Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 18:22, 8 July 2009

Request name	Initiated	Votes
ADHD edits	6 July 2009	{{{votes}}}
Kosovska Mitrovica naming dispute	5 July 2009	{{{votes}}}
Use of "disputed territories", "occupied territories" and related terminology in the context of the Arab-Israeli dispute	1 July 2009	{{{votes}}}
DreamHost	30 June 2009	{{{votes}}}
[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Leonese Language - numbers of speakers\|Leonese Language - numbers of speakers]]	8 July 2009	{{{votes}}}

[edit]

Open cases

Currently, no arbitration cases are open.

[edit]

Recently closed cases (Past cases)

Case name	Closed
Historical elections	13 Sep 2024

Clarification and Amendment requests

Request name	Motions	Case	Posted
Amendment request: Definition of the "area of conflict" Clause 4 (b)	Motion	(orig. case)	26 July 2024
Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles (AE referral)	Motion	(orig. case)	17 August 2024
Clarification request: Conduct in deletion-related editing	none	(orig. case)	8 September 2024

Arbitrator motions

No arbitrator motions are currently open.

ADHD edits

Initiated by Cityzen451 (talk) at 16:59, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

cityzen451 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), filing party
MrOllie (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Dolfrog (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Gordonofcartoon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by Cityzen451

The parties involved removed all contributions of a user which began with an attempt to update and adhd book reference articles on dyslexia and ADHD

the dyslexia section the user removed the inclusion of a further reading section, and references to popular reading for the subject where advertising is not relevant with respect to a book listing and bias toward a book simply because it published createspace. The contributor to the article on Dyslexia seems to have taken propritory of the article and I have observed them deleting any and all contributions to the article. It would seem that their view of the structure of the article is their concern

one party mrOllie went on to delete every contribution I have ever made to wikipedia, in wholely unrelated articles!

I have read the section on levels of conflict resolution and in the circustances I outline they are not mandatory, givensince took it upon themselves to delete all entries I have ever made! Because my username is the same as the doamin for an older entry I made is not STRONG evidence of conflict of conflict it is circumstantial evidence. However, The issue was disputed last year and a compromise was made, to delete all that work out of hand is malicious. I chose Cityzen451 as a username because it was a domain for a piece of software based on my research. As for the issue of Conflict of Interest, from what I have read there is no rule that you cannot contribute if you are involved, just that caution should be excercised.

I am also concerned as to why uninvloved users without real reason to comment or get invloved, it seems they are more interested in stopping an arbitration than resolving a dispute. It has to be considered that this is wasting my time too

I apologise for not using the correct talk page... had someone directed me in this direction I would have used it. All atempts at approaching the editors were ignored.

It could have been suggested that I remove the links to Amazon, since that is not an issue

this is Not an "Edit War", that is purely an exageration, if contributions have been reverted only a few times, as It is common to simply revert a statement back since it avoids conflict with overly officious users, who take it upon themselves to overly police articles, or those who have taken unsolicited ownership of them. if the objection is made then as discussion ensues. an "edit war" is if this persists over time, which it hasnt, and will not. I have attempted to discuss it civily and tried to discuss it with contributors, albeit incorrectly, you have to give users scope to learn. But to delete all prior entries in response to that is simply childish and malicious. This is an issue that is specifically for Arbitration.

You do not just go through someones contributions and delete them all, without discussing it with someone this is the main point of the arbitration, not the recent contributions, you just dont do that. There is not point considering other approaches when face with that kind or reaction.

I feel it is inappropriate other users who contribute to the articles in question put forward objections without clearly pointing out they have a conflict of interest (that they are editors and very much involved in the arbitration) jumping onboard and trying to bully the decison, and flinging mud with partial interpretations of wikipedia guidelines, I feel the arbitrators are well able to look into these issues, and other members claiming to be impartial not involved should wait for a review and not attempt to muddy the waters from the main issue. The issue of arbitration is not a matter of voting. The Arbitrator will surely look at the evidence themselves I now discover that an edited entry in conflicts of interest has been added, with my signature ...20:45, 6 July 2009... which I did not write... taken from the above text... yet the signature below is 18:59 can anyone explain this please?

I now discover that an edited entry in conflicts of interest has been added, with my signature ...20:45, 6 July 2009... which I did not write... taken from the above text... yet the signature below is 18:59 can anyone explain this please?

Cityzen451 (talk) 18:59, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Gordonofcartoon

I'm involving myself as a party to state my view that arbitration is inappropriate. Cityzen451 has not tried lower levels of dispute resolution. The username is also strong evidence that there's a conflict of interest involved: see WP:COIN#Cityzen451. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 17:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update: having seen his posts so far, I strongly suspect that the intention of Cityzen451 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is primarily disruptive wikilawyering, trolling even. There is no justification whatsoever for a new user to jump straight to an arbitration request. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 19:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by WhatamIdoing (uninvolved)

Cityzen451 has been edit warring to include specific out-of-mainstream books, with links to Amazon.com's website, in ==Further reading== sections at Dyslexia [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] and ADHD [6]. The list has been removed by multiple editors. The other editors are right to remove undiscussed books that they consider fringe-y and unimportant, and especially to remove the inappropriate links to the booksellers (per WP:ELNO #5 and #15 and Template:Cite book#Description ("Do not use this field to link to any commercial booksellers (such as Amazon.com)").

Cityzen451's efforts at dispute resolution to date have been wholly inadequate: brief conversations on the individual editor's talk pages. Not a word at either article talk page, no RfCs, nothing -- just an edit war, a complaint about "all my contributions being deleted", and the filing here. I think this request should be promptly rejected. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:43, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by WLU (uninvolved)

Endorse User:WhatamIdoing's summary. Also, books are uniformly of low-quality, not the scholarly, extensive, expert and comprehensive volumes that a further reading section would require. They look like popular how-to manuals. Arbitration entered into far too quickly, this is a waste of time. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 17:19, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dolfrog

The dyslexia article is the main article of the WIKI Dyslexia Project, and in the last two months it has been edited to become a Summary Article with new sub categories and sub articles to provide more indepth information about dyslexia, thus enabling the main article to become more navigable for the reader and casual reader. The content of the books in question do not match the content of content of the Summary Dyslexia article as a whole, and it was suggested to Cityzen451 that a better place to add his further reading which he chose to ignore respective sub dyslexia artilces and this is not the correct article in the dyslexia project for them The probably most suitable sub article for this book to be added as further reading, if the other project editors agree, would be the dyslexia sub Category Management of dyslexia main article. There was no discussion on any of the dyslexia talk pages about adding these books to the project pages prior to this Wikipedia Request for Arbitration. Cityzen451 did post a message on my User talk:Dolfrog the first attempt "dogfrog queries on dyslexia listing" was edited 3 times and then deleted by Cityzen451, but reverted the delete. Cityzen451 started a new section "references to books in the Dyslexia article" I made one reply which was making constructive suggestions as to where these books may fit within the dyslexia projects articles. and the next reply was notification of the Arbitration.

