Template talk:Did you know

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Did you know?
Introduction and rules
Introduction	WP:DYK
General discussion	WT:DYK
Guidelines	WP:DYKCRIT
Reviewer instructions	WP:DYKRI
Nominations
Nominate an article	WP:DYKCNN
Awaiting approval	WP:DYKN
Approved	WP:DYKNA
April 1 hooks	WP:DYKAPRIL
Holding area	WP:SOHA
Preparation
Preps and queues	T:DYK/Q
Prepper instructions	WP:DYKPBI
Admin instructions	WP:DYKAI
Main Page errors	WP:ERRORS
History
Statistics	WP:DYKSTATS
Archived sets	WP:DYKA
Just for fun
Monthly wraps	WP:DYKW
Awards	WP:DYKAWARDS
Userboxes	WP:DYKUBX
Hall of Fame	WP:DYK/HoF
List of users ...
... by nominations	WP:DYKNC
... by promotions	WP:DYKPC
Administrative
Scripts and bots	WP:DYKSB
On the Main Page	T:DYK
Main Page errors	WP:ERRORS
To ping the DYK admins	{{DYK admins}}

For instructions on how to nominate an article, see Template:DYK nomination header § Instructions for nominators.

"Template:Did you know nominations" redirects here. For the list of approved nominations, see Template talk:Did you know/Approved.

This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a staging area and then promoted into the Queue. To update this page, it.

TOC:   ↓ Go to bottom ↓     ↑ Go to top ↑

Count of DYK Hooks
Section	# of Hooks	# Verified
August 20	1	1
September 27	1
October 9	1	1
October 15	2	2
October 18	3	1
October 19	2	2
October 20	1	1
October 22	1	1
October 24	2	1
October 25	1
October 28	4	2
October 30	1	1
October 31	3	1
November 1	2
November 2	3	1
November 3	2	2
November 4	4	1
November 5	3	1
November 7	4	2
November 8	3
November 9	3	2
November 10	4
November 11	4	4
November 12	1
November 13	3	2
November 14	2	2
November 15	5	2
November 16	4	2
November 17	3	1
November 18	7	6
November 19	6	2
November 20	6	6
November 21	12	10
November 22	10	8
November 23	2	2
November 24	5	4
November 25	6	5
November 26	5	2
November 27	8	7
November 28	4	3
November 29	10	7
November 30	6	6
December 1	10	9
December 2	5	3
December 3	7	6
December 4	9	7
December 5	6	2
December 6	4
December 7	1
December 8	1
December 9	1
December 10	2
December 11	1
December 12	1
December 13	3
December 14	9
December 15	1
Total	221	131
Last updated 17:57, 15 December 2024 UTC Current time is 17:59, 15 December 2024 UTC [refresh]

Instructions for nominators

If this is your first nomination, please read the DYK rules before continuing. Further information can be found at the DYK guidelines.

Nominate an article

Frequently asked questions

How do I write an interesting hook?

Successful hooks tend to have several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.

When will my nomination be reviewed?

This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below). Because of WP:DYKTIMEOUT, a nomination should be reviewed within two months since the reviewer/promoter may agree to reject and close an unpromoted hook after that time has passed.

Where is my hook?

If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.

If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.

Instructions for reviewers

Main page: Wikipedia:Did you know/Reviewing guide

Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.

To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:

• Look through this page, Template talk:Did you know, to find a nomination you would like to comment on.
• Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
• The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
• To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:

  Article length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.

  If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a line :* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING  :* --> showing you where you should put the comment.
• Save the page.
• After the nomination is approved, a bot will automatically list the nomination page on Template talk:Did you know/Approved.

If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.

Advanced procedures

How to promote an accepted hook

At-a-glance instructions on how to promote an approved hook to a prep area

See Wikipedia:Did you know/Preparation areas for details on verifying a hook's acceptability. Promoters should not promote their own nomination or their own review. When promoting hooks intended for a particular date, keep in mind that when the number of available approved nominations exceeds 120 we switch to two sets per day, and when that number drops below 60 we return to one set per day. Check list for nomination review completeness Select a hook from the approved nominations page that has one of these ticks at the bottom post: . Check to make sure basic review requirements were completed. Any outstanding issue following needs to be addressed before promoting. Check the article history for any substantive changes since it was nominated or reviewed. Images for the lead slot must be freely licensed. Fair-use images are not permitted. Images loaded on Commons that appear on the Main Page are automatically protected by KrinkleBot. Hook must be stated in both the article and source (which must be cited at the end of the article sentence where stated). Hook should make sense grammatically. Try to vary subject matters within each prep area. Try to select a funny, quirky or otherwise upbeat hook for the last or bottom hook in the set. Steps to add a hook to prep In one tab, open the nomination page of the hook you want to promote. In a second tab, open the prep set you intend to add the hook to. Wanna skip all this fuss? Install WP:PSHAW instead! Does most of the heavy lifting for ya :) For hooks held for specific dates, refer to "Local update times" section on DYK Queue. Completed Prep area number sets will be promoted by an administrator to corresponding Queue number. Copy and paste the hook into a chosen slot. Make sure there's a space between ... and that, and a ? at the end. Check that there's a bold link to the article. If it's the lead (first) hook, paste the image where indicated at the top of the template. Copy and paste ALL the credit information (the {{DYKmake}} and {{DYKnom}} templates) at the bottom Check your work in the prep's Preview mode. At the bottom under "Credits", to the right of each article should have the link "View nom subpage" ; if not, a subpage parameter will need to be added to the DYKmake. Save the Prep page. Closing the DYK nomination page At the upper left Change {{DYKsubpage to {{subst:DYKsubpage Change |passed= to |passed=yes At the bottom Just above the line containing }}<!--Please do not write below this line or remove this line. Place comments above this line.--> insert a new, separate line containing one of the following: To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]] To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]] To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]] To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]] To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]] To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]] To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]] Also paste the same thing into the edit summary. Check in Preview mode. Make sure everything is against a pale blue background (nothing outside) and there are no stray characters, like }}, at the top or bottom. Save. For more information, please see T:TDYK#How to promote an accepted hook.

Handy copy sources:

• To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
• To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
• To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
• To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
• To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
• To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
• To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]

How to remove a rejected hook

• Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
• In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line {{DYKsubpage with {{subst:DYKsubpage, and replace |passed= with |passed=no. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.

How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue

• Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
• Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
  • View the edit history for that page
  • Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
  • Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
• Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
• If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.

How to move a nomination subpage to a new name

• Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.

Nominations

Older nominations

Articles created/expanded on August 20

IMAX Melbourne

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the largest IMAX cinema in the southern hemisphere is in Melbourne?

Created by Mjks28 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Mjks28 (talk) 01:03, 29 August 2024 (UTC).

• General eligibility:
• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems: - Article was nominated 9 days after being moved to mainspace. The limit is 7 days.

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Cambalachero (talk) 18:39, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

@Cambalachero: Per WP:DYKNEW, "The seven-day limit can be extended for a day or two upon request." For a relatively new nominator, I'd take this.--Launchballer 00:04, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

OK Cambalachero (talk) 14:53, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Pulled from Prep 3. The hook fact is cited to promotional material from the theatre, which is insufficient for such an exceptional claim.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:11, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

@Mjks28 and Cambalachero: Please address the above.--Launchballer 23:59, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Two new sources ([1] and [2]) have been added to the article to back up the hook. I hope this suffices. Please let me know if there is anything else that needs to be done.—Mjks28 (talk) 02:49, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

The problem you have is that the hook is an WP:EXCEPTIONAL claim, which means it needs exceptional sourcing. The article currently cites Melbourne International Film Festival, Beat (magazine), and Onlymelbourne.com.au, none of which fill me with confidence.--Launchballer 15:13, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

How does one quantify if the given sources are reliable enough to support an exceptional claim? Is there a minimum amount of sources needed, and are there only certain types of publications allowed?—Mjks28 (talk) 03:11, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I've had another look and now I'm not sure. @Crisco 1492:, what do you think?--Launchballer 16:59, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

• Ideally an industry standard would work, but I think between MIFF and Beat we should have enough. The main reason I flagged this originally was the use of a primary source, which is definitely a no-no. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 17:12, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I think so as well. Unless there are any further objections, let's roll.--Launchballer 17:56, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on September 27

Phoebe Plummer

( Comment or view )

( Article history links:

• Phoebe Plummer
• Anna Holland
• Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest
• Christopher Hehir

)

• ... that during Phoebe Plummer's May 2024 jury trial over a climate protest, the court finished early on several days due to the heat? Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/15/uk-climate-activists-convicted-in-first-trial-of-new-anti-protest-laws
  • ALT1: ... that an October 2022 protest involving Just Stop Oil member Phoebe Plummer inspired many activists worldwide to throw food at paintings? Source: https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/11/17/just-stop-oil-phoebe-plummer-prison/
  • ALT2: ... that when Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland faced trial over the Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest, they were "unfortunate" to draw Christopher Hehir as judge? Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/30/just-stop-oil-soup-throwing-protests-moral-toddlerhood/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Zero-emission zone in Oxford, Template:Did you know nominations/CyberJoly Drim, Template:Did you know nominations/Ajah Pritchard-Lolo, Template:Did you know nominations/Alison Creagh
  • Comment: Plummer was created 27 September, though I did a 5x expansion on 2 October, added Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest three days later, added Christopher Hehir two days after that, and added Holland on 5 November.

Created by Launchballer (talk) and Folkezoft (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 253 past nominations.

Launchballer 03:13, 2 October 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Ooh, a quadruple hook. All of the articles are new enough, long enough, and well cited. There are a few places where phrasing could be a bit more neutral (I feel like inspired would be better than empowered, for example), but those may also be stylstic considerations. Earwig isn't happy, but it's the large block quote that speaks to Plummer's inspiration in that instance. Ideally Hehir's article would have a bit more on his early life, but if the sources aren't talking about it, rather difficult. (Minor quibble: the source says "unfortunately" rather than "unfortunate", but I think it works here).  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

This has been sitting near the top of Approved for over a week. What else do I have to do to get this promoted? (For the record, I believe "unfortunately" --> "unfortunate" is covered by MOS:SIC.)--Launchballer 02:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Not entirely sure that Holland in particular meets the independent notability standards of WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

She's a lot more borderline than Plummer, I'll admit that. From memory, there's significant coverage of her role in Politico at least and this Prospect piece was what clinched it for me, but I will of course take another look later.--Launchballer 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Since we are dealing with a BLP, I think we should veer on the side of safety as described in WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

I've had another look and I believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL#unusual crime.--Launchballer 00:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I'll wait for another promoter's opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@AirshipJungleman29: This nomination is over two months old. I still believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL, but is it worth posting at WT:DYK (though arguably this'll get another review when it's queued anyway)?--Launchballer 14:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Sure, why not? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Posted there.--Launchballer 03:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I have started an AfD. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:29, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

• Nomination must go on hold until the AfD finishes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:38, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on October 18

Luo Shiwen

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Luo Shiwen

• ... that Luo Shiwen (pictured) led a secret cell of the Chinese Communist Party while detained at a Kuomintang concentration camp?

• Source: * Li Jingya (李惊亚) (4 April 2024). 探访息烽集中营旧址，追寻先烈们的热血与信仰 [Visit the Site of Xifeng Concentration Camp and Trace the Passion and Faith of the Martyrs]. Xinhua Daily Telegraph (in Chinese). Xinhua News Agency. Archived from the original on 14 October 2024. Retrieved 14 October 2024. (existence of the secret cell and its power is also confirmed by Mühlhahn, Klaus (2009). Criminal Justice in China: A History. Cambridge: Harvard University Press. p. 144. ISBN 978-0-674-05433-2.)

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anaïs Gallagher (3 of 3)

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 691 past nominations.

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - Much of the article is cited to sources like "Devoting One's Efforts to the Party and the People is the Least of One's Worries——Deeds of Martyr Luo Shiwen", which doesn't speak well to their reliability. There is no consensus that Chinese government published sources are reliable for heroic deeds of party members (see, eg, WP:XINHUA).
• Neutral: - Unclear, see above
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - ? Unable to evaluate translation copyvio from Chinese language sources

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting: - Hook could use improvement. Such underground groups developed in so many locations that political prisoners are jailed together

Image eligibility:

• Freely licensed:
• Used in article:
• Clear at 100px: - Bad quality pic, main page viewers would be better served by not running it

QPQ: Done.

Overall: (t · c) buidhe 04:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

• Hi Buidhe. Thank you for taking a look at this article, though I note that you are supposed to notify the article's creator if you find issues.

Referring to WP:XINHUA, which you mentioned in your review, the quorum mentioned there reads "Caution should be exercised in using this source, extremely so in case of extraordinary claims on controversial subjects or biographies of living people. When in doubt, try to find better sources instead; use inline attribution if you must use Xinhua." Little mentioned in the Luo Xinhua article crosses the bar of "extraordinary claims", and what does cross that bar is specifically attributed to the source (with an indication that it is state-owned). He lived, he did something, he was detained, he was executed. Where these government sources have been used, I have been careful not to use their description of persons whom the CCP has no reason to like (for example, the conflict with Zhang Guotao is cited to Howard rather than the decidedly less neutral CCP sources, and discussion of Xifeng is cited predominantly to a Harvard University Press book). Likewise, I have deliberately excluded politically charged claims such as Luo's father being bankrupted by the high ROC taxes.

As per WP:PARTISAN, "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective." WP:CONTEXTMATTERS clarifies that "Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content." In this case, the sources are used specifically for basic statements of biography. Where statements were extraordinary, such as Mao and Zhou specifically asking for Luo's release, it has been attributed to the source with an indication of the source's potential bias.

As for the hook, I am deliberately avoiding claims that are sourced exclusively to state-media. How do you feel about:

ALT1 ... that Luo Shiwen (pictured) led a secret cell of the Chinese Communist Party that negotiated better conditions for inmates at their concentration camp?

That ALT is supported entirely by Mühlhahn. Regards,  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 12:28, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Xinhua is, according to consensus, generally reliable for factual reporting except in areas where the government of China may have a reason to use it for propaganda, but this topic is exactly one where the Chinese government would have an interest in distorting its own history in order to make the CCP look better. Perhaps other reviewers would have a different opinion, but I don't think that Chinese government published sources should be cited so heavily. (In case you are looking for additional sources, this one is accessible via TWL and seems to mention the article subject). (t · c) buidhe 00:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

• I think I have Wakeman sitting around somewhere. I'll cite that for a few points, and I can cite some more to the pithy provided by Howard. That being said, a blanket prohibition against mainland Chinese sources (we've been talking about Xinhua, but Sichuan Annals are cited more prevalently, and both the original books and the web edition have the same government ties) for a figure of little interest to KMT historians does seem counter-productive. It may be best to have a third opinion. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:39, 20 October 2024 (UTC)

• @Buidhe: Have your concerns been resolved and is this approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 23:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• I think we were looking at having a third party take a look, but I wasn't sure how to proceed.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:17, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I also don't think there should be a ban on CCP sources for uncontroversial statements. I'll investigate further when my head's a bit clearer.--Launchballer 10:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Or indeed, any Chinese government-backed sources; claims should be assessed on their merits. (They probably aren't making up "son of a saltmonger", for example.) @Buidhe: what specific sentences are you objecting to?--Launchballer 13:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

My interpretation (see above) is that there is a consensus that the Chinese government sources are not reliable where they have an incentive to lie for propaganda purposes. When it comes to the heroic deeds of a Communist party member, there is an obvious incentive for propaganda. This does not apply to basic biographical information that does not reflect positively or negatively on the subject (t · c) buidhe 02:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Crisco 1492: Are you able to find other, more reliable sources to verify the information? Z1720 (talk) 15:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

• Hi Z1720; as I mentioned above, I have attributed all extraordinary claims to non-Party sources, or made it explicit that sources may be biased in the running text. The remainder is, to the best of my assessment, basic biographic data (for example, "At the time, following the May Fourth Movement and in the midst of the New Culture Movement, he and his cousins had begun reading communist publication", cited to the Sichuan Annals). One might object to "inciting more [peasant] uprisings", but given that was the standard MO of the CCP in the 1930s, I don't feel that it meets the extraordinary or heroic threshold.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the article, I don't think any of the claims sourced to refs 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 13, 17, 18, or 19 meet the criteria outlined at WP:EXCEPTIONAL.--Launchballer 01:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Requesting a reviewer. Right now we seem to be at an impasse.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

White Party (Sean Combs)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Sean Combs promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?

• Source: ["No one would ever expect a young black man to be coming to a party with the Declaration of Independence, but I got it, and it's coming with me ... And I promise not to spill champagne on it" https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2004/07/07/p-diddy-does-politics/, https://archive.is/ivRpf, P. Diddy does politics, The Tampa Bay Times, 7 July 2004]

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Middlesex Regiment alien labour units

Created by No Swan So Fine (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 122 past nominations.

No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC).

• Hello No Swan So Fine: article created within a week of nomination; QPQ checks out; hook is interesting; no copyvio detected; source checks out. My only question: would it be better to call Mr. Combs by his more well known name of P. Diddy or Diddy? I'm not sure if I'd click on the DYK if it said Sean Combs, I'd be much more likely to do so if it said Diddy, given the recent news and memes. My only thought. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 05:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

@Darth Stabro: I think we should respect the name he currently goes by ... but P. Diddy is certainly better for views! No Swan So Fine (talk) 19:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

No Swan So Fine sounds good! Nihil obstat. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 04:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

@Darth Stabro and No Swan So Fine: I have MOS:EGG concerns regarding the hook, in that no-one will know where the bolded link goes. Any way to rephrase? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that during one of his Diddy parties, Sean Combs promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?

I like how that sounds.~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 00:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if the hook needs to specify "an original copy of", and I have no opinion if the hook should say "P Diddy" or not, though depending on how he was called at the time, maybe that might be a point of discussion? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on October 24

A Nail Clipper Romance

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Ekin Cheng delivered his lines in his native Cantonese in the Mandarin-language film A Nail Clipper Romance?

• Source:

• ALT1: ... that A Nail Clipper Romance is an extension of a 2010 short film of the same name which starred Zhou Xun? Source:
• ALT2: ... that Zhou Dongyu learned to surf while filming A Nail Clipper Romance in Hawaii? Source:
• ALT3: ... that Tiffany Ann Hsu made a cameo appearance in A Nail Clipper Romance at the invitation of lead actress Zhou Dongyu? Source:
• ALT4: ... that A Nail Clipper Romance marks the directorial debut of cinematographer Jason Kwan? Source:
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/You Are Here (song)

Created by Prince of Erebor (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 22 past nominations.

Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 06:17, 24 October 2024 (UTC).

