- Corey Delaney (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)
There has been a fair bit of discussion related to this topic in the past, so please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Corey Delaney discussion before commeting here. The 4 February DRV, especially, contains a fair few sources or claims to notability, to which this DRV will add.
Since our February discussions, Delaney has continued as a well known figure in Australia. He is set to release a single, "Fight for Your Right (to Party)" (a Beastie Boys cover), and when news.com.au reported this, they also noted that "Since January, when he became either the most loved or hated party boy, Worthington hasn't stopped fielding offers for work". source Delaney also recently entered the Big Brother house in Australia, and has received significant coverage on Google News for this; see the numerous articles listed here. As well as reports on him being in the house, there have also been responses to his entry, and criticism of what this means, see for instance this AdelaideNow article.
While Delaney's notability does still stem from that party he held, I believe it has now expanded beyond WP:BLP1E, and that he is thus notable for an article here. I am happy to work on a draft article with others (I haven't had the time to do one now...) if nobody has one lying around for now.
- Note: I have used the name Delaney, but there is some debate as to if he should be called Worthington...Delaney is the name I'm used to, and there should be no percieved bias (on my part) in which title is to be chosen ultimately.
dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 01:04, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently in long anticipation of this moment, JRG has maintained a draft at User:JRG/Corey Worthington. It is a bit out of date; for example it contains very little on his involvement in Big Brother, and nothing on his musical career. But it may serve to bring newcomers to this discussion up to speed on the topic, and is probably a good place to start if there is consensus to allow an article. Hesperian 01:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Some of the assertions in that article are blatantly false, although did appear as speculation in the media (mostly News Ltd publications) at the time. Someone contacted Southern Star-Endemol and confirmed point blank that he would not be involved in hosting Big Brother, although it appears they've brought him on the show in a different capacity. Orderinchaos 08:34, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Hesperian, I don't want to criticise, but please get your facts right before making assertions about my userfying. I wasn't waiting for the article to be re-written, I was actually going to (in good faith) put some facts on some other pages such as the Narre Warren page for the party incident (as opposed to wanting his own page). I actually thought at the time he wasn't notable for his own article, but the out-of-control party, which got unprecedented media coverage, was. JRG (talk) 10:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I do most humbly apologise, JRG. I should not have assumed; or rather, I should have checked with you or kept my assumptions to myself. Hesperian 11:57, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I just want to point out that I have also been involved in editing this draft article, and I have added quite a lot of current info to it. To be honest I can't stand this guy, but that is why I have been working on the article, so there is a factual representation of his actions without all the cruff that the media places on it. I can only do so much though, it needs other editors to work on it.Fosnez (talk) 08:09, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- No problem - you are forgiven. JRG (talk) 13:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- allow recreation I was actually going to wait a few more days before I filed this DRV myself but H20 makes essentially the case I was going to. JoshuaZ (talk) 01:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep deleted. If he releases a single, and it charts, then he'll pass WP:MUSIC and be worthy of an article anyway. Until then, still looks all a bit BLP1E to me. Black Kite 06:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep deleted. He is of marginal notability and there's been some serious questions as to whether he is a minor being exploited in this situation. Per "do no harm" and also WP:BLP1E, it's doubtful. Incidentally, it's been confirmed since the original coverage that his name is Worthington and always has been, but his mother's name is Delaney and that's what caused the confusion. Essentially a case of very poor fact-checking by media agencies. Orderinchaos 08:32, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Considering the continued/continuing news coverage he's getting, I would say these serious concerns about exploiting a minor have probably been diminished...at this stage, it seems fairly certain he wants/is asking for the publicity (IMO). dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 10:27, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Very reluctant restore I don't want this guy to have an article, but I think that he's now notable for more than one thing (just). The article should be carefully written though. Nick Dowling (talk) 10:23, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Wait - let's see how he goes in Big Brother— he may gain the notoriety that some of the past contestants have and would become notable enough for an article. If not, then the current paragraph on him in the Big Brother 2008 paragraph, with the facts of the Narre Warren incident, should be fine. It's way too early in the show for us to make any judgements on this. By the way, OIC, the "serious questions" are as yet by a single person so I wouldn't make too much of it. He's on Big Brother, whether we like it or not, so he's going to get his paragraph there, own article or not. JRG (talk) 10:25, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Wait. Sceptre (talk) 10:39, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Wait and see that notability is established beyond WP:BLP1E before a standalone article, obvious some detail should now be in the appropriate BB articles. When that gets to the point where a daughter article is necessary then create. Gnangarra 10:47, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Deleted, being a contestant on what is essentially a game show is no more an indication of notability for Delaney than it is for anybody else. Nothing has changed in my view since the last time this was deleted. Lankiveil (speak to me) 12:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC).[reply]
- Keep Deleted per Orderinchaos above. Eusebeus (talk) 12:53, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Reluctant Restore on the same grounds as Nick Dowling. The oneevent restriction is to prevent overemphasis on minor events in someone's life, irrelevant to any real notability, such as being caught up in a disaster or a bystander to a crime. By extension it can be used for a moderately significant event in the life of a minor, to protect him. He does not want protection--that much is obvious. So we include it. DGG (talk) 13:30, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore. While pretty much everything he is notable for stems from a single event, the same could be said of many politicians who are notable for things they have done that have resulted from them being elected as politicians. I don't think this is a case of BLP1E, as the event itself is not the only thing that he is notable before. Celarnor Talk to me 17:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore, as the continued media coverage means his notability has gone beyond any rational interpretation of WP:ONEEVENT. The Big Brother situation/role, in particular, seems unprecedented (correct me if I'm wrong). Certainly he was not selected through any normal contestant process and is not subject to our "only winning contestants" rule-of-thumb, he was brought in as a spoiler precisely because of his national celebrity. Voluntary participation at this level makes him, even if a minor, no different than other pop stars e.g. Jamie Lynn Spears. I have no objections to continued vigilance for BLP issues. --Dhartung | Talk 19:11, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- comment Ongoing coverage from just the last few hours: [1] [2] [3] [http://top40-charts.com/news/Pop-Rock/Infamous-Party-Boy-Corey-Worthington-Releases-Debut-Single-Fight-For-Your-Right-(To-Party)/40029.html\. (Thankfully no one has yet decided to cover this discussion like they did our previous AfD and DRV). JoshuaZ (talk) 21:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep deleted. Vapid waster. Guy (Help!) 22:59, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Hope the Australian project keeps this and the previous debate well linked and not lost into the ether - it is a good example of how we as a project come to terms with notoriety within our little corner of the planet - it compares interestingly with some other Afd's and keeps over time - I agree with Dhartungs comments - and others that we should keep vigilance with WP:BLP1E both for keeping or deleting - so in the end I am a wait voter SatuSuro 04:09, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep deleted per Orderinchaos's reasoning. Sarah 07:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore Initially Corey was famous for one thing which in itself wasn't considered noteworthy. Whilst others notable for one sport, or one pice of music or one other thing happening have had wikipedia articles created. Corey is now a famous Australian Personality certainly there are far less well known personalities who have wiki entries and far less notable personalities. If it was just over one party we wouldn't be having this conversation now would we! Orderinchaos argument seems to contradict itself the point is HE IS A BB HOUSEMATE, HE IS FAMOUS - WE CANT ACCUSE THE MEDIA OF BEING BIASED SIMPLY BECAUSE WE DONT WANT THE GUY TO HAVE A WIKI - people use media references in wikis all the time to support their facts so Orderinchaos more or less fall flat on their face 124.171.16.116 (talk) 13:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore - The media coverage of this person is way beyond the scope of "ONEEVENT" and there's an incorrect argument that just because this person is a musician, they must have a hit record to pass the main criteria of WP:MUSIC. People can be notable for reasons outside the "specially notability" guidelines like WP:MUSIC, WP:PROF, etc.. --Oakshade (talk) 20:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- On what basis are you arguing to restore this article? This is not a policy forum. Orderinchaos 02:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't think his comment is that complicated. The point can be interpreted two ways: first, that Worthington meets WP:BIO rather than a more specific guideline and second that even if someone doesn't meet a specific guideline we can use common sense to decide notability based on a collection of small events all of which provide reliable sources (which is essentially saying he meets WP:N). Moreover, WP:NOTBUREAUCRACY is relevant. Even if we didn't have a particular guideline to cover something it doesn't mean we have to establish a new guideline to include an article. JoshuaZ (talk) 13:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment How is this article harmful? Below is the "inclusion test" from the policy you linked:
- Is the information already widely known: Yes, it is already well known, check the sources on thee article.