Regarding the ADHD article, I am aware that this article has been radically revised in recent months, and that there have been many heated disputes regarding content between the editors most of which have now been resolved. So if Cityzen451 tried to add his content in a similar way on the ADHD article then I would imagine the editors there would consider the lack of discussion rude to say the least.

Statement By Cityzen451

Look I would like to remove this arbitration myself, can it be removed please.

I agree an rFC is appropriate, could someone advise me on this.

Briefly, my concerns are about having all content I have contributed to Wikipedia punatively deleted, and what appears to be an undercurrent policy that has formed to discourage new contributors. My concern is that Wikipedia is clearly moving away from what it is intended. In fact you are all probably aware of how the approachablity of Wikipedia is mocked.

The crux of my point is made clearly by Dogfrog, (dragged into Arbitration inappropriately) an additon of a further reading, now agreed... on the grounds of not consulting, for a relatively minor necessary contribution for a further reading section, yet how is the same justification for MrOllie in the same timeframe to go through all my contributions, and not just delete suposedly inappropriate references, but to remove all contribution to articles I have made, assuming bad faith. One rule for one...

I chose arbitration wrongly and apologise, but the way it has unfolded actually does show this.

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by non-recused Clerks.

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/5/0/0)

Decline - content dispute. Problematic conduct by any of the editors involved can be handled by uninvolved admins as needed. Carcharoth (talk) 23:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reject I'm not seeing the need for arbcom involvement at this point. WP:AN is probably a better venue at this point. If these actions occurred on arbitration case pages, the arb clerks would be quite capable of dealing with it. — Rlevse • Talk • 02:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline. Wizardman 05:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline. For the content dispute, please follow the dispute resolution guidance and use content noticeboards (such as here) to seek outside opinions. For the behavioral issues, nothing here seems beyond the ability of the administrators' noticeboard to handle. --Vassyana (talk) 06:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline with similar reason and advice as other arbitrators. FloNight ♥♥♥ 16:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kosovska Mitrovica naming dispute

Initiated by Interestedinfairness (talk) at 10:34, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

interestedinfairness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Dbachmann (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
Cinéma_C (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), filing party
Ev (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
NOAH (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Diff. 1 here here here and here
Diff. 2

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by interestedinfairness

There has been repeated discussion regarding the correct, and most widely recognized English spelling of the name for the city (currently spelled "Kosovska Mitrovica"). Certain users who were apposed to the renaming the article to "Mitrovica", have since come round to the idea. There remains however, no consensus or will, amongst administrators present in the discussion to take the initiative and rename the article. In fact, even the editors who acknowledge the correct English spelling of the city, have left the page without participating further in discussion after the consensus was reached here. I do not posses the know-how to change the name of the article and the direct, re-directs. Nevertheless, I think this is the correct route to take before any unilaterally actions. Interestedinfairness (talk) 22:24, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, who wrote this and presented it as my statement? --Cinéma C 17:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

user:Hersfold did (?). Interestedinfairness (talk) 22:24, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Response to dab: This is exactly what I'm talking about. No accountability or willingness to help new users like my self with content dispute or the right procedures to under take. The realities have changed with regards to the Mitrovica page and the old arb com ruling. I have given countless sources as per Wikipedia's naming convention and other editors and more worryingly administrators refuse to do anything about it. I agree with dab in the sense that this is not the place to be resolving content dispute however, when administrators are not willing to do anything in light of all the evidence I have provided in the talk page in favor of my proposal, then what am I to do? May I also point out that admin:dab agreed with my proposal before. Interestedinfairness (talk) 12:03, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Response to admins: Thanks for your responses. It should be a clear cut case as Wikipedia does offer a set of relatively easy tests to conduct in order to work out the most common English word. I have posted all the findings on the talk page but no one is willing to take it any further even after consensus between two of the most vociferous editors was reached. Its a shame I have to try out another procedure now -- *sighs*. Interestedinfairness (talk) 00:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

statement by Dbachmann

My involvement in this is pointing out proper procedure within WP:NAME to discuss arguable naming alternatives. My recommendations did not include "run to arbcom if you do not get your way". I do not have an opinion on which title is "better" and I am not interested in this arbcom case. I do not think that the arbcom should hear this, as it is a pure content dispute, like thousands of other toponymy article titles, there is more than one arguable location for this article, and it is purely a matter of consensus where the article will reside.

There aren't any points of user conduct here other than the more generic problems with tenacious Kosovo-related patriotic trolling. There already is an arbcom ruling on this, putting the topic under "article probation".

Interestedinfairness (talk · contribs) is certainly a candidate for {{User article ban arb}}, but since there is already a ruling on this, the matter would seem to stand to administrative discretion and does not need to take another loop through arbcom. --dab (𒁳) 08:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {Party 3}

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by non-recused Clerks.

Response to Cinema & interestedinfairness: My apologies, I'd assumed that the first statement would have been Cinema's as they're filed as the filing party above. Sorry for the confusion. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 02:33, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/6/0/1)

Tentative decline: As currently framed, this is a content dispute which is not within ArbCom's bailiwick. Roger Davies ^talk 14:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Awaiting statements. Please explain why a discussion at Wikipedia:Requested moves would not be a satisfactory venue for resolving this dispute. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:16, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline, I think going to WP:MEDCOM or elsewhere would help here. Wizardman 15:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline - even if it weren't a content dispute it would still be premature to reach the arbitration stage. -- FayssalF - ^{Wiki me up®} 16:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline premature. FloNight ♥♥♥ 17:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reject. Try a Centralized Discussion as was done in ARBMAC2, Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Macedonia — Rlevse • Talk • 23:00, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline - premature. This is still a low-level content dispute. Try mediation or get more opinions through a listing at Wikipedia:Requested moves. Carcharoth (talk) 23:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline. Premature. Please explore the various dispute resolution options. There are also noticeboards for geopolitical and ethnic disputes; original research, and evaluating source reliability, as well as proper weight and neutral presentation. There's also a content noticeboard for content issues that are not covered by more specific noticeboards. Please take advantage of these forums to garner some outside input and clarify the issues, while pursuing dispute resolution to reach consensus. Any conduct problems can be addressed by administrators, both within "everyday" policy and under the arbitration sanctions on the broader topic area. --Vassyana (talk) 06:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline. Other arbitrators have offered many venues of further discussion and dispute resolution which could be use. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 08:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Use of "disputed territories", "occupied territories" and related terminology in the context of the Arab-Israeli dispute

Initiated by Peter cohen (talk) at 12:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Peter cohen (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), filing party
Nsaum75 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Invited by Peter cohen
Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) named by User:Nsaum75, added also by User:Peter cohen
Oren0 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Urban469 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration/Placename_guidelines#Occupied_territories This is an attempted proposal via IPCOLL where unfortunagtely only two other editors have joined the discussion.
Talk:Golan_Heights#RfC:_Terminology_in_regards_to_the_Golan_Heights Attempted RFC in one article which generated suggestions during when open of violations of WP:MEAT, WP:SPA and WP:Canvass and a subsequent complaint against the appropriateness of the closing admin. (I also have issues with the conclusion, but will not raise content issues here.)

Statement by Peter cohen

There is a roving content dispute on the use of terminology regarding the Israeli-occupied territories. I have identified 20 threads spread over ten article talk pages where this or related terminology has been disputed this year. There are many older discussions too. (This search contains a high proportion of valid hits.)

I have previously started a thread at WP:IPCOLL to initiate a central discussion on the terminology but the level of participation there has been less than in several of the threads elsewhere. Although there is no currently unaddressed conduct issue in this area, the history of problematic behaviour over similar terminology is such that it is highly likely that things will reach a level where Arbcom intervention will be necessary at some point in the future. Further the related RfC at Talk:Golan Heights generated various accusations and suggestions of misconduct. I am therefore requesting that Arbcom take pre-emptive action and mandate that a centralised solution be created to the content issue along the lines of those being reached regarding the naming of Ireland articles and the use of "Judea and Samaria" etc.

Discussion pages where the "disputed" v "occupied" or related terminology has been discussed this year include:

discussion	first post	last post	duration
Talk:Golan_Heights#Pro-israeli.21_BIASED_article.21_Non_neutral	2009-01-01 19:38	2009-01-24 22:56
Talk:Status_of_territories_captured_by_Israel#Remove_Tag_Citing_Neutrality.2FAccuracy_Dispute	2008-01-27 08:35	2009-02-17 04:32
Talk:Avigdor_Lieberman/Archive_2#Cities.2FSettlements_in_occupied.2Fdisputed_territory	2009-02-20 14:01	2009-02-21 03:25	1 day
Talk:Palestinian_territories#Occupied_Palestinian_Territories_or_Palestinian_Territories.3F	2009-01-13 21:20	2009-02-27 07:47
Talk:Israeli-occupied_territories#reference_tag_broken	2009-03-09 04:15
Talk:Occupied_territories#A_modest_demand.	2009-04-18 06:09	2009-04-20 05:45	2 days
Talk:Jerusalem_Light_Rail#occupied_to_disputed_and_such	2009-04-19 17:37	2009-04-20 09:57	1 day
Talk:Golan_Heights#.22are_currently_part_of_the_State_of_Israel.22	2009-05-15 18:24	2009-05-15 19:42	1 hour
Talk:Israel/Archive_29#Disputed_Territories	2009-02-25	2009-05-24 19:23
Talk:Syria#Biased_Golan_heights_section_3	2009-03-27 04:42	2009-06-04 15:59
Talk:Golan_Heights#.22disputed.22_.22Jewish_communities.22	2009-05-26 07:40	2009-06-07 16:27
Talk:Ariel_(city)#Neutrality.3F	2009-05-25 04:05	2009-06-08 03:56
Talk:Golan_Heights#The_Neutrality_of_this_Article_is_Disputed	2009-06-10 15:59	2009-06-14 18:40
Talk:Golan_Heights#RfC:_Terminology_in_regards_to_the_Golan_Heights	2009-06-14 19:15	2009-06-23 07:14
Talk:Golan_Heights#Claims_of_occupation_in_the_lead	2009-06-23 08:13	2009-06-23 16:47
Talk:Golan_Heights#I_do_not_support_the_actions_and_views_of_Oren0_as_3rd_party	2009-06-23 08:51	2009-06-25 01:02
Talk:Golan_Heights#some_more_thing_left	2009-06-24 12:47	2009-06-25 08:18
Talk:Golan_Heights#occupied_territories	2009-06-26 02:44	2009-06-26 13:52
Talk:Israel#UN_Security_Council_Res._242_and_338_and_Disputed_Territories	2009-06-19 17:55	2009-06-28 15:35
Talk:Golan_Heights#Is_this_article_gonna_follow_the_rules_of_wikipedia_or_not.3F	2009-07-01 20:42

--Peter cohen (talk) 15:02, 1 July 2009 (UTC), most recent post 00:15, 2 July 2009[reply]

As requested below, I have now made a formatted list sorted by last edit and have also added a brand new entry which ahs appeared wince this request was opened.--Peter cohen (talk) 00:57, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I note the request below and elsewhere for aprties to be added. I was waiting for a reply to my question on the talk page here on whom to add and I have also been away from hte net for 50-60 hours. I've started adding people and will be posting notifications elsewhere tonight (UK time). More will be added tomorrow.--Peter cohen (talk) 21:19, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nsaum75

I am the editor who opened the RfC on Golan Heights[9]. The article had been subject to edit warring over terminology related to how the Golan should be described. Editors had been fighting over whether to refer to land area as "disputed" or "occupied" by Israel; there were also edit wars over whether or not to call the settlements established by Israel as "Israeli Settlements", "Jewish Communities" or "Illegal Settlements". In hopes of trying to create some progress in the debate, I felt that the RfC should be opened as to at least establish a consensus as to whether the land area should be referred to as "disputed", "occupied", or some other variation.

During the period of time that the RfC was open, a number of new editors (with little or no edit history) began making posts stating similar positions.

Examples: [[10]], [[11]], [[12]].

In addition to new editors, a significant number of IP addresses (with little or no edit history) began posting similar positions.

Examples: [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18].

At this point, I became concerned that there may be possible WP:MEAT, WP:SPA or WP:CANVASS involved, so I placed a neutral notice regarding Wikipedia's policies at the top of the RfC.[19], [20]. I also approached ANI and requested input regarding my concerns about possible WP:MEAT, SPA and CANVASS.[21]

After the RfC had been posted for a week, I made another post to the AN[22] requesting a neutral, 3rd party administrator check over the RfC and close it. This was met with disatisfaction by some editors, as the closing Admin had userboxes on his page that he was Jewish and supported the existance of an Israeli state.(see: Talk:Golan_Heights#I_do_not_support_the_actions_and_views_of_Oren0_as_3rd_party) It was argued that since the editor was Jewish and supported the existance of Israel, he "can not be considered neutral to this subject, of course he is gonna side with Israel."

The debate degraded to the point where there was an argument over whether or not the Arabic or Hebrew name for the Golan Heights should come first in the lead. (see: Talk:Golan_Heights#Arabic_text_before_Hebrew). There was a further issue raised with one of the main contributors to RfC, User:Supreme_Deliciousness, because of several anti-Israeli and pro-syrian viewpoints expressed on his userpage.[23]

In my opinion, as things currently stand, it has become next to impossible to find a fair and equitable balance between editors and sourced information, on both sides of the issue. Debate is always good, as it helps to improve articles by making sure all information is questioned and researched; and everyone is inherently bias to some extent (even if they do not realize it) however strong nationalistic viewpoints expressed by a several editors have unfortunately made it difficult for a consensus to be reached regarding balanced terminology in this and a number of other Arab-Israeli related articles.

Statement by Oren0

I became involved in this dispute when I responded to an AN post asking for a neutral administrator to close an RfC regarding whether the Golan Heights should be referred to as "occupied", "disputed", or something else. This RfC was flooded by new and anonymous editors, many of whom replied very similarly, starting with "reply to RfC" even if they were in a totally different section ([24] [25] [26] [27] [28]). There was very likely some meatpuppetry going on there. I closed this RfC, stating in a nutshell that claims of "occupation" or "dispute" should be mentioned in the context of who is making them (e.g. "Syria considers the land to be illegally occupied by Israel") provided such claims can be reliably sourced, and that Wikipedia shouldn't be in the business of making blanket statements regarding the status of lands where sources and nations may disagree (e.g. "the land is occupied"). I stand by this closure as the only WP:NPOV way to handle the matter, and another uninvolved administrator has indicated that he was going to close the RfC the same way but I had beaten him to it.

User:Supreme Deliciousness subsequently opened a talk page section questioning whether I could be considered uninvolved given that I have userboxes on my user page indicating that I am Jewish and that I support the existence of the state of Israel. I find the assertion that a Jew could not fairly close an RfC to be mildly offensive, though I do welcome the question regarding whether my support for the existence of Israel may taint my judgment. My response to this is that the vast majority of the western world supports the existence of the state of Israel. Especially in the United States, the opinion that Israel as a state has no right to exist is considered very rare. I don't believe that holding such a common opinion should disqualify me from being neutral. To the more general point of my involvement in Middle East-related articles, I have done very little editing in this topic area. Looking at my top 100 articles edited, the only two that show up in this field are Golan Heights, all of which occurred subsequent to the RfC closure, and Gaza War (#60, 8 total edits, most recently in February of this year). My talk contributions are similar.

I completely stand by my own neutrality at the time of this closure and maintain that it was really the only way for that discussion to be closed in accordance with WP:NPOV. I believe that read independently of who wrote it my RfC closure was entirely fair and reasonable. As for the larger issue at hand, this is a content dispute that hasn't risen to the level of needing ArbCom involvement IMO. There has been some edit warring and at least one block (User:Supreme Deliciousness for 3RR on a semi-related article) but nothing that requires ArbCom attention. I have also placed a warning on the talk page pointing users towards WP:ARBPIA and I think that's all that needs to be done here. In short, I see no compelling reason for ArbCom to take this case. Oren0 (talk) 22:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by uninvolved user Jtrainor

I think it would probably be a good idea for Arbcom to jump on this before it turns into the usual shitstorm that all I/P related arguments end up as. Jtrainor (talk) 15:59, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by uninvolved user Sm8900

Hi. I am reading this proceeding with interest. i suggest that all parties try to seek a compromise solution. There is no need for this to degenrate into an edit conflict requiring action by ArbCom. I have been an active member of WP:IPCOLL at various intervals. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 20:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by non-recused Clerks.

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/2/1/4)

Comment I am leaning towards accepting this case, although wondered whether amending the previous West Bank/J&S case would be more helpful to facilitate finding a solution to the naming of the Golan Heights, which is technically not covered by the former case. To clarify, Peter Cohen asked me a couple of days ago for my opinion, and upon looking at the recent RfC was struck by its lack of clarity and structure compared with the soon-to-close Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Placename guidelines. Given there has now been a RfC on the Golan Heights, I suspect this is the port of final call (?) Addendum, depending on other arbs' views on the situation thus far, another outcome might be a motion for one or more neutral admins to chair a new and structured Request for Comment on the disputed naming guidelines on the Golan Heights within a two month time-frame. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:31, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Recuse. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Query. I clicked on two of those discussions mentioned by Peter, and they were concluded prior to (or as a consequence of) the W&S case closing. I think it would be important to understand how many of those discussions mentioned by Peter occurred after the W&S case, and post W&S discussions are the ones we would want to review more closely. A chronological list, or table with start and end of the threads, would be very helpful. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 15:51, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Decline. I dont see community consensus to open a case, nor do I think that there is an obvious need for one. Another RFC would help, provided it is very well prepared with input from both sides. Formal mediation also would help. If there are user conduct problems preventing resolution, they need to be outlined to us. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 08:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Questions. Have the content noticeboards been used to draw some outside input? (Specifically, I am considering the NPOV and ethnic conflicts noticeboards.) If not, I suggest noting the disagreement (with discussion links) at both, asking for outside input and the attention of uninvolved administrators. Are there extensive conduct issues involved? If so, can these be handled on the community level? If so, what method would be best? If not, why not? Are you asking for a requirement that certain naming disputes related to the Israel/Palestine topic area be discussed centrally at the IPCOLL page? Or, are you perhaps suggesting that a centralized request for comments be utilized? If not, what exactly are you requesting? On the matter of topic, are you asking that this one specific dispute be bound by such a requirement or that all naming disputes meeting certain criteria be so bound? If the latter, what benchmarks would you suggest? --Vassyana (talk) 10:38, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also noting that the parties involved in this dispute should be notified of this request. --Vassyana (talk) 10:41, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reject. Try a Centralized Discussion as was done in ARBMAC2, Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Macedonia — Rlevse • Talk • 22:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - agree with Casliber that a good approach would be: "a motion for one or more neutral admins to chair a new and structured Request for Comment on the disputed naming guidelines on the Golan Heights within a two month time-frame". Carcharoth (talk) 23:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

DreamHost

Initiated by SarekOfVulcan (talk) at 03:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

SarekOfVulcan (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
Scjessey (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Judas278 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
194x144x90x118 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Theserialcomma (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by SarekOfVulcan

The article on web hosting company DreamHost (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is hopelessly deadlocked between satisfied customers SarekOfVulcan and Scjessey, and ex-customer Judas278 and non-customer 194x144x90x118. Judas and 194x treat any positive information about the company as advertising or a conflict of interest on Sarek and Scjessey's parts. This has resulted in the article being fully protected for most of the past two months, first by SarekOfVulcan and almost immediately after expiration by PhilKnight, the informal mediator. Suggestions for new edits are met with claims of advertisement. Information such as the names of the founders of the company and that they met in college is challenged as controversial and BLP-violating. Civility has occasionally (or frequently) gone out the window on various people's parts. Reducing the auto-archive period from 90 days to 45 days was decried as abusive and disruptive, even though it reduced the talk page from 285K to 80K. There were allegations that Sarek misused his admin bit by removing a sentence and then fully protecting the article.

It ~~is currently undergoing~~just underwent an AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DreamHost (2nd nomination) that ~~seems quite likely to end~~was closed as keep.

I have not filed an RFC/U, because there isn't just one editor with issues here, and I think it's fairer to subject all involved parties to scrutiny.

Please note 194x's response to my notification: "Beautiful man, you're a goner."--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:00, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Added Theserialcomma as an involved party, since he's a long-term editor, and just made an edit showing the same problems I mentioned above.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 23:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Current dispute

We currently have a slow-motion edit war over a new section of the article. On June 23, Scjessey added Category:File hosting. On June 30, Bjweeks removed it, but readded it after a query from Scjessey and commented "it might be helpful if the article explained or mentioned why it is in the category". I came up with a short section on the "Files Forever" feature, sourcing it to an Official DreamHost Wiki revision created by the company's founder explaining how it worked, and a Spanish-language blog called "Genbeta", which is listed in Google News and has about 60 pages of results in Google when searching for the name, to show that there was apparently more than just English-language interest in the feature. Judas reverted later that day, with the edit summary "If significant, you could find more than One Spanish language source, and self-published unreliable wiki" TheRealFennShysa reverted, asking for better rationales, and Theserialcomma took it back out, commenting "the file hosting section should be removed. it's not encyclopedic" and "removin the whole section. um, the source is a blog."

On the talkpage, he said "as an admin, i'd hope that you would know how wikipedia feels about blogs in situations like this" and "well, if you don't, i'll just tell you. the spanish language blog is not a good source and should be removed". I responded, "Why is it not a good source? How do you know it's not the Spanish equivalent to TechCrunch?" and pointed him to the RSN. He responded, "how about you prove that it *is* reliable? your spanish must not be as good as mine, because i took one look at it and discovered it's an unreliable blog, which is why i removed it. you added it back without knowing anything about the site, or that it even was a blog" and pointed me at the RSN. Scjessey commented, saying he'd like to see better sourcing added, and Theserialcomma posted, apropos of nothing in Scjessey's comment that I could see, "spanish blogs don't become reliable because you don't speak spanish." After some more sourcing discussion, including Theserialcomma's comment of "but don't listen to me; i only speak spanish and actually understand the site. edit war instead", Judas278 inquired, "Projecting forward, will you want to re-publish their entire marketing and PR campaigns here in this article, since you can find a self-published blog or wiki article by a founder, for each campaign? Is this the purpose of wikipedia.?"

Shortly afterward, 194x commented, "I'm gonna go out on a limb but these repeated attempts to include advertising material by Scjessey can in no way be considered good faith edits since he should be fully aware that this sort of conduct is not acceptable." (This, incidentally, is the metaphoric limb Scjessey was responding to in the diff 194x posted below.) This statement was inaccurate, considering that Scjessey had done nothing to the article since his addition of the category a week and a half previously. After Scjessey's comment, Theserialcomma said, "How exactly do you 'metaphorically' snap someone's limb off and smash them over the head with it", misconstruing the comment.

Earlier today, in a discussion about protecting the article while undergoing arbitration (if we get back to net +4), 194x said "Admission of guilt: It's like this the other day Scjessey suggested something and I responded to it with a *Strong oppose and some explanation but that's not really the way one is supposed to respond to such things, one is rather to try and discuss the matters and such but the thing is with this user Scjessey is that he repeatedly suggest adding advertisement material to the article and such and it has been discussed repeatedly before but he just doesn't take a hint so well one just simply loses his patience with him and doesn't assume good faith like one is mandated to do cause good faith seems so far fetched in his case and instead just tries to save some time by voicing his opposition in the clearest way possible. I also want to state that when it comes to this article that a new attitude simply isn't credible either. There you have it I'm guilty." (What I'm getting out of that is a refusal to assume good faith and an unwillingness to move forward. YMMV.)

Since then, Judas took the section back out with "most discussion disagrees with the addition, so removing" and I restored with "Nothing like a consensus to delete at this point. It's not advertising, and it's not controversial." (For those keeping score at home, that's one addition and two restorations by me, one restoration by TheRealFennShysa, two removals by Judas278, and one removal by Theserialcomma.)

ETA: Since Judas hasn't been able to obtain a clear consensus for his version of the article, he says that "Work to consensus seems gone." He also claims that because DreamHost hasn't answered all the questions that have been added to the Wiki page for the service, it's encyclopedic to say that "numerous unanswered questions remain."--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:49, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Responses

Response to arbitrator Risker

Actually, I don't think this is a content dispute, because the disputes have been spread over every part of the article and talk page. It seems clear to me that it's a user conduct issue -- I'm just not sure whose conduct is the problem.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 13:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Response to Judas278

I believe that calling me a liar right in the case illustrates nicely why I consider this a conduct issue, rather than a content dispute.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In this request, you say that you've listened to other editors and modified your behavior. On the talk page, you point to a previous revision calling company sites "advertising" with the comment "told you so". That doesn't sound like learning to me.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:59, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You say in your statement that you began editing when you saw tags being removed. I asked you earlier if you had previously edited as Guantanamo247 (talk · contribs): you never answered. Guantanamo's pattern of username, use of language, and allegations of off-wiki activity by Scjessey look a great deal like yours. Did you edit in 2007 under this username?--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 05:22, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"I thought this was the place for briefly determining a need for a case, not for arguing the case" -- I agree, which is why my first statement was short and as neutral as I could make it, including personal attacks and questions about misusing the bit. However, Vassyana stated they were open to being convinced there was after all a need for Arbitration, so the only way to do that was to expand on my statement.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:10, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Response to 194x144x90x118

Regarding "Let me start by saying that I've acctually only ONCE! edited the article and cosidering that I can not see how I've been responsible for the 'the article being fully protected for most of the past two months'":

I didn't say that
Reviewing your contribution history to the talkpage:
- first edit: reverted by Theserialcomma without comment.
- second edit, essentially the same as the first, plus "BTW if anybody goes ahead and deletes this section of mine again then you'll have a new warrior stepping upto the plate to participate in this little discussion of yours.": reverted by Dayewalker as WP:SOAPBOXing.
- third edit, essentially the same as the first, plus "Feel free to remove this section and my remarks AGAIN which sparked this whole auto archiving discussion in the first place, I'll just put them right back up and then some.": reverted by Dayewalker as WP:SOAPBOXing.
- next edit: included "archiving ... is an attempt to bury the evidence by the same people who have so far put a great deal of energy into making the entire article about Dreamhost seem like one big 'Ahhh all normal'."
- next edit: included "Oh do not attempt to act like you're just being an honest wikipedian out to improve the online encyclopedia.", reverted by Scjessey for soapboxing
- next edit: restored third edit, reverted by me for discussing subject rather than article.
- next edit: restored deleted comments, reverted by Theserialcomma.
- next edit: restored deleted comments, reverted in two chunks by Onorem for discussing subject and me for personal attacks. After a bit more of this, I semi-protected the talk page.
- Later on, right after full protection on the article had expired: "This article is not protected so anyone is free to edit it at his own discretion.... I won't allow this article to be turned into a nice free biased advertisement for dreamhost." Shortly after this comment, PhilKnight re-protected the article.

So yeah, you have been responsible for a lot of the protection here.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 06:00, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Jehochman

I've been watching 194x144x90x118 (talk · contribs) for a while. Something appears to be not right. Their second edit ever is way too knowledgeable (and snarky) for them to be a new user. I suggest checkuser. Jehochman ^Talk 13:24, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the user previously edited as an unregistered account from that IP address, see 194.144.90.118 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Thatcher 13:40, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Did you check for the involvement of other accounts, or is it just the named account and the IP? I am not sure why this editor has been somewhat caustic from the start. 194, can you say whether somebody mistreated you at some point in your history here? Jehochman ^Talk 03:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC) Upon quick review it seems that 194 was on the wrong end of a bad sock puppetry permablock. That would tend to make a user feel grumpy. Jehochman ^Talk 04:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not keen to preempt the Committee, but it might be useful for these matters to be reviewed at WP:COIN or WP:NPOVN. This is the sort of case that those boards routinely process. Jehochman ^Talk 14:27, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note to Sjakkalle

I suggest somebody uninvolved give 194x144x90x118 counseling on how to avoid disruptive editing. Should that fail, they can be blocked by any uninvolved administrator. A case is not needed for such routine actions. Jehochman ^Talk 11:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Judas278

I welcome any productive steps. I am not familiar enough with the options to have an opinion on the best route. I believe significant limitation of Scjessey's participation is appropriate. In summary, SarekOfVulcan's statement, “Simon, please take another look at WP:OWN. You're way too close to this article to look at it objectively” was excellent advice, which unfortunately has not been followed.