Sources

• Comment: @Prince of Erebor: A few things stand out to me: the poor critical reception/box office performance? is played down in the lead section in a somewhat ingenious way, by emphasizing the positive reviews of the short film it is based upon. I think you should fix that as it presents a neutrality issue. In other words, summarize the reception in the lead, not the previous work. The other thing I noticed is that the article says the film took place in the state of Hawaii several times. While it’s fine to say that at least once, subsequent mention should specify it was filmed specifically on the island of Oahu in and around the city of Honolulu, if the sources can support that. There are also opportunities to link to specific articles about the Chinese population in Hawaii. Leaning towards ALT2 at the moment although I wonder if it can be made more interesting than it is with other details. More later. Viriditas (talk) 18:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Hi Viriditas! Thanks a lot for taking up the review, but I beg to differ with both of your current suggestions. The "positive reviews" in the lead refer to the short film, which explains why a full-length feature was developed afterward, and this is supported by multiple sources. I do not find this description to be faulty. Meanwhile, I have not found any sources that comment on or summarize the critical reception and box office performance. From the current reviews listed, I do not believe it is conclusive that the film was poorly received, as some critics have given it 3.5/5 and expressed various positive opinions on the premise, themes, and performances. Regarding box office performance, it is also subjective to judge whether it is positive or negative, as arthouse films like this one typically gross less than blockbusters. I would summarize the box office performance as poor only if supported by multiple sources, like in Miss Shampoo or The Invincible Dragon. For your second suggestion, I have only mentioned the film being shot in Hawaii once in the filming section. The other mentions focus on different topics, like casting choices or creative decisions based on the demographics of Hawaiians. There are no specific references to the filming locations in Hawaii, so I cannot specify which part of Hawaii the film was shot in. I am also unsure if mentioning the specific location has any bearing on why the crew chose to film there or why Ekin Cheng was willing to join the project. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 18:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I think you might have misunderstood me. By emphasizing the positive review of a different film in the lead, and ignoring the poor critical reception (3.5 is pretty mediocre, and there are other poor reviews and apparently bad box office results) that presents a neutrality issue. You will want to very briefly note the critical reception of this film in the lead, regardless of the positive reception of the other film. As for Hawaii, there are eight islands in the state. The film industry is in Oahu, but not all films are shot there. Given what we know so far, this entire film was shot on Oahu in and around Honolulu. This should be easy to source. I’m sorry we disagree. Viriditas (talk) 18:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Viriditas, I believe we are on the same page. My point is that the characterization of the film's box office performance and critical reception as "poor" is not supported by sources and is purely subjective. I see this as a form of OR. But I understand your concerns, and perhaps it would be better to remove the mention of positive reviews for the short film from the lead instead? Regarding the filming location, could you please provide me with the source that confirms the film was shot in Oahu? I conducted a research quite thoroughly while writing the article and do not recall seeing this mentioned in any English or Chinese RS. Please let me know if I am mistaken or have overlooked any sources. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Let's take it one topic at a time; my old brain doesn't multitask as well as it should. First things first: can you briefly summarize the critical reception in the lead? Viriditas (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Viriditas, my answer is no, because I do not see a conclusive consensus among the reviews. Summarizing the box office performance and a handful of critics' opinions subjectively and labeling the film as "poorly received" is a form of WP:SYNTH in my opinion. But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi, I think we might be speaking past each other. Is there any reason you cannot summarize the critical reception section you've written in the body of the article and add it to the lead, to the best of your ability? Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Perhaps you aren't aware of this, which would explain the back and forth. There's several ways to do it, but the most common involve characterizing the type of review in the first part of the sentence ("The film received mixed reviews from critics"), and then in the second part, describing the box office results ("and became a box office bomb"). These are just examples. Viriditas (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Viriditas, I believe we are still on the same page. I am aware that mixed reviews exist, I have used this term in another recent article of mine (Get the Hell Out). In that case, the inclusion was based on a cited Rotten Tomatoes score of 5.9, so it does not involve original research. Many film articles lack a summary of critical reception exactly because of WP:SYNTH. An example that come to mind is Deadpool and Wolverine, where editors voted not to include a critical reception summary in the lead due to concerns about SYNTH. There are also no sources indicating that the film failed at the box office. While it may not have grossed enough to make the list of top grossing films in 2017, that does not equate to it being a box office bomb, and I still see the assertion as a form of OR. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 19:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry, but it appears that you are still misreading me. Please summarize the critical reception to the best of your ability (as I described above) and place it in the lead section. The specific decision and rationale not to include a critical reception section in Deadpool and Wolverine does not apply here. Further, that film received mostly positive reviews, so the dispute in that particular instance isn't really relevant. We know D&W received a positive, critical reception. One of the problems here is how accurate or inaccurate Metacritic scores are in this regard, and that led to the perception that D&W received a less than positive reception. That's really getting into the weeds, and there's no similar problem here. However, you could ask, did this film receive mostly positive reviews, did it receive mixed reviews, or did it receive poor reviews? Whatever your answer is, please briefly mention it in the lead. By describing a different film as "positive" and ignoring the critical reception in the lead, you are giving readers a false impression of what the reception was actually like. This is a problem. Viriditas (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Viriditas, sorry but I believe you are also misreading me. I have already acknowledged your concern that the term "positive reviews" could mislead readers regarding the reception of this film, and I proposed removing the mention of the short film's reception. (But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception.) This should have already addressed your concerns about neutrality or misleading information. The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now. Adding a summary (positive, mixed, negative, whatever) you are suggesting is purely original research and a synthesis of the sources. If there are no sources or review aggregators to support the claim that the article is generally viewed as positive, divisive, or negative by critics, then adding my own assessment of their opinions would be considered SYNTH. I am also somewhat puzzled by this conversation, as identifying OR should be WP editing 101 and my concerns about WP:V should be quite clear. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 20:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now. No, it's actually quite different. It is not OR to summarize or to state the critical reception for this film in the lead and there's literally no connection to the arguments made in the D&W article, which received overwhelmingly positive reviews. This is why ignoring the critical reception in the lead for D&W is the default, as it received mostly positive, not negative feedback. I can assure you, if D&W had received a negative reception, the default would have been to mention that. By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception. Do you see how this works? The opposite is true here. You are free, of course, to do what you like, but priming the reader with mentioning a "positive" review of an altogether different film while ignoring the poor to mediocre, to mixed reviews (and box office performance) of this film is a neutrality issue. I'm once again sorry that we see this so differently. Perhaps you will find others to agree with your position. Viriditas (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Viriditas, I must respectfully disagree with you. The editors who participated in the survey for the D&W article specifically discussed issues related to synthesis. While the film may seem overwhelmingly positive to you, there are also negative reviews out there. In fact, all four wording options discussed in that survey addressed the non-positive, divisive reviews. By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception. The current critical response section also included negative reviews from like San Francisco Chronicle, The Hollywood Reporter, and one-star review from The Irish Times. So no, that is not the case. It is because reviews from an opposite stance exist, a positive/mixed reception summary would not be appropriate. This echoes my point that adding a subjective summary suggesting that the film underperformed based on what you and I think, constitutes original research. I have also repeatedly acknowledged your concern that the positive reception of the short film in the lead is misleading and have offered to remove that line. (I have rephrased it just now and I hope this address your concerns.) So I do not really see a reason to continue adding a summary of the reception and box office performance. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 20:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• That's definitely an improvement, but I do want to say that I see zero relationship between the argument made in the D&W discussion, which defaults to the absence of negative critical commentary in the lead based on all of the available evidence, as well as an indication that the critical reception was first and foremost controversial, and this article, which did not receive a positive reception and where the critical reception was not controversial. There's literally no comparison. I get that you are making this comparison, but it doesn't exist, IMO. Now, if you think the critical reception of this film was controversial, I am happy to review the matter, and if true, that is indeed, a supporting argument for keeping it out of the lead. But as far as I can tell, the critics and the audiences didn't like this film and it performed poorly at the box office. By keeping this out of the lead, it gives the impression of a neutrality problem. Now, with all that said, the question becomes, does it need to be in the lead? Aside from obvious controversies where representing the critical reception is difficult or disputed (i.e. D&W), I would say yes, but with the additional caveat that local consensus, as we've seen with D&W, can override this, particularly in instances where the default position doesn't deviate from the overall reception. It might help to get clarification from the film project talk page on this. They are usually pretty active, even during the holidays. The NPOV noticeboard might even be a better place, I don't know. However, keeping it out of the lead does not appear neutral to me at all. More so, if the sources emphasize that the film was received poorly with critics and the box office. So we are still divided on this subtopic. I would prefer to work towards an agreement on this with you, but I don't think that's going to happen. One other thing: have you added critical reception to the lead before in your other film articles that notes a poor, mediocre, or mixed reception status? If so, what makes this article different than the others? If not, why not? Your careful reasoning and answer to those two questions could conceivably bring me over to your side, leading me to drop this. Viriditas (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Viriditas , sorry, but I still only see you asserting that critics and audiences didn't like this film and that it performed poorly at the box office. Based on what is currently in the article, there are at least some positive to mediocre reviews, and the total gross exceeds the film's budget. It is hardly accurate to describe it as having a negative reception or being a box office bomb. Labeling the film in this way is just your subjective judgement based on what you have seen about the film and it truly harms the article's neutrality. While if the reception is mixed and the box office performance is merely average, whether or not to mention these is unrelated to neutrality and I do not see the urge to add such phrases. I am generally open to adding or removing content from articles, like I would be happy to include the precise filming locations you mentioned if sources are available, but this just seems like original research to me. I also do not see the necessity to escalate this, as again, I think this is WP editing 101. But I would not object to seeking a third opinion.
• Regarding your final question, yes, I certainly do. Examples include positive reviews for Mongrel (2024 film), mixed reviews for Get the Hell Out, and negative reviews for The Invincible Dragon. My rationale for adding a summary is based on the existence of a conclusive consensus among critics' opinions. For these articles, there are Rotten Tomatoes scores, which aggregate all critical reviews and can be interpreted as the consensus of the majority of critics. There are exceptions, like 18×2 Beyond Youthful Days, where multiple reputable sources describe the film as both a box office and critical success. But in this case, there is neither a consensus summarized by review aggregators nor multiple reliable sources. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 21:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Was this film a box office success or a box office bomb? In other words, did it break even by a large amount? When you look at the budget and compare it to the raw, unadjusted revenue, it looks like the film made US $34,000 dollars. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong? Also, your own source says it did poorly at the box office and implies it lost money because in that market romantic films do poorly. We're still not on the same page. I have not fully analyzed the critical reviews just yet so I'm keeping that separate until later. But it appears that in terms of the box office, the sources say it did not do well. Viriditas (talk) 22:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• @Viriditas: Yes, you have read things wrong. The film had a budget of USD$386,000 (HKD$3 million) excluding government funding, and grossed approximately USD$620,000 (RMB$4.49 million). I would not classify it as a box office success, and I am not well-versed in the film industry and cannot determine how much profit or loss the production company made based on these figures. However, it is common sense that a gross greater than the budget would not typically qualify as a box office bomb. Regarding the translated source, it refers to Zhou Dongyu's other film The Breaking Ice (燃冬), not this one (A Nail Clipper Romance; 指甲刀人魔). I am the one who added that source so of course I know what was written there... I have found no sources indicating that this film was a "box office failure". Please share any you might find. To be honest, I am starting to find this discussion somewhat pointless, as neither of us seems able to convince the other. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 22:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• This article (and your source) currently says the budget was HKD$4.9 million (US 629,714) which would give it a gross profit of $34k. Take at look at the article you wrote. Viriditas (talk) 22:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• 4.9 million including government funding, 3 million excluding. Do you really think I do not know what I typed in the article??
• Okay Viriditas, let me be clear. I believe your request to add a subjective summary labeling the film as poorly received and a box office failure constitutes blatant original research and violates WP:V. Your concerns about WP:NPOV have already been addressed with the removal of the short film's reception (which was actually sourced) from the lead. Even if a summary were included, it would only reflect "mixed reviews" and "average box office performance", which does not relate to your concerns about misleading or sugarcoating the film's actual reception. Since not adding a summary would no longer have anything to do with WP:NPOV, but adding one could impact both verifiability and neutrality imo, I refuse to include these policy-violating claims in the article. So we can either continue the review and set this issue aside, as your concerns have been adequately addressed, or you may choose to seek a third opinion, though I believe that is totally unnecessary. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 22:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I don’t know why you think summarizing the critical reception in the lead is a policy violation. That is an extremely unusual idea. Last comment to address the previous ones I ignored: "If a film released in theatres fails to break even by a large amount, it is considered a box-office bomb." List of biggest box-office bombs lists dozens of films that made more than their budget. That is neither here nor there. To address your previous point, you said I was citing material about a different film, but looking at it again after your criticism, it appears to be referring to this film. Here’s the material I was referring to: 和关智斌、张孝全等人主演的《指甲刀人魔》票房449.9万元。事实证明，演员能不能扛票房真的不好说，有运气和选剧本的能力左右，比如吴京主演的《巨齿鲨2》票房不如第一部，还有沈腾演出的《超能一家人》票房才3亿多，所以没有演员敢拍着胸膛说自己主演的电影票房一定大卖。当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影，其实制作成本可能也不是很高，但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片，所以她的票房都不怎么样，爱情片的票房本身就不是很高，特别偏文艺片的电影。If that means something else, let me know. My reading of this (当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影，其实制作成本可能也不是很高，但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片，所以她的票房都不怎么样，爱情片的票房本身就不是很高，特别偏文艺片的电影) is that it is referring to both films. Also, throughout this discussion you have insisted that I have wanted to add a qualitative statement to the lead, but you ignored the original question mark in my initial comment, identifying that I don’t know what that statement should actually be. I’ve tried to explain this to you, but you keep repeating the same thing for some odd reason. The questions remain: "how did critics receive this film and how well did it do at the box office?" As the reader, I wanted to know the answer. When I read the lead, I expected to find out, only to discover than an altogether different film received a positive reception, not this one. That is my last and final comment on this matter. Viriditas (talk) 23:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Viriditas, yes, I have already mentioned that the source did not address this. The source lists the box office grosses of Zhou Dongyu's entire filmography, ranging from A Fangirl's Romance at USD 329,000 to Embrace Again at USD 129 million. Even if you are viewing it through Google Translate, you can still see the listings and it is separated into different paragraphs. So the statements you quoted obviously do not refer to A Nail Clipper Romance, otherwise the $129 million gross would also become a box office failure. And no, I did not ignore your statements. I have repeatedly mentioned that mixed reviews fall under SYNTH as well, but you have repeatedly focused on the poor reception you perceive in your replies, which is why I feel the need to address it more often than the other potential stances. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 23:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• I said I wasn't going to revisit the above, so I won't. The problem of synth in regards to critical reception in lead sections was a specific, local consensus problem for D&W, not for other film articles. This was because of the unique set of circumstances regarding the sources. This was made clear in the responses by the participants. You are extrapolating the result of an article content page RFC out to all film leads. That's not how an article-specific RFC works at all. See WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. It may be wise to get some input from the larger film community over at their project page. Viriditas (talk) 23:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Addendum or coda: Derek Elley: "The film was shot back in late 2014 on Oahu island, around Honolulu. The Chinese title literally means “The Nail-Cutter Human Devil”. In the Mainland the film crashed and burned, grossing a tiny RMB4.5 million."[3] Viriditas (talk) 00:08, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

• Viriditas, this will be my final response on this issue as well, as I do not find this conversation progressing in a meaningful way. The reason I mentioned D&W is that you brought up "other articles". Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Therefore, I raised another article that also has a divisive reception and involved thorough discussions among editors regarding the decision to omit the reception summary, that aligns with the rationale I am proposing here. My intention was to provide a noteworthy example, one that is more high-traffic and has a relatively large number of participants in the RFC, to ensure we are on the same page and that the summary is not left out for other reasons or merely reflecting the consensus of a handful of random editors. Of course, I understand if you view the concerns raised by the editors in that RFC as specific to that article and reflective of a mere local consensus, as context always matters. I only hope this gives you a clearer picture of my and at least some editors' perspectives about the potential SYNTHiness in the lead reception summary. D&W is just an example, synthesis is my main point, and I have explained my rationale on adding these summaries as well. Perhaps we have different interpretations of the definition of OR, which is perfectly fine, as editors often have varying views on WP guidelines. I have already offered to remove the potentially NPOV-violating weasel words that has disturbed you multiple times (since my second reply), in hopes of truly addressing the issues. However, you have ignored this and instead continue to push for the addition of a summary that you deem necessary, without fully addressing why you believe SYNTH does not apply to the reception summary in this case, convincing me that the poor reception is supported by RS rather than personal opinions, or providing a new rationale after the NPOV concerns have been addressed. Therefore, as I said, while I would not object to seeking a third opinion to move this review forward, I still find it unnecessary because, to me, this is a clear case of SYNTH, and I do not find it beneficial to continue wasting time on it.
• Regarding the source, Sino-Cinema.com appeared to be a WP:RSPWORDPRESS blog to me. But upon checking the author, I would not object that Derek Elley may be considered a SME due to his career at Variety, and the filming locations are not controversial claims that would require the best, reputable sources, so I will treat this as a SPS. It is a nice addition, as it even details the filming period as late 2014, while the Screen Daily source only vaguely suggested the timeframe. I have added it to the article. Thanks for your finding!! —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 04:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Second opinion requested. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on October 25

Boxheim Documents

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SPD poster for the 1932 Prussian state election using these documents to attack the NSDAP

• ... that in 1931, Werner Best drafted for the Nazi Party the plans for a coup?

• Source: Press and Politics in the Weimar Republic. OUP Oxford. pp. 186–187.

• ALT1: ... that under a Nazi plan for a coup, Jews were to be deprived of food rations? Source: https://www.jta.org/archive/jews-to-be-starved-out-if-hitlerists-come-to-power-boxheim-documents-were-authentic-official-statem
• ALT2: ... that a Nazi plan for a coup involved the abolishment of private income, food confiscations, and mandatory labour? Source: Press and Politics in the Weimar Republic. OUP Oxford. pp. 186–187.
• Reviewed:

Created by Jean Po (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Jean Po (talk) 15:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC).

• The article was made on the 25th, so is new enough. At many times the required length, it is long enough. The article reads neutrally and properly uses in-line citations. The copyvio detector finds nothing outside of explicit quotes in the article. Both hooks are interesting and cited in-line and utilized properly from the listed sources. The suggested image is in the public domain and visibly identifiable. No QPQ needs to be done. Looks good to go! Silverseren^C 01:20, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

@Jean Po, Silver seren, and Crisco 1492: I have pulled this hook on interestingness grounds. There is nothing whatsoever unusual about Nazis treating Jews poorly.--Launchballer 21:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, what about the original hook? I think that the Nazis were planning a full out coup, rather than their (admitted coerced through other events) political victory later, is interesting, particularly the effects that had at the time of the reveal of this plan. Silverseren^C 22:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

No comment on interestingness, but I have tagged uncited material in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Jean Po: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Citations added. --Jean Po (talk) 17:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@Jean Po: Apologies for not responding earlier. ALT2 would need end-of-sentence citations rather than just trans tags.--Launchballer 13:16, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Done--Jean Po (talk) 13:40, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

It isn't.--Launchballer 02:29, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on October 28

Gilopez Kabayao

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• ... that violinist Gilopez Kabayao was the first Filipino to perform at New York's Carnegie Hall in 1950?

• Source: "As the first Filipino violinist to perform at the prestigious Carnegie Hall in New York in 1950, Gilopez Kabayao broke new ground and brought pride to the nation." —Philippine Daily Inquirer / Inquirer.net; "He performed in prestigious venues, including Carnegie Hall in New York in 1950, making him the first Filipino violinist to do so." —SunStar

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anatolii Brezvin
• Comment: Many sources state that Kabayao's Carnegie Hall performance in 1950 was done when he was 19 years old, but this is impossible if he was born in 1929 so I omitted this from the article and therefore the hook. This error might affect the hook under WP:EXCEPTIONAL and especially since a different source (Manila Bulletin) says, "Kabayao is widely believed to be the first Filipino to play at the prestigious Carnegie Hall in New York City".

Created by Seav (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

seav (talk) 23:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC).

• Considering the exceptional claim of him being the first, and thus the related uncertainty, maybe we could go with a different hook angle here. How about:

ALT1 ... that Filipino violinist Gilopez Kabayao was nicknamed the "Mozart to the Barrios"?

No opinion on the state of the article itself, although admittedly it is rather lacking in hooky material. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Article was new and long enough for DYK at the time of nomination. The opening paragraph reads a little puffy to me, with the nicknames and the virtuoso quote, especially since we don't say who gave him all these impressive sounding nicknames (ie, the press in general through his career? One guy one time and it stuck?). Is there a way to tone it down a bit, perhaps by giving them some context - he was given those names because he went to unusual places to play, and that's not even mentioned in the article.

Otherwise, no concerns about CV, all similar phrases are basic facts or proper nouns. No other policy concerns. NLH's suggested hook is present and referenced and reasonably interesting. No QPQ required, no other concerns. Pinging Seav to advise. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I am OK with ALT1 if we feel that the originally proposed hook is not sufficiently attested by the sources. As for the puffiness of the article, I am not sure how that can be remedied as these nicknames or sobriquets are cited and I couldn't find other available sources stating why these nicknames were given to the subject. There is actually a primary source book (written by his wife) that could potentially provide insight, but I'm not sure if using this as a source is acceptable enough for Wikipedia. Besides I don't have access to this book either. —seav (talk) 12:08, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Seav, okay, you don't have info about who gave these nicknames, but the sources already cited in the article do say they were given because of his tendency to go to out-of-the-way places to perform, and that isn't in the article. Having that context would certainly reduce some of the appearance of puffery, and is easy to cite from the sources you already have. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 12:11, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Premeditated Chaos, I updated the article in line with your suggestion. —seav (talk) 02:24, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Chromakopia

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• ... that the physical version of Chromakopia contains an extra song?

• Source: https://www.billboard.com/music/rb-hip-hop/playboi-carti-tyler-the-creator-chromakopia-vinyl-edition-1235814610/

... that Tyler's album-related truck could be seen in Tyler?

• Source: https://www.ketk.com/news/local-news/trucks-promoting-new-tyler-the-creator-album-spotted-in-tyler/

5x expanded by MontanaMako (talk).

• Reviewed:

Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

MontanaMako (talk) 21:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC).

• Would suggest that new hooks be proposed. The current hook is unlikely to be perceived as interesting by non-specialist readers, as it lacks context regarding the subject and in particular why a reader should be interested in it. Plus, digital and physical versions being different is not unheard of anyway, so it's not even that unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5; just added a new one. Is it any better? MontanaMako (talk) 16:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Will leave the decision to another reviewer, but it's better than the original. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 18:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

New reviewer needed. Z1720 (talk) 15:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• @MontanaMako: Page is new enough and long enugh, nominator QPQ exempt, hook fact checks out. I can't approve yet, as I need a citation on Music critics characterized Chromakopia as an early midlife crisis album revolving around the concerns young adults have over their newfound adulthood. Its protagonist, St. Chroma, is introduced on the opening track of the same name. ALT1 is the only way this gets done possibly with a different wording (as an option): Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

ALT1a: ... that trucks in Tyler promoted Tyler's latest album?

Placing a DYK? icon to indicate that a review has been done. Flibirigit (talk) 06:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on October 31

Gifted (2022 novella)

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• ... that in 2022, all five book nominations for the Akutagawa Prize were written by women, including former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki, who wrote Gifted after her own experiences?

• Source: (Translated from Japanese to English)

Suzuki Suzumi, whose book "Gifted" (Bungeishunju) was nominated for the 167th Akutagawa Prize, says that while her unexpected background has attracted attention, it has also led to prejudice and labelling.

For the first time in history, only female writers have been nominated for the 167th Akutagawa Prize, which will be announced on July 20th. Among them, Suzuki Suzumi, who was nominated for "Gifted," made her AV debut while studying at Keio University. After that, she worked for a newspaper company and graduated from the University of Tokyo, and is now active as a writer and columnist, which has attracted attention for her unusual career.

Source: Oricon News (https://www.oricon.co.jp/special/59840/)

• • ALT1: ... that former adult film actress Suzumi Suzuki pivoted to writing literature in 2022 with her novel, Gifted, which became one of five books nominated for the Akutagawa Prize that year? Source: Same as first source
  • Reviewed:

Created by Phibeatrice (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Phibeatrice (talk) 00:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC).

• If anything, the fact that the writer of the novel is a former adult film actress is the interesting part here, not the award (which not all readers may recognize, even if it's prestigious). Suggesting a far simpler hook:

ALT3 ... that the 2022 novel Gifted was written by a former adult film actress?

Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

• Interesting to whom? I much prefer the longer hooks which give more information. "former actress writes book" is not very interesting. "former actress writes book nominated for major prize" has more to offer. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 19:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT4 ... that former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki's book Gifted was nominated for the Akutagawa Prize in 2022? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

@Mary Mark Ockerbloom: WP:DYKTRIM is the relevant guideline. Oftentimes, but not always, the shortest and simplest hooks are the best. There are times when hooks do need additional context, but generally speaking, we tend to target the widest audience possible with hooks that require the least amount of specialist information. The issue I have with the prize angle is that readers may not know that it is a prestigious award or even be familiar with it, making the angle less accessible. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Presumably then, they will have an added incentive to click through and find out. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Numerous ALT hooks have been proposed: a reviewer is needed to ensure that they and this article are approved. Z1720 (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

Details Cannot Body Wants

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Singapore's first R-rated play was performed despite the police finding it "offensive"?

• Source: https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/digitised/article/straitstimes19920909-1.2.63.3.1

• Reviewed:
• Comment: The article mentions the Public Entertainment Licensing Unit, which is part of the Singapore Police Force. Source: https://www.police.gov.sg/e-Services/Police-Licences/Public-Entertainment-Licence

Created by Imbluey2 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Imbluey2. Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 06:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Imbluey2: Article is new enough. Hook is interesting. I made a few minor copyedits to the article. The article doesn't actually say anything about how the police were involved, so that should be added. The reader will be looking for the police connection. Also, the copyvio detector is at violation possible 49.5% with one of the sources, so some of the stuff highlighted in red there will need to be revised first. Just one more minor thing, I don't think Singapore needs to be bolded in the hook. I think it looks better as "that Singapore's first R-rated play was performed despite the police finding it "offensive"?" Nice work on the article! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:00, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

The nominator hasn't edited in a few days and didn't respond to the above. Asking if fellow Singaporean DYK regulars Kingoflettuce or ZKang123 can help out. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:38, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 1

Tel al-Sultan attack

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that American missiles were used to bomb a displacement camp in Rafah?

• Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/29/world/middleeast/israel-us-rafah-bombs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/world/europe/carnage-and-contradiction-examining-a-deadly-strike-in-rafah.html

• Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by Personisinsterest (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Personisinsterest (talk) 12:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC).

• I'd like to propose some alternative hooks, if that's okay:

  • ALT1: ... that the "Kuwaiti Peace" tent camp, struck by Israeli fighter jets, was located only 200 meters from the largest UNRWA humanitarian aid storage warehouse in the Gaza Strip? Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hamas-rockets-central-israel-gaza-strip-sirens/
  • ALT2:... that a viral image showing tents in Rafah arranged to spell "All Eyes on Rafah" called for global attention to the humanitarian crisis following the Tel al-Sultan attack? Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/29/world/middleeast/all-eyes-on-rafah.html
  • ALT3: ... that the Tel al-Sultan attack was the deadliest incident of the Rafah offensive? Source: https://www.axios.com/2024/05/27/rafah-tent-camp-strike-biden-israel-red-line

Smallangryplanet (talk) 09:24, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

As a DYK, I would prefer either ALT1 or ALT3 as a better alternative to the suggested DYK, simply because, in warfare, all sides make use of weapons supplied to them by other countries, and sometimes innocent lives are taken away inadvertently by these weapons. Furthermore, the article goes on to suggest that there was in proximity to the camp a weapons' storage facility.Davidbena (talk) 08:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Full review needed. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Dune (Kenshi Yonezu song)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that the 2017 Vocaloid song "Dune" composed by Kenshi Yonezu has a music video that was viewed over one million times over the span of less than a week on the Japanese video-sharing site NicoNico?

• Source: https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/kenshi-yonezu-hachi-new-video-dune-hatsune-miku-watch-7950146/

• ALT1: ... that the 2017 Vocaloid song "Dune" written by Kenshi Yonezu for Hatsune Miku's 10th anniversary features lyrics about the demise of life? Source: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2017/10/31/music/kenshi-yonezu-hopes-fireworks-new-album-bootleg/
• ALT2: ... that the 2017 Vocaloid song "Dune" worked by Kenshi Yonezu is much slower compared to many other Vocaloid songs, at only 95 BPM? Source: https://natalie.mu/music/pp/hachi_ryo/page/3
• ALT3: ... that the 2017 Vocaloid song "Dune" by Kenshi Yonezu describes what he considers the "desert-like atmosphere" that existed in Nico Nico at the time? Source: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/culture/2017/10/31/music/kenshi-yonezu-hopes-fireworks-new-album-bootleg/
• ALT4: ... that the 2017 Vocaloid song "Dune" worked by Kenshi Yonezu is much slower compared to many other Vocaloid songs, at only 95 BPM instead of the usual 180 BPM or 200 BPM? Source: https://natalie.mu/music/pp/hachi_ryo/page/3
• ALT5: ... that the 2017 song "Dune" worked by Kenshi Yonezu was performed by the sound synthesis software Vocaloid, but yet he himself has performed the song? Source: https://natalie.mu/music/news/241732
• Reviewed:

Created by Tokisaki Kurumi (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 09:19, 1 November 2024 (UTC).

• Hook is interesting and true,

I made a small copy edit but beyond that the content is fine, earwig has less then 10% overlap. QPQ not need congrats on your first DYK! Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 21:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@OlifanofmrTennant: Thanks! But it seems the DYK template not working well? ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 18:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Tokisaki Kurumi, OlifanofmrTennant, and Crisco 1492: Pulled per WT:DYK on WP:DYKFICTION grounds; as neither ALT0 or ALT2 meet WP:DYKINT (something's going to be slowest and there's no way that it's unusual for a music video to score that many views), new hook needed.--Launchballer 15:19, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Not sure I agree with DYKFICTION in this instance, as it specifies that this was for her tenth anniversary, but alright.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 15:26, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: Well, I really didn't realize that 1 million wasn't that noteworthy, so how about something similar to "its music video was the fastest original Vocaloid music video to reach a million views on Niconico at the time"? Or something related to the fact that the author has a personal feeling about Niconico, such as "feeling the desert-like atmosphere of Niconico and it's so much different from before, so he composed this song"? (Note these hooks are not polished yet) ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 19:51, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

I added ALT3 and ALT4 (With the ALT2 mod, I think the BPM is actually an interesting point, since other music tends to have 180BPM to 200BPM then) according to the community reponses. @DYK admins: I'm not familiar with the DYK process, can I trouble one of you to help review it (both content and process)? ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 18:31, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: for comment. TSventon (talk) 11:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

The speed hooks rely on knowing what BPM is. The problem with running a hook about the song's subject matter is that he could conceivably have written it about anything, which I would argue goes against the spirit of WP:DYKFICTION.--Launchballer 13:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

What about the other hook? ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 15:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

What other hook? I've assessed ALTs 2, 3, and 4.--Launchballer 15:49, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Oops, I thought those texts following were commenting on BPM. ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 17:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: I thought about it for a while, and then I did come up with another rather interesting (at least to me) hook again. Please check! ときさき くるみ ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 10:17, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:DYKINT, hooks need to be "likely to be perceived as unusual or intriguing by readers with no special knowledge or interest in the topic". What ALT5 ultimately boils down to is 'guy sings own song', which is uneventful.--Launchballer 15:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

• This was pulled from prep by Launchballer, but not retranscluded nor the initial tick superseded, so I'm doing both of those things. Where does this nomination stand at the moment? BlueMoonset (talk) 22:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

This needs a new hook.--Launchballer 02:28, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 2

Naz Arıcı

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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* ... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı started ice skating from scratch at the age of 29?

• Source: "İkiz gibi büyüdüğü arkadaşı ölünce kararını verdi! 29 yaşında başladı, 5 kez şampiyon oldu", "29 yaşında sıfırdan başladığı buz pateninde 32 yaşında yetişkinler artistik buz pateni dünya şampiyonu oldu." [4]

• ALT1: ... that electrical/electronics engineer Naz Arıcı quit her profession at the age of 34 to devote herself to competitions of adult figure skating she started when she was 29? Source: "... Naz Arıcı,“İlk şampiyonluğumdan sonra 2016 da katılacağım yarışma için işimi bıraktım ..." [5]", "29 yaşında sıfırdan başladığı buz pateninde 32 yaşında yetişkinler artistik buz pateni dünya şampiyonu oldu." [6]
• ALT2: ... that Naz Arıcı paved the way to the establishment of the adult figure skating branch in Turkey in 2016? Source: " Yetişkinler dalını 2015 yılında dünyada aldığı ilk şampiyonlukla (15 ülkeden 38 kişinin katıldığı Naz’ın ilk yarışması) Türkiye’ye getirdi ve 2016 yılında ülkemize yeni bir dalın açılmasını sağladı." [7]
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Arthur France

Created by CeeGee (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 223 past nominations.

CeeGee 11:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral: - n
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - AGF

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - n

QPQ: Done.

Overall: I was excited to see this bio at DYK, since I work on figure skating articles, too, and I value creating and improving fs articles, especially ones about women skaters. Such a beautiful story about adult figure skating in Turkey. However and unfortunately, I don't think that this bio is ready for the main page. The bio uses, for example, overly promotional and puffery language, such as most of the third paragraph in the "Early life" section. Much of the prose also suffers from awkward wording in English as well. The hooks for this DYK suffers from similar issues; all hooks are worded awkwardly. It's awkward in English, for example, to state that one starts something from scratch. Rather, it should read something like this: ALT3:... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı, with no previous experience, first learned how to figure skate the age of 29? Since I don't know Turkish and depend entirely on Google Translate, I'm AGF that the sources are accurately cited and worded and that there's no plagiarism. I think that if you worked on the article's prose, improving the hooks would be an easy fix. Please understand that I'm not being disrespectful, but I'm coming from a place of valuing the sport of figure skating on WP. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks a lot for your review and comment. I copyedited the article a little and replaced the original hook with following:CeeGee 05:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT3: ... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı, with no previous experience, first learned how to figure skate at the age of 29?

Eastern Venus

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• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Eastern Venus at Kobe

• ... that on the ship Eastern Venus (pictured), the "Modern" suite is not in modern style?

• Source: https://www.cruisemapper.com/ships/Eastern-Venus-783

"The largest cabins onboard Pacific Venus are 4 Royal Suites (65 m2) located behind the bridge, named "Archaic" (1001), "Modern" (1002), "Elegant" (1003), "Noble" (1004). They are decorated in two styles, with "Modern" and "Archaic" in traditional Japanese style, "Noble" and "Elegant" being more contemporary."

• • Reviewed:

Created by Memer15151 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

UserMemer (chat) Tribs 21:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC).

• A fairly interesting and well-written article that is both new and long enough. However, I have serious reservations about its sourcing. photoguide.jp or scheepvaartwest.be or cruisewonderland.tiyogami don't strike me as the most reliable, and this article is wholly dependent on such sources. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I have removed the aforementioned self-published sources and found better citations; all unsupported claims were removed. In addition, I removed "Castles of the Seas" as it is obviously self-published too. UserMemer (chat) Tribs 22:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@Kingoflettuce: Please address the above.--Launchballer 02:47, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for the late response! It looks better, although a lot of the material still hinges on primary sources like VesselFinder. Apart from Cruise Industry News, do we have more reliable "third-party" coverage? At the same time, I'm not sure how picky one ought to be with cruise-related articles, so I think I could pass this if there really isn't anything else. Best, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:09, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 4

Peanut (squirrel)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that a squirrel once helped its owner's OnlyFans account make $800,000 in a month? Source: https://telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/11/07/pnut-squirrel-became-harbinger-donald-trump-return/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Moses da Rieti
  • Comment: Drive-by nom, this was way too good a hook to pass up. I'll clean this up in the morning.

Created by Thriley (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 256 past nominations.

Launchballer 22:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC).

• Note to the reviewer: the article is currently on the Recent deaths section of ITN, but as the disqualification only applies to bolded links in blurbs and not to RD entries, the article remains eligible for DYK. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:16, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT1... that the death of a squirrel named Peanut was a Republican rallying cry in the last days before the 2024 United States presidential election? Source: Washington Post Thriley (talk) 20:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Grammar! "a" squirrel Johnbod (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT2... that Peanut the squirrel was taken from his home by New York State and euthanized soon after? Johnbod (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Oh, that squirrel... I followed this when it was at ITN and in the pre-election hullaballoo. Article is new enough and long enough. Hook facts are all cited and interesting, though my preference is for ALT0. Earwig flags a fair bit, but they seem to be properly attributed quotes. Good to go.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• I'd appreciate it if the alt1 hook runs. Far more consequential than making money for the owner. It was the hook I was going to use as the article creator before this drive by nomination was made. Thriley (talk) 21:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Maybe it's me being tired of American politics, but going with a politics-related angle feels cheap at this point. It's like all those previous hooks about COVID: just because a hook is about COVID or US politics does not automatically make it interesting, especially when there's oversaturation both on and off-Wikipedia. Endorsing ALT0 instead as more likely to get readership interest, especially to those not interested in politics. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

• Due to concerns raised at WT:DYK, the nomination has been pulled for now. Consensus is leaning against ALT1 (the promoted hook); however, a concern has been raised that ALT0 (the hook consensus was leaning in favor of) may not be accurate or supported, and thus may need revision. The discussion did not discuss ALT2. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

My bad, I changed the Express Tribune and New York Post with the Telegraph and misread it. The sentence now ends with just the Express Tribune. Should be supported now.--Launchballer 23:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I don't think ignoring a citation to an in-depth article from a reliable source and instead using a four paragraph summary of a NYPost article from a random Pakistani newspaper which doesn't actually reflect the source just for the sake of a DYK hook is what editors should be doing. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I skimmed WP:RSN for "Express Tribune" and saw nothing of concern nor any indication in the article it came from the New York Post, but I've put the Telegraph back. Hmm, "helped steer viewers to its owner's OnlyFans account", cited to Vanity Fair...--Launchballer 16:22, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, I've been out of it the last few days. ALT3: ... that a squirrel helped steer viewers to its owner's OnlyFans account?--Launchballer 15:33, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Clifton House School, Harold Styan

( Comment or view )

( Article history links:

• Clifton House School
• Harold Styan

)

• ... that sports teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School was a gymnast who played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? (155 characters)

• Source: Harrogate People and Places and Clifton House School Old Boys' Tales

• ALT1: ... that gym teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School was awarded the Order of the British Empire for services to youth, but as an old man he knocked out two lads who attacked him? (180 characters) Source: The London Gazette and as ALT0
• Reviewed: Bunt sind schon die Wälder and Helen Chaman Lall
• Comment: Clifton House School was moved to mainspace by me on 4 November 2024. Harold Styan was moved to mainspace on my behalf by admin Keith D on 18 November 2024, because my pagemover rights did not permit me to override a redirect page.

Created by Storye book (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 110 past nominations.

Storye book (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC).

• I'm not yet sure if I will give this a full review, so I'll just leave this as a comment for now. Although the angle provided meets DYKINT, I have reservations if it meets the guidelines. For one, both hooks may need a trimming (it might be better to focus on the "two attackers were knocked out" angle alone without mentioning the gymnast or music hall clauses). More importantly, I'm not sure if the hooks as currently written meet WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE, specifically the part about avoiding writing hooks where the bolded article is only tangentially related to the main hook fact (the hooks seem to be more about Styan than the school itself). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• ALT0 is 155 characters. According to the link you provided about trimming, it is ideal length.
• ALT1 is 180 characters. Being 180 characters is not a trimming issue by itself.
• Styan was a big part of that school, as can be seen in the article. There is plenty of material about him in the article, because he was a big presence there. If our readers click on the bold link, they will read more about Styan there than anywhere else online. Therefore he is relevant to the hook.
• Meanwhile I'll go and find an extra hook or two, anyway. Storye book (talk) 10:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
• ALT2: ... Clifton House School formed a scout pack which received an award from Lord Baden Powell for "best pack the United Kingdom"? Source: Neesam, Malcolm (26 February 1999). "Lord Baden Powell on the Stray". Harrogate Advertiser and Weekly List of the Visitors. p. 7 col.4. Retrieved 30 October 2024 – via British Newspaper Archive. "Lord Baden Powell was in Harrogate for the special purpose of presenting Peter's Pole to the Clifton House School Pack, which had won the award of best pack in the United Kingdom, an exceptional commendation".
• ALT0a: ... that sports teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above
• ALT0b: ... that Clifton House School's sports teacher Harold Styan played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above Storye book (talk) 11:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

One issue is that, while not an official rule or guidelines, it is usually discouraged to mention people without articles by name in hooks. I'm not sure how strict that practice is, but it's been brought up many times in the past. In any case, it might be necessary to remove Styan's name from the hooks. As for the trimming part, the wording I had was something like "... that a Clifton House School sports teacher knocked out two attackers in his old age?", which is more straightforward. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't think your suggestion is appropriate, because this was an expensive private school, and Styan had the Order of the British Empire for his youth work. In other words, he was a hero and teacher, not a gangster. The hooks that I gave suggest that he was a complicated and interesting character, but your hook suggests that he might be just some kind of felon or that he ultimately developed dementia. If there is no specific rule against using his name, then I don't see why we should remove it. However I shall look at that section of the article and see whether there is enough there to make Styan into a separate article, then the hooks will have his name in lights, and this nom will be a double nom. Storye book (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Update. I am separating the two articles, but it will take a day or two. Thank you for your patience. Please note that the Harold Styan link is currently a redirect to Clifton House School. I shall correct that when I publish his article. Storye book (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

It's not a rule that's formally codified and thus not in the guidelines, but I remember it being discouraged before. I think Theleekycauldron might know about it. In any case, if the hook becomes a double nom then that particular issue becomes moot. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

see WP:DYKG#C1 theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure what you are referring to, Leeky, but the redirect is temporary on this page as explained above, and not intended for publication on the Main Page. I have nearly finished Styan's own page, and hope to publish today or tomorrow (when the redirect will resolve to a direct link). Thank you for your patience. Storye book (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

• Harold Styan now has his own article, so his name is now bolded in the hooks. Admin, please could we now have this as a double nom? BlueMoonset? Mandarax? Maile66? Thank you. (I shall shortly provide a QPQ for the Harold Styan article Update: second review done. See "reviewed" section above).Storye book (talk) 11:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
  • The second article has been integrated into the nomination template. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Thank you, Mandarax! Storye book (talk) 18:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

• Both articles are now ready for review. Storye book (talk) 11:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Pro-Fatimid conspiracy against Saladin

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that the members of an alleged conspiracy to overthrow Saladin and restore the Fatimid Caliphate are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?

• Source: summary of the entire article

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Piri Reis

Improved to Good Article status by Cplakidas (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 145 past nominations.

Constantine ✍ 19:27, 4 November 2024 (UTC).

• Comment: Not a review but the hook can be made better. Doesn't seem appealing enough but there's an underlying interest. All the best! _Regards, Aafi ^(talk) 18:14, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

@Cplakidas: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer and Aafi: what am I supposed to address? If there is any specific criticism or suggestion for improvement, I'll gladly consider it, but 'can be made better' or 'not appealing enough' is little to go on. The fact that Muslims would make common cause with the Crusaders, or with a sect known as 'Assassins' of all things, is IMO plenty interesting, especially compared to many other hooks I have encountered in DYK in the past. Constantine ✍ 17:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

as I said in my comment (not a review) but I do agree that the latter part "are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?" is pretty much interesting. The initial part didn't appeal to me and I dropped a comment. Up to you or a reviewer, to work on this. This wasn't a serious review but a simple suggestions that this could be worked upon. _Regards, Aafi ^(talk) 17:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Aafi for clarifying. How about ALT1 ... that the members of an abortive conspiracy to restore the Fatimid Caliphate are said to have asked the Order of Assassins for assistance in eliminating Saladin? Constantine ✍ 10:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

• Full review needed now that alt hook has been suggested. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:54, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 5

Oasis (Minecraft clone)

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• ... that Oasis has been described as a "haunted" version of Minecraft? Source:[8]
  • ALT1: ... that Oasis, a clone of Minecraft, runs using no code? Source:[9]
  • ALT2: ... that Oasis, a clone of Minecraft, is run entirely using artificial intelligence? Source:[10]
  • ALT3: ... that an AI-generated Minecraft clone has been described as an early glimpse at the future of video games? Source:[11]
  • Reviewed:

Created by Johnson524 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Loytra (talk) 13:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC).

• Comment The disambiguation is incorrect - if this is considered a video game, then per WP:NCVGDAB it should be (2024 video game) instead (since there is already a 2005 video game of the same name). That said, I am not sure I would consider it a video game, given that it does not work according to anything but dream logic, and is more of a vague approximation of a game. Therefore, (simulation) or (AI simulation) could be a better disambiguation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
  • If it's not clear exactly what Oasis is, then why would the disambiguation be considered incorrect? The software is most notable for being a clone of Minecraft, surely that should be mentioned in the title for clarity sake? Hell, half the time it's referred to as "AI Minecraft" rather than its actual name. Loytra (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
    • It is incorrect because "Minecraft clone" is overly specific and therefore goes against disambiguation guidelines. It is like using (black dog with long fur and floppy ears) instead of (dog). It must be made more broad, whether by calling it "video game" or "simulation". Furthermore, calling it a "clone" may in fact be incorrect. It is literally Minecraft, as played by interpreting the game through an AI, whereas "clone" is typically used to describe games that are similar to, but not identical to another. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
      • Most of the sources referenced in the article describe it as a "version of Minecraft" or simply "AI-generated Minecraft". It really isn't commonly referred to as "Oasis"; I don't think most people would recognise the software if it was under the title "Oasis (2024 video game)" or "Oasis (simulation)". Imo it has to have "Minecraft" in the title. I know naming conventions are pretty strict but I'd almost argue that this is an WP:IAR situation. Loytra (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
        • I can confidently say it's not an IAR situation. After looking at the sources more, I am convinced that (AI model) is the best DAB for this as it is first and foremost a model that can be "played" using a game interface. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
• Comment. I don't think arguing over the title should block this from DYK. Only truly egregiously wrong titles would cause that kind of problem, and the current title is clearly not that bad - as noted, the COMMONNAME is something like "AI Minecraft". (And I don't think the case is as open-and-shut as Zxc thinks it is, either.) Zxc, you should file a WP:RM and see what the community thinks IMO. SnowFire (talk) 19:21, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
  • I agree. Its now time to keep discussion in this template related to DYK reviews and any discussion about the name of this article, should take place via an RM and any discussion about improving this article should take place at the relevant talk page. Article titles are outside the scope of a DYK review. side note: sounds like I'm a forum moderator at this point JuniperChill (talk) 16:19, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

A reviewer is needed for this nomination. Z1720 (talk) 15:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - Forbes Sites is not a reliable source per past consensus; Decrypt Media seems a bit borderline, but regardless of reliability the link needs to not be directly to the CEO's article. Backdash seems to be a how-to website, so also in need of replacement. 80 Level seems to be a clickbait outlet for a jobs hiring platform.
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems: - See above on sourcing.

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - Forbes Sites cannot be used for the citation. ALT2 (sourced to BoingBoing) is acceptable.
• Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Sourcing needs serious work. Once resolved, ALT2 should be good to go. SounderBruce 02:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

You pinged me on my talk page @SounderBruce: but this is not my nomination, I just created the article. I can take over the nomination if you'd like @Loytra: but that'd be up to you. Johnson524 03:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Apologies, I didn't notice the separate byline here. SounderBruce 03:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@SounderBruce: Since the concerns were sourcing based and not hook based, I figured it'd be fine do finish them. Good catch on Forbes, it has been removed from the article. As an added bonus, while finding alternative sourcing for Forbes in the article, I stumbled across a few instances of copyediting-gone-wrong, where the correct sources citing some sentences were accidently removed and replaced with the wrong citation. Those instances have been corrected as well! The Decrypt Media link has been fixed, and some of the wording on the about page for 80 Level did seem pretty concerning, hinting at little editorial oversight, and has likewise been removed. I am a little hesitant to remove the Backdash source though, as it appears to be a website dedicated publishing gaming articles, does not claim to be a blog, and has credited authors. I really don't see what the issue is. Do you think this DYK can pass now? Cheers! Johnson524 04:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

• Just for clarification, has the title issue been resolved yet? It's not a DYK issue but it would be nice to get some clarity before it runs on the main page. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:49, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Some sourcing concerns still remain; it seems that some new ones were added. Maginative seems to not be suitable as a reliable source, while Cybernews has editorial standards and could pass for the non-controversial statements it is being used for. SounderBruce 02:03, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I was asking if there's been clarity regarding what the article's title should be. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:40, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Oh sorry for the late reply, I completely forgot to respond earlier 😅 Since nobody has raised concerns over the article's title recently, I believe the current title is suitable, also because while they are officially unrelated, the common name for Oasis by most sources covering it refer to it as 'AI Minecraft', 'Minecraft clone', or something along those lines. Because of this, I believe 'Minecraft' should stay in the title in some capacity, but please let me what you think! Also, @SounderBruce: the Maginative source has been removed, an editor other than myself added that recently. Can this nomination be passed now? Cheers! Johnson524 18:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Backdash is still a potentially unreliable source and I do think it needs to be replaced. SounderBruce 02:46, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I said earlier in the discussion that a little hesitant to remove the Backdash source though, as it appears to be a website dedicated publishing gaming articles, does not claim to be a blog, and has credited authors. I really don't see what the issue is. Can it be kept? Cheers! Johnson524 21:40, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Gohobi

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• ... that the Japanese band Gohobi describes themselves as having a tofu mentality? Source: [12] ("「自信がなくて何が悪い 男女混声豆腐メンタル五人組」")
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ivan Ivan (ice hockey)
  • Comment: Up to the reviewer if there should be quotes around "tofu mentality".

Created by Narutolovehinata5 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 109 past nominations.

Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC).

• @Narutolovehinata5:, Thanks for the article. This is a suggestion: could you expand the article slightly to give some idea of what it means to have a "tofu mentality"? For those of us who won't be able to read the original sources if we click through, the current Wikipedia article gives no explanation of the hook. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the sources regarding the band only use "tofu mentality" without further elaboration (other than it was a term they gave to themselves), so I can't really add more to the article without doing original research. Technically, in Japanese, the term "tofu mentality" means something similar to what English speakers would call a "snowflake", although the article uses a literal translation of "豆腐メンタル" rather than the translated version (which is probably still accurate since the literal meaning is correct in Japanese). The full explanation about what the term means would probably not work for the band's article since it would delve into original research or even WP:COAT, but that's the explanation for context. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

jp:豆腐メンタル maps to Snowflake (slang), so maybe a piped link to Snowflake (slang) in the hook would suffice?

have created redirect for tofu mentality, and updating hook below -Bogger (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT0A... that the Japanese band Gohobi describes themselves as having a tofu mentality? (same source) -Bogger (talk) 14:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

I actually think the link would distract from the main article and divert clicks, so linking in the hook might not be a good idea. Should be fine for the article, though. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

"tofu mentality" ..? -Bogger (talk) 09:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I mentioned in the original nomination comment that I'd leave it to the reviewer if "tofu mentality" should have quotes or not since I wasn't sure if they were necessary. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

• Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:59, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 7

Organization of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

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• ... that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is organized into centers descended from ones created in 1980, except for two founded in 1914 and in 1899?
  Sources: [13] [14] [15] [16]

• • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Maria Muntañola Cvetković
  • Comment: Since NIOSH is part of CDC, I have a COI and I request an experienced editor to check the article.

Moved to mainspace by John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 43 past nominations.

John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 00:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC).

• Not a review, but the hook as currently written doesn't seem to be very interesting. At the very least it doesn't seem to meet WP:DYKINT. Can different hooks be proposed here? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

@John P. Sadowski (NIOSH): Pinging for a response. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

• ALT1: ... that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was just one center until 1980?
  Source: [17]
  John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 02:16, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Bunt sind schon die Wälder

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J. F. Reichardt

• ... that the melody for the song "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) that Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) created in 1799 has remained popular? Source: [18]
  • Reviewed: David Hilchen

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 2124 past nominations.

Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC).

• I shall review this. Storye book (talk) 10:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Thank you for this interesting article. I would like to hear this one. A few comments:

• Earwig finds only quotations and proper names. No problem there.
• The hook citation (above) for ALT0 was not in the article, so I added it there. I also gave the article a very minor copyedit. That does not affect this DYK review.
• One issue: The citation given above for ALT0 does not confirm popularity. Popularity is mentioned in the name of the website, but not in the main text of the website. Also, the website name says (if I understand correctly) "popular and traditional lieder", so according to that, this piece could be in traditional style (which does not imply popularity). So I think we need to EITHER find another citation OR another hook. Storye book (talk) 11:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

@Storye book: Not really a fan of the proposed hook, since the context given does not seem to make it clear why it is important that it has remained popular, and the context of it remaining popular is not clear (what is intended by "remained popular"?). I was going to suggest a hook involving Schubert, but the meaning of "different setting" is not clear: does it mean he wrote another melody to the song, or that Reichardt's melody was later re-used by Schubert? If it's the latter then perhaps that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The wording I had in mind was something like "... that the melody of "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) was later used by Franz Schubert?", but I'm not sure if that was the intended context of the "Schubert wrote a different setting" part. That suggestion could probably still be worked on, I just threw it out here for brainstorming purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you - both - for thinking. I am open to rewording. Grammar: in German, "und" says that something is both, both traditional and popular", - if it was only one, German would use "oder". As you will have seen, there were multiple melodies, before and after, but this is the one in most publications, recorded, sung. Take Hannes Wader, a singer-songwriter himself: singing that old melody. (yt at the bottom) - Schubert wrote a different setting (= different melody + different piano), which didn't become popular, - note that only one of the uses mentioned has his version, - it remained for art singers and higher school education. What word would you choose instead of "popular" for: is the one that people know and sing? Schubert is really only a side note here, his setting didn't get popular in any sense, it's not Erlkönig. I didn't know he wrote a melody, but now he wrote 700 (as DYK once informed us). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Would it help to add that it was recorded among the "80 most popular Volkslieder" [19]. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

The new reference given by Gerda Arendt is satisfactory, and it explains the meaning of popularity in the article's context. Gerda, could you please give us an ALT1, and put the new sentence and citation in the article? Thank you. Storye book (talk) 08:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Storye bookYou mean a sentence about that collection? (In another nom, someone mentioned "promotional". Anyway, ref added, which supports "remained popular. Will search for more. As a little gift: a children's tv version ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I added two more indications of popularity, a 2011 poll and a 2017 collection. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT0a: ... that the Volkslied "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) has remained popular with the 1799 melody by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured)?

to avoid the impression that only the melody remained popular. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Gerda. The citation is now in the article, and I approve ALT0a, with image. Storye book (talk) 09:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

• Pulling this per this discussion. Jlwoodwa raised concerns that the hook was hard to understand. In addition, the hook at best probably borderline meets WP:DYKINT. Some possible alternative suggestions:

• ALT1 ... that "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" placed second in a 2011 poll by MDR on the most beautiful Volkslied?
• ALT1a ... that "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" placed second in a 2011 poll by MDR on the most beautiful German folk song?

Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

for ALT 1 or 1a, subject to Gerda Arendt's approval. Storye book (talk) 09:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry that I wrote so misleading. Not true. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: As far as I can see, you have not written anything misleading or untrue. Please explain? Thanks.

Regarding the word, "popular", in the discussion someone appeared confused by the word, presumably because they lived in a world so narrow that they did not know that "popular music" is a subsidiary meaning of "popular", which has for hundreds of years just meant that a lot of people liked something. Storye book (talk) 10:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

The poll had 20 suggestions without Herbstlied. IT was No. 2 of the additional ones. - Please word for me. A song with a 1799 tune is still popular. The song hast a longish title in German, which I thought was good to translate. The title could mean anything, so we have to say what it is if you ask me. As you will not have noticed the hook is a bit quirky because with a composed melody it's not what you'd expect a Volkslied to be. Why would we not credit the composer who won over Schubert in popularity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT2 ... that the folk-style melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" was composed long ago by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) and it is still liked by many?

ALT1b .... that radio listeners voted "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" second in their suggested list of the most beautiful German folk songs? (See Gerda's comment above, regarding this one). Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Third party required to approve ALT2 and/or ALT1b only. Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I think ALT1b would get us into trouble with ERRORS because it's more No. 22, and tough to explain with the 20 from the station. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

I really don't think ALT2 as currently written is going to work out. It's rather vague and basically says "did you know that this song written long ago is still popular?", which actually isn't all that uncommon. It would be like a hook saying "that the folk song "Yankee Doodle" from the 1700s remains popular?" I still think something about the poll would be the best option here, although if that really can't work out then either a completely different angle be suggested here, or the nomination be rejected for lack of a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

And I really don't think that slamming down the hopes of a nomination which bores you (and bores you alone, so far) is a constructive way to contribute. If this subject matter bores you, go and contribute to a nomination about your own favourite music, sport or whatever, and leave us to work productively on this one. Thank you.

Controversy about which tune is the "right" one for a favourite set of verses can be a powerful force, and can cause concerts to be spoiled or cancelled. For example, in the UK (and possibly Europe, I don't know), a favoured tune for Psalm 23 is Crimond. There are many competing tunes for it, including Brother James' Air, which allows more fancy choral settings. However, when some people (including me) hear that tune used instead of Crimond, they become very angry. There is nothing wrong with Brother James' Air, but Crimond is loved for sentimental reasons. I can assure you that the subject matter of ALT 2 is far from boring. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

ALT3 ... that the melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder", composed by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured), is still preferred by many, even though the famous Franz Schubert wrote a tune for it? (176 characters)

Third party approval still required for ALT2 and/or ALT3. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

We could go with some variation of ALT3 (we probably need to reject ALT2 however due to WP:DYKINT reasons). However, the issue with ALT3 is that it is not directly stated in the article or the source (there is nothing in the article that directly says that people prefer Recihardt's version, just that it exists and is popular while one by Schubert exists). If that could be addressed, ALT3 would be a suitable option.

As for the "bores me" aspect, for what it's worth, Gerda's nominations and hooks have long had a reputation among several DYK regulars (not just me) for failing to meet the interestingness criterion, so it's not just me who has raised concerns. Other editors such as 4meter4 and CurryTime7-24 (incidentally both also classical music experts) have also raised concerns about her nominations and hooks in the past. While one could argue that DYKINT is by its nature a subjective criterion, the fact that Gerda's reputation exists, along with how the current wording of DYKINT was a direct response to one of her nominations, can't be discounted. For what it's worth, I have no issue with classical music as a topic itself and there have been plenty of acceptable hooks about the field from Gerda and other editors like 4meter4 and CurryTime among others. The issue has usually been the hooks themselves, not the field. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: Are there any citations available, to support ALT3? Or is there any content in the existing citations, which could be added to the article in support of ALT3? Storye book (talk) 13:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: Broadly speaking, classical music is that European vocal and orchestral music composed mostly in the 17th and 18th centuries, the name being reflective of that era's interest in the classical arts, such as Palladian architecture. Classical music tends to be emotionally controlled, with certain formal rules. Then you get transitional composers such as Beethoven who take the mickey out of classical music and play with more emotional stuff. Full-blown 19th-century orchestral music, and music for trained singers at that time in Europe, is called Romantic music, partly because it breaks with the previous century's emotional control. So we are not dealing here on this nom with classical music. It is music from the Romantic era. The confusion arises from today's usage of the word, "classical", where it has come to mean "not pop music". That is to say, when used in that way, the word has little real meaning. Storye book (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

(ec) Packing for return trip. Will be about a day. Hate editing mobile. - Sorry, Schubert takes us too far away. The 2 melodies don't compare. Schubert's is an art song, with no chance to become popular. The composer of such a successful thing deserves mentioning by name, imho. - After edit conflict: indeed, Not classical, but POPULAR. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt, Storye book, and Narutolovehinata5: What is the status of this nomination?--Launchballer 02:31, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

It could use a reviewer who sees that it is noteworthy that this particular old song is still popular (while most others from the time arens't) and that it is due to a specific person's melody. Or first a person to word a better hook for that fact? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

ps: the concerns were archived: Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 203#Bunt sind schon die Wälder (nom). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:23, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Would rather recuse from commenting on this nomination further; however, I've struck ALT2 due to the vagueness I mentioned above. My final comment is that my concern about ALT3 being unsupported remains unresolved. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:17, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: As I understand it, the review of the article itself has been completed as a green tick, and has not been challenged. However the hooks are still under discussion. We need a third party reviewer to review the remaining hooks (as I write, ALT3 is the only remaining hook, although the struck hooks could be unstruck if considered interesting). Also, those who contributed to the article need to check that ALT3 is properly supported by citations in the article, then tell us whether we should keep, rewrite or strike ALT3. Storye book (talk) 10:10, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I can't see where ALT3 is in the article. Also, where is your reference for the sentence beginning "The first"?--Launchballer 15:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

I have reworded the sentence beginning "The first", and provided a citation.

ALT4 ... that the melody for the song "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) that Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) created is the one commonly used today? Storye book (talk) 09:55, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 8

Death of Milton King

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• ... that Caribbean dockworkers started some of the first multinational anti-apartheid protests in the wake of Milton King's death?

• Source: Source 1: Cobley, Alan Gregor (June 1992). "'Far from home': the origins and significance of the Afro‐Caribbean community in South Africa to 1930". Journal of Southern African Studies. 18 (2): 349–370. doi:10.1080/03057079208708318. Source 2: "West Indies Boycott South African Goods". Rand Daily Mail. Johannesburg, South Africa. October 10, 1951. p. 4.

• ALT1: ... that 5 percent of Barbados's entire population turned out to protest the death of Milton King while under Cape Town police officers' custody? Source: Source 1: "10,000 Joined Protest March". The Barbados Advocate. Bridgetown, Barbados. August 26, 1951. p. 12. Source 2: United Nations. 1951 Demographic Yearbook (PDF) (1951 ed.). New York: Statistical Office of the United Nations. p. 95. Retrieved 31 July 2024.
• ALT2: ... that a sailor standing up to police harassment led to some of the first multinational anti-apartheid protests? Source: Source 1: Cobley, Alan Gregor (June 1992). "'Far from home': the origins and significance of the Afro‐Caribbean community in South Africa to 1930". Journal of Southern African Studies. 18 (2): 349–370. doi:10.1080/03057079208708318. Source 2: "Policeman Charged in Death of Milton King". The Barbados Advocate. Bridgetown, Barbados. British United Press. June 15, 1951. p. 3.
• Reviewed:
• Comment: Apologies for being a tad delayed on nomination. My first GA. Very open to feedback on hooks, etc.

Improved to Good Article status by SunTunnels (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

SunTunnels (talk) 01:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC).

Canaanite ivory comb

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• Article history

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• ... that the Canaanite ivory comb that contains the earliest sentence in a phonetic alphabet was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?

• Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/09/science/ivory-comb-beard-lice.html

• Reviewed:
• Comment: An image would be excellent for this entry. The images are there in the internet but I have been unable to find a suitable one that can be uploaded to commons with proper licensing. Please help me find/upload a picture for this artifact.

Created by Raydann (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

❯❯❯ Raydann^(Talk) 20:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC).

• Comment: So, between 2004 and 2010 or so, I did a lot of reading about artifacts like this. It turns out that it is extremely common for items like this to be set aside for years, decades, perhaps even a century or more, before someone comes along and decides to give them a second look. I only bring this up because while I like your hook, I could see others objecting to it as mundane. Viriditas (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)

While I get the point of the hook, it's a bit hard to read. Maybe something along the lines of:

ALT1 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb contains the earliest-known sentence in a phonetic alphabet?

ALT2 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?

Basically, splitting the original hook into two separate hooks. ALT2 lacks context, but arguably it might encourage a reader to click and learn why it was an important discovery. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

 Reviewing... Flibirigit (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - ?
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: The article was created on November 8, and nominated the next day for DYK. The length is adequate and the article is neutral in tone. Sourcing needs a bit of work. Please see where citation needed tags were added. I found no plagiarism concerns despite that Earwig highlights directly attributed quotes and titles of works. I have struck ALT0 and ALT2 since it is common for the importance of many artifacts to be known much later on. ALT1 is an interesting hook to a broad audience, mentioned in the article, and verified by the source. I remain open to considered other hooks proposed. There is no image used in this nomination, and the image in the article is freely licensed on the Commons. The QPQ is not required for this nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 03:27, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Jim Rivaldo

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• Article history

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• ... that Jim Rivaldo consulted political campaigns for Harvey Milk in the 1970s and Kamala Harris in 2003?

• Source: [20] Politics was as much a passion as a job for Jim Rivaldo, a veteran San Francisco political consultant who worked campaigns for candidates ranging from Harvey Milk and Ella Hill Hutch to Supervisor Bevin Dufty and District Attorney Kamala Harris.

• ALT1: ... that gay political consultant Jim Rivaldo "used to think that all gay people were hairdressers"? Source: [21] “I used to think that all gay people were hairdressers,” Rivaldo said.
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Robot Alley

Moved to mainspace by Vigilantcosmicpenguin (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 20 past nominations.

— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC).

• "Consulted for" or "on", surely? Johnbod (talk) 04:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

• The article is a new creation, and is long enough and adequately source. I did not find any close paraphrasing. However, the provided QPQ is an incomplete review as it was a quickfail that only checked some of the DYK criteria. A full QPQ has to be provided for the nomination to proceed: due to the new rules regarding immediate QPQs, it would be ideal for a full review to be done promptly to replace the provided QPQ.

Among the two hooks, the second hook seems more interesting, especially for non-politics buffs. It is cited inline and verified. However, I do have some reservations regarding the hook, particularly if it might be considered offensive to LGBT readers and editors if the hook as currently written runs. I'm unsure if the hook as currently written is fine, or if will need to be reworded, but for now, my preference would be to go with some variation of it. In addition, other hook suggestions can also be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:12, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5:I have done a new QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/Artificial intelligence rhetoric
I had the same concerns as you regarding my hook suggestions, so I will defer to the opinion of the promoter.— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:44, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

I also forgot to mention this in the review, but for DYK purposes, the footnote supporting the quote (the hairdresser one) needs to be repeated immediately after the quote, rather than just after the paragraph. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Done. — Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 19:41, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. To be on the safe side, I would suggest trying alternative wordings for ALT1 that could help make the context of the hook clearer and thus help avoid possible concerns about being offensive (maybe Theleekycauldron can help?), or maybe try additional angles different from the hairdresser one. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:59, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 9

The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness (Talmud)

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• Article history

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• ... that a Talmudic passage, "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness", is used in Jewish medical ethics to justify patient autonomy?

• Source: current footnote 12: Berger, Zackary; Cahan, Rabbi Joshua (2016). "Patient Autonomy in Talmudic Context: The Patient's "I Must Eat" on Yom Kippur in the Light of Contemporary Bioethics". Journal of Religion and Health. 55 (5): 1778–1785: "Here, we analyze a discussion in the Mishna, a foundational text of rabbinic Judaism, regarding patient autonomy in the setting of religiously mandated fasting, and commentaries in the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds, finding both a more expansive notion of such autonomy and a potential metaphysical grounding for it in the importance of patient self-knowledge."

• ALT1: ... that a Talmudic passage, "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness", has been used to justify a rabbinic law project by and for transgender Jews? Source: current fn #5: Soloman, Laynie; Pearce, Russell G. (2022). "'Nothing about Us without Us': Toward a Liberatory Heterodox Halakha". Touro L. Rev. 37: 1769–1836 – via HeinOnline: ""The heart alone knows its bitterness" is not simply a mantra about the essential power of individuals to dictate their medical needs when confronted with a disputing party. This statement, as we have seen, becomes an interpretive principle that we can utilize to articulate a truth at the center of a vision of a liberatory Heterodox halakha that attempts to center the needs, realities, experiences, and expertise of the community from which it emerges. (1830)... The approaches to Heterodox halakhathat we have described thus far are the ideologies that ground the Trans Halakha Project, a recent initiative that "aims to curate existing resources that have been developed for trans Jews and by trans Jews..." (1832)

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Elin Falk
• Comment: I'm very sorry, I lost track of the timing (because I put wrong creation date on my user page)! It's a few days over. But the hooks are short and clearly sourced, so hopefully easy to review.

Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 7 past nominations.

ProfGray (talk) 14:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC).

• Comment: That's fine, User:ProfGray, but please make a note to avoid this again. This is at least the second time you've missed the cutoff date and if you make it a habit, some editors are likely to decline in the future. I will compose a review. Viriditas (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• @ProfGray:

• The lead hardly summarizes the body.
• No quotes for "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" as the title?
• You alternate between the uppercase title "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" and the lowercase phrasing of "the heart knows its own bitterness" of the sugya and the proverb it refers to. That's three different references, and it must be really confusing for our readers. You probably need a dab header pointing to the Proverb as well. Figure out a way to make it clear that you are differentiating between the 1) principle 2) the sugya, and the 3) proverb.
• It is because the verse states: "The heart knows the bitterness of its soul" (Proverbs 14:10) Please link to Proverbs 14
• In a 2022 law review article, Laynie Soloman and Russell G. Pearce deploy The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness as one of two No quotes for "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness" here?
• While applying The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness for a Jewish ethics by a those outside the mainstream No quotes here?
• Citation 2: ""The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness". You've got two quotes in front of the title. This can be solved by using a single quote in the title field.
• gemara. You're using a different convention for Gemara than Wikipedia. Here, it is uppercase with no italics. You're doing the same for other words like Yoma, etc. Note: I see you are doing this for a specific reason, but that it isn't evident to most people, so perhaps add a footnote explaining the usage differences.
• Hence it is discussed in the 313rd mitzvah Per WP:EL, don't use an external link in the body of the article. Add the footnote.
• Jewish Medical Ethics. Add the pub date so we know the year like this: Jewish Medical Ethics (1959). I believe it is 1959, but you should verify.
• I added the link to the source in the hook. Please also add it to the article.
• Along these lines, Libson mentions the case of a rabbi (a Tosafist, Isaac ben Asher) who fasted to death in the medieval period, earning some recognition for piety as well as push back on the rabbinic acceptance of such conduct There's a great opportunity to add some interdenominational cross-referencing if the sources support it. Fasting to death was a thing in Asian Buddhism and was practiced to achieve self-mummification. Apparently, these bodies of monks who fasted to death are still in public view (China, Japan, Korea).
• Yes if a person says they need food, their view outweighs even 100 doctors who say they should fast. That's not encyclopedic style. Please rewrite that passage.

More in a bit. Viriditas (talk) 23:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed comments. And I'm sorry about the timing, not my strong suit, I'll try not to err again. I've made most of your suggested changes. (I know about Sallekhana but might seem like OR for me to refer to it, and the rabbinic case is more an exception than a comparable practice.) I see the inconsistency: should The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness generally be in title case with or without quotation marks? I revised the lead a bit but I think it covers much of the ground of the article, what do you sense should be added? ProfGray (talk) 18:17, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems: - WP:DYKCOMPLETE

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Exemption per WP:DYKNEW. Article is long enough; no problems found by Earwig except quotes. Hooks seem fine and sourced. My primary issue is with the article itself. Even though there are no maintenance tags, I think it indirectly fails WP:DYKCOMPLETE due to is tendency towards obscurantism from the style of writing, which I believe impacts the overall presentation. I realize this is not done on purpose. I recommend a complete rewrite. The current version lacks clarity and focus and is technical and dense. This problem could easily be remedied by removing all the quoted passages and reducing the topic to its bare simplicity for the general reader. Then, slowly add back in more advanced concepts and quotes as needed. I realize my review will be controversial, so after writing this, I will immediately request a second opinion. Viriditas (talk) 01:18, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, I've never been asked to do a complete rewrite before. It is true that the articles on the Talmud are going to get into some special terms, which have hyperlinks, and content (e.g., literary sources and legal issues). Perhaps you could mark which quotations should be removed and presumably paraphrased instead? Which paragraphs are too dense and require more clarity or clarification? Not sure that 'obscurantism' is a helpful feedback term, but I do appreciate your willingness to help me improve this. ProfGray (talk) 18:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

In terms of DYKCOMPLETE, I wonder if folks would glance at my other currently nominated articles on Talmudic topics, to check for similar concerns. Moses sees Rabbi Akiva (Menachot 29b), Sugya, Hefker. ProfGray (talk) 18:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I did that, and your other article on the list of older hooks needing to be reviewed didn’t appear so bad. For me, the issue here is, what if you pretend for a moment that you aren’t who you are, you’re someone who doesn’t know this subject and has no familiarity with it. Now read what you wrote with that pretend state of mind. It’s difficult to make sense of it. Like I said, work towards simplicity for the general reader and you should be fine. The easiest and simplest way to do this is to add all of the text, except for the quotes, to a sandbox page, and rewrite it. Once you've achieved a reasonable outline and structure that anyone can follow and understand, begin adding in your selected quotes if necessary. That should solve the entire problem. I will bow out of this and ask others to take over. Perhaps you will find someone who is sympathetic and will pass it. But I read it three times with the idea that I was new and a beginner and as someone who has never come across the subject before, and I couldn’t get very far. Try it yourself. Remember, we aren’t just writing for ourselves but a general audience. You’re not alone in this struggle, it’s something I keep running into in my own writing and I’m always having to make changes because I sometimes forget that I’m not the intended recipient. Viriditas (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 10

Jill, Duchess of Hamilton

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• Article history

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• ... that Jill, Duchess of Hamilton donated her body to science because "funerals are a bore"?

Source: [22]

• ALT1: ... that when asked about the proper form of address for a divorced duchess, Jill, Duchess of Hamilton replied, "I have absolutely no bloody idea, and please don't tell me"? Source: [23]
• ALT2: ... that in her PhD thesis Jill, Duchess of Hamilton uncovered how Christian women in Israel change churches to get a divorce–because Israel does not allow civil divorce? Source: [24]
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Marie Denizard

Created by Surtsicna (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 186 past nominations.

Surtsicna (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral: - I think consistently referring to Robertson as "the duchess", both in the title and throughout the article, despite her dislike for the title and her specific request for it to be removed from her byline, might cross the line of neutrality for me. Otherwise, it's all good.
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: The DYK submission itself looks good, I particularly like ALT0 and ALT1, and for the most part the article is quite good. But I can't help but feel like the use of the "duchess" title throughout the article and in the title crosses the line of non-neutrality, due to her explicit rejection of the title. This is really my main issue with it. Grnrchst (talk) 16:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Grnrchst, by the time she reached the height of her career she had not been called Robertson for over 30 years. She did not reject the title. She merely asked that it be removed from her byline. The Guardian, for example, gives her byline as "Jill Hamilton" but still calls her "duchess of Hamilton" in the description; the Catholic Herald just sticks with "Jill, Duchess of Hamilton". "Jill, Duchess of Hamilton" remains by far the most common name for her in reliable sources, including the obituaries cited in the article. I am not opposed to substituting some of the duchesses with "Hamilton", however. Surtsicna (talk) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

@Surtsicna: Thanks for the clarification. Per WP:COMMONNAME, I've struck my concerns about the title. I think "the duchess" could safely be replaced in most cases with personal pronouns (she/her), as there's not any ambiguity introduced that requires us to continue repeating who we're talking about. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

Planting a Rainbow

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• ... that the children's picture book Planting a Rainbow has a gardening theme? Source: pretty much any ref used, for example https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/lois-ehlert/planting-a-rainbow/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Głos Kolejarzy Ewakuowanych — Golos Evakuirovannykh Zheleznodorozhnikov
  • Comment: I could not think of a more interesting hook... feel free to suggest stuff.

Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 532 past nominations.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC).

• ALT1 ... that the children's picture book Planting a Rainbow has been praised for both its "deft use of colors" and the educational identification of seeds, bulbs, sprouts and blossoms? I don't have access to the source to confirm it, but this might be a possible alt. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
  • (responding to ping) Seems fine to me. Thanks. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 00:51, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Hold Your Hand (film)

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• ... that the film Hold Your Hand was based on the author's experiences after getting arrested in 2013?

• Source: [25] [26]

• Reviewed:

Created by Miminity (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Warm Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 10:11, 10 November 2024 (UTC).

• @Miminity: Not a review, but the hook fails WP:DYKHOOKBLP.--Launchballer 13:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: Unfortunately, the article itself is rather barebones and short (about half of the article consists of the plot summary), and there isn't any other material at the moment that could work as a hook. We could ask Miminity to expand the article further and see what can be done, or the nomination could be marked for closure for lack of a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:51, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

@Launchballer: The nominator has a message on his talk page that he will be busy until the 18th. Should we wait until then, or should we seek outside help in the meantime? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Fine by me.--Launchballer 12:35, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Berta Persson

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Berta Persson, aka "Buss-Berta" with her first bus, a Chevrolet for 14 passengers.

• ... that in 1927 Berta Persson became the first woman bus driver in Sweden and was nicknamed "Buss-Berta"?

• Source: https://www.skbl.se/en/article/BertaPersson

• Reviewed:

Created by MumphingSquirrel (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

MumphingSquirrel (talk) 19:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC).

• This article is new, long enough and written in a neutral tone. The sources cited look reliable, and all contain information that validates the story of Berta Persson. There are no copyvio issues, and no close paraphrasing. QPQ is not required. The image appears to satisfy DYK requirements (old, and public domain). The hook is clear, to the point and interesting, and verified in the sources cited; it is the most obvious hook for the page. Good to go. Thank you for a fascinating article! Chaiten1 (talk) 21:18, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for your kind words Chaiten1, still learning how to do DYKs, so appreciate the encouragement MumphingSquirrel (talk) 21:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

MumphingSquirrel, this appears to be close to a WP:ONESOURCE, and as such some passages are uncomfortably close to WP:CLOP territory. It would be better if more sources are found (there are surely some more available in Swedish). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 18:22, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Added some extra cites, another editor has kindly done some copy edits. Shout if it needs more attention, but my time may be short in the next few weeks to look at anything - this is the season of domestic duties. MumphingSquirrel (talk) 17:45, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 12

Alien: Romulus

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Sir Ian Holm in Edinburgh August 2004

• ... that Alien: Romulus (2024) starred Ian Holm (pictured) who had died four years earlier in 2020?

