Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sports

Implementation of consensus infobox changes for current seasons

At Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_172#Designating_current_seasons_in_infoboxes, I read clear consensus to use text rather than images to designate the current season. I went ahead and made the change at {{Infobox award}}, but since I'm not a sports person, I'll leave the implementation for sports templates such as {{Infobox football league}} to you all here. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:35, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

I've added a DNAU tag to this thread; feel free to remove it once you have finished implementation. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 20:49, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:HC Visé Basse Meuse#Requested move 21 June 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:HC Visé Basse Meuse#Requested move 21 June 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 02:06, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

World Governing Body

I am hoping someone involved in the WikiProject Sports can tell me if there is an official manner in which an organization becomes a World Governing Body for a specific sport, other than an organization claiming the title. I am particularly interested with respect to the sport of Pickleball. The International Federation of Pickleball has claimed to the the world governing body since it was created by USA Pickleball in 2010, but USA Pickleball has since withdrawn. The World Pickleball Federation was formed in 2018, but has fewer member countries than the IFP. USA Pickleball hasn't stated what they plan to do, but they represent a majority of the current world pickleball players. Canada, representing the second largest number of players, is a member of the WPF. India, representing the third largest number of players, is a member of the IFP. Any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. OvertAnalyzer (talk) 23:29, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

• None, of course. (As it happens, I recently read a long and informative article on the pickleball governance controversy.) Organizations can claim for themselves just about anything they please, and the degree to which they can strongarm other would-be umbrella organizations and regional/national leagues varies greatly. Until the late 1950s, for instance, FIFA's control over soccer wasn't absolute; the four British home islands national federations collectively controlled changes in rules for the game, and even now FIFA cannot change the rules without the concurrence of at least two of those federations. The National Hockey League and National Basketball Association respectively thumb their noses at the IIHF and FIBA, and they're too powerful to overrun or threaten. Boxing's another famously fragmented sport. Ravenswing 00:29, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

  That was pretty much my thinking on the matter, but I thought maybe someone in the Sports Wikiproject might be aware of something I wasn't. Would you be able to share or direct me to the article on pickleball governance that you refer to? Thank you for your response. OvertAnalyzer (talk) 22:11, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Addition of World Cup/Grand Slam/Grand Prix medals to infoboxes

Should World Cup/Grand Slam/Grand Prix medals (for events being held every year) be added to info boxes of athlete bios? My initial thought is they shouldn't be, and the infoboxes should be reserved for continental/world championships, Olympics and other major MSE events. Otherwise, where do we draw the line? What does everyone else think? Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:11, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

User:CLalgo has been added Grand Slam/Grand Prix medals to judo articles. As far as I can tell, this is the only editor/sport having these medals added to the info boxes. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:15, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Hello @Sportsfan 1234: This is a discussion you should have started before reverting edits, on the verge of edit warring, on the articles of Shady El Nahas, François Gauthier-Drapeau and Keagan Young. Now, let us break your question to its relevant components. In judo, the subject at matter, Grand Slam/Grand Prix events are part of the IJF World Tour and award as many (GP), or more (GS), world ranking points as continental championships.[1] These medals can be found in the infoboxes of most judoka, much thanks to the hard labor of JanPleun. World cup events aren't held in judo for many years now, and irrelevant to the subject at hand. CLalgo (talk) 18:29, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

You need to stop playing victim. Its getting old, fast. This also isn't a discussion exclusive to Judo, hence the inclusion of World Cup, as other sports title their world tours as "World Cups". Secondly, this discussions is about including events that are held on a yearly basis. Do we include them or not? Where do we draw the line? Literally no other sport has "World Tour" events listed in their infobox. I propose a list of years/medals like in Tennis [2], where major events such as the Olympics show medals, while World Tour events held everywhere are listed in a subsection in the infobox. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:33, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Your wanted discussion may be broad, but your edit war is narrow and held over judo related articles. We shall discuss them, and not the whole project. In any case, You can't revert edits and delete information from articles, when in other articles of the same nature the information is available. Stop edit warring, stop threatening me after I've warned you not to edit war, and discuss the matter and not the person ("You need to stop playing victim.."). CLalgo (talk) 18:44, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

