Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2017 August 29

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The result was redirect to Poison laboratory of the Soviet secret services. -- Ed (Edgar181) 11:20, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Carbylamine-choline-chloride

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The article cannot be verified following an extensive RFC debate BFG (talk) 18:46, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. There is a clear consensus emerging at the article talk page for redirecting. But there is no reason to actually delete the pagename, which is a useful search term for readers. So we don't need a full-out deletion, and the problem can be solved without needing anything to be done here. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment The page should be entitled Carbylamine choline chloride per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry).-Pontificalibus (talk) 15:02, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Blake Chow

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Being the first from group X to do Y isn't something that is inherently notable, and even if that event has significant coverage, it is WP:BLP1E. Other sources are either routine coverage of crimes he investigated (not coverage of him in detail) or less than reliably sourced. John from Idegon (talk) 17:56, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Police department executives, even of a large force like LA's, are not inherently notable. I'm not persuaded by the claim that he's the highest-ranking Chinese-American in the history of the force. Every police department will have a highest-ranking Foo-American, for various values of Foo. Multiply the number of large police departments by the number of possible values of Foo, and we'd be overrun with articles with no other claim to notability than the ethnicity of the person occupying the position. Certainly, if Chow were independently notable, his being the highest-ranking Chinese-American ought to be included; but it's not itself enough for notability. TJRC (talk) 19:56, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete on the merits. Oddly, WP:USUAL applies, however - if, for example, Cdr. Chow becomes Chief of Police or something, then you might have a case for an article. At this point, given the coverage in evidence, BLP1E seems to control. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 03:11, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, see Chief of the Los Angeles Police Department, where most of the officers who served as Chief are bluelinks. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 03:14, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete we need significant, sustained coverage which is lacking here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:17, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:17, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tim Burns (jurist)

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Doesn't meet WP:NPOL or WP:GNG. Routine coverage for a political candidate. Boleyn (talk) 17:44, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG; apart from the political candidacy, professional credentials are within normal limits for any litigation partner of a certain age in a large national law firm in the U.S. - Julietdeltalima (talk) 03:15, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - WP:TOOSOON. Bearian (talk) 13:48, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) J 947^{^{^{(c) (m)}}} 05:47, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ramakant Madhvi

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~~Doesn't meet WP:NPOL or WP:GNG. Boleyn (talk) 17:35, 29 August 2017 (UTC)~~[reply]

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Keep -- Thane Municipal Corporation is the governing body for Thane (population just under 2 mil people), and deputy mayor appears to be an elected position. For comparison, the city of Chicago is over 2 mil ppl, and most of its aldermen have articles: Chicago_City_Council#Chicago_aldermen. To prevent systemic bias, I'm voting keep. Given the size of the population, the subject also probably meets WP:NPOL. K.e.coffman (talk) 04:09, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

K.e.coffman has convinced me I was wrong - nomination withdrawn. Boleyn (talk) 05:17, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. – filelakeshoe (t / c)  09:45, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rangrez Mustaquim Akhtar

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Does not meet WP:NPOL or WP:GNG. Boleyn (talk) 17:33, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete -- does not meet WP:NPOL and references provided look unconvincing. The article is promotional in tone and such content is excluded per WP:NOTSPAM. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:58, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy keep. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:54, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Mortimer Montgomery

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~~Doesn't meet WP:NPOL or WP:GNG. Boleyn (talk) 17:25, 29 August 2017 (UTC)~~[reply]

Has Times obit and Who's Who entry - usually enough for WP:GNG. Threehundredeight (talk) 18:29, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a link to the Times obit., was it paid for or just coverage for free?There are many Who's Who guides, I wouldn't say inclusion in one I've never heard of would be automatic inclusion, do you have evidence of extensive coverage, Threehundredeight? Boleyn (talk) 19:09, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have access to Times database at the moment. The Who's Who guide is the one cited in the article - most editors who know anything about UK biographies will be very familiar with that source. Threehundredeight (talk) 19:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. A Google Books search with narrowly drawn date parameters yields a reasonable number of book hits, such as this 1914 mention which describes Montgomery as "the author of the well-known work, “Montgomery's Licensing Practice”". bd2412 T 19:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I have added a bit of material. This subject seems to meet the letter of WP:AUTHOR, given that there is a source literally describing a book written by him as a "well-known work". bd2412 T 23:51, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Withdraw nomination per comments above and improvements to article. Boleyn (talk) 05:17, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:00, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Joni Paladin

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I declined the expired BLPProd and redirected as there appears to be no independent notability. There were sources in a prior version that were removed. Redirect was reverted to present unsourced version. My attempt to find sources was unfruitful. Delete as not meeting GNG, no reliable sources.Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC) Dlohcierekim (talk) 16:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no notability. Power~enwiki (talk) 21:22, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The artist is better known as Jamie Bond, and her biggest claim to fame appears to be singing the song "Heart of Love", on the soundtrack to the 1985 film The Heavenly Kid. I'm unable to verify the claims made about radio airplay in the current version of the article, but it's possible there are offline 1980s-era sources that may provide more information about her. Chubbles (talk) 21:53, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:17, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

AIT Therapeutics

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Fails WP:NCORP. PROD contested by article creator. shoy (reactions) 16:41, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: A WP:SPA article on a company. There is a brief item about their product in trial here but other than that and the usual listings I am seeing no coverage of this company (as distinct from the general field in which they operate, which provides the main article content and references and belongs in Nitric_oxide#Medical_use). Fails WP:CORPDEPTH. AllyD (talk) 17:03, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Sourcing in article is not enough. I was not able to find enough of substance. Company has a market cap of 36m and is traded OTC.Icewhiz (talk) 17:46, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete obvious promotion. Jytdog (talk) 03:47, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

and getting more absurdly promotional as time goes on diff. Jytdog (talk) 17:00, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy deleted A7 ... discospinster _talk 17:35, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Richard F Devon

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Hoax Rhadow (talk) 16:21, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There is already a correctly placed speedy tag on the page and it obviously vandalism so not sure why it's been put to AFD? - Pmedema (talk) 17:10, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Hello Pmedema -- The AfD preceded the speedy tag. I think the system is working as it should. Rhadow (talk) 17:19, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Eleven International Publishing. Sandstein 12:02, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

European Employment Law Cases

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This journal is neither well renowned nor has received significant media coverage Failosopher (talk) 15:46, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Eleven International Publishing, its owner, as it's mentioned there. postdlf (talk) 00:24, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this. A Guy into Books (talk) 13:48, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Don't see anything indicating notability. Not sure about merging either, as I don't see anything establishing notability of the publisher... There's one other journal article (European Journal of Law Reform), which doesn't seem to be notable either. As an aside, note that all three articles (the 2 journals and the publisher) were created by a COI editor. --Randykitty (talk) 14:52, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 00:37, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Alwyn Hamilton

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Poorly referenced WP:BLP of a writer, whose only discernible claim of notability per WP:NAUTHOR is that she exists. And for referencing, what we have here is two primary sources (her own website and her "our authors" profile on the website of her publisher) and one Q&A interview in which she's talking about herself. As always, a writer is not automatically entitled to have a Wikipedia article just because she exists, and she doesn't get to talk herself into Wikipedia either -- she has to be the subject of enough coverage in reliable sources, written in the third person by people independent of her PR team, to clear WP:GNG. I'm also bundling her debut book, which doesn't have any properly sourced indication of notability either -- its sole source is the exact same Q&A interview that isn't cutting it in the BLP. Bearcat (talk) 16:05, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Alwyn Hamilton, and Rebel of the Sands, too. There are multiple RS of criticism of RoS and also for the sequel. Hamilton passes CREATIVE. I've added sources to her article, but don't have time to work on RoS, though you can see the sources that would be useful for the book in Hamilton's article. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 00:56, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WP:CREATIVE and WP:GNG. Hmlarson (talk) 04:49, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep the author's article; "Redirect" the book article to the author article. No need for two article on these closely related subjects. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:23, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Ample evidence appearing in the footnotes for a GNG pass, no need to apply the AUTHOR SNG. Carrite (talk) 15:12, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Additional sourcing improved article, establishing notability. Montanabw^(talk) 18:50, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep both. I expanded Rebel of the Sands with sources (e.g., New York Times, The Guardian) to help show that it meets WP:BKCRIT. gongshow talk 22:26, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep x2 ("what is all that white fluffy stuff", now now coola:)), Rebel of the Sands meets WP:NBOOK, with multiple reviews (in addition to those in the article, a lot more out there ie Deseret News, common sense media, Bulletin of the Center for Children's Books, New York Journal of Books School Library Journal, Booklist, The Horn Book, School Library Connection, VOYA Reviews phew! that will do:)) and being a NYT best seller, Hamilton meets WP:NAUTHOR, with this book held by over 1000 libraries worldwide (not just Canada and USA but numerous other countries ie. UK, NZ, OZ, Holland) so it is "well known", and has had plenty of reviews. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:00, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. apparent consensus DGG ( talk ) 00:27, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Waiting for Normal

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Completely unreferenced article about a YA novel, consisting exclusively of a plot summary and making no actual claim of notability per WP:NBOOK. As always, every book is not automatically entitled to a Wikipedia article just because it exists -- it needs to have an actual notability claim, and reliable source coverage about it. Bearcat (talk) 15:58, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The book has received a number of awards according to the Amazon page: "School Library Journal Best Book * ALA Notable Children’s Book * New York Public Library’s “One Hundred Titles for Reading and Sharing” * Chicago Public Library Best of the Best * Cooperative Children’s Book Center Choice * Connecticut Book Award Winner * American Library Association Schneider Family Book Award Winner". I think the ALA awards ensure that this meets our notability guidelines for books. Malinaccier (talk) 19:36, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Verifiable evidence that has received "major literary awards" and therefore passes WP:NBOOK. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:38, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep article could use improved referencing not deletion per WP:ATD. Hmlarson (talk) 04:46, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Willie Earl Green. Sandstein 06:51, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Denise "Dee Dee" Walker case

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Murder case which appears to be non-notable per WP:NCRIME. Little major coverage aside from the CNN article. DrStrauss talk 15:50, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Question Based on the article, which includes the reversal of aan erroneous conviction for murder, there should be extensive news coverage. It's not in the present article. Has the nom. done the required WP:BEFORE search? DGG ( talk ) 02:36, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Willie Earl Green (whose exoneration seems to make this notable). There is some more coverage (including a whole book - with the exonerated man as an author (though it seems he wasn't the main author), written incidentally after the Wikipedia article): [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. If kept standalone - it needs to be renamed (e.g. Murder of Denise Walker).Icewhiz (talk) 10:01, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete this and Willie Earl Green. My news archive searches on the murder found nothing. I'm not saying that there might not have bee a news story that I missed despite using a variety of keywords, only that there couldn't have been much. What did come up was a BLP1E-type flurry on Green's exoneration. The Los Angeles Times reported the story, Green always maintained he was innocent, kept his nose clean in prison, got an associate degree, worked in the prison library and married his penpal - all while in prison. He had been convicted based on the sole testimony of an eye-witness who was high on cocaine at the time of the murder; also police had falsely informed the witness that Green had previously been convicted of stealing from the murder victim. Judge therefore ruled that Green did not receive a fair trial. Sum total of coverage appears to have been two news stories in the Los Angeles Times, neither very long. Plus an AP story and a UPI story that got picked up by a number of newspapers. All in March 2008. It is a story that tugs at the heartstrings. But I am not persuaded that either the murder victim or the falsely assused man are notable.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:37, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~- (Note: I'll accept if this is a merge but a redirect is not helpful for this unlikely search term) A tragic turn of events but this clearly falls under WP:NOTNEWS. I just cannot find the significant and WP:DIVERSE coverage necessary to argue a level of notability.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:06, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Willie Earl Green. As a stand-alone crime, it was not notable; as a condition it is. Bearian (talk) 13:50, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge per above arguments, though possibly the resulting article should be named to reflect a focus on the case and not the people, per WP:1E? Artw (talk) 22:52, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per Bearian. The murder is not exceptional but the semi-exoneration is. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:25, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. It looks like this is heading towards a merge. Normally, after such a merge, the title would be redirected to the merge target. In this case, it's such an unlikely search term, that seems pointless. However, moving this to Dee Dee Walker or Denise Walker, and then redirecting that title would make a lot more sense. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:43, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. – filelakeshoe )³  09:44, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Lloyd McCollough

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Fails WP:MUSICBIO. Some of the content also constitutes WP:BLP violations due to lack of sources. DrStrauss talk 15:47, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Delete WP:BLP isn't a concern since he died in 1976. However, I see no claim of notability and no secondary sources presented. Power~enwiki (talk) 00:52, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:MUSICBIO and WP:SIGCOV .It is not a WP:BLP as the subject died in 1976 but this biography clearly lacks sources.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:36, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. – filelakeshoe (t / c)  13:23, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Eliel Vieira

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This article about a make-up artist consists mostly of lists of his clients. The article lacks independent, reliable sources writing about his work as a make-up artist. The sources used in this article are neither reliable nor independent. They are mostly brief mentions, don't mention him at all (cosmopolitan), or they are advertorials posing as tutorials, where an advertiser pays to receive a celebrity endorsement. That the celebrity in question has been manufactured by a marketing firm is not mentioned in the sources, who depend on advertising revenue from the cosmetic companies. Mduvekot (talk) 15:26, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable makeup artist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:02, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The article mentions several artists associated with him, but Notability is not inherited. Bolhones (talk) 20:19, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. SOFTDELETE per no participation herein other than from the nominator. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:40, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Destroy Babylon / I and I Survive

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The song fails song notability guidelines. (gsearch) DrStrauss talk 15:46, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 10:26, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Höyryklubi

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Fails WP:NMUSIC (gsearch). DrStrauss talk 15:41, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Unless there is something I don't realize, this would appear to fail Speedy A7. I'm not speedying it because it's a field where I do not feel competent. DGG ( talk ) 02:32, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@DGG: agreed but I've had a few speedies declined lately on grounds of article age. DrStrauss talk 09:03, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment this title is in Turkish language.this title should change to Höyry club also I cant find more reasonable references about thatMr.ref (talk) 15:14, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- It's in Finnish, not in Turkish. And the title can't be changed to "Höyry club" because it's the official name of the event. JIP | Talk 09:19, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) - 12:51, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. SOFTDELETE per no participation herein other than from the nominator. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:59, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Blood's Voice

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Highly advertorialized article about a YA-fantasy novel, not referenced to any reliable source coverage. The book's existence is sourced to its sales page on Amazon.com; the character content is sourced entirely to the author's own self-published content on her own website, and the critical reception is referenced entirely to amateur bloggers, not to professional reviews in reliable publications like Publishers Weekly or Kirkus or The New York Times. There's also a possible conflict of interest here, as the article was created by a WP:SPA editor who used the name of the novel's protagonist as their Wikipedia username -- although it's impossible to tell whether that points to a fan or to the author herself, it does still demonstrate that their intention was to advertise the book rather than to build an encyclopedia. Bearcat (talk) 15:11, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete and redirect to James Bond in film#Bond 25 (2019). There is clear consensus here that the topic is too speculative for a standalone article at the moment. Hut 8.5 20:44, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bond 25

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Delete/salt and redirect to James Bond in film#Bond 25 (2019). It clearly fails WP:NFF since filming has not begun. Point #5 of WP:CRYSTAL states "Wikipedia is not a collection of product announcements and rumors ... short articles that consist only of product announcement information are not appropriate. Until such time that more encyclopedic knowledge about the product can be verified, product announcements should be merged to a larger topic". Most of what is in the article at this point is a mix of Eon announcements and unsourced speculation, especially in the Lead (title, singer, etc.) BilCat (talk) 15:06, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to James Bond in film#Bond 25 (2019) (Are we only having this conversation because an IP decided to edit war to re-open a previous redirect?) Funnily enough I had the same conversation with SonOfThornhill and Prisonermonkeys on the Talk:Spectre (2015 film) page on ostensibly the same matter, and we came to the same decision about a redirect.

We had exactly the same discussion for the last film and the one before that. It's partly because the numbering is always suspect (this will be the 27th Bond film to be made, it's the 25th Eon film) but mostly per WP:NFF: "Films that have not been confirmed by reliable sources to have commenced principal photography should not have their own articles". On all the previous Bond films I've worked on (the last 3 or 4), we've waited until the press conference that launches the name and the main actors, before we launch the page with the correct name. - SchroCat (talk) 15:34, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, the page was first restored by a registered user, and then by an IP (possibly the same user). Rather than edit war, I decided an AFD was warranted, especially as it will allow future restorations to be eligible for CSD. - BilCat (talk) 15:49, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. Nothing has really happened on it yet. The whole article is just a bunch of announcements along with some speculation. And while the next James bond film may seem like a sure thing the series has had hiccups in the past, with the series being put on hiatus in the early 90s. So I agree with SchroCat: wait at least until it gets a title, and then create the article if there is sufficienct encyclopedic content. Betty Logan (talk) 15:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect: half the article is speculation; the other half appears to be original research. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 21:06, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect: I agree. Wait at least until the film is titled and starts filming. SonOfThornhill (talk) 23:14, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect fails WP:NFF; until filming is confirmed to have begun and the title is revealed. The redirect should also be fully protected to prevent further premature article creation. Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:39, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect As with the consensus, I believe it fails WP:NFF due to the fact that it is probably in pre-production and is frankly too far in the future to be certain if the movie will continue. In addition, the movie has no official title as of 29 August 2017 which makes the article completely unworthy of its own article. It is just a project name. Wait till the movies is shooting as confirmed and enough hard evidence on it notability comes up. For now, it is a future movie without a proper name. Dictonary1 (talk) 00:09, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comments - Oh dear! The creator also created Draft:Shatterhand, which has now been moved to mainspace as Shatterhand (film)! Facepalm I'm not touching it. - BilCat (talk) 04:59, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Draft:Bond 25 also exists, and predates all these other versions. - BilCat (talk) 05:09, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Oh dear. I've moved Shatterhand back to Drafts with a note on the talk page. If it is moved back across I'll nom for deletion and link it to this discussion. – SchroCat (talk) 06:04, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - @SchroCat — I'd send Shatterhand (film) to WP:RFD. It's a speculated title and they're a dime a dozen—I remember "The Emerald Sphere" being reported as a working title for what became Quantum of Solace. The only source I can find "reporting" Shatterhand is The Hindustan Times, and if production of Skyfall taught us anything it's that they're extraordinarily good at publishing misinformation. Also, I'd stop editing the Bond 25 article. The more crap we leave in there, the more likely it is to be deleted. Prisonermonkeys (talk) 10:59, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) J 947^{^{^{(c) (m)}}} 18:47, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Myanmar Plaza

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Seems like just another building to me. TheLongTone (talk) 14:39, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -To you, perhaps, but not to those in Myanmar. This page was requested by another user to be built. To my knowledge, Wikipedia is making efforts to be inclusive of non-English speaking countries and countries that are underrepresented. There are plenty of extra articles about Myanmar Plaza in the Burmese language, but I unfortunately cannot access them as I speak only English. I am hoping the page will be amended by those who are bilingual and can add to it. Brittney Tun

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Keep, building does have considerable coverage in Burmese and some coverage in English too. www.myanmarinsider.com/a-sneak-peak-inside-myanmar-plaza/. www.yangonlife.com.mm/en/directory/myanmar-plaza-shopping-center. www.mmtimes.com/business/17998-myanmar-plaza-open-for-business.html --Failosopher (talk) 15:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, Yes, and that link as well as many others are in the article. Brittney Tun —Preceding undated comment added 16:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable building in Myanmar should not be deleted unless there is support from locals which the proposer does not appear to be. Bkerensa (talk) 22:32, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: One of the largest shopping complex in Yangon with significant coverage in news. Phyo WP (message) 22:48, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: As per above comments. Ninja✮Strikers ^«☎» 03:01, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 01:03, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

