Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Douglas Trathen

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep - references provided assert notability and are clearly independent of the subject. NON-admin closure :: maelgwn - talk 06:35, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Douglas Trathen

Not notable, These peoples refences are Not independent of the subject. They have not received significant recognised awards or honors. So they don't pass WP:BIO & WP:PROF

Strong Keep Do a little research and you will see that in 1970, at the height of the Vietnam War, the Rev Doug Trathen's call for young Australian men to resist the draft was an enormous story in all the main stream press. His obituary in the Sydney Morning Herald almost thirty years later suggests that he was indeed notable. That obituary is without doubt independent of the subject. It is difficult to believe that the nominator in this instance knows anything of the subject or the times. Tallum 09:15, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Per WP:BIO "If the depth of coverage is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may need to be cited to establish notability." A obituary would not be substantial. ExtraDry 09:19, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages

Michael Howe (headmaster) ExtraDry 08:34, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have split this multiple nomination as there is confusion over which !votes apply, and different assertions of notability. Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Howe (headmaster)

Delete. Being a headmaster of some random school is not notable. Shabda 08:58, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

* Keep Howe taught on three continents in the mid-19th century, was Headmaster of one of the most historic schools in Canada and then Headmaster of a GPS School in Australia. At a time when most teachers were lucky to leave their village he looks pretty notable to me. Can somone fill in the blanks and tell us why he left Jarvis? That might make Howe really notable. This one needs considerable work - lets give it a chance. Tallum 09:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC) **Comment Please look at WP:BIO for what is notable. Your more than welcome to copy it over to your userspace and work on it over there. ExtraDry 09:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC) Comment Please look closely at this call for deletion by ExtraDry - it is difficult to assume good faith with this editor's current record of disruption. Tallum 09:08, 5 August 2007 (UTC) ~~:Please do not make false accusations. ExtraDry 09:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC)~~ (moved to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Howe (headmaster))[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletions. -- Canley 09:31, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep Douglas Trathen is also referred to in a large section concerning "The Trathen case" in the book A Nation at War: Australian Politics, Society and Diplomacy During the Vietnam War 1965-1975 by Peter Edwards (see Google Books). That's another independent reliable source (i.e. multiple), and the book clearly explains the substantial effect of Trathen's actions in Australia. --Canley 09:43, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Although it appears he wrote a letter that (somewhat indirectly) led to his resignation, it isn't clear that this incident makes him notable or received substantial coverage or had a lasting impact. --Dhartung | Talk 12:02, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletions. —David Eppstein 16:38, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The Trathen affair was a major religious, political and moral issue and says a great deal about the conservative nature of the church and GPS education in the 1970s. He is without doubt a notable Australian churchman and headmaster. Waterdanks 21:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Notable and referenced. Needs expansion. --Bduke 22:15, 5 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Canley's reference. Article needs better sourcing but that is a case for cleanup not deletion. Capitalistroadster 02:39, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, notable, referenced, encyclopedic. Hesperian 04:07, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per lack of references to his notability. An obituary does not establish notability Corpx 04:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep per Canley. Capitalistroadster makes an excellent point. JRG 05:01, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep per Canley and Capitalistroadster. Needs to be rewritten with emphasis on the Vietnam issue. The Null Device 11:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep Read all the national newspapers mid-year 1970 and you will see how notable Douglas Trathen was. If this call for deletion is part of an attack on Newington College and Old Newingtonians it seems odd as Trathen was sacked by the College before they realised that they didn't have the power do do so (as an ordained minister the church alone had the power) and the whole incident caused a great deal of embarrassment to the College Council and its chairman, the General Manager of the ABC Sir Talbot Duckmanton. Trahten's notability is about the anti-war movement and Newington is just a sideline. The nom hasn't done any homework and is being disruptive at best. Mitchplusone 11:32, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Connect Trathen with well written articles on Sir Sir Alan Walker who was President of the Methodist Conference at the time, Talbot Duckmanton of the ABC (who was Chairman of Newington College Council) and the anti-war movement in Australia during the Vietnam War and Trathen's notability becomes very clear. The issue is dicussed in school history programmes to this day as evidenced by the VCE and Shrine of Remembrance study guide.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.