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Talk:Delos Goldsmith

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Notability

[edit]

@Melcous: A tag was placed on this article, for Notability. However, the following sources are from secondary and reliable sources. Could you provide further clarification regarding the additional elements you would prefer to include in order to enhance the notability of the article? The following are included in the article:

  • Carmel: A History in Architecture by Kent Seavey.
  • Historic Homes and Inns of Carmel-by-the-Sea by lissandra Dramov and Lynn A. Momboisse.
  • A Tribute to Yesterday: The History of Carmel, Carmel by Sharron Lee Hale.
  • Creating Carmel: The Enduring Vision by Harold Gilliam, ‎Ann Gilliam.

The following are not yet included:

  • Carmel-by-the-Sea by Monica Hudson.
  • Historic Buildings of Downtown Carmel-by-the-Sea by Alissandra Dramov.
  • Carmel-by-the-Sea: From Aborigines to Coastal Commission by Sydney Temple, ‎Marguerite M. Temple.

Greg Henderson (talk) 17:54, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Greghenderson2006, This is not first about sourcing but whether the person meets WP:N. The arrticle appers to use non-reliable like family search alongside WP:OR for biographical details, and then sources that mention his name as a builder but do not appear to provide significant coverage of his life per WP:BASIC for his career. For example, a mention in someone else's locally published obituary 1 is to me a real stretch. Melcous (talk) 21:59, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for this information. The obituary is for Wesley R. Hunter, the son of Abbie Goldsmith (Hunter) a founding real estate agent for Carmel-by-the-Sea. Delos Goldsmith was her uncle. Delos Goldsmith was responsible for building the first hotel in Carmel called Hotel Carmelo, which became the Pine Inn. I would like to improve the article, since Goldsmith was one of the earliest pioneers to come to Carmel in the 1900s and is responsible for building a lot of the buildings and homes. Since, I get edit right now, would you suggest Request Edits to show WP:N? Greg Henderson (talk) 22:26, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Greghenderson2006, yes use request edit here, but can I suggest you focus on finding 2-3 sources that meet WP:BASIC - that is they are reliable, independent (and preferably not local) sources that provide significant coverage of Goldsmith himself, not just tangential mentions of him. Melcous (talk) 22:42, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
2-3 sources that meet WP:BASIC:
  1. A Tribute to Yesterday by Sharron Lee Hale, pp. 6-8 10-11, 18-19: Several pages talk about Delos Goldsmith as leading builder, his birth, building Carmel's first bathhouse, first hotel, Hotel Carmelo, that became today's Pine Inn.
  2. Historic Homes and Inns by Alissandra Dramov, pp. 7, 14, 41, 88: Goldsmith was the town's first builder, built the oldest hotel, the Pine Inn, built some of the earliest homes in Carmel for playwright Sinclair Lewis, California State Assemblyman Santiago J. Duckworth, and pioneer Abbie Jane Hunter.
  3. Neal Hotelling talks about Goldsmith in a History Beat article and said that Delos Goldsmith, as a builder, was the "first business in Carmel." He talks about how he built a community beach house in 1892.
  4. Other books that include seconday source information about Goldsmith include: Kent Seavey's book Carmel A History in Architecture pp. 30-33; Carmel-by-the-Sea, the Early Years by d, pp: 93-94, 111, 114
Greg Henderson (talk) 15:34, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request Edit A

[edit]
  • Add setence under "Early life": His father is considered one of the leading architects of the Connecticut Western Reserve. He designed and built the Joseph Sawyer House.[1][2][3]
  • Add setence under "Career": Delos Goldsmith went to work with his brother-in-law, Charles W. Heard, in Cleveland.[3]
  • Add section for "Works" and include the following works:
    • Robertson House (1888).[4][5]
    • Berwicks House (1888)[4][5]
    • Joseph Sley House (1888)[4][5]
    • Santiago Duckworth House (1888)[6]
    • M. E. Donnelly House (1888)[4]
    • Carpenter shop (1888).[4]
    • Farm Center Building (1890)[4]
    • Pine Inn (1889)[4][5]
    • Carmel Bath House (1888-1889)[7][5]
    • Two Queen Ann Homes: William Askew House (1892) and Goldsmith House (1894)[8][6][4]
    • Four portables (1902)[4]
    • Sinclair Lewis Hse. (1905)[8]