2017 Clovis library shooting

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WP:NOTNEWS. Apologies if there is an appropriate speedy category. TheLongTone (talk) 14:34, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as WP:NOTNEWS. EvergreenFir (talk) 15:59, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This isn't a speedy situation. WP:RAPID is also in play - this isn't an event that is clearly not notable (it is covered quite widely by the international media) - a mass shooting (2 dead + injured) with a young suspect at library.Icewhiz (talk) 16:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep continuing wide international coverage on the 31st. Some BLP issues on incorporating part of them, but they still assert notability. LASTING is better assessed in the future.Icewhiz (talk) 17:51, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable, spree killing with widespread coverage. Juneau Mike (talk) 17:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Worldwide coverage, spree killing and of current international focus. Bkerensa (talk) 21:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - TheLongTone this was a good AfD but too many voters will ignore the WP:NOTNEWS aspect of it in favor of WP:RAPID. A fundamental flaw with their reasoning is they are basically asking editors to keep an unnotable article and hope it becomes notable. A better precedent would be to wait when a subject is actually notable then create an article. Revisit this in six months when RAPID cannot be used as a cop-out.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 21:27, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unsurprisingly a quick look at your contributions show you frequently jump on the pro-deletion bandwagon of terrorist attacks and this article should stay there is precedent in these type of articles with this degree of notability and coverage. Bkerensa (talk) 22:39, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bkerensa what precedent is that: your personal opinion? I enjoy jumping on the policy bandwagon; in this case, WP:NOTNEWS, WP:EVENTCRIT, WP:ROUTINE, and WP:LASTING among others I suggest you read. It may interest you to know that the incident is not being investigated as terrorism. Can you elaborate on "the degree" of notability with actual policies? WP:RECENTISM directs us to treat breaking news events and their corresponding media coverage differently than historical events.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 00:48, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note that this story is still developing, but that at the moment the AP is reporting that this was a spree shooting in which a youth walked into a library with a gun and murdered total strangers. WP:RAPID applies to creator and Nom, Creator would do better to source and expand the article, Nom ought to have waited until the police got a handle on what happened.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:07, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
keep ~~at least for now,~~ and give editors a chance to source it - and authorities and journalists chance to get the facts together.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:09, 30 August 2017 (UTC) Revising to just plain Keep; because coverage meets WP:NCRIME.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:07, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:recentism and WP:routine. This is an encyclopedia, not a new site. If it develops in to something significant re-create the article later. As the suspect is alive WP:BLP must also be adhered to. Sport and politics (talk) 19:19, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note that we do tend to keep spree shootings of strangers, and even work-related shootings like the 2017 Weis Markets shooting, also see Category:2017 mass shootings in the United States.E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:32, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article has no content as it currently stands, it is barely a paragraph long, this is a total waste of wikipedia server space as it currently stands, and Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of all news events. Sport and politics (talk) 22:34, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment It's "barely a paragraph" but it's a waste of server space? And how much server space would that be? A totally hyperbolic comment. Juneau Mike (talk) 06:15, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, sources indicate notability. Everyking (talk) 16:07, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a vote, a better level of explanation is needed, than it is because reasons. Sport and politics (talk) 16:44, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I gave an explanation. I don't need to write a whole paragraph about it. But if you want more of my opinions, OK: I think AfDs on major news events are ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time. A mass shooting is not a "routine" event of merely local significance—if it were, then it would be buried in the inside of a local newspaper and there wouldn't be a panoply of sources about it. Everyking (talk) 17:08, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article as it currently stands has three sources, the term mass shooting, is POV and not established here is 2 deaths and four injuries really a Mass Shooting? armed bank robberies can have more and they are not referred to as Bank Robbery and Mass Shooting. This is not a good article at all, and the event itself is generating little in the way of wide notability, to go beyond a news story. Sport and politics (talk) 17:20, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sport and politics, You misunderstand Wikipedia:Notability. The question is not whether the article is presently well-sourced, the question during AfD is: "whether a given topic warrants its own article. Moreover, Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:19, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct that deletion is not clean up, in this case the article in un-encyclopedic, and fails to meet notability for inclusion on Wikipedia. Simply waving about going KEEP KEEP KEEP to everything, turns this from an encyclopedia in to a news site, which Wikipedia most certainly is not. This article is a murder and not every murder goes on Wikipedia. Sport and politics (talk) 11:56, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bludgeon. Please do not respond to every comment made.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:05, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please make personal comments on personal user pages. Also please be aware of WP:boomerang Sport and politics (talk) 13:03, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep A mass shooting with multiple fatalities occurred at a public place. This is notable enough to have its own article supported by reliable sources WereWolf (talk) 12:09, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notable since multiple fatalities/injuries occurred because of this incident. This is Paul (talk) 18:40, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as clearly passes WP:NEVENTS with widespread coverage for this event. Greenbörg (talk) 10:50, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Are users aware of the existence of Wikinews. If not then please go find it because that is where this belongs. Sport and politics (talk) 10:55, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The way the article is typed up violates WP:NOTNEWS. If the shootings had multiple critical responses or some sort of legislative effect, I think the article would have been worth keeping under WP:LASTING. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 06:02, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete -- I'm going to go with a "delete" on this one. The article, as written, reads like a news report, even including the names of otherwise nn victims. It also contains content such as the killer's shouts of: “Run! Why aren’t you running? I’m shooting at you! Run!” This tells me that there's nothing better to include. As others have said, if this develops into something notable, someone would recreate the article. In the current form, this is not encyclopedic. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:05, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There's no shortage of coverage, what we're short of is editors. Grand Jury convenes day after tomorrow. Op-eds, feature stories starting to come in, granted I live on a different planet from the concealed carry state where this took place and where someone wrote an op-ed suggesting that there ought to be a law specifying "No concealed weapons in public libraries " [7].E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:58, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The way this article reads now is not conducive to what I'd say is a wiki-worthy article, but I believe with the right editors and right information, this article can stay, therefore I am sticking with keep, so long as information within the next 1 week that comes out as the grand jury convenes reads less like a news article. Definitely meets WP:Notability standards. Bryan C. W. (talk) 19:23, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I hate to write this, but two people killed in an American shooting is sadly all too common. Most lists of mass shootings don't even include them in the definition unless four people die with a few days. Bearian (talk) 23:33, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting point, certainly a high death toll correlates with widespread coverage. On the other hand, it is the distinction between killing multiple people that you are personally connected with (gang members, family) and indiscriminately shooting at strangers that makes a crime into a national headline, as here.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:16, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The article needs expansion, c/e etc. But that is not a reason for deletion. This is a notable subject.BabbaQ (talk) 06:32, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Notable my curvy pink. It made the newspapers; not the same thing.TheLongTone (talk) 13:12, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Continuing coverage more than two weeks after the event exists [8], demonstrates its notability. At the very least, it should be merged somewhere. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 00:52, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep sources indicate notability. Lepricavark (talk) 04:48, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 04:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

John Adams (Virginia)

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Unelected politician, not a GNG pass independently of political activity. Effectively a campaign biography for a forthcoming electoral race. Carrite (talk) 14:23, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unelected politicians are not notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:36, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. As yet unelected candidates for political office do not get Wikipedia articles just for being candidates — but all of the media coverage here is directly campaign-related, which means there's no evidence that he would have cleared a Wikipedia notability standard for any other reason independent of his candidacy. No prejudice against recreation on or after election day if he wins the election — but there's no evidence here that he passes any notability standard right now. Bearcat (talk) 19:15, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete; strongest argument for notability is that he's a still-unelected candidate for a statewide office; and that's not enough. TJRC (talk) 19:49, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as article creator. Meets WP:GNG with multiple in-depth profiles: Washington Post, Richmond Times-Dispatch, Fairfax Times, WRIC, etc. Instaurare (talk) 02:58, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Campaign-related coverage doesn't help get a candidate over WP:GNG in and of itself — if it did, then every candidate for anything would always pass GNG, because every candidate for anything always gets some campaign coverage. To get him an article before he wins the election, you would have to show that he had already received enough media coverage to clear GNG for other reasons completely independent of the candidacy. Bearcat (talk) 07:28, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Bearcat. The standard for evaluating an un-elected candidate for a state-wide office is WP:NPOL and while the race for Attorney General may be notable, the candidates may not necessarily be per WP:BLP1E (see WP:POLOUTCOMES). --Enos733 (talk) 19:23, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the title of article is not suitable due to the title should write for example John Adams (his career) but was written by name of town.Mr.ref (talk) 15:18, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per everyone here; it's clear based on discussion at WP:VPP there's a consensus against keeping articles on candidates whose primary claim of notability is being a candidate in a down-ballot state-level race. Power~enwiki (talk) 00:56, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Despite the very impressive puppetry by single purpose accounts. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 06:23, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kelly Richey

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

As an artist musician this has failed for BLP. Biographer has personal knowledge of the subject. no connection to Arista Records whatsoever. no connection to Lonnie Mack whatsoever. --12.38.238.66 (talk) 11:44, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

— 12.38.238.66 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Keep - Completing nomination on behalf of IP. Above text was copied from article talk page. As for my own view, previous nomination from 2011 was a clear keep, and more sources are easily found. Easily passes WP:GNG. --Finngall ^talk 14:10, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - 1) No link supports biographers clams of subjects early life. All links are toward a periodical but nothing supporting claim. 2) No link or evidence of career joining Arista Records. Biographer appears to have personal knowledge of equipment as in "1963 body and 1965 neck, pick-up, amp and effects". No supporting Links Whatsoever. This page has problems with verifiability from reliable sources and does meet the Wikipedia Criteria for speedy Deletion.Ifyouwill (talk) 16:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ifyouwill: Question - Are you the same person as the IP above? --Finngall ^talk 16:28, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What? Ifyouwill (talk) 15:21, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

— Ifyouwill (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Keep – (responding to IP request on my talk page) On the surface, I don't see why this is nominated for deletion. She has a AllMusic bio,[9] which also has four album reviews, and is mentioned in blues journals like Living Blues, Blues Review, etc. (these refs could be added). 12.38.238.66, Ifyouwill, and 174.97.1.181 (who requested my comment) appear to be WP:Single-purpose accounts and I question their motives here. I'll change to "delete" if someone gives some better reasons. —Ojorojo (talk) 15:50, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The apparent SPA edting here is still bothersome. Additionally, their arguments are not based on WP:MUSICBIO, which lists several notability criteria for music. Having releases on a major record label is not the sole criterion (they keep arguing about Arista) if the artist meets others, e.g., #1. —Ojorojo (talk) 14:22, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Please look more closely Ojorojo. There is no verifiable reference for connection to a major record label on Allmusic ether. All recordings listed there are self-produced. WP:NPOV No connection to Arista Records can be found. Motive is Truth 174.97.1.181 (talk) 18:23, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Google can be used for searches other than the name of the topic. For example ["Kelly Richey" Arista], shows that Kelly Richey "started touring in 1986 with a band on Arista records called Stealin' Horses". The problem as stated for Arista can be fixed with editing. The deletes also correctly note that the article contains some material that does not have inline citations and appears to not be verifiable. Again, the problem as stated can be fixed with editing. As per WP:Editing policy, fixable problems are not reasons for deletion. Unscintillating (talk) 23:26, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, *Stealin' Horses* was a single solo album and had Mandy Meyer, Steve Lukather and Danny Kortchmar on Electric Guitars. In case you can't find Danny Kortchmar, he's on G.E. Smith's website. Danny played for James Taylor and Carol King and many more but you don't have a wiki page for him! While no one named Kelly nor Richey sang or played a single solo note on Arista Records Stealin' Horses or anything else Arista Records! Not a Signed Artist to Arista! More to come...174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:04, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Was it too much trouble to do the Google search I provided? The 3rd snippet states, "Kelly Richey, an American blues rock guitarist, singer, and composer ... joining Stealin' Horses in 1986, the band was signed to Arista records." The 7th snippet states, "At 23, Richey joined Arista band Stealin' Horses, and she toured and". The 8th states, "produced by Kiya Heartwood, of the '90s band Stealin' Horses, which was on the Arista label." The 9th and last states, "Shortly after joining Stealin' Horses in 1986, the band was signed to Arista records." Unscintillating (talk) 00:24, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You Unscintillating. http://waddywachtelinfo.com/StealinHorses.html no kelly richey here ether 174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:55, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
One more note Unscintillating. As you can see from the Waddy Wachtel info Arista released that album 1885, not later. She is not on the record and has never been signed to a Major Record Label as her Wikibio States! This is the beginning of a deep credibility issue 174.97.1.181 (talk) 01:34, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
as a kid I was a janitor for Bill Graham. I met Richie Furay and he invited me to play with him. I did for a while but that does not make me a member of his record company. The record company did not sign Kelly Richey or me. I have a phone call into Jim O'Neal and am waiting on a return call to verify if Living Blues Magazine ever did a review or write-up on anything Kelly Richey. If she has been reviewed by a writer in LB I will apologize to Ojorojo and Unscintillating for dragging yous into it and I’ll vote "keep".174.97.1.181 (talk) 01:53, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I see what you did on your google Unscintillating Ok, Ok, I’ll try this again. Stealin horses did “One" Album for Arista, Solo, Single (1). Released in 1985. Other albums were produced and released independently. Not Arista nor Clive Davis or any other Major Record Label. The label dropped them. Kelly Richey has never been associated with Arista, Clive Davis or a Major Label. It's all debunked by it's timeline. Please find one Arista record anyplace that has Kelly Richey on it. Bet you can't! Anyway, Clive was kinda busy with Whitney Houston back then. 174.97.1.181 (talk) 02:35, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: This is based on WP:NPOV and WP:BLP with due diligence. Ifyouwill Unscintillating Ojorojo Finngall 12.38.238.66 I called Jim O'Neal from Living Blues Magazine and asked them to search for any “Reviews" or “Short Take’s" for Kelly Richey. I received a return phone call from Melanie of LBM Oxford MS. Nothing was found in their Data Base on Kelly Richey or Kelly Ritchie. As I suspected, a quality magazine with their high standards has never reviewed Kelly Richey. Also have had a response from Peter Edge office of Sony Music that acquired RCA that Acquired Arista and no Artist in their data base was budgeted or promoted named Kelly Richey. The subject in question is self-produced, self-titled amateur music production, self-published for a self-named label WP:MUSICBIO. A biographer that made claim that Kelly Richey was a Major Recording Artist failed. This page is not properly sourced and the Inline citations WP:CS are also bogus! Edits won’t fix this page. WP:BLP glad to help and was nice getting in touch 174.97.1.181 (talk) 21:11, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

— 174.97.1.181 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

And Here is the other Stealin Horses record on Waldoxy Records. http://www.allmusic.com/album/mesas-and-mandolins-mw0000664298/credits Kelly Richey is NOT listed on the credits for guitars or vocals on this one ether. Does anybody get this? TRUTH 174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:18, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Again, looked up all the Kiya Heartwood of Stealin Horses solo records, and Kelly Richey is not credited on any of them ether. Incidentally Kiya also does not even have a wikipage. Wishing Chair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishing_Chair 174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:39, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep: Wow, 174.97.1.181, you really, really, really want to delete this page! Regardless of your efforts, your persuasiveness is weakened by editing from an IP address rather than a proper profile. So is your mostly SPA edit history. They raise red flags among veteran editors and administrators who will likely question your motives and investigate you for sock-puppetry. That aside, there is indeed a lot of self-promotional verbiage here, mostly from the subjects own website. Yes, the sort of puffery you are exposing is a re-occurring problem on wikipedia. Claims of being with a major label with only the slightest, tangential connection is classic resume padding. (The type I notice most often is the insistence a non-notable subsidiary of a major label is the same as being on a major label, but I digress.)

Allmusic profiles are especially bothersome. Once upon a time an Allmusic listing meant something, acknowledging recording artists with worthy track records. Ever since the company was acquired by the Rovi database in 2011 it has become a collecting ground of information on simply anything in their database that is for sale—in essence providing profiles for something that proves existence only. (and I don’t think anyone will argue this artist doesn’t exist.) Nonetheless, a profile there is still held up as a gold standard source among AfD editors who don’t bother to dig deeper. Having said all that, there is the undeniable matter of this subject’s somewhat extensive coverage in local (i.e. Cincinnati region) media. These indeed add up to likely notability. I’m voting weak keep, however, because these are nearly all dead links, making my efforts to verify them impossible. My independent search finds interviews and promo-ish type content, or—such as the Guitar Player reference—something trivial in nature but half-notable for the mere recognition by such an authoritative source. The subject’s own website touts additional coverage not cited in this article. Reviews of her work are in abundance among smaller, niche sources. Bottom line: this is truly a borderline ivote, My experience of investigating many AfD nominations suggest this is someone at the very lowest possible level of notability on a common sense level, but squeaks through per wikipedia’s more broadly defined criteria. ShelbyMarion (talk) 14:11, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi ShelbyMarion, Thank You, really, really, really are redundant intensifiers even with the italic on the third. WoW, As to my non-participating in wiki because could be it is new to me. Can a nobody from the sideline point out the truth? As for motive “If everybody Lies the truth becomes unimportant". Motive frankly, It’s as I said. “TRUTH". I don’t care if I have a 10Million edit account because this is about truth and nothing but the truth. This is a "Biography of a Living Person" that I am certain Could Uses it as a promotional tool. Like you said Allmusic is not really screening their source, so it’s kinda pay to play (P2P), yet I have inquired. Allmusic is the only generator of the Major Record Label fallacy. You Know, I have been burnt and have seen "Used Car Salesmen" and "Real Estate Agents” that should be jailed for this type of misrepresentation. Ojorojo states, "just add one of her many reviews from Living Blues". So, I knew how to reach them and I went to the mountain and you know what I found? Never Happened. ShelbyMarion, would you like me to Contact Guitar Player Magazine to see if they have ever reviewed Kelly Richey? They may have because it’s not the same kinda rag as LBM. (P2P) As of now, I can’t find anything to link her to GPM other than her website. So, I won’t change my thought’s along these lines after I did this exercise in police research. I have discovered that good school’s won’t let their students use wiki as a reference, but I digress. Using wiki to spread lies is not a crime that I am aware of. If you want to buy a used car or an old house, I’m who you want with you! "research and results” all I attempted to do is debunk or discredit the first line in the Bio. I believe I accomplished that and more. "To whom know’s the truth or not, no one can not make another acknowledge it." Me, Myself and I * 174.97.1.181 (talk) 22:05, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The IPs attempt to mischaracterize my comments just further underscores the problems with their arguments here. I wrote "She has a AllMusic bio, which also has four album reviews, and is mentioned in blues journals like Living Blues, Blues Review, etc. (these refs could be added)" (my emphasis). I did not "state" or imply "just add one of her many reviews from Living Blues". She is mentioned in connection to a song in Living Blues (p. 57),[10] album reviews in Blues Review,[11][12], Modern Drummer[13], and Big City Blues Magazine.[14] I am not saying that this plus AllMusic, etc., adds up to satisfying MUSICBIO #1, but I am not reading any credible arguments that they don't. Of course, we could all just settle for THE TRUTH as expounded by three SPAs who just happened to show up on the same AfD for an article that has had only a few maintenance edits in the last five years. —Ojorojo (talk) 23:06, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I haven’t mischaracterized your comments Ojorojo. What you have shown could be proper inline reference. Kelly Richey’s with the ('s) is my guess why LBM couldn’t find it. It’s not a review or a short take and that’s what I had them search. She’s still not associated with a Major Record Label as the page states. So that is a fallacy. Whoever wrote the bios on Allmusic/Wiki said she is associated with a major label. Please would you hunt for evidence of that? Even Kiya Heartwood that landed that record deal doesn’t associate herself with Arista Records. I can not find evidence of Kelly Richey ever playing with Stealin Horses. Stealin’ Horses Bios on Allmusic Mention Kelly Richie a couple of times yet, Stealin” Horses has a few Guitar Players that are "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame” inductees that aren’t mentioned in it. Doesn’t that seem curious to you? And Allmusic bios are the only place. 174.97.1.181 (talk) 00:32, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947^{^{^{(c) (m)}}} 18:46, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

more, I see you went on an editing spree adding pages to support weak content from who knows who. Lots a work for an impartial editor!
This is a Biography of a Living Person. Does anybody think it should be notable without using substandard interviews? The new thing that replaced the other is really weak. Here is an interview from who knows who about someone stating something in the interview that can not be verified. What we have here: Lacks support, has no integrity.
If she worked in Nashville and “Joined" the Major Record Label band and toured a year as she said, I would think there should be a Contract with the Musicians Union. Local 257
Think about this Example: Dave Matthews of the Dave Mathews Band also "Sat-In" with the performers that came trough the club where he was a bartender in Virginia circa 1986. 15 years later after selling millions upon millions of records he could sell out practically every venue on the planet. I'd consider that worthy of a wikipage. Example: Bill Bartlett among other things did "Black Betty" another artist sold millions of records and his wiki page was taken down. Really, I still say: Failed. 174.97.1.181 (talk) 09:54, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - More than enough coverage to justify an article. Robman94 (talk) 02:47, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The so-called "personal knowledge" (ie, the details about the guitar and strings) referenced by 12.38.238.66 and Ifyouwill comes directly from the Guitar Player magazine interview with Richey. Furthermore, the edit history of both Ifyouwill and 174.97.1.181 suggest that they are the same person. Finally, an iplocation.net look-up shows that IP 174.97.1.181 comes from Cincinnati, OH which is coincidentally the same location that Richey is from, suggesting that the IP knows the subject and may add light on why they appear to have such a personal ax to grind against the subject. Robman94 (talk) 15:10, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - That link didn't work for me. So, anyway; Why is Kiya Heartwood listed and was a member in the Nashville Musicians Association Local 257 and Kelly Richey is not, and was not? Do you think she was on tour as a member of that band and went on a stage without membership? Ask Nashville Musicians Association (tel: 615-244-9514) 174.97.1.181 (talk) 21:05, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What exactly are you trying to say? Are you suggesting that Richey was never a member of Stealin Horses? If so, how do you explain this publicity photo, with their names under their pictures no less? As for the link that doesn't work for you (but works for me), here's a quote:

To say that Richey has bonded with her guitar is an understatement. “I’ve had this Strat for more than 20 years,” she laughs. “It has been the one constant in my life, and it never leaves my side. It’s a magical instrument-my friends say I’ll be buried with it. It has a ‘65 neck and a ‘63 body, but there’s nothing original except the wood and the knobs. When I was young and stupid, I got rid of the pickups because I wanted the ones that didn’t buzz. I even cut a big hole in the body and installed a Kahler whamm!! Now I have a traditional trem pulled flush to the body with four springs, so I really have to push on the bar to make it work. The neck has big frets-which I love-and the pickguard is wired with Duncan Classic Stack pickups and new pots. I use S.I.T. Strings-gauged .010-.046- which I change every night because I play so hard. And, thanks to Joe Walsh, I use a .60mm nylon Dunlop pick. He showed me how to get more traction on each note by using the fat, textured end of these picks instead of their points. I’m not a strong fingerpicker, but I use my middle and ring fingers in conjunction with my pick all the time. When the music gets quiet, and I want to pull more out of each note, I’ll put the pick between my middle and index fingers and play lead with my fingertips.” Robman94 (talk) 23:45, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank You, that promo photo Verified Kelly Richie wasn't on Arista when it was taken. She was with that band after the Major Record Label drop them! So we can close that element for good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:A000:1303:4143:1835:814A:96A3:5D78 (talk) 00:23, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

— 2605:A000:1303:4143:1835:814A:96A3:5D78 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I am curious how an un-dated photo proves that, but no matter, if your point is that she didn't record for Arista, I have no argument and I took the mention of Arista out of the article a while ago. If you want to know what really happened, read this article. But, none of that explains your delete !vote and the level of effort that you are putting forward to get this article deleted, so why don't you come clean and be honest about what you're real gripe with her is? Robman94 (talk) 01:00, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I did a lot of work for the truth. WP:BLP Read or re-read what is here. I am curious how you have that weird scanned pic too! More of the truth according to who? Somebody said all "records companies are evil”? That"s what really happened? thanks again 2605:A000:1303:4143:945E:B1E8:E72A:7EF9 (talk) 06:45, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The promo photo you pictured Robman94 is somewhat distorted. From what I can read it isn't the band Stealin' Horses. It has the names of the lady players. That helps make the case; "did't play with Stealin' Horses". WP:BLPNOTE The sources are not reliable. 64.134.166.188 (talk) 03:06, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

— 64.134.166.188 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Comment - A truly notable person WP:BLP: Elizabeth McQueen ,vocalist, has no wikipedia article. She plays great guitar and sang lead for Asleep at the Wheel for eight years. Won a Grammy Award for Sitting on Top of the World with Willie Nelson . She does a radio show on KTUX Austin every Saturday morning. You’d learn a lot to listen! Quit touring for their kids! Remarkable Person! 64.134.166.188 (talk) 03:34, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) - 14:36, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Adequate indicia of notability as a musician. Montanabw^(talk) 18:47, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The articles that are supporting comments are faux interviews in unreliable non-published online page. Failed. 66.80.125.178 (talk) 00:53, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

— 66.80.125.178 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic, except for vandalism edits which have been reverted.

