Template talk:Did you know
This page has a backlog that requires the attention of willing editors. Please remove this notice when the backlog is cleared. |
Backlog-mode enabled Please note that DYK is currently in a "backlog-mode". This means that editors who have made at least 20 DYK nominations must review two other DYK nominations (also known as two QPQs) per nomination. For a link to the discussion, please click here. To look up how many DYK nominations you have, please click here. |
There is currently 1 filled queue. Admin assistance in moving preps is requested.
- To discuss the content or layout of the Template:Did you know page itself, go to Wikipedia talk:Did you know.
This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a staging area and then promoted into the Queue. To update this page, it.
Count of DYK Hooks | ||
Section | # of Hooks | # Verified |
---|---|---|
September 27 | 1 | |
September 28 | 1 | |
October 7 | 1 | 1 |
October 8 | 1 | |
October 9 | 1 | |
October 13 | 4 | 1 |
October 15 | 4 | 1 |
October 16 | 2 | 1 |
October 17 | 1 | |
October 18 | 5 | 3 |
October 19 | 3 | 2 |
October 20 | 2 | |
October 22 | 3 | 1 |
October 23 | 2 | 1 |
October 24 | 2 | 1 |
October 25 | 2 | 1 |
October 27 | 1 | |
October 28 | 3 | |
October 30 | 4 | 2 |
October 31 | 7 | 4 |
November 1 | 7 | 5 |
November 2 | 8 | 6 |
November 3 | 10 | 6 |
November 4 | 7 | 4 |
November 5 | 8 | 5 |
November 6 | 3 | 2 |
November 7 | 8 | 5 |
November 8 | 7 | 3 |
November 9 | 6 | 4 |
November 10 | 8 | 4 |
November 11 | 7 | 6 |
November 12 | 4 | 2 |
November 13 | 6 | 1 |
November 14 | 7 | 5 |
November 15 | 9 | 5 |
November 16 | 5 | 3 |
November 17 | 6 | 3 |
November 18 | 15 | 13 |
November 19 | 12 | 5 |
November 20 | 10 | 9 |
November 21 | 13 | 7 |
November 22 | 10 | 5 |
November 23 | 5 | 3 |
November 24 | 2 | |
November 25 | 2 | |
November 26 | 5 | |
November 27 | 4 | |
November 28 | 2 | |
November 29 | 5 | |
November 30 | 3 | |
December 1 | 6 | |
December 2 | 5 | |
December 3 | 4 | |
December 4 | 3 | |
December 5 | 1 | |
Total | 273 | 130 |
Last updated 08:00, 5 December 2024 UTC Current time is 09:06, 5 December 2024 UTC [refresh] |
Instructions for nominators
editIf this is your first nomination, please read the DYK rules before continuing. Further information can be found at the DYK guidelines.
Frequently asked questions
editHow do I write an interesting hook?
Successful hooks tend to have several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.
When will my nomination be reviewed?
This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below). Because of WP:DYKTIMEOUT, a nomination should be reviewed within two months since the reviewer/promoter may agree to reject and close an unpromoted hook after that time has passed.
Where is my hook?
If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.
If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.
Instructions for reviewers
editAny editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.
To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:
- Look through this page, Template talk:Did you know, to find a nomination you would like to comment on.
- Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
- The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
- To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:
If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a lineArticle length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.
:* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING :* -->
showing you where you should put the comment. - Save the page.
- After the nomination is approved, a bot will automatically list the nomination page on Template talk:Did you know/Approved.
If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.
Advanced procedures
editHow to promote an accepted hook
editAt-a-glance instructions on how to promote an approved hook to a prep area
|
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For more information, please see T:TDYK#How to promote an accepted hook. |
Handy copy sources:
To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]
How to remove a rejected hook
edit- Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
- In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line
{{DYKsubpage
with{{subst:DYKsubpage
, and replace|passed=
with|passed=no
. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.
How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue
edit- Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
- Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
- View the edit history for that page
- Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
- Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
- Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
- If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.
How to move a nomination subpage to a new name
edit- Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page. did you know, e.g that king jaja opobo was a great warrior, who fought the Ashanti the war in Ghana, a war the British could not accomplished.
Nominations
editOlder nominations
editArticles created/expanded on September 27
editPhoebe Plummer
... that during Phoebe Plummer's May 2024 jury trial over a climate protest, the court finished early on several days due to the heat? Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/15/uk-climate-activists-convicted-in-first-trial-of-new-anti-protest-lawsALT1: ... that an October 2022 protest involving Just Stop Oil member Phoebe Plummer inspired many activists worldwide to throw food at paintings? Source: https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/11/17/just-stop-oil-phoebe-plummer-prison/- ALT2: ... that when Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland faced trial over the Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest, they were "unfortunate" to draw Christopher Hehir as judge? Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/30/just-stop-oil-soup-throwing-protests-moral-toddlerhood/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Zero-emission zone in Oxford, Template:Did you know nominations/CyberJoly Drim, Template:Did you know nominations/Ajah Pritchard-Lolo, Template:Did you know nominations/Alison Creagh
- Comment: Plummer was created 27 September, though I did a 5x expansion on 2 October, added Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest three days later, added Christopher Hehir two days after that, and added Holland on 5 November.
Launchballer 03:13, 2 October 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Ooh, a quadruple hook. All of the articles are new enough, long enough, and well cited. There are a few places where phrasing could be a bit more neutral (I feel like inspired would be better than empowered, for example), but those may also be stylstic considerations. Earwig isn't happy, but it's the large block quote that speaks to Plummer's inspiration in that instance. Ideally Hehir's article would have a bit more on his early life, but if the sources aren't talking about it, rather difficult. (Minor quibble: the source says "unfortunately" rather than "unfortunate", but I think it works here). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- This has been sitting near the top of Approved for over a week. What else do I have to do to get this promoted? (For the record, I believe "unfortunately" --> "unfortunate" is covered by MOS:SIC.)--Launchballer 02:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Not entirely sure that Holland in particular meets the independent notability standards of WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- She's a lot more borderline than Plummer, I'll admit that. From memory, there's significant coverage of her role in Politico at least and this Prospect piece was what clinched it for me, but I will of course take another look later.--Launchballer 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- Since we are dealing with a BLP, I think we should veer on the side of safety as described in WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- I've had another look and I believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL#unusual crime.--Launchballer 00:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'll wait for another promoter's opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29: This nomination is over two months old. I still believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL, but is it worth posting at WT:DYK (though arguably this'll get another review when it's queued anyway)?--Launchballer 14:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, why not? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Posted there.--Launchballer 03:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, why not? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29: This nomination is over two months old. I still believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL, but is it worth posting at WT:DYK (though arguably this'll get another review when it's queued anyway)?--Launchballer 14:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'll wait for another promoter's opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I've had another look and I believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL#unusual crime.--Launchballer 00:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Since we are dealing with a BLP, I think we should veer on the side of safety as described in WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- She's a lot more borderline than Plummer, I'll admit that. From memory, there's significant coverage of her role in Politico at least and this Prospect piece was what clinched it for me, but I will of course take another look later.--Launchballer 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- Not entirely sure that Holland in particular meets the independent notability standards of WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
I have started an AfD. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:29, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nomination must go on hold until the AfD finishes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:38, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on September 28
editOld City of Gaza, Old City of Nablus
- ... that both the Old City of Gaza (pictured) and the Old City of Nablus have been repeatedly damaged by Israeli invasion and bombardment?
- Source:
Awad, Jihad (2017-01-15). "Conserving the Palestinian Architectural Heritage". International Journal of Heritage Architecture: Studies, Repairs and Maintenance. 1 (3): 454. doi:10.2495/ha-v1-n3-451-460. ISSN 2058-833X.The old city of Nablus has suffered, probably more than any other Palestinian city, from the massive invasion by Israeli forces during the second uprising which started in 2000. Many restoration projects were previously completed by the municipality but unfortunately destroyed by the Israeli bombing of the old city. Many buildings were heavily damaged by Israeli rockets during April 2002. A project was carried out by UNDP and funded by the Japanese government to rebuild the houses. Then in December of 2003, many houses were again damaged during Israeli military activity. This kept recurring: buildings were repaired and then damaged.
Mraffko, Clothilde; Forey, Samuel (2024-02-14). "Israeli bombs are wiping out Gaza's heritage and history". Le Monde.fr. Retrieved 2024-09-29.Whether the Israelis act intentionally or not, "the result is effectively the erasure of a heritage and a history. Symbolically, this is important because this is one of the ways in which people are attached to their territory," warned Benoît Tadié, former cultural adviser to the French consulate general in Jerusalem between 2009 and 2013. He takes as an example the Old City of Gaza, which, like much of the north of the enclave, is now a vast field of ruins. "It wasn't just a site, it was also the heart of today's city. The hammam and the Pacha's Palace were extremely popular places. The museum also served as a place of education for schoolchildren," explained Tadié.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Abdul Ahad Azad and Template:Did you know nominations/Sun Jianai
Onceinawhile (talk) 09:57, 29 September 2024 (UTC).
- @Onceinawhile: Not a review, but there are massive amounts of unsourced content in both articles and "International Journal of Heritage Architecture: Studies, Repairs and Maintence" is coming up as deprecated/predatory on WP:UPSD. What makes it reliable?--Launchballer 22:24, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Launchballer. All the sources are in the bibliography - let me add in-line citations throughout where they have been missed. I will confirm when done.
- On the Jihad Awad source, I am confident that it is reliable - Professor Awad is
full professor of architecture, currently head of architecture department at Ajman University
, and this paper (a conference submission) is cited in his official University biography page. He subsequently published an article covering a similar topic here. The statement is not difficult to source elsewhere if needed. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:05, 30 September 2024 (UTC)- Fine by me. Full review needed.--Launchballer 03:19, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
WIT Press conferences are scams. That source must absolutely be replaced. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 00:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Onceinawhile: Please address the above.--Launchballer 00:18, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Launchballer thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have removed the source referred to above and replaced it with this: Abujidi, Nurhan; Verschure, Han (2006-07-01). "Military Occupation as Urbicide by Construction and Destruction: The Case of Nablus, Palestine". The Arab World Geographer. 9 (2). Allen Press: 206. ISSN 1480-6800.
Given the large number of frequent Israeli army invasions of the Old Town, the so called Operation Defensive Shield in April 2002 is considered the heaviest single operation. It caused damage to 47.5% of the housing blocks that structure the Old Town's urban fabric… During other invasions, a shift in the mechanism and location of destruction is evident. Highly focused, limited-scale demolitions targeting specific sections of the city were identified. The size and scale of destruction are not always determined by the type of invasion. For example, the scale of destruction resulting from the overnight incursion of January 2005 was larger than that of the short-term invasion of January 2004, which lasted 10 days. Moreover, a repeated rhythm in invading and destroying the same buildings during the several invasions was registered over the past four years, with each invasion accompanied by destruction, looting, and vandalism.
- Onceinawhile (talk) 23:02, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- That's fine. I still see unsourced content in both the articles though.--Launchballer 11:53, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks @Launchballer: I added the remaining sources. Both articles are ready for a full review.Onceinawhile (talk) 14:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- You're just in time, I was about to mark this for closure! I will review this within the next 24 hours.--Launchballer 14:28, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Long enough, new enough. I don't see any reason why this might deserve a maintenance template, and the hook checks out and the QPQ is done. This is fine, although I would invite promoters to read Wikipedia talk:Did you know/Archive 203#Negative Israel hooks.--Launchballer 11:30, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- You're just in time, I was about to mark this for closure! I will review this within the next 24 hours.--Launchballer 14:28, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks @Launchballer: I added the remaining sources. Both articles are ready for a full review.Onceinawhile (talk) 14:27, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- That's fine. I still see unsourced content in both the articles though.--Launchballer 11:53, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Launchballer thank you for bringing this to my attention. I have removed the source referred to above and replaced it with this: Abujidi, Nurhan; Verschure, Han (2006-07-01). "Military Occupation as Urbicide by Construction and Destruction: The Case of Nablus, Palestine". The Arab World Geographer. 9 (2). Allen Press: 206. ISSN 1480-6800.
- @Onceinawhile: Please address the above.--Launchballer 00:18, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
@Onceinawhile, Launchballer, AirshipJungleman29, Gatoclass, and Chipmunkdavis: I've reopened this following discussion at [1] there was a bit of disagreement, but IMHO the article does not satisfy WP:DYKCOMPLETE, and CMD notes that the hook fact is not directly mentioned either. — Amakuru (talk) 21:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Amakuru: understood and thanks for this. I agree with you, and was thinking about this history section when drafting and reviewing. From memory, the chosen areas of history followed the Arabic article versions. It's a difficult balance, faced by all our Old City and Historic district articles, as we don't want to duplicate the entire pre-modern history section of the much more fulsome main articles. Most such articles provide a light overview of the history, and instead focus on the cultural and architectural legacy.
- I will have a go at building out - grateful for your comments. Onceinawhile (talk) 07:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Onceinawhile: thanks. I do know what you mean... It's tricky to know how to balance content across intertwined topics. In theory each article is standalone, but we don't want redundancy all the same. A broad-bush overview of the major points across the centuries would be sufficient here anyway. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 08:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Onceinawhile: The nomination has already timed out as of today, so if the issues can't be addressed promptly then unfortunately the nomination will be closed as unsuccessful. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Narutolovehinata5: thanks for the ping. I finished Amakuru’s suggested improvements at Old City of Gaza two days ago, and have just finished at Old City of Nablus. Perhaps Amakuru could take a quick look and confirm if any further comments or changes are needed? Onceinawhile (talk) 09:00, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Onceinawhile: The nomination has already timed out as of today, so if the issues can't be addressed promptly then unfortunately the nomination will be closed as unsuccessful. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:02, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Onceinawhile: thanks. I do know what you mean... It's tricky to know how to balance content across intertwined topics. In theory each article is standalone, but we don't want redundancy all the same. A broad-bush overview of the major points across the centuries would be sufficient here anyway. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 08:08, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 8
editDiane Leather
- ... that Diane Leather was the first woman to run a mile in under five minutes?
Oldelpaso (talk) 22:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC).
- Can we do better than this? If any woman has run the mile in under 5 minutes, someone had to be the first, and the hook doesn't provide any more information. (t · c) buidhe 23:51, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you saying a world record isn't notable and/or hook worthy? Or are you asking for more context such as a link to Mile run world record progression? I was trying to keep the hook as succinct as possible. Oldelpaso (talk) 02:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Another issue is that the hook proposed is a "first" hook, which per WP:DYKHOOK usually needs exceptionally strong sourcing given the exceptional claim involved (how are we sure that no other woman before Leather ran a mile in under five minutes?) Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- The article includes cites describing her in those terms from the World Athletics website (the organisation that ratifies world records in the discipline, formerly known as the IAAF)[2], the BBC [3], Guardian [4], NYT [5], Washington Post [6] and others. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- I could work in some reference to Roger Bannister in the hook, as his far more well-known first sub-four minute mile occurred the same month and thus they are frequently compared, but I'd rather not. It was how overlooked Leather's achievement was compared to the male equivalent that prompted me to expand the article in the first place! Oldelpaso (talk) 21:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Another issue is that the hook proposed is a "first" hook, which per WP:DYKHOOK usually needs exceptionally strong sourcing given the exceptional claim involved (how are we sure that no other woman before Leather ran a mile in under five minutes?) Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you saying a world record isn't notable and/or hook worthy? Or are you asking for more context such as a link to Mile run world record progression? I was trying to keep the hook as succinct as possible. Oldelpaso (talk) 02:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- ... ALT1 ... that Diane Leather's records for the mile in 1953 and 1954 were labelled "world best" rather than "world record" because the distance was not officially recognised for women until 1967? @Oldelpaso, Narutolovehinata5, and Buidhe: See source here. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 00:32, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- A bit of a late comment, but ALT1 is probably a lot better because it's not a "first" hook and is thus more likely to be accurate. Plus it's also arguably more intriguing than a simple "first" hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing the hook fact in the quoted source. I didn't see the phrase "World best" at all on the cited page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Oldelpaso: Please address the above. For the record, I'd truncate ALT1 at "world record".--Launchballer 00:58, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- There are multiple sentences or paragraphs where the sourcing is unclear. Please see the {{citation needed}} tags added. Also, it appears that this article has not yet had a full review. Does any other user commenting here intend to? Flibirigit (talk) 22:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 9
editMusa al-Gharbi
- ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued since the 2016 election of Donald Trump that media outlets including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC have failed to understand his supporters?
- Source: "For the past four years, Al-Gharbi tried to tell anyone who would listen that Trump supporters did not in fact fit the sociological profile offered on The New York Times opinion page or on MSNBC’s nightly pearl-clutching roundtables." Tablet
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/School lunch in Japan
- Comment: A bit late of a nomination. Thank you Oganguly for your help! I would like this to run on 6 November, the day after the US Presidential election.
Thriley (talk) 07:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: Thank you Thriley, for this. I will post a detailed review tomorrow. Regards, Aafi (talk) 18:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Thriley, Here follows the review:
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting: - ?
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Regards, Aafi (talk) 15:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
Although all checks are okay, I am not happy with how the proposed hook is worded? 183 characters is quite close to 200. Could you please suggest a few more hooks? Regards, Aafi (talk) 15:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Thriley: Please address the above.--Launchballer 12:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
@Aafi: is there something wrong with the hook aside from its length? Thriley (talk) 17:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- At a glance, I'd lose "including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC" and "since the 2016 election of Donald Trump" for concision, obviously replacing "his" with "Donald Trump's". (I wouldn't wikilink "his supporters" per MOS:EGG.)--Launchballer 21:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Aafi, Thriley, and Launchballer: Any updates on this one? This nomination is nearing two months old. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 19:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1 ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that since the 2016 presidential election media outlets including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump? Thriley (talk) 19:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:DYKTRIM, I was thinking along the lines of ALT1a: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?.--Launchballer 22:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am good with Launchballer proposed Alt1a, if Thriley doesn't have any objections to this, I would be glad to pass this one. Regards, Aafi (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Alt1a is not accurate. He is calling out specific media outlets. Thriley (talk) 12:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- What if we tweak it to something like, "several media outlets", which could make the case easily? Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1b: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that several media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?--Launchballer 12:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- This hook is too broad. He is specifically calling out liberal media outlets. Thriley (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- The source doesn't mention that either The New York Times or MSNBC are liberal and I think their leanings are extraneous and would qualify for trimming.--Launchballer 03:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Right. I would also suggest removing the image until we have permissions. Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Both of the outlets are part of the class of "symbolic capitalists" al-Gharbi describes in his book. To specify the outlets is essential. There's probably a better hook I can come up with. Will add it in the next 12 hours. Thriley (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Right. I would also suggest removing the image until we have permissions. Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- The source doesn't mention that either The New York Times or MSNBC are liberal and I think their leanings are extraneous and would qualify for trimming.--Launchballer 03:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- This hook is too broad. He is specifically calling out liberal media outlets. Thriley (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1b: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that several media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?--Launchballer 12:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- What if we tweak it to something like, "several media outlets", which could make the case easily? Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Alt1a is not accurate. He is calling out specific media outlets. Thriley (talk) 12:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am good with Launchballer proposed Alt1a, if Thriley doesn't have any objections to this, I would be glad to pass this one. Regards, Aafi (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:DYKTRIM, I was thinking along the lines of ALT1a: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?.--Launchballer 22:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 13
editElin Falk
- ... that Elin Falk revolutionised the teaching of gymnastics in Swedish schools in the early twentieth century?
- Reviewed:
MumphingSquirrel (talk) 21:01, 17 October 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral: - Edits needed, article in wikivoice praises the subject at various points
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
- Other problems: - Use of primary sources might be an issue
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting: - discuss, please offer an ALT or two
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
---|
|
QPQ: None required. |
Overall: Great to see this article. I have questions about the choice and use of some sources. I think these can all be corrected, and some discussion may be beneficial. ProfGray (talk) 19:45, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hook: "revolutionised" seems laudatory and afaik that word is not in the source; "reform" is used and seems more NPOV. Would help to have a hook that says something about the reforms, such as from a military to a more playful style. Or about how the reforms were met with anger and condemnation.
- Posture not mentioned in source cited, but perhaps "correcting body position" is meant?
- Primary sources are at current footnotes #1, #4. And #7 is by the subject herself. #2 unclear. Second opinion would be helpful here.
- Source #5 links to a WP article IINM, seems to need correction.
- It'd be helpful to find more independent sources about her.
- Overly praising POV includes: "Like so many innovative thinkers, Falk met opposition in her lifetime, with full recognition and appreciation," "Newspapers became involved, publishing condemnation of the exercises without having read about them, let alone tried them" (i.e., critical of her critics), praising: "was as critical of herself as of others, jetisoning any of her ideas which did not work as she had hoped," ProfGray (talk) 20:11, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- @MumphingSquirrel: Please address the above.--Launchballer 12:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
Hi, I've been gradually working through the points above, editied the text and linked #5 to where it should have gone. Added a number of academic references. Alternative hook below. Let me know if you think anything further needs to be done. Thanks for helful pointers. ALT1: ... that Elin Falk caused a national controversy in 1913 with her suggestions for reforming how gymnastics was taught in Swedish schools? MumphingSquirrel (talk) 18:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Anastasia Somoza
- ... that as a nine-year-old, disability rights advocate Anastasia Somoza lobbied U.S president Bill Clinton for her twin sister to be allowed to join her in a mainstream classroom? Source: Desert News
Innisfree987 (talk) 09:30, 13 October 2024 (UTC).
- Article is new enough, long enough, and within policy. No copyright violation detected. The hook however is not usable. “Mainstreaming” is an American special education term that only educators from the United States and American parents of special needs students are likely to be familiar with. As such it fails WP:DYKCRIT/ WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE for requiring specialized knowledge and not targeting a global audience. Additionally it is not at all clear the twin sisters are themselves disabled so the hook even to an American audience is confusing. We need a different hook.4meter4 (talk) 17:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hm, I am not in either of the groups you view as the only ones who know this term… Innisfree987 (talk) 22:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ok. I still think it is a term not familiar to most people and requires specialized knowledge.4meter4 (talk) 22:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm from England and we use it over here. I think this passes WP:DYKINT.--Launchballer 12:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Philippines here and while I do agree the use of "mainstream" is rather specialist (and I'm not sure if we use that word in that sense here), the context should be rather clear given the earlier mention of "mainstream". It's possible a different word to "mainstream" could be used, but the intended meaning seems accurate at least. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ok. I still think it is a term not familiar to most people and requires specialized knowledge.4meter4 (talk) 22:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Given, my difference of opinion with two editors, I will allow a new editor to review this.4meter4 (talk) 15:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Would changing "mainstream" to "normal" or "regular" address concerns, or are such terms considered loaded or pejorative in this context? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:11, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, even if you don't understand the precise technical meaning of "mainstream", I think from context it's clear that the sister is educated separately and the subject is fighting that. Would it help to have the hook say "her special needs sister" to provide additional context? I think "normal" or "regular" comes off pejorative in this context. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Nazi crimes against children
- ... that Nazi crimes against children resulted in over two million victims, from actions such as euthanasia to kidnapping and mass murder? Source: 2m estimate from cited book Lukas (1994). For other keywords, see academic sources cited in relevant sections
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:09, 13 October 2024 (UTC).
- Hellow Piotrus, review is as follows: article created within 7 days of nomination, hook is good, article is well-written, QPQ done, offline source accepted in good faith. Nihil obstat. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 02:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Piotrus, I don't think this meets WP:DYKCOMPLETE, it seems generally focused on Poland. I would expect more coverage of children from other occupied territories too. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:42, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29: I thought it was generally focused on euthanasia (of disabled or sick children)? About half of the article is about that, Poland is primarily covered under shorter 'collective punishment'. Based on sources I found this seems to be due, and I think I link to all subarticles. Based on my lit review for this (note I am not aiming to get this to GA, too depressing) the sources focus primarily on euthanasia, with plight of Jewish and Polish children discussed by fewer sources; anything else seems to be pretty fringe (or at least, I did not find any sources focusing on other topics, nor Wikipedia articles to summarize in relevant subcategories). PS. I see there was also one more paragraph mostly about Poland in 'other crimes', but I stand by my view that this reflects what the sources say. That said, I realized I forgot to write up about Nazi child soldiers - I've added a paragraph. I expect more could be said, but this seems very poorly researched; it took me half an hour before I found a reliable source with some data on this (I couldn't even locate a single academic article that would cover this...). PS. I've added a bit more content, mostly about non-Polish topics. I expect more could be added, but I cannot locate sources (for example, surely Nazis used collective punishment in USSR and murdered children there, but I am unable to locate any work covering this - perhaps it requires a Russian speaker to query Russian or other Cyrillic sources). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Piotrus, I don't think this meets WP:DYKCOMPLETE, it seems generally focused on Poland. I would expect more coverage of children from other occupied territories too. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:42, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 15
editCommon fixed point problem
- ... that in 1967, two mathematicians published PhD dissertations independently disproving the same thirteen-year-old conjecture?
- Source: "The purpose of this paper is to answer Dyer's question in the negative by the construction of a pair of commuting functions which have no fixed point in common. [...] This paper is a condensation of the author's 1967 doctoral dissertation", from a paper by Boyce . "It has been conjectured that any two continuous functions f, g mapping the closed unit interval into itself which commute under composition [...] must have a common fixed point [...] Chapter 2 defines a pair of functions which show that the conjecture is false", from Huneke's 1967 PhD dissertation.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: If the reviewer doesn't have ProQuest access, I can provide a copy of Huneke's dissertation over email.
jlwoodwa (talk) 19:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC).
- Starting review...
- Article is new enough and long enough
- Sources all appear to be WP:RS and for the most part, adequately cited with in-line citations. There are however two {{citation needed}} tags which need to be addressed.
- Earwig calls out a few phrases here and there but they all look like technical terms which can't be rephrased, so no problems there.
- Extra brownie points for taking an exceptionally technical article and writing a hook which will appeal to most readers. RoySmith (talk) 22:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
@Jlwoodwa: just want to make sure you saw this. RoySmith (talk) 01:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith: Thanks for the ping. I've removed the first statement tagged with {{citation needed}} (since WillisBlackburn said on the talk page that it turned out to be false), and added a citation for the other statement. jlwoodwa (talk) 01:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this closer, I see that there's still some statements that need citations. I've added some more {{citation needed}} tags. My apologies for not picking up on this the first time. RoySmith (talk) 02:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jlwoodwa: please see the above. RoySmith (talk) 14:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like the claim in the hook is sourced to the dissertations themselves, so there's no source actually saying they were independent, which sounds like a WP:SYNTH problem to me. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 11:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Secondary sources agree that Boyce and Huneke came up with their solutions independently. For example, from the Brown article: "It seems appropriate that a question that independently occurred to more than one person should have been answered independently by two people." The McDowell article: "The Dyer/Shields/Dubins/Isbell conjecture (hereafter referred to as the common fixed-point conjecture) was independently settled in the negative by William M. Boyce [7] and Huneke [22] in 1967." The McCrosky dissertation: "Finally, in 1967, the unit interval was shown to not have the common fixed point property by two men working independently on their dissertations." And of course Huneke's published paper (separate from his disseration) says "Simultaneous to and independent of the author's preceding work, W. M. Boyce [1], [2] constructed essentially the same solution." WillisBlackburn (talk) 22:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like the claim in the hook is sourced to the dissertations themselves, so there's no source actually saying they were independent, which sounds like a WP:SYNTH problem to me. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 11:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jlwoodwa: please see the above. RoySmith (talk) 14:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this closer, I see that there's still some statements that need citations. I've added some more {{citation needed}} tags. My apologies for not picking up on this the first time. RoySmith (talk) 02:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Ratnākara
- ...
that Ratnākara may have invented the poetic device of vakrokti ("verbal distortion")?
- Source: Bronner and McCrea 2001 439–440.
ALT1: ... that Ratnākara's Vakroktipañcāśikā contains fifty verses of dialogue between Śiva and Pārvatī, employing the poetic device of vakrokti ("verbal distortion")?ALT2: ... that a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir, covering two "gaps" in Kalhaṇa's Rājataraṅginī, is attributed to Ratnākara?- Reviewed:
TryKid [dubious – discuss] 07:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC).
- A new hook with additional context might be needed here, as the typical reader might not understand the intended meaning of the hook. Essentially, it might not meet WP:DYKINT, specifically the part about specialist knowledge. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5:, I've expanded the hook to make it clearer, and added two alternative hooks. I have no significant preference for any of them over others; feel free to chose any or suggest improvements if this is still unsatisfactory. I could add a note in the article explaining vakrokti in detail if current wording feels too confusing. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 10:17, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- It might be better to just focus on ALT2 as ALT1 still seems to rely on specialist knowledge and not something that's self-evident from a reading. ALT2 is still slightly specialist but it's at least more understandable. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
The nominator has been given well over a month to propose a usable hook. The current hooks require specialized knowledge and fail the WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE guideline. Given how much time has passed since this issue was pointed out by Narutolovehinata5 to TryKid, it is time to pass on this nomination.4meter4 (talk) 18:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- 4meter4, my understanding was that Narutolovehinata5 had passed on the review for someone else to do it, not that I was being asked to make a new hook! That's not what I expected "Symbol redirect vote 4" to mean. It's fine if it's too late to salvage this, but Narutolovehinata5 and other reviewers, please be clearer about this stuff, and clearly state what is expected from the nominators. TryKid [dubious – discuss] 18:44, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid I'm happy to hold off on a rejection if you still wish to try and propose a usable hook. Narutolovehinata5 has raised a WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE objection, which I agree with. You need to propose a hook that anyone can understand which means contextualizing the term "Ratnākara" (most people won't know what or who this is; ie its not clear this is even a person in the current hooks). I also would avoid using too many foreign language terms or names. "Kalhaṇa's Rājataraṅginī" for example will have no obvious context or meaning to the average English speaking person. You need to try and find a hook fact that someone who knows nothing about India or its history or its literature or its languages can understand. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid here is an example of a hook that would be understandable to an English reader: ...that the poet Ratnākara is credited with authoring a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir that fulfills two gaps in the historical chronicle of the north-western part of Indian sub-continent? Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- 4meter4, I thank you for the suggestion, and for allowing the nom more time despite the initial miscommunication. How about
ALT 0a: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "willful misconstrucal" (vakrokti)? - I understand it's not immediately clear what "willful misconstrucal" is to a non-specialist audience, but it would be something that draws the audience in, rather than all of the interesting information being in the hook. The phrase is from the Bronner and McCrea, p.436: "This device, vakrokti – “verbal perversion” or, more literally, “distortive-talk” – is traditionally defined as one speaker’s willful misconstrual of what has been said by another."
- If this still fails the "specialised knowledge" criterion, feel free to reject the nomination as you initially intended, I can't really think of anything much better. Articles like this might not be cut-out for DYK. There's a "longest extant Sanskrit mahākāvya" hook, but that already ran with Haravijaya itself. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 20:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid I think it reads weirdly but a slight modification based on that quote would be better:
ALT 0b: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal perversion" (vakrokti)?I think this is hookier because the language is much more provocative. It will grab a reader's attention.4meter4 (talk) 21:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)- @4meter4 I don't think putting up suggestive stuff or innuendos even in a "bait and switch" contexts is a good DYK practice. Any of the other phrases from the paper—distortive talk, willful misconstrucal, intentional misinterpretation, verbal distortion—would be better. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 21:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid That's fair. Based on that I think this would work: ALT 0c: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal distortion" (vakrokti)?
- I am going to have another editor look at this alt since arguably I helped write Alt Oc.4meter4 (talk) 21:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @4meter4 I don't think putting up suggestive stuff or innuendos even in a "bait and switch" contexts is a good DYK practice. Any of the other phrases from the paper—distortive talk, willful misconstrucal, intentional misinterpretation, verbal distortion—would be better. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 21:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid I think it reads weirdly but a slight modification based on that quote would be better:
- 4meter4, I thank you for the suggestion, and for allowing the nom more time despite the initial miscommunication. How about
- @TryKid here is an example of a hook that would be understandable to an English reader: ...that the poet Ratnākara is credited with authoring a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir that fulfills two gaps in the historical chronicle of the north-western part of Indian sub-continent? Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid I'm happy to hold off on a rejection if you still wish to try and propose a usable hook. Narutolovehinata5 has raised a WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE objection, which I agree with. You need to propose a hook that anyone can understand which means contextualizing the term "Ratnākara" (most people won't know what or who this is; ie its not clear this is even a person in the current hooks). I also would avoid using too many foreign language terms or names. "Kalhaṇa's Rājataraṅginī" for example will have no obvious context or meaning to the average English speaking person. You need to try and find a hook fact that someone who knows nothing about India or its history or its literature or its languages can understand. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Just need an editor to approve of Alt Oc.4meter4 (talk) 21:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT0c fails WP:DYKDEFINITE as it is not a definite fact and would require attribution anyway.--Launchballer 12:13, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Launchballer, are attributed statments allowed on DYK? How about ALT 0d: ... that according to Yigal Bronner and Lawrence McCrea, the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal distortion" (vakrokti)?
- Alternatively, a simpler version of alt2: ALT2b: ... that a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir is attributed to the author Ratnākara?
- Even ALT1b: ... that the Sanskrit-language poem Vakroktipañcāśikā, authored by Ratnākara, employs the poetic device of "willful misconstrucal"? I believe these should be understandable by a lay Western audience. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 16:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
2018 Batman by-election
- ... that at the 2018 Batman by-election, the Division of Batman was politically divided by the "hipster-proof fence" or "quinoa curtain"?
- ALT1: ... that the 2018 Batman by-election caused significant in-fighting within the Australian Greens that damaged their campaign at the 2018 Victorian state election? Source: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-29/greens-blame-internal-problems-negative-media-for-election-loss/10950124
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Bill Morrow (Australian politician)
GraziePrego (talk) 03:11, 15 October 2024 (UTC).
- Not a reivew, however an alternative hook:
- ALT2: ... that during the 2018 Batman by-election campaign Teresa van Lieshout, a perennial candidate, taped their mouth shut and picketed a candidates' forum when she wasn't invited? Source: https://www.northweststar.com.au/story/5269156/batman-by-election-candidates-speak-out/
TarnishedPathtalk 06:38, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Another alt hook suggestion, for maximum quirkiness:
- ALT3: ... that Batman had a "hipster-proof fence"? Source: [7]
— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 21:16, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Vigilantcosmicpenguin your suggested alt isn't supported by the source you gave, however it is supported by https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-17/voters-head-to-polls-for-batman-byelection/9553388. @GraziePrego, what do you think of the suggested alts? Also it appears that you need to do QPQ for one review. TarnishedPathtalk 05:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- I would be happy with either of the suggested Alt hooks, I think I'm happy to let a reviewer choose between them and the original ones I suggested. I have also done a QPQ by reviewing the DYK for Bill Morrow (Australian politician). GraziePrego (talk) 07:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Vigilantcosmicpenguin your suggested alt isn't supported by the source you gave, however it is supported by https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-17/voters-head-to-polls-for-batman-byelection/9553388. @GraziePrego, what do you think of the suggested alts? Also it appears that you need to do QPQ for one review. TarnishedPathtalk 05:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- My apologies, I'm new to this and wasn't reading all of the nomination. TarnishedPathtalk 03:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
This nomination has not yet received a full review. Flibirigit (talk) 18:32, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 16
editLyncoya Jackson
- ... that the adoption of a Muscogee orphan Lyncoya by Andrew Jackson (pictured) was framed by Jackson's political allies as a defense against charges that Jackson was a bloodthirsty Indian killer?
- Reviewed: Hyborian War
KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC).
- TYSM for the nice nomination KAVEBEAR! I am here at everybody's convenience for comments questions revisions etc. Cheers, jengod (talk) 03:23, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Source for this hook: "For Jackson and his supporters, however, Lyncoya remained Jackson's "benevolent object." By telling the story of Lyncoya's adoption, they tried to craft Jackson into more than a military general who had slaughtered Indigenous peoples." From doi:10.18130/V3Q364 Rachel Jackson and the Search for Zion, 1760s-1830s, Gismondi, Melissa, University of Virginia, p. 152 jengod (talk) 00:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- Public domain image that's not too trauma-porn, just FYI --> File:Images from Pictorial Life of Andrew Jackson 1847 by John Frost illustrated by William Croome 04.jpg jengod (talk) 04:04, 18 October 2024 (UTC)
- ALT0a ... that the adoption of a Muscogee orphan by Andrew Jackson (pictured), was framed by his political allies as a defense against charges that he was a bloodthirsty Indian killer?
Proposed a shorter wording for the original hook. This nomination still needs a full review. Flibirigit (talk) 19:16, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- shorter wording ALT0a looks great to me. TY! jengod (talk) 00:20, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- New and long enough at nomination time. No concerns about sourcing. Earwig flags quotes, but nothing else. That being said, I am concerned about the extent of the quoting in the article. DYKchecker says the article is 2754 words, not counting the block quotes (~2300 if you discount the lead). When you strip out the lengthy inline quotes, it drops to ~1800 words (~1400 without the lead). That's a solid 30% of the article (40% without the lead). Quoting to this extent verges on a copyright issue; even ignoring that, it isn't in line with MOS:QUOTE, which says overuse of quotations isn't encyclopedic writing. At a glance, much of it could be easily paraphrased.This isn't a DYK issue, but there is also extensive WP:SANDWICHing of text between images, which makes the block quoting even worse, visually. The newspaper articles should be removed; we're not supposed to include the full text of lengthy primary sources. The plant and the tornado should also be removed as irrelevant. The remaining images should be assessed for placement once that's sorted out.With apologies, on the basis of the quoting issues, I don't think this is ready for DYK right now. I have not yet assessed the hook, but I will if the rest is resolved. Courtesy pinging creator Jengod & nominator KAVEBEAR to advise. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:27, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Just to clarify I am not the creator I just expanded it in passing. I have cut some of the images and am working on summarizing all quotes from secondary sources. That said, I agree this article is not ready for the main page. Going into our holiday season, it might be a while before it's up to par. Could we close this nomination for now? Maybe we can revisit sometime next year when it's been further revised and had time to "mature" and develop the deeper flavors. Like good stew! Thanks to everyone engaging with it. You're all lovely. jengod (talk) 13:19, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, my bad, I misread the history. I really appreciate your gracious response and hope your holidys are good :) ♠PMC♠ (talk) 13:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- If this achieves "Good article" status at any time in the future, it could be nominated for DYK again if this active nominatio does not pass. We could leave this open until at least two months from when it started (December 17), to see what the nominator would like to do. Flibirigit (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- I've never engaged with the good article process (although if/when I do I need to start with my girl Dolly Johnson!), so maybe we should close it so KAVEBEAR can get a refund on their QPQ token sooner rather than later? jengod (talk) 19:09, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- There are no refunds on QPQs, since someone else had to review this nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 21:59, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Oh that's wild but also makes total sense. Well. I have at least one more article I want to look at for this and I will continue fiddling with it, and I will ping PMC if I think there's any hope! Thanks for explaining and for all your patience. jengod (talk) 22:51, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- There are no refunds on QPQs, since someone else had to review this nomination. Flibirigit (talk) 21:59, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Just to clarify I am not the creator I just expanded it in passing. I have cut some of the images and am working on summarizing all quotes from secondary sources. That said, I agree this article is not ready for the main page. Going into our holiday season, it might be a while before it's up to par. Could we close this nomination for now? Maybe we can revisit sometime next year when it's been further revised and had time to "mature" and develop the deeper flavors. Like good stew! Thanks to everyone engaging with it. You're all lovely. jengod (talk) 13:19, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- New and long enough at nomination time. No concerns about sourcing. Earwig flags quotes, but nothing else. That being said, I am concerned about the extent of the quoting in the article. DYKchecker says the article is 2754 words, not counting the block quotes (~2300 if you discount the lead). When you strip out the lengthy inline quotes, it drops to ~1800 words (~1400 without the lead). That's a solid 30% of the article (40% without the lead). Quoting to this extent verges on a copyright issue; even ignoring that, it isn't in line with MOS:QUOTE, which says overuse of quotations isn't encyclopedic writing. At a glance, much of it could be easily paraphrased.This isn't a DYK issue, but there is also extensive WP:SANDWICHing of text between images, which makes the block quoting even worse, visually. The newspaper articles should be removed; we're not supposed to include the full text of lengthy primary sources. The plant and the tornado should also be removed as irrelevant. The remaining images should be assessed for placement once that's sorted out.With apologies, on the basis of the quoting issues, I don't think this is ready for DYK right now. I have not yet assessed the hook, but I will if the rest is resolved. Courtesy pinging creator Jengod & nominator KAVEBEAR to advise. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 08:27, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 17
editRich Romer
- ... that three-time Pizza Hut All-American Rich Romer later worked as an engineer?
- ALT1: ... that NFL player Rich Romer was a three-time Pizza Hut All-American? Source: Pizza Hut
- Reviewed:
~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 23:24, 18 October 2024 (UTC).
- Verified that the article is long enough, that there are no plagiarism concerns through the Copyvios tool and spotchecking, and that the hook is sourced in the article. Cunard (talk) 07:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- Great work on the article! Both hooks are interesting and verified as being sourced in the article. ALT0 relies on this source to say he worked as an engineer. According to the About Us page for the East Greenbush Education Foundation, "The East Greenbush Education Foundation, Inc. is an audited 501(c)(3) non-profit organization whose sole purpose is to raise funds to support student achievement. Founded in 1985 and located in East Greenbush, NY, the Foundation is governed by a volunteer Board of Directors." I think this is a marginally reliable source. If there are concerns that this source is insufficiently reliable, I recommend using ALT1 instead. Cunard (talk) 07:38, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
- WikiOriginal-9, this hook is somewhat incomprehensible if you're not from the States. More clarity would be nice, or another hook? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:48, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure of a way to reword All-American if that's the issue. We can just decline this. That's fine. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's more the combination of "Pizza Hut" and "All-American" that is confusing. I've read the article and I'm still not sure what it means. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- It means he was named an All-American by Pizza Hut (Pizza Hut used to select All-American teams for some reason). ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- So it's just a sponsorship thing, like the EFL Cup being called the Carabao Cup? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if Pizza Hut was necessarily a sponsor, they might not have been. The Associated Press names All-American teams and they aren't a sponsor. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 01:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- So it's just a sponsorship thing, like the EFL Cup being called the Carabao Cup? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- It means he was named an All-American by Pizza Hut (Pizza Hut used to select All-American teams for some reason). ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:52, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's more the combination of "Pizza Hut" and "All-American" that is confusing. I've read the article and I'm still not sure what it means. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure of a way to reword All-American if that's the issue. We can just decline this. That's fine. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:04, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Here are some possible angles, seeing if a compromise can be made regarding the Pizza Hut mention, or if something else could be done here.
- ALT2 ... that American football player Rich Romer was thrice selected as an All-American by Pizza Hut?
- ALT3 ... that following his NFL career, Rich Romer worked in an anti-drugs and anti-drunk driving program?
- Even the article's treatment of the Pizza Hut thing is confusing. It mentions both second teams and first teams: is there a difference or are they still called Pizza Hut All-Americans? It also mentions that he was named an All-American by multiple entities and not just Pizza Hut, so limiting it to just Pizza Hut, while accurate, also seems confusing. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:01, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @WikiOriginal-9: Pinging for the above. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:23, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm fine with either of those hooks. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Pinging Cunard and AirshipJungleman29 regarding the new hooks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm fine with either of those hooks. ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 16:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @WikiOriginal-9: Pinging for the above. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:23, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 18
edit2024 Kansas City metropolitan area rent strike
- ... that a rent strike in Missouri (pictured) is the first to ever target the United States federal government?
💽 LunaEclipse 💽 ⚧ 【=◈︿◈=】 00:15, 18 October 2024 (UTC).
- Article is new and long enough. Article is well-sourced, neutral, and only pings on Earwigs for some long proper titles. Hook is cited, short enough, and interesting. QPQ has been completed. Image is freely licensed, clear at a diminished size, and used in the article. Morgan695 (talk) 15:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- @LunaEclipse, Morgan695, and AirshipJungleman29: pulled, as no one responded to this message and it's in queue now :) will probably need a new hook. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Theleekycauldron, ALT1: ...that tenants burned their late rent notices as part of a strike? 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 22:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- (source jic) 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 22:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- looks like the body of the article says they burned the notices? (see WP:HEADLINE) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:09, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I've reworded the hook accordingly. 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 11:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @LunaEclipse: Seems to check out. I'm sorry to jerk you around on this, but is this article notable under WP:NEVENT? There's no analysis-based coverage, it's all primary-source reporting, and all of the coverage seems to be from local or niche publications. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:56, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I've reworded the hook accordingly. 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 11:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- looks like the body of the article says they burned the notices? (see WP:HEADLINE) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:09, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- (source jic) 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 22:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- Theleekycauldron, ALT1: ...that tenants burned their late rent notices as part of a strike? 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 22:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Luo Shiwen
- ... that Luo Shiwen (pictured) led a secret cell of the Chinese Communist Party while detained at a Kuomintang concentration camp?
- Source: * Li Jingya (李惊亚) (4 April 2024). 探访息烽集中营旧址,追寻先烈们的热血与信仰 [Visit the Site of Xifeng Concentration Camp and Trace the Passion and Faith of the Martyrs]. Xinhua Daily Telegraph (in Chinese). Xinhua News Agency. Archived from the original on 14 October 2024. Retrieved 14 October 2024. (existence of the secret cell and its power is also confirmed by Mühlhahn, Klaus (2009). Criminal Justice in China: A History. Cambridge: Harvard University Press. p. 144. ISBN 978-0-674-05433-2.)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anaïs Gallagher (3 of 3)
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing: - Much of the article is cited to sources like "Devoting One's Efforts to the Party and the People is the Least of One's Worries——Deeds of Martyr Luo Shiwen", which doesn't speak well to their reliability. There is no consensus that Chinese government published sources are reliable for heroic deeds of party members (see, eg, WP:XINHUA).
- Neutral: - Unclear, see above
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - ? Unable to evaluate translation copyvio from Chinese language sources
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting: - Hook could use improvement. Such underground groups developed in so many locations that political prisoners are jailed together
Image eligibility:
- Freely licensed:
- Used in article:
- Clear at 100px: - Bad quality pic, main page viewers would be better served by not running it
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: (t · c) buidhe 04:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Buidhe. Thank you for taking a look at this article, though I note that you are supposed to notify the article's creator if you find issues.
- Referring to WP:XINHUA, which you mentioned in your review, the quorum mentioned there reads "Caution should be exercised in using this source, extremely so in case of extraordinary claims on controversial subjects or biographies of living people. When in doubt, try to find better sources instead; use inline attribution if you must use Xinhua." Little mentioned in the Luo Xinhua article crosses the bar of "extraordinary claims", and what does cross that bar is specifically attributed to the source (with an indication that it is state-owned). He lived, he did something, he was detained, he was executed. Where these government sources have been used, I have been careful not to use their description of persons whom the CCP has no reason to like (for example, the conflict with Zhang Guotao is cited to Howard rather than the decidedly less neutral CCP sources, and discussion of Xifeng is cited predominantly to a Harvard University Press book). Likewise, I have deliberately excluded politically charged claims such as Luo's father being bankrupted by the high ROC taxes.
- As per WP:PARTISAN, "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective." WP:CONTEXTMATTERS clarifies that "Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content." In this case, the sources are used specifically for basic statements of biography. Where statements were extraordinary, such as Mao and Zhou specifically asking for Luo's release, it has been attributed to the source with an indication of the source's potential bias.
- As for the hook, I am deliberately avoiding claims that are sourced exclusively to state-media. How do you feel about:
- ALT1 ... that Luo Shiwen (pictured) led a secret cell of the Chinese Communist Party that negotiated better conditions for inmates at their concentration camp?
- That ALT is supported entirely by Mühlhahn. Regards, — Chris Woodrich (talk) 12:28, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Xinhua is, according to consensus,
generally reliable for factual reporting except in areas where the government of China may have a reason to use it for propaganda
, but this topic is exactly one where the Chinese government would have an interest in distorting its own history in order to make the CCP look better. Perhaps other reviewers would have a different opinion, but I don't think that Chinese government published sources should be cited so heavily. (In case you are looking for additional sources, this one is accessible via TWL and seems to mention the article subject). (t · c) buidhe 00:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)- I think I have Wakeman sitting around somewhere. I'll cite that for a few points, and I can cite some more to the pithy provided by Howard. That being said, a blanket prohibition against mainland Chinese sources (we've been talking about Xinhua, but Sichuan Annals are cited more prevalently, and both the original books and the web edition have the same government ties) for a figure of little interest to KMT historians does seem counter-productive. It may be best to have a third opinion. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:39, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Buidhe: Have your concerns been resolved and is this approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 23:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think we were looking at having a third party take a look, but I wasn't sure how to proceed. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:17, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- I also don't think there should be a ban on CCP sources for uncontroversial statements. I'll investigate further when my head's a bit clearer.--Launchballer 10:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- Or indeed, any Chinese government-backed sources; claims should be assessed on their merits. (They probably aren't making up "son of a saltmonger", for example.) @Buidhe: what specific sentences are you objecting to?--Launchballer 13:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- My interpretation (see above) is that there is a consensus that the Chinese government sources are not reliable where they have an incentive to lie for propaganda purposes. When it comes to the heroic deeds of a Communist party member, there is an obvious incentive for propaganda. This does not apply to basic biographical information that does not reflect positively or negatively on the subject (t · c) buidhe 02:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Crisco 1492: Are you able to find other, more reliable sources to verify the information? Z1720 (talk) 15:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Z1720; as I mentioned above, I have attributed all extraordinary claims to non-Party sources, or made it explicit that sources may be biased in the running text. The remainder is, to the best of my assessment, basic biographic data (for example, "At the time, following the May Fourth Movement and in the midst of the New Culture Movement, he and his cousins had begun reading communist publication", cited to the Sichuan Annals). One might object to "inciting more [peasant] uprisings", but given that was the standard MO of the CCP in the 1930s, I don't feel that it meets the extraordinary or heroic threshold. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at the article, I don't think any of the claims sourced to refs 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 13, 17, 18, or 19 meet the criteria outlined at WP:EXCEPTIONAL.--Launchballer 01:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Crisco 1492: Are you able to find other, more reliable sources to verify the information? Z1720 (talk) 15:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- My interpretation (see above) is that there is a consensus that the Chinese government sources are not reliable where they have an incentive to lie for propaganda purposes. When it comes to the heroic deeds of a Communist party member, there is an obvious incentive for propaganda. This does not apply to basic biographical information that does not reflect positively or negatively on the subject (t · c) buidhe 02:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Xinhua is, according to consensus,
Requesting a reviewer. Right now we seem to be at an impasse. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 19
editIzvestiya Soveta rabochikh i soldatskikh deputatov goroda Askhabada
- ... that Izvestiya Soveta rabochikh i soldatskikh deputatov goroda Askhabada was the first Bolshevik newspaper published in the Transcaspian Oblast?
- Source: А. А Росляков. Большевики Туркменистана в борьбе за власть Советов. Туркменское государственное изд-во, 1961. p. 328
Soman (talk) 17:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: We've had issues with hooks about "firsts", particularly when it comes to newspapers. It's best to avoid superlatives that are difficult to substaniate, but it's also not that interesting. Also, why not have the title in English? RoySmith is working on an essay that explores the idea: First is worst. Viriditas (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I think there are a few different issues here. I see the argument that RoySmith is trying to make in the draft essay, but at the same time that's a draft essay and not a policy at this stage. Blanket avoidance of any superlatives will have a pretty big impact on the entire DYK process, and whilst I think it fair to reflect on the issues linked to claims of 'first', 'biggest' etc I would not agree to that it should be enforced as a strict rule.
- One say to perhaps make the hook slightly more interesting would be to rephrase Transcaspian Oblast (unknown to most readers) to 'present-day Turkmenistan'. It is slightly different than to say 'first Bolshevik newspaper in Pskov', it illustrates that the political organization of the movements of the Russian revolution covered what is today many different countries and societies.
- Another approach for ALT could be to focus on the role of the newspaper in the tensions inside the Ashkhabad Soviet, that the newspaper supposedly published by the Soviet frequently attacked the leadership of the Soviet. But I find it more difficult to construe the sourcing to explicitly state that the newspaper was indeed the organ of the Soviet (in spite of the name), it seemingly was a Bolshevik party organ de facto.
- In regards to the name, I generally think translating newspaper names is a bad idea. We refer to Le Monde as Le Monde, not The World. We refer to Pravda as Pravda, not Truth. And so forth. With Chinese newspapers there are some cases where it possible to argue to that names like People's Daily could be considered WP:COMMONNAME, although I think that is gradually becoming an anachronism. --Soman (talk) 09:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- Surely, the paper was known by a nickname that can be used? It seems unlikely that anyone would say, "Hey comrade, did you read the News of the Council of Workers and Soldiers Deputies of the City of Askhabad this morning?" Viriditas (talk) 09:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- I find 'Известия Асхабадского Совета' being used in some sources. --Soman (talk) 01:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Soman: That's a good step forward. Can it be added to the article with the English translation? And can we use the shortened format in the hook? Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- How about ALT1 - "... that Izvestiya Askhabadskogo Soveta was the first Bolshevik newspaper published in present-day Turkmenistan? The alt name added in article now. --Soman (talk) 00:28, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Soman: That's a good step forward. Can it be added to the article with the English translation? And can we use the shortened format in the hook? Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- I find 'Известия Асхабадского Совета' being used in some sources. --Soman (talk) 01:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- Surely, the paper was known by a nickname that can be used? It seems unlikely that anyone would say, "Hey comrade, did you read the News of the Council of Workers and Soldiers Deputies of the City of Askhabad this morning?" Viriditas (talk) 09:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 20
editMwene Muji
... that Mwene Muji was a polity in the Congo Basin which declined in the late 19th century, and when the Belgians collected traditions in 1926, grand claims of its once imperial status were dismissed?ALT1 ... that Mwene Muji was a polity in the Congo Basin, and when the Belgians collected traditions in 1926, grand claims of its once imperial status were dismissed?- ALT2 ... that the grand claims from the ruler of Mwene Muji of them once having imperial status were dismissed by Belgian colonial authorities?
- Source: [11]
- Reviewed:
Kowal2701 (talk) 19:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC).
- Hello and welcome to DYK. Right now the hook does not meet the guidelines for a DYK hook as it's too long (we have a limit of 200 characters for most hooks, and ideally it should be less). In addition, it needs to largely focus on a hooky fact, whereas the current hook is essentially summarizing the article. Please prose a new hook so that the nomination can continue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Kowal2701: I've also checked the article and right now it's less than 1500 characters long. DYK requires a minimum of 1500 characters of prose to be accepted. If you can expand the article further so that it meets the guidelines then less us know, but if that is not feasible then unfortunately the nomination will have to be rejected. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
@User:Narutolovehinata5 the hook is 197 words long, and it gives context the fact which is that their grand claims were dismissed. I wouldn't say it summarises the article, just the last few sentences. I can expand it further, I think at the moment it's at 1200 words. Are you sure the hook isn't okay?
- Yes, the hook is far too long for DYK, even if it is slightly under the character limit. Perhaps another editor like Launchballer can give some advice on what makes a good hook, especially one that isn't too long. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @User:Narutolovehinata5 but surely if it's under the character limit then the length is okay?
- I’ve added alts, I think I know what you were getting at, that the initial hook had too much information in it and wouldn’t entice the reader to click on the article. I think ALT2 is okay? Kowal2701 (talk) 13:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, ALT2 would work. Since the original issues about length and hooks are now addressed this is ready for a full review. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, the hook is far too long for DYK, even if it is slightly under the character limit. Perhaps another editor like Launchballer can give some advice on what makes a good hook, especially one that isn't too long. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
Głos Kolejarzy Ewakuowanych — Golos Evakuirovannykh Zheleznodorozhnikov
- ... that an organ of evacuated Polish railway workers called for unity with All-Russian trade unions around the time of the 1917 October Revolution?
- Source: Ludwik Bazylow, Jan Sobczak. Encyklopedia Rewolucji Październikowej. Wiedza Powszechna, 1987. p. 118
Soman (talk) 12:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC).
- Date, size, hook, neutrality, refs, copyvio spotcheck, QPQ - all in green. GTG. I just wonder whether a more interesting hook could be found, hmmm, maybe one based on the SDKPiL quote? @Soman: --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:01, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Soman I agree that a more interesting hook would be preferred. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1 - "... that during World War I the organ of evacuated Polish railway workers in Moscow denounced the trade unions of the Warsaw–Vienna railway as 'separatists'? --Soman (talk) 00:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- Soman I agree that a more interesting hook would be preferred. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 22
editRevant Himatsingka
- ... that an Indian social media influencer's viral video on the sugar content of a children's "health drink" compelled its parent company to slash sugar by almost 15%?
- Source: "In addition, Bournvita reduced added sugar by a massive margin of 15% in their product." - https://www.freepressjournal.in/brandsutra/sweet-victory-of-a-one-man-army
"the brand has now reduced the quantity of added sugar by 14.4 percent.", "Previously, the Bournvita product contained 37.4 grams of added sugar per 100 grams of powder. The revised formula has a reduced sugar content of 32.2 grams per 100 grams." - https://www.indiatoday.in/trending-news/story/bournvita-reduces-added-sugar-content-after-backlash-influencer-calls-it-big-win-2480239-2023-12-25
"Cadbury reduced the quantity of added sugar in Bournvita by 14.4 percent in December 2023" - https://thebetterindia.com/350012/revant-himatsingka-food-pharmer-nutrition-ingredient-list-read-label-padhega-india-mumbai/
- Reviewed:
- Comment: I think this is quite an interesting feat on the part of the influencer that a viral video was able to get Cadbury to reduce added sugar in Bournvita (marketed as children's health drink in India) by almost 15%, even as they sent legal notices and filed lawsuits against him. Also, I am new to DYK, and not sure if the hook could be made better than this. Thanks!
—CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 20:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review. Just noting that you could use this new infobox image for an image hook. Bremps... 07:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
National Gingerbread House Competition
... that due to the effects of Hurricane Helene, the National Gingerbread House Competition (pictured) has been canceled for the first time in history?
- Source: In the wake of Hurricane Helene, the Omni Grove Park Inn announced its 32nd annual National Gingerbread House competition. https://www.foxcarolina.com/2024/10/22/omni-grove-park-inn-cancels-national-gingerbread-house-competition/
- Reviewed:
Hkeely (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC).
- Hi Hkeely, welcome to DYK. Interesting article but it is currently below the 1,500 character minimum requirement (see WP:DYKLEN), can it be extended with more content? - Dumelow (talk) 20:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Dumelow, thank you. I have expanded the article with additional content so that it now surpasses the 1,500 character minimum requirement - Hkeely (talk) 04:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Hkeely. The length is now fine, article was created on time (22 October), sources used look to be reliable for the content and I found no issues with overly close paraphrasing, image is good (I trimmed the caption quite a bit). A couple of questions on sourcing:
- I couldn't see in the Fox Carolina source where it said this was the only time the event had been cancelled?
- Can you add a citation in the article for the last sentence of the first paragraph about the TV channels it has been broadcast on?
- Apart from that I think this is good to go - Dumelow (talk) 07:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Hkeely. The length is now fine, article was created on time (22 October), sources used look to be reliable for the content and I found no issues with overly close paraphrasing, image is good (I trimmed the caption quite a bit). A couple of questions on sourcing:
- Thanks Dumelow. Thank you for checking this and trimming the caption. I've added a citation for the TV channel coverage. The cancelation information is because the contest started in 1992 and this would have been the 32nd annual event. Since there were 31 events prior, that adds up mathematically. I did include new information about the public display portion being canceled during the Covid pandemic in 2020, though judging did continue that year. - Hkeely (talk) 17:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Hkeely, if the first event was held in 1992 and it was held every year then 2024 would have been the 33rd event. There are 32 years between the first and last event but 33 events (see fencepost error) - Dumelow (talk) 08:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 15:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Z1720: The competition hosts themselves say that the event started in 1992 and that 2024 would have been the 32nd annual competition. https://www.omnihotels.com/hotels/asheville-grove-park/things-to-do/national-gingerbread-competition I presume this is the case because the first year wasn't actually judged. Hkeely (talk) 19:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely and Z1720: Sorry for delay in replying. I am not sure that is enough for us to assume it is the first time, but happy if another reviewer thinks it is. Is there an alternative wording we can look at? - Dumelow (talk) 10:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely: Going purely off what's on this nom, the hook is not accurate and should be replaced.--Launchballer 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely and Z1720: Sorry for delay in replying. I am not sure that is enough for us to assume it is the first time, but happy if another reviewer thinks it is. Is there an alternative wording we can look at? - Dumelow (talk) 10:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Hkeely, if the first event was held in 1992 and it was held every year then 2024 would have been the 33rd event. There are 32 years between the first and last event but 33 events (see fencepost error) - Dumelow (talk) 08:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer, Dumelow, Z1720, and Hkeely: How about this?
- ALT1 ... that despite its name, the National Gingerbread House Competition (pictured) has featured gingerbread clock towers, ocean liners, and giant pandas?
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:48, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer, Dumelow, Z1720, and Narutolovehinata5: Great idea! I've updated the hook based on actual entries. Hkeely (talk) 16:05, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2: ... that despite its name, the National Gingerbread House Competition (pictured) has featured gingerbread merry-go-rounds, sea monsters, and even the Statue of Liberty?
- Hi all. Merry-go-rounds, sea monsters, and the Statue of Liberty proposed in (what I have labelled) ALT2 are not mentioned in the article. "clock towers, ocean liners, and giant pandas" are mentioned in the article but not the source cited there - Dumelow (talk) 18:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely: Just for clarification, you should not have replaced the original hook (ALT0) with the new one (ALT2), as this could cause confusion regarding the nomination history. I've restored the original hook to its place (albeit struck out to show that it is no longer under consideration), and moved ALT2 to later in the discussion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 23
editForeign policy of the Masoud Pezeshkian administration
- ... that Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian was the first Iranian president to visit Iraqi Kurdistan?
- ALT1: ... that Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian was the first Iranian president to attend the 16th BRICS summit following its admission? Source: https://en.irna.ir/news/85637049/BRICS-summit-opens-in-Russia-s-Kazan-with-Iran-s-president-in
- Reviewed:
- Comment: First article. I think i've done it right. Just not sure which is the most catch title.
there is an image of him on his main page, maybe someone can add it it this?
Sportsnut24 (talk) 13:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC).
- Comment from NPP reviewer: Sportsnut24, you should properly format your references using Template:Cite web, instead of simply putting a URL between ref tags. I have left a maintenance template on the article and done one for you – simply follow this format for the others. Best, Toadspike [Talk] 11:25, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- I would also note that per the (now deprecated) supplementary guideline D3, that bare URLs should generally not be used for articles, especially when it gets nominated for DYK/GA/FA. JuniperChill (talk) 15:56, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's actually listed at the latest guidelines at WP:DYKCITE JuniperChill (talk) 15:58, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Sportsnut24: Did you resolve the above concern, and is this ready for a review? Z1720 (talk) 15:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @JuniperChill: WP:PRESSTV policy is itself based on a deprecated source. Ergo, there is no policy.Sportsnut24 (talk) 12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm confused with what your saying, or you got confused with what you said. While this isn't a full review, deprecated sources are almost never used in articles (Daily Mail is a notable example, and so is Press TV), and are likely not permitted for DYK and you even pointed it out to yourself. I suggest removing them. Another user will give a proper review. JuniperChill (talk) 18:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @JuniperChill: WP:PRESSTV policy is itself based on a deprecated source. Ergo, there is no policy.Sportsnut24 (talk) 12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Let's make it clear I'm requesting a review from another user. JuniperChill (talk) 10:29, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Sportsnut24: Please address the above.--Launchballer 12:17, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 24
editA Nail Clipper Romance
- ... that Ekin Cheng delivered his lines in his native Cantonese in the Mandarin-language film A Nail Clipper Romance?
- Source: [1]
- ALT1: ... that A Nail Clipper Romance is an extension of a 2010 short film of the same name which starred Zhou Xun? Source: [2]
- ALT2: ... that Zhou Dongyu learned to surf while filming A Nail Clipper Romance in Hawaii? Source: [3]
- ALT3: ... that Tiffany Ann Hsu made a cameo appearance in A Nail Clipper Romance at the invitation of lead actress Zhou Dongyu? Source: [4]
- ALT4: ... that A Nail Clipper Romance marks the directorial debut of cinematographer Jason Kwan? Source: [5]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/You Are Here (song)
Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 06:17, 24 October 2024 (UTC).
Sources
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- Comment: @Prince of Erebor: A few things stand out to me: the poor critical reception/box office performance? is played down in the lead section in a somewhat ingenious way, by emphasizing the positive reviews of the short film it is based upon. I think you should fix that as it presents a neutrality issue. In other words, summarize the reception in the lead, not the previous work. The other thing I noticed is that the article says the film took place in the state of Hawaii several times. While it’s fine to say that at least once, subsequent mention should specify it was filmed specifically on the island of Oahu in and around the city of Honolulu, if the sources can support that. There are also opportunities to link to specific articles about the Chinese population in Hawaii. Leaning towards ALT2 at the moment although I wonder if it can be made more interesting than it is with other details. More later. Viriditas (talk) 18:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Viriditas! Thanks a lot for taking up the review, but I beg to differ with both of your current suggestions. The "positive reviews" in the lead refer to the short film, which explains why a full-length feature was developed afterward, and this is supported by multiple sources. I do not find this description to be faulty. Meanwhile, I have not found any sources that comment on or summarize the critical reception and box office performance. From the current reviews listed, I do not believe it is conclusive that the film was poorly received, as some critics have given it 3.5/5 and expressed various positive opinions on the premise, themes, and performances. Regarding box office performance, it is also subjective to judge whether it is positive or negative, as arthouse films like this one typically gross less than blockbusters. I would summarize the box office performance as poor only if supported by multiple sources, like in Miss Shampoo or The Invincible Dragon. For your second suggestion, I have only mentioned the film being shot in Hawaii once in the filming section. The other mentions focus on different topics, like casting choices or creative decisions based on the demographics of Hawaiians. There are no specific references to the filming locations in Hawaii, so I cannot specify which part of Hawaii the film was shot in. I am also unsure if mentioning the specific location has any bearing on why the crew chose to film there or why Ekin Cheng was willing to join the project. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 18:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I think you might have misunderstood me. By emphasizing the positive review of a different film in the lead, and ignoring the poor critical reception (3.5 is pretty mediocre, and there are other poor reviews and apparently bad box office results) that presents a neutrality issue. You will want to very briefly note the critical reception of this film in the lead, regardless of the positive reception of the other film. As for Hawaii, there are eight islands in the state. The film industry is in Oahu, but not all films are shot there. Given what we know so far, this entire film was shot on Oahu in and around Honolulu. This should be easy to source. I’m sorry we disagree. Viriditas (talk) 18:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I believe we are on the same page. My point is that the characterization of the film's box office performance and critical reception as "poor" is not supported by sources and is purely subjective. I see this as a form of OR. But I understand your concerns, and perhaps it would be better to remove the mention of positive reviews for the short film from the lead instead? Regarding the filming location, could you please provide me with the source that confirms the film was shot in Oahu? I conducted a research quite thoroughly while writing the article and do not recall seeing this mentioned in any English or Chinese RS. Please let me know if I am mistaken or have overlooked any sources. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Let's take it one topic at a time; my old brain doesn't multitask as well as it should. First things first: can you briefly summarize the critical reception in the lead? Viriditas (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, my answer is no, because I do not see a conclusive consensus among the reviews. Summarizing the box office performance and a handful of critics' opinions subjectively and labeling the film as "poorly received" is a form of WP:SYNTH in my opinion. But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I think we might be speaking past each other. Is there any reason you cannot summarize the critical reception section you've written in the body of the article and add it to the lead, to the best of your ability? Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Perhaps you aren't aware of this, which would explain the back and forth. There's several ways to do it, but the most common involve characterizing the type of review in the first part of the sentence ("The film received mixed reviews from critics"), and then in the second part, describing the box office results ("and became a box office bomb"). These are just examples. Viriditas (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I believe we are still on the same page. I am aware that mixed reviews exist, I have used this term in another recent article of mine (Get the Hell Out). In that case, the inclusion was based on a cited Rotten Tomatoes score of 5.9, so it does not involve original research. Many film articles lack a summary of critical reception exactly because of WP:SYNTH. An example that come to mind is Deadpool and Wolverine, where editors voted not to include a critical reception summary in the lead due to concerns about SYNTH. There are also no sources indicating that the film failed at the box office. While it may not have grossed enough to make the list of top grossing films in 2017, that does not equate to it being a box office bomb, and I still see the assertion as a form of OR. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I think we might be speaking past each other. Is there any reason you cannot summarize the critical reception section you've written in the body of the article and add it to the lead, to the best of your ability? Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Perhaps you aren't aware of this, which would explain the back and forth. There's several ways to do it, but the most common involve characterizing the type of review in the first part of the sentence ("The film received mixed reviews from critics"), and then in the second part, describing the box office results ("and became a box office bomb"). These are just examples. Viriditas (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, my answer is no, because I do not see a conclusive consensus among the reviews. Summarizing the box office performance and a handful of critics' opinions subjectively and labeling the film as "poorly received" is a form of WP:SYNTH in my opinion. But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Let's take it one topic at a time; my old brain doesn't multitask as well as it should. First things first: can you briefly summarize the critical reception in the lead? Viriditas (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I believe we are on the same page. My point is that the characterization of the film's box office performance and critical reception as "poor" is not supported by sources and is purely subjective. I see this as a form of OR. But I understand your concerns, and perhaps it would be better to remove the mention of positive reviews for the short film from the lead instead? Regarding the filming location, could you please provide me with the source that confirms the film was shot in Oahu? I conducted a research quite thoroughly while writing the article and do not recall seeing this mentioned in any English or Chinese RS. Please let me know if I am mistaken or have overlooked any sources. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I think you might have misunderstood me. By emphasizing the positive review of a different film in the lead, and ignoring the poor critical reception (3.5 is pretty mediocre, and there are other poor reviews and apparently bad box office results) that presents a neutrality issue. You will want to very briefly note the critical reception of this film in the lead, regardless of the positive reception of the other film. As for Hawaii, there are eight islands in the state. The film industry is in Oahu, but not all films are shot there. Given what we know so far, this entire film was shot on Oahu in and around Honolulu. This should be easy to source. I’m sorry we disagree. Viriditas (talk) 18:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
I am sorry, but it appears that you are still misreading me. Please summarize the critical reception to the best of your ability (as I described above) and place it in the lead section. The specific decision and rationale not to include a critical reception section in Deadpool and Wolverine does not apply here. Further, that film received mostly positive reviews, so the dispute in that particular instance isn't really relevant. We know D&W received a positive, critical reception. One of the problems here is how accurate or inaccurate Metacritic scores are in this regard, and that led to the perception that D&W received a less than positive reception. That's really getting into the weeds, and there's no similar problem here. However, you could ask, did this film receive mostly positive reviews, did it receive mixed reviews, or did it receive poor reviews? Whatever your answer is, please briefly mention it in the lead. By describing a different film as "positive" and ignoring the critical reception in the lead, you are giving readers a false impression of what the reception was actually like. This is a problem. Viriditas (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, sorry but I believe you are also misreading me. I have already acknowledged your concern that the term "positive reviews" could mislead readers regarding the reception of this film, and I proposed removing the mention of the short film's reception. (
But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception.
) This should have already addressed your concerns about neutrality or misleading information. The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now. Adding a summary (positive, mixed, negative, whatever) you are suggesting is purely original research and a synthesis of the sources. If there are no sources or review aggregators to support the claim that the article is generally viewed as positive, divisive, or negative by critics, then adding my own assessment of their opinions would be considered SYNTH. I am also somewhat puzzled by this conversation, as identifying OR should be WP editing 101 and my concerns about WP:V should be quite clear. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 20:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now
. No, it's actually quite different. It is not OR to summarize or to state the critical reception for this film in the lead and there's literally no connection to the arguments made in the D&W article, which received overwhelmingly positive reviews. This is why ignoring the critical reception in the lead for D&W is the default, as it received mostly positive, not negative feedback. I can assure you, if D&W had received a negative reception, the default would have been to mention that. By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception. Do you see how this works? The opposite is true here. You are free, of course, to do what you like, but priming the reader with mentioning a "positive" review of an altogether different film while ignoring the poor to mediocre, to mixed reviews (and box office performance) of this film is a neutrality issue. I'm once again sorry that we see this so differently. Perhaps you will find others to agree with your position. Viriditas (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I must respectfully disagree with you. The editors who participated in the survey for the D&W article specifically discussed issues related to synthesis. While the film may seem
overwhelmingly positive
to you, there are also negative reviews out there. In fact, all four wording options discussed in that survey addressed the non-positive, divisive reviews.By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception.
The current critical response section also included negative reviews from like San Francisco Chronicle, The Hollywood Reporter, and one-star review from The Irish Times. So no, that is not the case. It is because reviews from an opposite stance exist, a positive/mixed reception summary would not be appropriate. This echoes my point that adding a subjective summary suggesting that the film underperformed based on what you and I think, constitutes original research. I have also repeatedly acknowledged your concern that the positive reception of the short film in the lead is misleading and have offered to remove that line. (I have rephrased it just now and I hope this address your concerns.) So I do not really see a reason to continue adding a summary of the reception and box office performance. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 20:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- That's definitely an improvement, but I do want to say that I see zero relationship between the argument made in the D&W discussion, which defaults to the absence of negative critical commentary in the lead based on all of the available evidence, as well as an indication that the critical reception was first and foremost controversial, and this article, which did not receive a positive reception and where the critical reception was not controversial. There's literally no comparison. I get that you are making this comparison, but it doesn't exist, IMO. Now, if you think the critical reception of this film was controversial, I am happy to review the matter, and if true, that is indeed, a supporting argument for keeping it out of the lead. But as far as I can tell, the critics and the audiences didn't like this film and it performed poorly at the box office. By keeping this out of the lead, it gives the impression of a neutrality problem. Now, with all that said, the question becomes, does it need to be in the lead? Aside from obvious controversies where representing the critical reception is difficult or disputed (i.e. D&W), I would say yes, but with the additional caveat that local consensus, as we've seen with D&W, can override this, particularly in instances where the default position doesn't deviate from the overall reception. It might help to get clarification from the film project talk page on this. They are usually pretty active, even during the holidays. The NPOV noticeboard might even be a better place, I don't know. However, keeping it out of the lead does not appear neutral to me at all. More so, if the sources emphasize that the film was received poorly with critics and the box office. So we are still divided on this subtopic. I would prefer to work towards an agreement on this with you, but I don't think that's going to happen. One other thing: have you added critical reception to the lead before in your other film articles that notes a poor, mediocre, or mixed reception status? If so, what makes this article different than the others? If not, why not? Your careful reasoning and answer to those two questions could conceivably bring me over to your side, leading me to drop this. Viriditas (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas , sorry, but I still only see you asserting that critics and audiences didn't like this film and that it performed poorly at the box office. Based on what is currently in the article, there are at least some positive to mediocre reviews, and the total gross exceeds the film's budget. It is hardly accurate to describe it as having a negative reception or being a box office bomb. Labeling the film in this way is just your subjective judgement based on what you have seen about the film and it truly harms the article's neutrality. While if the reception is mixed and the box office performance is merely average, whether or not to mention these is unrelated to neutrality and I do not see the urge to add such phrases. I am generally open to adding or removing content from articles, like I would be happy to include the precise filming locations you mentioned if sources are available, but this just seems like original research to me. I also do not see the necessity to escalate this, as again, I think this is WP editing 101. But I would not object to seeking a third opinion.
- Regarding your final question, yes, I certainly do. Examples include positive reviews for Mongrel (2024 film), mixed reviews for Get the Hell Out, and negative reviews for The Invincible Dragon. My rationale for adding a summary is based on the existence of a conclusive consensus among critics' opinions. For these articles, there are Rotten Tomatoes scores, which aggregate all critical reviews and can be interpreted as the consensus of the majority of critics. There are exceptions, like 18×2 Beyond Youthful Days, where multiple reputable sources describe the film as both a box office and critical success. But in this case, there is neither a consensus summarized by review aggregators nor multiple reliable sources. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 21:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Was this film a box office success or a box office bomb? In other words, did it break even by a large amount? When you look at the budget and compare it to the raw, unadjusted revenue, it looks like the film made US $34,000 dollars. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong? Also, your own source says it did poorly at the box office and implies it lost money because in that market romantic films do poorly. We're still not on the same page. I have not fully analyzed the critical reviews just yet so I'm keeping that separate until later. But it appears that in terms of the box office, the sources say it did not do well. Viriditas (talk) 22:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: Yes, you have read things wrong. The film had a budget of USD$386,000 (HKD$3 million) excluding government funding, and grossed approximately USD$620,000 (RMB$4.49 million). I would not classify it as a box office success, and I am not well-versed in the film industry and cannot determine how much profit or loss the production company made based on these figures. However, it is common sense that a gross greater than the budget would not typically qualify as a box office bomb. Regarding the translated source, it refers to Zhou Dongyu's other film The Breaking Ice (燃冬), not this one (A Nail Clipper Romance; 指甲刀人魔). I am the one who added that source so of course I know what was written there... I have found no sources indicating that this film was a "box office failure". Please share any you might find. To be honest, I am starting to find this discussion somewhat pointless, as neither of us seems able to convince the other. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 22:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- This article (and your source) currently says the budget was HKD$4.9 million (US 629,714) which would give it a gross profit of $34k. Take at look at the article you wrote. Viriditas (talk) 22:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- 4.9 million including government funding, 3 million excluding. Do you really think I do not know what I typed in the article??
- Okay Viriditas, let me be clear. I believe your request to add a subjective summary labeling the film as poorly received and a box office failure constitutes blatant original research and violates WP:V. Your concerns about WP:NPOV have already been addressed with the removal of the short film's reception (which was actually sourced) from the lead. Even if a summary were included, it would only reflect "mixed reviews" and "average box office performance", which does not relate to your concerns about misleading or sugarcoating the film's actual reception. Since not adding a summary would no longer have anything to do with WP:NPOV, but adding one could impact both verifiability and neutrality imo, I refuse to include these policy-violating claims in the article. So we can either continue the review and set this issue aside, as your concerns have been adequately addressed, or you may choose to seek a third opinion, though I believe that is totally unnecessary. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 22:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I must respectfully disagree with you. The editors who participated in the survey for the D&W article specifically discussed issues related to synthesis. While the film may seem
I don’t know why you think summarizing the critical reception in the lead is a policy violation. That is an extremely unusual idea. Last comment to address the previous ones I ignored: "If a film released in theatres fails to break even by a large amount, it is considered a box-office bomb." List of biggest box-office bombs lists dozens of films that made more than their budget. That is neither here nor there. To address your previous point, you said I was citing material about a different film, but looking at it again after your criticism, it appears to be referring to this film. Here’s the material I was referring to: 和关智斌、张孝全等人主演的《指甲刀人魔》票房449.9万元。事实证明,演员能不能扛票房真的不好说,有运气和选剧本的能力左右,比如吴京主演的《巨齿鲨2》票房不如第一部,还有沈腾演出的《超能一家人》票房才3亿多,所以没有演员敢拍着胸膛说自己主演的电影票房一定大卖。当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影,其实制作成本可能也不是很高,但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片,所以她的票房都不怎么样,爱情片的票房本身就不是很高,特别偏文艺片的电影。If that means something else, let me know. My reading of this (当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影,其实制作成本可能也不是很高,但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片,所以她的票房都不怎么样,爱情片的票房本身就不是很高,特别偏文艺片的电影) is that it is referring to both films. Also, throughout this discussion you have insisted that I have wanted to add a qualitative statement to the lead, but you ignored the original question mark in my initial comment, identifying that I don’t know what that statement should actually be. I’ve tried to explain this to you, but you keep repeating the same thing for some odd reason. The questions remain: "how did critics receive this film and how well did it do at the box office?" As the reader, I wanted to know the answer. When I read the lead, I expected to find out, only to discover than an altogether different film received a positive reception, not this one. That is my last and final comment on this matter. Viriditas (talk) 23:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, yes, I have already mentioned that the source did not address this. The source lists the box office grosses of Zhou Dongyu's entire filmography, ranging from A Fangirl's Romance at USD 329,000 to Embrace Again at USD 129 million. Even if you are viewing it through Google Translate, you can still see the listings and it is separated into different paragraphs. So the statements you quoted obviously do not refer to A Nail Clipper Romance, otherwise the $129 million gross would also become a box office failure. And no, I did not ignore your statements. I have repeatedly mentioned that mixed reviews fall under SYNTH as well, but you have repeatedly focused on the poor reception you perceive in your replies, which is why I feel the need to address it more often than the other potential stances. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 23:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I said I wasn't going to revisit the above, so I won't. The problem of synth in regards to critical reception in lead sections was a specific, local consensus problem for D&W, not for other film articles. This was because of the unique set of circumstances regarding the sources. This was made clear in the responses by the participants. You are extrapolating the result of an article content page RFC out to all film leads. That's not how an article-specific RFC works at all. See WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. It may be wise to get some input from the larger film community over at their project page. Viriditas (talk) 23:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Addendum or coda: Derek Elley: "The film was shot back in late 2014 on Oahu island, around Honolulu. The Chinese title literally means “The Nail-Cutter Human Devil”. In the Mainland the film crashed and burned, grossing a tiny RMB4.5 million."[12] Viriditas (talk) 00:08, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, this will be my final response on this issue as well, as I do not find this conversation progressing in a meaningful way. The reason I mentioned D&W is that you brought up "other articles".
Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception?
Therefore, I raised another article that also has a divisive reception and involved thorough discussions among editors regarding the decision to omit the reception summary, that aligns with the rationale I am proposing here. My intention was to provide a noteworthy example, one that is more high-traffic and has a relatively large number of participants in the RFC, to ensure we are on the same page and that the summary is not left out for other reasons or merely reflecting the consensus of a handful of random editors. Of course, I understand if you view the concerns raised by the editors in that RFC as specific to that article and reflective of a mere local consensus, as context always matters. I only hope this gives you a clearer picture of my and at least some editors' perspectives about the potential SYNTHiness in the lead reception summary. D&W is just an example, synthesis is my main point, and I have explained my rationale on adding these summaries as well. Perhaps we have different interpretations of the definition of OR, which is perfectly fine, as editors often have varying views on WP guidelines. I have already offered to remove the potentially NPOV-violating weasel words that has disturbed you multiple times (since my second reply), in hopes of truly addressing the issues. However, you have ignored this and instead continue to push for the addition of a summary that you deem necessary, without fully addressing why you believe SYNTH does not apply to the reception summary in this case, convincing me that the poor reception is supported by RS rather than personal opinions, or providing a new rationale after the NPOV concerns have been addressed. Therefore, as I said, while I would not object to seeking a third opinion to move this review forward, I still find it unnecessary because, to me, this is a clear case of SYNTH, and I do not find it beneficial to continue wasting time on it. - Regarding the source, Sino-Cinema.com appeared to be a WP:RSPWORDPRESS blog to me. But upon checking the author, I would not object that Derek Elley may be considered a SME due to his career at Variety, and the filming locations are not controversial claims that would require the best, reputable sources, so I will treat this as a SPS. It is a nice addition, as it even details the filming period as late 2014, while the Screen Daily source only vaguely suggested the timeframe. I have added it to the article. Thanks for your finding!! —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 04:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, this will be my final response on this issue as well, as I do not find this conversation progressing in a meaningful way. The reason I mentioned D&W is that you brought up "other articles".
Second opinion requested. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 25
editBoxheim Documents
- ... that in 1931, Werner Best drafted for the Nazi Party the plans for a coup?
- Source: Press and Politics in the Weimar Republic. OUP Oxford. pp. 186–187.
- ALT1: ... that under a Nazi plan for a coup, Jews were to be deprived of food rations? Source: https://www.jta.org/archive/jews-to-be-starved-out-if-hitlerists-come-to-power-boxheim-documents-were-authentic-official-statem
- ALT2: ... that a Nazi plan for a coup involved the abolishment of private income, food confiscations and mandatory labour? Source: Press and Politics in the Weimar Republic. OUP Oxford. pp. 186–187.
- Reviewed:
Jean Po (talk) 15:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC).
- The article was made on the 25th, so is new enough. At many times the required length, it is long enough. The article reads neutrally and properly uses in-line citations. The copyvio detector finds nothing outside of explicit quotes in the article. Both hooks are interesting and cited in-line and utilized properly from the listed sources. The suggested image is in the public domain and visibly identifiable. No QPQ needs to be done. Looks good to go! SilverserenC 01:20, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jean Po, Silver seren, and Crisco 1492: I have pulled this hook on interestingness grounds. There is nothing whatsoever unusual about Nazis treating Jews poorly.--Launchballer 21:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, what about the original hook? I think that the Nazis were planning a full out coup, rather than their (admitted coerced through other events) political victory later, is interesting, particularly the effects that had at the time of the reveal of this plan. SilverserenC 22:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- No comment on interestingness, but I have tagged uncited material in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jean Po: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Citations added. --Jean Po (talk) 17:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Jean Po: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- No comment on interestingness, but I have tagged uncited material in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, what about the original hook? I think that the Nazis were planning a full out coup, rather than their (admitted coerced through other events) political victory later, is interesting, particularly the effects that had at the time of the reveal of this plan. SilverserenC 22:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jean Po, Silver seren, and Crisco 1492: I have pulled this hook on interestingness grounds. There is nothing whatsoever unusual about Nazis treating Jews poorly.--Launchballer 21:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 27
editBob Hainlen
- ... that Bob Hainlen, one of the youngest players for the Wilmington Clippers professional football team, was also the team's assistant coach?
- Source: News Journal
- ALT1: ... that football player Bob Hainlen, although only 17 years old and the youngest starting quarterback in his college's history, was described as already being a "master" of the position? Source: quote from this article ("he handles passing assignments, and play-calling like a master") + this for being youngest in school history
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Xinwen Bao
- Comment: QPQ to be done within 24 hours.
BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:51, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- Article was promoted to GA status on time, it is adequately sourced, and it is free from close paraphrasing. A full QPQ has been done. Among the hooks, the first one is the better option, and it is cited inline and verified in the Newspapers.com clipping. However, I think that mentioning his age at the time (22) rather than just saying he was "one of the youngest players" might actually make the hook more interesting. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:31, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: So, something like ALT2 ... that 22-year-old Bob Hainlen, one of the youngest players for the Wilmington Clippers professional football team, was also the team's assistant coach? BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- That actually adds further complexity: might be better to just drop "youngest players". Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:57, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: What about then: ALT3 ... that 22-year-old Bob Hainlen, in addition to playing for the Wilmington Clippers professional football team, also served as their assistant coach? Also, if that works, what do you think about the possibility of a date request for December 18, his 98th birthday? BeanieFan11 (talk) 03:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- That actually adds further complexity: might be better to just drop "youngest players". Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:57, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 28
editGilopez Kabayao
- ... that violinist Gilopez Kabayao was the first Filipino to perform at New York's Carnegie Hall in 1950?
- Source: "As the first Filipino violinist to perform at the prestigious Carnegie Hall in New York in 1950, Gilopez Kabayao broke new ground and brought pride to the nation." —Philippine Daily Inquirer / Inquirer.net; "He performed in prestigious venues, including Carnegie Hall in New York in 1950, making him the first Filipino violinist to do so." —SunStar
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anatolii Brezvin
- Comment: Many sources state that Kabayao's Carnegie Hall performance in 1950 was done when he was 19 years old, but this is impossible if he was born in 1929 so I omitted this from the article and therefore the hook. This error might affect the hook under WP:EXCEPTIONAL and especially since a different source (Manila Bulletin) says, "Kabayao is widely believed to be the first Filipino to play at the prestigious Carnegie Hall in New York City".
seav (talk) 23:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- Considering the exceptional claim of him being the first, and thus the related uncertainty, maybe we could go with a different hook angle here. How about:
- ALT1 ... that Filipino violinist Gilopez Kabayao was nicknamed the "Mozart to the Barrios"?
- No opinion on the state of the article itself, although admittedly it is rather lacking in hooky material. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Chromakopia
- ... that the physical version of Chromakopia contains an extra song?
- Reviewed:
MontanaMako (talk) 21:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC).
- Would suggest that new hooks be proposed. The current hook is unlikely to be perceived as interesting by non-specialist readers, as it lacks context regarding the subject and in particular why a reader should be interested in it. Plus, digital and physical versions being different is not unheard of anyway, so it's not even that unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5; just added a new one. Is it any better? MontanaMako (talk) 16:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Will leave the decision to another reviewer, but it's better than the original. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 18:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
New reviewer needed. Z1720 (talk) 15:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Zeng Laishun
- ... that Zeng Laishun (pictured) was the first Chinese person to attend college in the United States?
- Source: Rhoads, Edward J. M. (2011) Stepping Forth into the World: The Chinese Educational Mission to the United States, 1872–81. Pg. 3
Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 21:33, 28 October 2024 (UTC).
- I didn't know he was the first - this is definitely cool and DYK worthy! Blervis (talk) 04:44, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Blervis: If this is a review, make sure to follow the steps at Wikipedia:Did you know/Reviewer instructions; check the source (if possible), and make sure the article fits the DYK criteria. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 04:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Comment to the reviewer: given that this is a "first" hook, and a pretty exceptional one at that, please be sure to check if the sources adequately support the claim, and see if counterexamples can be found. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:14, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Since Blervis looks like a pretty new reviewer, and this is a hook with higher sourcing standards than usual, should I put this up for second opinion? I think that might be a good idea. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 04:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- We can have a second opinion from an experienced editor, who at the same time could try teaching Blervis the ropes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:36, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- Sounds like a good idea. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 05:17, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- We can have a second opinion from an experienced editor, who at the same time could try teaching Blervis the ropes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:36, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Since Blervis looks like a pretty new reviewer, and this is a hook with higher sourcing standards than usual, should I put this up for second opinion? I think that might be a good idea. Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 04:33, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment to the reviewer: given that this is a "first" hook, and a pretty exceptional one at that, please be sure to check if the sources adequately support the claim, and see if counterexamples can be found. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:14, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thinking about it, given how exceptional the claim is and how difficult it seems to verify it and ensure it isn't inaccurate, I would suggest proposing different angles. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 30
editKarl Thielscher
- ... that within a year of playing in the NFL for the Buffalo All-Americans, Karl Thielscher was an NFL official for All-Americans games?
- Source: played in 1920 - officiated in 1921
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anthony F. Ciampi
- Comment: QPQ to be done within 24 hours.
BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC).
7th National Eucharistic Congress (United States)
- ... that the future USS Wolverine was used as a hotel during the 7th National Eucharistic Congress in Cleveland?
- Source: "Akron School Children Plan To Attend Eucharistic Mass". The Akron Beacon Journal. Sep 24, 1935. p. 24. Retrieved 30 October 2024. "Pilgrims Shaken". The Cincinnati Post. Sep 24, 1935. p. 1. Retrieved 30 October 2024.
- ALT1: ... that the Seeandbee, later renovated into the aircraft carrier USS Wolverine, was used as a hotel during the 7th National Eucharistic Congress in Cleveland? Source: "Akron School Children Plan To Attend Eucharistic Mass". The Akron Beacon Journal. Sep 24, 1935. p. 24. Retrieved 30 October 2024. "Pilgrims Shaken". The Cincinnati Post. Sep 24, 1935. p. 1. Retrieved 30 October 2024.
- ALT2: ... that a ship used as an aircraft carrier during World War II was used as a hotel during the 7th National Eucharistic Congress in 1935? Source: "Akron School Children Plan To Attend Eucharistic Mass". The Akron Beacon Journal. Sep 24, 1935. p. 24. Retrieved 30 October 2024. "Pilgrims Shaken". The Cincinnati Post. Sep 24, 1935. p. 1. Retrieved 30 October 2024.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: I can email a PDF of the source to anyone reviewing; just shoot me an email. Open to rephrasing hooks if you have any suggestions!
~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 21:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on October 31
editGifted (2022 novella)
- ... that in 2022, all five book nominations for the Akutagawa Prize were written by women, including former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki, who wrote Gifted after her own experiences?
- Source: (Translated from Japanese to English)
Suzuki Suzumi, whose book "Gifted" (Bungeishunju) was nominated for the 167th Akutagawa Prize, says that while her unexpected background has attracted attention, it has also led to prejudice and labelling.
For the first time in history, only female writers have been nominated for the 167th Akutagawa Prize, which will be announced on July 20th. Among them, Suzuki Suzumi, who was nominated for "Gifted," made her AV debut while studying at Keio University. After that, she worked for a newspaper company and graduated from the University of Tokyo, and is now active as a writer and columnist, which has attracted attention for her unusual career.
Source: Oricon News (https://www.oricon.co.jp/special/59840/)- ALT1: ... that former adult film actress Suzumi Suzuki pivoted to writing literature in 2022 with her novel, Gifted, which became one of five books nominated for the Akutagawa Prize that year? Source: Same as first source
- Reviewed:
Phibeatrice (talk) 00:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC).
- If anything, the fact that the writer of the novel is a former adult film actress is the interesting part here, not the award (which not all readers may recognize, even if it's prestigious). Suggesting a far simpler hook:
- ALT3 ... that the 2022 novel Gifted was written by a former adult film actress?
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- Interesting to whom? I much prefer the longer hooks which give more information. "former actress writes book" is not very interesting. "former actress writes book nominated for major prize" has more to offer. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 19:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT4 ... that former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki's book Gifted was nominated for the Akutagawa Prize in 2022? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Mary Mark Ockerbloom: WP:DYKTRIM is the relevant guideline. Oftentimes, but not always, the shortest and simplest hooks are the best. There are times when hooks do need additional context, but generally speaking, we tend to target the widest audience possible with hooks that require the least amount of specialist information. The issue I have with the prize angle is that readers may not know that it is a prestigious award or even be familiar with it, making the angle less accessible. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Presumably then, they will have an added incentive to click through and find out. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT4 ... that former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki's book Gifted was nominated for the Akutagawa Prize in 2022? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
Numerous ALT hooks have been proposed: a reviewer is needed to ensure that they and this article are approved. Z1720 (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Details Cannot Body Wants
- ... that Singapore's first R-rated play was performed despite the police finding it "offensive"?
- Reviewed:
- Comment: The article mentions the Public Entertainment Licensing Unit, which is part of the Singapore Police Force. Source: https://www.police.gov.sg/e-Services/Police-Licences/Public-Entertainment-Licence
Imbluey2. Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 06:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC).
Zhu Baosan
- ... that the fortune left by Zhu Baosan (pictured) was reported to have been greatly diminished by his philanthropic activities?
- Source: "The Mourning Ceremonies for Mr. Chu Pao-san". The North-China Herald. 6 November 1926. p. 257. "Although Mr. Chu Pao-san was a successful merchant and had such numerous business interests, friends believe that he left only a small fortune, as his contributions to charity were so large."
- ALT1: ... that the business interests of Zhu Baosan (pictured) ranged from banking and insurance to shipping and coal mining? Source: "The Mourning Ceremonies for Mr. Chu Pao-san". The North-China Herald. 6 November 1926. p. 257. "He promoted the Commercial’ Bank of China, the Ningpo Commercial Bank, the Chekiang Industrial Bank and the Chung Hua Commercial. and Savings Bank. He was an organizer of the Wah An Fire and Marine Insurance Company, the Wah Sing Insurance Company, and the China United Assurance Society. He was a director of the Liu Kiang and Chang Hsin Mining Companies. He was interested in the Nantao Tramway Company, the Tinghai Electric [Construction “Company” and the Chousan Electric Company. He was a director of the Chousan Steam Navigation Company, the Yung An Steamship Company, the Yung Leo Shipping Company, 'the Chang Ko Navigation Company, the Ta Tah Navigation Company and in several other shipping interests. He was a prominent shareholder in many cotton and flour mills, pap factories and other industrial enterprises."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Flag of Falcón state (1 of 2)
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:58, 31 October 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 1
editMuseiliha inscription
- ... that the Museiliha inscription, a boundary marker from the first century AD, hints at a Roman legal judgment setting boundaries between ancient Caesarea-ad-Libanum and Gigarta?
- Source: de Ruggiero 1893, p. 443.
Louvre Museum, 2024
- ALT1: ... that the Museiliha inscription, a boundary marker from the first century AD, helped delineate ancient territories between the citizens of Caesarea-ad-Libanum and the Gigartans? Source: Renan 1864, p. 149.
Mommsen, Hirschfeld & Domaszewski 1873, p. 31, insc. 183.
Louvre Museum, 2024 - ALT2: ... that the Museiliha inscription, a boundary marker from the first century AD, is considered a rare ancient example of a documented border dispute? Source: de Ruggiero 1893, p. 443.
Louvre Museum, 2024 - ALT3: ... that the Museiliha inscription, a boundary marker from the first century AD, includes carefully erased names, likely of Roman officials? Source: Mancini 1884, pp. 71–72.
Louvre Museum, 2024 - Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Sulayman Da'ud
el.ziade (talkallam) 10:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC).
Tel al-Sultan attack
- ... that American missiles were used to bomb a displacement camp in Rafah?
- Reviewed:
Personisinsterest (talk) 12:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC).
- I'd like to propose some alternative hooks, if that's okay:
- ALT1: ... that the "Kuwaiti Peace" tent camp, struck by Israeli fighter jets, was located only 200 meters from the largest UNRWA humanitarian aid storage warehouse in the Gaza Strip? Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hamas-rockets-central-israel-gaza-strip-sirens/
- ALT2:... that a viral image showing tents in Rafah arranged to spell "All Eyes on Rafah" called for global attention to the humanitarian crisis following the Tel al-Sultan attack? Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/29/world/middleeast/all-eyes-on-rafah.html
- ALT3: ... that the Tel al-Sultan attack was the deadliest incident of the Rafah offensive? Source: https://www.axios.com/2024/05/27/rafah-tent-camp-strike-biden-israel-red-line
Articles created/expanded on November 2
editNaz Arıcı
* ... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı started ice skating from scratch at the age of 29?
- Source: "İkiz gibi büyüdüğü arkadaşı ölünce kararını verdi! 29 yaşında başladı, 5 kez şampiyon oldu", "29 yaşında sıfırdan başladığı buz pateninde 32 yaşında yetişkinler artistik buz pateni dünya şampiyonu oldu." [13]
- ALT1: ... that electrical/electronics engineer Naz Arıcı quit her profession at the age of 34 to devote herself to competitions of adult figure skating she started when she was 29? Source: "... Naz Arıcı,“İlk şampiyonluğumdan sonra 2016 da katılacağım yarışma için işimi bıraktım ..." [14]", "29 yaşında sıfırdan başladığı buz pateninde 32 yaşında yetişkinler artistik buz pateni dünya şampiyonu oldu." [15]
- ALT2: ... that Naz Arıcı paved the way to the establishment of the adult figure skating branch in Turkey in 2016? Source: " Yetişkinler dalını 2015 yılında dünyada aldığı ilk şampiyonlukla (15 ülkeden 38 kişinin katıldığı Naz’ın ilk yarışması) Türkiye’ye getirdi ve 2016 yılında ülkemize yeni bir dalın açılmasını sağladı." [16]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Arthur France
CeeGee 11:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral: - n
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - AGF
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
- Interesting:
- Other problems: - n
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: I was excited to see this bio at DYK, since I work on figure skating articles, too, and I value creating and improving fs articles, especially ones about women skaters. Such a beautiful story about adult figure skating in Turkey. However and unfortunately, I don't think that this bio is ready for the main page. The bio uses, for example, overly promotional and puffery language, such as most of the third paragraph in the "Early life" section. Much of the prose also suffers from awkward wording in English as well. The hooks for this DYK suffers from similar issues; all hooks are worded awkwardly. It's awkward in English, for example, to state that one starts something from scratch. Rather, it should read something like this: ALT3:... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı, with no previous experience, first learned how to figure skate the age of 29? Since I don't know Turkish and depend entirely on Google Translate, I'm AGF that the sources are accurately cited and worded and that there's no plagiarism. I think that if you worked on the article's prose, improving the hooks would be an easy fix. Please understand that I'm not being disrespectful, but I'm coming from a place of valuing the sport of figure skating on WP. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for your review and comment. I copyedited the article a little and replaced the original hook with following:CeeGee 05:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT3: ... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı, with no previous experience, first learned how to figure skate at the age of 29?
Eastern Venus
- ... that on the ship Eastern Venus (pictured), the "Modern" suite is not in modern style?
- Reviewed:
UserMemer (chat) Tribs 21:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- A fairly interesting and well-written article that is both new and long enough. However, I have serious reservations about its sourcing. photoguide.jp or scheepvaartwest.be or cruisewonderland.tiyogami don't strike me as the most reliable, and this article is wholly dependent on such sources. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have removed the aforementioned self-published sources and found better citations; all unsupported claims were removed. In addition, I removed "Castles of the Seas" as it is obviously self-published too. UserMemer (chat) Tribs 22:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 3
editJordan Watkins
- ... that the first time college football player Jordan Watkins had more than one touchdown in a game, he set his team's receiving touchdowns record with five?
- Source: Clarion Ledger ("Much has changed for Ole Miss football receiver Jordan Watkins recently. Two weeks ago, he had a different life perspectiv, and he'd never had a multi-touchdown game ... Watkins was a huge part of Ole Miss' offensive explosion. He had eight catches for 254 yards and five touchdowns. ... The five receiving touchdowns are also a record")
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Favre's Dad Game
- Comment: QPQ to be done within 24 hours. Open to other ways of wording the hook; interestingly I had turned the previous breaking of the record (Tre Harris) into a hook as well.
BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC).
- I'll review this. Thriley (talk) 22:35, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Moe's Books
- ... that in 2016, two thieves stole a van filled with $350,000 worth of rare books in Oakland, California, and tried to sell first editions of William Faulkner and Cormac McCarthy to Moe's Books nearby?
- Source: He’s been in the book dealing business for more than 15 years, but Lawrence Van De Carr said he’d never come across such a jewel of a title: a mint copy of Isaac Asimov’s 1950 classic “I, Robot” valued at $8,500.
That novel, once a prized possession of Van De Carr’s, is now gone, along with around 400 of his other books worth well over $350,000. Someone stole his van while it was parked outside a friend’s Oakland home this week.
Joshua Anderson, 30, went to Moe’s Books in Berkeley shortly after the bookseller’ association sent out an alert. He and an alleged accomplice had four books, valued around $14,000, that they were trying to sell, said John Wong, manager at the store.
Among the classic first-editions they were trying to deal were “A Hornbook for Witches: Poems of Fantasy” by Leah Bodine Drake, one of only 563 known copies; “No Country for Old Men” by McCarthy, “Always Comes Evening” by Robert E. Howard, and “Pylon” by William Faulkner.
Source: SFGate (https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Van-filled-with-350-000-rare-books-stolen-in-6843521.php)- Reviewed:
Phibeatrice (talk) 23:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- I'll review this. Thriley (talk) 18:18, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Ethanoligenens harbinense
- ... that bacteria can produce fuel?
