Talk:Dov Seidman/Archive 1

Archive 1

Suggestions

I would like to suggest several changes that I think would improve the article. Since I have a WP:COI, I am posting my suggestions on the Talk page for others to review and edit. I have tried to adhere to all Wikipedia policies on neutrality WP:NPOV, non-promotional material, reliable sourcing, etc. and if I haven’t managed that below, I’d very much like to discuss your ideas for addressing any potential issues. In general, I believe these changes improve the page because they provide more context around the subject therefore making the entry better for the reader. These changes also provide a corrections to factual mistakes which is integral to the success of the Wikipedia project.

1.- I suggest adding the following to the last sentence of the section ‘Early Life’ to give more context around Seidman’s dyslexia:

Seidman’s dyslexia is the subject of a case study in the book The Dyslexic Advantage

Sfreidlin (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin

2. I recommend adding the following to the LRN section of the page to provide more context around Seidman’s direction of the company’s activities: Seidman testified before the U.S. Sentencing Commission about the need for companies to develop ethical cultures instead of ‘check-the-box’, compliance-only approaches, and his testimony helped shaped the amendments to the Federal Sentencing Guidelines

LRN has a flat reporting structure which emphasizes "collaborative management." A New York Times column described the company as moving toward self-governance with staff reporting to the company mission instead of having formal titles. Lastly, given that the source is more than a decade old I believe the article should omit the last sentence in this section. As a privately held company LRN does not disclose it's revenue, so it might be confusing to the reader.

Sfreidlin (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin

3. I suggest the following changes to the first paragraph of the "Best-Selling Author" section to provide more context around the influence of Dov and his book:

Seidman wrote a book entitled: How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything... in Business (and in Life), published in September 2007. In 2011, How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything an expanded edition was published. The expanded edition contains a foreword written by former United States President Bill Clinton. Divided into four parts, it covers the topics such as how trust and reputation are critical to prospering in business and how modifying ones actions and decisions can make the road to success easier to navigate. The second edition of his book became a New York Times Best Seller.

Sfreidlin (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin

4. I suggest adding a section called “Awards and Honors” above “Personal Life” to include the following: Seidman gave the commencement address at UCLA college of Letters and Science in 2002. He was given the Jurisprudence Award by the Anti-Defamation League in 2003. In 2008, the Economic Times named Seidman one of the Top 60 Global Thinkers of the Last Decade. Since 2008, Seidman and LRN have been the corporate partner of The Elie Wiesel Foundation for Humanity’s Prize in Ethics Essay Contest, an annual competition for students to analyze ethical issues.

In 2009, Seidman was awarded an honorary degree of Doctor of Human Letters by the Hebrew Union College – Jewish Institute of Religion Seidman was a keynote address speaker the United Nations Global Compact in 2015.

Sfreidlin (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin

5. I suggest creating a new subtopic under the “Best-Selling Author” section called ‘Columnist’ and including the following:

Seidman is a columnist for DealBook in the New York Times; the digital Wall Street Journal, Forbes, and The Huffington Post.

Sfreidlin (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin

6. I suggest changes to the ‘Legal Battle’ subtopic under the section 'Best-Selling author'. This is a correction that I believe would provide further context around Seidman's book and make the meaning of the paragraph easier to follow. I suggest modifying the second sentence of the first paragraph to read:

The first sentence of his book is: “this is a HOW book, not a how-to book,” and Seidman uses the tag line “how matters” when providing his insight into success in business

Sfreidlin (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin

7. I suggest a change to the third paragraph of the ‘Legal Battle’ subtopic under the ‘Best-selling author’ without this context, the lawsuit can’t be fully understood:

In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, New York City based Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word ‘how’. In relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere.