• Source: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240820-why-people-are-upset-about-the-surprise-cameo-in-alien-romulus

• ALT1: ... that Alien: Romulus (2024) starred an actor (pictured) who died in 2020? Source: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240820-why-people-are-upset-about-the-surprise-cameo-in-alien-romulus
• ALT2: ... that the decision to digitally include the late Ian Holm (pictured) in Alien: Romulus (2024) was described as "a disgraceful act of grave robbery or necromancy"? Source: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240820-why-people-are-upset-about-the-surprise-cameo-in-alien-romulus
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Walter G. Benz Jr.

Improved to Good Article status by Lankyant (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 6 past nominations.

Lankyant (talk) 03:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC).

• ** ALT3: ... that The Offspring in Alien: Romulus (2024) was played by a 2.31 m (7 ft 7 in) tall Romanian former basket player?Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2024/08/17/alien-romulus-spoilers-ending-plot/74766600007/

• Review: Article is long enough, hook is interesting, but the source (BBC) does not say that the film "starred" Ian Holm, but rather used a CGI image of him (this is also written in the article). Can we tweak the hook to reflect what the source exactly says? Ippantekina (talk) 04:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

• • ALT4... Did you know that in Alien Romulus (2024) the actor Ian Holm (pictured), who died in 2020, was 'resurrected' to appear in the film through a combination of animatronics, CGI and artificial intelligence. Lankyant (talk) 23:11, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 13

Austin Staats

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• Article history

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• ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats' contract was suspended after he bit another player's finger?

• Source: https://www.syracuse.com/sports/2021/06/former-occ-star-austin-staats-suspended-by-premier-lacrosse-league-after-off-field-altercation.html

• ALT1: ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats received a 7 game suspension for being a sore loser? Source: https://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/san-diego-player-gets-7-game-suspension-incident-19451876.php
• Reviewed:
• Comment: ALT1 might be too disparaging. Idk, happy to receive input.

Created by SammySpartan (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

SammySpartan (talk) 23:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC).

• I don't think either hook would meet WP:DYKBLP given their negative tone and their arguably undue focus. A different angle is needed here. Maybe:

ALT2 ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats works part-time as a firefighter?

I understand that it's actually common for professional lacrosse players to have other jobs, but that knowledge may not be common to most readers and thus may still be considered intriguing or unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

I guess as a lacrosse fan, what's notable to me about him has been his anger issues on and off the field, but I totally get the need to be neutral. ALT2 works for me. SammySpartan (talk) 17:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 15

Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik

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• ... that reading Hermann Weyl's Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik has been said to be like watching "a smiling figure on horseback" wielding "a swift bright sword"?

• Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/27854250

• ALT1: ... that in his book Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik, Hermann Weyl worried about a "crisis in quantum physics" that the discovery of antimatter would resolve? Source: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/weyl/
• Reviewed:

Created by XOR'easter (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

XOR'easter (talk) 00:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC).

Interesting textbook on fine sources, offline sources accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I find the original hook more interesting nut can't find "watching" in the source. How about taking it as in the article, and adding the year, because the topic changed much since:

ALT2: ... that J. A. Wheeler wrote of learning from Weyl's 1928 book Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik: "His style is that of a smiling figure on horseback, cutting a clean way through ... with a swift bright sword"?

I'd like an infobox, because the prose offers a lot of German before we even know it's a book, written when. A picture of the cover would also help. Storye book, could you do such a thing also? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:14, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Infobox done. I have just made a start on the infobox: you will need to change or add information in it. I have found an image; will add it shortly. Storye book (talk) 09:25, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

No objection to ALT2. XOR'easter (talk) 20:36, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

as I worded ALT2 I can't review it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:44, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Retelling

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• ... that retelling of classic tales is a common occurrence? Source: https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/publications/retelling-stories-across-time-and-cultures
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Kim Ju-ae

Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 533 past nominations.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Overall, the article meets all the criteria for warranting a DYK blurb, and QPQ has been satisfied, but I'm concerned that your proposed hook, in my opinion, doesn't seem that interesting or attention-grabbing. Do you think there's something else interesting you could bring up about retelling aside from how common it is? JJonahJackalope (talk) 21:15, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• @JJonahJackalope: Sure. How about: --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:31, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• ... that retelling of stories has led to emergence of, among others, feminist retellings focusing on previously marginalized or inexistent female characters?

Piotrus, that definitely sounds more interesting, though if I could make an edit to the phrasing, maybe something like:

• ... that the feminist retelling of stories can focus on previously nonexistent or marginalized female characters?

Let me know if this sounds good to you. JJonahJackalope (talk) 13:24, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• @JJonahJackalope: Yep, it does :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:33, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
• Great! I have no further concerns and will go ahead and approve that alt. JJonahJackalope (talk) 15:37, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• Returned from Q7 per this post at WP:ERRORS as both article and hook need further work. Gatoclass (talk) 22:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 16

GNX (album)

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• Article history

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• ... that Kendrick Lamar's album GNX was described as his "greatest work" by a critic after being surprise released?

• Source: Billboard, Variety (surprise release) and Stereogum (comment)

• ALT1: ... that on the GNX track "Reincarnated", Kendrick Lamar has a conversation with God? Source: The Line of Best Fit
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Gao Qifeng
• Comment: I seem to be about two hours late but hopefully that is excusable.

Created by Lk95 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 83 past nominations.

NØ 13:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC).

Marzēaḥ

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that an inscription from 243 AD for a leader of the marzēaḥ ends with blesses for his sons, the scribe, the person in charge of the cooking, the cupbearer and other assistants?

• Source: https://archive.org/details/archivesfromelep0000port

• ALT1: ... that the relationship between the marzēaḥ and veneration of the dead is still debated among scholars, due to sporadic literary evidence?

• Source: https://www.jstor.org/stable/23621930

— Preceding unsigned comment added by TNM101 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

• Reviewed:

Created by פעמי-עליון (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

TNM101 (chat) 07:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC).

• Working on this review Alan Islas (talk) 15:57, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

General eligibility:

• New enough:
• Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:

Image eligibility:

• Freely licensed:
• Used in article:
• Clear at 100px:

QPQ:
Review is incomplete - please fill in the "status" field

Articles created/expanded on November 17

Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani

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Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani

• ... that Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab's claimed photo circulated online is actually Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani?

• Source: https://www.fnoor.com/main/articles.aspx?article_no=25693

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani

Created by Faldi00 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Faldi00 (talk) 19:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC).

• ALT1... that the photo circulated online claimed to be of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1792) is actually Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani?

Same refs etc. Bit spicier. Johnbod (talk) 21:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)

I prefer this one. The sentence structure and lexicons are way better. Faldi00 (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Take it from a native speaker; they're not. But whatever. Johnbod (talk) 13:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

De Worsten van Babel

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• ... that The "Sausages"' first sausage was filled with 3 courses and an espresso? Source: https://visrecepten.nl/vijf-vragen-aan-hugo-kennis
  • ALT1: ... that The "Sausages of Babel" studied musical theatre and graphic design? Source: https://bron.fontys.nl/tv-kok-hugo-kennis-fontys-hardste-leerschool-ooit/ https://oldschool.rietveldacademie.nl/project/the-cave-at-amstel-41-saturday-8-june https://www.kabk.nl/alumni/bachelor-grafisch-ontwerpen/2011-2020 (2015)
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/MrBeast Lab

Moved to mainspace by Bogger (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 28 past nominations.

Bogger (talk) 00:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC).

Articles created/expanded on November 18

Raul Meza Jr.

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• ... that serial killer Raul Meza Jr. began using drugs at age eight?

• Source: https://www.kxan.com/investigations/in-depth-history-of-austins-accused-serial-killer-raul-meza/

• Reviewed:

Created by Swinub (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Swinub★ 04:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article meets all the relevant guidelines, hook is cited to a brand of MSNBC which is considered reliable by consensus. Hook is interesting, nice work! It is a wonderful world (talk) 22:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

• I have pulled the hook over WP:DYKBLP concerns. Regardless of the fact that he is primarily known for negative reasons, unduly focusing on a negative aspect about a living person violates the rule (it would be due to have a hook about his murders, but not about something he did as a kid and what he wasn't known for). A new hook will need to be proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:58, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 19

Jews in the Polish Army

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• ... that about 200,000 Polish Jews served in the Polish Army and related formations during World War II? Source: https://www.avotaynu.com/books/PolishOfficers.htm
  • ALT1: ... that before World War II, Jews in the Polish Army formed about a fifth of the Polish military medical services? Source: https://bip.ipn.gov.pl/download/4/11804/Zalaczniknr2doSIWZMakieta.pdf (p. 104 of the pdf IIRC)
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Qizil Tugh
  • Comment: While one could argue that some details from the body might be more interesting, they might also make the hook less neutral. But see ALT1 if you want something weirder.

Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 535 past nominations.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC).

German atrocities committed against prisoners of war during World War II

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• ... that during WW2 Germans committed numerous atrocities against prisoners of war? Source: pretty much any source, but see for example: Hébert, Valerie Geneviève (2021-02-12). Hitler's Generals on Trial: The Last War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg. University Press of Kansas. ISBN 978-0-7006-3267-1. 150–153
  • ALT1: ... that after World War II, during the Nuremberg High Command Trial, almost all of the German high commanders tried were found guilty of crimes against POWs? Source: a bit less generic; same source as above
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Christmas Invasion

Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 534 past nominations.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC).

• This is not a review, and given the topic this is far outside my comfort zone, I will the full review to another editor. However, the hook is kind of dull or at least obvious. Nazis doing atrocities to prisoners of war is kind of a "Well, duh" fact given their reputation. A completely different angle is probably needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
  • @4meter4 and AirshipJungleman29: Maybe one of you would have an idea for a more interesting hook? I think I reached my limit for thinking about this topic area for a while (although I am still trying to finish reading one or two sources I have...). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:28, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

2019 NFC Divisional Playoff game (Seattle–Green Bay)

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• ... that the Seattle Seahawks' loss to the Green Bay Packers in their 2019 Divisional Playoff game was their ninth straight to the Packers at Lambeau Field?

• Source: "Seahawks fans have plenty of bad memories of their favorite team's performances in Green Bay, with the losing streak at Lambeau Field now at nine straight games. The last such win for Seattle was on Nov. 1, 1999."

• Reviewed: Sehome, Bellingham, Washington

Moved to mainspace by Gonzo fan2007 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 51 past nominations.

« Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC).

Sun Haven (video game)

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• ... that players can marry the leader in Sun Haven?

• Source: https://www.escapistmagazine.com/all-sun-haven-marriage-candidates-romance-guide/#h-lucia

"Lucia is Sun Haven’s enthusiastic and magically gifted leader." and "To romance Sun Haven’s Lucia, opt for fiery and magical gifts."

• • ALT1: ... that players have unlimited energy in Sun Haven, unlike other farm sims? Source: https://www.ign.com/wikis/sun-haven/Tips_and_Tricks_for_Beginners "One of our favorite features in Sun Haven (or lack thereof) is a stamina system. You don't need to worry about passing out from exerting too much energy like you do in other farming games"
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Crimson Diamond
  • Comment: Coincidentally, the QPQ is also a video game. I've been waiting for this game on the Switch (even though I don't own one) and its finally due to release by end of month! It was all because of this video.

Moved to mainspace by JuniperChill (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.

JuniperChill (talk) 00:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC).

• Note: this may be suitable to run on 30 November, the day after the game is on the Switch as its scheduled to release on 29 Nov at 0700 PST (1500 UTC) according to this Reddit post, which was posted by one of the developers (see the username). I totally forgot about the special hook occasion and only just realised. If not, the 29th will do. JuniperChill (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
  • Also ALT0a: that players can marry Lucia, the leader of Sun Haven?
• Pretty well-written and interesting article. Both the length and citation quality are alright, however I am of the view that the proposed hooks might potentially be in violation of the rule that "If the subject of the hook is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must be focused on a real-world fact." (WP:DYKFICTION). Would be great if you could propose some other alternatives. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
  • @Kingoflettuce: Well, you can't marry the leaders of Stardew Valley, Coral Island and My Time at Portia/Sandrock so I was thinking SH is unique in this way. Plus, marrying is definitely a real-world fact so I only think ALT1 fails DYKFICTION (because you don't have unlimited stamina IRL) and have self-crossed it out, leaving ALT0/0a it is. JuniperChill (talk) 12:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I would disagree with saying that ALT0 definitely meets WP:DYKFICTION because it's about marriage and the concept of marriage is a real-life fact. Plenty of things that happen in real life, such as births, deaths, marriages, going to school, etc. happen in works of fiction. The real issue here based on WP:DYKFICTION is if ALT0 is to be interpreted as a game mechanic or as a plot point: if it's the former, it might meet the guideline, but if it's the latter, it may not. Game mechanics are among those edge cases where it's not clear if DYKFICTION is met or not. At the very least, a reword may be needed. If not, maybe a different angle is needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

I'll hope for the best for this one then. I think i've learnt that DYK hooks shouldn't talk about the game and talk about the real word associated with it. JuniperChill (talk) 08:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

ALT2: "that Sun Haven did not gain a lot of attention until full release in 2023?"

ALT3: "that only a few games combine farming RPG like Sun Haven does?"

Sources: https://www.thegamer.com/best-farming-games-ranked/ "This indie gem has flown under the radar for a surprisingly long time, not gaining much attention until it had its official 1.0 release in early 2023" and https://www.thegamer.com/sun-haven-worth-it/ "Few games blend farming RPG mechanics, casual slice-of-life interactions, and high fantasy styles like Sun Haven does" for ALT2 and 3 respectively

@Kingoflettuce: Pinging for a return to the nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:58, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 21

Renildo José dos Santos

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• ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was tragically murdered in 1993 after publicly declaring his bisexuality, and his murderers only started serving their sentences in 2015?

• Source: "Acusado de mandar matar vereador de Coqueiro seco se entrega à polícia". Alagoas (in Brazilian Portuguese). 2015-11-12. Retrieved 2024-11-27.

• ALT1: ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was murdered in 1993 after coming out as bisexual, and his legacy is honored with a human rights award in his name? Source: "Prêmio de Direitos Humanos Renildo José dos Santos acontece nesta terça em Maceió". Tribuna Hoje. Retrieved 2024-11-20.
• Reviewed:
• Comment: Despite its creation becoming almost seven days before today, it was expanded today.

Created by MikutoH (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

--MikutoH ^talk! 23:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC).

• Comment: The first hook and some statements in the article may not meet WP:NPOV. TheBritinator (talk) 01:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

@TheBritinator: it may not be. But is it? You didn't state your perspective in a concrete way. --MikutoH ^talk! 17:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I removed the apparent non-neutral POV~. Since it wasn't specified which part, now I think it's neutral. --MikutoH ^talk! 20:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

The hooks remain non-neutral and should be reworded. Full review would be left to TheBritinator or another editor:

ALT2 ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was murdered in 1993 after publicly coming out as bisexual? ("Tragically" is commentary that should be avoided per WP:WTW, the second seems to be commentary that might also not meet NPOV).

Tragic but sadly not uncommon, so I'm not sure if it's "unusual" enough to meet WP:DYKINT, so maybe other editor can chime in? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: I would say ALT2 is good. TheBritinator ([[User talk:TheBritin --MikutoH ^talk! 21:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)ator|talk]]) 16:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

I support ALT2 as well. --MikutoH ^talk! 21:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Doug Hamlin

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• ... that the National Rifle Association credited future CEO Doug Hamlin with saving the company $30 million as director of publications?

• Source: Parker, John (July 30, 2024). "NRA CEO & EVP Doug Hamlin Says 'Return On The Investment The Members Have Made In The NRA Is Undeniable'". NRA Shooting Sports USA. Retrieved November 20, 2024.

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nayib Bukele
• Comment: there's a much more interesting hook here, but DYKBLP and all that.

Moved to mainspace by Queen of Hearts (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 13 past nominations.

charlotte ^👸♥ 23:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC).

• If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, then for me it's interesting enough that they went after him for something that happened that long ago. I therefore propose ALT1 ... that after Doug Hamlin was appointed CEO of the NRA in May 2024, anonymous employees called for his suspension over something that happened in 1979? which I believe sidesteps the negative bit.--Launchballer 16:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 22

Sugya

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• ... that the composition of a sugya, or passage in the Babylonian Talmud, has multiple layers, with the latest edited with an anonymous voice?

• Source: "Separating the Tannaitic, Amoraic, and Stammaitic layers reveals that the rabbis employ increasingly abstract formulations and concepts in their legal science." Stammaitic = anonymous (same source). See: Rubenstein at https://www.ancientjewreview.com/read/2016/2/9/talmudicstories

• ALT1: ... that a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, may be read as folklore, philosophy, proto-feminist, or legal virtuosity? Source: Folklore -- Stein, Dina (2019). "Linguistic Liaisons: Wives and Vows in the Babylonian Talmud (BT Nedarim 66a-b)". Nashim: A Journal of Jewish Women's Studies & Gender Issues (35). Philosophy: Lévinas, Emmanuel; Aronowicz, Annette; Lévinas, Emmanuel (1990). Nine Talmudic readings. Bloomington: Indiana Univ. Press. ISBN 978-0-253-20876-7. Proto-feminist: Hauptman, Judith (1998). Rereading the rabbis: a woman's voice. Boulder, Colo.: Westview Press. ISBN 978-0-8133-3400-4. Conceptual "virtuosity: -- Moscovitz, Leib (2003). ""Designation is Significant": An Analysis of the Conceptual Sugya in bSan 47b–48b". AJS Review. 27 (2): 227–252. Let me know if quotes from sources would be helpful.
• ALT2: ... that anonymous editors may create a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, by rewording quotations by earlier rabbis? Source: Moscovitz, Leib. "'The Holy Blessed One Be He... Does Not Permit the Righteous to Stumble': Reflections on the Development of a Remarkable BT Theologoumenon." In Rubenstein, Jeffrey L., ed. Creation and Composition: the Contribution of the Bavli Redactors (Stammaim) to the Aggada. Mohr Sieback, 2005, p126 "Second, the anonymous BT redactors contributed to the Talmud by reformulating amoraic dicta, not just by adding to their statements." Friedman, Shamma (2005). "A Good Story Deserves Retelling – The Unfolding Of The Akiva Legend" in same book: see p.72 "anonymous voice in the sugyot... original and creative rather than simply preserving or transmitting"
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tony Pajaczkowski
• Comment: Open to suggestions with the hook, trying to avoid insider jargon. Also, please help with my faulty template use in the QPQ. Btw, "proto-feminist" isn't quite parallel structure.

Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 9 past nominations.

ProfGray (talk) 04:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC).

ILEA Educational Television Service

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• ... that a cable TV channel in the UK was still broadcasting primarily in black and white as late as 1979?

• Source: "Both the ULAVC and ILEA had converted into colour production by 1980, however, the now old GPO VHF cable network was only just capable of transmitting high quality colour (it was originally designed for analogue black and white in 1967)."

https://blogs.imperial.ac.uk/videoarchive/ilea-channel-7-network-1968-1979/

• • Reviewed:

Created by Nylix4488 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Nylix4488 (talk) 01:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC).

• I am not seeing the information about it being in black and white explicitly mentioned in the article or the provided quote. The article even mentions a test color broadcast, but not what happened after. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
  • @Nylix4488: Please respond to the above concerns. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the fix, but it still doesn't completely match the article. The article does not directly support the "still broadcasting primarily" wording, and indeed the article doesn't even directly state if there was still a black-and-white broadcast in 1979. Given that this is a TV station-related nomination and with how this has been stuck for a while, I'm asking Sammi Brie for help with the nomination and article. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:57, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

• I've actually heard of this thing, believe it or not. And I have indeed located a reference to this effect in The Times Educational Supplement. We are good on that front, but there is still a paragraph missing an ending citation, Nylix4488. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 24

Bitcoin buried in Newport landfill

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• ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin in a landfill site in 2013, and is now suing the council for £495 million?

• Source: https://www.thetimes.com/article/it-worker-offers-council-50m-to-let-him-search-tip-for-bitcoin-hard-drive-vw3fskg8v

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr0dyy152jo

• • ALT1: ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin in a landfill site in 2013, and is still trying to recover his missing fortune worth £495m? Source: https://www.thetimes.com/article/it-worker-offers-council-50m-to-let-him-search-tip-for-bitcoin-hard-drive-vw3fskg8v
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr0dyy152jo
  • ALT2: ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin worth £495m in a landfill site in 2013?
  • Reviewed:

Created by CommunityNotesContributor (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

CNC (talk) 17:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC).

Given that both hooks seem rather complicated, I wonder if we could just truncate both hooks at "2013", though the final decision could be left to the reviewer. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:55, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Have added ALT2 for a shorter version. I think the £495m needs referencing as 8,000 Bitcoin is a meaningless number/value to most people, unless this is the purpose of an intriguing and deliberately vague hook though? Not sure. Have amended link placement, but happy for reviewer to tweak and improve as needed. Hooks are not my strong suit, thanks. CNC (talk) 12:02, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 25

Frederick Warren Freer

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Frederick Warren Freer

• ... that Frederick Warren Freer (pictured) was referred to as "the painter of beautiful women’s faces"?

• Source: [27]

• ALT1: ... that Frederick Warren Freer (pictured) switched from studying medicine to art after going partially deaf? Source: [28]
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tim Hughes (soldier)

Moved to mainspace by Kimikel (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 26 past nominations.

Kimikel (talk) 17:31, 25 November 2024 (UTC).

• The article was moved to mainspace on time and a full QPQ has been performed. No close paraphrasing was found (the yellow result on Earwig is a false positive due to repeated mentions of institutions), and both hooks are cited inline and verified. Either hook can be used. The image is public domain so acceptable, but it is probably a bad fit for the Main Page owing to it not being that good quality (the eyes and facial features are not that good at that resolution). There's only one minor issue holding this back: ALT1 is supported by the source, but the current wording of the article does not suggest he studied medicine first before switching, but rather he studied art in lieu of medicine. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

• @Narutolovehinata5: Thank you for the review, as long as ALT0's okay I'm fine with striking out ALT1. Kimikel (talk) 16:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)

Actually, a reword to the article would suffice in fixing ALT1's issue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 26

Family Stress Model

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• ... that the Family Stress Model helps explain how economic hardship impacts children and adolescents through family-level processes like interpersonal conflict between caregivers and disrupted parenting?

• Source: "We consider the Family Stress Model (FSM) as a useful framework for understanding the family stress process and its potential impact on children’s lives. As illustrated in Figure 1, the FSM outlines a theoretical process by which economic hardships and pressures (Boxes 1 and 2) exacerbate child and adolescent maladjustment (Box 5) primarily through parents’ psychological distress (Box 3), interparental relationship problems (Box 4a), and disrupted parenting (Box 4b). Box 6 involves additional risk factors that may intensify and protective factors that may dampen the family stress process. Since proposed by Conger and his colleagues there have been at least three published reports that review systematically the extent of empirical support for the FSM." (Masarik & Conger, 2017; Stress and Child Development: A Review of the Family Stress Model, p. 85).

• Reviewed:

Moved to mainspace by MezLazYaz (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

MezLazYaz (talk) 23:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC).

Comment @MezLazYaz Not a review. The lead of the article needs work as it doesn't even acknowledge that the FSM is a theory. The very first sentence needs to define what the Family Stress Model is. The first seven words in the lead should/must say "The Family Stress Model is a theory..." You can talk about it growing out of something after you have given a succinct definition in the opening sentence. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section.4meter4 (talk) 15:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Alessandra Rojo de la Vega

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• ... that Alessandra Rojo de la Vega became the mayor of the Cuauhtémoc, Mexico City, after a gunshot attack, several vote recounts and accusations of gender violence?

• Source: https://elpais.com/mexico/2024-09-18/el-tribunal-electoral-federal-confirma-el-triunfo-de-alessandra-rojo-de-la-vega-en-la-alcaldia-cuauhtemoc.html

• Reviewed:

Created by Alan Islas (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

Alan Islas (talk) 15:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC).