You are playing victim, claiming I am threatening you when we are having a civilized discussion, get a grip please. We are discussing this on WP:SPORTS so this discussion is NOT just related to judo. "When in other articles of the same nature the information is available" which is single sourced. Please point out to me bio's of any other sport with World Series events linked in their infobox. I will wait. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:49, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

I do not know what you are trying to achieve. Hundreds of judoka have medals in their infoboxes, but just these to Canadian judoka shouldn't? This is absurd. CLalgo (talk) 19:08, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:OTHERCONTENT. I am definitely not saying that. I don't think they should be included across all biography articles. Hence why I started a discussion here to gauge the opinion of a wider audience. As an edit warrior, CLalgo, you should know that discussions are important to solving disputes. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:22, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

First, if I were an edit warrior, I wouldn't know that.
Second, let's keep to the point. Why shouldn't the medals be presented as they are? @JanPleun, Simeon, Almagestas, Faycal.09, and DrAndCol: Pinging you editors that might have something to add on the subject. CLalgo (talk) 19:30, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

My point is the infobox should be used to summarize key details. If we are going to list World Tour events in the infobox, we are going to run into lengthy infoboxes with way too much information. This is why I think it should be reserved for major events such as the Olympics or major multi sporting events. Everything else can be summarized in the prose or through a section dedicated to grand slams, such as majors in tennis. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 19:44, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

I like the way information is presented in Roger Federer so, if there is consensus for it, we could update {{Infobox judoka}} to have a section for the IJF Grand Slam / Grand Prix medals. I would say it's reasonable to have some sport-specific senior level medals included, in addition to the world / continental / Olympic medals, as they form part of an athlete's career. For judo I think the number of medals may be ok (if displayed properly in the infobox) but I think for the Karate1 Premier League a talented karateka may end up with too many medals for the infobox. As another example, for archery I've been including the World Cup medals as well (e.g., Ella Gibson, Casey Kaufhold). I do think all the cadet / junior medals, such as in Michaela Polleres, is excessive so perhaps a line can be drawn at senior level medals (possibly with the exception of the Youth Olympic Games, and it's probably different for gymnastics as well). Simeon (talk) 20:18, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

@Simeon: Thanks for joining the discussion. My problem with adopting {{Infobox tennis biography}}'s way of presenting Grand Slam achievements is that the GS host cities aren't fixed in judo as they are in tennis, and the the chronological order of GS\GP seems, to me, more important than their location. One thing I do like in tennis players articles is the Career statistics section, that could find a place in judoka articles. As previously said, that is a BIG project. Currently, the section most resembling it might be Sagi Muki's Titles section, with great similarities, of course. CLalgo (talk) 20:36, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

@Sportsfan 1234: For your arguments:

1. WP:OTHERCONTENT doesn't apply here, as this is not a case of "similar content exists or is formatted similarly in some other page", but in all other pages. There is a difference.
2. WP:BATHWATER: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Even if you think the medals shouldn't be in the infobox, don't delete them. You may (after discussion) move them to a different section of the article, but just deleting them helps nobody and seems like WP:IDONTLIKEIT.

Having said that, I'll play. Say we do remove some of the sections from the medal table in the infoboxes.

1. What sections will remain, and why those?
2. What will the new medal section look like?
3. Who will labor to transfer all medals from the infoboxes to the new section? For clearly, we do not want to lose any information, just to reorganize it. Keep in mind, there are currently more than 1,000 judoka articles. This won't be a small project. CLalgo (talk) 20:26, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

1) WP:OTHERCONTENT doesn't apply here, as this is not a case of "similar content exists or is formatted similarly in some other page", but in all other pages. There is a difference. Still there is no deadline.

2) WP:BATHWATER: Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! Even if you think the medals shouldn't be in the infobox, don't delete them. You may (after discussion) move them to a different section of the article, but just deleting them helps nobody and seems like WP:IDONTLIKEIT.

Please stop ommitting facts. The medals removed are sourced in the article in question (in the prose) François Gauthier-Drapeau.

1) I think including medals on a continental basis and world basis is fine. The highest event in question. So for ex. in Judo that would be the World Championships / Olympics (at all age levels) and the Continental Championships/Continental Multi sport events. These would represent the highest level per category (world and continental).

2) Medals section should include those events only, I am not even sure what you mean by what they will look like.

3) Again there is no deadline, multiple editors can work to a common goal. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 22:53, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

@Sportsfan 1234: Please, elaborate your points.

1. "Still there is no deadline." — What do you mean?
2. "Please stop ommitting facts. The medals removed are sourced in the article in question (in the prose) François Gauthier-Drapeau." — Again, I'm missing your point and what facts were ommited. What specific edit are you referring to (please, provide a diff) and in any case, why shouldn't medals be presented in an organized way on top of any prose?
3. "I think including medals on a continental basis and world basis is fine. The highest event in question. So for ex. in Judo that would be the World Championships / Olympics (at all age levels) and the Continental Championships/Continental Multi sport events. These would represent the highest level per category (world and continental)." — I do not know what your level of understanding in judo is, but claiming that the continental championships are of higher level or importance than the Judo World Masters is absurd, as it awards 157% (!) more ranking points than the continental championships. Even the Grand Slams award 43% more ranking points the the continental championships, while some iterations of Games award none, as is the case for all Pan American Games.
4. "Medals section should include those events only, I am not even sure what you mean by what they will look like." — This is an assertion, baseless and without a clear reason where to draw the line.
5. "Again there is no deadline, multiple editors can work to a common goal." — That is true, but you are missing the point. Even if a project like this is lunched, AFTER a consensus is reached, medal wont be removed — but moved to a new, newly designed section. We are not here to remove relevant, sourced information. We may organize it differently, but removing it because "I don't like it HERE" is pure vandalism. CLalgo (talk) 08:24, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

1) There is no deadline to have this discussion or any implementation of what comes out of it.

2) You said I was blindly remove the grand slam section from the article in question, but that is not true (Ie ommitting facts). Each grand slam medal was sourced in the prose, where it should be.

3) I think you are confused or don't understand me. What I am trying to say is there is two types of competitions: World and Continental. For the world category: World Championships and Olympics are the top of the list, and for Continental that would be the continental championships. I think keeping the infobox as short as possible is important as per User:Lee Vilenski. The only reason I suggest continental multi=sport games is they are held every 4 years and won't clog up the infobox.

4) I am asking you what the section should look like.

5) I think they should be removed from the infobox entirely and sourced in the prose or a section in the prose. There is 0 reasoning to have World Series/Slam etc. events in the infobox imo. Please list why you think they should be included, keeping in mind no other sport lists regular World Series events in infoboxes. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 14:46, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

@Sportsfan 1234:

1. There is no deadline to have this discussion or any implementation of what comes out of it. — That is true for every discussion. Lets leave this point.
2. You said I was blindly remove the grand slam section from the article in question, but that is not true (Ie ommitting facts). Each grand slam medal was sourced in the prose, where it should be. — The fact that a medal is in the prose, which is good, doesn't mean it shouldn't appear in the medal table – if one exists.
3. 1. I think you are confused or don't understand me. — That is true.
   2. ...there is two types of competitions: World and Continental. For the world category: World Championships and Olympics are the top of the list, and for Continental that would be the continental championships. — Actually, the World Masters is an annual world class competition, considered of no lesser quality the the World Championships or the Olympic Games. The Grand Slams are also worldly events, ranked higher by the International Judo Federation then the continental championships that ranked on par with the Grand Prix, so I do understand you more now, but still think that if the continental medals are visualized, which they should, than the World Tour must too.
4. I am asking you what the section should look like. — This is not an answer I can draw from the top of my head. It was your suggestion that one would be created instead of the current infobox medal table. My instinct says to build on the basis of something like Sagi Muki's Titles section. I like its order, sortability and available references. Maybe dates could be added too, and perhaps non-medal results, such as in tennis' Roger Federer Career statistics section.
5. 1. keeping in mind no other sport lists regular World Series events in infoboxes. — First, I do not know that. If anyone got a contradicting example, please link to it in a comment.
   2. I think they should be removed from the infobox entirely and sourced in the prose or a section in the prose. There is 0 reasoning to have World Series/Slam etc. events in the infobox imo. — Having information in prose doesn't mean it should be also organized in a table. This is true for tennis, as shown above, for other martial arts such as MMA, boxing, kickboxing and more that list the entire record of the athlete in a table and many other sports that list the subject's achievements in various competitions in table form. I'm willing to concede that maybe some medals shouldn't be in the heading infobox, but there is no reason what so ever not to have them – organized – somewhere else in the article.