Sfreidlin (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin

9. I propose adding a section titled External “Links” to the bottom and linking the following sites to help readers better understand the article LRN

HOW is the Answer The HOW Column - Forbes

Sfreidlin (talk) 20:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)sfreidlin

References

I have a conflict of interest here as a paid consultant to LRN, but since the changes above have been reviewed by an impartial editor with instructions to make the changes, I'm going to implement them. The editor who originally made the suggestions is no longer active.BC1278 (talk) 19:52, 8 December 2015 (UTC)BC1278

Proposed Edit

Moved edit request by User:BC1278 to the article's talk page. VB00 (talk) 16:40, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

As requested, I am going to seek out editors engaged in the subject area of business, ethics, biographies, etc to review these proposed changes. I am a paid consultant to LRN and will therefore not make direct edits to the article.Pivelle56 (talk) 21:50, 20 February 2018 (UTC)Pivelle56

Hi,

I have a number of improvements, updates and corrections recommended for this article, which I'd like to try to bring up from its current stub class to a C or even B. Given the range of sourcing (academic, books, journalism) and diversity of the bio across business, philosophy and law, an improved article should be an achievable goal.

I am a frequent Wikipedia editor but I have a paid consulting relationship with the subject of this article, so I wish to fully comply with WP: COI requiring this disclosure and independent review and approval of all suggested edits. FYI, this article was created by an editor unrelated to Seidman, who read about him in a front page article on the New York Times. He contacted Seidman to ask for a photo to accompany the article.

I am listing the suggestions below, individually, which I think make progress toward more encyclopedic use of language and accuracy. Since the suggestions are extensive, I also created an update draft for the article at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BC1278/DovSeidman#LRN

Proposed edit

Lead -add "and the author of How" to the lead. This is probably why he's best known and there's now a Wikipedia article about "How" to link to. Education -delete "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV. Career -change wording of first sentence so it does not state all these jobs occurred after law school, which the source does not say (and isn't true. Some were during law school). Seidman's career included stints at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, Steptoe & Johnson, Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. -moved the sentence about the RAND corp. directorship from here to "Awards and Honors" section. It's out of sequence here by decades. LRN I'd like to suggest adding some additional statements from major articles about Seidman. He was able to pre-sell a $500,000 contract to MCI based on the idea. He raised $2 million from 42 investors to launch the company. American Lawyer magazine wrote about Seidman in a feature story called "Should You be Afraid of This Man?" because of concerns in the legal industry that LRN would undercut law firms by charging substantially less. Suggest including the following sentence because it shows the evolution of Seidman's thinking over the next 20 years, the related evolution of LRN, and because it was the subject of an article in a major business periodical: "Seidman eventually shifted the company direction toward ethics and regulatory compliance, as well as corporate culture, governance and leadership. His position, explained in the journal Strategy + Business, is that the most sustainable businesses are also the most moral, through “sustainable values” rather than “situational values”. Suggest re-orienting the language in the following sentence toward Seidman himself, as per the source (a column in the NY Times by Seidman): Seidman created a flat reporting structure at LRN which emphasizes "collaborative management." A New York Times column he wrote described his goal of having the company move toward self-governance with staff reporting to the company mission instead of having a formal reporting structure, with titles. Best selling author Suggest adding this sentence which encapsulates the subject matter of the book: ...former United States President Bill Clinton. "How" is a philosophical framework for the changing role of behavior, governance, culture and leadership in contemporary society..." Columnist Suggest adding summary of article from Harvard Business Review: "In an article in the the Harvard Business Review, Seidman says that while the world previously transitioned from an "industrial economy" to a "knowledge economy", it is now moving to a "human economy". Workers will no longer have an advantage over increasingly intelligent machines, but will be valued for "essential traits can't and won’t be programmed into software, like creativity, passion, character, and collaborative spirit—their humanity, in other words."" Legal battle This section can be tightened up and also need a very important clarification. The first sentence strikes me as having a NPOV problem, as "catchy phrase" is an characterization that seems to somewhat trivialize the "How" concepts. In any case, the sentence doesn't add any information and I think it can safely be cut. "Through writing his book and developing talking points for his lectures, Seidman has distilled his perspective with a catchy phrase." If this sentence is deleted, the beginning of the next sentence should be corrected as follows, for clarity: "The first sentence of Seidman's book is: “This is a HOW book, not a how-to book,"... Suggest cutting... "founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant" as off topic and superfluous. Most importantly, please add this sentence, immediately following "how it is made makes all the difference in the world" to clarify what the dispute is about. Support for the sentence is in the same source: "Seidman said that Chobani used ‘how’ to connote that they are an ethical company, appropriating the foundation of his philosophy." Awards and honors Suggest adding keynote address before the NFL Owners Seidman was selected as the keynote speaker before the NFL owners in 2014, advocating that the NFL create a culture of high expectations, where tolerance and respect are the norm. Suggest adding address at Fortune Time Conference in Vatican City attended by the Pope: Seidman addressed the Fortune-Time Global Forum at Vatican City about the moral imperative of global leadership. --