• Comment-only, refer to WP:DYKHOOKBLP. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 05:17, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: Notwithstanding Tbhotch's comment, QPQ has yet to be done. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 11:20, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

Yvonne Francis-Gibson

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• ... that before she was women's minister of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Yvonne Francis-Gibson led a Women's Desk that was "unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues"? Source: Francis-Gibson served as Minister of State in the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Youth & Women’s Affairs + the head of the Women's Desk was Yvonne Francis-Gibson ... the Women's Desk appeared to be subject to the whims and fancies of the government, and was unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues.
  • ALT1: ... that before improving women's rights in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines as a legislator, Yvonne Francis-Gibson led a Women's Desk that was "unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues"? Source: she worked to change laws that discriminated against women in our society. Because of her efforts, female teachers in SVG now have the right to maternity leave, and married women may now file income tax returns separate from their husbands as persons in their own right, among other benefits. + ALT0's second ref
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Film Essay on the Euphrates Dam (two articles)

Moved to mainspace by Miraclepine (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 63 past nominations.

ミラP@Miraclepine 00:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC).

Articles created/expanded on November 27

Carlisle Chang

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• ... that Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, "possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean", was destroyed during an airport expansion?

• Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [29]

• ALT1: ... that "the most important work of art in the Caribbean", Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, was destroyed during an airport expansion? Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [30]
• ALT2: ... that Carlisle Chang helped design both the flag and the coat of arms of Trinidad and Tobago? Source: "Eventually, Chang got down to work, doing designs at night and submitting them on mornings to the Ministry of Home Affairs whose officials would eventually fly to London where the final designs had to be vetted and approved by Herald’s College. Chang disclosed that the Coat of Arms contains one key input from then premier, Dr Eric Williams, first prime minister of independent Trinidad and Tobago. “He wanted Tobago on the top of it, and that’s what he got. The palm tree on the top is Tobago.”
  For the flag, Chang opted for blocks of red, white and black with very precise dimensions. In an interview with Banyan he explained that he was “determined that a child should be able to draw it with a ruler.”" [31]
• Reviewed: pending

Moved to mainspace by Guettarda (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 37 past nominations.

Guettarda (talk) 04:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - n

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: - Not done
Overall: Taking on this review. Guettarda, the article is solid and well-sourced. All three hooks are interesting, but ALT0 and ALT1 refer to Chang's work as the most important of the Caribbean, which seems like a huge claim. It might be better to attribute this assertion to the sources in accordance with DYKDEFINITE. Earwig shows a 44.1% similarity to the sources, but I believe this is due to the numerous direct quotations. I performed a spotcheck on sources 1 and 3 and found no major issues, although source 1 notes that Chang's father actually originated from Canton, China, so you might consider adding this detail to the article. Also, there is a missing square bracket in the quotation "Tobago at the top of [the coat of arms" in the National symbols section. Please ping me once you have completed the QPQ and addressed the issues mentioned above. —Prince of Erebor（The Book of Mazarbul） 06:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@Prince of Erebor: Thanks so much. I completely forgot about the QPQs. I'll get to that and the other stuff ASAP - I'll ping you as soon as I'm done. I ran it through Earwig's myself and was surprised how high it was, but it was the quotes. Guettarda (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 28

Tema "Sacher"

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• ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" "a pathetic fragment which can only be explained by the desperate state of the composer's health at the the time"?

• Source: Music Reviews by Byron Adams

• ALT1: ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" a "truncated and barely coherent page [of music]" and "a pathetic fragment"? Source: Ibid
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sonya Friedman (opera), Template:Did you know nominations/Canticle V: The Death of Saint Narcissus

Created by CurryTime7-24 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 53 past nominations.

CurryTime7-24 (talk) 04:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC).

• Two minor issues. The first is that the citation gives page 369 as the source of the wuote. Unless I'm mistaken, that appears to be incorrect. The second issue is that the citation must be repeated at the end of the sentence from which the hook is derived, meaning you need both the first and second sentences of the critical reception section to have citations at the end for ALT1. Otherwise, I think we're good to go. ~ Pbritti (talk) 00:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on November 29

Ripken (dog)

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• ... that the dog Ripken wears a GoPro on his back while retrieving used bats and tees at major sporting events? (Source)
  • ALT1: ... that fans have booed off players who try to take the dog Ripken's job of retrieving used bats and tees at major sporting events? (Source) (Source)
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Horn of Plenty & Template:Did you know nominations/George Bogaars

Created by Johnson524 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 20 past nominations.

Johnson524 11:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - Concerns about the reliability and quality of sources used, especially for the hooks.
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems: - Article is tagged as needing a copyedit, and I agree. It reads way too informally at points.

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - The Manual (misspelled as The Manuel) used for ALT0 seems to be a clickbait-like website run by Digital Trends, which I would disqualify as a reliable source. InspireMore (used for ALT1) also seems to have journalistic standards and an editorial staff, but is very low quality; surely there's better sources out there?
• Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article need some work, especially in the sourcing department. ALT0 would be usable with some cleanup and a better source. SounderBruce 04:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

• @SounderBruce: Thank you for the review, and I'm sorry for submitting this article in such a poor state, I didn't realize how many things were wrong with it! I have removed The Manual source from the page, replaced the ALT0 source with a much better one from Golf Digest, and added a supporting source for ALT1. I'm really bad at copyediting, its something I wish I was better at, but I believe I've removed the worst of the informal wording from the page, so please feel free to tell me what other corrections I can do for the page. Thank you again, and cheers! Johnson524 18:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
  • @Johnson524: Went through and did a quick copyedit, but there are still major sourcing issues. SounderBruce 02:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @SounderBruce: Thank you for the further copyediting! Can you clarify what you mean by major sourcing concerns? I've removed the InspireMore source if that's what you meant, but your concern sounded plural. Cheers! Johnson524 03:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Debra Toporowski

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• ... that Debra Toporowski served simultaneously on the Cowichan Tribes council, on the North Cowichan council, and as acting mayor, before being elected to the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia?

• Source: "A member of Cowichan Tribes, Toporowski is a two-term elected councillor in the municipality of North Cowichan and a five-time councillor of Cowichan Tribes, the first elected woman to hold positions on two councils at the same time." Barron, Robert (4 November 2024). "Toporowski resigns from her council seat in North Cowichan". Lake Cowichan Gazette. Retrieved 29 November 2024.
  "Toporowski was first elected to North Cowichan council in 2018 and again in 2022. She currently serves as acting mayor. She lost her seat on Cowichan Tribes council in 2022, but was elected again in 2024 to a four-year term." Pynn, Larry (May 14, 2024). "Debra Toporowski takes NDP nomination in Cowichan Valley by acclamation". Six Mountains. Retrieved October 20, 2024.

• ALT1: ... that before 1985, Debra Toporowski was unable to receive Indian status, because under the Indian Act, her mother was forced to relinquish her status because she had married a Chinese Canadian man? Source: "Before 1985, Debra Toporowski (Cowichan) could not be a member of the Cowichan Tribes because her Cowichan mother had married a Chinese Canadian man in Duncan. The Indian Act forced her mother to give up her status as a member of the Cowichan Nation." Claxton, Nicholas XEMŦOLTW̱; Fong, Denise; Morrison, Fran; O’Bonsawin, Christine; Omatsu, Maryka; Price, John; Sandhra, Sharanjit Kaur (2021). "Challenging Racist "British Columbia": 150 Years and Counting". CCPA-BC. University of Victoria and the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives (BC Office). Retrieved 2 December 2024.
• ALT2: ... that a local reporter described the vote count for Cowichan Valley as a "back-and-forth battle" taking place between Debra Toporowski and the second place Conservative candidate? Source: "The riding's next MLA will be Debra Toporowski, who won a back-and-forth battle with the Conservative's John Koury." Simpson, Sarah (20 October 2024). "B.C. ELECTION: NDP wins tight race in Cowichan Valley riding". Cowichan Valley Citizen. Retrieved 29 November 2024.
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Upper Chehalis people Template:Did you know nominations/Lower Chehalis people
• Comment: Thank you in advance to the reviewer! This is the third in an unofficial series of four on articles regarding the Indigenous MLAs elected during the 2024 BC provincial election. QPQs will be completed within the next few days. Done, per below. ALT1 truthfully is not the most outstanding, probably thousands were disenfranchised because of that exact provision. If someone is familiar with the loss of status due to the Indian Act, one can understand Toporowski's case is not unique. Larry Grant was another individual whose status was unrecognized because of that same provision. However, it can serve as an educational tool for those unfamiliar with those provisions.

5x expanded by Ornithoptera (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 47 past nominations.

Ornithoptera (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC).

• @Ornithoptera: Note that per current QPQ rules, "QPQs will be completed within the next few days" will not suffice: it has to be immediately, and the nomination can be closed if one is not provided promptly. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Well... They're done now, thanks for the heads up. Ornithoptera (talk) 11:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Hefker

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• ... that hefker, unowned property in Talmudic law, came to express both personal freedom and societal abandonment in 20th C. Yiddish poetry?

• Source: Brenner, Naomi. "Milgroym, Rimon and Interwar Jewish Bilingualism." Journal of Jewish Identities 7, no. 1 (2014): 23-48, including "in Yiddish modernism hefker becomes a new mode of poetic identity that at once celebrates and suffers from this lack of belonging" " In contrast to Bergelson and Markish’s freedom and movement, Stencl’s hefker-yung is no free modernist spirit, but rather a crucified Jesus" Murav, Harriet. "David Hofshteyn’s Poetry of Listening." Lyre–Studies in Poetry and Lyric 1 (2023) including: "This essay examines the multiple resonances of the Jewish term hefker (literally,“unclaimed, abandoned, or neglected property”)... The pogrom cycle, as a whole, is a journey through the broken time and space of antisemitic violence."

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/René Vallon
• Comment: While there are potential hooks from ancient Jewish law alone, the use of this dry legal principle in modernist Yiddish poetry is pretty amazing IMO and new to me. If we're concerned people won't know words like Talmudic and Yiddish, the hook can substitute 'Jewish' for either or both. Thanks.

Created by ProfGray (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 10 past nominations.

ProfGray (talk) 21:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC).

Gonna suggest an alt :)

• ALT0a: ... that some 20th century Yiddish poetry incorporates the Talmudic concept of hefker?

Mm, not quite. Trying to figure out how to emphasize the time disparity. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 14:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 1

Qvadriga

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• ... that the 2014 chariot racing video game Qvadriga was inspired by the 1979 board game Circus Maximus?

• Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20201112035235/https://www.wargamer.com/articles/qvadriga-developer-interview/

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/An American Overture

Created by Hahnchen (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 7 past nominations.

hahnchen 00:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC).

• This is my first DYK review so let me know if I made a mistake. QPQ has been done. Article long enough (5032 characters), images licensed correctly, Earwig null results, article is well-referenced and presentable. Hook is verified and cited to a reliable primary source. However, I do not think the hook is interesting. Why should regular reader care that a video game is inspired by another board game? Ca ^{talk to me!} 02:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
  • Thanks, the reason I chose this hook is because there's a large gap in between the board game and the video game. I thought it was interesting to show the board game's legacy. I can suggest other hooks which refer to chariot racing, like the forty-three hippodromes and circuses, but I felt that less interesting because they are all just presented from a top down view. - hahnchen 15:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
    • To me, the fact that this is a racing game based on turn-based tactics seem interesting, since most racing games are real-time. However, I don't know if WP:DYKFICTION applies here. Ca ^{talk to me!} 01:28, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
      • I think that it being a turn-based tactical racing game is interesting, it is certainly rare for a video game. Alt hooks suggested below, but I still prefer the original

        ALT1... that PC gaming website Rock Paper Shotgun named the turn-based tactics game Qvadriga as the best racing game of 2014?

        * Source: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/best-racing-game-2014-qvadriga

        ALT2... that Qvadriga is a turn-based tactics chariot racing video game set in ancient Rome?

        * Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/qvadriga-review or http://www.turnopia.com/qvadriga/ or the game itself

      • hahnchen 20:28, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 2

Science Fiction Chronicle

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• ... that an American magazine Science Fiction Chronicle was described as "an alternative voice for the sf community" and "something of an East Coast institution"? Source: https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/science_fiction_chronicle
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nazareth Hall Preparatory Seminary, Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Moghraqa

Created by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 536 past nominations.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:24, 10 December 2024 (UTC).

Recategorization

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• ... that in 2003, Rwanda adopted a constitution that recategorized Rwandans of Hutu, Tutsi, and Twa ethnicities into one identity, banyarwanda?

• Source: Beyond Conflict and Spoilt Identities: How Rwandan Leaders Justify a Single Recategorization Model for Post-Conflict Reconciliation

Authored by Sigrun Marie Moss and published in the Journal of Social and Political Psychology in 2014. PDF available at: [32] Quotes: "Since 1994,the Rwandan government has attempted to remove the division of the population into the ‘ethnic’ groups (ubwoko) Hutu, Tutsi and Twa and instead encourage people to think of themselves only in terms of a common national Rwandan identity. This approach can be classified as recategorization of social identities– a process where subordinate identities are replaced with a shared or superordinate identity in order to improve intergroup relations." ...

"This comprehensive recategorization approach is based on a meta-narrative that essentialises Rwandan unity and de-essentialises ethnic identities, in a context where alternative narratives are not permitted. The 2003 constitution forbids genocide ideology, and a 2008 addition further limits identity discussions. These strict genocide ideology laws ban everything seen as divisionism, implying limited freedom of speech on topics of identity, political power and representation."

• • Reviewed:

Created by Paradox38 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Paradox38 (talk) 19:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC).

Articles created/expanded on December 3

2024 attack on the Bangladesh Assistant High Commission in India

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• ... that a Bangladeshi diplomatic mission in India was attacked by Hindu extremists affiliated to Vishva Hindu Parishad, protesting the arrest of a Hindu monk?

• Source: The premises of the Bangladesh Assistant High Commission in Agartala were breached by Hindu Sangharsh Samity, a Hindutwa outfit affiliated to Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), on Monday, December 2

• Reviewed:

Created by Za-ari-masen (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Za-ari-masen (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2024 (UTC).

Articles created/expanded on December 4

Good Gravy! (roller coaster)

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• ... that Good Gravy!, a roller coaster themed to Thanksgiving dinner, was first tested with a train full of plush turkeys?

• Source: https://blooloop.com/theme-park/news/holiday-world-good-gravy-coaster-test-run/

• ALT1: ... that riders on Good Gravy!, a roller coaster themed to Thanksgiving dinner, pass through a tunnel made of a giant cranberry sauce can? Source: "As the train races along, it will pass through a colossal cranberry jelly can"
• ALT2: ... that riders on Good Gravy!, a roller coaster themed to Thanksgiving dinner, pass by a 20-foot-tall (6.1 m) whisk? Source: "As the train races along, it will ... narrowly dodge towering kitchen utensils, including a 20-foot-tall whisk"
• Reviewed:

Created by Plighting Engineerd (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Plighting Engineerd (talk) 05:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC).

• @Plighting Engineerd: Article is new/long enough and looks good. No QPQ required. Reviewing ALT0: The hook is funny. It matches the article and the source which is good. I would change "stuffed turkeys" to "plush turkeys" because it makes it sound like it is food, not toy. ―Panamitsu (talk) 21:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, edited! Plighting Engineerd (talk) 22:45, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Ly Singko

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• ... that Ly Singko—who had been raised in a Catholic household and worked for the Kuomintang's news agency—was imprisoned under Singapore's Internal Security Act for "glamourising the communist system"?
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The King of Comedy Visits Shanghai, Template:Did you know nominations/Melichrus procumbens

Created by Kingoflettuce (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 173 past nominations.

KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 07:13, 5 December 2024 (UTC).

• At the moment, I'm unsure if I will give this a full review or not, so for now this is just an inquiry: I'm really not sure what the connection is between her growing up in a Catholic household and working for the Kuomintang, to the primary hook fact (the "glamourising" aspect). I understand that there's supposed to be a contrast between the allegation despite him being involved with the Kuomintang, but I suspect that readers will not immediately get the connection. More importantly, the part seems to add unnecessary complexity to the hook: just saying he was imprisoned for "glamourising" should suffice per WP:DYKTRIM since that fact itself is already interesting and the part doesn't seem essential to the hook fact. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I just realized that the hook is 198 characters, or just a hair below the 200-character limit, so it definitely needs trimming. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:40, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

At least a hundred other suspected communist sympathisers were imprisoned during this period, but I thought what made this especially interesting was that he (not she!!) was Catholic and had worked for the Kuomintang's news agency. The irony should be quite obvious (or so I thought)... And if something is under the limit, albeit just by 2 characters, shouldn't it technically still be permissible? 😅 (As opposed to being 2 characters over...) KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 12:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

@Kingoflettuce: As mentioned per above, per WP:DYKTRIM, excessive detail and facts should be removed if they are not essential to the hook fact. According to the old rules (and also continued in spirit in the current guidelines), hooks slightly below the 200 character limit can still be rejected per editor discretion. Actually, I've gone ahead and struck it, so a new hook is needed. As for the misgendering, I apologize: the pronouns are now fixed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Well yeah but as I said I thought the details weren't excessive, rather they REALLY added to the "interestingness" of the charges. It'd be like if a Jan 6 participant was found to be a dedicated ActBlue donor or something. Oh well. I sure hope it's not just me who finds the irony much too obvious though! KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 14:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

I did a bit of a mini-survey on Discord and all the responses said the original hook was too complex or detailed, so it wasn't just I who had similar views. In any case, please propose a new hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Sure that's fine, how about ..."... that Chinese-language newspaper columnist Ly Singko was imprisoned for "glamourising the communist system"? Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 04:25, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:19, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 5

Jack Browning

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• ... that in 2022, college football player Jack Browning was named All-Mountain West Conference at three different positions?

• Source: SDSU website ("Also earned first-team all-MW accolades at punter [1] by Pro Football Focus, Phil Steele Magazine and College Football Network, and as a kickoff specialist [2] by College Football Network, and a fourth-team honoree at kicker [3] by Phil Steele Magazine")

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Mohamed Aw-Ali Abdi & Template:Did you know nominations/Anthony E. Wills
• Comment: Will complete QPQ within 24 hours.

Moved to mainspace by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 276 past nominations.

BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:39, 12 December 2024 (UTC).

Noah Knigga

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• ... that American football player Noah Knigga went viral for his last name and had to clarify its pronunciation?

• Source: Dyer, Kristian (January 12, 2024). "Noah Knigga is hoping to make a name for himself on the football field, not just on social media". USA Today Sports. Retrieved December 5, 2024.

• ALT1: ... that Eastern Michigan's football program needed a linebacker to play for them next year and luckily "Noah guy"? Source: https://twitter.com/EMUFB/status/1864288197523722707
• Reviewed:
• Comment: QPQs to come

Created by Soulbust (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 39 past nominations.

Soulbust (talk) 20:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC).

Josie Brown Childs

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• ... that community activist Josie Brown Childs had the title of "Matriarch of the Movement"?

• Source: https://witnessslips.ilga.gov/legislation/103/SR/PDF/10300SR0252.pdf

• ALT1: ... that community activist Josie Brown Childs organized the 16th Annual Duke Ellington Conference in 1998, which included the first performance of his musical "My People" since its 1963 premiere? Source: https://www.chipublib.org/fa-josie-brown-childs-papers/
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Chrystal (musician) and Template:Did you know nominations/Trey McKenney

Created by SL93 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 419 past nominations.

SL93 (talk) 02:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC).

• Comment. Not a review, but in examining the article it relies heavily on primary materials. The History Makers source should probably directly link to the interview transcript (https://www.thehistorymakers.org/sites/default/files/A2013_248_EAD.pdf) and give credit to Larry Crowe as the interviewer. I would consider this a primary source. I added an independent obituary with a byline but it consisted mostly of quotes so I'm not sure how independent that is either. The Black Metropolis Research Consortium source should be replaced with the original at https://www.chipublib.org/fa-josie-brown-childs-papers/ These papers are housed at the the Chicago Public Library, Vivian G. Harsh Research Collection, Woodson Regional library and were processed/compiled by Elizabeth Loch and Emily Minehart who should be attributed as the authors/compilers of the file. Unfortunately neither of these two biographies have a named authors and they both have close attachments to primary materials (one being principally an interview with the subject with an attached non-bylined biography, and the other papers donated by the subject housed at a library with again a non by-lined biography). It's not clear how independent these sources are from Childs, although I don't doubt they are accurate. The article is also not compliant with MOS:CHRONOLOGICAL. I do think this person is notable, I'm just not certain if the sources currently in the article clearly demonstrate WP:SIGCOV which is a concern for promoting this to the main page.4meter4 (talk) 03:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

  4meter4 As for chronological, are you only referring to the death being mentioned under the personal life and death section? SL93 (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@SL93 Yes. Biographies should be presented in chronological order; ending with a person's death and maybe a legacy section covering after death significance if appropriate. Generally an "early life and education" section opens an article. Then a "career section". Then a "later life" section which includes a person's death as well as activities in retirement. If possible, it's best to interweave personal life information into the article's other sections and not separate it out in order to maintain chronological presentation. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

4meter4 I did that with a death section until the point that editors whined about me having a short section with a few sentences or less. That caused me to not include death details in their own section for a few years up until you saying something about it. SL93 (talk) 03:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

How do these sources look? - [33], [34], [35], and [36]. SL93 (talk) 03:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@SL93 I'll look at the sources and get back to you shortly on that point. It is true that short subsections are also problematic under WP:MOS guidelines. If there isn't enough content for a later life section, it's perfectly fine to have a single "Career and later life" subheading. You can bundle topics under one section. Likewise the opposite is true when writing on a person where there is more detail. In those cases you can extrapolate out more diverse subheadings if/when it is appropriate. There is flexibility to expand, remove, and combine subheadings as long you follow both the general MOS and the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography guidelines. Every article isn't going to look the same, but biographies do need to present content in chronological order as much as possible. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@SL93 I think those sources look great, and would do a lot to help demonstrate SIGCOV. Please take the time to work those into the article, and also please make the adjustments to the extant sources that I mentioned above if you haven't already. Doing all of that should prevent any notability issues being raised while it is on the main page. The main thing is we don't want an article to get pulled when it is on the main page at DYK because somebody decides to take it to AFD. It's not a good look for the project. Having a good number of by-lined sources helps prevent that. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I will leave a note here once I'm done. SL93 (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

I'm done. SL93 (talk) 02:20, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

I wasn't reviewing so someone else can review this. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Pisidice of Methymna

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• ... that in Greek mythology, Achilles promised to marry Pisidice if she would help him conquer her homeland, but afterwards he had her executed for treason?

• Source: Käppel, Lutz (October 1, 2006). "Peisidice". In Cancik, Hubert; Schneider, Helmuth (eds.). Brill's New Pauly. Kiel: Brill Reference On line. doi:10.1163/1574-9347_bnp_e912120. ISSN 1574-9347. Retrieved December 5, 2024.

• Reviewed:

Created by Deiadameian (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Deiadameian (talk) 22:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC).

• This is a new article, that is long enough, is well sourced and free from any copyvio issues. No QPQ is required. The hook is interesting and works well as it is. The content of the hook is verified by the quoted source, and there are appropriate citations in the article in the right places. This is a nice article, accessible and interesting. Good to go! Chaiten1 (talk) 23:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
  • @Chaiten1 and Deiadameian: this hook falls under WP:DYKFICTION and cannot run. I would suggest focusing another hook on a fact in the "Origins" or "Connections" sections. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 04:52, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
    • @AirshipJungleman29: Thank you for informing us. However given that now it's been more than seven days after the article's creation, nomination and (mistaken) approval that I'm being informed of its ineligibility, it is likely no longer suitable for DYK anyway. Deiadameian (talk) 7:56, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
      • Deiadameian, that only applies to starting the nomination. Workshopping the hook can take up to two months. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 09:09, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for not having realised about DYKFICTION - happy to help workshop a new hook Chaiten1 (talk) 14:22, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 6

Richard Stratton (diplomat)

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• ... that Richard Stratton's diplomatic career took him from the Pitcairn Islands to "South America to Japan, and from Southern Africa to the foothills of the Himalayas"?

