Talk:Elon Musk/Archive 21

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Archive 21

Lack of Citation

There isn’t a single citation starting with the paragraphs directly below his signature extending to the early life section. There are several statements that could use citation. WhowinsIwins (talk) 09:11, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Citations are generally avoided in the lead (see WP:LEADCITE), as the lead should summarise the rest of the article. Anything that's in the lead should be cited later on in the article. — Czello ^(music) 09:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Ideally, the lede is meant to summarise the key points of the content of the article, and the infobox also adheres to the mandate. BarntToust 19:27, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

NPOV Bedrohung der Demokratie und Oligarchie sollte eine größere Gewichtung bekommen

in der aktuellen Version des Artikels bekommt die Beobachtung, dass Elon Musk in seiner Kommunikation memes verwendet eine größere Aufmerksamkeit und priorisierung in der Gliederung des Artikels als die Beobachtung beispielsweise eines Wirtschaftsnobelpreisträgers, dass man ihn als Oligarch und betrogen für die Demokratie sehen kann. ich denke das ist eine unausgewogene Sache und sollte entsprechend mit dem entsprechenden Baustein zu Beginn des Artikels dokumentiert werden, was denkt ihr? Aberlin2 (talk) 16:24, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

uah sorry, I was accidentally in the wrong language version. this comment was meant for the German Wikipedia Aberlin2 (talk) 16:26, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

How to appropropratly document the perception of Musk as an oligarch in this article ?

I Think I already brought up the topic once before, but I feel due to current events, the Topic needs an update anyway. Maybe my Question could become part of the FAQ, since I guess I might not be the Only one considering Musk as an Oligarch. And their are a lot of International News Article where Musk is considered an Oligarch so why not document this perception in this article? Aberlin2 (talk) 21:16, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

That seems like it would make an appropriate addition to the section Elon Musk#Public perception. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:05, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

I removed this from the lead because it wasn't in the body and is pretty serious to level in a BLP. It is not a significant accusation besides a few opinion pieces, so it doesn't even belong in this article. What could be added is mentions of his outsize influence in politics, however that's already mentioned in the final paragraph of the lead. Bill Williams 00:51, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

He seems to meet the Oxford Language Dictionary definition based on recent events ("very rich business leader with a great deal of political influence"), but agreed this is not referenced/corroborated enough with satisfactory sources to be beyond a mention in the Elon Musk#Public perception section Nicnote^{say hello!}_contribs 01:17, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

@Nicnote I think it should mean something for his representation in the article that he is an Oligarch based on the definition.

otherwise the article is not meeting the criteria of neutrality because it would hide this aspect Aberlin2 (talk) 16:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Bill Williams that referring Musk as Oligarch in the Lead, would likely be a violation of WP:BLP, due to the negative connotations associted with Oligarchs. Also, most current WP:RS sources do not refer to Musk as an Oligarch, so it would likely violate WP:RS and WP:DUE too. Thanks RogerYg (talk) 09:28, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I think I should only be mentioned in the article body with relevant context using NPOV language after achieving WP:Consensus, due to its contentious nature in a BLP article. RogerYg (talk) 09:33, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Born in South Africa

On the page about Karl Marx, it says "Karl Marx (German: [kaʁl ˈmaʁks]; 5 May 1818 – 14 March 1883) was a German-born". In the first paragraph of this article, I think it should say "Elon Reeve Musk FRS (/ˈiːlɒn/; born June 28, 1971) is a South African-born businessman known for his." Just because he's a citizen of USA and UK doesn't mean you need to remove the fact he's South Africa guy. Why isn't his birth mentioned in the first paragraph. It could also say "South African-born American" or simply "South African-born." DisneyGuy744 (talk) 23:37, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

See the FAQ at the top. QRep2020 (talk) 06:59, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

As previosly discussed, per MOS:BLPLEAD , current citizenship "American" should get priority.

Previous consensus is not to include South-African born in the first sentence, but mention it later in the lead. Thanks. RogerYg (talk) RogerYg (talk) 01:18, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

ok DisneyGuy744 (talk) 21:59, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Somehow, the article short desciption still says South African born businessman, which should be changed to something more appropriate per previous discussions. RogerYg (talk) 09:35, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

THat is not the lead. Slatersteven (talk) 11:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC)