Talk:Zoë Quinn

Contested deletion

This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because Quinn was the center of a large media controversy within the video game industry, focused on misogyny within the industry, due to the harassment she faced. As part of a larger discussion about misogyny within the video game industry, Quinn is one of the defining resistant female figures.

How could the page be edited in order to convey this importance?

Generally people who are only involved in single events do not meet the criteria for biographies of living people. You are welcome to read over them. Zeus ^{t | u | c} 19:51, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because:

I've added additional details to show her importance. Besides her role in Depression Quest and the subsequent harassment, she:

1) produced the first Twine game released on Steam

2) took part in the failed YouTube indie game developer game_jam reality tv show

3) created the Game Developer Help List to bring together veteran and novice game developers

Hopefully this provides sufficient evidence of her importance, particularly to the indie video game community!

Thank you,

--ShaunEdmonds (talk) 22:56, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Unprofessional Conduct

I would go as far as to say, if we can talk about it on Bill Clinton's page, we can post it here? It's relevant controversy, and goes further than defamation.

Zoe Quinn's Lewinsky Scandal [1]

24.170.47.108 (talk) 07:14, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Completely agree. If people think this page is such of valid importance, her notorious cheating scandal should at least be mentioned. It was all over reddit when it happened. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.206.96.149 (talk) 12:26, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Second. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.140.67.218 (talk) 12:41, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Third. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.250.186.150 (talk) 02:16, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Fourth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.53.160.76 (talk) 10:52, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Fifth. I logged in to do it myself, to override the lock, but I would rather that the very public information be handled in a way that reflects more consensis. Artoftransformation (talk) 05:11, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

"The Link." http://thezoepost.wordpress.com/ The Zone Post.

Disagree. To publish information on Wikipedia, that info can't merely be high-profile in an online self-publishing community. It must also be covered by a reliable secondary source. Wikipedia policy states: "Base articles on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." For non-scholarly examples of these sources, it lists: "university-level textbooks, books published by respected publishing houses, magazines, journals, mainstream newspapers, [and] electronic media, subject to the same criteria." In other words, even if the whole planet is buzzing excitedly about something that allegedly or actually happened, that info can't go on Wikipedia until a reputable outlet reports on it. That may seem like an unfair or limiting restriction, especially if you perceive an event or rumor as very notable, but it keeps the quality of accuracy of Wikipedia much higher. The website "thezoepost" is not a secondary source, it's primary, it's not from a reliable outlet, and it's self-published. So even if the content is very interesting or widely disseminated, it's not usable. A bigger outlet has to cover it. 75.119.242.175 (talk) 03:05, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 August 2014

Here is a reference link for the Controversy subsection:

Wirtanen, Josh (17 August 2014). "Phil Fish Goes on Epic Twitter Crusade to Defend Zoe Quinn". Retrieved 17 August 2014.

I think the Controversy subsection should be rewritten to be more neutral, i.e.:

In August 2014, an ex-boyfriend alleged that Zoe Quinn had had affairs with various video game journalists, developers, and content creators. His blog post led to an online controversyWirtanen, Josh (17 August 2014). "Phil Fish Goes on Epic Twitter Crusade to Defend Zoe Quinn". Retrieved 17 August 2014. and suspicion that impropriety was involved in Depression Quest's presence in gaming publications. One alleged sexual partner writes articles for Kotaku, a site which devoted significant attention to Depression Quest. Another of her sexual partners was alleged to be her married employer, who had also achieved some success within the gaming community. There was speculation about Zoe's methods for promoting herself, her games, and her career: online communities began to accuse her of manipulating the media by falsely representing herself as a victim of online harassment, presumably to draw attention to, and support for, her work.

Willhesucceed (talk) 12:13, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Not done: We're not here to repeat gossip - see WP:BLPGOSSIP. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 12:25, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

"In attempting to publish the game through Steam's Greenlight service, Quinn was the target of harassment both online and through sexually explicit phone calls." By your same logic, this too is gossip and should be removed. Articles that cite twitter as references, and a complete lack of evidence make this statement gossip. Don't try and fool anyone, you simply are burying anything that can be construed as negative by abusing rules, and ignoring cases that make the subject look positive. Your obvious conflict of interests makes you an editor who abuses his position to censor information he finds unappealing.73.32.61.213 (talk) 20:59, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Let's say for a minute that 100% that you were right, it was faked entirely and it was an all an elaborative marketing ploy...Wikipedia doesn't publish original thought, and we stick to what the sources say. The reason on why it would be in the article is that there are reliable sources documenting it. I invite you to find some reliable sources for the counter view point, if there are any, for any possibility of adding/omitting anything from the article. Tutelary (talk) 00:01, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

No, the harassment was documented in reputable, edited sources. The infidelity claims weren't. That's really all that there is to it. Euchrid (talk) 23:39, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Your "reputable edited sources" are exclusively links to Zoe Quinn's twitter account. Seriously, click the [2] and [3] button on the bottom of the main article, and find one hyperlink that IS NOT Zoe Quinn's official twitter page. What you are saying is Zoe Quinn's official twitter page is a reputable source for what goes on Zoe Quinn's wikipedia page. What a joke. http://kc-vidya-rants.tumblr.com/post/95004433478/zoe-quinns-kotaku-staff-cheating-scandal-and-how-she http://imgur.com/a/4VOcx Not considered reliable under wikipedia standards, but they sure as hell aren't just twitter screencaps. 73.32.61.213 (talk) 01:30, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

We allow journalists who publish in reliable sources to make the judgement of whether a subject's Twitter account is a reasonable and trustworthy source for their stories. We don't allow Wikipedia editors to do the same thing. Why the difference? Because the reliable sources have a reputation for fact-checking and editorial oversight, but there is no such system in place for Wikipedia editors. And if the reliable sources don't have such good reputations for fact-checking? They aren't so reliable, and maybe we shouldn't be using them. See Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources - particularly the section on news organisations - to see the criteria we normally apply to sources. We can always review the use of specific sources here or at WP:RS/N. If there is a source you think is dubious, please list the source here, along with the statement you don't think it is reliable for, and we can take a look. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 01:55, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

The article doesn't cite Twitter directly, it cites The Mary Sue and The Escapist, both of which easily pass the criteria for reputable sources. THEY draw from Twitter, it's true, but as they've made the judgement that the information is significant, we should include it. WP doesn't determine what information is significant, or which information is 'true' - we reflect what appears in reputable sources. Euchrid (talk) 02:50, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

"Alleged"

I don't want this to become an edit war, but the word 'alleged' is inappropriate when describing Quinn's harassment. At WP we follow the sources, we don't provide our own editorials or commentary. Both reputable sources - The Mary Sue and The Escapist - indicate that what happened was harassment, and our article needs to reflect that. It's not up to editors to determine what really happened. If there are any reliable sources that suggest that it didn't, or that reports were overinflated, then that information can be added as well. Until then, the word 'alleged' has no place. Euchrid (talk) 06:07, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

I couldn't have put it better myself. If anyone wants to read the Wikipedia policy behind this - and it will make things a lot easier for all the new users here if you do - you can find it at Wikipedia:No original research. — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 06:17, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

For anyone who IS interested in reading up on policy, in addition to the Original Research article, it's worth bearing in mind that it needs to be interpreted particularly strictly when, as in this case, the article is a biography of a living person. Anything which could possibly be seen as being insulting or defamatory needs to be very well sourced, and to not say or imply anything that does not appear in the source article. Euchrid (talk) 06:23, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

News about how did Zoe Quinn got there:

Is this true? I need clarification.