods. --2605:6000:3D10:8400:211A:8044:929B:34D1 (talk) 21:05, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

It's Turkish. Prehistoric. Greeks have no history with lamb anyways. Turks invented Yogurt. White cheese is the nataral evolution.--2605:6000:3D10:8400:211A:8044:929B:34D1 (talk) 21:07, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Gosh, folks, I guess if enough folks insist it's true, it must be true? Do you make these claims because they're what you've always been told or do you have documentation? Largoplazo (talk) 21:38, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Origin of the word 'feta'

(feta entry as at 27 June 2008)

The stated meaning of the word 'feta' as 'likely referring to the method of cutting the cheese in thin slices to serve on a plate' does not ring true to me. I don't think it is customary to slice cheese before eating in that part of the world, especially a crumbly cheese like feta. I think a more likely origin is that the slicing referred to is the slicing of the curd to release the whey, as suggested in www.american.edu/projects/mandala/TED/feta.htm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alistersharp (talk • contribs) 06:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Cheese in greece has it's history but it seems that many of the greek cheese types takes their name from foreign words.

A possible origin of the word "feta" is the italian "offetta" (l'offetta > la fetta) of the latin "offa" which means "a piece or a part of something edible" (slice of bread, cheese) leaving the origin and the ingridients of the cheese solely to the cheese and it's hisdtory, but saying a lot for the way it used to be served. Sources: "The great lexicon of modern Greek language - A. Georgopapadakos" & "Lexicon of modern Greek language - G. Babiniotis" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vas180 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

That article is not a reliable source. Not only is it self-published, it is full of nonsense, like brine being introduced as a preservative at the end of the 19th century. --macrakis (talk) 23:11, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Nonetheless, a citation is needed for the claim that the etymology has something to do with thin slices. It's not possible to slice feta thinly! Dricherby (talk) 19:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed that you can't cut feta into thin slices. However, the Italian fetta 'slice' etymology is widely accepted; I have included a link to the M-W dictionary. I don't have Greek dictionaries with me right now, but I believe Babiniotis and Andriotis agree. --macrakis (talk) 01:37, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

"usually sliced in small cubes or crumbled"?

The caption to the photo of Greek salad says that feta is "... usually sliced in small cubes or crumbled." I've added a {{fact}} tag to that since every Greek salad I ever ate in Greece — and I lived there fore two years — was served with a slab of feta on top, which the diners would break up to eat. I've never heard of feta being served cubed in a Greek salad in Greece. Dricherby (talk) 23:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, you're 100% correct. In fact it's quite the opposite, Feta in Greece is almost never sliced in small cubes or crumbled. I've only seen this type of preparation outside Greece. Miskin (talk) 19:00, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

What belongs in the header

We are burdening the lead paragraph with too much detail. In particular:

• Why mention the ECJ's decision in the header? Isn't it enough to say that since 2005, feta has been a European PDO?
• Why mention an (incomplete) list of places in Greece where it can be produced? Isn't it enough to say that there are certain "designated" areas and go into detail in the body of the article?

I also find the current wording rather convoluted and confusing, which is why I simplified it. Please don't just blindly revert changes -- keep those that are improvements to the text.... --Macrakis (talk) 15:32, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

• No, it is not enough. Feta did not become a PDO just like that! It is the most adventurous PDO is Europe. And the ECJ's decision is a landmark decision not only for feta but for the PDOs as a whole and their definition in particular. Only after this decision, we got a clear picture about what is feta; about where and how it should be produced — yes! yes! Don't tell it again! Only according the European law! But it is not something unimportant; European law definitions and European definitions for PDOs, in particular, gradually get a broader importance. For instance, do you know any roquefort produced in China?! Any mozzarella produced in Japan?! Any gorgonzola produced in the Philippines?! I thus insist on the reference of the decision in the lede. After all, I do not analyze it! The legal struggle on feta between Denmark and Greece before the ECJ deserves a separate section on its own. Which I intend to write (I think about extensively working on the article during the next months). So, I honestly do not understand your insistence on NOT mentioning the ECJ decision on feta in the lede, taking into consideration its importance: it is a landmark decision, and I do not exaggerate when I use this characterization. Is it against the summary character of the lead? Why, since we speak about 3-4 words?! Isn't is useful for the reader? Doesn't it make the lede more comprehensive without prolonging it?
• Do you want to say in the lede only that there are some designated areas in Greece? Ok, do it. I'll not revert you. But I'll still believe that it is better for the reader to know from the first paragraph of the article the exact definition of "feta". It is just 5-6 words more than what you suggest. Is it such a big difference? I believe not, but, if you still want to speak about "some designated areas" do it (and keep the suspense of the reader!). From my part, I'll still believe that this is not a comprehensive lede (have in mind that a lede must be short, but at the sime time it must stand on its own as a comprehensive summary article). And, in any case, the list is not incomplete. Feta can only be produced mainland Greece and Lesvos. Period!
• How can you say that I blatantly revert?! It is easy for you to compare the changes in my edits since your first revert, and to see that I incorporated the "similar cheese of cow milk called feta" nonsense, although I obviously disagree with this part of the lede. I reverted without modifying my edits only once, and only after your first "blatant" revert. Anyway, I don't see why I even bother to respond to this accusation. My history in Wikipedia and my record prove that "blatant revert" are not one of my habits.--Yannismarou (talk) 21:13, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