Keep, despite the efforts of the SPA editors and IP's, clearly meets WP:GNG. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 21:06, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Onel5969 With all due respect. WP:NEXIST. Where did you verify that she played with Stealin' Horses? Her Interviews? 69.61.204.118 (talk) 00:33, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Meets WP:CSD WP:BLP see: Reliable sources 69.61.204.118 (talk) 00:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:25, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good Guys Finish First

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The claim of notability seems absurdly niche. TheLongTone (talk) 14:09, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bestsellers list reference says #42. Comes without a review. Two reviews on Amazon, one by a friend of the author. Amazon ranking #2,072,877. Rhadow (talk) 15:11, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete doesn't meet WP:NBOOK. Power~enwiki (talk) 03:08, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Seems to fail WP:NBOOK and WP:GNG; no sources seemed to be available, though this was somewhat confounded by a song with a similar title. --Hazarasp (talk) 11:58, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. bd2412 T 21:54, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Power & Communication Contractors Association

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Non-notable organisation. WP:BEFORE checks reveal no independent coverage per WP:NORG. DrStrauss talk 13:22, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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delete fails WP:GNG. nothing in gnews. LibStar (talk) 02:02, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Would also seem to fit speedy A7. But was a proper search made under WP:BEFORE?GoogleNews alone is not sufficient. DGG ( talk ) 02:41, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

gbooks just has directory listings. LibStar (talk) 04:00, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, WP:BEFORE has been done. DrStrauss talk 09:04, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Somewhat surprisingly, searches do not turn up any significant third-party coverage. There are some mentions in directories and congressional hearings, but these mentions are in passing. The association does not appear to meet the general notability guidelines for inclusion in Wikipedia. Malinaccier (talk) 20:18, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 16:57, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

List of Progressive Web Apps

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Article is merely a list of web apps (with accompanying external links), not all of which have Wikipedia articles. Wikipedia is not a links directory. ... discospinster _talk 13:13, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Although I created the article, the list of PWAs was not collected by myself but rather just taken from the article about PWAs itself, where it did not fit and was not formatted at all. There, the list was added by an anonymous user in June (see diff). I removed some links which were rather spam than informative and added the scores in the PWA audit of some of the websites. However, I totally see discospinster's point that the list is still rather a link directory at the moment. The optimal solution in my opinion would be to expand the article by adding all the specific web technologies used in each PWA as a separate column to have an overview what makes them special. This should be done by a web expert. The inferior alternative (again in my opinion) would be to reintegrate the list into the original article. To avoid the clutter like it has been before, the table should then be collapsed by default. In a nutshell, I am for Keeping the list - preferred as separate article but at least reintegrated into the original article again. Chstdu (talk) 14:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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If none of the entries are notable, why should we list them? Maybe there's an informational value there, I don't know, but there's also the option of just having RS-supported examples integrated into the prose of the parent article. postdlf (talk) 16:51, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete, firstly for WP:NOTLINKFARM, secondly because none of the list entries have articles therefore their notability is not established (and cannot be from this list article), thirdly using words "progressive" in the title of the list article without any clear list criteria would consititute as original research. Ajf773 (talk) 20:10, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just some short comments/clarifications on your last two arguments: 2. The list entries are not thought to be notable, because they are rather technical examples for good programming style, e.g., the first list entry "The Air Horner" (which is one of the standard PWA examples) does nothing more than playing a sound on clicking. The PWA audit score by Google's lighthouse shows how "good" these examples are. 3. The term "progressive" does not refer to anything political or debatable in this context. It rather means that the website offers a valid web app manifest file (see Google developer or Progressive web app or the W3C working draft for details). Chstdu (talk) 12:40, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I get where the term "progressive is used for the purposes of this article" but my first argument of WP:NOTLINKFARM still stands. Ajf773 (talk) 19:43, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 12:02, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete -- fails WP:LISTN for lack of sources that discuss them as a group. A non encyclopedic collection of information. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:17, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

delete seems like this could be easily incorporated into the Progressive web apps page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Egaoblai (talk • contribs) 05:15, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 09:19, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Robotronic Squad

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Fails WP:BAND. DrStrauss talk 13:13, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no reliable references and none of the members appear to be notable. Power~enwiki (talk) 00:58, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:07, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Faisal Al-Medlij

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Does not meet WP:NPOL, WP:GNG or any other part of WP:NOTABILITY. Boleyn (talk) 13:03, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Meets WP:NPOL as the subject is an elected chairman/president of Kuwait Economic Association, which is a national office that is involved in politics/economy-related decision making. Added 4 additional independent sources to assure meeting WP:GNG. --Aaehasa (talk) 14:20, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails [WP:PROF]]; head of a NN NGO. Those sources don't convince me. Bearian (talk) 13:51, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Bearian. How do sources fail WP:PROOF? Sources #2 through #7 and #9 are mainstream newspapers, which are Al-Qabas, Al-Anba_(Kuwait), Al_Rai_(Kuwaiti_newspaper), Al-Jarida, Al-Seyassah and Annahar_(Kuwait). Sources #1 and #8, in the other hand, are linked to the official website of the association the subject is a head of. --Aaehasa (talk) 12:15, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete if the board lacks an aritcle, being its chairman is not enough to make one notable. Sources do not establish notability, and being part of some board in and of itself does not make one notable.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:19, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Johnpacklambert. You have a point, the association must have an article and it is on my to-do list as appears on my user page. However, do you really think lack of an article of a "notable" association should prevent its chairman from passing WP notability guidelines? Notability isn't time-sensitive to what comes first into WP, is it? --Aaehasa (talk) 09:01, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Deal with any Promo issue by improving the article. (non-admin closure) Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) - 19:35, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Joel Breton

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This whole article reads like an advertisement for Breton's career. Most of the article is written by two accounts that have nothing but Joel Breton edits (BilboBaggins77 and Spacecaser). Previous edits by BilboBaggins77 claimed that he was a cosmonaut, an international super producer and that he produced various notable games such as Duke Nukem, Quake, Unreal and Doom but these claims don't hold upon closer inspection. He has worked on couple of moderately successful games, but I wouldn't call him a notable contributor to the industry. WP:GNG possible WP:SPIP Rusentaja (talk) 12:55, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete a personal bio of a non-notable person. Power~enwiki (talk) 02:50, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep - The list of game credits is impressive; a couple of the links, ostensibly to Wayback Machine, are most unimpressive. The nominator is concerned with (a) the tone of the piece, which is an editing matter and not a notability matter; and (b) the fact that single purpose editors have been involved, which is likewise not a valid reason for deletion. I therefore favor keeping on procedural grounds, since no valid rationale for deletion has been presented. Carrite (talk) 04:06, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the games on his Gameography are of low notability. It consists mostly of console ports, flash games, spinoff games and level packs, none of which have garnered much attention. Most notable game on his list is Unreal, but even then he worked as an associate producer for GT Interactive, the publisher of the game. I'd still say there's a notability issue. Rusentaja (talk) 19:22, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Joel Breton is an American game producer who has produced many award-winning games throughout his career including, the first version of Unreal and the first Unreal Engine - version 1.0, Duke Nukem: Land of the Babes, an original 3rd person game developed for the PlayStation platform, Pirates of the Caribbean, Bomberman Live -- the only N. American developed Bomberman game in history which is also the highest rated version in the franchise, Terraria, Payday 2, Sniper Elite 2, Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons, and he pioneered free-to-play console gaming when he designed and launched Gems of War and Battle Islands on PS4 and XBO. Breton is a frequent keynote speaker at global developer conferences such as Game Developer's Conference 2017 where he was a speaker for 3 sessions [15], VRX Summit[16], Wireless Influencers 2016 [17], Japan Virtual Reality Summit[18]. He is currently the President of Vive Studios, HTC's content development and publishing division where he oversees development of more than 30 games through the development process from initial concept to global launch [19]. Breton is a key spokesperson for HTC Vive, and he is frequently interviewed by global media outlets for his viewpoint on AAA gaming, virtual reality gaming, video game publishing, and video game development. [20], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25][26]. Breton is also responsible for bringing two of the largest video game franchises to Virtual Reality in 2017, Fallout 4 VR from Bethesda Game Studios [27], and L.A. Noir from Rockstar Games [28], [29]. This article should be updated with additional information outlined here. ````Spacecaser — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spacecaser (talk • contribs) 15:50, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 21:35, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Kulide o' Scope

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Fails WP:BAND. Quite promotional too. DrStrauss talk 12:47, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per source searches, does not meet WP:GNG or WP:BAND. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:04, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per above. Article has no references except MySpace and Google search returns nothing. Power~enwiki (talk) 21:24, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 21:03, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tahoka Freeway

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Band doesn't appear to be notable per WP:BAND. There's quite a bit of WP:PROMO as well. DrStrauss talk 12:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no hits, no TV, no radio airplay, no national tours. Definitely fails WP:BAND Rogermx (talk) 15:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was withdrawn. Changed my mind re the rationales in the keep votes. (non-admin closure) DrStrauss talk 20:41, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hatano Jazz Band

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Fails WP:BAND. No independent coverage in reliable sources. DrStrauss talk 12:42, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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* Wikipedia:WikiProject Jazz notified. AllyD (talk) 14:40, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I see no indication that this band recorded (unsurprising given its era) but there are enough English language book references (now added to the article) indicating its primacy in its field which I think meets WP:BAND criteria 1 and 7. AllyD (talk) 15:12, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I've added a bit more from a couple of sources. A combination of criteria 1 and (oddly, perhaps) 4 looks fine. EddieHugh (talk) 16:31, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:17, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Danny Wan

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The coverage is what you would expect for a local councillor. He doesn't meet WP:NPOL or WP:GNG. Being the first openly gay local councillor for a city doesn't make you notable. Boleyn (talk) 12:33, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. While Oakland is a large and prominent enough city that its municipal councillors might clear the bar if they could be significantly substanced and well-sourced as significantly more notable than the norm for that level of significance, it is not in the narrow range of cities where the councillors are automatically presumed notable under WP:NPOL. Of the 15 sources shown here, 12 are primary sources or blogs that cannot assist notability, leaving us with just three pieces of actual media coverage — but those three pieces of media coverage are purely local and routine. And no, being the first openly LGBT person to hold an otherwise non-notable office isn't a notability freebie, either — we do not automatically hand notability to every individual city's first woman, first LGBT or first person of colour to get elected to the city council, if their sourceability is otherwise this poor. Bearcat (talk) 19:11, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete the coverage is way below the level needed to show notability for a member of a city council.John Pack Lambert (talk) 06:14, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:07, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Trepanga

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Fails WP:BAND. Little WP:SIGCOV in WP:IRS. DrStrauss talk 12:32, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – Per source searches, does not meet WP:BAND or WP:GNG. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:19, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:13, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Në ato maja rripa-rripa

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Fails WP:NMUSIC. DrStrauss talk 12:30, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus is that this organization does not meet the general notability guidelines for inclusion in Wikipedia. Malinaccier (talk) 19:11, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Massachusetts Seniors Squash Rackets Association

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Fails WP:NORG and WP:GNG. DrStrauss talk 12:28, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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20-Mule-Team Delete: Seriously? Completely unreferenced, never has been referenced, has had the same form, format and rankings for nine years (are all of those players even still alive?), no sources on Google except for this article and Wiki mirrors. Far from being "generally regarded as the top level of squash competition for senior citizens in Massachusetts" (whom by, exactly?), I'm wondering if this outfit even exists, something fueled by that the creation of this article was the sole Wikipedia activity of the editor who did so. Ravenswing 14:40, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete this is a classic example of what happens when no notability controls exist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:06, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. The only editor arguing to keep is the article's creator, who states on their user page they are a civil air patrol member, and thus have a WP:COI. This doesn't disqualify them from commenting here, but it does seem that they're too close to the subject to give a truly dispassionate evaluation. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:49, 30 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

New York City Group, Civil Air Patrol

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This article has only one reference from a site not controlled by the subject. It appears to be promotional.
The text is not encyclopedic. It does not describe why this unit is notable in a general sense. Parade participation and one article about an event in 2001 are likely not enough.
Its emphasis is on the personnel involved, not on the group.
With some work, I trust the article could be improved to be a great Wikipedia article. Rhadow (talk) 12:06, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The nomination was placed at the article's talk page; I have copied it here verbatim, and will complete the other steps to list the debate. No comment on the merits, except that the article should probably be renamed if kept. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 13:44, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am in the process of finding more citations and references as we go. This group is truly historic as it is the administrative echelon of the largest city in the state and by far the most diverse city in the US. It also serves as the echelon that serves one of the first areas that Civil Air Patrol began it's services in 1941, at the high of the war. Coastal Patrols for a time were headquartered in the area that this unit commands. I urge fellow wiki writers to keep this article up and, if possible, use your experience and resources to help keep the page running. Thank YouCfuentes1421 (talk) 03:01, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not opposed to keeping the article in principle, but it does need a major overhaul to make it no longer sound like a promotional material. For example, the "Current commander" section is nothing but a resume and absolutely needs to go. Et0048 (talk) 18:39, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder WP:NCORP "As a general rule, the individual chapters of national and international organizations are usually not considered notable enough to warrant a separate article – unless they are substantially discussed by reliable independent sources that extend beyond the chapter's local area." Rhadow (talk) 19:37, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The sole notable referenced incident (photography of 9/11) was accomplished by members of the Long Island Group, temporarily seconded by the New York unit. Rhadow (talk) 11:37, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, promotional; can be recreated by a neutral editor. Sandstein 10:27, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable chapter of national organization. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:29, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus is clearly in favour of deletion, owing to e.g concerns about the reliability of most sources and that the topic hasn't had their research widely covered by reliable sources. In addition, the keep !votes appear to mostly come from single purpose accounts and rely too much on anecdotal and unreliable (Facebook followers) evidence. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:22, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nassim Haramein

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Created as an apparent fan biography by users who, going by the talk page, do not seem to understand Wikipedia BLP rules on sourcing. The current version is after serious culling of the bad sourcing; here's (what I think was) the first live version and here's a reference check I did; it was a tissue of primary sources and puffery. A source check finds coverage in non-RSes, but nothing indicating actual RS notability as a physicist or in general terms. Please also check the talk page discussion. David Gerard (talk) 11:55, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. The sourcing problems here are insurmountable. While I'd personally heard of him, and think it's an interesting enough case due to his followers, there just hasn't been enough written/reported in secondary sources to make this feasible. --Deacon Vorbis (talk) 12:07, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: clearly fails WP:GNG. This article has been around the block 3 times and the current version has been here since June, but still the best source that we find is a paragraph in Hollywood Reporter about a crowdfunded documentary. When there are multiple, independent, reliable sources that discuss the subject directly and in detail, we can talk again. --Slashme (talk) 13:19, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Technically it was created in AFC in June and only went live a weekish ago - David Gerard (talk) 15:22, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Agree with the above, better sources are needed. Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 13:29, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:FRINGE and secondarily WP:PROF. Pseudo-physics can be a worthy subject of an article, if it's attracted enough attention and discussion in reliable sources (ECE theory comes to mind, for example), but this doesn't reach that level. I had at first thought that the documentary might be more notable than the person, but on closer investigation, the movie doesn't appear notable either. XOR'easter (talk) 15:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Haramein has a very well-funded PR machinery (including the crowd-funded documentary) that presents him as if he is revolutionising the heart of physics, and an evangelical following that promotes this narrative. As others have said, this is kind of interesting in itself, but it hasn't yet made enough of a splash to be notable. Personally I would like there to be some kind of page here that could document the absurdities of his physics claims, the lack of recognition by the physics community and the total absence of his 15+ years of research in any of the standard huge collections of trusted physics content. I think this would help counter the mythology. But a Wikipedia bio clearly isn't a suitable place to document an absence of validity or recognition. – Bobathon71 (talk) 19:59, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete to pile on and further drive the point home, per above. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:27, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No WP:RS, no evidence of WP:Notability. Haramein gets only the booby prize for creativity, using crowd funding to support a "documentary" on his dubious work. Wikipedia is not improved by including this bio of a poser. Cheers! Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 19:24, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- ~~Keep~~ Wow, "bio of a poser", glad to see we're being so democratic here. Again, what are your credentials in the physics community to say who is a poser or not? Plus, YES, plenty of evidence of notability, you are just choosing to ignore it...Poolshark9 (talk) 17:10, 5 September 2017 (UTC) poolshark9[reply]
Keep I am a PhD physicist and have heard Nassim Haramein’s theories discussed in many physics meetings and conferences. I have followed his work for many years and his physics is sound. His work is always ahead of the times and is continuously corroborated by the leading physicists such as Stephen Hawking and Leonard Susskind. As well, his notability is evident from the numerous books, movies and articles that mention him.-2600:1012:B147:2E9:217B:49FC:B65D:C215 (talk) 19:00, 4 September 2017 (UTC)— 2600:1012:B147:2E9:217B:49FC:B65D:C215 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Could you please provide any reliable source(s) supporting your assertion that, "Nassim Haramein’s theories discussed in many physics meetings and conferences"? And also any reliable source(s) that his work has been "corroborated by the leading physicists such as Stephen Hawking and Leonard Susskind"? If that information can be verified, it could be added to the article, and if not, your argument above becomes irrelevant. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 20:25, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Haramein treats nucleons as mini black holes in his holographic mass solution which Hawking has been theorizing about since 1971 https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article-lookup/doi/10.1093/mnras/152.1.75 and has since been corroborated by Leonard Susskind (one of the founders of the holographic principle). For instance, in his lecture for ER=EPR, he states “…there is no sharp separation between particles and black holes…” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBPpRqxY8Uw&t=5822s at 1:35:45. Throughout the years, I have followed Nassim Haramein’s work which he has presented at numerous conferences including the American Physical Society and more recently the Royal Society. Haramein would have been involved in numerous discussions at these physics conferences, which I was privy to some. However, they were informal and so unfortunately there is no record. Therefore, like the other commenters on this discussion for deletion page - all I can offer is my opinion. If my argument is irrelevant than so is that of the other comments in this discussion for deletion page. - 2600:1012:B147:2E9:217B:49FC:B65D:C215 (talk) 00:53, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You may have misunderstood what I meant by providing reliable sources. The lecture by Susskind and the 1971 paper by Hawking are primary sources, from which you have concluded they corroborated Haramein’s theories. This is a synthesis, your own conclusion, not something published by a secondary source stating that theories of Hawking and Susskind agreed with Haramein’s work. It's not that your opinion is irrelevant, but that the conclusions you have drawn are not published by independent, secondary, reliable sources, the standard required here. Without such sources to back your argument, it is irrelevant to the discussion. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 03:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's the corroboration that never stops. An endless, perpetual, continuous corroboration. A cosmic background corroboration permeating all of spacetime. You can’t point to it because it’s everywhere. Like the Higgs field. It's a remarkable phenomenon. :/ Bobathon71 (talk) 11:40, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A retrocausal corroboration that reaches back in time to 1971, forming a closed timelike curve that no heretical opinions can interrupt. XOR'easter (talk) 16:03, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Harameins work is published in peer review science journals - to be published in peer reviewed science journals you have to pass peer review which means your work is validated by other scientists with PhDs. For science to be valid and relavent that is the criteria ... whether you agree or not is irrelavent. These references were included in the original article. Obviously not all scientists will have wiki pages, only scientists who are also notable - which Nassim Haramein is. This is evident by the amount of articles, books and movies that Nassim is either mentioned in or has contributed too.-2600:1012:B12C:9BCB:11B2:4059:531F:CC04 (talk) 18:41, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Repeating my comment below: in 15+ years of research, Haramein has had only one paper pass formal peer review, and that was published by this group. None of his work appears in any of the huge sources of trusted content that physicists use. When I say huge, I mean millions of articles. Pretty much every graduate student has work on here. For work of the significance Haramein claims, this is a very low bar. – Bobathon71 (talk) 18:48, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Reliable sources were found and added to this article since it was originally AfD. He was the cover story on both referenced magazine articles, which are detailed articles on his life and theory. His film broke crowdfunding records, and was consequently positively reviewed in multiple independent well-known publications. - Joe science (talk) 00:57, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment In physics, talking about one's work at a conference means almost nothing. The currency of the science is publications in journals, not APS talks. (Also, the "ER=EPR" conjecture is both speculative and completely different from what Haramein has been saying, despite the use of a few terms in common.) Furthermore, as was discussed at the AfD for the documentary, the claim that the film broke any records is press-release-parroting and untrue. XOR'easter (talk) 01:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The project you linked is a film, not a documentary. The record was for an Indiegogo crowdfunded documentary, and is not only backed by multiple secondary sources which are well known publications^[1]^[2], but is even on Vimeo's own press release about a joint venture with Indiegogo - which also includes the fact that The Connected Universe was their first project to be released on their video on demand streaming partnership with indiegogo. - Joe science (talk) 01:29, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Patrick Stewart Narrating New Documentary 'The Connected Universe'". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved 2017-09-03.
^ "Vancouver documentary breaks crowdfunding record on Indiegogo". The Globe and Mail. 2015-02-04. Retrieved 2017-09-03.

- I find it hard to draw a line between documentaries and biopics; a claim to notability should be based on sounder stuff than narrowly specific superlatives. And even if we take the "best funded documentary at Indiegogo" claim at face value, why should setting a record at one particular time with one particular fundraising platform count? Over at KickStarter, Bill Nye got $859,425 the same year. As I said above, I did find the film's case for notability stronger than the person's, but ultimately, I wasn't sold on that either. XOR'easter (talk) 01:49, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Who is saying his notability is riding on a single claim? It's one of many indications that Nassim's work has reached a wide audience. The fact that the film was reviewed in multiple prominent publications is indication of the same (and of notability, it is of course an exposé of his life's work). It's just another bullet point, along with (but not limited to) the numerous magazine articles, features/forewards in books, and features in various documentary films that Haramein has. - Joe science (talk) 02:01, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Just the point that The Bill Nye Film (2015-07-13) is more recent than The Connected Universe which crowdfunding campaign started in December 2014. You quoting this film on kickstarter don't change the claim about The Connected Universe being the most funded documentary at this time.OlivierR (talk) 06:43, 5 September 2017 (UTC) — OlivierR (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
    - I was not claiming that his notability was "riding on a single claim"; I was discussing the notability of the documentary itself, since the supposed success of that film had been invoked. XOR'easter (talk) 02:09, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The subject does not meet WP:PROF or WP:AUTHOR or WP:CELEBRITY. What we're left with is something of a WP:FRINGEBLP and, according to that criteria, there do not seem to be the independent, reliable sources that indicate Haramein has made the notable mark necessary for Wikipedia to be able to have a decent article about him. These are difficult cases because there are a lot of fans and followers who have generated content about him on various platforms, but they fail our WP:RS tests for what we would need to write a decent article. jps (talk) 01:20, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment This expresses my position better than I did. Thank you. XOR'easter (talk) 02:22, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Your claim about "fans and followers" can apply on fan website and blogs like the one of bobathon. And it is true, there are a lot of them because this new theory inspires a lot of peopel. But it is not about these sources. The WP:RS used in this articles are magazines like Nexus or Face the Current, webTV like Gaia, TedX talk [30], mainstream films like Thrive or The Connected Universe or for well knonwn journalist like Bob Bellanca [31]. There are plenty WP:RS to write a pretty decent and interesting article based only on facts. Stop trying to censure and stay on the facts. OlivierR (talk) 16:54, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - "There are plenty WP:RS to write a pretty decent and interesting article based only on facts." Then they need to be in the article, because they absolutely aren't there as yet - David Gerard (talk) 16:58, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - This is true. As you are suggesting, I will update the current page with all these missing information. OlivierR (talk) 17:10, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Regardless of the content of his work, it seems as though his documentary and work has been recognized by multiple mainstream outlets and publications. I looked up his Facebook page which has almost 700,000 followers and the Facebook page for his science foundation which has almost 800,000 followers, seems pretty notable to me. I don't understand why he shouldn't be allowed a biography page. Poolshark9 (talk) 02:46, 5 September 2017 (UTC) poolshark9 — Poolshark9 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Alas, Facebook followers do not count as reliable, independent sources. But Facebook would be a good place to post the biography of Nassim Haramein. Cheers! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 03:43, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The Intelligent Optimist and Face the Current are both detailed exposes of his work, and compeletely relevant to a biographical page on Haramein. Both articles can be found with minimal googling to verify. His film has been widely recognized and broke records through crowdfunding. Further, BobAThon has been in a personal 'adversarial' relationship with the subject Nassim Haramein for about 10 years. This is not a personal attack, this is just public knowledge at this point. If you google Nassim Haramein BobAthon this will be immediately obvious.

He holds the main source of 'debunking' material for Nassim's work, with no obvious expertise, and has continued to follow Nassim's work on the internet wherever it shows up. You can see that BobAthon has even used his own blog as a source for Nassim's work being pseudoscience on the comments that started the conversations for this takedown, under the Physics Project page. -Jediblade (talk) 05:36, 5 September 2017 (UTC) — Jediblade (talk) • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Note: Two single purpose accounts (Jediblade, OlivierR) = one person = one !vote: see this evidence. - DVdm (talk) 06:30, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@DVdm, What are you talking about? I was just trying to put some formatting to the text... Don't accuse someone of something if you have not some valid and serious proof!OlivierR (talk) 06:43, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The suggestion that Wikipedia editors might be swayed by an obscure anonymous blog is rather unrealistic. It badly underestimates the expertise of the people making decisions here. I've never advocated my blog as a source anywhere on Wikipedia, and I haven't brought it up or linked to it anywhere near this page. I don't consider Haramein to be a personal adversary – that's pathetic. I was fascinated by his physics claims and how many people thought they were genuine, and I wrote some posts about them in 2010 (none before, none since). I've looked quite deeply into his papers and I feel able to shed some light on his claims. If I feel it's helpful and relevant in a discussion then there's nothing wrong with linking to points I've already made to save re-hashing them. As noted I haven't even done that here. It's a bit twisted to try to portray me as misleading people or as being some kind of instigator of skepticism. Let's credit experienced people with the ability to think for themselves. – Bobathon71 (talk) 11:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Bobathon, since 2010 you are posting all over the web trying to discredit Nassim Haramein work. The only problem is that you clearly don't understand the physics behind this paper. You fail understanding the physic (and it is possible to forgive you on this point because it is quite a complex subject) but the problem is that you concentrate your effort on personal attacks on Nassim Haramein and all his work. The best part is when you are moking the black hole theory like it is an absurdity while in the main time Susskind it's nearly telling everyone that particles are black holes. And everyone will understand that Susskind understand way better the physics than you do. The only surprising fact is that you haven't yet be sued for defamation and slandering... OlivierR (talk) 15:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, I've never "moked" the idea of particles being black holes, and I have no interest in personal attacks on Haramein. I've never met the guy. What I have criticised is his theory that protons have a mass of 855 million tonnes (because they... don't...), the idea that they have an event horizon with a radius of 1.3fm (when experiments have been routinely probing their internal structure on far smaller scales for decades), the idea that you can model the motion of two black holes whose event horizons are touching using Newton's law of gravity (because black holes have any meaning outside of GR, and ignoring GR in that scenario is unbelievably silly), and so, so, so, so many other incompetent, idiotic things that Haramein claimed just in that one paper. If he wants to take that personally, that's up to him, but I'm talking about the ideas in the paper. If you prefer the story that his work is too wonderful for people like me to understand then please, by all means, stick with that. – Bobathon71 (talk) 17:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment Agreed, it's interesting you claim to have no consideration of Nassim since your blog post 7 years ago yet there's proof of your constant monitoring of Nassim all over the internet. For instance this simple biographical wiki page that you are so fervently fighting to be taken down. I read your blog. If you're so interested in letting people think for themselves then let them... what make you such an expert on the subject anyway? Do you hold a degree in physics? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Poolshark9 (talk • contribs)

If you criticise a pseudoscientist, their fans and apologists can't resist trying to make the person behind the criticism the focus of the discussion. I don't know why this is, but it's almost universal. So, er, what did you just claim I said? And what did I actually say? Grow up. Talk about the subject under discussion if you have anything to contribute. Bobathon71 (talk) 17:29, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Person does not meet notability criteria. Blatant promotion of person and work (obviously by an IP, two newly created usernames, and one single purpose account). - DVdm (talk) 06:30, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Google score is pretty high, higher than some Nobel physicist so the argument of blatant promotion is quite absurd. But yet Google score and Facebook audience are not notability criteria. But there are many facts showing valid notability: two mainstream films crediting Nassim Haramein work (Thrive, and The Connected Universe), more than 9 publications with collaboration with known physicist, multiple interviews by very well known journalist (Lilou Macé [32] and Bob Bellanca [33]), on the web TV Gaia ([34]) and also multiple article in mainstream journal (Face the Current April 2017, and Nexus [35]). So talking about no notability criteria is quite a joke.OlivierR (talk) 15:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Wikipedia is an open-minded place. It is all about sharing and not about censorship. Nassim Haramein is a controversial physicist but he has notability. His work has been criticized and peer-reviewed (read the peer-review), films have been made about his theory (one featuring Sir Patrick Stewart![36]), papers in various journal were written about his work (Face the Current April 2017, and Nexus [37]) and he was interviewed at multiple time by well known journalist. A Wikipedia page isn't a war zone and it is not about personal attacks. Wikipedia is ONLY about facts! OlivierR (talk) 15:31, 5 September 2017 (UTC)— OlivierR (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- Comment Publication of one paper — in a journal so obscure we don't have an article for it — is not nearly enough to satisfy WP:PROF. XOR'easter (talk) 16:09, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Nassim Haramein has nine publication, not only one and some of them were written with Elizabeth A. Rauscher, a well known physycist [38]. He is not an academic and don't satisfy WP:PROF but he clearly satisfies WP:BIO looking at all his work as physicist researcher (he found a non-profit organization 501c3 committed to advancing the research), inventor (he has 4 patents [39]), speaker and entrepreneur (creation of a startup [40]) and looking at all the third source talking about all this work (film, webTV, magazine, interviews, etc.). OlivierR (talk) 16:42, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well in 15+ years of research, Haramein has had only one paper pass formal peer review, and that was published by these people. None of his work appears in the huge sources of trusted content that physicists use. When I say huge, I mean millions of articles. Pretty much every graduate student has work on here. It's a low bar. – Bobathon71 (talk) 17:35, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As was pointed out above, Nassim has co-written papers that appear in Elizabeth Rauscher's Selected Works. But that's irrespective of the fact that at the very least he very clearly passes notability for WP:BIO - Joe science (talk) 17:51, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as non-notable (neither as a physicist, nor as an entrepreneur, nor as a celebrity, or whatever). The "record-breaking" indiegogo documentary claim keeps coming up but is based on a misunderstanding of the globe&mail article, which was describing the highest-funded documentary that was actively in progress at the time of the writing, as opposed to the highest-funded to date. The claim that it was the highest-funded to date is supported by no other sources, and indeed is false. It is true only if you cheat by choosing the boundary between non-fiction movie and documentary so as to arbitrarily rule out all the higher-funded documentaries, as is done in the conversation above. Also, as a physicist, I find it highly misleading to say that Stephen Hawking, Leonard Susskind, are even working in the same field of inquiry as him. It is true and uncontroversial that there is no sharp line between a microscopic black hole and an elementary particle (according to string theory). But he did not invent that idea or do anything to advance it, as far as I understand. Just as there is a world of difference between yelling "Time and space are the same!" and actually inventing and justifying and understanding relativity theory, similarly there is a world of difference between saying "black holes are particles" and actually developing the theory that makes the notion meaningful and correct and leads to further insights. --Steve (talk) 18:10, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I honestly don't understand this argument about a 'misleading claim'. The claim is and has always very clearly been the highest indiegogo funded documentary (obviously at the time of the articles). These aren't claims of Haramein, or of his supporters, or of a Facebook page, but self-evident claims of well known secondary sources. That's why they are cited. - Joe science (talk) 18:24, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- I understand not everyone has the physic level to understand the subject. But not understanding something don't allow you to freely decredit the work of others. Haramein actually is "developing the theory that makes the notion meaningful and correct and leads to further insights". If you take the time to read the abstract of his nine papers, you would understand that. If you don't have the scientific knowledge to understand the meaning of all these equations, don't go around insulting the work of someone else. And YES, "Stephen Hawking, Leonard Susskind, are even working in the same field of inquiry as him". So do many others researchers. An Unified Field Theory has yet to be fine and it represents a huge enterprise. It won't be done easily but you seem not to be aware of that. OlivierR (talk) 19:14, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric^{On leave} 17:43, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hamish Daud

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articles was twice dePROD without explantion. Not notable actor Arthistorian1977 (talk) 11:06, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable actor. For the record though, articles should only ever be prodded once. If they are deprodded, even with no explanation, the article should be brought to AfD, not prodded again.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:15, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: A BLPPROD-tag was removed twice (correctly) because it was placed in error (BLPPROD cannot be used when there are sources, not matter how reliable). However, since this might also indicate that deletion is not uncontroversial, I'm relisting this instead of assuming it is a case of WP:NOQUORUM.

I will allow to myself to disagree here. Articles did not have any sources beside personal profiles of the person itself. It barely constitutes as sources. BTW, it still does not have any sources at all. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 14:49, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Significant roles in Gangster, Spy in Love, My Trip My Adventure, Love You... Love You Not and Trinity, The Nekad Traveler all of which appear notable. duffbeerforme (talk) 05:10, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There are no any sources confirming the significance of the roles. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 14:51, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My Trip [41]. He is the host, show has two Indonesian Choice Awards nominations. Love You, [42] shows his significance. Trinity [43], "RICHARD OH: Writer is back with two inspiring new projects" by Cynthia Webb in The Jakarta Post, 30 March 2012 shows his significance. See also "Raisa and Hamish have a lot of fans who idolize them and dream of having a spouse like them one day." from Guess what?: Raisa and Hamish break fans’ hearts. When looking at an Indonesian subject look at Indonesian sources. duffbeerforme (talk) 11:10, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia can't be source to itself. IMDB is not reliable source, since it's community based. BTW, Indonesian artciles does not have any sources as well. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 11:47, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Added Gangster and Spy in Love to the above list [44] [45] [46]. Another source for Trinity [47] and for Love You [48]. duffbeerforme (talk) 08:32, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. – filelakeshoe (t / c)  09:51, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cognitive Process Profile

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Seems to just be advertising the services of a company that does cognitive testing. There are a few unconnected references that may or may not mention the test. Who knows? Has remained pretty much unimproved since 2011. Famous _dog (c) 11:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - info-factoids masking WP:SPAM. Bearian (talk) 13:52, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as per above. Power~enwiki (talk) 21:25, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. No prejudice against speedy renomination per relatively low participation herein. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 15:33, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Alliance for Surgery and Anesthesia Presence (ASAP)

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Borderline notability Arthistorian1977 (talk) 11:05, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Article is sourced well. Strongest argument for deletion is "borderline", which doesn't hold up. People making delete requests on grounds of notability should be sure it should be deleted, the onus is on them to provide evidence, not to simply put an article up for deletion on a whim.Egaoblai (talk) 05:05, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment (before I decide) -- As far as I am concerned, notability is determined by the difference the group has made, not where they meet, or who is on the membership roster. Notability is not inherited. That's why WP generally shuns mission statements. Don't tell me what you intend to do; show me what you've done. The papers and research ought to be first, if it is to stay Rhadow (talk) 10:09, 23 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. So Why 13:31, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Santosh Master

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Does not pass WP:GNG or our notability guidelines for artists. Salimfadhley (talk) 20:03, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per WP:TOOSOON. At 31, is career is just beginning. Bearian (talk) 19:18, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Gourmet Guides

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Speedy deletion declined on grounds of article age. Fails WP:NCORP. DrStrauss talk 12:01, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Only one source is the website of company itself failing CORPDEPTH. KGirl ^{(Wanna chat?)} 12:15, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: A single location cookbook store out of business ten years? Not notable. Rhadow (talk) 15:15, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ghoul (2018 film)

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See film notability guidelines. Unreleased films that are in principal photography should only have their own article if the production itself is notable. This article does not support notability about the production. (If the film has been in production for more than a year, then it may be in some sort of development hell, and is only notable if that is notable.) Robert McClenon (talk) 10:39, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - not yet notable and no guarantee that it will be Spiderone 14:35, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete As above. Premature. Maybe resubmit if media picks up on it. Bluehotel (talk)

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The result was delete. Deleting as a PROD via the "soft deletion" criterion. Malinaccier (talk) 19:05, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mohammad Abdulmaguid Nassar

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Non-notable deceased engineer. This article reads like a resume (not even like an obituary). Google search turns up no in-depth coverage.

Was tagged for A7, but author removed tag improperly and expanded. Can be taken to AFD now.

References do not check out. Some of the references are dead links, and some of them do not provide information about the subject. Robert McClenon (talk) 09:57, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. So Why 13:31, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Manzoor Bismil

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Just one name-check. Clearly not notable as he fails WP:GNG. Greenbörg (talk) 07:53, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. So Why 13:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Akbar Laghari

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No notability beyond 'Secretary'. Name-checked as secretary by BBC Urdu and all other sources. Fails WP:AUTHOR and WP:GNG. Greenbörg (talk) 07:58, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. – filelakeshoe (t / c)  09:54, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nashik City Centre Mall

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Fails WP:NCORP. Article written mostly as a promotional piece Ajf773 (talk) 09:25, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Keep~~ - The article was not WP:G11, However I have removed unsourced/ promo contents [49] to address the concerns raised by the nominator. And this can be further improved per WP:ATD. Anoptimistix (talk) 09:19, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't actually provided any valid reason for keep. Ajf773 (talk) 11:05, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge & Redirect - Ajf773 Well than Merge and Redirect to Nagpur. Agree ? Anoptimistix (talk) 12:47, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing really to merge. Ajf773 (talk) 04:20, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Nothing about this mall to suggest it is inherently worthy of notice. Searches for significant third party coverage do not turn up anything of interest either. Therefore, the mall does not meet the general notability guideline for inclusion in Wikipedia and should be deleted. I do not think the mall is important enough to merge into Nagpur; further, it is not a likely search term for a redirect. Malinaccier (talk) 19:18, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. So Why 13:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Najam Abbasi

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No coverage for him in WP:RS after his death. Fails WP:GNG and WP:AUTHOR. Greenbörg (talk) 08:46, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:04, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

AxisB

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Fails WP:BAND. The group has charting history. References are almost entirely not independent from the subject. A search for sources in English and Korean does not yeild significant coverage from third-party reliable sources to establish notability. Please note that the main contributor states she is the Overseas Content Manager for AXB Entertainment, running afoul of WP:COI. ℯ xplicit 07:10, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete GNG and Band. Just press releases. L3X1 (distænt write) 04:06, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- RoySmith (talk) 00:44, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Miskel Spillman

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Only one claim to fame, did nothing else except host one episode. Every source I've found focuses only on the SNL hosting, nothing else. 2007 discussion was no consensus, 2010 discussion was filled with WP:ILIKEIT, WP:ITSNOTABLE, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, and other invalid rationales. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 06:39, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep The existence of pages for all other SNL hosts is not what WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is intended to mean -- as noted in the page itself, it's 'every Grey's Anatomy character having a page doesn't mean every Office character should', which is a slightly different issue. At any rate, I would agree with the arguments proposed in other AfDs that Spillman is a significant part of the SNL mythos and therefore notable. The strongest I would endorse is a rename to theoretically focus the article more on the episode than on Ms Spillman, but I think WP:BIO1E would categorize Spillman as a notable-for-one-event individual who rightfully received an article. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 09:32, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I've massively reduced the article size. It would be strange to have a gap in the infobox here. Power~enwiki (talk) 03:00, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Power~enwiki: WP:LOSE is not a valid argument, try again. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 04:07, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I just read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, something that very few editors who bandy its title about seem to do, and found that it contains the words

In categories of items with a finite number of entries where most are notable, it serves no useful purpose to endlessly argue over the notability of a minority of these items. For example, there have been AfD discussions for articles on individual area codes listed in the List of North American Numbering Plan area codes. Currently all links to area codes in use are blue links, which serves the purpose of Wikipedia being a comprehensive reference.

The category of items here is SNL hosts, and the vast majority are notable, so in the interest of Wikipedia being a comprehensive reference we should cover them all as long as they are verifiable. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 17:38, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. So Why 13:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Darul Uloom Amjadia

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The organization doesn't seem to pass even the WP:GNG, the most basic rule on notability. There are a few scant mentions of the organization's name as well as individuals associated with it, but nothing further than that. The subject thus lacks sustained coverage in any way. The "unreferenced" tag has remained on the article for two months with no progress made. MezzoMezzo (talk) 05:11, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Eperoton (talk) 22:36, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ayala Malls Cloverleaf

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Non-notable regional shopping mall lacking non-trivial, independent support. reddogsix (talk) 04:36, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Article looks like an advertisement, violating WP:PROMOTION. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 09:22, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete article on a mall that does not even yet exist.John Pack Lambert (talk) 16:25, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Men's spaces. (non-admin closure) CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 01:20, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Man pod

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The subject of the article fails WP:SUSTAINED as a notable topic. It seems like just a flash-in-the-pan invention that will not see wide use. Even if it does, it is WP:TOOSOON. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 02:20, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to agree, but I think this falls into a larger topic of spaces created for men in or adjacent to women's clothing stores. Perhaps we should have an article on that. bd2412 T 03:25, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A merge/redirect to man cave for now, maybe? That's if the idea isn't too new. --Izno (talk) 12:44, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There's also men's spaces, but that appears to be a wreck of an article. --Izno (talk) 12:45, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that would work, as man cave implies that it's part of a home, and this is a different concept. So is men's spaces, which says it only applies to "non-westernized" countries._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 14:56, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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I edited at Men's spaces to allow for those existing in Westernized countries too, though it may be accurate that such spaces are more important in many non-Westernized countries. --do ncr am 22:03, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge, to Men's spaces i suggest. These kind of men's spaces in the shopping environment do exist, e.g. I have seen waiting areas with men's magazines at some stores, but the "Man pod" name is not itself highly notable, separately, it seems to be one brand for such. --doncram 22:03, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - I think this represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the term "men's spaces". While you are taking it literally, the article uses it as more of a metaphor for "spaces associated with manhood". A "man pod" is ostensibly designed for men, but it can be used by anyone, without judgement, making it not much of a "men's space" beyond the marketing copy - it could easily be called a "game pod" and nothing of value would be lost. Compare and contrast that to a men's room, something with a far greater connotation of gender._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 11:14, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. I agree with Doncram. Also it is basically a 'small' man space, this does not mean it has to have a separate article claiming it is separate concept. Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) - 12:47, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @Aguyintobooks: Again, there's a difference between something claiming to be a men's space and something actually being a men's space. The idea that a man pod should be for men is just a marketing gimmick and a somewhat misandrist one at that. Are they suggesting it would be of little or no utility to say, bored children, or women who want to relax while a man shops? And even putting anything about "man pods" in the article would be WP:UNDUE considering how non notable it is._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 18:09, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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@Zxcvbnm: - I wasn't aware that due weight neutrality was based on notability, or that the content of article had to be notable... Also it seems highly irresponsible to abandon children in the middle of a busy shopping mall, what is your point? Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) - 18:59, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @Aguyintobooks:If you assume that there's someone staffing the booth keeping women out, then that person would also be able to watch any kids. If you assume nobody is staffing the booth then it would be open to anyone, the idea of it being men only is moot, and it shouldn't be a men's space regardless._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 19:20, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - I didnt realise they had staff, my bad. Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) - 19:27, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - I didn't say they had staff; I don't know either way. But assuming they don't, there's no way to prevent women from using the "pods". So... not sure how this is a "men's space" beyond them just saying it should be used by men._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 19:40, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      - To ZXCVBNM, your comments to me and here indicate your concern that this "Man pod" space is not necessarily 100% perfectly enforced to only ever allow males to enter, while you suppose that other man spaces in other cultures are 100%. Hey, it doesn't matter. Clearly by the name of this it is meant for men. That is how it is marketed, that is its purpose, that is enough, so it is a man's space. And my guess is it is mostly used by men. If you wanted to go to extremes you could say that various men's sports are not men's sports, because there might not be uniform international application and enforcement of DNA testing and whatever else is needed according to your definition of 100% maleness, as becomes an issue sometimes such as for Renée Richards' participation in U.S. Open tennis. Some exception(s) to the usual does not mean we cannot call a space meant for men as being a "men's space". I mean, you don't want for the staff at the Man pod in the mall to be demanding people go through x-ray machines to see their gender-specific body parts, or anything else, right? --do ncr am 19:47, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - I agree with the above, this is basically a bit of marketing fluff with very little that's new or distinctive here (i.e. it's not notable). Merging will suit it nicely. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:28, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:48, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Wulf