References

Request changes

I have a WP: COI as a paid consultant to LRN.

Could you consider the following changes:

1) Legal Battle section. Last paragraph refers to Seidman as Dov. Wikipedia style is to not refer to subjects by their first name.

2) Lead. Suggest adding to the second sentence: "and the author of, How (book)." This is why he's best known. There is a separate article about the book that explains its significance; hyper-link herein.

3) Education section. In sentence four, suggest deleting "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV.

BC1278 (talk) 16:15, 21 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278

Reply quote box with inserted reviewer decisions and feedback 21-MAY-2018

Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request. Also note areas where additional clarification was requested. When this is ready to be provided to the reviewer, please change the edit request template to read from ans=yes to ans=no. Thank you! .spintendo  18:21, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Legal Battle section. Last paragraph refers to Seidman as Dov. Wikipedia style is to not refer to subjects by their first name.
 Approved.

___________
Lead. Suggest adding to the second sentence: "and the author of, How (book). This is why he's best known. There is a separate article about the book that explains its significance; hyper-link herein.
 Approved.

___________
Education section. In sentence four, suggest deleting "mere" to characterize "970", his score on the SATs. "Mere" isn't NPOV.
 Approved.

___________

3. I just checked the source and the reference for the SAT score is the same as the source at end of the paragraph, which has no intervening citations.

4. Here are a few reliable sources that show Seidman is known as the author of How. I could provide many others. ("The author, Dov Seidman, is in the business of helping companies create more ethical cultures. He has distilled that business to a single three-letter word: how. President Bill Clinton wrote the foreword to his book, “How: Why How We Do Anything Means Everything.” (“This is a HOW book, not a how-to book,” it begins.)"), ("Dov Seidman, the author of the book “How” whose company LRN advises C.E.O.’s on leadership, has long argued that “nothing inspires people more than the truth.”), ("In past years, the keynote address for the NFL meetings has been delivered by Bill Clinton and Condeleezza Rice. This year, Goodell chose Dov Seidman, author of How: Why HOW We Do Anything Means Everything.")

References

Reply

 Done .spintendo  22:13, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Proposed changes

I have a WP:COI as a paid consultant to Dov Seidman.

I am working on researching the missing citations. I didn't create this article.

1) Career Section.

Replacement text: "Seidman's early career included stints at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, Steptoe & Johnson, Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees."

Rationale: The first two sentences don't reflect what the sources says. The source only says Seidman's legal experience includes work at various law firms. It does not specify these were after law school. (In fact, I know from asking the subject that most occurred during law school, though that's not sourced, so can't be included.)

2) Career Section:

Text to remove: "Seidman was a member of the RAND Institute for Civil Justice Board of Overseers." This is a non-profit board, not part of his career.

3) Text to Add: In Section "LRN", new paragraph three:

"Seidman eventually shifted the company direction toward ethics and regulatory compliance, as well as education and consulting in corporate culture, corporate governance and leadership. He positioned LRN to reflect the argument in his book, How (book), that the most sustainable businesses are also the most moral.