• Source: quote is from The Times - I also added to the hook his relation to the Pitcairn Islands (see e.g. [37] as a ref for him being the territory's governor)

• ALT1: ... that Richard Stratton's diplomatic career took him "from South America to Japan, and from Southern Africa to the foothills of the Himalayas"? Source: same
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Always Happy to Explode &
• Comment: To do QPQ within 24 hours. ALT1 is just the ALT0 hook without the Pitcairn Islands, which I thought might be an interesting addition. This would be just the fourth DYK bio ever relating to Pitcairn (which is understandable, since they only have a population of 30!)

Moved to mainspace by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 278 past nominations.

BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:44, 13 December 2024 (UTC).

• New enough, long enough and within policy. The hooks are fine and supported by inline citation from reliable sources, but since they contain quotes these should be attributed in the hooks as well, according to WP:DYKHOOKCITE. Only one QPQ done, but I guess backlog-mode was not enabled then? Otherwise we would need another QPQ as well. Yakikaki (talk) 15:44, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

John Mascarenhas

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• ... that John Mascarenhas served as the chairman of his country's legislature and the president of their Olympic committee at the same time?

• Source: Seychelles Nation ("Mr Mascarenhas, who occupied the post of Seychelles National Olympic Committee (Snoc) president from 1982 to 1991, was also the chairman of the People's Assembly from 1983 to 1987.")

• ALT1: ... that to promote Seychellois independence, John Mascarenhas called a newspaper pretending to be a prominent politician and advocated for his cause? Source: Albert René: The Father of Modern Seychelles, A Biography p. 138/139 ("John Mascarenhas, a Kenyan-born Seychellois and former SDP man who was now a fervant supporter of independence ... René, who was always quick to accuse Mancham and the SDP of dirty tricks, was not past arranging some of his own ... He knew that David Joubert [co-founder of the SDP party] was passing through Nairobi ... On the day that Joubert passed through Nairobi, Mascarenhas ... phoned the East African Standard claiming to be David Joubert and informing them that the SDP now stood for independence")
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Adrien Nunez &
• Comment: To do QPQ within 24 hours. This will be only the seventh DYK bio ever for Seychelles.

Created by BeanieFan11 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 277 past nominations.

BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:34, 13 December 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ:
Overall: @BeanieFan11: An interesting read. The hooks and article are good to go. Please ping me when the second QPQ is done. Yue🌙 06:32, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

The House of Bijapur

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The House of Bijapur

• ... that The House of Bijapur (pictured) has been called a "painted curtain call" since the dynasty it depicts was overthrown only a few years later?

• Source: Hutton, Deborah (2016). "Memory and Monarchy: A Seventeenth-Century Painting from Bijapur and its Afterlives". South Asian Studies. 32 (1): 22–41. ISSN 0266-6030. Thus, within a few years of the paintings completion, the sultanate it celebrated was gone. Stuart Cary Welch, in characteristically evocative prose, called the work ' a painted curtain call ': the main characters appearing together for one last ovation before the play ended and the stage went dark.

• ALT1: ... that The House of Bijapur (pictured) depicts eight members of the Adil Shahi dynasty? Source: Hutton, Deborah (2016). "Memory and Monarchy: A Seventeenth-Century Painting from Bijapur and its Afterlives". South Asian Studies. 32 (1): 22–41. ISSN 0266-6030. it is larger than most manuscript paintings), its arresting lavender and saffron landscape, and its subject matter: it depicts eight rulers of the ʿAdil Shahi dynasty seated together on a carpet. Technically, it is not all of the ʿAdil Shahi rulers, as the artists left out the unfortunate Mallū ʿĀdil Khān(r. 1534–35), who ruled for a mere seven months before he was deposed.
• Reviewed:

Created by AmateurHi$torian (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

AmateurHi$torian (talk) 15:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC).

• The article is new enough, long enough and the hook proposals good, particular the first one. They are also supported by inline citations. However, stylistically the article needs work. I would say it currently fails the presentability criterion. The lead section does not summarise the article. The "Significance" section starts abruptly, stating it is larger than ordinary manuscript pictures, but until now the reader hasn't even been informed it IS a manuscript picture. The "Description" section starts like this: "In the middle is the principal subject; The painting depicts eight of the nine rulers of the Bijapur Sultanate; leaving out only Mallu Adil Khan, whose reign lasted for only seven months." Why the semi-colons? These are just a few immediate points I spotted. I think the nominator should go through the article and bring it up to common Manual of Style standards before we can proceed with this nomination. Let me know when you have done so and I will take another look. Kind regards, Yakikaki (talk) 15:35, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Prius Missile

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• ... that the Toyota Prius has been witnessed crashed so frequently it was referred as a missile?

• Source: https://www.nextage.jp/model_guide/toyota/315383/

• ALT1: ... that the Toyota Prius has been referred to a missile? Source: https://www.nextage.jp/model_guide/toyota/315383/
• Reviewed:
• Comment: I don't have negative intents against the vehicle, but the original may be a bit negative, so I have a more neutral ALT here as well. The name literally says "Prius Missile", so I thought this was a WP:BLUE situation, but I guess something is needed as a bare minimum.

Created by AlphaBetaGamma (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:09, 6 December 2024 (UTC).

• Comment: @AlphaBetaGamma: Thanks for such an interesting article. I'm from California but I live in Hawaii. Both states have a lot of Priuses, so I was pretty confused by your hook when I read it, because in those two states, the Prius is not really known for crashes. (The joke around these parts is that it's usually a Nissan, but it's not exactly clear why that is). I read your article, and I see that it is mostly about a phenomenon in Japan involving older drivers, which makes a lot of sense and is quite interesting. I think this is the kind of hook (ALT0) that shocks readers (like myself) and increases traffic to your article, but I also wonder if it is somewhat misleading since the hook itself doesn't mention Japan or older drivers. In any case, it's a great hook, but I wonder if it is legit to shock the reader like this. If it is, it's highly effective and would probably get a lot of traffic. I'm not sure if we can trick readers like this, so I will ping a few people and see what they say: @Launchballer and RoySmith: Thanks. ABG, you are also missing the word "as" in ALT1. Viriditas (talk) 10:23, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

This seems like click bait. I wouldn't run it. RoySmith (talk) 13:59, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

@RoySmith: Thank you, that was one of my concerns. My other question is where is the red line? In other words, some of our most successful hooks approach clickbait, wouldn't you agree? How do you know when you've crossed that line? For me, this hook crosses it, as it doesn't let the reader know that the Prius is only considered accident prone in Japan due to the demographic of older drivers. Perhaps, if it just stopped there, it would be fine, but it doesn't. Reading further, we discover this is just a slang term, and that official data shows that Priuses are no more accident prone than other vehicles, which is what I suspected from the jump. For this reason, I am leaning into crossing out ALT0. Viriditas (talk) 21:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Review

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral: - ?
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:
• Other problems: - Rage-baiting, clickbait

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article is new enough and long enough and moved from draft to mainspace. Earwig shows no issues. It's not clear if the nominator is the author of the original article, which was created on ja.wikipedia in mid 2021. If not, I believe you're supposed to attribute when you copy over the material as a translation in your first edit, but you just wrote "start draft". In any case, you've got a fully formed, well written article over at ja, yet you only copied over (or wrote) a minor version of it here. I don't get why you did that. The current version here on en.wikipedia needs copyedits. However, I would encourage you to return to the ja article and import the majority of it back over here, as it makes much more sense and covers the entire topic in a comprehensive manner. As for your hooks, ALT0 is ragebait (see the discussion above), and you got me good! I was genuinely upset as to why the beloved Prius (official car of liberals in the US) was associated with crashes! I clicked so fast and hard that smoke came out of my mouse. It was then that I realized, I had been fooled. More so when I check the original article on ja. Then there's the image of the crashed vehicle. I recall seeing that image before, and I think it's from California. Have you considered using Japan-related images? So, you've got a lot of issues to deal with here, but I can walk you through them. First things first, why not copy over the entire article from ja? It's really well done and would clear up a great many things. Viriditas (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC) Viriditas (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Not really, the paragraph

Extended content
According to Masaki Kubota [ja], the viral spread of the slang and the creation of the Prius's public image as a crash-prone car is thought to be caused by the extremely large amount of the car in use, the car being popular among older drivers, older drivers usually being overconfident in their driving skills, and the Prius's significance as a well-known car brand.

Covered the entire "原因" paragraph. Not too sure how much I should cover beyond that. I hope the next ALT is more informing, because the lack of information causing "click bait" seems to be the issue here. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 22:12, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

• ALT2: ...that the Toyota Prius driven by older people in Japan has been referred to a missile?

• IMO, "referred to a missile" doesn't really work in English. Also, try rearranging your primary link so that it comes first; that tends to increase views. You may also want to work in the fact that this is a slang term or a meme, as that isn't made clear. As for the main ja article, I'm not clear on the disconnect based on your response. There's a lot of content in that article that didn't find its way here, and it more accurately describes the topic.[38] Viriditas (talk) 22:24, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

• What about "referred to as a missile"? I think that's grammatically correct. Bremps... 19:13, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

• @Bremps: See my original review at the top. I already made that recommendation. Viriditas (talk) 19:51, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 7

Jewish Ethnographic Expedition

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• ... that the Jewish Ethnographic Expedition visited more than 60 shtetls in the Pale of Settlement before World War I? Source: [39]
  • ALT1: ... that the questionnaire prepared after the Jewish Ethnographic Expedition had 2,087 questions? Source: [40]
  • ALT2: ... that the questionnaire prepared after the Jewish Ethnographic Expedition had 2,087 questions and was called "a modern epic"? Source: [41]
  • ALT3: ... that the collection of music and artifacts gathered during the Jewish Ethnographic Expedition was thought to be lost until the dissolution of the Soviet Union? Source: [42] [43]
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Blossoms Under Somewhere

Created by Artem.G (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 18 past nominations.

Artem.G (talk) 07:51, 12 December 2024 (UTC).

• @Artem.G: Impressive work and excellent read! AGF on the quality sources. ALT1 is the least interesting hook; the others are all interesting, especially primary and ALT2. Pending QPQ for pass. Al Ameer (talk) 03:10, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! Qpq is done now. Artem.G (talk) 09:34, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Current nominations

Articles created/expanded on December 8

The Man Who Knew Too Much (Alexander McQueen collection)

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• ... that when Alexander McQueen, following years of criticism for over-reliance on runway spectacles, presented The Man Who Knew Too Much (Autumn/Winter 2005), it was criticised for its lack of theatrics? Source: Judith Watt, Alexander McQueen: The Life and the Legacy, p 224 & Kate Bethune, Encyclopedia of Collections, p 316 (neither available on GBooks but screencaps emailed on request)
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Gilopez Kabayao, Template:Did you know nominations/Ethanoligenens harbinense
  • Comment:

Created by Premeditated Chaos (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 58 past nominations.

♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:31, 9 December 2024 (UTC).

• Marking this as my QPQ review. Howard the Duck (talk) 03:25, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 9

An Amorous History of the Silver Screen

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• ... that An Amorous History of the Silver Screen has been read as a biographic metafilm, paralleling its lead's rise from prostitution into film stardom?

• Source: *Zhang, Zhen (2005). An Amorous History of the Silver Screen: Shanghai Cinema, 1896-1937. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-226-98238-0.

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/James Alexander Ulio Template:Did you know nominations/Revant Himatsingka

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 720 past nominations.

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 21:57, 9 December 2024 (UTC).

Articles created/expanded on December 10

2024 MLS expansion draft

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• ... that San Diego FC, Major League Soccer's newest team selected five new players during the 2024 MLS expansion draft?

• Source: "San Diego FC: 2024 MLS Expansion Draft results". Major League Socccer. December 11, 2024. Retrieved December 12, 2024.

• ALT1: ... that Heine Gikling Bruseth, Hamady Diop, Jasper Löffelsend, Hosei Kijima, and Thiago Andrade were selected in the 2024 MLS expansion draft by San Diego FC? Source: "San Diego FC: 2024 MLS Expansion Draft results". Major League Socccer. December 11, 2024. Retrieved December 12, 2024.
• Reviewed:

Created by Demt1298 (talk) and Motdattan (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Demt1298 (talk) 00:50, 13 December 2024 (UTC).

• Neither hook is interesting to a broad audience, as outside of football/soccer fans, the hook is unlikely to be perceived as interesting or unusual. Please provide more accessible hooks that can attract or interest even non-MLS fans. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:12, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

@SounderBruce, BeanieFan11, and Gonzo fan2007: Is it okay if any of you propose alternate hooks, if it is possible? Also pinging Demt1298 and Motdattan for their input. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:10, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Both hooks are pretty boring, even to this soccer fan. How about this ALT2: ... that the 2024 MLS expansion draft took place at a shopping center? Source: San Diego Union-Tribune SounderBruce 00:29, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Maybe ALT3 ... that the 2024 MLS expansion draft featured only five selections? – the next would need to be added, but perhaps ALT4 ... that the 2024 MLS expansion draft featured the selections of a Norwegian, a Senegalese, a German, a Japanese, and a Brazilian – and no one else? BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:07, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

I like SounderBruce's suggestion the most. Just waiting for a response from the nominator before proceeding. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:09, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Christmas: A Biography

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• ... that Christmas: A Biography says that Christmas became secular and capitalist shortly after its inception in the fourth century? Source: as Flanders repeatedly shows: Yuletide has almost always been more rowdy and secular than reverent or religious. + Mythologizing Christmas by selling it, she argues ... has been a slowly building process that began almost as soon as Christmas became a widely practiced tradition
  • ALT1: ... that according to Christmas: A Biography, Christmas became secular and capitalist shortly after its inception in the fourth century? Source: Same as above
  • ALT2: ... that there is a biography on Christmas? Source: Book title, enough said
  • ALT3: ... that one critic called Christmas: A Biography "body armor when the war on Christmas shrapnel sprays"? Source: Thankfully, there is Judith Flanders' Christmas: A Biography, which can serve as body armor when the "war on Christmas" shrapnel sprays.
  • ALT4: ... that one critic recommended Christmas: A Biography for those whose "eagerness in Christmas starts in August"? Source: If your eagerness for Christmas starts in August, you need this book.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Meillet's principle & Template:Did you know nominations/Extraterritoriality of Princess Margriet's birth
  • Comment: Not sure if WP:DYKFICTION applies to non-fiction, but considering there's been several non-fiction book hooks about what the book has, I don't think it does.

Moved to mainspace by Miraclepine (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 65 past nominations.

ミラP@Miraclepine 17:19, 12 December 2024 (UTC).

• Comment:I think there's a few problems here. ALT0 and ALT1 are red flags, and are not supported by the book. They are cultural and verbal anachronisms. Capitalism didn't arise until the 16th century, so Christmas couldn't have become capitalist in the fourth century. I looked at the book, and the author doesn't say this. It sounds like you are citing book critics who may have been writing tongue in cheek or perhaps were making their own arguments, I don't know. Also, there's similar problems in the article itself. For example, you write, "After debunking the myth of pagan winter solstice celebrations due to a lack of sufficient evidence, it reveals that the precursor of Christmas was the Mithraism winter solstice celebrations, which were later co-opted by Christians under the rule of Pope Julius I for the celebration of the nativity of Jesus on 25 December." I think you may have misread the passage in the book. The author doesn't debunk anything. The author notes that we only have evidence for pagan celebrations handed down to us by the Romans; the evidence of pagan winter solstice celebrations in Europe prior to the Romans has been lost to time. Also, the author doesn't say "Christmas has always been a secular, capitalist celebration", perhaps that's the argument of the book reviewers and critics. The author's central thesis is given several times: 1) while Christmas is known as a Christian holiday, it wasn't always known as a solemn, religious event in the past, and has tended to focus on celebration and entertainment more than religion. 2) Christmas is made up of many different traditions, and is not unique to any one nation or culture. Now, the author describes this "dancing and feasting" in the fourth century as a "secular pleasure", which is an odd use of the term given that it was an official Christian holiday at the time. The author's argument goes further, pointing to both the religious nature of Saturnalia, which began several days before December 25, the religious worship of the birth of Mithras on the winter solstice, and the secularity of a Roman New Year's festival during the New Year, when people spent more money than usual on festivities, particularly the wealthier class. Far from debunking the pagan origins, the author notes that Christmas merely absorbed the practices and traditions of the pagan festivals. By the middle ages "the focal point...for the majority was not the birth of Christ, but eating and drinking and entertainment". We don't really see capitalism mentioned at all here, so I think there's needs to be a bit of a rewrite. Yes, the author does point to secular practices quite a bit, so you may have a good argument for including that term. Now, assuming changes are made to the article based on the above, I could support some modification of either ALT0 or ALT1. Not a fan of ALT2, ALT3, or ALT4. If you do modify ALT0 or ALT1, I think there's support in the book to say that "Christmas became secular", but I honestly think you should try and go with a new hook that cites the author's thesis directly instead of pointing to secularism. That is to say, a hook that focuses on showing that even though Christmas is a Christian holiday, it has historically focused more on eating, drinking, and entertainment than religion. That kind of hook would remain entirely true to the central thesis of the author, while mentioning capitalism does not, as I don't see where she discusses capitalism in the book other than to point to the Scrooge trope of the Potter character in It's a Wonderful Life. Please correct me if I'm wrong or if I'm missing something. Thinking about it further as I look at the book, there's far, far more interesting hooks here, that make the above all but worthless. You've got a good opportunity to share unusual information about the history of Christmas that most people aren't aware of, and I think you should go that route. The author focuses, for example, on unusual Christmas traditions in the middle ages that would make great hooks. Chapters 5 and 6 talk a lot about the transition into modern conceptions of Christmas that also has a wealth of hooks available. Chapter 7 shows the development of commercialism and how it radically changed the holiday. Viriditas (talk) 23:43, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: I've fixed the pagan myth part and capitalism anachronism.

Also, the reviews tend to point out facts about the book before giving their opinion; would citing the author's thesis be directly from the book or the reviews' factual content? As for scourging the book for hooks, I believe how the book works is usually more hookier than random stuff the book has, and to be fair, I figured ALT2 would be hooky given the irony between the word biography (indicating it's about a person) and Christmas being a concept.

I have added new hooks without the capitalism anachronism, as well as those that focus on the secularism and enjoyment:

• ALT5A: ... that Christmas: A Biography says that Christmas has been about celebration and enjoyment since its inception in the fourth century? Source: the earliest of days the focal point of Christmas for the majority was not the birth of Christ but the acts of eating, drinking and being merry + Christmas, of course, has been all things to all people since it was first recorded as a festival in the fourth century… a religious occasion, a family celebration, a time of eating and drinking. And yet the origins of the customs which characterise the festive season are wreathed in myth.
• ALT5B: ... that according to Christmas: A Biography, Christmas has been about celebration and enjoyment since its inception in the fourth century? Source: Same as ALT5A
• ALT6A: ... that Christmas: A Biography says that Christmas has been mostly secular since shortly after its inception in the fourth century? Source: First ref at ALT0
• ALT6B: ... that according to Christmas: A Biography, Christmas has been mostly secular since its inception in the fourth century? Source: First ref at ALT0
• ALT6C: ... that Christmas: A Biography says that despite its Christian origins, Christmas has been mostly secular since shortly after its inception in the fourth century? Source: First ref at ALT0 + Flanders begins with the background of Christmas festivities ... Early Christian leaders apparently recognized that because many converts were used to commemorating [the Mithraic winter solstice], it made sense to co-opt it, even though Christ was probably born sometime in spring or summer.

BTW you should try to organize your long replies by paragraph and topic so they're easy to read. Let me know if I missed something. ミラP@Miraclepine 04:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

The problems are still in the article and the hooks don't necessarily reflect the book. The lead still says the book "suggests that the holiday's transition towards secular capitalism occurred shortly after its inception in the fourth century", the body still says the book "explores the belief that Christmas shifted from what Flanders calls 'a deeply solemn religious event' to one of secular capitalism" That's not in the book and the author doesn't discuss that and it's not her central thesis as I showed up above. You're also misreading what you call "a lack of what Flanders calls 'convincing evidence' of pagan winter solstice celebrations". The book doesn't say that at all, quite the opposite. The author says that the evidence of pagan celebrations in Europe has been lost. Tell you what, tell me which secondary sources discuss capitalism and the lack of convincing evidence for pagan celebrations, and we can resolve this. Otherwise, stick to what the book says and what good summaries and reviews agree upon, and you should be just fine. If you like, I can provide additional examples of how to fix the problem, but I assumed that I already did this in my original reply. Viriditas (talk) 08:09, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I see now that part of the problem is your misreading of Dirda 2017.[44] Dirda isn't making the same claim about capitalism and pagan winter solstice celebrations that you are. Please, read it again, as it reflects what I've been saying all along. Viriditas (talk) 08:22, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited:
• Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Curbow 2017; The Economist 2023; Hughes-Hallett 2017; Manning 2017; Publishers Weekly 2017. What do all of these sources have in common? None of them describe Christmas: A Biography as the "belief that Christmas shifted from what Flanders calls 'a deeply solemn religious event' to one of secular capitalism", nor do any of them say that a "transition towards secular capitalism occurred shortly after its inception in the fourth century", which as I have pointed out in my comments makes no sense whatsoever. Barbara Hoffert of Library Journal wins the award for summarizing the 300+ page book in twenty-one succinct words: "Flanders documents Christmas as celebration, from an early pope's complaints about excess holiday cheer to the first holiday parade (not Macy’s!)." That's exactly what the book is about, no more, no less. From what I can gather, the nominator may have been confused by Michael Dirda's WaPo review. Dirda accurately summarizes one of the author's central points: "Yuletide has almost always been more rowdy and secular than reverent or religious." When Dirda writes "First off, forget the Druids: 'No convincing evidence of winter solstice celebrations in pagan Europe has survived", that does not mean that there is a lack of pagan winter solstice celebrations. The author of the book makes this clear in the context of investigating why the date of 25 December was chosen for Christmas. The author muses, perhaps it was because of the winter solstice, but unfortunately, "no convincing evidence of winter solstice celebrations in pagan Europe has survived", so we can't know for sure. This is entirely different than what the article currently says and what it said before. So, I've detailed these many problems several times now. If the nominator wants me to send them a digital copy of the book, please send me an email and I will share an attachment that they can review. The book is not about secularism nor capitalism, it is about how the notions of what we think of as Christmas, which is rooted in the Christian tradition, hasn't really been a solemn, religious event in the past or in the present, and has generally been a time for celebration, such as eating, drinking, and entertainment. Finally, the author discusses how Christmas is made up of many different cultural (and national) traditions, emphasizing the hybridity and fluidity of different traditions involved. In other words, it ain't American, it ain't German, it ain't British, etc. As the nominator correctly observes in the article, consumerism and commercialism came much later, not as we are also told in the current version "shortly after its inception in the fourth century". The problems are not insurmountable. All that is needed is a will to fix them (and the hooks). The "secularism" that the book discusses is the celebration, divorced from its Christian religious beliefs. ALT5A and ALT5B get much closer to this idea, but sadly, they are not interesting compared to the wide variety of possible hooks found in the book and the reviews. Get rid of the "capitalism" material (it's not in any of the secondary sources nor is it in the book), tone down the concept of secularism and focus instead on the secular nature of celebration over the many centuries, and find a great hook, and I think we can move forward. Viriditas (talk) 09:30, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: I have already fixed the central points issue.

For the pagan part the book says "No convincing evidence of winter solstice celebrations in pagan Europe has survived. Instead, the first instance of such celebrations that we know of was in Roman times", and I have already replaced the Dirda ref with the book ref and clarified there so that it matches what the refs say.

As for the secular capitalism part, I just forgot to update the lede when I fixed the issue; I have fixed the lede discrepency as well as matched the secular capitalism part with what the book has.

Also TBH my concern is that noting specific examples might be undue? That's why I prefer those found in secondary sources and why I tried to refrain from using the trivia in the book for hooks.

Oh, I don't have the book, just a limited preview at Google Books with a disorganized search option.