And, by the way, allow me to add some sources from google books about "feta". I apologize because they are not equally reliable with thic company producing "fettttta" that you mentioned when you "blatantly" (per your definition) reverted me, but it was the best I could do. How can we compare specialized books from google books with this company located ... where?! Anyway! These are some of my humble references:

• Anifantakis, Traditional Feta Cheese: "Over the last 20-25 years, new cheese markets have been established in the Middle East. Some European countries have exported to these countries last quantities of cheese [...] To these products the name Feta was given, although they could not be considered even as cheese according to the FAO/WHO standards in force during this period [...] From the facts given it is obvious that some countries, in order to secure more cheese exportations, give to their cheeses in brine the name Feta, although it is the name of a traditional cheese which originated and evolved in Greece."
• Similar conclusions in Anifantakis & Moatsou Feta and other Balkan Cheeses. See also Drosinos & Sanias, p.95.
• By a quick look in google scholar, most articles refer to the Greek "traditional feta". One article I found about the "Danish (so-called) feta" was written in 1998, namely years before the ECJ decision. This is another important parameter about the ECJ decision: When studying the relevant bibliography, we must check whether it is a pro-ECJ or after-ECJ decision source. Do the sources insist on referring to the "similar cheeses" as feta, even after the ECJ decision? For instance, White refers to "cow's milk feta", but his book was written in 2003. And is it reliable, since it is a recipee book?! Polychoniadou & Alichanidou refer to similar 'feta' cheeses, but insist that traditional feta is only the Greek one. One notices that, in most of the sources I mention, the writers are Greeks. But this is inevitable, since Greece is the country of feta, and it is normal mostly Greeks to write about it.

The inaccuracies of many sources is often proved by some simple examples: I saw references (περισπούδαστες αναλύσεις we say in Greek!) "Bulgarian feta". But this is no proof that feta is traditionally produced outside Greece, because the Bulgarians themselves do not call their white brined chees feta! And they never called it like that! They call it for decades (maybe more!) "sirene". And, if you go to a Bulgarian super-market, you'll find no Bulgarian feta! So, how can we rely on somebody who speaks about "Bulgarian feta", when it is clear that this person has no clue about the Bulgarian cheese market and cheese terminology? When I recently told to the Bulgarians "What is your problem with feta", they answered to me (not so honestly I am afraid!) that they have no problem with us about feta, because they do not produce feta!--Yannismarou (talk) 22:09, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

• It is worthmentioning that you are now suddenly interested in the "quality" of the lede, which my reference to the ECJ spoiled (a decision taught in various European law sections of universities because of its importance), but you had no problem with some useless repetitions (the previous lede which was telling us twice that feta is used in salads), or for this paragraph:

"Feta is salted and cured in a brine solution (based on water or whey) for several months. Feta dries out rapidly when removed from the brine. Feta cheese is white [really?!], usually formed into square cakes, and can range from soft to semi-hard, with a tangy, salty flavor that can range from mild to sharp. The cured cheese easily crumbles. Its fat content can range from 30 to 60 percent; most is around 45 percent milk fat. Most feta cheese has a pH of 4.4 to 4.9."

THIS is not English my friends! It is one of the worst paragraphs I've seen in a Wikipedia lede. Choppy and incoherent writing of the worst kind. And, instead of dealing with these issues, you remembered the lede only when I dared to mention the ECJ landmark decision in it. Well, I honestly don't know what to do with this paragraph! I rewrote the rest of it (placing all the "similar cheese" issues in the same paragraph and not in different and unconnected paragraphs like a puzzle, which was the case previously, and mentioning the Greek salad where salads are first mentioned), and, as you can see, the lede is now already much shorter and more coherent, but I do not know what is the solution for this badly-written paragraph.--Yannismarou (talk) 08:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I didn't intend to get into the middle of this, but I believe everyone could stand to reread WP:FAITH. VMS Mosaic (talk) 08:45, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Before reading anything, the easiest thing to do here is to present logical arguments and then judge them. I never questioned the good faith of anybody. What I question is the results of certain edits.--Yannismarou (talk) 10:11, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