I do not treat “any positive information” as advertising or COI. I do object to pro-company editors removing well-sourced negative information while adding positive information without using similar standards, or by claiming “non-controversial” exceptions. I am an ex-customer, not a fan, and I previously observed the development of this article. I began editing the article when I saw the COI, NPOV and SELFPUB tags being removed, without significant changes in the article to justify removal. Example: I suggested a positive addition, covering “ceph”, but did not know of sources for it.

Scjessey is much more than a “satisfied customer.” Without listing details, several different editors have said his editing at DreamHost appears biased by pro-DreamHost COI. Also, he is creator of an off-wiki web site intended to influence or discourage participation, including at Wikipedia, by “outing” personal information and user name(s). This information was provided privately to Philknight and is available privately on request.

Civility: No question Scjessey regularly “welcomed” new editors at DreamHost with prompt, un-discussed edit reverts and accusations of bad faith. The recent Restrictions as a result of his participation in the Obama articles seems to confirm that problems at DreamHost are not an isolated incident. In my opinion, his talk page activity appears largely argumentative and drives away other editors, rather than working to compromise or consensus. I think 194x got off to a “bad” start on this article because s/he stepped into a bad atmosphere, and the Talk page was soon also semi-blocked as a result, forcing him to register. On the whole I think s/he's been a somewhat moderating influence at DreamHost. I try to take SarekOfVulcan 's involvement with good faith, but I will say he does sometimes seem to use Admin power to excess, to force his desired outcome. His apparent attempts at humor sometimes work, but sometimes inflame or derail discussions. Judas278 (talk) 05:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Responses

Response to SarekOfVulcan adding Theserialcomma: A voice of reason, from whom I learned to improve my interpretations of policies and guidelines. Was it simply disagreement over an edit, or a suggestion causing the addition?

Response to Jehochman talk page: Is it necessary to cast aspersions and doubts? I have listened to advice from other impartial editors, and modified my actions because of it.

Additional previous formal dispute resolution step taken: There was also this ANI with no action taken. Judas278 (talk) 01:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Response to initiator/admin SarekOfVulcan

I await direction or questions from Arbitrators or impartial authorities. I thought this was the place for briefly determining a need for a case, not for arguing the case or "Long, rambling additions." Judas278 (talk) 12:55, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Scjessey

Although still somewhat bruised from my previous encounter with ArbCom, I would be delighted to see the committee accept this case. Broadly-speaking, I concur with the statement made by SarekOfVulcan. DreamHost has very few regular editors, which makes it easy for one or two individuals to disrupt the editing environment - the lack of participants also makes it easy for editors to make ownership claims. Of particular concern, however, is the behavior of a disgruntled ex-customer who has essentially destroyed a peaceful and productive editing atmosphere by attacking the subject, and then the editors, of this article.

Attempts to improve the article are constantly obstructed (again, fairly easy to do with so few editors to help establish consensus) and advice gained from informal mediation, requests for comment and third opinions is essentially being ignored. Suggestions for article improvement are quashed with claims of "advertising" or protracted meta discussion.

It is my hope that rather than taking punitive measures, ArbCom will instead focus on offering guidance to all involved parties (both named and otherwise) as to how to resolve conflict and return to productive editing. I also hope that this might lead to a wider discussion of the problems associated with single-purpose accounts, as I have found that these are a frequent source of disruption across much of Wikipedia. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:41, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Update following comments from Arbitrators

I find myself in broad agreement with statements made by arbitrators John Vandenberg and Vassyana. Until John mentioned it, I wasn't even aware of the Content Noticeboard. It seems logical to try to resolve content-related matters there before imposing on ArbCom. Likewise, the matters concerning editor behavior have really evolved from the perception that several parties have some sort of conflict of interest - something which should be resolved at the COI Noticeboard. I'd be more than happy to give those avenues a try, particularly because they would attract the welcome attention of uninvolved administrators. Even if that proves unsuccessful, the least it would do would be to help parties collect their thoughts/evidence, and provide arbitrators with additional material to help with their deliberations. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:43, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 194x144x90x118

Let me start by saying that I've acctually only ONCE! edited the article and cosidering that I can not see how I've been responsible for the "the article being fully protected for most of the past two months" let me continue by stating that I have not treated all positive information about the company as advertisements Line 930 the third edit.

Let me also state that I OBJECT! to the autoarchiving bot being abused The bots page the text that appears on it: "NOTE: Before setting up automatic archiving on an article's talk page, please establish a consensus that archiving is really needed there." . Bottom line, Don't use the bot unless you first establish a consensus. The acts of Sarekofvulcan and Scjessey were nothing less than gross abuse of the bot repeatedly changing its settings without first respecting the requirement that a consensus needed to be obtained. Something which can be compared to impaling someone with a white flag.

Now lets address the players involved

Theserialcomma

I fail to see how this user has possibly done anything wrong.

Judas

Scjesseys and Sareks complaint in the past regarding this user is that he is an SPA but only being an SPA isn't an offense according to wikipedias rules.

Scjessey

Lets begin with viewing other peoples complaints regarding this user from his very own talkpage:

1!!! Complaint and "I will NEVER make any more donations like I have in the past." by User:Carterwj.

2!!! Complaint regarding personal attacks made by Scjessey, by User:Caspian blue.

3!!! Complaint regarding civility made by User:Bigtimepeace

4!!! Complaint from me regarding repeated personal attacks on the dreamhost talkpage.

5!!! Scjessey calling someone a "worthless coward".

Now lets take a look at the Dreamhost talkpage shall we?

1!!! Scjessey threatening violence or making an inappropriate joke "I swear I'm going to metaphorically snap that limb off and bash somebody over the head with it"

11:06, 11 March 2009 Innapropriate sock claims "I believe the disgruntled drive-by tagger is probably a sock, since the account has a single purpose with a limited history, yet seems able to wikilawyer adeptly."

00:27, 3 April Personal attack by Scjessey "Have you no interested in edititing anything else on Wikipeda, other than this crusade of hate?"

16:31, 4 April 2009 Personal attack by Scjessey "Why don't you go and learn the rules and then come back and try to be a productive Wikipedian, rather than a disruptive SPA?"

20:31, 5 April 2009 "You are being deliberately obtuse and tendentious because you have a grudge against the company. It is a complete waste of time trying to discuss this with you, because you have the red mist of DreamHost rage in your eyes" Personal attack by Scjessey.

01:02, 7 April 2009 Scjessey personal attack "You don't make good faith edits. All your edits are in bad faith, because your sole reason for editing here is to discredit DreamHost"

01:58, 7 April 2009 "Wikipedia is not your personal playground of hate."

02:29, 9 April 2009 "Also, since you are just a DreamHost-hating SPA, your "challenge" is essentially meaningless."