- Reviewed:
Hmsuth4770 (talk) 17:52, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a 5x expansion. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 21:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
- Technically, it's not far off, but either way it's a few hundred off 1,500 characters and very stubby. I say give @Hmsuth4770: a chance.--Launchballer 22:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ian (Wiki Ed), this actually almost a 5x expansion: 235 prose characters prior to the recent edits, and 1102 at present (5x would be 1175). However, it fails to meet the 1500 prose character minimum required of every article nominated for DYK. When nominators come up short—mainly because they're not counting prose characters, which DYK check can count for you—we typically allow them to expand the nominated article, if they can do so in a timely manner. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- BlueMoonset Thanks for double-checking. I always just assume Shubinator's tool is correct on the expansion. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
- I've emailed them, because students don't always check messages all that often. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 15:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Ian (Wiki Ed) and Hmsuth4770: Please address the above.--Launchballer 02:25, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Article is now an adequate length Chaiten1 (talk) 17:35, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- That's fine. I'll let a reviewer adjudicate as to whether the stub tag is deserved.--Launchballer 17:40, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Ian (Wiki Ed) and Hmsuth4770: Please address the above.--Launchballer 02:25, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Technically, it's not far off, but either way it's a few hundred off 1,500 characters and very stubby. I say give @Hmsuth4770: a chance.--Launchballer 22:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
- The hook as currently written probably violates MOS:EGG as it suggests it's about bacteria as a whole when in fact it's talking about a specific species of bacteria. The hook will need adjustment. Note that the nominator hasn't edited since the 11th and seemingly did not respond to Ian, so the nomination may have to be closed if no one is willing to adopt this. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Ian (Wiki Ed): Following up: did they respond to your e-mail? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:34, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: - I didn't hear back from them directly, but they did make an edit to the article after that, which I assumed was a response. But I may have been wrong. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:52, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Without an active editor taking care of this nomination and being on standby/duty to address concerns, that's an issue. It's a shame since the length issues appear to have been addressed, but with no one actually active working on the article, it appears that (like many other WikiEdu student nominations), the nomination has been abandoned. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Chaiten1:, would you be interested in taking over this nomination?--Launchballer 01:26, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer: sure, will do later today!Chaiten1 (talk) 08:51, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Without an active editor taking care of this nomination and being on standby/duty to address concerns, that's an issue. It's a shame since the length issues appear to have been addressed, but with no one actually active working on the article, it appears that (like many other WikiEdu student nominations), the nomination has been abandoned. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:59, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: - I didn't hear back from them directly, but they did make an edit to the article after that, which I assumed was a response. But I may have been wrong. Ian (Wiki Ed) (talk) 14:52, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Ian (Wiki Ed): Following up: did they respond to your e-mail? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:34, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Two new hooks to consider:
- ALT1 that some bacteria can produce fuel?
- ALT2 that some bacteria can produce hydrogen from waste?
Chaiten1 (talk) 14:40, 30 November 2024 (UTC) @Launchballer:@Narutolovehinata5:
- Still too easter eggy I think. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 21:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- I don't quite follow. The page is about a species of bacteria that metabolises glucose to make hydrogen (a biofuel). So the hook seems to me to be sufficiently precise to be factually correct? Chaiten1 (talk) 21:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Although accurate, the hook suggests that it's multiple species of bacteria rather than a specific species of bacteria (which was the main hook fact), hence the EGG concerns. One possible way to fix the hook would be to simply spell out the species name, the other could be wording like "... that a species of bacteria" for precision. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 21:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you - I see this now! Three more ALTs below:
- I don't quite follow. The page is about a species of bacteria that metabolises glucose to make hydrogen (a biofuel). So the hook seems to me to be sufficiently precise to be factually correct? Chaiten1 (talk) 21:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Still too easter eggy I think. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 21:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT3 that some species of bacteria can produce fuel?
- ALT4 that some species of bacteria can produce hydrogen from waste?
- ALT5 that the bacterium Ethanoligenens harbinense can produce hydrogen?
- Might be best to stick to ALT5 for precision purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:47, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
2023 European Athletics Indoor Championships – Women's 400 metres
- ... that Femke Bol won the women's 400 metres at the 2023 European Athletics Indoor Championships (final pictured) with her third 400 metres indoor race under 50 seconds of 2023?
- Source: "1 49.26 Femke BOL 23 FEB 2000 NED 1 Omnisport, Apeldoorn (NED) (i) 19 FEB 2023 1269" / "3 49.85 Femke BOL 23 FEB 2000 NED 1 Ataköy Arena, Istanbul (TUR) (i) 04 MAR 2023 1245" / "4 49.96 Femke BOL 23 FEB 2000 NED 1f3 L'Anneau-Halle d'athlétisme de Metz, Metz (FRA) (i) 11 FEB 2023 1240" (link)
Editør (talk) 11:14, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- ALT1 ... that Femke Bol won the women's 400 metres at the 2023 European Athletics Indoor Championships (final pictured) successfully defending her 400 metres indoor title from 2021?
Source: "While Warholm likes to inflict his damage over the opening 200m, Bol’s trademark is tearing her rivals to shreds over the latter half. That was again the case here, the defending champion opening broad daylight between her and her rivals down the back straight and looking magnificently majestic as she strode to the finish in 49.85, with Klaver winning silver in 50.57 and Poland’s Anna Kielbasinska taking bronze in 51.25." (link)
– Editør (talk) 10:59, 20 November 2024 (UTC)- This DYK may be scheduled during the 2025 European Athletics Indoor Championships, with round 1 for this event on 7 March 2025. – Editør (talk) 15:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 4
editClifton House School, Harold Styan
- ... that sports teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School was a gymnast who played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? (155 characters)
- ALT1: ... that gym teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School was awarded the Order of the British Empire for services to youth, but as an old man he knocked out two lads who attacked him? (180 characters) Source: The London Gazette and as ALT0
- Reviewed: Bunt sind schon die Wälder and Helen Chaman Lall
- Comment: Clifton House School was moved to mainspace by me on 4 November 2024. Harold Styan was moved to mainspace on my behalf by admin Keith D on 18 November 2024, because my pagemover rights did not permit me to override a redirect page.
Storye book (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC).
- I'm not yet sure if I will give this a full review, so I'll just leave this as a comment for now. Although the angle provided meets DYKINT, I have reservations if it meets the guidelines. For one, both hooks may need a trimming (it might be better to focus on the "two attackers were knocked out" angle alone without mentioning the gymnast or music hall clauses). More importantly, I'm not sure if the hooks as currently written meet WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE, specifically the part about avoiding writing hooks where the bolded article is only tangentially related to the main hook fact (the hooks seem to be more about Styan than the school itself). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT0 is 155 characters. According to the link you provided about trimming, it is ideal length.
- ALT1 is 180 characters. Being 180 characters is not a trimming issue by itself.
- Styan was a big part of that school, as can be seen in the article. There is plenty of material about him in the article, because he was a big presence there. If our readers click on the bold link, they will read more about Styan there than anywhere else online. Therefore he is relevant to the hook.
- Meanwhile I'll go and find an extra hook or two, anyway. Storye book (talk) 10:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2: ... Clifton House School formed a scout pack which received an award from Lord Baden Powell for "best pack the United Kingdom"? Source: Neesam, Malcolm (26 February 1999). "Lord Baden Powell on the Stray". Harrogate Advertiser and Weekly List of the Visitors. p. 7 col.4. Retrieved 30 October 2024 – via British Newspaper Archive. "Lord Baden Powell was in Harrogate for the special purpose of presenting Peter's Pole to the Clifton House School Pack, which had won the award of best pack in the United Kingdom, an exceptional commendation".
- ALT0a: ... that sports teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above
- ALT0b: ... that Clifton House School's sports teacher Harold Styan played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above Storye book (talk) 11:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- One issue is that, while not an official rule or guidelines, it is usually discouraged to mention people without articles by name in hooks. I'm not sure how strict that practice is, but it's been brought up many times in the past. In any case, it might be necessary to remove Styan's name from the hooks. As for the trimming part, the wording I had was something like "... that a Clifton House School sports teacher knocked out two attackers in his old age?", which is more straightforward. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think your suggestion is appropriate, because this was an expensive private school, and Styan had the Order of the British Empire for his youth work. In other words, he was a hero and teacher, not a gangster. The hooks that I gave suggest that he was a complicated and interesting character, but your hook suggests that he might be just some kind of felon or that he ultimately developed dementia. If there is no specific rule against using his name, then I don't see why we should remove it. However I shall look at that section of the article and see whether there is enough there to make Styan into a separate article, then the hooks will have his name in lights, and this nom will be a double nom. Storye book (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Update. I am separating the two articles, but it will take a day or two. Thank you for your patience. Please note that the Harold Styan link is currently a redirect to Clifton House School. I shall correct that when I publish his article. Storye book (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's not a rule that's formally codified and thus not in the guidelines, but I remember it being discouraged before. I think Theleekycauldron might know about it. In any case, if the hook becomes a double nom then that particular issue becomes moot. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- see WP:DYKG#C1 theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I am not sure what you are referring to, Leeky, but the redirect is temporary on this page as explained above, and not intended for publication on the Main Page. I have nearly finished Styan's own page, and hope to publish today or tomorrow (when the redirect will resolve to a direct link). Thank you for your patience. Storye book (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me! :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- I am not sure what you are referring to, Leeky, but the redirect is temporary on this page as explained above, and not intended for publication on the Main Page. I have nearly finished Styan's own page, and hope to publish today or tomorrow (when the redirect will resolve to a direct link). Thank you for your patience. Storye book (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- see WP:DYKG#C1 theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's not a rule that's formally codified and thus not in the guidelines, but I remember it being discouraged before. I think Theleekycauldron might know about it. In any case, if the hook becomes a double nom then that particular issue becomes moot. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Update. I am separating the two articles, but it will take a day or two. Thank you for your patience. Please note that the Harold Styan link is currently a redirect to Clifton House School. I shall correct that when I publish his article. Storye book (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think your suggestion is appropriate, because this was an expensive private school, and Styan had the Order of the British Empire for his youth work. In other words, he was a hero and teacher, not a gangster. The hooks that I gave suggest that he was a complicated and interesting character, but your hook suggests that he might be just some kind of felon or that he ultimately developed dementia. If there is no specific rule against using his name, then I don't see why we should remove it. However I shall look at that section of the article and see whether there is enough there to make Styan into a separate article, then the hooks will have his name in lights, and this nom will be a double nom. Storye book (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- One issue is that, while not an official rule or guidelines, it is usually discouraged to mention people without articles by name in hooks. I'm not sure how strict that practice is, but it's been brought up many times in the past. In any case, it might be necessary to remove Styan's name from the hooks. As for the trimming part, the wording I had was something like "... that a Clifton House School sports teacher knocked out two attackers in his old age?", which is more straightforward. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Harold Styan now has his own article, so his name is now bolded in the hooks. Admin, please could we now have this as a double nom? BlueMoonset? Mandarax? Maile66? Thank you. (
I shall shortly provide a QPQ for the Harold Styan articleUpdate: second review done. See "reviewed" section above).Storye book (talk) 11:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)- The second article has been integrated into the nomination template. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, Mandarax! Storye book (talk) 18:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Both articles are now ready for review. Storye book (talk) 11:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
James Michael Reardon
- ... that after he failed to come home for dinner, Rev. James Michael Reardon's assistant priests found he had died in the Basilica of Saint Mary while praying the rosary?
- Source: "Msgr. Reardon, St. Mary's Pastor, Dies". The Minneapolis Star. 13 December 1963.
- ALT1: ... that despite knowing nothing about journalism, The Catholic Bulletin's founding editor Rev. James Michael Reardon (pictured) established a paid subscriber base of 25,000? Source: "Catholic Bulletin Is 50 Years Old". The Minneapolis Star. 7 January 1961. p. 7A. Retrieved 5 November 2024.
- ALT2: ... that Rev. James Michael Reardon (pictured) was called "the last of the clerical gentlemen"? Source: "Monsignor Reardon". The Minneapolis Star. 14 December 1963. Retrieved 4 November 2024.
- ALT3: ... that Rev. James Michael Reardon (pictured) wrote "the most comprehensive" history book of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis? Source: Hopfensperger, Jean (Mar 21, 1988). "Area Catholic churches mark century of service". pp. 7B. Retrieved 5 November 2024.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/St Francis of Assisi Church, Notting Hill
~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 02:56, 5 November 2024 (UTC).
Pro-Fatimid conspiracy against Saladin
- ... that the members of an alleged conspiracy to overthrow Saladin and restore the Fatimid Caliphate are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?
- Source: summary of the entire article
Constantine ✍ 19:27, 4 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: Not a review but the hook can be made better. Doesn't seem appealing enough but there's an underlying interest. All the best! Regards, Aafi (talk) 18:14, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Cplakidas: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer and Aafi: what am I supposed to address? If there is any specific criticism or suggestion for improvement, I'll gladly consider it, but 'can be made better' or 'not appealing enough' is little to go on. The fact that Muslims would make common cause with the Crusaders, or with a sect known as 'Assassins' of all things, is IMO plenty interesting, especially compared to many other hooks I have encountered in DYK in the past. Constantine ✍ 17:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- as I said in my comment (not a review) but I do agree that the latter part "are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?" is pretty much interesting. The initial part didn't appeal to me and I dropped a comment. Up to you or a reviewer, to work on this. This wasn't a serious review but a simple suggestions that this could be worked upon. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Aafi for clarifying. How about ALT1 ... that the members of an abortive conspiracy to restore the Fatimid Caliphate are said to have asked the Order of Assassins for assistance in eliminating Saladin? Constantine ✍ 10:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- as I said in my comment (not a review) but I do agree that the latter part "are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?" is pretty much interesting. The initial part didn't appeal to me and I dropped a comment. Up to you or a reviewer, to work on this. This wasn't a serious review but a simple suggestions that this could be worked upon. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer and Aafi: what am I supposed to address? If there is any specific criticism or suggestion for improvement, I'll gladly consider it, but 'can be made better' or 'not appealing enough' is little to go on. The fact that Muslims would make common cause with the Crusaders, or with a sect known as 'Assassins' of all things, is IMO plenty interesting, especially compared to many other hooks I have encountered in DYK in the past. Constantine ✍ 17:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Cplakidas: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 5
editOasis (Minecraft clone)
- ... that Oasis has been described as a "haunted" version of Minecraft? Source:[17]
- ALT1: ... that Oasis, a clone of Minecraft, runs using no code? Source:[18]
- ALT2: ... that Oasis, a clone of Minecraft, is run entirely using artificial intelligence? Source:[19]
- ALT3: ... that an AI-generated Minecraft clone has been described as an early glimpse at the future of video games? Source:[20]
- Reviewed:
Loytra (talk) 13:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment The disambiguation is incorrect - if this is considered a video game, then per WP:NCVGDAB it should be (2024 video game) instead (since there is already a 2005 video game of the same name). That said, I am not sure I would consider it a video game, given that it does not work according to anything but dream logic, and is more of a vague approximation of a game. Therefore, (simulation) or (AI simulation) could be a better disambiguation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- If it's not clear exactly what Oasis is, then why would the disambiguation be considered incorrect? The software is most notable for being a clone of Minecraft, surely that should be mentioned in the title for clarity sake? Hell, half the time it's referred to as "AI Minecraft" rather than its actual name. Loytra (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- It is incorrect because "Minecraft clone" is overly specific and therefore goes against disambiguation guidelines. It is like using (black dog with long fur and floppy ears) instead of (dog). It must be made more broad, whether by calling it "video game" or "simulation". Furthermore, calling it a "clone" may in fact be incorrect. It is literally Minecraft, as played by interpreting the game through an AI, whereas "clone" is typically used to describe games that are similar to, but not identical to another. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the sources referenced in the article describe it as a "version of Minecraft" or simply "AI-generated Minecraft". It really isn't commonly referred to as "Oasis"; I don't think most people would recognise the software if it was under the title "Oasis (2024 video game)" or "Oasis (simulation)". Imo it has to have "Minecraft" in the title. I know naming conventions are pretty strict but I'd almost argue that this is an WP:IAR situation. Loytra (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- I can confidently say it's not an IAR situation. After looking at the sources more, I am convinced that (AI model) is the best DAB for this as it is first and foremost a model that can be "played" using a game interface. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the sources referenced in the article describe it as a "version of Minecraft" or simply "AI-generated Minecraft". It really isn't commonly referred to as "Oasis"; I don't think most people would recognise the software if it was under the title "Oasis (2024 video game)" or "Oasis (simulation)". Imo it has to have "Minecraft" in the title. I know naming conventions are pretty strict but I'd almost argue that this is an WP:IAR situation. Loytra (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- It is incorrect because "Minecraft clone" is overly specific and therefore goes against disambiguation guidelines. It is like using (black dog with long fur and floppy ears) instead of (dog). It must be made more broad, whether by calling it "video game" or "simulation". Furthermore, calling it a "clone" may in fact be incorrect. It is literally Minecraft, as played by interpreting the game through an AI, whereas "clone" is typically used to describe games that are similar to, but not identical to another. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- If it's not clear exactly what Oasis is, then why would the disambiguation be considered incorrect? The software is most notable for being a clone of Minecraft, surely that should be mentioned in the title for clarity sake? Hell, half the time it's referred to as "AI Minecraft" rather than its actual name. Loytra (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. I don't think arguing over the title should block this from DYK. Only truly egregiously wrong titles would cause that kind of problem, and the current title is clearly not that bad - as noted, the COMMONNAME is something like "AI Minecraft". (And I don't think the case is as open-and-shut as Zxc thinks it is, either.) Zxc, you should file a WP:RM and see what the community thinks IMO. SnowFire (talk) 19:21, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. Its now time to keep discussion in this template related to DYK reviews and any discussion about the name of this article, should take place via an RM and any discussion about improving this article should take place at the relevant talk page. Article titles are outside the scope of a DYK review. side note: sounds like I'm a forum moderator at this point JuniperChill (talk) 16:19, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
A reviewer is needed for this nomination. Z1720 (talk) 15:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Abortion in Kyrgyzstan
- ... that although abortion in Kyrgyzstan is legal, many women refuse to go through with it as it is considered haram in Islamic law?