Rationale: Right now, the LRN section doesn't reflect what he's been doing with his career at LRN the past 15 years.

4) Text to add in "LRN" sub-section

In the wake of ethical issues affecting theNFL, Seidman was hired by the NFL commissioner to speak to its owners and head coaches in 2014, advocating that the NFL should create a culture where tolerance and respect were normal expectation.

Seidman was also invited to Vatican City to speak about the moral imperative of global leadership.

5) Text to remove: Legal Battle section. The follow text is unsourced but also not needed to understand the legal battle. It strays from the case and the BLP.

Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world.[citation needed]

6) Text to remove:

"...adding that the company was no longer working with Droga5."

Rationale: Seem extraneous to a BLP or the lawsuit.

7) Text to add: Legal battle section:

In March 2016, Seidman filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. According to the complaint, WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5, in 2013, and later actively encouraged Droga5 to use Seidman's trademarked intellectual property.

Rationale: without the second lawsuit explained, the settlement in the WME doesn't make sense. That said, I am searching for the citation needed that this lawsuit was indeed settled. The source for the next sentence does not mention WME being settled, but links to a press release that discusses the settlement. I don't think that's good enough but we could add it for now. I am working on finding a non-primary source.

Many thanks!

BC1278 (talk) 23:17, 27 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278

References

Reply quote box with inserted reviewer decisions and feedback 27-MAY-2018

Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request. Also note areas where additional clarification was requested and/or changes were required before implementation could occur. When this is ready to be provided to the reviewer, kindly open a new edit request. Thank you! .spintendo  04:42, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Seidman's early career included stints at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, Steptoe & Johnson, Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
 Unable to implement.

___________
Seidman was a member of the RAND Institute for Civil Justice Board of Overseers.
 Approved.

___________
Seidman eventually shifted the company direction toward ethics and regulatory compliance, as well as education and consulting in corporate culture, corporate governance and leadership.
 Unable to implement.

___________
He positioned LRN to reflect the argument in his book, How (book), that the most sustainable businesses are also the most moral.
 Not approved.

___________
In the wake of ethical issues affecting theNFL, Seidman was hired by the NFL commissioner to speak to its owners and head coaches in 2014, advocating that the NFL should create a culture where tolerance and respect were normal expectation.
 Approved.

___________
Seidman was also invited to Vatican City to speak about the moral imperative of global leadership.
 Unable to implement.

___________
Text to remove: Legal Battle section. The follow text is unsourced but also not needed to understand the legal battle. It strays from the case and the BLP. Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world.[citation needed]
? Clarification needed.

___________
Text to remove: "...adding that the company was no longer working with Droga5." Rationale: Seem extraneous to a BLP or the lawsuit.
 Approved.

___________
Text to add: Legal battle section: In March 2016, Seidman filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. According to the complaint, WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5, in 2013, and later actively encouraged Droga5 to use Seidman's trademarked intellectual property.
 Not approved.

___________

Reply

@Spintendo:

Thanks again for helping on this. Here is some of the missing info and clarifications requested by you.

1. In Careers, this is the exact quote from the Bloomberg source:

"Mr. Seidman's legal experience includes work at O'Melveny & Myers, Arnold & Porter, and Steptoe & Johnson, as well as for the Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees."

The editor who wrote this must have presumed incorrectly that legal experience can only be gained after law school, rather than also including summer associate jobs during law school, plus other externships during school.

Proposed delete:

"Upon graduating law school in 1992, Seidman first went to work at the Washington, D.C office of O'Melveny & Myers. He then spent time at different firms, including Arnold & Porter and Steptoe & Johnson. He also served in the Office of the Legal Adviser at the U.S. State Department and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees."