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Fails WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO and WP:MUSICBIO. No independent notability outside of his work with Sodom and Kreator. Magnolia677 (talk) 11:26, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect/merge per @Joe Decker: Agathoclea (talk) 10:36, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect/merge, I don't see anything that has changed since my view in the previous AfD, but if I've missed something, please let me know. --joe decker ^talk 15:52, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Bermicourt (talk) 09:38, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. – Sabbatino (talk) 09:39, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. –Vami _IV✠ 15:40, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. Jytdog (talk) 23:46, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete my assumption on the relist is because everyone else agreed with the nomination and didn't spell it out, so I'll go ahead and do it: nothing about this artist suggests he meets any of our notability guidelines. Clearly not ANYBIO or any of the other biographical and music biographical guidelines. The question of deletion vs. merging and redirection is something to consider, but the question we should ask ourselves is if there is anything worth merging or redirecting here? I don't see anything personally that should be merged, and the article history doesn't contain anything worth preserving, and those advocating for that position have not made a case for it. That leaves deletion as the best option. TonyBallioni (talk) 16:57, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, please. There's nothing notable on this page worth keeping or merging. Topper13009 (talk) 19:47, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sort of WP:SOFTDELETE given that it's two delete and one keep case (without clear cut evidence) and one allow userfication; thus, if someone wants userfication they can ask on WP:REFUND. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:10, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Jordan Johnson-Hinds

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Fails WP:ANYBIO and WP:NACTOR. Has had a few bit roles and one recurring role. Meters (talk) 07:28, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Via Google you find more references, seems ok for WP:ACTORS because of his role roles in several television shows. TulongaN (talk) 06:42, 30 August 2017 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: TulongaN (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this XfD. [reply]
- I have no problem withdrawing this if you can show that he has had "significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." I did not see multiple significant roles. Meters (talk) 06:45, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm concerned with a number of SPAs editing this article to add similarly overinflated claims of his roles. Bit parts and a few recurring roles are written up as major roles or even starring roles. As I said, if there is sufficient reliably sourced evidence of significant roles I have no problem withdrawing this nomination. I'm not seeing it, and the continued push to overinflate claims is not only not convincing me, it is making me think that this is a case of socking or meatpuppetry. Meters (talk) 17:40, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete for failing NACTOR and GNG. He's had a few recurring roles, plus a part in the latest Robocop movie, but that's not enough. Clarityfiend (talk) 06:08, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Allow move to userspace if anyone wants to keep the article there. The subject may be getting close to notability, and if he clearly passes the threshold, the article can be moved back to the mainspace. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:38, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Ajf773 (talk) 05:19, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

List of hotels in Nigeria

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A spectular list of non notable businesses. Fails WP:NOTDIR and WP:NOTTRAVEL Ajf773 (talk) 06:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: If an article on list of hotels needs to be deleted then the List of hotels in Lagos should be merged to this one then deleted. There are many notable hotels in Nigeria, many of which have articles on WP. Darreg (talk) 15:47, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There are only six articles for hotels in Nigeria, four in Lagos (the fifth doesn't count as it leads to the hotel chain article). If they don't have articles they don't deserve to be listed. This is not a forum for free advertising for hotels. Ajf773 (talk) 20:04, 29 August 2017 (UTC)\[reply]

"If they don't have articles they don't deserve to be listed." I agree with this, and this is a completely consistent standard with other lists of this kind. postdlf (talk) 20:19, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Ajf773 I am trying to avoid replying to comments to my !votes on AFD, but there are some replies I just can't overlook despite trying to. You will be doing me a lot of good if you can read my statements carefully and not present me out of context to favour deletion or twist my rationale to show a lack of understanding of guideline on my path. Never did I insinuate that non notable hotels should be included in the article. I'm not sure of your definition of "many", but in this context I definitely consider anything up to five as many. And an hotel having article on WP before inclusion is never a mandatory prerequisite in a scanty underrepresented article such as this one. A reliable independent source that show significant coverage is enough for now, until the article gets saturated then further filter mechanism can be used on the list such as having an article on WP. I have been working with lists for a considerable time on WP and the guideline of a WP article existing before inclusion was definitely not created to prevent notable articles from being included to lists, rather it was created to prevent vandalism and unnecessary additions to saturated lists, not one such as this. Besides, if I was ignorant of that guideline I wouldn't have added, "many of which have articles on WP" to my entry.

If you think the article contains few notable and many non-notable hotels, then it is perfectly okay if you remove all the hotels lacking a sufficient inline RS. I'm fascinated by buildings and notable structures, so I will def work on this article only if it is kept. History have taught me not to improve articles when an AFD is ongoing, I can't have my work wasted in the bin. My initial statements remain 100% valid, off the top of my head, there is InterContinental Lagos (tallest hotel in West Africa and one of the tallest buildings in Africa), Oriental Hotel, Four Points, Transcorp Hilton, Tinapa Lakeside Hotel, Le Meridien Hotel 2, Ibis Hotel, Renaissance hotel are some of the notable hotels yet to have articles and it will be inline with policy if they are added to the list with ref, even without articles. "runs to my hideout" Darreg (talk) 21:19, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

There is a distinct difference between buildings and structures and hotels. One are geographic features and the other are businesses. There is clear notability requirements for both WP:GEOFEAT and WP:NCORP. The issue I have is the user of these List of hotels in x as a medium for travel guides or advertising which would fail the WP:NOT policy. We could have an article List of buildings and structures in Nigeria, as per the same lists that exists for other African countries, and appears to be more suitable for listing articles like these. Ajf773 (talk) 22:16, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree about the advertising issue, I planned on deleting 90% of the present hotels in the article after this AFD is closed. I would have done it now but I don't want to improve articles in an open AFD. Your suggestion on List of buildings and structures in Nigeria is great, something I will consider in the future. There are many great structures here that many people don't know about. Darreg (talk) 23:00, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Depending on where this article ends up (as a keep or no consensus) I proposed merging everything into that new article. Ajf773 (talk) 23:34, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with retaining or a merger. I just need a list article that will accommodate buildings such as this in Nigeria. Darreg (talk) 23:49, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the previous commenter, that the List of hotels in Lagos should be expanded to a Nigeria-wide list, as we have very few articles on Nigerian hotels outside that city. As the nominator's argument (contra WP:BEFORE and WP:ATD) appears directed solely at the current state of this list and not on the potential of the list's topic, I don't see this AFD as having any bearing on that development happening. There are only two bluelinks in this current list, so either take that as a WP:TNT of this list before moving the Lagos list to this title, or a merge and redirect of the Lagos list content here, with pruning of all non-bluelink entries and expansion to the rest of Category:Hotels in Nigeria's contents. postdlf (talk) 16:07, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep As per Darreg ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 16:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Darreg. A nation-wide list is sensible. Note, there have been many AFDs about lists of hotels. Sometimes mergers make sense, but note there is a world-wide List of hotels which is certainly valid because hotels exist in the world, and country- and other-level lists are effectively split out from that. Eliminating a national list by deleting it is never appropriate; at worst merging/redirecting to the world-wide list makes sense. --do ncr am 18:53, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep List of hotels in Lagos should be merged temporarily into this topic since majority of the listed hotels are Lagos-based. On the other hand, article creator should note that too many redlinks in a "List-of article" tends to make it fail WP:NLIST —Oluwa2Chainz »» (talk to me) 21:49, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Withdrawing AFD. The changes Darreg has made to the article no longer reflects the reasons behind the nomination. Ajf773 (talk) 05:19, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

M2 macrophages and their role in kidney transplantation

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This is an essay, not an article. WP:NOTESSAY — IVORK _Discuss 06:25, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This material is adequately covered elsewhere. Reads like an essay - possibly an abstract of a term paper - and is of little encyclopaedic value. Andyjsmith (talk) 06:56, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Most of the article details what macrophages are and then only the final section goes into detail about their role in kidney transplantation. If that information belongs somewhere then it's at Kidney transplantation, especially considering how short the section is. However even there the general gist of the subject of immunosuppression is already touched upon and the specifics our section goes into are somewhat unneeded. A short mention of macrophages perhaps. Mr. Magoo (talk) 10:28, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - we still do not publish original research. Bearian (talk) 13:53, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:24, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ehsan Rehan

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not a notable figure. cited sources are not RS. there is some coverage in rabwah.net, however the org is linked with the subject and no RS . Saqib (talk) 05:56, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Also it appears to be a autobiography, given the creator of the page. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:14, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as individual is not notable. Greenbörg (talk) 07:47, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete while his publication seems to be notable in the general complex of Ahmadiyya related media, broadly defined, there is no indication that he as an individual meets notability requirements.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:01, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete and redirect to Patari.pk. So Why 13:29, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Patari Haftanama

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not a notable record chart. cited sources are not RS. Saqib (talk) 05:53, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Literally the Patari.pk Weekly Top 20 [50] should be enough to prove this chart exists. Not sure why you have such a problem with Pakistani wikipedia articles and members contributing to this website. If you spent this much energy is reporting sock puppets which are destroying History of Pakistan, then maybe people would take you more seriously. --PAKHIGHWAY (talk) 14:11, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@PAKHIGHWAY: You better comment on content, not on me. I don't know why you think I have got issues with Pakistani articles or contributors. Have you seen me carelessly nominating any other Pakistani article for deletion? anyways, this chart is not notable enough in my opinion to have a standalone page at the moment, so you need to prove otherwise. The article mentions only two sourced at the moment - one is primary and the other one is non-RS which doesn't convey notability. Why don't you take a look at the WP's criteria on Wikipedia:Record charts . --Saqib (talk) 14:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect to Patari.pk article. Greenbörg (talk) 15:47, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, pending evidence of non-trivial coverage from reliable third party publications. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 23:29, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete and redirect to Lifestyle medicine. The consensus was clear to delete. I took the liberty of creating a redirect while closing to make attribution easier. So Why 12:55, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Culinary coaching

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Very obvious self promotion of an academic, and the academic's associated program. Would need to be rewritten from scratch; probably can't b/c this appears to fail GNG with respect to there being independent sources with substantial discussion of this "field". Might deserve a mention in Lifestyle medicine. But not this; this needs to go. Jytdog (talk) 04:42, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete because a page making the claim that "the first evidence of a health related culinary program (i.e. (a) culinary program ... aimed at improving how people eat through home cooking) was in 2001" is obviously talking claptrap. Humans have been teaching other humans to eat more healthily for years beyond reckoning. It sounds like somebody just came up with a new 'buzzphrase' to describe the practice. Famous_dog (c) 06:54, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- Your comment confuses me. The claim is not about "teaching other humans to eat more healthily" for the first time. The claim is about "the first scientific evidence" about whether teaching people to cook improves their health? Are you aware of any scientific evidence on this subject that pre-dates 2001? WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:03, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Your confusion confuses me. The version of the article I reviewed said nothing about "scientific evidence", it simply said "evidence." Famous_dog (c) 10:17, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - I can understand that reading. If you dig through the cited source – PMID 26937315, in this case, which User:Doc James will wish to note is a narrative review, and which additionally cites the systematic review PMID 24703245 about this subject – then you'll find that the "evidence" is a 2001 scientific journal article. So they're actually talking about scientific evidence. If it were fiction, we'd complain about the in-universe language. ;-) WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:15, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Promotional (WP:PROMOTION), non-notable (fails WP:GNG, i.e. I can't find mention of it in The Guardian), generic name that is not specific enough to be about a particular person or team. If about a full doctor that is notable enough and their projects, should probably have a separate article about the person. —PaleoNeonate – 08:02, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- My news search is similar to yours. I got a couple of hits at Google News archives, but nothing obviously helpful. OTOH, there seem to be a couple hundred books that use this quoted phrase (but not all of them are this subject; some of them use the phrase to describe advice on how to cook without any connection to health). I think that part of my problem is that it's hard to understand why this should be separate from nutrition counseling. It currently seems like "You had a stroke. You need to eat less salt, so lay off the salty processed foods" (nutrition counseling) and "You had a stroke. You need to eat less salt, so lay off the salty processed foods and here's how to cook with less salt" (culinary coaching) are pretty much just variations on the same thing. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - I agree that it's confusing, this article made me survey a bit the coverage of various related and somewhat related concepts, like community cooking (I didn't find the exact article for this, if any; cooking a large meal together so everyone can enjoy and/or bring some home), Cooking school, Nutritionist, Nutritionism, Healthy diet, Dietitian)... —Paleo Neonate – 16:15, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete zero reviews regarding the topic. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 09:49, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- "Zero reviews" is not the same thing as "zero notability". Review articles in academic journals are not the sole kind of source that confers notability, or we'd have to delete almost all of our articles about books, films, sports, people, businesses, etc. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Interesting lobbying here, WAID. This page blatantly hypes an academic program, which is in turn a pretty crass repackaging of existing stuff into something sexy and perhaps grant-fundable. This is the kind of thing where I imagine that grant reviewers rejected a grant saying "this is not a thing" and in that scenario this page would be an effort to answer that. (we actually had a distinguished astro-scientist desperate to have a WP article about themselves - they had wanted to be appointed to some board and some board members had actually said "gee you don't even have a WP article.. I don't know....") But this page is clearly a gravitas-building exercise. That is not what WP is for. Jytdog (talk) 18:37, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    - Coincidentally, you may be interested in Wikipedia talk:Notability (academics)#Modification of the last paragraph in the lead, which is an effort to require articles about academics such as your distinguished astro-scientist to be verifiable in WP:Independent sources. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:40, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
delete per nominators rationale--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:00, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment - I would like to see this article listed for discussion somewhere where the Food and Drink WikiProject can see it and participate. This may not need to be a medical article. Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 18:14, 29 August 2017 (UTC) *Another comment - Here's the deal, this topic and article possesses commercial information that is available from minimally-trained people. But training and education is also provided at the University Level from a multitude of graduate schools. In addition, I have found one review article that describes this topic (see the talk page of the article). Another source is from a medical professional society (.org). I have trimmed the article and it is now a stub. Somehow I am not optimistic about this article surviving this deletion discussion, but I will improve as much as possible. I'm pretty sure that is a good faith effort to provide information for readers. It is probably important because readers will benefit from this article so they can differentiate the 'charlatans' from the clinicians. Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 19:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been mentioned at WT:FOOD. —Paleo Neonate – 01:51, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed all the academic babble and academic self-promotion and written everything this article had to say in plain English. There is no "there" there. Jytdog (talk) 04:25, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep because the "generic" idea is a notable and encyclopedic subject, even if the specific individual program might not be.
So it turns out that we've all been searching with the wrong keywords. There are sources for this idea, including some recent ones whose PubMed tags aren't complete. There are multiple such programs (some brand names: ChefMD, Chef Coaching, CHEF program, Healthy Cooking and Lifestyle Center, Food Pantry and Demonstration Kitchen, and The Goldring Center for Culinary Medicine) and no agreement about exactly what to call it (Quotation from the review PMID 26937315: "Proponents of health-related culinary education are suggesting different labels for this area such as "culinary nutrition" or "culinary medicine" (CM). A recent manuscript suggested a definition of CM as "a new evidence-based field in medicine that blends the art of food and cooking with the science of medicine." However, there is still no consensus with regard to terminology, and useful definitions still need to be established by the larger medical and culinary communities.")
It's also important to remember that this is not primarily a "scientific" subject. Notability is not limited to scientific evidence. This subject has been reported in consumer health media (e.g., Scientific American's Consumer Health, aka PMID 27373001) and discussed in opinion or whither-the-future-of-medicine pieces (e.g., PMID 26929967) as well as other sources that describe what it is (e.g., PMID 26035069 and PMID 27366811). Some of these were even cited in the article, before Jytdog blanked most of it.
Dodger67 accepted this from AFC and may wish to comment. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:28, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

PMID 26937315 is a review apparently by the person who created this article who yes, appears to be on a campaign to have this neologist wrinkle on nutrition seen as a Shiny New Thing. See Nutrition#Advice_and_guidance. Teaching people how to cook, as well as what to acquire, is part of nutrition advice and guidance, and has been since forever. Per that article. Per this US govt program. Per Sylvester Graham. There is no unique "here" here, topic-wise. Just academic marketing. Jytdog (talk) 16:33, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yup should be redirected to the standard thing. We see many examples of people trying to create a new name for something for which we already have an article under the standard name. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:38, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment - synonyms will need to be added in this topic because there seems to be quite a few. This will take more time than just a few hours to sort through all the material. The article may need to be renamed. I need suggestions on how to reference the commercial entities who claim to provide this training without actually sending readers to their websites.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Barbara (WVS) (talk • contribs) 18:01, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know why you want to name entities. We are not a directory or a HOWTO guide. Jytdog (talk) 19:34, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A WP:MOVE proposal might be appropriate. If we already had any articles on the general subject, then we could just merge this one into it, and be done. But we don't, so I think the best approach is cleaning up what we've got. WP:Deletion is not clean up, and the general subject is clearly notable. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:40, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how this is not covered in Nutrition#Advice_and_guidance already. It could just be directed there but even that would just be empowering this exercise in academic marketing. Jytdog (talk) 22:44, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I can see how it's "not covered" in that link because, well, it's not actually covered there? The word cooking doesn't appear anywhere in that section. There is not a single sentence about teaching people to prepare food anywhere in there. "We teach schoolchildren about the USDA's food pyramid" is present, but "We teach sick and at-risk people how to cook" is just not there. Please do provide a direct quotation if I missed it, but I just read every sentence in that entire section, and I did not see a single one that said anything about cooking.

Could this idea be shoe-horned into that 10,000-word-long article? I'm sure it could. But that article ought to be built in summary style, with links out to the {{Main}} articles, and then this content would need to exist on another page anyway, which means that we'd have to create this page all over again. So I see little point in deleting it, especially since the article started off with more than a dozen citations, and it's been demonstrated on this page that the general subject is discussed in multiple books and multiple recent review articles (i.e., exactly the sort that MEDRS approves of as the ideal for claims about scientific evidence).

On a more meta note, when I read comments that dismiss this subject, e.g., as merely an "exercise in academic marketing" (don't you think that a marketing project would have used their trademark instead of a generic, uncapitalized name?), I feel like you are trying to punish an inexperienced editor for starting this page, even if that comes at the cost of getting verifiable information to readers. We can strip promotional language out of an article by editing it. We can broaden an article that mentioned one program by discussing multiple similar programs. But we can't get verifiable information on a notable subject to our readers by deleting everything about the subject. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:34, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment I've been invited to comment, so I took a good look at the article in its current state; I have no firm opinion about the page's salvagability or otherwise. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 21:10, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment and request -I would like feedback regarding the continual deletion of content from this article. You are welcome to discuss this on its talk page. Primary sources are used to define the topic, which is appropriate. No clinical content is being added at this time. It is getting difficult to improve the article when so much content is being removed. Thank you. Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 17:35, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder why you removed one of the few good refs we have in this diff. About this diff, that was somewhat incorrect. I'll note that the announcement of the pilot webinar for the proposed CME elective says the webinar will be taught by none other than... R. Polak, who as discussed above, does appear to be on a mission to make this a Thing. And as discussed above, that is not what WP is for. There is no difference in policy between abusing Wikipedia to publicize some new medical condition like Retained Blood Syndrome, or to publicize a proposed new medical speciality. WP is not a WP:SOAPBOX. Jytdog (talk) 17:40, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

::Even if Polak is conducting the seminar, the source is a medical society function. Apparently the American College of Preventive Medicine might sponsor an event where an author of a paper is invited to speak. It isn't necessarily Polak who is making this a thing but a professional medical society. I am not understanding why a medical society can't offer education for physicians? In good faith we have to assume that there is sufficient editorial review for all the sources referenced. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 18:40, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I'm packing up my toys and going home. I fold. I have better things to do. The point is to help readers discern charlatans who aren't trained from the clinicians who are trained. Polak is irrelvant. The exact opposite will happen when this article is deleted and those searching Google will find the charlatans (who am certain also sell herbal remedies) instead of the clinicians. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) ✐ ✉ 18:52, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The point -- of all of Wikipedia -- is our mission to communicate accepted knowledge. That's it. We are not a marketing vehicle for anything. There is all kind of content in WP about a healthy diet, nutrition, etc. Jytdog (talk) 21:06, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you don't go home, Barbara (WVS). I'm not sure what to do with your article yet. Bearian (talk) 13:56, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This article was not written by Barbara; it was written by a brand-new editor. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:37, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Lifestyle medicine. It saves the search terms, but doesn't publish original research, yet allows us an easy out, without harming new editors. Bearian (talk) 13:58, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A selective merge is a good option. I thought Culinary coaching can be merged to Lifestyle medicine. The AFD does not prevent an editor from mentioning it in the Lifestyle medicine article. QuackGuru (talk) 08:29, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

as mentioned in the nomination, this can be mentioned in lifestyle medicine giving appropriate WEIGHT in the target article relative to other aspects. i have done that. This can be deleted. Jytdog (talk) 17:33, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do not understand what is Culinary coaching from reading one sentence. The text needs to explain what "Culinary coaching" is and mention it by name. That can be done soon or after a redirect and close of the discussion. Giving the appropriate WEIGHT will depend on the quality sources or lack thereof. QuackGuru (talk) 18:45, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"culinary coaching" is not a thing. Somebody came to Wikipedia trying to make it into a thing. That is an abuse of Wikipedia that we have no obligation to follow. Indeed we are obligated to push it out. Jytdog (talk) 18:57, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A source called it "culinary medicine". It is like a new slogan for Lifestyle medicine. QuackGuru (talk) 19:02, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Again it is just a rebranding of what nutritionists and organizations like the USDA have done for a very long time. You are citing the chief promoter there. Jytdog (talk) 19:29, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is a new way of marketing what has been around for ages. It was created by an account who only made contributions to one article. QuackGuru (talk) 19:31, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I am convince that, since it already has been merged by Jytdog, it can be safety deleted. Bearian (talk) 02:49, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Jytdog's merge. L3X1 (distænt write) 04:08, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. The arguments for deletion have claimed that the event has only received routine coverage and is not likely to have a lasting effect that would establish notability. The logic here is sound and based in policy. The arguments for keeping the article have directly countered that the attack has received “widespread (national or international) impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources” and has had continued coverage as the trial of the attacker has gone on. The logic here is also sound and based on policy.

Each side has pointed out that Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. As time has gone on, it does appear that coverage of the attack has continued and expanded. With the addition of these sources, the policy-based consensus has tended toward keeping the article. Furthermore, a sensible compromise has been proposed by BigHaz that at a future date we might be better able to assess the event’s lasting impact and notability. Malinaccier (talk) 15:02, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

2017 Yavneh attack

AfDs for this article:

2017 Yavneh attack (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD · Stats)
Note article name change to 2017 Yavne attack on 2017-08-15T18:51:55‎

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WP:NOTNEWS Article about stabbing attack with 1 injury. Received minor international media attention. Suggesting it to be merged into the 2017 Temple Mount crisis article.JBergsma1 (talk) 01:09, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Previous AfD did not format and can be found here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2017 Yavneh attack. Pinging Nom User:JBergsma1 and TheGracefulSlick. Thanks, L3X1 (distænt write) )evidence( 18:27, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Twinkle and the AfD logs have me down as the nom. L3X1 (distænt write) 04:11, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Israel-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:39, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:39, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 18:42, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

* Merge and redirect - To list of terrorist incidents in August 2017 instead. This is an obvious case of WP:NOTNEWS and WP:ROUTINE so the fact we are discussing the possibility of preserving any information is generous. This was a minor incident that, while terribly unfortunate, does not necessitate an article and a WP:RAPID check ("don't rush to create articles") could have saved us a lot of time. In the unlikelihood that this establishes a WP:LASTing impact -- not just "there will be a trial" or "but it's labeled terror" -- then maybe this can re-evaluated.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 23:57, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Galatz's argument has convinced me to wait longer for further confirmation that this subject is unnotable. Unfortunately, I also believe the nomination rationale had a few shortcoming and swayed voters to look the other way this time. I'll observe this unnotable incident and revisit it in, say, two months when no major coverage or impact can be established, and WP:RAPID cannot be used as an excuse to keep it.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 16:02, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy close WP:NPASR A merge suggestion is outside the remit of AfD. Unscintillating (talk) 03:01, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Unscintillating: JBergsma1 was merely offering an alternative for !voters. He does outline a deletion rationale in his opening statement, and a merge can be decided at AfD if there is a consensus for it. If you need dozens of examples of AfDs where the outcome was "merge and redirect", I can happily supply them. Perhaps you could contribute to this AfD discussion instead of requesting an immediate closure with no progress being made?TheGracefulSlick (talk) 04:15, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The OP stated, "Suggesting it be merged..." That is not a "deletion rationale". I am adding WP:NPASR to my !vote in case the OP agrees with you that a deletion was intended. The OP was advised before posting here that "discussion guidelines" are available, so I suggest that the next nomination he/she take advantage of the community's advice. Unscintillating (talk) 09:08, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@TheGracefulSlick, Unscintillating I made this nomination when I wasn't aware yet of the possibility to nominate an article for merging, but in my opinion this article still fits the AfD as it is WP:NOTNEWS and received minor coverage as a whole. With my suggestion to merge, I wanted to say that the article either should be deleted or should be merged. I didn't put it down there, so that's my mistake.JBergsma1 (talk) 12:19, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I understand now that the NOTNEWS was intended as a deletion argument, and the merge as an ATD. I withdraw. Unscintillating (talk) 21:04, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (regardless of the procedural issues raised by Unscintillating) - there are plenty of sources for this attack which was filmed and widely circulated. Additional coverage following Prime Minister's visit to wounded victim. Still more expected coverage from future trial.Icewhiz (talk) 09:33, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Icewhiz: is your standard for inclusion really that low that you ignore the lack of WP:DIVERSE international coverage, lack of a WP:LASTING impact, lack of coverage outside a regular news cycle, and the trivial mention of the prime minister? If your WP:CRYSTALBALL argument for "expected" (expected according to who -- you?) future coverage of a trial is the best you have, (see WP:ROUTINE) then I strongly recommend you strike your !vote, and create a more thoughtful response in tune with our guidelines, not your own.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 18:52, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It is, of cource, nowhere written that to pass WP:NCRIME an article must have international coverage (although this stabbing attack was covered internationally). What is written is WP:GEOSCOPE: " Coverage of an event nationally or internationally may make notability more likely, but such coverage should not be the sole basis for creating an article." i.e., national coverage can suffice to meet GEOSCOPE - and does routinely suffice with WP:NCRIME articles; although, of course, additional indici of notability are also needed.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:14, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

With an 11 day old event - some crystalballing is required. This is a case where waiting - both for article creation and article deletion is warranted. This isn't a trivial mention of the PM - but rather a bedside visit. Coverage of this event was wide in the Israeli news cycle (and the PM visit extended this over the initial coverage, as did the video) and this also got international mentions. At the current level of coverage it passed WP:NCRIME for an 11 day old event. Just because the victim was Israeli is not a reason to set a lower bar for deletion. If I were to vote on this event 6 months hence - my position might change based on the coverage the event receives then.19:24, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

This is the coverage I see in Hebrew - [51], and this is English - [52]. We even have a mention in Aug 12 following a different stabbing attack. This level of coverage certainly qualifies for NCRIME for an 11 day old event.Icewhiz (talk) 19:29, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Icewhiz: I ask that you do not cast aspirations. I never said anything about "lowering the bar" because the victim was Israeli. Do not try to muddy the waters with that shit; there is simply no place for that if you care at all about civil discussion.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:58, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This wasn't directed at you specifically, I apologize if this was taken so. It is my belief (based on participation in AFD discussions in I/P and non-I/P events) that I/P NCRIME events (and possibly other active conflicts) are more likely to be face merge/redirect/deletion discussions. It is my belief that notability should be applied per the level of coverage regardless of where this occurs.Icewhiz (talk) 20:20, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:04, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to list of terrorist incidents in August 2017. The article fails to establish notability outside of the fact that it took place. No lasting significance or long-term societal impact from this isolated attack. Best covered in an existing list article; anything useful can be picked up from the article history. K.e.coffman (talk) 04:45, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Per WP:LASTING it is too early to judge what future coverage will be and the nomination is based purely on speculation that it wont be covered. This article was nominated too quickly per WP:RAPID. - Galatz ^Talk 13:14, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

also WP:CRYSTAL? you're assuming future coverage will occur. LibStar (talk) 16:45, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This 12 day old event has been received several spurts of coverage in the past 12 days. It hasn't been a single newcycle item. The videos, the fighting back, the extremely critical injury and recovery, politician attention, etc. - has brought this a bit beyond the "normal" attacks. This is the problem with bringing an event that is only a few days old to AFD - you end up judging it by the coverage up until the point.Icewhiz (talk) 16:52, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@LibStar: I believe you should read my comments below when I clarified this further. I mentioned view two of WP:DEADLINE, where since there is potential for it that its too soon. In 6 months I might feel differently but right now I dont.

Keep - Per WP:RAPID --Shrike (talk) 13:38, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Galatz and Shrike and isn't it also wrong to speculate that there will be future sources? We do not wait for subjects to be notable: they either are or are not. Besides, there is nothing WP:RAPID about this; coverage died after two days and the article can easily be recreated from the editing history in the unlikely event it deserves a standalone article. WP:ROUTINE coverage of a trial -- if there is coverage that is -- will not change that.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 14:27, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think its premature it say that it died. If you look at Murder of Shelly Dadon you will see that there are huge gaps in the coverage as well, but as the trials move forward it resurfaces. A month after the murder it was gone from the news, but it was back in the news later. I would personally have not created this article yet, but once it is created I think its too premature to delete it.

Additionally WP:RAPID certainly applies as points directly to WP:DEADLINE (I know an essay not a policy, but its what the policy refers to) which states in view two "We can afford to take our time to improve articles, to wait before deleting a new article unless its potential significance cannot be established." Are you telling me that we cannot point to its POTENTIAL significance? That is why it is premature to delete this article until time has proven that there is no potential for significance. And as I said before I would not have created it due to view one, but once it is created, I fall into view two, and feel WP:RAPID applies. - Galatz ^Talk 14:54, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Perp in custody and victim recovering in hospital; it requires no WP:CRYSTALBALL to see that coverage will continue. Furthermore, well-sourced articles on ideologically-motivated terrorist attacks on civilians in peacetime are routinely kept at Wikipedia: 2017 Notre Dame attack, Louvre machete attack, 2016 Ohio machete attack, 2016 Minto stabbing attack, 2017 Bishop International Airport incident, 2015 Leytonstone tube station attack, and other, similar attacks in which perp failed to murder his victims. I think that editors arguing delete need to explain why they are judging attacks in Israel by different standards than similar attacks in the U.S., France, Australia, and Britain - many of which were not brought to AFD at all.E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:46, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@E.M.Gregory: a quick glance will show no one has argued deletion. This is the second time you have inferred I and others have different standards for Isaerli victims. I ask you to provide diffs to support these claims or redact that portion of the comment as it is a personal attack.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:28, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense. I made no personal attack on you. As for your other point, er... this is an AfD discussion.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:41, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note, however, that Slick consistently takes the position that many terrorist attacks in Western countries are minor and should be deleted. One typical Slick comment here: [53].E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:33, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@E.M.Gregory: and how is that relevant to this discussion? I know you are trying to muddy the waters (as usual) by first insinuating I have some prejudice against Israeli victims then bringing up unrelated comments I made but isn't that a little much to keep an article that is going to be kept regardless of your participation. Even for you?TheGracefulSlick (talk) 22:26, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I was attempting to clarify that your editing shows no particular bias against terrorist attacks in Israel, rather, you dismiss the notability of terrorist attacks that do not produce mass casualties in general.E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:29, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just as a random aside, I do believe there is that feeling on WP. Not saying this discussion fits into that or not, and not accusing anyone of it, just as a statement of fact. For example, the one case that I always remember for the is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2016 Tel Aviv shooting because that was the rationale for nominating. - Galatz ^Talk 19:48, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The page should probably be moved to 2017 Yavne attack attack, consistent with the spelling on Yavne - Galatz ^Talk 13:40, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, so I

Moved to 2017 Yavne attack

I left a redirect just so everything is clear, those can be deleted later if we feel that Yavne with a "h" is not a viable search term. I also added a Find Sources template above with the correct spelling. L3X1 (distænt write) )evidence( 18:56, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Routine crime news. If this event proves in three years or so to stand out from others, it can always be re-created, but we don't keep articles on topics that clearly fail our notability guidelines just in case. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 05:59, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to list of terrorist incidents in August 2017, incident was part of the Temple Mount crisis but is too small in encyclopedic value.JBergsma1 (talk) 22:32, 18 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 15:03, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Although the coverage seems to have significantly decreased, there are still occasional mentions of it, in addition to the effects that this attack caused (the cutting off of a city to catch the perp). RileyBugz ^会話 _投稿記録 18:39, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Setting up a perimeter around a crime scene is standard operating procedure for police forces around the world. At heart this is an isolated incident with minimal human effects and not the slightest inkling of longterm historic importance in the offing... Carrite (talk) 17:10, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This led to a blockade of Yata next to Hebron, not near Yavne for a few days AFTER the stabber was caught (at the scene itself).Icewhiz (talk) 04:09, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Until proven that this incident will not have long term affect. --brew crewer (yada, yada) 01:07, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How do you prove a negative? Carrite (talk) 16:52, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

You can prove it if you wait a few months at least before running to Afd. --brew crewer (yada, yada) 13:33, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: If no person dies in the attack, then I don't think it reaches the notability threshold. ImTheIP (talk) 19:50, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See WP:NCRIME. The outcome is irrelevant, what's relevant is coverage (even a non-crime such as a runaway bride that received coverage as a crime before being determined as benign, is notable).Icewhiz (talk) 20:55, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - One injured, no dead. No lasting significance to be expected. WP is NOTNEWS. Carrite (talk) 16:51, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - A redirect to List of terrorist incidents in August 2017 also seems suitable. Carrite (talk) 17:12, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of terrorist incidents in August 2017. I waited a few days and performed yet another WP:BEFORE search but, as expected, no WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE has been established. With nothing outside the basic news cycle, this incident falls under WP:NOTNEWS. No WP:LASTING impact has been established in RS and coverage fails WP:DIVERSE as it is mainly localized and mirrored other media reports. The incident also falls short of WP:GEOSCOPE since the crime affected a very small area (the crime scene) and had absolutely no long-term affect on the community itself. According to WP:EVENTCRIT, events, including crimes like these, are often reported by the media but post-analytical sources are what support notability. WP:ROUTINE reports about a future trial, even if everyone's WP:CRYSTALBALLs are working better than usual, do not contribute to notability. I urge editors to stop waiting for non-existent notability and judge the article on the limited coverage available -- as we are supposed to.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 22:38, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose that redirect on the grounds that detail useful to WP users is necessarily lost in the redirect of a of a well-sourced article. But also that user-friendliness is lost in the redirect of an article to a single list rather than to the multiple lists that enable users to actually find the the info that they are looking for. Moreover, incident has had more than sufficient national and international coverage to meet WP:NCRIME. Note in particular that there has been coverage of the impact on perp's hometown, that perp is in custody so there be a trial; and that the press has followed the recovery of the victim, the heroic-middle-aged-grocery-clerk-fights-off-attack-by-young-terrorist angle makes good copy.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:47, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We already know you oppose a redirect because you voted keep. You are basically voting twice since nothing you said here is extraordinarily different than your original comment.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 16:51, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Obviously the attack received international coverage and it is crystallballing to say that it won't further have coverage in future future (these cases do come around especially at sentencing time). Nominate again in a couple of years, we'll see what the record says then. Now, on the issue that "there were no deaths." If this was somehow any sort of standard, then you would have to delete the "Cecil the Lion" article, as: (1) There were no human deaths (2) The courts ruled everyone was innocent: the U.S. hunter, the Zimbabwean hunt guide, etc. I.e, there was never a case at all, only media and mass hysteria. The bottom line is that the current standard is that notability is documented via WP:RS from media and authors and as the Yavne attack has plenty of WP:RS from media, people don't have a foot to stand on to argue for deletion. XavierItzm (talk) 20:38, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The indictment came down today and lots more information is now coming out about the attack, furthering the WP:LASTING argument - Galatz ^Talk 14:25, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. And the victim got out of hospital - both gave a spurt of coverage today. An interesting tidbit from the coverage today is that the attacker just came back from an Umrah to Mecca, and according to his confession saw the attack as a religious commandment of Jihdad (as opposed to a secular-nationalist framing).Icewhiz (talk) 14:42, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think you both need to re-read what WP:LASTING is all about. Not that it matters: this will just be yet another AfD that goes to no consensus because enough editors choose to selectively ignore policies.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 19:26, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:HEY. Additions to article by editors Icewhiz and Galatz draw on new press coverage to override Carrite's WP:CRYSTALBALL prediction that no "significance" would emerge, and should reduce concerns expressed by Nom and Graceful Slick that sourcing is inadequate to pass WP:NCRIME. It is unusual, perhaps novel, for a Palestinian to visit Mecca and assert that the pilgrimage was made as ideological preparation/inspiration for committing murder.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:29, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- To suport the WP:HEY argument, here is the version as of the time of the nomination [54], quiet a difference from the current version - Galatz ^Talk 16:45, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and redirect to List of terrorist incidents in August 2017. Thankfully no deaths but also no significant international coverage, as opposed to 2016 Hurghada attack where I voted keep [[55]]. BTW - the ABC.com link just goes to their main page. Other international web sites just reposted the AP report. [[56]]. If more extensive independent international (i.e. non-AP) coverage develops and this attack takes on greater cultural or societal significance for any reason, then this can always be easily restored as long as it's not deleted. WP:CRYSTAL applies. And it appears the most important content has already been merged to that article anyway. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 22:28, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

editor appears to be unaware of international coverage by Press TV, Tasnim News Agency, New York Times, Arab Times and other non-Israeli media including The Jewish Press, and unaware of the fact that national coverage suffices to meet WP:GNG and is sufficient with WP:NCRIME.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:22, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

When I skimmed the long list of sources from unfamiliar Israeli sites, none of which really offered more than "Palestinian terrorist stabs Israeli worker and is arrested", I admit I did miss the NY Times coverage. But not only is the Times article not specifically about the attack in title or main content, the brief mention comes 22 paragraphs down. An indication of the continuing tensions came on Wednesday when a Palestinian teenager from the West Bank stabbed a supermarket worker in the back in the central Israeli town of Yavne, seriously wounding him, in the kind of attack that has become almost common over the past couple of years. Not only is it incidental coverage, it actually hurts your argument in this context by essentially saying this type of attack is too common to be worthy of its own article. Nonetheless, I did think about the same thing you mention below - that the long list of attacks make it harder to find the one you are looking for, but for that the reader can do a browser in page keyword search. It's better than nothing if the article was deleted altogether, and seems like a fair compromise. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 01:30, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ah-ha - just checked the edit history and saw why I missed the Times coverage - you just added it after I voted. Now I don't feel so embarrassed. Calling me out for missing coverage that isn't in the article seems a bit unfair, but I've been bludgeoned worse by others. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 02:00, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have added some more sources to the article that I hope eases your concerns. I added a few UK, Australia and Italy sources to show more international coverage. - Galatz ^Talk 13:22, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

TimTempleton, I ought to have written that, and do apologize. Unless an article at AfD is prima facie k or d, I tend to run my own news search. In this case, I assumed tha there must have been intl. coverage, and added a little of what is out there. Do note that there has been WP:SIGCOV from Iran and Russia - not all of it added to article. International coverage does not begin and end with The AFP, BBC and CNN are not the alpha to omega of the international media.E.M.Gregory (talk) 10:56, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No problem - I didn't want my vote to be based on an oversight. This discussion could start a policy initiative so I've come back. I like BigHaz's idea below that we need to come up with some sort of threshold for what is notable or not. I visited WP:NOTNEWS: "While including information on recent developments is sometimes appropriate, breaking news should not be emphasized or otherwise treated differently from other information." I read most of the English coverage (am not a fan of foreign language sources, since they are just used to show notability and not really add to the user experience - but that's a different hill), and still feel the horrific attack was not something that warrants its own article. As a counterpoint, I found a domestic terrorism incident that was also horrific and also thankfully not fatal, which has not been turned into a dedicated article. Unite the Right rally#August 12 discusses the brutal beating of Deandre Harris by Daniel Borden and five others, but it is a single paragraph in a larger article. I would argue that the Harris beating is at least as noteworthy as the Yavnez stabbing - even the NY Times coverage says Yavnez is all too common. The aftereffects - the Yatta village lockdown - are also considered routine according to the Israeli media coverage.[[57]] So to help out anyone who wants to come up with some consistent guidelines for how to address this and future AfD discussions, perhaps it becomes a checklist, with three criteria that the article has to pass:

1) Is the event unique, either as itself or through its eventual societal/legal/political impact?

2) Is the event covered in detail by more than just local outlets, signifying general interest (national is fine, international is great)?

3) Is the coverage diverse - i.e. not just multiple sources rehashing the same basic facts (as you might find with outlets that recycle AP coverage)?

I think this event fails 1 (as of today), just barely passes 2 and does better with 3. But all 3 should pass. Then the next decision tree is 4) Is the event part of a broader event, such as a sustained series of attacks? Since 4 applies, a merge would make more sense (if 4 didn't it would be a clean delete). I hunted some more to find if there was a more appropriate merge destination than List of terrorist incidents in August 2017 but it's a bit of a hodgepodge. There's Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, which ends in 2014 and sends readers to Israeli–Palestinian conflict (2015–2016), but there's nothing specifically for 2017. Absent someone who is willing to create an article for 2017 Israeli-Palestinian terrorist incidents, the only suitable place for a redirect is the aforementioned August 2017 article. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 21:02, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen several sources refer to this as part of a series of attacks as part of the 2017 Temple Mount crisis. - Galatz ^Talk 16:25, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If this attack can be linked, that would be an excellent redirect option. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 18:49, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I know I have seen it elsewhere but the NYT article refers to it as part of the continued tensions [58]. - Galatz ^Talk 19:03, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose redirect because redirecting a notable crime to any single list reduces functionality of Wikipedia because it makes it far more difficult to find what they are looking for. This stand-alone article can be usefully linked from articles and lists about a range of topics, from jihad attacks inspired by self-described piety, to a list of Palestinian terrorists receiving generous pensions form the Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund, to terrorist attacks on Israelis, and probably other articles. Functionality of eliminating detail and reducing usefulness by directing it to a List of terrorist incidents in August 2017.E.M.Gregory (talk) 23:22, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Unsurprisingly I'm going to have to remind you of WP:BLUDGEON yet again. Your keep vote sufficiently tells us you oppose other options yet you have used two additional occasions to express how you oppose a redirect. Let other editors vote. We don't need constant updates reasserting how you are against anything other than keep.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:06, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To discuss the massive changes to the article since the nomination (28 new sources and 10x more content)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep based on the fact that the article has been considerably expanded and the subject - at least for the present - seems to have achieved a sufficient level of notability. I can't help thinking, though, that it wouldn't be a bad idea either to have a blanket policy of revisiting these AfD-nominated terrorist attacks after a suitable amount of time has elapsed (6 months? Probably more) in order to gauge whether what looks like notability now really is so, particularly when it's easy for an expert to say that "because the attacker did X, this signals a new direction in terrorism", and then nobody else ever does X again. Additionally, I wouldn't mind it one bit if someone more dedicated than I (but less...I'm going to say "involved"...than the two well-known antagonists here) were to have a crack at a subject-specific notability guideline for acts of terror, as there are clearly some passionately-held views (and a passionately-wielded bludgeon, I note, which is a discussion for another time) on both sides and it's sadly not a type of article that's going to cease getting created any time soon. The best I can volunteer for in that regard is a level of neutrality and a preference for clarity, rather than anything else. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:20, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the proposals made by BigHaz & Templeton, I would say that WP:NCRIME covers the territory very well; not to mention the disadvantages of entangling notability guidelines with the debate over what constitutes an act of "terrorism".E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:19, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing that article out. It mirrors somewhat my thoughts above and I had not seen it before. This article fails WP:DIVERSE, and arguably WP:DEPTH and WP:PERSISTENCE. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 14:36, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It definitely meets DIVERSE - it has been picked up by every Israeli, Jewish, and Palestinian source - as well as several international sources. Regarding DEPTH - there is feature length coverage here in several sources. PERSISTENCE here is tricky due to WP:RAPID - the coverage is sustained from the attack to present (with major coverage this week - following hospital release and indictment) - but still covers a short time span as this is a recent event. Note that in most cases national coverage is enough, and that Israeli/Jewish press do not cover EVERY attack in a persistent manner (most stabbings - die out in terms of coverage within a few days - this one has been ongoing due to the "drama" associated with it (all on film, a victim on death's door, and the attacker's behavior and motivation)).Icewhiz (talk) 14:51, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, sources indicate notability. Everyking (talk) 16:11, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
redirect - To list of terrorist incidents in August 2017. LibStar (talk) 10:18, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per above comments. Greenbörg (talk) 17:26, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