FWIW, that was aimed as much at me as anyone else. I reverted you without first checking talk to see if you had taken it to the talk page per the relevant guidelines. My initial action could have caused more conflict instead of helping resolve the dispute. In other words, I failed to accept your edit in "good faith". VMS Mosaic (talk) 21:26, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

And, why not to get in the middle of this? I raised a series of issues, and I want to know what other editors believe. My belief is that what I say is logical, but I may be wrong. I want to listen to different points of view, which I think is much more useful than re-reading a guideline we have all read and we thus already know.--Yannismarou (talk) 10:22, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

• To the sources I mentioned above allow me to add Merriam-Webster, which is sited in the article, and gives a short and clear definition about feta, mentioning, in particular, that it is a Greek cheese.--Yannismarou (talk) 15:21, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
• Definition of feta from Larousse Illustre (2010) (sorry for ommitting les accents): "Fromage grec au lait de brebis a pate molle, affine en saumure."
• Oxford Dictionary: "A white salty Greek cheese made from the milk of ewes or goats."
• Le Grand Robert: "Fromage de lait de brebis, à pâte molle, fabriqué selon la recette grecque."
• Only Britannica adopts a broader approach speaking about cow milk feta.--Yannismarou (talk) 15:36, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Okay, my thoughts. The first paragraph contains too much detail, some of which belongs in the Certification section or in a following paragraph. The year 2005 conflicts with the year 2002 given in the Certification section and in the infobox. The first paragraph makes it sound like the decision has some effect on non-European countries like the US which will continue to produce and brand cheese with the name 'Feta', therefore the third sentence should end with something like "within the EU." The grammer of the second sentence needs reworked (e.g. "has been" would make sense if the first word was 'Since' instead of 'By'). VMS Mosaic (talk) 21:55, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Ok, removed the reference to the ECJ so as not to contradict the relevant section, and until I rework the aforementioned section. I don't see why we should add the "within the EU", since the sentence makes clear from its begining that the definition applies according to the European Law. After all, the second paragraph about similar cheeses called 'feta' clarifies any confusions.--Yannismarou (talk) 10:31, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

After all, the "within the EU" is inaccurate for an additional reason: some of these cheeses are exported outside the EU; they still can't use the name 'feta'.--Yannismarou (talk) 10:33, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Feta, Sirene, Telemea, Beyaz peynir - Merger Proposal

Feta, Sirene, Telemea, Beyaz peynir - all these names refer to the same kind of white, salted cheese. Moreover, the countries in which this type of white cheese is traditional are part of one and the same cultural space. Of course there are slight variations between, say, Serbian sir and Bulgarian sirene, but variations are common to planty of other east-european dishes / types of food (for instance there are slight variations between northern-romanian sarma, southern-romanian sarma, serbian sarma, macedonian sarma and greek sarma, yet I doubt tere would be Romanians, Serbs, Macedonians and Greeks to argue that the sarma one can eat in Turkey or in Lebanon isn't really sarma). Besides, the information on the "making of" of this dairy product one can find in the pages Feta, Sirene, Telemea and Beyaz peynir is more or less redundant and the differences between these articles consist mainly in stressing on some slight variations or in "it can be eaten with eggs, salads..." and so on. That's why I think we should merge Feta, Sirene, Telemea and Beyaz peynir. Burghiu (talk) 13:36, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

• Merge I agree. There is one family of cheeses, with individual variants, some of which have PDOs. If the master article gets long enough, there can be detail articles about the particular variants. --Macrakis (talk) 14:22, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

• I agree with this as well, especially in light of Greece enforcing trademark protection for the brand "feta" within the EU. They may have been aiming to limit competition, but they've also removed "feta" as a generic term that can be used on sites such as wikipedia. What we need is a new generic name. "White crumbly brine cheese" just doesn't suffice. So, if feta has been removed from consideration, what other name could be used? Either the name of one of the existing similar cheeses could be used, some combination of their names could be used, or an entirely new name could be proposed. Gregconquest (talk) 04:27, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose These are different brands of cheese, produced in different countries. There is no real reason to merge the article, considering the general practice in Wikipedia for even similar kinds of cheese to have their own article. Kostja (talk) 08:22, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Agreed that they are different 'brands'. But there needs to be a master article about the generic topic, just as there is a general cola article as well as articles on Coca-cola and Pepsi-Cola. The common material goes in the master article; material specific to each 'brand' article (if there is enough to justify a separate article). --Macrakis (talk) 16:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

• Merge I agree, but I think it is imperative that the merged article title is generic, as Gregconquest said. White brine cheese seems pretty descriptive to me... Vordhosbnbg (talk) 09:36, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose No,just because the method of preparation is somewhat close doesn't mean that are the same cheeses so such a merger could only cause confusion.