I found another source for pre-LRN that simplifies the matter, allowing us to delete the entire list of short-term jobs. The source makes clear the sequence of the one job after law school, followed by the founding of LRN. Proposed new text:

"After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to raise money for a company that would become LRN. "

2. Proposed new text in LRN: "Seidman eventually shifted the company direction toward ethics and regulatory compliance, as well as education and consulting in corporate culture, corporate governance and leadership."

Note: I could not find an online copy of the Fortune story, from 2002, cited above. But I have a PDF of it and I think it would be available in a commercial periodical database. I could also email it or paste in the full text here. I added a tier-two source that covers the same ground and it is online. I've placed it as s second citation.

3. Text to insert.

"Seidman spoke about the moral imperative of global leadership at a Fortune Magazine conference for 100 CEOs held in Vatican City.

Note: I replaced the video citation with an article citation.

4. Proposed text to delete: Legal battle section.

Chobani, the yogurt company founded in 2005 by a Turkish immigrant began an ad campaign in 2014 centered on the phrase "how matters," emphasizing that there are many types and brands of yogurt but that how it is made makes all the difference in the world.

In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, New York City based Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere. Both Chobani and Droga5 rebuffed the suit by claiming they had never even heard of Seidman and that the terms in question are too broad to reasonably consider as trademarked.

Proposed replacement text to add:

In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, Droga5, for allegedly violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere after Chobani ran a 2014 advertising campaign around the theme ""How Matters." Both Chobani and Droga5 rebuffed the suit by claiming they had never even heard of Seidman and that the terms in question are too broad to reasonably consider as trademarked.

5. Proposed text to add: in Legal section after "....nothing to do with the pending litigation."

In March 2016, Seidman and LRN filed an additional lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How. The complaint alleges that in 2013 WME acquired 49 percent of Chobani's ad agency, Droga5. It further alleges that WME "actively encouraged" Droga5 to use Seidman's intellectual property related to How.

Many thanks!

- BC1278 (talk) 20:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278

References

Partially implemented The numbers below correspond to the numbers from your request.

1. This request was partially implemented.
2. This request was not implemented.
3. This request was implemented.
4. This request was implemented.
5. This request was partially implemented.

Additionally, the Jewish Journal source was deprecated. That source covered 4 reference notes. In each instance the information was either retained or removed:

1. In the case of "His father, Alex, was a Polish-born physician who died in 1992." = retained.
2. In the case of "In Israel, Seidman did not excel in his studies. He had difficulty with the Hebrew language and because his mother shifted between Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, he had been enrolled at four different schools. When his mother brought him back to the United States, he found success in sports but still suffered in school. Because his family had moved a lot during his childhood, the first time he was in the same school for two consecutive years was when he started the 11th grade in Beverly Hills High School" = removed. Wikipedia articles typically skip these years.
3. In the case of "Seidman launched LRN in 1994 with the intent of creating a professional legal research firm for corporations, instead of them hiring inexperienced lawyers to advance through time consuming and laborious research = removed, as intent with regards to saving time through "consuming and laborious research" is not germane to the article.
4. In the case of "Only few weeks after the launch of LRN (previously referred to as Legal Research Network, and sometimes also referred to as the Legal Knowledge Company), the company found mention on the front page of The Wall Street Journal. Soon afterwards, large corporations such as Motorola, Johnson & Johnson, DuPont and Chevron were signing on for LRN's services. = removed, as the mentioning of how quickly the Wall Street Journal mentioned the company and how many large corporations lined up for its services is promotional in tone.

.spintendo  01:24, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Reply

@Spintendo: Thanks for the edits. I understand your point about how the early company description and even the later transformation are written so they are too much in tone as LRN promotion. But there are good articles that describes how he came up with the idea for the original LRN, raised the money himself, and then eventually had the ideas to change the company direction, which changed his career. I have tried to write it so it is more about him, and not an RN promo,but still lets us cover the major event of his career for past 30 years. This is the paragraph about what he's been up to for most of his career, other than writing the book and columns and suing people! How's this?

