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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Russ Martin

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep, certainly no consensus to delete. NawlinWiki 02:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Russ Martin

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Note to closing admin: this AfD was heavily vandalised/meatpuppet-ed. There were lots of keep !votes (and little more) from spas/meatpuppets on this page, but these were reverted and the page semi-protected after a report here at WP:AN/I. They're now leaving their hundreds of keep votes on this here talk page. Regards, AllynJ (talk | contribs) 21:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • I'm subscribed to a mailing list for Russ's fans. He personally sent out an e-mail with a link to his article saying "I guess we don't matter, go get 'em". All the vandalism and meatpuppetry (whatever that is) was probably from some of his fans. I don't see why they (or russ) would really give a damn about whether or not his page will be deleted, but oh well. Shnakepup 18:26, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hehehe...Russ just mentioned this deletion on the air. He jokingly agreed that he's not notable enough for an article, and said something to the effect of "well, I guess we'll see the fallout of this on the Arbitron ratings..."Shnakepup 00:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I will agree there was a time where this page went outside the scope of the Wiki Guidelines. Overall though, he is well known and has been a successful radio personality in North Texas for over 10 yrs. In addition, he continues to do documented charity in the North Texas area for animal shelters and Police/Fire Departments. As such, provided that page is not high jacked and taken off the deep end (when it happened though, it really was quite funny), he 05:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)should have a page.Eroeder 01:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Russ Martin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