Meanwhile, judoka articles should keep the current, common structure, until a different one will be agreed on. CLalgo (talk) 09:13, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Blimey, can we just calm down a little? It all boils down to if we think it's suitable to have medals won at international tournaments in the infobox. Personally, I try my best to shorten infoboxes wherever possible. They are in articles to give a short overview of key facts, and whilst this is certainly suitable for major things about a person, such as winning a world title, does winning a bronze in a continental championship really fit this? I'd be against having such events included in infoboxes, but am aware that we even have things such as the World Games in certain BLPs. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:37, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Nomination for merger of Template:Infobox athletic conference

Template:Infobox athletic conference has been nominated for merging with Template:Infobox sports league. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. –Aidan721 (talk) 13:10, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Grass as a surface in sports venues

A question about the linking of "grass" in sports contexts (mostly within infobox fields) is being discussed at Template talk:Infobox venue#Grass as a surface in sports venues. There are around a thousand articles affected. – Uanfala (talk) 13:41, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Baseball & Football

Should Federal League teams/records be in the 1914 Major League Baseball season & the 1915 Major League Baseball season pages? See RFC at WP:BASEBALL. Also are AFL teams included in the 1960 to 1969 NFL season pages? GoodDay (talk) 04:43, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Infobox guidelines

While working on lists of notable people connected to cities and schools, I have expanded sports biographical articles or at least taken them beyond the stub level. I have also created an infobox if needed. Several times, my infobox work has been criticized. For example, I didn't know that sports infoboxes are the one place in Wikipedia where abbreviation are standard, and I didn't know that minor league teams are not listed in the infobox. I am not a sports person, but want to get this right because so many that I come across need sources and cleanup. Where can I find the standard guidelines for sports infoboxes. And also, if their only pro team is in the minor leagues, does that mean their infobox is empty? What about players who are more famous for college play than the pros? Thanks. Rublamb (talk) 22:14, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

There's no one-size-fits-all across sports. With that, heck, anything can be criticized on Wikipedia. There's just no way to immunize yourself against that. Ravenswing 21:36, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

If you need advice on sport infoboxes, this link would give you a little bit help. SarahTHunter (talk) 18:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

When do school sports become notable?

This is a genuine question: I'm not into editing sports articles, but it's my understanding that sportspeople need good press coverage or achievements at quite a high level to be considered notable (appearing at the Olympics isn't enough, you need to win a medal). So I'm wondering whether the sport section of an article on a school such as Rice_Lake_High_School is sneaking through the sports barrier by being a school? Is the list of achievements in boys basketball in the Big Rivers Conference really notable? I don't know enough to judge, and would appreciate a more informed opinion. Elemimele (talk) 20:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Sections within a page do not necessarily need to hold to the same standards as an entire article on the same subject. That being said, that's a rather large and somewhat-excessive list, so I'll convert it to prose and see if that helps. Primefac (talk) 10:48, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

High school sports teams and their achievement need to be summarised to include only the most noteworthy details, and it's very unlikely any non-notable individuals will warrant mention. We certainly should not be detailing almost everything, as was the case here before it was cleaned up. _wjemather^{please leave a message...} 11:56, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Cork Junior A Hunting Championship

Any thoughts on 2021_Cork_Junior_A_Hurling_Championship and similar articles, going back to 2015? The championship itself seems to pass GNG, but I'm ambivalent on the suitability of individual year results. Ovinus (talk) 19:43, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

The sixth tier in a county's competitions? Not remotely, for individual seasons. Ravenswing 21:34, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah okay. Bulk AfD is appropriate? Ovinus (talk) 21:38, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

1921 Cardinals NFL team

Would somebody (who knows better then I) fix the 1921 Racine Cardinals season page. It's in a state of confusion over whether it's the Racine Cardinals or the Chicago Cardinals. GoodDay (talk) 08:04, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Template: Start date and age

Howdy. Do we need Template:Start date and age added to the founding dates in the infoboxes of Sports team pages? GoodDay (talk) 02:30, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

From what I can see - NFL & MLS teams are using it, but NHL, MLB, NBA & CFL teams are not using it.