(if the merger happens,then we should consider for merging other types of cheese too,for example roquefort with stilton and blue cheese) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krem12 (talk • contribs) 14:50, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

There is in fact an article blue cheese that covers all blue cheeses. --Macrakis (talk) 16:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose As others have pointed out, blue cheese is a general article that covers different varieties like Roquefort or Stilton cheese. Each major variety has it's own individual article but the minor varieties are described within the general article. It would be consistent with Wikipedia standards to have a general article that contains the common information and separate articles for specifics about each significant variety. I don't think a merge is necessary, but a clean-up would be helpful such as culling articles that only have common information. --173.15.125.237 (talk) 18:19, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose All cheeses have a strong regional identity and group them under one section does not appear to me a good idea. Friendly Mungam (talk) 09:38, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

• Oppose If these should be merged than all hard Italian cheese should be merged too, Parmesan with Pecorino, but they're not, and this goes for all cheeses; they're all different. I agree with all the above reasons for opposing but also that these cheeses are different in common usage. If you ask for Feta in Israel and you mean Bulgarit (Sirene) cheese, you will not get Bulgarit, since they are not considered the same thing. When I first encountered Bulgarit it was explained as it's own thing and I never even thought of Feta, especially since the taste is completely different from common Feta (has the OP tasted all these cheeses?). Even if their processes and appearance, very basic qualities are similar it is too much a generalization, circumstantial, that they are the same thing, and in use these cheeses have no relationship. To merge it with Feta would be very confusing and inaccurate for someone looking for information on Sirene, ascribing qualities and a definition to the cheese that don't exist. It could also be said that this is ascribing a specifically American view of this cheese since it is labeled as "Bulgarian Feta" in my grocery store which I still find confusing. Make a list of white salted brine cheeses instead and leave it at that. As it stands the Sirene article is very clear and should remain as it is. --scazza (talk) 20:09, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
• Merge As per the points made above. Reanimated X (talk) 15:14, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose If someone wants to right a master article, then go for it, but there is enough info for specific articles for each cheese. VMS Mosaic (talk) 05:14, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose although a master article can be written. However each cheese needs to have its own article.Seleukosa (talk) 19:43, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
• Strong oppose. The fact that these cheeses have similiraties does not mean that they are the same or that they are of equal encyclopedic value. Although I respect and taste Bulgarian "sirene", its fame (and its taste IMO) cannot be compared with feta's. Therefore, merging them into the same article serves what? As scazza pointed out, merging these articles would be extremely confusing for the reader, unfair for each one of these cheeses and wrong encyclopedically. If you want to make a separate "umbrella" article about white brined cheeses in the Balkans, be my guest.--Yannismarou (talk) 08:22, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

• Very strong oppose. Telemea is a Protected designation of origin product of Romania and Feta is a Protected designation of origin product of Greece. European authorities recognize officially Telemea is not a Feta. So a fusion is a fault. Glavior (talk) 11:48, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

• Very strong oppose

this logic leads us to the replacement of all cheese articles with JUST 2! -white cheese and -yellow cheese

it doesn't make sense.

every cheese is different -even the same batch- because a lot of factors come into play. please those who endorse the merge try to taste all the aforementioned types of cheese and you will definitely change your minds. peace — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.64.38.106 (talk) 22:10, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

• Strong oppose The terms bellow refer to different types of a white cheese, that are produced differently and contain different quantity of fats. Hence, it's apparent that it's not the same cheese with different names.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:02, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

saturated fat not stated in nutrition info

that could make a big difference in health — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.176.108.8 (talk) 22:50, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Origin

Once again the issue of the origin of Feta has come up. Anyone want to comment on the suitability of changing the article to reflect Turkish origins rather than Greek? Meters (talk) 18:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

I don't see any justification for teh wholesale replacement of Greek with Turkish. The article does a good job of explaining that this is a legal term and that there are similar cheeses produced elsewhere which do not have the right to use the name "feta". We'll never know where the first feta was produced. Meters (talk) 18:43, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

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Turkish name

Please could you add the Turkish name as well because the beyaz peynir article was deleted it is also in the Turkish cuisine catagories

Please see discussion above (Turkish white cheese / beyaz peynir) where this has been discussed. Beyaz Peynir means white cheese, not specifically Feta, and if you read the second paragraph of the artricle, you will learn that this is mentioned: "However, similar white-brined cheeses (often called "white cheese" in various languages) are found in the Eastern Mediterranean and around the Black Sea". Thanks IdreamofJeanie (talk) 19:29, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Feta cheese Greece / rest of EU

"Similar brined white cheeses produced in Europe are often made partly or wholly of cow's milk, and they are also sometimes called feta."

