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The use of "Independent Liberal/Labor" is a term that is not permitted in elections for parties/candidates or for electoral material, so to use them in lists like these is completely erroneous. Under sections 64 and 180 of the Electoral Act 2017, this is not permitted. You may include a reference to individual party membership in the notes section, but they do not sit under this label, they were not elected as such, they are not permitted to use such labels under NSW law, and it is misleading to describe them so.Siegfried Nugent (talk) 08:52, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
First off, no disputing from me that officially these terms cannot be used on a ballot in NSW and they are illegal - thankfully, Wikipedia infoboxes are not bound by NSW Electoral Act.
As referenced on the page, these respective councillors have self-declared their party memberships, so them being party members is also something that cannot be disputed.
But these infoboxes are also meant to be informative, and describing them as an "independent" ignores that they are - an unendorsed party member, which is exactly where Independent Liberal/Labor labels fit in (as the respective pages for those affilaitions state).
I would support a reference to informal party affiliation as that is indeed informative and useful, but not including the terms in the official list of parties/affiliations as that is not how they are elected (and they literally cannot be elected as such). Self-published sources like the tally room are not reliable sources, and nowhere in the Willoughby Living article does it use the term "independent liberal" or "independent labor". I can't find any reliable references that this term has been used officially or unofficially to describe these councillors, so it is inaccurate in any case.Siegfried Nugent (talk) 09:12, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No you haven't, both links you used don't back up your argument. The Tally Room is a self-published source. Willoughby Living doesn't even use the terms. You must CITE your sources. I can't find any independent reliable references that back up your use of the term for any Willoughby Councillor, or any other NSW councillor for that matter.Siegfried Nugent (talk) 09:22, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"I can't find any independent reliable references that back up your use of the term for any Willoughby Councillor, or any other NSW councillor for that matter" because the term is all over the place - "unendorsed Liberal" "Liberal but not endorsed" etc - all of these count as an INDLIB
Exactly. So you can't claim to use the terms as the only undisputed term. As I said, they should not be used as official descriptors in party lists, but a reference to party membership is useful and I would support that. But "Independent Liberal/Labor" are disputed terms that have very limited use. The Tally room is a useful source, but at the moment it is your only source, and as a self-published source that's not good if we're looking to provide properly referenced articles that accurately present information and don't use terms that aren't used in real life to describe particular people. The Willoughby Living article doesnt even use those terms, with one of the councillors saying: "I am a member of the Liberal Party, but not endorsed, so I am free to act as I see fit." and "I have liberal party membership but sit on council as a full independent."Siegfried Nugent (talk) 09:31, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree - We would never classify federal or state members as fully independent if they were indeed members of a party, why should we classify local councillors any differently? AmNowEurovision (talk) 09:36, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I note also that The Tally Room didn't even look at the Willoughby Council election for the 2021 local government elections, so I fail to see how that can be used as a source to describe the afiliations or parties of Willoughby City Councillor, so there are no references provided for the use of the terms "Independent Liberal/Labor" to refer to Willoughby City Councillors.Siegfried Nugent (talk) 09:37, 29 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