02:04, 4 May 2009 Personal attack by Scjessey "Sometimes the senseless outnumber the sensible - that's probably how Bush managed to twice get elected."

02:30, 4 May 2009 "I regard you very much as part of a coalition of the foolish,"

03:59, 20 April 2009 Personal attacks "You are way off base here. Your edits have the sole effect of attacking the company, whereas my edits are for the benefit of the Wikipedia project. It doesn't take a genius to figure out who has the conflict of interest."

04:14, 20 April 2009 Threats and personal attacks "If this were any other article I edit on, you would have been blocked long ago for being a disruptive SPA. You have escaped this long only because this is a low-trafficked, low-importance article. Now please stop your misrepresentations."

21:01, 27 May 2009 Personal attacks "If the banhammer doesn't fall upon you, I will simply be ignoring you from now on."

I'd dig up the diffs and show them to you guys but I just don't have more time today and besides all of this can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:DreamHost&oldid=299280215

Statement by Sjakkalle

Although my (brief) experience with 194x144x90x118 was not related to the DreamHost dispute, I think consideration of 194x144x90x118's conduct in general is in order. A couple of weeks ago he launched a series of personal attacks (e.g. [29])) and intimidation (e.g. [30]) against editors at the chess WikiProject during a content dispute, and the presence of this arbcom request also involving possible disruptive editing from 194x144x90x118 is an indication that this editor's behavior in general may require further scrutiny, possibly sanctions. I don't know about the other editors listed in the request, so I shall not comment on them. Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:31, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by non-recused Clerks.

I'm waiting on direction from the arbitrators about opening this, as we're still missing some statements and three arbitrators still appear to be on the fence for this issue. Hersfold non-admin^(t/a/c) 21:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please hold on for now. I think a couple of us are waiting to see what might happen over the next couple of days. At the moment the case has fallen below "net 4" anyway, but that might change again. Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:02, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All users posting here should be aware that personal attacks will not be tolerated here and will be summarily removed by clerks or arbitrators on sight. RFAR has enough drama associated with it already without people insulting one another. Please maintain a basic level of civility and decorum, as you would anywhere else on Wikipedia. Thank you. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 17:02, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (7/5/0/1)

Accept to consider the conduct of everyone involved in this matter. Kirill ^[talk] [pf] 03:55, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline There is an AFD outstanding, and an informal mediation that is said to be ongoing. Wait for the AFD to close, and then attempt to use formal mediation. You may also want to try the new Wikipedia:Content noticeboard out. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 04:26, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Awaiting further submissions. I would like to see the AfD to close as well before determining next steps. John Vandenberg's suggestions for alternatives are good. I'm of the impression, however, that this is a content dispute that still has some opportunity for resolution. Risker (talk) 13:12, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Decline at this time, in agreement with Vassyana. I recommend that the editors involved make use of the Content noticeboard and take other steps. Consider requests for comment and posting at business-related wikiproject talk pages seeking other opinions. This does not appear to be ripe for arbitration yet, and I would like to see more community involvement tried first. I do urge all involved editors to remain open-minded in reviewing other options here; whether or not one is a "satisfied customer" should be irrelevant to one's edits. Risker (talk) 15:16, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Accept to look at the user conduct issues. The Afd's closed one way or the other is not going to fix the problems that I see looking through editing history of some of the involved parties. FloNight ♥♥♥ 13:46, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Awaiting further statements, including the other named parties' views on whether they see a path to resolving their dispute here short of arbitration. Newyorkbrad (talk) 13:52, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Waiting for other statements. If other parties are willing to seek dispute resolution then it could be declined. if not it should be accepted. We'll see. Wizardman 23:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Change to accept. Wizardman 20:19, 4 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Accept; regardless of the AfD results, some poor behavior has occurred around this topic that bear looking into. — Coren ^(talk) 04:29, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Accept - AfD now closed as 'keep', conduct needs review. Casliber (talk · contribs) 14:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Accept: Roger Davies ^talk 03:28, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Decline. There are other avenues of dispute resolution left available. As an example noted by Jehochman, there are noticeboards suitable for handling and clarifying aspects of this situation. I'm also inclined to believe that an uninvolved administrator or two can be found to address any remaining concerns. I am open to being convinced that arbitration is necessary here, but I am skeptical to the notion that this dispute cannot be resolved at the community level. ArbCom should not preempt or supplant the community. On a broader note, the community should take note of this dispute. It is repeated throughout a significant portion of our company articles. Noticeboards discussions and other outside input from the community constitute a necessary step in clarifying policy in relation to those areas and (thus) better addressing these disputes. It is infinitely better for the community to establish this context and application. --Vassyana (talk) 10:27, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Reject at this time. Behavioural issues seem low-level and not beyond ordinary administrator intervention, if any is warranted. The content dispute is the core of this, and there are further dispute resolution options to pursue in relation to that, particularly ones that involve seeking outside opinion (this is especially true if party-internal methods such as mediation are not being productive). The request for comment linked to above seemed to attract only two uninvolved users; consider contacting a relevant WikiProject or advertising a request at a relevant noticeboard (though keeping relevant guidelines in mind). --bainer (talk) 05:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Accept to look at behavior of parties, not content of article. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Decline - this is borderline, but the conduct and content issues can be handled by the community, with a bit more work. If that fails, please return here for arbitration, but all parties should be aware that poor conduct on both sides will likely be sanctioned, so it would be best for all concerned if they worked together to resolve this. Carcharoth (talk) 23:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leonese Language - numbers of speakers

Initiated by Eldrewitsch (talk) at 18:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Involved parties

Eldrewitsch, filing party
Rastrojo
FCPB

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

Diff. 1
Diff. 2

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Link 1
Link 2

Statement by {Party 1}

Users FCPB and Rastrojo keep on undoing the section of the entry Leonese Language which refers to the number of speakers of that language. I tried to talk with both on the discussion site [[31]], but they didn't react. I think before I report it as vandalism maybe it will be worthy trying to solve the problem by arbitration.

The figure of 50.000 speakers of Leonese was drawn from two academic publications:

García Arias, J.L./ González Riaño, J.A. (2008): II Estudiu sociollingüísticu de Lleón. Identidá, conciencia d'usu y actitúes llingüístiques de la población lleonesa. Oviedo : ALLA
Sánchez Prieto, R. (2008): "La elaboración y aceptación de una norma lingüística en comunidades dialectalmente divididas: el caso del leonés y del frisio del norte". In: Sánchez Prieto, R./ Veith, D./ Martínez Areta, M. (ed.): Mikroglottika Yearbook 2008. Frankfurt: Peter Lang.

FCPB insist on saying García Arias/Riaño say nothing about the total amount of speakers, but they do. Moreover, the figure has even made it to the press [32]. I think if both of them cannot present studies published by academicians in national or international publications, I suggest that we all accept the figure of 50.000 speakers.