Insert Text in Career Section as new second paragraph:

Seidman came up with the idea for LRN after he was assigned the task of researching case law for O'Melveny & Meyers clients. Seidman said it didn't make sense that an inexperienced lawyer like him would spend days doing research when an expert could answer the relevant questions in minutes. So he pitched the general counsel at MCI on the idea of a network of legal experts who would work more cost-effectively for the company. He received a letter pledging a $500,000 contract. With that letter in hand as proof of concept, he raised $2 million from 45 different people. After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just "putting out fires" with legal research, he could "fireproof" companies by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics. Seidman eventually applied his training as a moral philosopher to his business, becoming an advisor on ethical behavior to Fortune 500 companies, which became the foundation for his 2007 book, How. -BC1278 (talk) 18:22, 31 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278

References

 Question: Was the lawsuit filed against Chobani and WME filed as Mr. Seidman vs. those entities? Or were they filed in the name of LRN? Because, like the information in this proposal, if it deals with LRN, then that is where the information should reside. I understand that Mr. Seidman's identity is a key part of his brand, but if the lawsuit involves the company, I don't see why those lawsuits are mentioned here with anything more than a sentence. .spintendo  19:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@Spintendo:Good question. Both suits were filed by Seidman personally and LRN. The background is that Seidman holds the How trademark personally and licenses them to LRN. So both Seidman and LRN claimed damages and sued jointly. The citations state the suits are from Seidman and LRN. I was curious about this myself, which is why I asked for background as to why it was done this way. Everything around the book and trademark is owned by him personally.-BC1278 (talk) 20:40, 31 May 2018 (UTC)BC1278

Edit request above, in this sub-section, is a separate issue.

OK, well in that case then I guess it would be mentioned, although I still feel that it is superfluous information. As for the edit request:

1. The 6th sentence does not directly concern any one company, so it would be germane to this article (or even better the How article). But if to be placed here, then the terms such as "putting out fires" and "fireproofing" would work against inclusion, even though they are quotes from the subject, they are offered alone without explanation, which would seem to go against WP:SLANG.
2. I feel that with regards to the 7th sentence where it says "Seidman eventually applied his training as a moral philosopher to his business" if by his business it is referring to LRN, then this information would be better placed in the LRN article.
3. Seidman's moment of self-actualization regarding his time spent doing research in sentences 1 and 2 are not workable here, as they involve more of a thought process rather than a concrete action. (A thought process is distinct from a way of thinking, which would be included. A thought process is identical to an idea, which would be included if it were a major idea. This particular idea was concerning Mr. Seidman's own personal time management at that moment, and thus, was not a "big idea" in the scheme of things.)
4. Sentences 4 and 5 which concern the letter, the $500K contract, and the 2 million dollars, are already included at LRN.
5. That leaves sentence number 3, which does not work on its own. .spintendo  03:11, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Reply

One again, thank you for taking the time to consider these requests!

Preamble: I'm struggling a bit here to have a brief synopsis of his 30-year career at LRN, without stepping into the LRN article. I've worked on other company founder articles before and usually there's a little wiggle room for overlap with the company article. A company description and a short founding story are commmon if you look at say, Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, Evan Ryan, Travis Kalanick. These all have a small bit of overlap with the articles about the companies they founded because otherwise, the bios would be incomplete as stand-alone articles. But too much overlap is bad, I know.

How about this:

1. In Career, sentence one, insert these underlined words at the end of "After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to launch LRN, originally a legal research company, which evolved into an education and consulting company for corporate ethics, regulatory compliance and corporate governance.

2. Insert new sentence two in Career Section:

"American Lawyer magazine featured Seidman in a 1995 feature story called "Should You be Afraid of This Man?" because of concerns in the legal industry that with his company, which was not a law firm, he would undercut law firms by charging substantially less for legal research.