Sport results notability

I'm wondering if there is such a thing as a notability guide for sport results. I've noticed that most of the sports' individual events in the Paralympic Games haven't been done i.e. redlinked. If there's anybody who does sports results for other competitions, I'd like some advice or tips on what to do as I've only done sports pages for 2020 & 2024 Summer Paralympics but not done any specific event pages e.g. 100m sprint and 50m freestyle. Thanks. SarahTHunter (talk) 18:12, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

Commonwealth Games intro & infobox

Should we use just "city, country" for the intros & infoboxes of Year British Empire/British Empire and Commonwealth/British Commonwealth/Commonwealth Games (with the exception of the 2026 Games) pages? GoodDay (talk) 00:10, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

Over-capitalization of tournament article titles

See discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_Basketball#Over-capitalization, where we're talking mostly about college basketball tournament articles, but also a similar pattern in volleyball, soccer, and ice hockey; maybe a few others? Please join there. Dicklyon (talk) 02:29, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Infoboxes

@2603:7000:2143:8500:1D57:F56F:F459:8F5E: has raised concerns about lack of info at the bottom of infoboxes, see 2017 Maccabiah Games as an example. Should we include or add the previous year & next year or not? GoodDay (talk) 19:21, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I didn't even know there are cases where edition number is used instead of the year. I think year numbers are more informative. "← 19th Maccabiah" is a weird choice in many reasons. Usually there is just a year number and an organizing city for multi-sport events. For 2019 European Games, there is "← Baku 2015" not "1st European". Pelmeen10 (talk) 21:26, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Notability of Country at Event articles

I came across a large amount of very stubby articles along the lines of <country> at <event>, such as Cambodia at the 1983 World Championships in Athletics and Upper Volta at the 1983 World Championships in Athletics. Do these fall under WP:NSPORTS or WP:NEVENT, and has there been any previous discussion about bright line rules for these types of articles? Ljleppan (talk) 10:06, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Pinging Itxia, who appears to have authored most (all?) of the ones I've noticed. Ljleppan (talk) 10:09, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Speaking entirely for myself, if I come across country pages like those with nothing more than stats and raw data, I generally redirect it to the <country> at <games> summary article, since the information is likely already collated there. I have done (but am less comfortable with) redirecting pages without an overview page to the relevant edition of the games. In this particular case, for example, you would lose which athletes competed (whereas if you had a Cambodia at the World Championships in Athletics they could still be listed there). Primefac (talk) 12:40, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I think for Multi-sports events at a level of the Pan American, Commonwealth, Asian or Olympics, will almost always be notable. Throughout my 9 years here, I have yet to have worked on an article of a country at x event without finding coverage for the above mentioned events. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:21, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I would also agree with this; turning a page into a redirect might be okay in the short-term, but someone more(?) interested in the subject will likely be able to flesh it out to a suitable length. Primefac (talk) 15:27, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

The truth is that I don't know if there has been any previous discussion about bright line rules for these types of articles.

What I do know is that <country> at 2022 (and 2019, 2017 and so on) World Athletics Championships articles are made for all countries. Why won't there be any of the first championships? My goal was to complete wikipedia with that data, but if there is no interest, I don't gain anything by doing it either.

Why should there be a United States at the 1983 World Championships in Athletics (not only that, there are 1980 and 1976 articles, when they are not even World Championships per se) but not an article about Benin at the 1983 World Championships in Athletics? I agree that if Benin, for example, has only sent one or two athletes to each World Championship, you could redirect all their articles to Benin at <games> summary article, when there is one.