Hear are the new hooks (all are on secular Christmas celebrations except 6E, which I added to fix a factual discrepancy):

• ALT6D: ... that Christmas: A Biography says that Christmas celebrations have been mostly secular since its inception in the fourth century? Source: First ref at ALT6A + Christmas, of course, has been all things to all people since it was first recorded as a festival in the fourth century… a religious occasion, a family celebration, a time of eating and drinking
• ALT6E: ... that Christmas: A Biography says that despite its Christian origins, Christmas has been mostly secular since its inception in the fourth century? Source: Same as ALT6C
• ALT6F: ... that Christmas: A Biography says that despite Christmas's Christian origins, its celebrations have been mostly secular since its inception in the fourth century? Source: Same as ALT6C + Ref 2 in ALT6D
• ALT6G: ... that Christmas: A Biography says that despite the Christian origins of Christmas, its celebrations have been mostly secular since its inception in the fourth century? Source: Same as ALT6C + Ref 2 in ALT6D

Again, let me know if there are any issues I missed. ミラP@Miraclepine 17:54, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Email me, and I will send you the book. Viriditas (talk) 18:16, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

 Done ミラP@Miraclepine 18:49, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: And about these issues I've fixed? ミラP@Miraclepine 23:01, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate your efforts, I really do. I don't know why you keep coming back to the capitalism thing. The author only addresses the commercialism and consumerism of modern Christmas in the post-1800 era, which takes up perhaps 2 of the 12 chapters. The book is not focused on "explor[ing] the belief that Christmas shifted from a deeply solemn religious event to one distorted by our own secular, capitalist society". What Flanders is addressing on p. 3 is not her thesis (which I've addressed multiple times up above, so I don't know why you keep going down this path), but how our current beliefs about Christmas in the past are based on questionable assumptions. She's directly addressing the popular argument that crass commercialism has "sullied" the religious aspects of Christmas, and she counters this with her thesis showing it has always been a celebration. The argument itself is not part of the thesis, but definitely plays a large role in her development of it. That's very different than saying the book explores that question. It might help if you stick with the secondary sources on questions about what the book explores, and when you have that framework, then cite Flanders directly. That's generally how I write most articles. The latest issue is not that much of a big deal as the previous ones, but I did want to point it out. I will do a read through now. Viriditas (talk) 23:23, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

I want to make some notes here:

• Infobox: You have some strange formatting here. I've never seen italics used like this before.
• Lead: The accuracy issues have been mostly fixed, so that's very good. In other words, the lead is mostly accurate. As for the composition, it need a bit of work and I recommend tightening it up a bit. Revisit the secondary sources and take a closer look at the book I sent you; skim the 12 chapters. You'll get a better idea of how to write a good summary and tighten up the wording.
• Contents: Needs a bit of work. I've addressed two of the problems up above, so I will only address additional ones here: additions and subtractions: "In addition to the English-speaking world, it discusses festivities from Continental Europe, including the Finnish tradition of reindeer moccasins; during then (link to Santi-Chlaus, as I created the redirect); You write "the poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas" which doesn't connect directly with anything, so fix that by filling in the gaps from page 99. "During its coverage on the topic, There are two contrasting accounts of contemporary Christmas festivities in London". "Forbes said that this "demonstrates that not all were able to regard Christmas as the season to be jolly". This is an unnecessary quote as it is covered extensively in pp. 154-160 and you can easily use your own words to describe the differences. Also, if you back up a few pages you'll see you're actually missing important information about how Christmas used to last 12 days and how it changed from a holiday for adults to a holiday for children, and how the rise of rail transport led to larger Christmas parties, requiring the working class to increase their labor to serve the increased number of people in huge celebrations for the middle class. Prussia banned work on Christmas Eve and Day, but allowed for loopholes which kept the working class laboring when they should have had the days off. This is all in the book, and you don't have to cover it, but summarizing it explains why "not all were able" to be jolly. You don't need the Forbes quote to do that. Show, don't tell, etc. "Discusses, discussion". You use variants of this word six times in this section alone. "Addition". You use this word three times. "discusses Christmas music". You're missing a word here; rewrite. "the relatively-recent origins of Christmas songs like "Jingle Bells", the role of Jewish composers in the creation of such music". You're missing "and". Overall, except for the working class bit, your summary is fairly comprehensive, so good job on that.
• Reception: You're all over the place here. Find a common theme around the reviews and group them together. You're also giving us quotes that don't really inform, and are better off paraphrased or excised all together and replaced with a short summary of whether they liked the book or not and if they had specific criticisms. Then group those criticisms together by shared attributes. Each critic will usually take a specific POV based on their own interest and expertise, which is the easiest way to group their comments. You did this with the last paragraph, grouping the critics around the shared attribute of gift giving, but while this is a good way to do it, we don't need an entire paragraph of critics saying "Buy this book as a gift", so in addition to grouping by shared attributes, you also have to know when to cite and what to cite, and determine what is important. I think if I put some time into it, I could find a common theme, but honestly this section needs to be rewritten. Focus on the salient aspects of each critic. What is the takeaway, their main point that is relevant to the review? They usually give that away in the title (but not always), so it's generally easy to find. Then find the most important point and try to write it in your own words. It's truly not important to tell us that the book "makes for a fine last-minute present". What is important is to find out why the critic thinks people should buy it. Write about that instead. Bring the reception back on topic to literature, not the marketplace of book buying. Etc.

@Viriditas: My equally long reply:

"I don't know why you keep going down this path/I don't know why you keep coming back to the capitalism thing" Apologies for often getting lost here and there, but given how long your replies are it takes time to do everything at once. At the least I have fixed the beginning of the body by adding the "how our current beliefs about Christmas in the past are based on questionable assumptions" and strengthening the lede's indication that the book is primarily about the history of Christmas, and I had previously fixed the "secular, capitalist society" part to match the book.

For the italics in the infobox: I was following the example at Template:Infobox book.

For contents: I have done all the contents, and specifically: I reworked the contrasting contemporary accounts; and I removed the St. Nicholas poem for feeling out of place. As for "summarizing it explains why "not all were able" to be jolly", all I needed was the work issue.

For reception: Yeah, in hindsight, the holiday present gimmick, while fun, is sadly bad for POV and due weight. I have trimmed half of the quotes and grouped the reception paragraphs by reason and made things more literature-focused, and to make up for the loss in the reviews, I've put the quotes into the notelist.

For lede: I'll look at the book and revamp the contents accordingly.

That reminds me: since the reception was trimmed, I may have to trim the contents section for due weight.

Oh, and one thought I had while fixing your proposed minor changes: per Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know/Archive_202#c-RoySmith-20241101020900-Crisco_1492_mobile-20241101015300 you can make certain minor changes yourself even if you're the reviewer. ミラP@Miraclepine 03:56, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: Okay, I've finished trimming (sorry I had to cut out Swiss German Santi-Claus and the Victorian London comparative accounts) and, since the contents are thematically sorted, I'm not really sure I need to skim the book. Also I reserved this for Christmas Day or Eve. What do you think? ミラP@Miraclepine 00:48, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Since you now have the book, and it will take you 5-10 minutes to skim the book, please do so anyway. Viriditas (talk) 00:51, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: Sure, but there's not gonna be enough room for everything and I might have to trim to make room for more. ミラP@Miraclepine 01:10, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

You can do whatever you want, but that's not what I mean. All I meant was, double-check everything is correct. That's all. Using myself as an example, I often have to double-check and triple-check my work, because errors do inevitably slip in somehow, one way or another. Viriditas (talk) 01:15, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: I've skimmed the whole book and thus did some expansions while balancing due weight with secondary sources. Oh, and I made sure everything in the contents section was accurate in the book. Not to mention the release info I added. ミラP@Miraclepine 03:01, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Question: Why does Picador refer to the book as Christmas: A History with a newer publishing date?[45] Was the book rebranded with a new title a year later? Also, I remember reading that the British edition had more pages. Was there more content? Viriditas (talk) 08:16, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

I checked the History book. On the copyright page it says "Originally published as Christmas: A Biography 2017 by Picador". The newer version was published in November 2018. Viriditas (talk) 08:23, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Which makes no sense given it was reprinted again under the original title in 2019 by Thomas Dunne Books for St. Martin's. I don't know enough about the inner workings of the publishing industry, but this is quite odd and indicates some kind of dispute, IMO. Viriditas (talk) 09:25, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

@Viriditas: FWIW the 2017 publication dates are for the original editions, so these should be enough. So, is this ready for DYK? ミラP@Miraclepine 14:41, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 11

Monica Smit

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• ... that Monica Smit was ordered to pay Victoria Police's legal bill of $250,000 despite winning a lawsuit against them? Source: https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/victoria-antilockdown-activist-wins-court-case-but-forced-to-pay-police-lawyer-fees/78b040a1-e0b9-4593-b168-203de700f70a
  • ALT1: ... that Monica Smit was remanded in custody because she refused to accept bail conditions? Source: https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/freedom-activist-stays-in-custody-after-refusing-to-sign-bail-conditions-20210901-p58nvb.html
  • Reviewed:

Created by TarnishedPath (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

TarnishedPath^talk 06:11, 12 December 2024 (UTC).

Articles created/expanded on December 12

Mahra Al Maktoum

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• ... that Sheikha Mahra Al Maktoum invoked the controversial practice of triple talaq to divorce her husband, which is rarely performed by women against men?

• Source: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/18/middleeast/dubai-princess-announces-divorce-instagram-intl/index.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx92pl0q8evo

• • Reviewed:

Created by Jolielover (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

jolielover♥talk 05:54, 14 December 2024 (UTC).

Articles created/expanded on December 13

Tarif-i Husain Shahi

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• ... that in the illustrated manuscript Tarif-i Husain Shahi, the image of the queen sitting on the king's lap was washed away by her son?

• Source: Michell, George; Zebrowski, Mark (1999-06-10). Architecture and Art of the Deccan Sultanates (PDF). Cambridge University Press. p. 147. Partly scratched away but still visible, perched on the sultan's knee like the consort of a Hindu god, it must be Khanzada Humayun (Fig. 108). The portraits document her rise and fall, for, like the other two Muslim women who managed to rule India, Nur Jahan and Raziya Sultana, her fortunes ultimately suffered a terrible reversal. Painted into the manuscript in 1565, at the height of her influence, her figure must have been removed in 1569, when, after four years of rule as regent, she was imprisoned by her rebellious son, anxious to accede to his father's throne. We further assume that the vandal, not realising that the heroine of the dohada page was also the queen, as the king does not accompany her, left it undisturbed

• Reviewed:
• Comment: Please feel free to make changes to the alt; Its wording seems a bit awkward to me

Created by AmateurHi$torian (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

AmateurHi$torian (talk) 19:05, 13 December 2024 (UTC).

• ALT1 = ... that the illustrated manuscript Tarif-i Husain Shahi contains one of the rare depictions of a queen in Islamic art?" Source: Michell, George; Zebrowski, Mark (1999-06-10). Architecture and Art of the Deccan Sultanates (PDF). Cambridge University Press. p. 145. The text stresses the rule of both Husain and Khanzada Humayun. Such political prominence was rare for women in Islamic society in India and the Middle East, and female portraiture did not exist. Female figures in Persian miniatures are the heroines of poetic romance, not real women. The Tarif proves to be deeply unorthodox and highly significant, for the queen herself appears in six of its twelve illustrations!

Frankfurt silver inscription

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• ... that an antique inscription from Germany has been read by "unrolling" it virtually?

• Source: https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/nation-world/world/article296997439.html

• ALT1: ... that the first known follower of Christianity north of the Alps came from Frankfurt am Main? Source: https://www.jpost.com/archaeology/archaeology-around-the-world/article-833093
• ALT2: ... that a recently discovered amulet may rewrite the history of Christianity? Source: https://greekreporter.com/2024/12/13/early-christian-inscription-northern-europe-rewrite-history/
• ALT3: ... that prior to the recent discovery of an exclusively Christian inscription, all similar examples also invoked Germanic deities? Source: https://www.evangelisch.de/inhalte/237124/11-12-2024/aufregender-fund-frankfurt-geschichte-des-christentums-neu-schreiben
• ALT4: ... that archeologists read an antique inscription from Germany by "unrolling" it virtually? Source: https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/nation-world/world/article296997439.html
• ALT5: ... that an amulet discovered in a Roman cemetery in Germany contains the earliest known written use of the Trisagion? Source: https://www.jpost.com/archaeology/archaeology-around-the-world/article-833093
• Reviewed:
• Comment: This discovery is currently in the news, as it was announced just two days ago. I considered nominating it for WP:ITN, but I think it suites DYK better. Without the qualifier "from Germany" (in main hook and ALT4), readers may assume this to be about the more well known Herculaneum papyri, which were featured in DYK 13 years ago (25 August 2011).

Created by Renerpho (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Renerpho (talk) 18:32, 13 December 2024 (UTC).

• Comment The article by Huld-Zetsche [46] isn't available online (all the other references are). This is actually the exact same source used to create this map. Renerpho (talk) 10:19, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Decolonization is Not a Metaphor

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• ... that the title of a paper calling for the return of the United States to Indigenous sovereignty has become a slogan for pro-Palestinian protestors?

• Source: Combination of Indigenous sovereignty was never ceded, and the continued presence of settlers is essentially illegitimate. [47] and [48] which explains how "Decolonization is Not a Metaphor". The paper itself as a primary source also supports the first part of the hook.

• Reviewed:

Created by Chess (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 05:29, 13 December 2024 (UTC).

Thus far, I have been unable to verify that the paper "calls for the return of the United States to indigenous sovereignty." Neither of the two sources you cite above appear to support the statement, they just say the paper calls for a stricter interpretation of the meaning of the word "decolonization", which is a very different thing. Gatoclass (talk) 22:28, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: That's a very good point. What about "views the United States as fundamentally illegitimate?" Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 22:39, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

Again, you would need a source for that statement. Gatoclass (talk) 22:47, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: This is very verbose, but what about that the title of a paper describing the continued presence of non-indigenous in the United States as being illegitimate has become a slogan for pro-Palestinian protestors? The claim that settler presence in the United States is supported by the source, the only thing I've done is explained "settler" as being "non-Indigenous" because the average person would be more likely to understand that. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 05:46, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Again, a quote from a source confirming the hook statement would be required at minimum. But these suggestions thus far all look a little tortured to me. How about keeping it simple and straightforward, something like:

ALT4: ... that the title of a 2012 academic paper, "Decolonization is Not a Metaphor", has been adopted as a slogan by pro-Palestinian protestors? Gatoclass (talk) 06:20, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: Sure, that works. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 06:22, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Having looked a little more closely at the article, I'm not sure your interpretation of the paper is accurate. Certainly, it's a difficult text to come to grips with - at least for me, as it contains a lot of academic jargon that tends to obscure the authors' meaning to a non-professional in the field. But for example, you state: "Tuck argues that ... because the existence of settlers on stolen land is illegitimate [it] must be redressed by decolonization". Did he really say that? Because I would have thought that if he had, the paper would be more notorious than merely influential. On the other hand, if he is only saying that that's what decolonization must mean, he is simply defining a term rather than arguing in favour of it, and there is a world of difference between the two.

However, since most of the article is sourced directly to the paper itself, without clarifying quotes, it's hard to know whether your interpretation is accurate. I'm not even entirely sure if the paper itself doesn't count as a primary source here, which might also be problematic.

So, is there any chance you could provide some actual quotes from the paper, or better still perhaps, reliable secondary sources that have written about it, in order to clarify the point? Because I think it's obviously an important distinction to get right. Cheers, Gatoclass (talk) 06:54, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

@Gatoclass: The article is far from perfect and I welcome suggestions to improve it as I'm less experienced than I should be with writing from scratch.

I looked into this when you raised it the first time. The closest thing in the text I can find right now is We don’t intend to discourage those who have dedicated careers and lives to teaching themselves and others to be critically conscious of racism, sexism, homophobia, classism, xenophobia, and settler colonialism. We are asking them/you to consider how the pursuit of critical consciousness, the pursuit of social justice through a critical enlightenment, can also be settler moves to innocence - diversions, distractions, which relieve the settler of feelings of guilt or responsibility, and conceal the need to give up land or power or privilege. (emphasis mine)

So, the authors explicitly acknowledge a need for settlers to give up land. Likewise, page 10 of the paper criticizes decolonial scholars that enable "settler moves to innocence". I will likely have to make the article more directly explain what Tuck and Yang said, with better inline citations.

Also, Eve Tuck is a woman with she/her pronouns (at least on her website). Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 07:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 14

History of education in Wales (1939–present)

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• ... that schools in Wales during the Second World War were held in village halls?

• Source: Jones, Gareth Elwyn; Roderick, Gordon Wynne (2003). History of Education in Wales. University of Wales Press. ISBN 978-0708318089. (pages 141–142)

• ALT1: ... that a school in Wales during the Second World War had less than 40% attendance? Source: Keane, Ann; Egen, David; Grigg, Russell; Roy, James; Morgen, Alun; Norris, Barry; Williams, Sian Rhiannon (2022). Watchdogs or Visionaries? Perspectives on the history of the education inspectorate in Wales. University of Wales Press. ISBN 978-1786839404 (pages 104–106).
• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/An Amorous History of the Silver Screen: Shanghai Cinema, 1896–1937
• Comment: Better hook suggestions would be appreciated.

Promoted to GA status by Llewee (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 15 past nominations.

Llewee (talk) 16:54, 15 December 2024 (UTC).

Prisoners of war in World War II

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• ... that according to some estimates, as many as 35 million soldiers became prisoners of war in World War II? Source: https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/244883?journalCode=jmh
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Kim Kitsuragi
  • Comment: 2nd QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/Straight-tusked elephant

5x expanded by Piotrus (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 538 past nominations.

_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:59, 15 December 2024 (UTC).

Daniel J. Malarkey

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• ... that Oregon Senate President, Dan Malarkey, crawled along a ledge on the Oregon State Capitol to access an unsecured window in the governor’s office to place bills on the absent governor’s desk?

• Source: This article if from the Morning Oregonian, dated 25 February 1913; the article begins: "Working their way along a ledge of the capitol building, 20 feet above the ground, President Malarkey closely followed by Chief Clerk Cochran, holding 30 Senate bills … crept carefully to the window opening into the reception chamber of the Governor … both officials entered the Executive chamber and deposited on the Governor’s desk … measures for signature or veto."

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Castilleja chromosa and Template:Did you know nominations/Silicon Island

Created by Orygun (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 122 past nominations.

Orygun (talk) 03:08, 15 December 2024 (UTC).

Castilleja chromosa

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Desert paintbrush, Castilleja chromosa

• ... that the desert paintbrush (pictured) does not have red flowers?
  • ALT1: ... that the bright red "petals" of the desert paintbrush (pictured) are not actually petals? Source: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/55908749#page/10/mode/1up
  • ALT2: ... that the flowers of the desert paintbrush (pictured) are small, green, and unremarkable?
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Happy Feet (penguin)
  • Comment: Will do QPQ shortly.

Converted from a redirect by Cremastra (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 7 past nominations.

Cremastra ‹ u — c › 23:34, 14 December 2024 (UTC).

Article is long enough and new enough; no sourcing, copyright, or content issues were found. Hook has good source and meets length and format criterion. I recommend first hook; ALT1 uses word petals twice...i.e. petals are not petals...interesting perhaps, but also a little confusing. Image is from flickr with only Attribution/ShareAlike restrictions; image attribution is included in upload; rollover tag is good. However, QPQ is not done yet.Orygun (talk) 03:00, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

To editor Orygun: QPQ completed. Cremastra ‹ u — c › 14:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Psychological perspectives on UFO belief

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An illustration of a so-called "alien abduction"

• ... that a study of people who reported alien abduction experiences (illustration, pictured) found that many of them also exhibited characteristics consistent with fantasy-prone personality?

• Source: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1991-27403-001

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/James Mustapic
• Comment: QPQ forthcoming

Created by Chetsford (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 154 past nominations.

Chetsford (talk) 20:57, 14 December 2024 (UTC).

• I will close this in 24 hours if I don't see the required QPQs by then @Chetsford:.--Launchballer 00:02, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, @Chetsford:. We are in backlog mode and so you will need to complete a second QPQ.--Launchballer 16:57, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

The Valiant Girl White Rose

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• ... that the "white rose" in The Valiant Girl White Rose refers to both its star and character, but neither share a name?

• Source: Zhang, Zhen (2005). An Amorous History of the Silver Screen: Shanghai Cinema, 1896–1937. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-226-98238-0.

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Haliey Welch, Template:Did you know nominations/Ratnākara

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 722 past nominations.

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 18:12, 14 December 2024 (UTC).

Alexis Harding

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• ... that a key part of the abstract art practice of Alexis Harding is the chemical incompatibility of the different paints he uses? Source: Microchemical Journal: "The core of his painting practice is the 'chemical incompatibility' between different paints". The Observer: "But the two frontrunners - outright winner Alexis Harding (gloopy abstracts) and runner-up Andrew Grassie (very small tempera studies of interiors) - really do stand out."
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Philly Specials

Moved to mainspace by Jonathan Deamer (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 13 past nominations.

Jonathan Deamer (talk) 15:40, 14 December 2024 (UTC).

• Lead is too short. Cremastra ‹ u — c › 23:36, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks, fixed. Jonathan Deamer (talk) 13:27, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Haliey Welch

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• ... that Haliey Welch earned more than $65,000 within weeks of Hawk tuah going viral?

• Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2024/06/28/hawk-tuah-meme-explained-how-woman-in-viral-interview-made-a-reported-65000-and-prompted-tiktok-craze/

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/hawk-tuah-girl-merch-viral-video-1235047145/

• • Reviewed:
  • Comment: I accidentally made the page on the 11th without realizing that it was not appropriate to do so given the move discussion on the Hawk tuah page, but the discussion has now been closed with strong support for an article about Welch being created.

Converted from a redirect by Jolielover (talk). Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has fewer than 5 past nominations.

jolielover♥talk 09:18, 14 December 2024 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - n

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: None required.

Overall: Article is new enough and long enough. I'm seeing the definition of pump and dump is verbatim from the source, which gives concerns about other close paraphrasing potentially in the article. Please review and attempt to better paraphrase the materials.  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 18:19, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

That definition was already in the pump and dump article, so I took it out myself.--Launchballer 23:55, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

NCAA Season 7 basketball tournaments

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• ... that after a retabulation showed an overtime was needed, Ateneo put its 1930 NCAA basketball championship round game against UST under protest as one of the two referees already left?

• Source: https://gpa.eastview.com/crl/sea/newspapers/trma19301012-01.1.29

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Man Who Knew Too Much (Alexander McQueen collection)

]

• • Comment: Will do the QPQ later on. On the hook, some may confuse this with the American NCAA, and that's the hookiness of it. If any this is clarified on the hook, it will lengthen it, and will defeat the hookiness of it. See also this, and this is something I'd push for in similar DYKs moving forward.

Created by Howard the Duck (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 25 past nominations.

Howard the Duck (talk) 01:07, 14 December 2024 (UTC).

• @Howard the Duck: In case you were not aware: a recent rule change means that QPQs should now be provided at the time of the nomination, and nominations without QPQs are liable to be closed without warning. In addition, as we are currently on backlog mode and you have over 20 nominations, you will need to provide two QPQs instead of the usual one. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:07, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Noted. I'm now on mobile so its quite a pain to edit, but I added one of my QPQ reviews. Howard the Duck (talk) 03:28, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

Articles created/expanded on December 15

Daniel Hermann (humanist)

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• ... that Daniel Hermann wrote poems on, inter alia, the inclusion of a lizard and a frog in a piece of amber, the eagle in the coat of arms of Poland, and a child suffering from the Fraser syndrome? Source: Frisch 2015, p. 49; Lībiete 2019, pp. 279–280; Kreigere-Liepiņa 2016, p. 237.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Richard Stratton (diplomat)
  • Comment: Second QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/The House of Bijapur

Moved to mainspace by Yakikaki (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 145 past nominations.

Yakikaki (talk) 16:13, 15 December 2024 (UTC).

Special occasion holding area

See also: WP:SOHA

The holding area is near the top of the Approved page. Please only place approved templates there; do not place them below.

Do not nominate articles in this section—nominate all articles in the nominations section above, under the date on which the article was created or moved to mainspace, or the expansion began; indicate in the nomination any request for a specially timed appearance on the main page.

Note: Articles intended to be held for special occasion dates should be nominated within seven days of creation, start of expansion, or promotion to Good Article status. The nomination should be made at least one week prior to the occasion date, to allow time for reviews and promotions through the prep and queue sets, but not more than six weeks in advance. The proposed occasion must be deemed sufficiently special by reviewers. The timeline limitations, including the six week maximum, may be waived by consensus, if a request is made at WT:DYK, but requests are not always successful. Discussion clarifying the hold criteria can be found here: Hold criteria; discussion setting the six week limit can be found here: Six week limit.

April Fools' Day hooks are exempted from the timeline limit; see Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Did You Know.