Not true. Feta is a Greek PDO cheese, you cannot call cow's milk cheese made in e. g. Denmark "Feta cheese", it's forbidden by EU regulations. In European supermarkets, Feta is 100% from Greece and 100%-80% sheep. Never cow's milk. You can call such a cheese "Greek style cheese", "white cheese", but *not* Feta. It's like Parmigiano Reggiano, Pecorino Romano, Graviera Kritis, etc. All of them PDO cheeses.151.42.70.30 (talk) 18:03, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

What they are legally called, what the labels on them say, and what people call them in casual or uninformed conversation are three different things. You addressed the first, but the assertion is vague enough that it could mean the second or the third. In that case, whether or not the assertion is true, it isn't inconsistent with what you've said. Largoplazo (talk) 19:27, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Preservation

If appropriate references can be found, it would be helpful to add a section mentioning how long feta cheese can be kept under refrigeration before spoiling, and also whether it can be frozen and later thawed without significant loss of texture or taste. Also are there any other known methods of preservation? 72.208.150.248 (talk) 17:51, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

It's a good thought, but it might not comply with WP:NOTGUIDE, the principle that Wikipedia isn't a user or consumer guide. If a particular preservation method or an impressive durability were especially characteristic of a particular food, then it might be noteworthy, but that's separate from a set of unremarkable details. Largoplazo (talk) 19:14, 15 October 2017 (UTC)

Designation

My problem is with this phrase: "white cheeses produced in Europe are often made partly or wholly of cow's milk, and they are sometimes also called feta". They're not. No industry does this in Europe; no supermarket sells white cheese not produced in some particular regions of Greece as "feta"; etc. because this is forbidden by EU law, similarly to Parmigiano. In Europe, you cannot call a cheese "Parmesan". It is either Parmigiano or "yellow hard cheese". Either "feta" or "brined white cheese". I know it is difficult to understand for users of North American origin (or generally outside of Europe), but this is how it is in the EU. Some goes for many other agricultural products. Nobody in Europe calls fake Parmigiano "Parmesan", no supermarket sells fake Parmigiano as "Parmesan", nobody can produce some hard cheese and call it "Parmesan".151.42.104.52 (talk) 19:36, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

If I point to a cheese and say, "Oh, I need some feta", and pick it up and put it in my basket, and it's a white brined cheese that can't be legally called "feta" for trade purposes, that doesn't alter the fact that I have just called it "feta". And I bet you that people casually call those cheese feta all the time. What people call something and what people can legally call it for trade purposes are two related but not identical things. Largoplazo (talk) 19:43, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

I tend to agree that what something is "called" vs what it is legally designated are two different things. The article is clear about the controlled designation. I have simply remnoved the "In Europe" from the lead. It is certainly true that some feta-style cheeses made outside of Europe are legally called "feta". I have some in my fridge. Meters (talk) 19:48, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

"It is certainly true that some feta-style cheeses made outside of Europe are legally called "feta"", yes, but certainly not legal in Europe. Same goes for Parmigiano (Parmesan), for instance. And no, actually not a lot of people here refer to Feta imitations (or, again, Parmesan imitations) as "feta". Anyway, my 2 proofs (and sources, after all, since Wikipedia is all about sources, you know this better than me since you're experienced users!) are (1) law and (2) what each package says (feta, white cheese, etc.). What some people could, casually, call "feta" is not of any importance here, since it cannot be sourced in any way (and, thus, challenged and removed).151.42.104.52 (talk) 19:58, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

And, as I clearly stated above, I removed the "In Europe" from that line, so there should no longer any problem with what we state in the lead. The talkpage is WP:NOTAFORUM. Parmesan is irrelevant to this page. If you have any other suggestions please make them, otherwise we're done. Meters (talk) 20:09, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

You seem determined to keep repeating the nature of the legal status of the word "feta" without regard to the facts that (a) Meters and I already understand and acknowledge it; (b) you haven't said anything I didn't already know before this discussion; and (c) the current text in the article is completely consistent with what you are telling us and, in the second paragraph, it says the same thing. Largoplazo (talk) 20:42, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

According to EU law Feta is a Protected Designation of Origin Cheese thus only in certain regions if allowed its production

According to EU law Directives, Feta Cheese is only made in specific geographical regions in Greece therefore in the article must be specified the regions i Greece that produce FETA cheese, otherwise it is false to mention the whole country. I am restoring the previous edition I did in the article.Tidewings (talk) 13:39, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

The second paragraph of the lead makes it clear that "cheeses produced in a traditional way in particular areas of Greece" (My emphasis) and that is sufficient for the lead.IdreamofJeanie (talk) 14:01, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

It is insufficient since all products of FETA cheese must declare their origin on the product. Hence when it is said in particular areas of Greece and the reader does not know where from he/she may be tricked into buying a product that its is not FETA. You said it is ungrammatical you either made an unwilling mistake or on purpose. The edit must remain the same I did.