- Is the information definitive and factual: Yes, all claims have been backed up with sources
- Is the information given due weight in relation to the subject's notability?: Yes, other information about him has been entered into the aricle, such has the confusion over his name etc. But it needs improvement.
Fosnez (talk) 08:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Recreate - notable because of all the media coverage on him, no so much because of the oneevent! Notability is easily proved by multiple significant sources. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 03:52, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore. Subject no longer meets BLP1E; continued coverage is extensive and comes from credible sources. Since article was deleted solely because of BLP1E and notability based on events rather than the one party incident is verified, there's no reason not to restore the article.--PeaceNT (talk) 14:39, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment The main reason not to have an article would be because we don't want to be a tabloid encyclopedia. Sometimes things would be easier if wikipedia were paper - "Sorry, we only have room for 60 000 articles, and Corey was #60 001". Andjam (talk) 15:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse deletion. I think the main claim to "Subject no longer meets BLP1E" stands from him being in the Big Brother House—any mention of him can begin there, in the Big Brother season X article, and then when it gets beyond stub size, brought back here. But it still seems like BLP1.5E to me right now, hence, I endorse the initial decision(s). MrPrada (talk) 04:18, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Recreate Someone deleted my reason for this nomination. Oh well. Anyway his notability is easily established by his Big Brother appearance and CD release. Even if nothing else, his name should redirect to the Big Brother 2008 article. JayKeaton (talk) 08:08, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Strongly endorse deletion/keep deleted and wait per Orderinchaos and MrPrada. The Big Brother appearance does not make Worthington any more notable than he was, as consensus is Big Brother housemates are not notable enough for an article. Even if you could piece together the notability from the party, his "music" "career" and then the Big Brother appearance, he still does not meet the encyclopedic threshold for notability. By the way, to the closer, two things to keep in mind: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Badlydrawnjeff#Summary deletion of BLPs requires that "[an article deleted due to biographies of living persons concerns] must not be restored, whether through undeletion or otherwise, without an actual consensus to do so" - therefore, there must be a clear consensus to restore this article should you close it in that manner, and if there's no consensus the outcome must default to keep deleted; and even if this is closed as allow an article, please do not close it as "overturn" and then undelete all the revisions, but rather close it as "allow recreation" and keep the old revisions deleted (as they were deleted under the biographies of living persons policy). I believe the article should not be recreated or undeleted. Daniel (talk) 10:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I'd be interested to read this encyclopedic threshold for notability policy you seem to be quoting from, all I can find is WP:N which says: Significant coverage by multiple Reliable Secondary Sources Independent of the subject. - check the draft article for the sources, or hell, do a google news search. Fosnez (talk) 05:40, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse deletion, per Lankiveil. east.718 at 10:07, May 16, 2008
- Endorse deletion so what if he's set to release a single that is a cover of someone else's work? Are we now going to allow every garage band onto Wikipedia because they have a single they are just about to release? I also note that not one of the big brother housemates has their own article, much less a *guest*. The people who want this article restored are grasping at straws. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- CommentNo, but combin the with the other things he's done, and you get:
- The single, if it has even been released, is of zero consequence until it hits a chart; intruders on Big Brother are not inherently notable; show me some academic coverage regarding this lad being synonymous with "Generation Z" in Australia; etc. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep deleted. He is most notable for trying to be notable; the limited success he has achieved is not worth the long term damage we do by allowing a minor of little significance to be the subject of a biography that will probably be scathing, a magnet for vandalism and an opportunity for attacks. Lets wait till he has done something of merit, or is no longer a minor, before taking that step. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Status note With no prejudice to the outcome of this DRV, at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 May 16 this title was turned into a redirect to the one article in which he is currently mentioned. The closer there explicitly notes that the closure here, if allowing an article, should overrule that action. GRBerry 13:38, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for copying that over, GRBerry, I forgot all about doing so :) Yes, naturally, if a DRV finds a consensus for an article to exist, that will override an editorial decision to redirect. Daniel (talk) 13:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep deleted for now. This no longer strikes me as a BLP1E issue as the subject is now actively courting publicity, that said the article is likely to be a magnet for BLP projects as John points out. All in all, I am simply not convinced that this person meets our notability requirements. Per some of the comments above, lets wait to see how he does in Big Brother and how high his musical offerings chart... WjBscribe 13:48, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment According to WP:N notability is defined as: Significant coverage by multiple Reliable Secondary Sources Independent of the subject. - please check the draft article for sources, and you can see that infact it does meet WP:N
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