He's one of several local DJs radio talk show hosts in the Dallas area, not syndicated. He is mentioned in passing from time to time in the Dallas media (see talk page for links), not unlike local traffic reporters and weatherpersons. There are some brief mentions of charity work he's done, but plenty of people get brief local media mentions for charity work; that doesn't make them notable. The article is all OR, which is not in itself a reason to delete, but the apparent fact that none of his biography or "notable bits" can be independently sourced suggests that this guy just isn't notable enough to merit an article. Cap'n Walker 16:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment What exactly are the criteria for entry into the Wikipedia. I submit it would be difficult to argue that Russ Martin doesn't warrant an entry while Geoff Lloyd does. There will no doubt be people who come to the Wikipedia looking for a Russ Martin entry and it seems there should be one in the event they do. With that s*Keep The more I research this, the more obvious it becomes that this user is abusing the deletion process by selectively targeting this radio station and/or the Russ Martin Show. This program is NUMBER 1 in its afternoon drive time slot in the NUMBER 5 radio market in the U.S. And I have found numerous other Dallas/Fort Worth radio personalities on Wikipedia whose ratings pale in comparison and who have not been targeted for deletion for "lacking notability". This luser needs to pull his head out of his ace, get an f-ing life, and leave real articles of interest alone. This luser's intellect and maturity "lack notability", and whose childish requests, if given in to, will make Wikipedia a site that eventually no one will want to visit. J.A.McCoy 01:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)aid, I would have to agree with MarkBul that this does not look to be much more than an attempt at a Wikipedia page put together by a fan or someone close to Mr. Martin. The problem is verification of much of the content through news articles and such is not really possible here because Russ Martin is known for not doing interviews. If we are to accept that news articles based on interviews (in which Mr. Martin would likely not be straightforward anyway) are the only "reliable sources" upon which to base a Wikipedia entry then there needs to be work on finding new criteria. My point is this: just because he doesn't do interviews doesn't mean he doesn't warrant an entry because he does. I've seen the Arbitron ratings and he has ratings in some categories which have never been accomplished in his market or many others for that matter. Problem there is Arbitron ratings are not available to the general public and therefore cannot be cited as a source. I don't have a delete/keep opinion to offer... only my comments for consideration.[reply]
  • Comment I don't know what the standard is for local media people, but that certainly is a bad page - it screams "fansite". If you edit it to clean it up, the fanboys will just revert to the hilarious anecdotes. If someone can find articles about him in the local media, I'd say Keep. If not, it's a Delete. MarkBul 17:33, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep A few articles, one profiling his show, but I'm not sure it's enough. He is on a notable station in a rather large area, Dallas/Ft. Worth and has gained some local fame as "the guy who came in after Howard".--Sethacus 17:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete totally non-notable individual - this verges on vanispamicruft. Bigdaddy1981 21:53, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Quite notable to people in Texas. I would estimate several tens of thousands of people based on the ratings the show gets. Whether the site is poorly written is a quality issue, not a notability issue. There seem to be plenty of city-centric DJs with articles on Wikipedia (click around here) that don't seem to be bothering anyone. Some quick examples: 669 Radio Show, Matt Casey, William Eric Alexander, Paul Allen (radio), Rocky Allen, Armen Williams, Terry Anderson (radio), Casey Dolan, yada yada. I'm sure the power users will start throwing out Wikipedia guidline links but I'm not interested. I think if this article gets deleted I'll be saying adiós to Wikipedia. It will be one deleted article too many for me. ♫ Bitch and Complain Sooner ♫ 23:01, 20 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Which means this is a witch-hunt to get rid of this specific article since all the article links I provided (and there are many many others in that category) would qualify for deletion under the same reasoning as this one - but they don't matter, just Russ Martin's article. Even Mark Davis, another local DJ, has an article about him (and his show a separate one). Another prime example of power users here getting to decide what stays and what doesn't. ♫ Bitch and Complain Sooner ♫ 17:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • He was syndicated in Austin. After the program manager (Dusty Hayes) down there decided to pull Martin, the station's ratings magically rose when the books came out a few weeks later - so he's known outside of Dallas. There are over 6 million potential listeners in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex. Hardly un-notable if his show is number one. ♫ Bitch and Complain Sooner ♫ 17:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't think he's notable on the basis of "potential listeners," and a very brief syndication in Austin makes little difference. Cap'n Walker 18:48, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • I noticed you ignored the comment about the show being number one so I thought I would follow up. When a talk radio show beats out every station in the ratings, including music programming, it is significant. On top of that, his show is during afternoon/evening drive time (3-7 PM), so being number one means you're reaching a huge listener base. I will note that "number one" can mean lots of things. Key demographics for advertisers are 18-34, 25-54, and the like; men in these age groups are a sought after more than women because of the reality of their buying power. Between summer 2004 and summer 2005, Russ Martin Show maintained its No. 1 spot with adults 25-54, and rose from third to first for adults 18-34. Russ has been voted "Best Talk Host" by D Magazine and has been Readers Choice for Best Radio Talk Show in the Dallas Observer Readers Poll. All of this seems notable to me. I agree as previously stated that the key to this debate should focus on the article's content and not whether Russ is noteworthy; he is clearly noteworthy if for nothing other than controversy.--Randallking 12:35, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Unless the article is sourced to prove the notability. • Lawrence Cohen 06:40, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Clearly unnotable. Eusebeus 12:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Russ Martin is not only well known, but he's clearly "notable" for his contributions to D/FW. He established the Russ Martin Show Listener's Foundation, which aides the families of fallen police and fire personel. In addition, to honor police, fire and military personel while they are still with us, he established an annual Heroes Parade. He also supports and promotes the welfare of animals. He sits on the board of (and mentions on a weekly basis) Operation Kindness, a no-kill animal shelter. All of this is verifiable through his website: www.russmartin.com. Also visit www.operationkindness.org. Davidetoms 19:13, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I don't see any reliable sources that aren't trivial in the article that prove any notability. Whispering 16:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • KEEP In addition to being a TOP RATED MAJOR MARKET (Market 5) RADIO PERSONALITY, Russ has been pivotal in pioneering the Russ Martin Show Listener's Foundation, a charity that benefits the families of Police and Fire workers who have selflessly and courageously fallen in the line of duty. That same charity also hosts a yearly parade to celebrate Police, Fire, and Military; a parade that is also listed on Wikipedia: Heroes_Day_Parade. Russ is also on the boards of numerous other local charities and is an advocate for the humane treatment of animals, often donating LARGE sums of money towards rewards for information that can prosecute those who have viciously maimed and/or killed animals in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex. Russ Martin is very much a significant part of North Texas, and not just some small town "local jock". --BlaculaDave —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 17:39, 22 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I agree with the other wikipedians here who say we should keep the article. This article has a lot of quality issues -- probably needs a total rewrite with a lot more sources -- but I think it's ridiculous to suggest that Russ Martin isn't notable. A lot of people here seem to be making the mistake of saying "Well, I haven't heard of him, so he can't be that notable..." Shnakepup 18:22, 23 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, the article does need more sources. The ultimate irony, however, is that Russ can’t stand excessive praise for his charity work. In fact, he often snubs the news media when they want to mention his name because he thinks it’s ostentatious and that it cheapens his good deeds. Davidetoms 19:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • My my, it seems that we have a Colbert Einstein situation here(rabid fans with computers). I am actually a little surprised notability is the major issue here. Having a number one show many years running in the number five market in the country has generated some mentions within the Dallas and larger radio community. Talkers Magazine, Dallas Observer, and D Magazine are all legit sources. If they weren't mentioned before in the article then they should be inserted. I'm all for cleaning the fancruft. But I think this one passes notability...so keep—Cronholm144 05:42, 27 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I havent heard of him before, but he seems famous enough in his area. Mbisanz 19:16, 28 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Same reasoning as Mbisanz Tiptopper 21:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC) 28-Sep-2007[reply]
  • Keep Since he appears as #56 on the Heavy Hundred list established by Talkers Magazine, which is taken seriously by the Boston Globe in this article. By proceeding down through the Heavy Hundred list I note that many (though not all) of those listed down through the number 60 have Wikipedia articles (perhaps two thirds of them). This list seems to establish that Russ Martin has more than purely local significance. Obviously the article could be better, and obviously not all the Keep arguments make sense in the light of actual WP policy. EdJohnston 02:27, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The more I research this, the more obvious it becomes that this user is abusing the deletion process by selectively targeting this radio station and/or the Russ Martin Show. This program is NUMBER 1 in its afternoon drive time slot in the NUMBER 5 radio market in the U.S. And I have found numerous other Dallas/Fort Worth radio personalities on Wikipedia whose ratings pale in comparison and who have not been targeted for deletion for "lacking notability". J.A.McCoy 01:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks stripped out of this vote, user blocked for disruption and personal attacks. ViridaeTalk 02:47, 29 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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