Saying that it's made in Greece is not false - it is perhaps not a complete description, but it is simple and concise, which is what we want from the first sentence of the lead. We don't need to list all the specific regions where it can be produced at this point - particularly not in the way did, by adding a long list of the regions in the middle of a sentence. Why not write a new sentence in the section on 'certification', where the issue of the EU directives is already discussed? GirthSummit _(blether) 14:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Saying in Greece it is untrue. Furthermore from my years in the University I know first hand that students tend to visit wikipedia for anything before reading any scientific origin text. Therefore it is very important to get from the first paragraph that this type of cheese is a Protected Designation of Origin cheese and is not produced everywhere in Greece. In addition because of the dispute of the FYRoM (United nations name) or Republic of Macedonia (constitutional name) the reader must also understand the difference and not buy a product from another country. You still have not unswered my question, where is the ungrammatical part?Tidewings (talk) 14:09, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Then, as Girth Summit has suggested above, add a sentance to the body of the article to point out the geographical limits. The lead is supposed to be a summary of the article, not a detailed description. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 14:16, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

OK - on the grammar, you used a colon to introduce your list - but your list was inserted into an existing sentence, which then just carried on as if the list hadn't been there. If you're introducing a list with a colon, you would normally terminate the sentence at the end of the list, and start a new one.

On the point of fact, I repeat that it is not untrue to say it is made in Greece. You are, I think, arguing that it is not sufficient, which is fair enough, but you cannot say that it is untrue. I agree with IdreamofJeanie that a full list of the regions where it is made is probably excessive for the lead, and I repeat my suggestion that you write a new sentence for the body of the article, where the EU regulation stuff is already mentioned. It definitely doesn't need to go in the first sentence of the lead, which is supposed to be a concise description. GirthSummit _(blether) 14:17, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

And why should we follow his opinion over mine. The edition I did is accurate and leads the reader directly to understand the difference. No extra section is needed. Furthermore, Girth has failed to answer me where is the gramatical error.Tidewings (talk) 14:20, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

The lead is a summary, not a full list of everything in the article. I agree with the others the lead should be the shorter version.VViking_TalkEdits 14:20, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

OK. Agreed. However, how do we distinguish Macedonia in Greece over the neighboring country because it axists on the list?

Please read WP:BRD "Discuss the contribution, and the reasons for the contribution, on the article's talk page with the person who reverted your contribution. Don't restore your changes or engage in back-and-forth reverting." You have made 3 reverts, do not do so again. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 14:24, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Guys I will add a subsection with the regions but how we distinguish the region of Macedonia over FYRoM (UN) or Rep. of Macedonia (constitutional).Tidewings (talk) 14:26, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Frankly a polital naming dispute is bugger all to do with cheese. IdreamofJeanie (talk) 14:27, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

May I do two propositions? first I write the United nations name in the final list, or two we write the English Version UNITED NATIONS name and in Slavic version its constitutonal name?Tidewings (talk) 14:31, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

You will want to find reliable sources and include the the naming dispute in your edit. You may wish to write the section in your own sandbox and then ask others here to have a look at it before you add it to the article. And thank you for starting to use the talk page.VViking_TalkEdits 14:32, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Its a whole of a deal to do all the things you describe I can leave their name as it is and next to it write that there is adispute over the name and they do not produce FETa?Tidewings (talk) 14:34, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Guys I would like know your opinion on what I have asked. I want to make the edition because the common reader will get the wrong impression that that country produces FETA if left as it is, so I would like to see a consensus on that first?Tidewings (talk) 14:58, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Will this source suffice? https://www.thenationalherald.com/28905/skopje-not-macedonia-but-feta-is-greek/. Tidewings (talk) 15:09, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

You asked in your last edit summary for an answer to your question - I think you mean where you are asking about how to differentiate between the Greek region called Macedonia, and the FYRoM? If I'm honest, I don't think that we need to differentiate any further - the text as it stands says that it can only be made in certain regions of Greece, and then lists Macedonia as one of those regions. That seems pretty unambiguous there - were referring to the Greek region, not the FYRoM. Have I missed something? GirthSummit _(blether) 15:34, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

OKTidewings (talk) 16:50, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

I agree that we don't need to specify the particular regions in the lead.