Comment about the proposed sentence above: this idea that legal research should not be done fresh each time for each client, but instead could be done by a central bank of experts (sometimes just re-using the same research) was a big enough idea at the time that American Lawyer magazine (a trade bible for lawyers) put him on the cover with the headline, "Should You Be Afraid of This Man?" Seidman invented the idea of legal outsourcing to non-law firms - which is a multi-billion dollar industry today. The model was entirely novel when he started LRN.

3. Insert new sentence three in Career section (after proposed new American Lawyer sentence):

"After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just addressing urgent problems with legal research, he could protect companies for the long term by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics."

Comment: I have removed the slang language, as requested. I think that's all that was requested to fix this.

4. Comment: No need for me to repeat the founding story again. But I'd ask you look at the links above to the BLPs of these prominent entrepreneurs, or any other you can think of. I think you'll find they mostly include the founding story and at least a description of the company services. In which case, some condensed version of sentences 1 to 5 from the previous request might be included. I can shorten it but am not going to bother unless you think it's a good idea.

5. Comment: As per the comment about the relevance of the legal case, do you want me to propose maybe a two or three sentence version of the legal battle? Something shorter? It's arguably WP:Undue at that length because it takes up so much space compared to say, LRN, the company's he's been running the past 30 years. (On the other hand, the legal matter was on the front page of the New York Times and covered widely -it's why some editor unconnected to Seidman originally created the article.)

Thanks BC1278 (talk) 03:51, 1 June 2018 (UTC)BC1278

References

Reply quote box with inserted reviewer decisions and feedback 11-JUN-2018

Below you will see where text from your request has been quoted with individual advisory messages placed underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please see the enclosed notes for additional information about each request.  spintendo  05:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

In Career, sentence one, insert these underlined words at the end of "After law school, Seidman joined the law firm O'Melveny & Myers and left in December 1992 to launch LRN, originally a legal research company, which evolved into an education and consulting company for corporate ethics, regulatory compliance and corporate governance.
 Not approved.

___________
Insert new sentence two in Career Section: "American Lawyer magazine featured Seidman in a 1995 feature story called "Should You be Afraid of This Man?" because of concerns in the legal industry that with his company, which was not a law firm, he would undercut law firms by charging substantially less for legal research.
 Not approved.

___________
Insert new sentence three in Career section (after proposed new American Lawyer sentence): "After several years, Seidman decided that instead of just addressing urgent problems with legal research, he could protect companies for the long term by offering them internet tools to educate employees about legal and business ethics.
 Not approved.

___________
As per the comment about the relevance of the legal case, do you want me to propose maybe a two or three sentence version of the legal battle? Something shorter?
 No action taken.

___________

Follow up 19-JUL-2018

Just following up to make sure that there wasn't anything that needed to be done with the WMA lawsuit info? I hadn't heard back. Please advise, thnx.  spintendo  19:01, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

@Spintendo: The reliable source about the settlement of the lawsuits doesn't mention William Morris. There's only a press release about it. So it seems unfair to mention the lawsuit against William Morris at all. Therefore: please remove:

"In March 2016, Seidman and LRN filed a lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty against William Morris Endeavor Entertainment, his agent for the book, How.[25] In 2017, Seidman and LRN settled all three lawsuits.[24]"

Many thanks! BC1278 (talk) 18:25, 23 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278

These sources:[1][2] are not press releases, and using a press release to supplement a reliable, third-party source is appropriate. Grayfell (talk) 20:52, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Suggest edit

1. @DGG: and @Spintendo: As these two editors have suggested that the Legal Dispute suggestion might take up too much of the article by weight, despite all the press about it, I'd suggest the following:

Legal dispute

In 2014, Seidman sued yogurt maker Chobani and its advertising agency, Droga5, for violating his trademarks of the word "how" in relation to values and behavior in the corporate sphere after Chobani ran a 2014 advertising campaign around the theme "How Matters." In 2017, Seidman settled the lawsuit out of court after Chobani withdrew its application for a trademark for "How Matters."