~~I don't think we need a final relist because I see a consensus more for keep than for redirect or merge. NAC,~~ let an admin do it, ~~or give it some more time?~~ Thanks, L3X1 (distænt write) 00:38, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per WP:EVENT ."Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." Simply being related to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict isn't enough to give this "additional enduring significance". Power~enwiki (talk) 01:04, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I really hope the closing admin carefully analyzes the rationales provided here. There may be a slight "lead" (which would only matter if this were a majority vote) in keep votes; however, the case to at the very least redirect this article is supported by accurate takes on our guidelines. Hopefully, they also discount votes that simply say "per above" or "sources indicate notability" as they do not apply any thoughtful rationale for the side those statements support.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 01:24, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- even though substantially expanded, the article content still fails WP:NOTNEWS. For example, the "Aftermath" section contains: "Israel Defense Forces (IDF) forces raided the home of the assailant in the city of Yatta, and arrested his father." This is routine reporting. I fail to see the encyclopedic relevance here; hence my vote is still for a "Redirect" to a list. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:39, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. So Why 06:12, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Chango (EDM)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Fails WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO, and WP:MUSICBIO. Magnolia677 (talk) 20:50, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. MassiveYR ♠ 20:59, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. MassiveYR ♠ 20:59, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment I cnt find valid references about this subject of article on googleMr.ref (talk) 15:11, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete total lack of 3rd party reliable source references.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:59, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. – filelakeshoe (t / c)  09:59, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Jam and Sunny

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Fails Wikipedia general notability guideline and film guideline. Cannot find any awards given to show, or news article about it. Tdts5 (talk) 20:32, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep WP:SOFIXIT case; airs on a national network, available on multiple video providers and disc formats (and it even had a magazine). Look deeper (and a lot of shows never get anything for their mantle; that's not one of our standards for an article). Nate • (chatter) 21:58, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete but if kept, rename to Jim Jam & Sunny. Firstly, this is not a film; it's a TV programme. The correct guideline is WP:TVSHOW, which JJ*&S meets: "Generally, an individual radio or television program is likely to be notable if it airs on ... a cable television network with a national audience." Secondly, the title needs to be changed: the ampersand is the official name and is critical when searching for sources. Thirdly, I can't find any RSs about it all, nor can I think of any offline sources that are likely to mention it. It's mentioned once in a novel, but that's not enough to suggest it's got the kind of momentum to mean it will be included in future specialist works on children's TV. Fails WP:NPOSSIBLE. Matt's talk 01:37, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep completely meet Wikipedia′s lowsMr.ref (talk) 14:36, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. So Why 06:14, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Zhaleh Alamtaj

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Not notable Ryanharmany (talk) 19:59, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The problem may be one of transcription, as her name appears in a myriad of ways in English. This website states, "She might be called the Emily Dickinson of Persian poetry," and then expands on the name spelling problem:
...apparently Ālam-Tāj Qā'em-Maqāmi is widely know as 'Zhāle' ('dew' -- hence also the title for this collection), a pen-name of her choosing. [Transliteration further complicates and confuses matters: the (US) Library of Congress apparently goes for: ʻĀlamtāj Qāʼimʹmaqāmī (and Zhālah), while alternative Westernized spellings include Alamtaj Ghaemmaghami ..... Unable to deal with all the diacritical marks, Flipkart beautifully (but near-uselessly) lists the book as: Mirror of Dew: The Poetry of Lam-T J Zh Le Q 'Em-Maq Mi.)
Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:28, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Given the complexity of the issue, I don't think the nominator does us or himself any favours with the two-word "rationale" ~~and if it doesn't improve I think I might lean towards keep.~~ Shawn in Montreal (talk) 20:31, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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No, that's not fair, either. I can't find anything to refute the nomination claim, really. So neutral for now, at least. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 21:24, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Several sources in Farsi pointing to notability, e.g. this. How many non-notable poets are re-published and celebrated on the 69th anniversary of their death? By the way, Google Translator works fine in Farsi. 84.73.134.206 (talk) 06:48, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep if this is the same person. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=-1rObRhNmGoC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=Zhaleh+Alamtaj&source=bl&ots=cVm6k0JcDR&sig=SH6qhLksWbHEjfh3PtwKprcdA2U&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiV29-8gejVAhUoKsAKHSUPB8cQ6AEIQDAF#v=onepage&q=Zhaleh%20Alamtaj&f=false http://euacademic.org/UploadArticle/1960.pdf (page 6622) http://womenstudy.ihcs.ac.ir/article_1854_338.html http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674428249 I note the comment about name confusion above. But, at the moment it appears that she is a very significant poet. The page may need editing to fully identify her, but that is not a reason for deletion. Ross-c (talk) 09:30, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. So Why 06:15, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The St. Regis Bal Harbour

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Coverage consists of press releases, routine announcements, promotionally worded articles, and a rating of number 136 in USA Today best hotels for 2015. This organization has not received significant attention from independent sources to support a claim of notability per WP:NRV and WP:ORGIN. Has not received non-trivial coverage in mulitple sources independent of the subject; fails WP:CORPDEPTH. Wikipedia is not a platform for promotion per WP:NOTPROMO. ---- Steve Quinn (talk) 03:00, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep I've found quite a few online articles either featuring or otherwise nontrivially mentioning this hotel at the Telegraph, the NY Times, Forbes, boston.com, USA Today, and more. While I agree that none of these are reporting anything negative, I wouldn't call them promotional: the content appears to be independent of the hotel, and while it is pretty consistently positive, I would expect (or at least not be terribly surprised by) a relatively new luxury hotel to have at least generally positive reviews. There are also a few other news stories out there as well: [59], [60] for two, in addition to the substantial number of mentions it gets. Cthomas3 (talk) 07:27, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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What the above sources provided by Cthomas3 indicate is this topic does indeed fail WP:CORPDEPTH. All of these articles are routine coverage; they are routine announcements describing hotel amenities that may or may not be glamorous or opulent. This is not reporting, it is regurgitating ordinary qualities that all hotels have and, in this instance, what all five star hotels have throughout the world. If information such as this is the only thing available in articles then this is not significant coverage even though it is an array of sources. Non-trivial coverage is emphasized in CORDEPTH, WP:SPIP, GNG, ORG, and so on.

Each of these has at most a few paragraphs of mundane, routine, trivial coverage. These seem to be on par with product placement. Also, it has elements of churnalism, where reduced staff and budgets in our present day causes organizations and reporters to reach for promotional materials sent to them via mail, email, fax machine and so on. There is no shoe leather that is used-up by footwork and interviews. We have to look deeper than these article showing up as reliable sources. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 06:44, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete -- no relevant encyclopedic content is present in the article at the time of this writing. The article is 100% promo and such content is excluded per WP:NOTSPAM. Wikipedia is not a travel brochure or free means of promotion, so delete. No objection to recreating if can be done with reliable sources. There's no hurry to get to such a state, however. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:47, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the reviews and news coverage found by Cthomas3 (talk · contribs), which demonstrate that The St. Regis Bal Harbour passes Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline.
Cunard (talk) 04:01, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notable, luxury hotel widely covered in upscale reliable, secondary sources for its understated, uber posh style. Keep per W:POSH.E.M.Gregory (talk) 22:45, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. A notable hotel in the present and perhaps even more notable for the site's history: as the Morris Lapidus-designed Americana, this was one of the best known Miami Beach hotels in the '50s through the '70s, and thereafter it continued as the Sheraton Bal Harbour until its 2007 demolition.[61] JFK famously stayed there a few days before his assassination.[62] The article would benefit significantly from the addition of a history section. --Arxiloxos (talk) 05:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- still "Delete"; the content is 100% promotional, as in:

In 2016, ARTIC allocated $35 million in order to add a restaurant, three, four-bedroom suites, and a renovated lobby to the St. Regis Bal Harbour resort!

The rest of the article is the same. Such content is excluded per WP:NOTSPAM. K.e.coffman (talk) 03:48, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I agree with K.e.coffman. This kind of content is advertising. Also, notability is not inherited from famous people who stayed at the hotel, besides receiving only passing mention in the article(s).

Per WP:INHERITORG:

An organization is not notable merely because a notable person or event was associated with it. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 05:12, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 19:07, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Satya (Bhojpuri film 2017)

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queried speedy delete Anthony Appleyard (talk) 09:17, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. No reference at all to meet WP:GNG. Robert G. (talk) 09:37, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - No reliable references. No reviews or other information to establish film notability. Robert McClenon (talk) 13:55, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep as it has two news sources now Atlantic306 (talk) 18:25, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep. One of two sources added by Dileepmaa calls the film "Superhit" and there are some Hindi news articles that mention the film. However, I'd like to see better sources. utcursch | talk 16:23, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In looking:

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WP:INDAFD: सत्या Satya 2017 film

Keep The apparently ignored WP:BEFORE shows sourced were avaialble even if not originally used, and under WP:IMPROVE, WP:IMPERFECT, WP:HANDLE and WP:SEP we fix, not delete over an inability to look. Schmidt, ^{Michael Q.} 09:03, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
speedy Keep as per user Schmidt. Egaoblai (talk) 08:11, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. No prejudice against speedy renomination per low participation herein. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:07, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rob Margolies

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Doesn't meet WP:NACTOR or WP:GNG. Has been tagged for notability for 9 years; hopefully we can now resolve whether the issue is WP:NEGLECT or lack of notability. There was in 2008 a proposal to merge it to Wherever You Are (2008 film). As it's not the only film he has worked on, I think this could be a misleading redirect. Boleyn (talk) 08:21, 13 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Meets WP:NDIRECTOR having directed a film which has been widely reviewed[63] - although it's known under 2 names, Lifelines and Wherever You Are. For reasons already mentioned mentioned (his other work), a merge/redirect of this article to Wherever You Are (film) may not be helpful. Probably some of the 16 reviews listed on Rotten Tomatoes contain information about Margolies that could be used to improve this article. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:22, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. —SpacemanSpiff 14:46, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Zanai Bhosle

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Poorly sourced and advertorially toned WP:BLP of a singer, whose only stated claim of notability is that she appears as a guest vocalist on one single by a band she isn't actually a member of. This is not a claim of notability that passes WP:NMUSIC by itself, but nothing else here is any stronger -- and the article is referenced to just two newspaper articles which are both barely longer than blurbs, and thus don't constitute substantive coverage for the purposes of getting past WP:GNG. No prejudice against recreation in the future if and when she accomplishes something noteworthy, but right now it's WP:TOOSOON. Bearcat (talk) 17:57, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - WP:TOOSOON. - Mar11 (talk) 05:06, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - all about her grandparents. WP:NOTINHERITED. Bearian (talk) 13:47, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Unconfirmable, signs point to a hoax, but at best not notable enough to draw the kind of coverage seen for other such entities. bd2412 T 21:51, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rajkiya PG College, Rajesultanpur

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This article is about a college for which I cannot verify the existence. The article was created by an editor who has previously placed false / hoax information in articles. This article appears to have been simply copied from RMRS PG College, including the references. According to the status section, this college is 12(b) and 2(f) but the reference link is dead. However, searching on the same site, I found a listing for all 12(b) and 2(f) colleges. It is this pdf. I cannot find this college in the list. The article also claims that the college is affiliated with Dr. Ram Manohar Lohia Avadh University. The university's web site has a list of affiliated colleges. Looking at the Ambedkar Nagar list, cannot find this college listed. Even if this college exists, I doubt that any of the information in the article is correct or true and WP:TNT would apply if evidence of this college were to actually be found. Whpq (talk) 20:41, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: There are similar "Status" sections in articles on multiple colleges, all claiming to have been assessed in April 2011 as Grade B (CGPA 2.17): two of these (SLJB PG College, Ramabai Government Women Post Graduate College) were established in the 1990s, so while the claim cannot be verified (dead link) it is at least credible, but this one and the other identified above were not established until a couple of years after the claimed assessment. AllyD (talk) 08:37, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Per the research by Whpq above and my own observation about replicated text. The repurposing of text and references from pre-existing articles places the article credibility under severe doubt in which case, along with a lack of evidence from Indian media searches, the only safe outcome is erasure. AllyD (talk) 09:05, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 19:24, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tambaram Mudichur road

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This subject fails general notability guidelines due to a lack of significant coverage from reliable publications. Steps were taken WP:BEFORE this nomination to locate appropriate sourcing but were not successful, save for passing, trivial mentions. Recommending deletion until such time appropriate sourcing is available. Regards, Yamaguchi先生 (talk) 20:29, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment I have added the article to Wikiprojects Indian roads. It maybe more notable as State Highway 48, as per some roads listed at List of state highways in Tamil Nadu. Derek Andrews (talk) 22:19, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Fails WP:GEOROAD. Naming all the banks in the street does not provide any notability whatsoever. Ajf773 (talk) 18:31, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The name is actually conjectural. It seems to be a combination of two roads (which are actually parts of a state highway). See [64].--DreamLinker (talk) 18:26, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. bd2412 T 02:18, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

ChopSquad DJ

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Fails WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO, and WP:MUSICBIO. Unable to locate any significant secondary sources to expand his biography and support notability. No awards or charted songs, and of the 14 sources cited in the article, "ChopSquad" is mentioned on just 7 of them--usually it's just his name. The sources are:

[65] - Trivial mention.
[66] - Mentions his name.
[67] - No biographic information. This source only supports that ChopSquad DJ produced the song "We Be On It" by Lil Bibby.
[68] - Mentions his name.
[69] - Mentions his name.

"kollegekidd.com" discusses him in two of the articles, ([70][71]), but this appears to be a user-submitted blog (though this may not be correct).

Even The Guardian mentions him in an article here, but just his name.

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Keep it is understandable that music producers don't get the "credit" they deserve from media outlets. The subject produced the majority of Bang 3 which charted on Billboard's Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums thus clearly passing #1 of WP:COMPOSER and #2 of WP:MUSICBIO#Others. Nominator should note that aside the reliable sources, kollegekidd.com has editorial oversight and has been used multiple times on Wikipedia. PabloTheMenace (talk) 21:51, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong delete the purpose of Wikipedia is not to right wrongs, and if reliable sources do not give the subject "the credit they deserve" than Wikipedia cannot try to reactify such claimed problems without sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 08:02, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: the subject didn't "produce the majority of Bang 3"... he wrote and produced just five of the 26 tracks on the album, and none of those tracks are individually notable, so it's hard to see how he passes WP:COMPOSER or WP:MUSICBIO. Just because kollegekidd.com has been used in other articles doesn't mean it's a reliable source – it doesn't say anything about the editorial team on the website so it's hard to verify the claim that it has editorial oversight. Richard3120 (talk) 19:45, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. So Why 12:45, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kusaba Haisen

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Fails WP:NARTIST and WP:NSCHOLAR. DrStrauss talk 15:17, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep and expand with content from the Japanese version. I can't read Japanese, but from what I can tell using google translate, there are enough sources for an article. Worldcat also shows holdings; try looking for Haisen Kusaba. Mduvekot (talk) 20:19, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - As a historical figure born in the 18th century, he's not going to be easy to judge using WP:NSCHOLAR (no h-index for him!). But one strong indication that he is notable is how much he has appeared in published encyclopedias and dictionaries. Here is his entry on Kotobank, which is a database of major Japanese encyclopedias run by the Asahi Shimbun, one of Japan's major newspapers. Here alone there are digested entries from six separate encyclopedias published by major publishing houses, including, I might add major word dictionaries (it is like him appearing in Webster's). Here is a list of recent academic articles on him using the CiNii database (a government sponsored academic database that is not complete, by the way). I can't access those now, but it is clear he is a historical figure that is considered notable by other encyclopedias and the scholarly community in Japan. Michitaro (talk) 00:40, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was No consensus after two relists. (non-admin closure) Jax 0677 (talk) 17:09, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kam Franklin

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Fails WP:BASIC, WP:ANYBIO, and WP:MUSICBIO. A local singer with short mention in local media. No notable awards or charted songs. Magnolia677 (talk) 21:02, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - checking Google News I see that there are plenty of sources that can be added to the article. She is evidently considered a celebrity in Houston, which alone should justify the article, but it appears that she has achieved some notability outside of Houston too. And she has appeared on the David Letterman show. Robman94 (talk) 16:46, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have updated the article to include 24 citations from publishers such as BuzzFeed, Edmonton Journal, Idaho Statesman, Houston Press, KPRC-TV, Houston Chronicle, Houstonia (magazine) and Consequence of Sound. Robman94 (talk) 22:41, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Very Weak Keep Checking with Google gives a considerable amount of references to notable sources, I don't find a lot of notability outside of Houston however. --84.198.33.98 (talk) 08:05, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment, yeah, the coverage is mainly in Houston, but there is a bit of national coverage in the Edmonton Journal, BuzzFeed and the Idaho Statesman. Robman94 (talk) 21:54, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Not Weak This is valid, she is a lead singer of a band that has a released known album. Why would this reference of the lead singer of the The Suffers band be deleted just because one person believes it's invalid. Is Wikipedia about data, or some random persons view on validation.
Delete not enough sourcing to show she passes notability criteria for musicians.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:59, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 10:48, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dynamic XML

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Dicdef, sources do not appear to be reliable. Article managed to go nearly 8 years without a single edit, suggesting that this is not a notable topic. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:11, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete just a dictionary definition, lacks encyclopedic content. Jjjjjjdddddd (talk) 19:49, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete There are scattered uses of the term in the literature, e.g., [72], but I cannot find good secondary RS talking about this class of documents. I don't see a good redirect target either. Hence delete. --Mark viking (talk) 03:08, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. non-notable. DaveApter (talk) 16:38, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 01:00, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mexico International University

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Not notable, untouched entirely since 2009 Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 21:13, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Secondary (or higher) school OF CONFIRMED EXISTENCE. Keep per longstanding consensus at AfD that articles on such entities are automatically retained. Carrite (talk) 16:05, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment It takes slightly more than confirmed existence to guarantee notability. Is it accredited by the authorities? Does it have full-time students or classrooms or employees? Is it more than someone in their bedroom selling certificates? I tried to search for information but I don't know enough about Mexican education to know where you would find this kind of thing (rankings, directories, list of accredited institutions, etc), and the monitor.com.mx link wasn't working when I tried it. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:51, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:36, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Tango of Our Childhood

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Tagged for speedy deletion as copyvio, fixed and tag removed but still fails WP:NFILM. DrStrauss talk 21:36, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep --passes WP:NFILM. (I've added a few references of which there were none at the time of nomination). The films stars two prominent actors of Soviet-Armenian Cinema, one of whom received an award for the film at the 1985 Venice Film Festival. The director (although lacking a Wikipedia page} appears to be significant in Armenian Cinema [73]. The film is mentioned as "famous" or his "best" film. [74], [75]. It was recently covered by the Sputnik News Agency [76]. Because it's a pre-internet film from Soviet Armenia, it's likely that sources exist in foreign-language papers or books that are not online. (WP:NEXIST) — CactusWriter ^(talk) 17:09, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep as it has reliable sources coverage as shown in last post such as sig cov in Sputsnik News Agency Atlantic306 (talk) 17:13, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep CactusWriter is exactly correct about this notable film from Soviet era Armenia. --Arxiloxos (talk) 00:49, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per recent article improvements & as meeting WP:NFILM. K.e.coffman (talk) 06:34, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus is that there is not enough independent source material to write an article on this company at present. – filelakeshoe (t / c)  14:26, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Satish Sugars

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Does not appear to pass WP:CORP. No other references other than company website, search on google news does not yield any good sources. Darylgolden^(talk) Ping when replying 05:43, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: While the article's references are currently lacking, a quick search found several references that are independent and reasonably in-depth: [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] --Hazarasp (talk) 05:54, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: To the extent that coverage mentioning this firm is available, it tends to be about concerns about concentrated politico-economic power and payment levels to farmers ([82], [83]). Of such matters, there is no mention in the article, which reads like a corporate website and is a good illustration of why articles written by connected contributors tend to be deficient in meeting WP:NPOV. AllyD (talk) 13:01, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - there are no independent references in the article, and it is promotional, violating WP:NOT. Smallbones_(smalltalk) 14:22, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: It is possible that a WP:NPOV article could be achieved by stripping out or rebalancing the article material which sings the praises of the company with the other coverage which I mentioned above. However even if volunteer effort was to be committed to such remedial work, it is not clear that what would be left would be more than a note of a WP:RUNOFTHEMILL company. Fails WP:CORPDEPTH. AllyD (talk) 08:06, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: few independent, reliable sources have covered the company in any depth. This is a review aggregator site with no editorial oversight and this, while from the Times of India, is merely an auto-generated sorting list. The only source which gives any sort of valuable media attention is this but still fails depth of coverage standards. DrStrauss talk 09:03, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Applying TNT to see what is left… L3X1 (distænt write) 12:32, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Answer: not much. GNG. L3X1 (distænt write) 14:12, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 12:04, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kepler-124b

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Not notable per WP:NASTRO. No peer-reviewed coverage of this specific object, or of a small number of objects including this system. All coverage is of bulk exoplanet discoveries. No significant popular press coverage. No claims to notability in the article. Lithopsian (talk) 18:44, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. I wish there was significant information about the planet. But the article contains nothing but entries pulled from a table, doesn't need an article for that. The only information not already present under List of exoplanets discovered using the Kepler spacecraft seems to be derived numbers, which probably qualify as WP:OR anyway. Tarl N. (discuss) 23:18, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As the author of the article I have a few things to say. When I originally made the article I knew it was a somewhat obscure topic, but I made it because if anybody ever needed the information, it would've already been conglomerated into a Wikipedia article. Only one of my sources contained a table which had lots of information and the other 2 citations were to regular webpages. Finally I see no reason why integrating real numbers and statistics into my article from reliable sources that I cited, isn't original research. Besides those reasons, I do somewhat agree with what you said about the List of exoplanets discovered using the Kepler spacecraft but at the same time the list only mentions a handful of the things my article did and doesn't have pictures either. In the future if someone wanted to contribute new information about Kepler-124b to Wikipedia, it would be much easier to add a sentience or 2 to an article then to add a whole new column to a list to less effectively contribute their facts. It's easier to convey complicated information and more of it, if it's written down rather than a table entry. In the future if more, noteworthy information is discovered regarding Kepler-124b an article will be of even more importance. If the article seems bare it's because there is almost no information about the planet online currently, but like I said in the future it's highly likely, there will be more discovered on this topic which offers no reason to delete the article just to have it rewritten.Grapefruit17 (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment I did find this topic interesting enough to edit the article, but unfortunately I couldn't find much more information than was already included. I read through WP:NASTRO and the discussions on the talk page about exoplanets, and the discussion seems somewhat split on whether or not exoplanets are notable in and of themselves. Certainly the first several were, but now that they are becoming more common, some fall on the side of requiring independent coverage (essentially following NASTRO) and others on the side of keeping all exoplanets that meet certain objective observable criteria (no consensus was reached regarding the exact criteria). If pressed for a !vote I would probably err on the side of keeping it, as honestly this is the sort of thing I would probably use Wikipedia to find (being an astronomy nerd since I was a little kid), but I realize that I'm very likely in the minority on this one. Cthomas3 (talk) 03:58, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The topic itself is quite interesting, it's very difficult to say keep or delete in this case. I use WP a lot to find information which you sometimes can't find on other sites. In this case I love WP as it at least shows some info in one place. I actually prefer to keep it but it's not easy to justify it here.--ClrView (talk) 08:33, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Since the article had been put up for deletion I've been checking in on this discussion and the article itself. I recently found that that article had undergone major revisions that in my opinion greatly improved the article. My stance on weather or not the page should be deleted is still the same(keep), but now that it's been edited it seems to be on par in terms of quality with pages not currently on the possible deletion list. Like I said in my previous comment, Wikipedia is often used to find information on obscure things, and in the near future a lot more could be discovered in regards to exoplanets.Grapefruit17 (talk) 14:18, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Improved or not, the article still has effectively no information that is not already in List of exoplanets discovered using the Kepler spacecraft - in reality, it can't, the information doesn't exist. In addition, there are problems with the references:
- - Open Exoplanet Catalogue is effectively a wiki. Not allowed as a source on Wikipedia.
  - The Extrasolar Planet Encyclopedia reference is effectively an infobox, information already on the list.
  - Exoplorer is a single-author hobby site. Not allowed as a source on Wikipedia.
  - The Planetary Society has no information about kepler-124b, it's simply fluff about finding exoplanets.