I also think the lead overstates the whole "feta is only made in Greece" issue. It's simply a marketing agreement. The EU does not allow other cheeses to be called feta in the EU, and there are agreements with some non-EU places not to use the name feta. That's fine, and we need to, and do, cover this, but the EU isn't the whole world and I don't think that Wikipedia should be claiming that feta is only made in Greece simply because it is a protected designation of origin product in the EU. An identical cheese made with the same type of milk elsewhere is still feta, regardless of whether the EU calls it feta.Meters (talk) 20:25, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

Health Issues vs Benefits

@Macrakis:The section is called Health Benefits because it outlines nutritional benefits of the cheese, standard for food articles. The section was renamed Health Issues with additional content (possibly to fit an agenda), but the Health Benefits were kept in place. Please create a separate section if you feel this new information is encyclopedic. Apologies for lack of explanation on the previous edit. Kstern (talk) 21:37, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Calling the section on nutrition "health benefits" seems promotional and not neutral in tone, especially since one of the things the section points out is the very high salt/sodium density per calorie, which is not a benefit at all. The section as written also seemed to claim that feta (and other traditional Greek dairy products) are better than other dairy products and other cheeses, when in fact as far as I can tell it has very typical nutritional profile for a cheese, with a higher proportion of CLA because it is made of ewe's milk. Not to mention that the list of probiotics is not sourced. It would be nice, too, if the other nutritional information came from a scientific or governmental site rather than Self, a health and beauty lifestyle magazine.

A more neutral title would probably be simply "Nutrition", as in the Broccoli#Nutrition. --Macrakis (talk) 22:00, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Puffery

Article currently reads "Feta is lower in fat and calories than aged cheeses like Parmigiano-Reggiano or Cheddar weight-for-weight because it has higher water content." A couple of problems with this. What is the point of this comparison? Of course it will be lower in calories and fat weight-for-weight since it is soaked in brine. But it is actually higher in fat per calorie than those cheeses, which is a more interesting statistic. Another problem: there is no standard for cheddar.... --Macrakis (talk) 17:08, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

History

The sources actually do discuss feta specifically and in the wider historical context of Greek cheese production. The European Commission, for example, accurately mentions a "primitive form of feta" in ancient Greece. 173.70.55.60 (talk) 18:07, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

The article on the EU site is obviously promotional ("a cheese with a history as rich as its taste") and not sourced to serious literature. Where did they get "A primitive form of feta is even mentioned in the Odyssey, where the hero Odysseus takes the cheese made by the cyclops Polyphemus whilst escaping from his cave", for example? All the text says is that he curdled the milk and drained it in wicker, which describes the production of all cheese. What's more, since the cheese is stored in wicker racks (ταρσοὶ μὲν τυρῶν βρῖθον) and not barrels, it's clearly not feta, primitive or not. --Macrakis (talk) 18:44, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

The websource is straight from the European Commission on the subject of feta's PDO that includes a summary of feta's history (so dismissing it as "promotional" is neither convincing nor constructive when the Wikipedia entry on feta covers the whole PDO issue in detail). Also, "they" (i.e., members of the European Commission) got their information about feta from the same historical source that scholars have used in their studies of Greek cheese production that includes, and is germane to, feta production. As for the Greek word ταρσοὶ, it means "frame of wicker-work", "crate" or "flat basket" and not strictly "wicker racks" (see Liddell and Scott's A Greek-English Lexicon). But even if wicker racks were exclusively used does not change the historical reality that traditional feta was, and still is, made with the same ingredients/processes as other Greek cheeses, a fact that Anna Polychroniadou-Alichanidou correctly mentions. So neither you nor I can say what is or is not "primitive feta" meaning that if reliable sources say that the cheese in Homer's Odyssey is a precursor of feta or is made with the same ingredients/processes as feta, then that's what we go by. Lastly, your reading of the Odyssey neglects to mention the fact that Polyphemus "sat down and milked the ewes and bleating goats" and then "curdled half the white milk, and gathered it in wicker baskets and laid it away, and the other half he set in vessels that he might have it to take and drink, and that it might serve him for supper" (ἑζόμενος δ᾽ ἤμελγεν ὄις καὶ μηκάδας αἶγας, πάντα κατὰ μοῖραν, καὶ ὑπ᾽ ἔμβρυον ἧκεν ἑκάστῃ. αὐτίκα δ᾽ ἥμισυ μὲν θρέψας λευκοῖο γάλακτος πλεκτοῖς ἐν ταλάροισιν ἀμησάμενος κατέθηκεν, ἥμισυ δ᾽ αὖτ᾽ ἔστησεν ἐν ἄγγεσιν, ὄφρα οἱ εἴη πίνειν αἰνυμένῳ καί οἱ ποτιδόρπιον εἴη). The curdled white milk derived from ewes and goats placed in vessels is what feta is (or is based on), primitive or otherwise. At the end of the day, the Wikipedia entry is not helped by any downplaying of feta's historical context involving Greek cheese production since feta was not created in a vacuum. 173.70.55.60 (talk) 20:25, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Polychroniadou-Alichanidou is a scientific study, and gives zero sources related to history.