I should say that Rastrojo, active as a sysop at the Spanish wikipedia, was able to expell me from the Spanish version. I do not want confrontation, but I don't like the way Rastrojo and FCPB are handling the issue and I would like some sysop to speak to both of them. I feel mobbed, although I provide academic quotations and am not even Spaniard and therefore not at all interested in Spanish (language) politics. Thank you. --Eldrewitsch (talk) 18:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 2: / Line 2: @@
-== <Leonese Language> - numbers of speakers ==
-'''Initiated by ''' [[User:Eldrewitsch|Eldrewitsch]] ([[User talk:Eldrewitsch|talk]]) '''at''' 18:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
-=== Involved parties ===
-<!-- use {{admin|username}} if the party is an administrator -->
-*[[User:Eldrewitsch|Eldrewitsch]], ''filing party''
-*[[User:Rastrojo|Rastrojo]]
-*[[User:FCPB|FCPB]]
-<!-- The editor filing the case should be included as a party for purposes of notifications. -->
-;Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
-<!-- All parties must be notified that the request has been filed, immediately after it is posted, and confirmation posted here. -->
-*Diff. 1
-*Diff. 2
-;Confirmation that other steps in [[Wikipedia:dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] have been tried
-<!-- Identify prior attempts at dispute resolution here, with links/diffs to the page where the resolution took place. If prior dispute resolution has not been attempted, the reasons for this should be explained in the request for arbitration -->
-*Link 1
-*Link 2
-=== Statement by {Party 1} ===
-Users FCPB and Rastrojo keep on undoing the section of the entry [[Leonese Language]] which refers to the number of speakers of that language. I tried to talk with both on the discussion site [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Leonese_language#Let.27s_discuss_the_total_amount_of_speakers_without_politics]], but they didn't react. I think before I report it as vandalism maybe it will be worthy trying to solve the problem by arbitration.
-The figure of 50.000 speakers of Leonese was drawn from two academic publications:
-*García Arias, J.L./ González Riaño, J.A. (2008): II Estudiu sociollingüísticu de Lleón. Identidá, conciencia d'usu y actitúes llingüístiques de la población lleonesa. Oviedo : ALLA
-*Sánchez Prieto, R. (2008): "La elaboración y aceptación de una norma lingüística en comunidades dialectalmente divididas: el caso del leonés y del frisio del norte". In: Sánchez Prieto, R./ Veith, D./ Martínez Areta, M. (ed.): Mikroglottika Yearbook 2008. Frankfurt: Peter Lang.
-FCPB insist on saying García Arias/Riaño say nothing about the total amount of speakers, but they do. Moreover, the figure has even made it to the press [http://www.lne.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=1915_46_608225__Sociedad-y-Cultura-leoneses-declara-favor-colaborar-Asturias-politica-lingistica]. I think if both of them cannot present studies published by academicians in national or international publications, I suggest that we all accept the figure of 50.000 speakers.
-I should say that Rastrojo, active as a sysop at the Spanish wikipedia, was able to expell me from the Spanish version. I do not want confrontation, but I don't like the way Rastrojo and FCPB are handling the issue and I would like some sysop to speak to both of them. I feel mobbed, although I provide academic quotations and am not even Spaniard and therefore not at all interested in Spanish (language) politics. Thank you. --[[User:Eldrewitsch|Eldrewitsch]] ([[User talk:Eldrewitsch|talk]]) 18:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
-=== Statement by {Party 2} ===
-=== Statement by {Party 3} ===
-=== Clerk notes ===
-:''This area is used for notes by non-recused Clerks.''
-=== Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0) ===
-*
-= <includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case|</includeonly>Requests for arbitration<includeonly>]]</includeonly> =
-{{Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Header}}
 == ADHD edits ==
@@ Line 518: / Line 474: @@
 *'''Decline''' - this is borderline, but the conduct and content issues can be handled by the community, with a bit more work. If that fails, please return here for arbitration, but all parties should be aware that poor conduct on both sides will likely be sanctioned, so it would be best for all concerned if they worked together to resolve this. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] ([[User talk:Carcharoth|talk]]) 23:21, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
+== [[Leonese Language]] - numbers of speakers ==
+'''Initiated by ''' [[User:Eldrewitsch|Eldrewitsch]] ([[User talk:Eldrewitsch|talk]]) '''at''' 18:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
+=== Involved parties ===
+<!-- use {{admin|username}} if the party is an administrator -->
+*[[User:Eldrewitsch|Eldrewitsch]], ''filing party''
+*[[User:Rastrojo|Rastrojo]]
+*[[User:FCPB|FCPB]]
+<!-- The editor filing the case should be included as a party for purposes of notifications. -->
+;Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
+<!-- All parties must be notified that the request has been filed, immediately after it is posted, and confirmation posted here. -->
+*Diff. 1
+*Diff. 2
+;Confirmation that other steps in [[Wikipedia:dispute resolution|dispute resolution]] have been tried
+<!-- Identify prior attempts at dispute resolution here, with links/diffs to the page where the resolution took place. If prior dispute resolution has not been attempted, the reasons for this should be explained in the request for arbitration -->
+*Link 1
+*Link 2
+=== Statement by {Party 1} ===
+Users FCPB and Rastrojo keep on undoing the section of the entry [[Leonese Language]] which refers to the number of speakers of that language. I tried to talk with both on the discussion site [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Leonese_language#Let.27s_discuss_the_total_amount_of_speakers_without_politics]], but they didn't react. I think before I report it as vandalism maybe it will be worthy trying to solve the problem by arbitration.
+The figure of 50.000 speakers of Leonese was drawn from two academic publications:
+*García Arias, J.L./ González Riaño, J.A. (2008): II Estudiu sociollingüísticu de Lleón. Identidá, conciencia d'usu y actitúes llingüístiques de la población lleonesa. Oviedo : ALLA
+*Sánchez Prieto, R. (2008): "La elaboración y aceptación de una norma lingüística en comunidades dialectalmente divididas: el caso del leonés y del frisio del norte". In: Sánchez Prieto, R./ Veith, D./ Martínez Areta, M. (ed.): Mikroglottika Yearbook 2008. Frankfurt: Peter Lang.
+FCPB insist on saying García Arias/Riaño say nothing about the total amount of speakers, but they do. Moreover, the figure has even made it to the press [http://www.lne.es/secciones/noticia.jsp?pRef=1915_46_608225__Sociedad-y-Cultura-leoneses-declara-favor-colaborar-Asturias-politica-lingistica]. I think if both of them cannot present studies published by academicians in national or international publications, I suggest that we all accept the figure of 50.000 speakers.
+I should say that Rastrojo, active as a sysop at the Spanish wikipedia, was able to expell me from the Spanish version. I do not want confrontation, but I don't like the way Rastrojo and FCPB are handling the issue and I would like some sysop to speak to both of them. I feel mobbed, although I provide academic quotations and am not even Spaniard and therefore not at all interested in Spanish (language) politics. Thank you. --[[User:Eldrewitsch|Eldrewitsch]] ([[User talk:Eldrewitsch|talk]]) 18:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
+=== Statement by {Party 2} ===
+=== Statement by {Party 3} ===
+=== Clerk notes ===
+:''This area is used for notes by non-recused Clerks.''
+=== Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/0/0) ===
+*
+= <includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case|</includeonly>Requests for arbitration<includeonly>]]</includeonly> =
+{{Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Header}}