Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Air Malta destinations

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. I see a consensus here to Delete this article. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:40, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of Air Malta destinations

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Fails WP:NOT, WP:NCORP, and plain old common sense.

Let's start with common sense: why on earth do we have an article listing destinations that Air Malta DOES NOT FLY TO! Every destination here is listed as "terminated" or "Airport Closed"!

WP:NOT is failed under WP:NOTCATALOG no. 6 which states that "Listings to be avoided include [...] products and services". This is a straight forward listing of services that Air Malta possibly provided at some point but now no longer does.

WP:NCORP is failed because there is no evidence at all that the services offered by Air Malta are a notable topic based on reliable, independent, third-party sources that would meet WP:ORGIND. I could go through every single one of the sources cited but there is little point in repeating the same statement over and over - these are all either company announcements, or reports in local/industry press based entirely on company press-releases and statements. For example the Malta Today story is based entirely on a statement by a company spokesman.

This is also original research. None of these sources show that these flights were offered (or terminated) in January 2023. This can be said because none of the sources are dated to January 2023 - some are later, some are anything up to a decade or more earlier.

This is essentially an article entirely about run-of-the-mill announcements about services from a company that can change from one week to the next. It is the equivalent of an article trying to list the locations of all Burger Kings in August 1987 or all Pizza Huts in December 1998. Simply the worst kind of indiscriminate information. FOARP (talk) 16:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Business, Transportation, Lists, and Malta. FOARP (talk) 16:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Aviation-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 17:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I can't believe the debate over airline destinations is still ongoing. Listings of every single place every airline has ever run a service to ever is textbook WP:INDISCRIMINATE, it's just bizarre. Commercial developments should be folded into main article prose, line changes that aren't part of a wider commercial development just aren't encyclopaedic. BrigadierG (talk) 20:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete indiscriminate list of services possibly provided at some point in time, per nom. Rosbif73 (talk) 21:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Linking previous nominations involving this page:

–24 October 2015– Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pages in Category:Lists of airline destinations;

–26 March 2024– Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of British Airways destinations. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 22:34, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Travel and tourism-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:49, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per arguments at List of Vietnam Airlines destinations. First of all Air Malta is no longer an extant business, so many of the points don't apply. I also have no idea what anyone here believes INDISCRIMINATE means, as there's a clear finite limit to what could possibly be on this list. SportingFlyer T·C 16:30, 18 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You want to keep a list.... of places... that Air Malta... doesn't fly to...? FOARP (talk) 07:47, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, because where Air Malta operated is encyclopedic information, and a verb tense is easily edited. SportingFlyer T·C 07:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Where... they don't fly to ... is encyclopaedic? A listing of destinations served on a random date of no actual significance, largely copied off a defunct company website, each listed as "terminated" with no other context, is "a summary of knowledge"? FOARP (talk) 08:28, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. It summarises where they flew shortly before they ceased trading. SportingFlyer T·C 11:39, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
January 2023 was more than a year before they stopped trading in March 2024. In a business where flights change from week to week that's hardly that close to that date. Even worse, this doesn't "[summarise] where they flew shortly before they ceased trading" because these are the destinations they may have flown to at any point up to ten years or more before they ceased trading (one is sourced to a 404 link visited in 2011) and plainly weren't flying to either in January 2023 or in March 2024.

The real point you're trying to make here is that any destination an airline ever flew to is, to you, automatically of encyclopaedic value. I don't think that's a position anyone on Wikipedia outside of airline fandom would endorse. FOARP (talk) 12:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Flights don't necessarily change weekly, and almost every flight change will be noted in at least some publication somewhere. Whenever there's a new flight to where I live it's generally news. There are airlines which wouldn't be notable enough for this information to be kept, but I am not making the argument you think I am making. The only thing we're looking at is if this is notable, and they're clearly of note: [1] [2] [3] [4] and an older [5] Most of your concerns can be solved through editing. SportingFlyer T·C 22:35, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just to cover off these sources:
Air Service One is industry press excluded under WP:ORGIND. The article is also entirely based on output from Cirium which is an aggregator of data from airlines. Ultimately everything in this piece comes direct from the Airline and is not independent.

Simple Flying is industry press excluded under WP:ORGIND. The article is entirely based on statements from the airline, again, not independent of the source.

Aviation Week is, again, industry press excluded under WP:ORGIND. The Central Bank of Malta (another branch of the Maltese government that owns the airlines) whose report is quoted is not independent of the subject, and anyway discusses the new airline KM Malta, and not the old airline.

Live and Let's Fly is a industry blog. The piece is based on a press-release from KM Malta.

Another Aviation Week piece based on a press-release.

Every single thing here is exactly the kind of run-of-the-mill reportage that WP:NORG clearly tells us doesn't count towards establishing notability - see particular WP:TRADES. FOARP (talk) 10:35, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of course it comes from the airline, the airline publishes its schedules and then it gets reported on in trade publications and in normal media: [6] It's not a good reason for excluding perfectly encyclopedic information. SportingFlyer T·C 16:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
None of which counts for NCORP. JoelleJay (talk) 01:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Since the airline is no longer operating I would suggest a reorganization so it's not just a table full of "Terminated", but my points at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Vietnam Airlines destinations apply here as well. Reywas92^Talk 17:35, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Subject lacks the needed seondary sourcing to meet the WP:NLIST and WP:NCORP. The aviation sources would seemingly help little for establishing notability per WP:AUD. Let'srun (talk) 04:45, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Air Malta#Destinations. Even if this table were notable, WP:PAGEDECIDE notes that there times when it is better to cover a notable topic as part of a larger page about a broader topic, with more context. This is one of those times; the target for the merge is not too big as to not be able to handle the table, and it makes sense to keep these two together in one article so as to present the information on the destinations within the broader context of the article on the airline. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 19:42, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 01:41, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Per @Reywas92 and @SportingFlyer

_Signed, Pichemist ^{( Contribs | Talk )} 15:40, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:IINFO. We shouldn't be hosting a list of every single place that Air Malta flew to in history. This is an indiscriminate collection of information because no careful judgment or selectivity was involved in making the list. Even if the airline flew to some random city for a couple months in the 1980s, it gets added to the list. Sunnya343 (talk) 22:55, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Egregious failure of IINFO/NCORP. The entries in this list are primary/non-independently-sourced and have no evidence of ever having been encyclopedic, so I would object to a merge. If any given destination is actually BALASP then it can be discussed in the main article, but nothing in this list is worth retaining. JoelleJay (talk) 01:43, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.