So scientific studies about feta and feta production are verboten? No dice. Also, the author does provide historical evidence if you actually read her work. And dismissing the reliability of Polychroniadou-Alichanidou's research on the grounds that it is a "scientific study" makes no sense since the Wikipedia entry on feta cites and uses reliable sources including scientific studies. 173.70.55.60 (talk) 21:42, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Polychroniadou-Alichanidou's paper is about the manufacture, composition, microbiology, and biochemistry of feta, well-supported with 51 footnotes to the literature. The business about Homer etc. is in the introduction, and there are no sources given for it. A source that is reliable for the manufacture and biochemistry of cheese is not necessarily reliable for history. --Macrakis (talk) 22:01, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Even if that is true, her work is reliable even with respect to the history of feta despite not dedicating her entire work strictly to the cheese's socio-cultural and historical development. 173.70.55.60 (talk) 22:22, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

I have rewritten the section with better sources -- Dalby and Kindstedt.

Your sources are not necessarily better, but they are used to reflect your particular anti-scientific POV. 173.70.55.60 (talk) 21:42, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

"Anti-scientific"?! What do you mean by that? --Macrakis (talk) 22:01, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

It's in reference to your consistent deletion of the reliable Polychroniadou-Alichanidou source ([1], [2]). 173.70.55.60 (talk) 22:22, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

See WP:CONTEXTMATTERS. P-A is a food scientist, and the article is no doubt a reliable source for the science of feta cheese. I don't know if she has also worked on food history issues, but as I said above, this article is not about history, and doesn't provide any sources for what it says about history. --Macrakis (talk) 22:48, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Homer clearly talks about making cheese from ewes and goat's milk, but says nothing about brining, which is what is characteristic of feta. --Macrakis (talk) 20:45, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

So the absence of brining is the absence of feta? If that were true and if brining were the only thing defining feta as a cheese, then everything in the Wikipedia entry except for salty water would be removed. 173.70.55.60 (talk) 21:42, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Of course brining is not the only thing defining feta. But not all cheeses made in Greece of sheep and/or goat milk are feta, and P-A makes this clear in her definition: "Feta cheese is a white, semihard cheese made from sheep's milk (or mixtures of sheep's and goat's milk), which is ripened and stored in brine." and she proceeds to put it in the category of "pickled cheeses". So it is quite clear that this is a necessary part of the definition. --Macrakis (talk) 22:01, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Then the brining is an additive that does not change the substance of the "white, semihard cheese" made from curdled goat's/sheep's milk. So Greek cheese production constitutes the immediate (and relevant) historical context that serves as the basis of feta and should not be watered down or downplayed with facts about Canaanite cheese production (not that Canaanite cheese production isn't interesting on its own). 173.70.55.60 (talk) 22:22, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Is Penicillium roqueforti also just "an additive that does not change the substance" of the well-known cheese made of curdled sheep's milk in southern France? Would feta be feta if it were not brined?

Canaanite cheese is directly relevant because we have a RS which mentions the possibility of specifically a brined white cheese being produced in the eastern Mediterranean.

The EU PDO page is transparently promotional, doesn't cite its sources, and gives no indication of being reliable for word history. The Oxford Companion to Cheese is only a little better, but at least it is non-promotional. It would be good to find a better source. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a historical dictionary of modern Greek yet. --Macrakis (talk) 22:48, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Macrakis, except about the definition of the EU PDO page, which I would rather define hagiographic. But the result is the same. Alex2006 (talk) 09:53, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

USA usage

The way the EU regional cheese thing work hurts my head as an American. In America feta is a generic term for a greek kind of cheese usually not made in Greece. I think the idea that a cheese maker can step over the border and have their cheese stop being feta go not work with American cheese understanding, so there’s a real disconnect. This article obviously isn’t about how “feta” is used in English but about how the term is used in Europe, which excludes the majority of feta eating English speakers. 97.113.57.76 (talk) 09:09, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

You know, things arent that simple- "I dont care" doesnt mean "It doesnt matter". This article is about feta. Feta is from Europe. Some fetas from the Americas may have in reality no connection to the original cheese, so let's not simplify this article just because it looks irrelevant from your pov. How would you like to cut short an article about a random town in the US just because nobody else cares about it? Thank you and I hope you will break your bubble-just because it isnt in America doesnt mean its less important 🧚🧚😍😍😘😘 2A02:2F0C:5703:1700:B905:3FF7:F308:8FFF (talk) 19:23, 23 November 2023 (UTC)