References

  1. ^ Engelking, Jennifer Boresz (2021). Hidden History of Lake County, Ohio. Arcadia: History Press. pp. 91–93. ISBN 9781467144582. Retrieved 2023-02-27.
  2. ^ "GOLDSMITH, JONATHAN". Encyclopedia of Cleveland History | Case Western Reserve University. May 11, 2018.
  3. ^ a b Jonathan Goldsmith, Pioneer Master Builder in the Western Reserve. Western Reserve Historical Society. 1980. ISBN 091170423X. 9780911704235. Retrieved 2 March 2021.
  4. ^ a b c d e f g h i Hale, Sharron Lee (1980). A tribute to yesterday: The history of Carmel, Carmel Valley, Big Sur, Point Lobos, Carmelite Monastery, and Los Burros. Santa Cruz, California: Valley Publishers. p. 6. ISBN 9780913548738. Retrieved 2022-01-18.
  5. ^ a b c d e "A Resident of Whom Carmel Should Be Proud, Delos E. Goldsmith, the Town's Oldest Citizen" (PDF). Carmel-by-the-Sea, California: Carmel Pine Cone. October 6, 1915. Retrieved 2023-09-02.
  6. ^ a b Seavey, Kent (2007). Carmel, A History in Architecture. Carmel-by-the-Sea, California: Arcadia Pub. pp. 30–31. ISBN 9780738547053. Retrieved 2022-01-16.
  7. ^ Hudson, Monica (2006). Carmel-By-The-Sea. Carmel-by-the-Sea, California: Arcadia Publishing. pp. 29–30. ISBN 9780738531229. Retrieved 2023-04-16.
  8. ^ a b "Carmel Inventory Of Historic Resources Database" (PDF). City Of Carmel-by-the-Sea. Carmel-by-the-Sea, California. Retrieved 2023-02-15.

Greg Henderson (talk) 16:09, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

1.  Not done - this is already explained by the linked article and I feel the current level of detail is sufficient.
2. I don't have access to that book so can't verify the claim, and nobody else has seen fit to review it in over a month. Deactivating as stale.
3.  Not done - this feels like a WP:NOTDIR violation. * Pppery * it has begun... 19:48, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request Edit B

[edit]
  • Under the "Career" section, please add to 2nd setence with citation saying: "From 1855 to 1859 Goldsmith left for Marysville, and went to Yuma, Arizona, and to Fraser River in British Columbia. He then returned to San Francisco, and from there departed for Ohio, where he engaged in the oil business at Mecca until the outbreak of the American Civil War, when he was appointed citizen wagon master of the Twenty-ninth Ohio Volunteer Infantry in the Union Army. He was assigned to the commissary department at Harper's Ferry but was later captured as a prisoner of war. He managed to escape and eventually made it to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. This marked the conclusion of his military service. In 1865, Goldsmith went south on a lumber-seeking expedition, meeting General Fitzhugh Lee at Whitehouse Landing, Virginia. By 1872, he was selling real estate in Ohio.[1] In 1879, he became an agent for Dr. Stockton, who was involved in the lumber industry in East Virginia. He stayed in this area for roughly three years before returning to the oil business, this time in Pennsylvania. By 1879, he had relocated to Cleveland, Ohio."[2]

References

  1. ^ "Real Estate Transfers". Northern Ohio Journal. Painesville, Ohio. January 27, 1872. p. 3. Retrieved 2023-02-23.
  2. ^ "A Resident of Whom Carmel Should Be Proud, Delos E. Goldsmith, the Town's Oldest Citizen" (PDF). Carmel-by-the-Sea, California: Carmel Pine Cone. October 6, 1915. Retrieved 2023-09-02.

Greg Henderson (talk) 17:44, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Parts of this seem to be copied directly from the source, and while I guess it's in the public domain I still feel it would be better to write this in our own words. This request has also been pending for a month with nobody willing to review it. * Pppery * it has begun... 19:48, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request Edit C

[edit]
  • Replace setence "intro" sentence:
    • From: "...was an American master builder and one of the earliest settlers of Carmel-by-the-Sea."
    • To: "...was an American master builder and the first professional builder of Carmel City."[1]: p353 
  • Replace setence in "Carmel City" section:
    • From: "Goldsmith became the first builder in Carmel."
    • To: "Goldsmith was the first professional builder of Carmel City."[1]: p353 
  • Replace setence in "Carmel-by-the-Sea" section:
    • From: "Goldsmith built a shed for his carpenter shop..."
    • To: "Goldsmith established the first business in Carmel, a carpenters shop on the street that would take the name, Carpenter Street. It was on the..."[1]: 389 

Greg Henderson (talk) 16:12, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done The first two parts are not supported by the source (a primary source which may not be reliable for this claim) - it says "arguably the first professional builder" whereas the requested text loses the arguably. The third part is copied directly from the source and should be written in Wikipedia's own words. * Pppery * it has begun... 19:48, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request Edit D

[edit]

References

  1. ^ a b c Carmel Historic Survey
  2. ^ "Carmel Historic Survey". Department of Parks and Recreation. Carmel-by-the-Sea, California. 2002. p. 352. Retrieved 2023-09-24.

Greg Henderson (talk) 18:07, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done the link addition.  Not done the rest, as again too closely paraphrased from the source and also of questionable tone and relevance. * Pppery * it has begun... 19:48, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit Request - Add infobox Military person

[edit]
  • Add to Infobox, Goldsmith's military career.
Delos E. Goldsmith
Born
Delos E. Goldsmith

(1828-09-03)September 3, 1828
Painesville, Ohio, US
Died3 July 1921(1921-07-03) (aged 92)
Carmel-by-the-Sea, California
OccupationMaster builder
SpouseAnna Barbara Stenner
Children3
Military career
Allegiance United States of America
Service / branchUnion Army
Years of service1861-1865
RankWagon master
UnitTwenty-ninth Ohio Volunteer Infantry
Battles / warsAmerican Civil War

Greg Henderson (talk) 16:30, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Cowboygilbert - (talk) ♥ 18:56, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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