There is only one usable source for the article, and the information it has replicates what is already in the list of exoplanets. There's no point in expanding a line from a table into a full article if we don't have additional information to provide. Tarl N. (discuss) 07:56, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 12:06, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bill Wambach

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Holding the national record at a certain age doesn't pass WP:ATHLETE ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 09:58, 15 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete national record at x-age group is not a sign of notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:51, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Power~enwiki (talk) 03:02, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Adore (Cashmere Cat song)

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Non-notable song. No target article to redirect too That man from Nantucket (talk) 13:08, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: It meets all the guidelines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SahabAliwadia (talk • contribs) 13:15, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - The song ranked on Belgium Urban, US Billboard Hot 100, and US Digital Songs (Billboard). It most certainly is notable. Meatsgains (talk) 01:37, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
SNOW Keep - Seriously? It charted in multiple locations. Jdcomix (talk) 11:16, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per WP:NSONG. – electricController 15:53, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. czar 07:40, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Kashmira Kulkarni

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Non-notable actress. Google search turns up the usual vanity hits, but no in-depth coverage. No reliable independent references. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:31, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This was already A7'd once after being submitted by same originator, but let's give her a chance via the AFD route this time. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:46, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - As per nominator, the subject lacks independent coverage in reliable sources. Meatsgains (talk) 01:38, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete -- the article contains 0 (as in: none) encyclopedic prose. We should expect better from Wiki articles. K.e.coffman (talk) 05:14, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 16:11, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Henry Radusky

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The page previously contained a variety of controversies surrounding the individual's architectural projects, that do not necessarily reflect personal controversies. Furthermore, upon searching for information about the individual, little information (besides that from the NYC Office of Professions and a LinkedIn profile) appears. It is therefore my proposal that the page be deleted as its subject is not sufficiently notable. --Hunterm267^Talk 21:58, 9 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - most of the deleted content was not focussing on Radusky, but on a coatrack-y listing of projects he was involved in as architect - with lots of irrelevant details. Radusky is only mentioned in passing in his obvious role as architect, none of the sources offers additional relevant biographical information. The general problem with the underlying certification process is sufficiently mentioned in Self-Certification (New York City Department of Buildings), but a Wiki-article should not serve as a directory or "list of shame" of such incidents without sufficient topic-related context. On a sidenote, several other related articles have also been edited in an apparent attempt to raise more awareness for these problems in New York City (WP:NOTADVOCACY applies). Removing these coatrack details, the remaining content and sources directly about Radusky are not sufficient to establish notability. GermanJoe (talk) 17:27, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ - Pretty clearly a notable architect in NYC as a founder of Bricolage Design, see, for example THIS PIECE in the Village Voice and THIS PIECE in the New York Daily News would indicate. Meets GNG. Carrite (talk) 18:27, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete This appears to be a WP:MILL architect, and the article as written has no working references. Power~enwiki (talk) 01:56, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:CREATIVE. After all the controversial material was removed, it is also became apparent the subject fails WP:GNG as well.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:35, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Fuck it, this has been held over FIVE times. Not supposed to happen that way. I will get out of the way. Carrite (talk) 01:25, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Cloud9#Current Roster . -- RoySmith (talk) 00:45, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Stewie2K

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Struggling to find any independent in-depth coverage in reliable sources. Edwardx (talk) 16:34, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep added a few sources. User:Tetizeraz. Send me a ✉️ ! 17:45, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Locked redirect to Cloud9#Current Roster The only confirmed facts we know about him are his birthdate and winnings. Also, that redirect shows this was recreated after a G10 deletion under another title (the K here is capitalized). I'd usually ask for SPEEDY, but this is WP:CHEAP. Nate • (chatter) 02:24, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Every video game reliable source only indicates passing mentions. Nate's path forward is reasonable. --Izno (talk) 14:57, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - If this is all the sources and content we've got, it should be merge/directed to his respective team - it's better covered there. Sergecross73 msg me 15:45, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - Following Nate's suggestion and consensus of others._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 16:12, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. So Why 12:45, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Carrie Hawks

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WP:BLP of an artist and designer, whose only stated claim of notability is that she got a project development grant in 2014. This is not based on any reliable source coverage about her -- of the three sources here, two are primary sources and one is a transcript of a Q&A interview on a podcast. As always, every person is not automatically entitled to a Wikipedia article just because she and her work exist -- she must be the subject of enough reliable source coverage to verify that she passes WP:CREATIVE for something. Bearcat (talk) 16:51, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep for now. Delete without prejudice to recreation if more sources become available. It appears that the the movie that the grant was intended to support has now been released. It has received some coverage, including the New York Times, which is a bit "thin". I've added a more substantial source to the article. There might be more sources, I'm still looking. Mduvekot (talk) 18:36, 22 August 2017 (UTC) Update: struck weak keep. I was unable to find any additional sources. It is probably WP:TOOSOON. Mduvekot (talk) 11:42, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
keep I think the NYT article along with the award makes her notable for WP:BLP — Preceding unsigned comment added by KindleReader (talk • contribs) 21:35, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. good nomination, as the artist's notability is not established by diverse reliable sources, nor museum collections, nor significant shows. Sources and notability are thin.104.163.140.99 (talk) 01:31, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete clearly does not meet any of our guidelines for articles on artists.John Pack Lambert (talk) 07:56, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails GNG. L3X1 (distænt write) 04:09, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 06:29, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Liberal Party of Canada candidates, 1940 Canadian federal election

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As a compromise position at a time when the notability of non-winning election candidates was still a matter of debate, consensus started to permit non-winning candidates to be given mini-bio subsections in merged lists. So I'll grant that all of these were good faith creations at the time. However, consensus has now deprecated that, so that lists of this type are now permitted only to follow the table format demonstrated by Liberal Party of Canada candidates, 2015 Canadian federal election: their names can be present in the table, but per WP:BIO1E we're not allowed to maintain an entire biographical mini-article about each individual candidate anymore. Non-winning candidates simply aren't a matter of enduring public interest for that fact itself — if they're not notable enough for a standalone article, then they shouldn't have the content equivalent of a standalone article embedded into a list either. None of these lists are even comprehensive — the closest to a complete list in the entire bunch is 2006, which includes just 13 candidates out of a possible 308. If there were actually any editorial will to get these cleaned up for comprehensiveness and the removal of the biographical sketches, then I'd happily leave them alone — but that cleanup simply isn't and hasn't been happening at all, so the ones that aren't conforming to the rules they have to conform to need to go. Bearcat (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment I've updated the 1940 article to the proper format (for one province), and I'll suggest that the nomination for that page should be withdrawn accordingly. I could add the other provinces and update the other pages as well (though not right away); given that the subject matter is considered encyclopedic, I'm wondering if it would make sense to simply move the pages out of the main article space until such time as they've been properly updated. CJCurrie (talk) 05:10, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be willing to support that alternative as well. Bearcat (talk) 15:28, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep All - Bearcat is completely misrepresenting BIO1E when they say we are "not allowed to maintain an entire biographical mini-article about each individual candidate anymore." That is nowhere in the guideline, nor should it be — I would advocate IAR to trump any such nonsense even if that were in the guidelines, which it is not. The rest of the nomination is purely an editing matter. Carrite (talk) 18:04, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am not misrepresenting anything whatsoever. The rule for candidates most certainly is that if they do not qualify for a standalone article, then we are not allowed to simply paste the same depth of content about them into another article and keep it just because that other article is titled as a list instead of a standalone bio. BIO1E and BLP1E apply to all articles which contain information about people, not just to standalone biographical articles titled with an individual person's name — lists of people are still subject to the exact same content policies that govern what we can or cannot say about a person in any other article that might contain biographical information. And as for cleaning them up being an editing matter, the issue has been lingering for years without anybody taking on the task of doing anything about it — there is a point beyond which "could be cleaned up" ceases to be a compelling rationale anymore for keeping content that isn't getting cleaned up. And I suppose YMMV, but at least to me seven years of nobody actually caring about cleaning these up does fall on the blow it up and start over side of that line. Bearcat (talk) 18:01, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep nowhere in 1E does it say that such "mini-articles" are not permitted. As Carrite already said, this is a gross misrepresentation. CJK09 (talk) 21:05, 26 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

1E doesn't have to specifically mention "mini-articles" to be applicable — it deprecates maintaining any extended biographical content at all about 1E's beyond mentioning their name where it's contextually relevant to do so, and doesn't have to individually readdress every possible form that such deprecated content might be presented in. Bearcat (talk) 15:59, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Strong delete mini articles about candidates who did not win are clearly against our policy and guidelines.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:07, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notability policies only apply to articles, not sections within articles. In fact, it is entirely appropriate and in many cases recommended to merge such non-notable topics into sections within a larger, notable article. And in any case, AFD is not cleanup, and if the topic is notable, which nobody has explained why it isn't and even Bearcat implied that it is by citing, and not nominating, an article that is in the so-called "proper" format, then it should be kept and cleaned up. Smartyllama (talk) 19:34, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Again, this has been over seven years of not getting cleaned up, and there has to be a deadline beyond which if an article still hasn't been cleaned up it doesn't get to sit around anymore continuing to wait for cleanup that isn't happening. And secondly, notability policies do apply to sections within articles; for example, a "list of people from city" is not allowed to contain non-notable entries at all, and articles are not allowed to contain extended biographical sketches of people who are named in them but don't qualify for standalone BLPs. Bearcat (talk) 23:46, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong. See WP:NODEADLINE. Smartyllama (talk) 12:51, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That's a user essay, not a binding policy, so I'm entirely within my right to have and express different views as long as I explain my reasoning in depth (which I did) and don't just rest on "I can ignore that just because it's an essay" arguments (which I didn't). Bearcat (talk) 15:51, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all. These candidates could be listed in individual election articles, but there's no justification for lumping them all together in one big list. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:49, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- You mean exactly what was done? There are separate articles for each election. I'm not sure what you're suggesting, or what you think is being done here. Smartyllama (talk) 12:51, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, there are separate articles for each election already — Clarityfiend's whole point was that those articles vitiate the need to maintain these articles alongside those. Bearcat (talk) 15:53, 30 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep notable subject. The rest might be an editing issue if it is a real issue at all. Agathoclea (talk) 13:32, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It most certainly is a real issue, and these people are not notable subjects. Bearcat (talk) 21:13, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep The notability guidelines relate solely to what topics are suitable for an entire article and have nothing to say about what information may, or may not, be included as part of a broader article. Thincat (talk) 19:33, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Our notability standards most bloody certainly do govern what can or cannot be included as part of a broader article. BLP1E/BIO1E, for instance, do not just apply to standalone biographies, but govern how much we are or are not allowed to say about an individual who falls under it in any article: an article about an event is not allowed to contain BLP1E-related biographies of individual participants in it; an article about a company is not allowed to maintain biographical sketches of individual people who work at that company, and on and so forth. Our standards for the notability of individual people pertain to all articles, and not only to standalone biographies titled with a person's own name. Bearcat (talk) 21:13, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That is, I think, mistaken. WP:BLP policy certainly applies everywhere but you cited WP:BIO1E which is part of the notability guidelines. WP:N says (nutshell) " The notability guideline does not determine the content of articles, but only whether the topic should have its own article." The first paragraph says "On Wikipedia, notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a given topic warrants its own article." It also says "although editors may, at their discretion, choose to limit large lists by only including entries for independently notable items or those with Wikipedia articles." so this is a matter for talk page consensus, not deletion. WP:BIO1E is part of WP:Notability (people) which in general refers back to WP:N. Here, I accept, the nutshell says "Notability criteria may need to be met for a person to be included in a standalone list article." (italics added). WP:Stand-alone lists is referred to which simply suggests what might be done "typically". BLP apart, all this is guidance and people should read and understand it as best they can and then form a considered opinion. Such matters are decided by consensus and people are not to have their !votes rejected if they do not !vote in a particular way. The hard rules you refer to do not exist. People are allowed (but are not required) to adopt strict rules for notability though the guidelines suggest not to do this. If there are BLP matters that is another matter entirely and potentially contentious material must be referenced or removed. Thincat (talk) 16:57, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, there is no rule that we can't maintain a list of the candidates — there is a legitimate question as to whether such lists are necessary if they simply reduplicate information already present in the election's basic results tables, but that's a separate matter from this. But the rules do dictate that the list cannot contain extended biographies of any individual candidate who doesn't qualify to have a full standalone biography located at his or her own name — if a person does not qualify for a full standalone biography located at their own name, then keeping the exact same content about them, just because the article's title isn't their name, is not an alternative path to retention. Bearcat (talk) 14:09, 9 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - Come on, closer, step up to the plate. This is not a hard call. Carrite (talk) 10:33, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Power~enwiki (talk) 03:01, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Joburg Giants

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Per WP:NSPORT. I may be missing some criteria that would allow for a team like this to meet WP guidelines, but how could a team that's never had a professional match be notable enough for it's own WP page? It seems WP:TOOSOON for this team to have it's own page - at the very least additional sources needed to be provided to substantiate claims of notability. Comatmebro (talk) 18:10, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to T20 Global League and merge the other seven teams too. The league's inaugural season is set to start in November 2017, so notability by then is about as certain as it can be, but until it actually happens the various team articles are not yet substantive enough to exist as separate articles. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 20:00, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge Agreed as per Dodger67's points, not crystal ball and all that. There will be enough to kick it off to its own article soon enough Drewmutt (^ᴥ^) talk 21:49, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The league is starting to take shape, with the teams being announced right now. This details the head coach, with other information to come in the near future. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 18:14, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Update - squads now announced. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 09:29, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as squads are announed and the team is likely to play T20GL. Greenbörg (talk) 09:58, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Changing to Snow Keep as events of the last few days have overtaken the argument for deletion. There has been a lot of recent press coverage of matters relating to the teams in the tournament, such as squad selections, match schedule, and other details. There was always a fairly good chance that notability would firm up before this AFD could close. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 11:31, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. So Why 12:44, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rachel Levitsky

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Advertorially toned WP:BLP of a writer, based almost entirely on primary sources with very little evidence of reliable source coverage shown at all -- out of 36 footnotes here, literally one of them represents a reliable source writing about her in the third person and even that one's a blurb. No prejudice against recreation in the future if she can be written and sourced properly, but nothing claimed here entitles her to an automatic presumption of notability per WP:AUTHOR just because she exists if the sourcing isn't there. Bearcat (talk) 20:13, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep The article is still problematic for the reasons stated and needs more referenced detail on her activities as an arts administrator and academic. But there's enough to indicate her significance as a poet. She has received 2 lengthy reviews in Jacket (magazine), one in Hyperallergic, and a short review in Publishers Weekly, as well as mentions (and praise) in New Yorker, Brooklyn Rail, American Reader, etc. --Colapeninsula (talk) 11:20, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to List of Star Wars species (U–Z)#Yuuzhan Vong. So Why 12:42, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yuuzhan Vong

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Wikipedia is not Wikia. Star Wars race not from the movies, but from an expanded universe novel. Entirely unnotable. Sorry ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 10:26, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete or possibly merge. As pointed out, there's a difference between Wikipedia and wikia Pupsbunch (talk) 19:04, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Star Wars species (U–Z)#Yuuzhan Vong. I'm seeing little to justify a separate article. Josh Milburn (talk) 18:07, 23 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to List of Star Wars species (U–Z)#Yuuzhan Vong per J. Milburn. Aoba47 (talk) 02:31, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 21:02, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sarah Gregory (singer)

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Delete or merge with Glenn Gregory. Insufficiently notable in her own right; promotional vibe detected. Quis separabit? 23:35, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete does not in any way pass notability guidelines for musicians.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:13, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. WP:REFUND applies. So Why 12:40, 6 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rudi London

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nn artist. Tagged 2009 & 2016. No independent in-depth coverage cited. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:09, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) J 947^{^{^{(c) (m)}}} 18:33, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Shoppers Stop

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nn business. Nothing changed since the prev Afd: Sources are routine PR coverage Staszek Lem (talk) 00:14, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – Google Books results are providing multiple instances of significant coverage in reliable sources for this WP:LISTED company. The article does not have a particularly promotional tone at this time. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:55, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep - Consensus can change, but I think the previous AfD discussion is still valid. WP:NEXIST applies here, and as North America points out, the article (while short) seems to be in at least a non-WP:TNT state. Cthomas3 (talk) 01:10, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep notable retail chain; supported by sources.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:12, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This is a very famous chain of apparel stores in India. I know it may be hard to understand for others, but Shoppers Stop is a well known brand, just like Pantaloons Fashion & Retail. It was one of the first "mega stores" when the malls started proliferating across India.--DreamLinker (talk) 19:49, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep with clear consensus, nac, SwisterTwister talk 05:55, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ihor Ševčenko

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Poorly referenced bio (tagged since 2013) of dubious notability. The award cited is nn itself: some personal foundation award Staszek Lem (talk) 00:19, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:43, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jax 0677 (talk) 17:13, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. WP:BEFORE. It takes one rudimentary search to find a detailed William Grimes-written news obit in The New York Times describing him as "a leading scholar of Byzantine and Slavic history and literature" and noting his unusual collaboration with George Orwell in the creation of the first Ukranian edition of Animal Farm along with other notable works. [84] And here's an equally detailed Boston Globe obit.[85] Passes WP:ACADEMIC and WP:GNG easily. --Arxiloxos (talk) 19:37, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- clear pass of WP:PROF & WP:GNG. In addition to the obits listed above, the Harvard Gazette has an in-depth article: Longtime Harvard professor and Byzantine specialist dies at 87. Plenty of citations in GBooks. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:33, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. K.e.coffman (talk) 02:33, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Snow keep. High GS cites for a low-cited field passes WP:Prof. Suggest withdraw this misguided nomination. Xxanthippe (talk) 03:16, 19 September 2017 (UTC).[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Α Guy into Books™ § (Message) - 14:38, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Antonovych prize

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Nonnotable prize by nonnotable personal foundation. Ukrainian wikipedia artcile does not clarify notability.Staszek Lem (talk) 00:22, 29 August 2017 (UTC) Staszek Lem (talk) 00:22, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As usual for such topics it's tricky. I'm inclined to agree, but then I find two sources that mention the prize and seem to indicate its importance (this and this). They're Google snippets and thus totally useless for article creation, but I have to go with weak keep here because this suggests that there may be more--just not in English, and not easily accessible. Sorry Staszek. Drmies (talk) 00:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ukraine-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 09:09, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep a news archive search turned up ~a dozen article in The Ukrainian Weekly; I sourced the basic facts about the prize in the lede to one of these articles.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:34, 29 August 2017 (UTC)'[reply]

Plus stuff like this: [86].E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:38, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I should expand on that last comment by saying that when notable people like Timothy D. Snyder turn up in person to accept an award, it validates the award in a way. As does the fact that they hand the winner a check for $10,000. I'm not citing a guideline, just the info that made me take this article seriously enough to look for sources.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:51, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Whether recipients up for their awards can be a pretty good dividing line to use, about awards. I recall AFDs about movie awards given by movie critic groups in North Carolina and other places, which are simply not in the same league as the Oscars, say, as exemplified by the fact that they just announced their awards, no world/national actors/directors/etc. showed up to receive them. On that basis the movie critic group article was deleted, IIRC. "It's not a real award if the recipients don't show up to receive them" could be a guideline to record somewhere. --do ncr am 20:55, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Drmies and E.M.Gregory. --do ncr am 16:12, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
comment Whatever you say guys, but IMO the fact is it fails WP:GNG: in-depth coverage in independent sources. None of the links provided here qualify. I did my due diligence as well. Staszek Lem (talk) 00:25, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947^{^{^{(c) (m)}}} 18:33, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Although the award is not well-represented in the English-language media, this is one of the most important such awards for original literary works and research in Ukraine. The prize is frequently referred to as "the Ukrainian Nobel Prize" for the high standard it sets (see here: http://www.umoloda.kiev.ua/number/1029/116/37121/). The founding jury members were George G. Grabowicz of Harvard University (https://faculty.slavic.fas.harvard.edu/george-grabowicz), the prominent poet of the New York Group Bohdan Rubczak (see here: http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CR%5CU%5CRubchakBohdan.htm and here: http://sites.utoronto.ca/elul/Struk-mem/Rubchak-Works/), and one of the most prominent 20th cent. scholars of Ukrainian literature, language, and culture Yuri (George) Shevelov (see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Shevelov). See here for more info on the Antonovych Foundation's activities in awarding the prize: https://zbruc.eu/node/57847. The prize is truly one of the most important institutions of supporting high-quality literary works and research in Ukrainian studies. To say that it's "non-notable" is an offense to the attempts of the Ukrainian society to rid itself of the shameful practices of Soviet totalitarianism in literature and in humanities. KEEP! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.115.42.20 (talk) 20:27, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[:0-1] "Patrick Stewart Narrating New Documentary 'The Connected Universe'". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved 2017-09-03.

[2] "Vancouver documentary breaks crowdfunding record on Indiegogo". The Globe and Mail. 2015-02-04. Retrieved 2017-09-03.

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