And another thing I don't understand is that if links to all those articles appear in the {{Infobox country at games}} template, it's because there's an interest in their existence, right? Or we prefer to see them in red (only the old ones, of course, because the new ones are all in blue)?

Anyway, I will continue doing those articles, at least from the countries with the most athletes (it remains to be seen who decides what is the appropiate number of athletes to be worth have an article). If I see that it continues to cause problems, then I stop doing it. No problem.

PS: Sorry for my English. Itxia (talk) 09:55, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I don't think it's a question of whether we should or not (I think we'd all agree the answer is "should"), but whether there is enough information. I raised a similar question at WT:OLYMPICS (permalink) about Haiti at the 1936 Summer Olympics, which at the time was a one-line stub. It's now an ITN candidate and looks pretty good!

In other words, by all means continue to create these pages - the more there are, the more interest will hopefully arise in filling out the rest and "turning redlinks blue". If a page is a redirect, such as the Cambodia page, think about why that was done - if there can be more information added, then it can likely be converted back into an article. If all that can be said is "XYZ country sent two athletes" then it might be more appropriate to save it for the summary/overview article. Primefac (talk) 10:04, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

Just to expand on the first message here, my intent was not to make an accusation of these articles should not have been created, but a honest question w/r/t where they fall in the rather labyrinthine mess of various Wikipedia policies, guidelines and non-codified consensuses (I guess that's how one pluralizes consensus?). Ljleppan (talk) 10:11, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I think there's too many of the "X at event Y" articles. Outside of the Olympics, most of them aren't going to be notable, or ever provide any more information than a couple of lines of text. e.g. not sure why Luxembourg at the 2022 World Games and Mongolia at the 2022 World Games exist, they had one athlete at a Games that's less well covered than the Olympics, so doubt they would actually pass WP:GNG. It seems there's a lot of recentism with these articles too, as they're created for every country for an event this year, but don't exist for the same event 20 years ago, for the notable countries i.e. the ones that had 100+ participants. Joseph2302 (talk) 15:08, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Yea those are good examples of low quality articles. For the most part Pan Am Games, Asian Games, European Games and the Commonwealth Games will draw enough coverage for WP:GNG Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 18:38, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Brackets

I'm looking for some advice on how to use brackets for sport competitions' final rounds. Thanks SarahTHunter (talk) 14:54, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Marathon champion footers

Do we really need templates for winners of marathons that are not World Marathon Majors? There are 85 winners templates listed in Category:Marathon champions navigational boxes, and lots of them seem like winning those events is not a defining part of someone's career, and half the people listed on them are non-notable e.g. Template:Footer Istanbul Marathon Champions Men or Template:Footer Belgrade Marathon Champions Men. Is there a sports Wikiproject guideline for which of these should be kept or not, as I don't believe that many of these templates need to exist. And some people as a result have way too many marathon winners templates on their pages e.g. Eliud Kipchoge has 7 of the "X marathon - men's winners" templates, which would only be 4 if we only had them for World Marathon Majors. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:57, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Does a template wrapper solve half your issue? Pelmeen10 (talk) 20:50, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

The answer is no. Classic case of WP:TCREEP. See WP:NAVBOX. Although they are clearly defined group, the reality is that this sort of navbox generally fails item 2 there: "The articles should refer to each other, to a reasonable extent." The people are not really related except in winning this particular event. The reality is that these are used for decorative purposes, not as "a grouping of links used in multiple related articles to facilitate navigation between those articles in Wikipedia." Nigej (talk) 06:48, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Paintball and Paintball Equipment

I noticed some articles (such as paintball equipment) had very few sources (and what was there wasn't great to say the least), and a bunch of what looks like advertising. Sections on equipment maintence and reusable paintballs got nuked entirely, and it looks like the promotional material had been in the article for over a decade. I removed some of it after confering with people on the discord, but I am not too versed in paintball (just found the article after looking up a trivia thing), so was wondering if it might be possible for others to also give articles about paintball a onceover as well? I plan to keep looking into it, but I figure the eyes of more experienced editors and some people who actually know stuff about paintball might be useful. OmniusM (talk) 12:05, 30 September 2022 (UTC)