2. Re the template above the article, it's now resolved, and I'd request it be removed. If Legal Dispute is shortened, there is now a citation for every statement in the article. Even if it's not changed, there's only one missing citation. And lots of specific categories have been added.

3. In the lead, please remove "attorney." The source does not support that Seidman is a practicing attorney and this is also not something Seidman is known for.

ThanksBC1278 (talk) 18:48, 13 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278

References

fine with me . DGG ( talk ) 21:54, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Reply 18-JUL-2018

Partially implemented

1. Y The proposed text regarding Chobani was implemented. The previous text mentioning Chobani was replaced even though your request did not explicitly request it be removed (i.e., "I'd suggest the following.."). The addition of text on a subject identical to the subject of Chobani served to imply that this text was to be removed and replaced in circumstances where the COI editor has forgotten to make a specific verbatim request to remove it (i.e., "Please delete the entire paragraph starting with...", for example.)
2. Y The Improve categories maintenance template was removed.
3. Y The mention of attorney was removed.
4. ?   "I'd suggest the following.." does not explicitly suggest anything to be removed from the 'Legal disputes' section beyond what was replaced regarding Chobani. "If Legal Dispute is shortened, there is now a citation for every statement in the article." That section cannot be shortened any further because you haven't specified how it should be shortened by describing the verbatim text to be removed.

I'd like not to have to keep guessing here. Please state exactly what text is to be removed.  spintendo  00:00, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

@BC1278: "I'd suggest the following.." says nothing about the William Morris lawsuits. What shall be done with this paragraph (on which the remaining maint. template hinges)? May I remove it in its entirety? Please advise.  spintendo  00:19, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

@Spintendo:. Removing these sentences in their entirety is fine by me but see below. Whatever is decided is fine by me.BC1278 (talk) 18:44, 27 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278

Request edit

Hi,

Since the article is now fully sourced, can someone remove the missing citation flag box from the top of the article? Many thanks! BC1278 (talk) 18:48, 27 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278

Reply 28-JUL-2018

 Remaining inline-templates require resolutions

I've highlighted in the Awards section where issues still remain. Regards,  spintendo  11:39, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

@Spintendo: Sorry I missed that. I have now added the citations. Thanks! BC1278 (talk) 19:12, 30 July 2018 (UTC)BC1278

Reply 30-JUL-2018

Maintenance template removed

 spintendo  23:33, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Request Edit

Request that in the lead paragraph, the description of the company that the subject of the article founded and leads, LRN, is edited to be slightly longer because there is no discussion of what he does at the company in the Career section.

Remove from second sentence of paragraph one: "... an ethics and compliance management firm."

Insert instead: "....which provides advising and education on ethics, regulatory compliance, and corporate culture to other organizations.

BC1278 (talk) 16:37, 15 August 2018 (UTC)BC1278

The source initially describes LRN as an "ethics and compliance business". Any changes made in the approach to ethics and compliance, and how to achieve those two things notwithstanding, these still remain its core purposes, if I'm not mistaken.  spintendo  19:20, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

@Spintendo: I would argue that it's very hard to know what "ethics and compliance management" actually means outside the context of a longer article about LRN. Quite literally, LRN provides digital learning courses to ensure employees of large corporations are aware of necessary legal and regulatory compliance; and they provide consultants to look at formal and informal ways to improve corporate culture and ethics -- which means how staff treat each other, their clients and the community. So here, in this article, where we don't have any additional context about LRN itself, to clue the reader in on what the company actually does, I think you need a little more detail. The language needs to be more self-explanatory. How about:

"....which provides provides corporate employees with ethics and regulatory compliance training and consults with companies on how to improve corporate culture and governance."

BC1278 (talk)BC1278

References

Reply 16-AUG-2018

   WikiLinked context provided   Knowing the article's fondness for WikiLinks, these 2 newer ones in the lead section covering ethics and compliance ought to serve our needs. Let me know if they don't work out.  spintendo  20:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)