- Reviewed:
-Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 15:41, 5 November 2024 (UTC).
- @PhoenixCaelestis: The article looks good. No copyvios. QPQ not needed. Hook is interesting. I would add a link to haram. In the sources I was unable to find the part that said that it is haram, and that women refuse to do it for this reason. I see that part about that woman in Osh, but the source doesn't say the "haram" bit. Could you provide one that does say "haram" please? ―Panamitsu (talk) 05:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Panamitsu: I've added a link to haram, and here's a source for the part on whether or not abortion is haram. It is from the Australian National Imams Council, an organization of mosque leaders.
https://www.anic.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/THE-ISLAMIC-POSITION-ON-ABORTION.pdf
―PhoenixCaelestis (talk) 07:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PhoenixCaelestis: Thank you for working on this article. The source you suggest states the formal position as haram, but I do not see information in the article or the source you added to support the statement "that women refuse to do it for this reason". You need statistics if you want to support this claim. The only case mentioned is one woman doctor who says that she is now afraid to counsel people about abortion. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:18, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Mary Mark Ockerbloom: I've added two more sources to the article to back the claim, and I will provide them here as well.
https://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/Review/responses/KYRGYZSTAN-English.pdf https://europe.ippf.org/blogs/kyrgyzstans-cocktail-conservatism-and-apathy-bitter-draught-women
-Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PhoenixCaelestis: The new sources generally talk about culture and issues in medical care for women, but I don't see that either one clearly presents either a claim or evidence that many women refuse to go through with abortion because it is considered haram. One source even comments (without data?) that women may be more likely to get abortions because contraception is costly. The sources are also not very current. I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I think you'll need to either rephrase the hook or find more explicit sources that clearly support what you state. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 17:02, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- The hook is very unlikely to be true. In addition to what Mary Mark Ockerbloom wrote, I should also note that the claim that abortion is haram is in itself either misleading or outright incorrect, as explained by Islam and abortion. Each of the four Sunni schools considers abortion permitted but under different circumstances, and the dominant school in Kyrgyzstan is the one that is most permitting regarding abortion. Surtsicna (talk) 23:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PhoenixCaelestis: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 15:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- How about something like "...that although abortion in Kyrgyzstan is legal, it faces significant challenges in the public view?" It might be a little awkwardly worded, but I think it fits the evidence I have best. If you all still have problems or suggestions please just let me know. -Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 14:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC).
- Isn't that rather common even in some countries where abortion is legal? Even where it is legal, there is often a stigma around it. I don't see how that's limited to Kyrgyzstan. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PhoenixCaelestis: Per my above comment, this probably needs a completely different angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Isn't that rather common even in some countries where abortion is legal? Even where it is legal, there is often a stigma around it. I don't see how that's limited to Kyrgyzstan. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Given issues with the article and the hooks proposed, as well as the nominator not responding to the above request to propose a new hook despite a ping, marking for closure. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Gohobi
- ... that the Japanese band Gohobi describes themselves as having a tofu mentality? Source: [21] ("「自信がなくて何が悪い 男女混声豆腐メンタル五人組」")
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ivan Ivan (ice hockey)
- Comment: Up to the reviewer if there should be quotes around "tofu mentality".
Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC).
- @Narutolovehinata5:, Thanks for the article. This is a suggestion: could you expand the article slightly to give some idea of what it means to have a "tofu mentality"? For those of us who won't be able to read the original sources if we click through, the current Wikipedia article gives no explanation of the hook. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, the sources regarding the band only use "tofu mentality" without further elaboration (other than it was a term they gave to themselves), so I can't really add more to the article without doing original research. Technically, in Japanese, the term "tofu mentality" means something similar to what English speakers would call a "snowflake", although the article uses a literal translation of "豆腐メンタル" rather than the translated version (which is probably still accurate since the literal meaning is correct in Japanese). The full explanation about what the term means would probably not work for the band's article since it would delve into original research or even WP:COAT, but that's the explanation for context. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- jp:豆腐メンタル maps to Snowflake (slang), so maybe a piped link to Snowflake (slang) in the hook would suffice?
- have created redirect for tofu mentality, and updating hook below -Bogger (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT0A... that the Japanese band Gohobi describes themselves as having a tofu mentality? (same source) -Bogger (talk) 14:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)- I actually think the link would distract from the main article and divert clicks, so linking in the hook might not be a good idea. Should be fine for the article, though. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- "tofu mentality" ..? -Bogger (talk) 09:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I mentioned in the original nomination comment that I'd leave it to the reviewer if "tofu mentality" should have quotes or not since I wasn't sure if they were necessary. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I actually think the link would distract from the main article and divert clicks, so linking in the hook might not be a good idea. Should be fine for the article, though. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- have created redirect for tofu mentality, and updating hook below -Bogger (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 6
editDostrotime
- ... that a music video for a song on Dostrotime was made with a real oscilloscope?
- Source: On 23 January 2024, the music video for the lead single "Wendorlan" was released on YouTube. The visuals for the music video were made by Jenkinson himself, using an oscilloscope. It was filmed in one take and, according to Jenkinson, he used "custom processing to generate the XY signal from components of track audio and control data". https://thequietus.com/news/squarepusher-wendorlan/
- Reviewed:
Beachweak (talk) 12:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 7
editOrganization of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
- ... that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is organized into centers descended from ones created in 1980, except for two founded in 1914 and in 1899?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Maria Muntañola Cvetković
- Comment: Since NIOSH is part of CDC, I have a COI and I request an experienced editor to check the article.
John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 00:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review, but the hook as currently written doesn't seem to be very interesting. At the very least it doesn't seem to meet WP:DYKINT. Can different hooks be proposed here? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Petergofsky District
- ... that between February and August 1918 the Petergofsky District mobilized more than 20 combat units for the Red Army?
- Source: M. Mitelʹman. Борьба партии большевиков за упрочение советской власти (1917- 1918 гг.). Политиздат при ЦК ВКП(б), 1940. p. 20
Soman (talk) 23:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC).
Bunt sind schon die Wälder
- ...
that the melody for the song "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) that Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) created in 1799 has remained popular?Source: [26]- Reviewed: David Hilchen
Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC).
- I shall review this. Storye book (talk) 10:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Thank you for this interesting article. I would like to hear this one. A few comments:
- Earwig finds only quotations and proper names. No problem there.
- The hook citation (above) for ALT0 was not in the article, so I added it there. I also gave the article a very minor copyedit. That does not affect this DYK review.
One issue: The citation given above for ALT0 does not confirm popularity. Popularity is mentioned in the name of the website, but not in the main text of the website. Also, the website name says (if I understand correctly) "popular and traditional lieder", so according to that, this piece could be in traditional style (which does not imply popularity). So I think we need to EITHER find another citation OR another hook.Storye book (talk) 11:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Storye book: Not really a fan of the proposed hook, since the context given does not seem to make it clear why it is important that it has remained popular, and the context of it remaining popular is not clear (what is intended by "remained popular"?). I was going to suggest a hook involving Schubert, but the meaning of "different setting" is not clear: does it mean he wrote another melody to the song, or that Reichardt's melody was later re-used by Schubert? If it's the latter then perhaps that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- The wording I had in mind was something like "... that the melody of "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) was later used by Franz Schubert?", but I'm not sure if that was the intended context of the "Schubert wrote a different setting" part. That suggestion could probably still be worked on, I just threw it out here for brainstorming purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you - both - for thinking. I am open to rewording. Grammar: in German, "und" says that something is both, both traditional and popular", - if it was only one, German would use "oder". As you will have seen, there were multiple melodies, before and after, but this is the one in most publications, recorded, sung. Take Hannes Wader, a singer-songwriter himself: singing that old melody. (yt at the bottom) - Schubert wrote a different setting (= different melody + different piano), which didn't become popular, - note that only one of the uses mentioned has his version, - it remained for art singers and higher school education. What word would you choose instead of "popular" for: is the one that people know and sing? Schubert is really only a side note here, his setting didn't get popular in any sense, it's not Erlkönig. I didn't know he wrote a melody, but now he wrote 700 (as DYK once informed us). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Would it help to add that it was recorded among the "80 most popular Volkslieder" [27]. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- The new reference given by Gerda Arendt is satisfactory, and it explains the meaning of popularity in the article's context. Gerda, could you please give us an ALT1, and put the
new sentence andcitation in the article? Thank you. Storye book (talk) 08:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)- Storye bookYou mean a sentence about that collection? (In another nom, someone mentioned "promotional". Anyway, ref added, which supports "remained popular. Will search for more. As a little gift: a children's tv version ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- I added two more indications of popularity, a 2011 poll and a 2017 collection. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT0a: ... that the Volkslied "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) has remained popular with the 1799 melody by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured)?- to avoid the impression that only the melody remained popular. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
Thank you, Gerda. The citation is now in the article, and I approve ALT0a, with image. Storye book (talk) 09:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- The new reference given by Gerda Arendt is satisfactory, and it explains the meaning of popularity in the article's context. Gerda, could you please give us an ALT1, and put the
- The wording I had in mind was something like "... that the melody of "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) was later used by Franz Schubert?", but I'm not sure if that was the intended context of the "Schubert wrote a different setting" part. That suggestion could probably still be worked on, I just threw it out here for brainstorming purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Storye book: Not really a fan of the proposed hook, since the context given does not seem to make it clear why it is important that it has remained popular, and the context of it remaining popular is not clear (what is intended by "remained popular"?). I was going to suggest a hook involving Schubert, but the meaning of "different setting" is not clear: does it mean he wrote another melody to the song, or that Reichardt's melody was later re-used by Schubert? If it's the latter then perhaps that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Pulling this per this discussion. Jlwoodwa raised concerns that the hook was hard to understand. In addition, the hook at best probably borderline meets WP:DYKINT. Some possible alternative suggestions:
ALT1 ... that "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" placed second in a 2011 poll by MDR on the most beautiful Volkslied?ALT1a ... that "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" placed second in a 2011 poll by MDR on the most beautiful German folk song?
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
for ALT 1 or 1a, subject to Gerda Arendt's approval.Storye book (talk) 09:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)- I am sorry that I wrote so misleading. Not true. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: As far as I can see, you have not written anything misleading or untrue. Please explain? Thanks.
- Regarding the word, "popular", in the discussion someone appeared confused by the word, presumably because they lived in a world so narrow that they did not know that "popular music" is a subsidiary meaning of "popular", which has for hundreds of years just meant that a lot of people liked something. Storye book (talk) 10:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- The poll had 20 suggestions without Herbstlied. IT was No. 2 of the additional ones. - Please word for me. A song with a 1799 tune is still popular. The song hast a longish title in German, which I thought was good to translate. The title could mean anything, so we have to say what it is if you ask me. As you will not have noticed the hook is a bit quirky because with a composed melody it's not what you'd expect a Volkslied to be. Why would we not credit the composer who won over Schubert in popularity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2 ... that the folk-style melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" was composed long ago by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) and it is still liked by many?
ALT1b .... that radio listeners voted "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" second in their suggested list of the most beautiful German folk songs?(See Gerda's comment above, regarding this one). Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)- Third party required to approve ALT2
and/or ALT1bonly. Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)- I think ALT1b would get us into trouble with ERRORS because it's more No. 22, and tough to explain with the 20 from the station. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- The poll had 20 suggestions without Herbstlied. IT was No. 2 of the additional ones. - Please word for me. A song with a 1799 tune is still popular. The song hast a longish title in German, which I thought was good to translate. The title could mean anything, so we have to say what it is if you ask me. As you will not have noticed the hook is a bit quirky because with a composed melody it's not what you'd expect a Volkslied to be. Why would we not credit the composer who won over Schubert in popularity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- I am sorry that I wrote so misleading. Not true. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
I really don't think ALT2 as currently written is going to work out. It's rather vague and basically says "did you know that this song written long ago is still popular?", which actually isn't all that uncommon. It would be like a hook saying "that the folk song "Yankee Doodle" from the 1700s remains popular?" I still think something about the poll would be the best option here, although if that really can't work out then either a completely different angle be suggested here, or the nomination be rejected for lack of a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- And I really don't think that slamming down the hopes of a nomination which bores you (and bores you alone, so far) is a constructive way to contribute. If this subject matter bores you, go and contribute to a nomination about your own favourite music, sport or whatever, and leave us to work productively on this one. Thank you.
- Controversy about which tune is the "right" one for a favourite set of verses can be a powerful force, and can cause concerts to be spoiled or cancelled. For example, in the UK (and possibly Europe, I don't know), a favoured tune for Psalm 23 is Crimond. There are many competing tunes for it, including Brother James' Air, which allows more fancy choral settings. However, when some people (including me) hear that tune used instead of Crimond, they become very angry. There is nothing wrong with Brother James' Air, but Crimond is loved for sentimental reasons. I can assure you that the subject matter of ALT 2 is far from boring. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT3 ... that the melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder", composed by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured), is still preferred by many, even though the famous Franz Schubert wrote a tune for it? (176 characters)
- Third party approval still required for ALT2 and/or ALT3. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- We could go with some variation of ALT3 (we probably need to reject ALT2 however due to WP:DYKINT reasons). However, the issue with ALT3 is that it is not directly stated in the article or the source (there is nothing in the article that directly says that people prefer Recihardt's version, just that it exists and is popular while one by Schubert exists). If that could be addressed, ALT3 would be a suitable option.
- As for the "bores me" aspect, for what it's worth, Gerda's nominations and hooks have long had a reputation among several DYK regulars (not just me) for failing to meet the interestingness criterion, so it's not just me who has raised concerns. Other editors such as 4meter4 and CurryTime7-24 (incidentally both also classical music experts) have also raised concerns about her nominations and hooks in the past. While one could argue that DYKINT is by its nature a subjective criterion, the fact that Gerda's reputation exists, along with how the current wording of DYKINT was a direct response to one of her nominations, can't be discounted. For what it's worth, I have no issue with classical music as a topic itself and there have been plenty of acceptable hooks about the field from Gerda and other editors like 4meter4 and CurryTime among others. The issue has usually been the hooks themselves, not the field. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Are there any citations available, to support ALT3? Or is there any content in the existing citations, which could be added to the article in support of ALT3? Storye book (talk) 13:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Broadly speaking, classical music is that European vocal and orchestral music composed mostly in the 17th and 18th centuries, the name being reflective of that era's interest in the classical arts, such as Palladian architecture. Classical music tends to be emotionally controlled, with certain formal rules. Then you get transitional composers such as Beethoven who take the mickey out of classical music and play with more emotional stuff. Full-blown 19th-century orchestral music, and music for trained singers at that time in Europe, is called Romantic music, partly because it breaks with the previous century's emotional control. So we are not dealing here on this nom with classical music. It is music from the Romantic era. The confusion arises from today's usage of the word, "classical", where it has come to mean "not pop music". That is to say, when used in that way, the word has little real meaning. Storye book (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- (ec) Packing for return trip. Will be about a day. Hate editing mobile. - Sorry, Schubert takes us too far away. The 2 melodies don't compare. Schubert's is an art song, with no chance to become popular. The composer of such a successful thing deserves mentioning by name, imho. - After edit conflict: indeed, Not classical, but POPULAR. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Broadly speaking, classical music is that European vocal and orchestral music composed mostly in the 17th and 18th centuries, the name being reflective of that era's interest in the classical arts, such as Palladian architecture. Classical music tends to be emotionally controlled, with certain formal rules. Then you get transitional composers such as Beethoven who take the mickey out of classical music and play with more emotional stuff. Full-blown 19th-century orchestral music, and music for trained singers at that time in Europe, is called Romantic music, partly because it breaks with the previous century's emotional control. So we are not dealing here on this nom with classical music. It is music from the Romantic era. The confusion arises from today's usage of the word, "classical", where it has come to mean "not pop music". That is to say, when used in that way, the word has little real meaning. Storye book (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Are there any citations available, to support ALT3? Or is there any content in the existing citations, which could be added to the article in support of ALT3? Storye book (talk) 13:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 8
editDeath of Milton King
- ... that Caribbean dockworkers started some of the first multinational anti-apartheid protests in the wake of Milton King's death?
- Source: Source 1: Cobley, Alan Gregor (June 1992). "'Far from home': the origins and significance of the Afro‐Caribbean community in South Africa to 1930". Journal of Southern African Studies. 18 (2): 349–370. doi:10.1080/03057079208708318. Source 2: "West Indies Boycott South African Goods". Rand Daily Mail. Johannesburg, South Africa. October 10, 1951. p. 4.
- ALT1: ... that 5 percent of Barbados's entire population turned out to protest the death of Milton King while under Cape Town police officers' custody? Source: Source 1: "10,000 Joined Protest March". The Barbados Advocate. Bridgetown, Barbados. August 26, 1951. p. 12. Source 2: United Nations. 1951 Demographic Yearbook (PDF) (1951 ed.). New York: Statistical Office of the United Nations. p. 95. Retrieved 31 July 2024.
- ALT2: ... that a sailor standing up to police harassment led to some of the first multinational anti-apartheid protests? Source: Source 1: Cobley, Alan Gregor (June 1992). "'Far from home': the origins and significance of the Afro‐Caribbean community in South Africa to 1930". Journal of Southern African Studies. 18 (2): 349–370. doi:10.1080/03057079208708318. Source 2: "Policeman Charged in Death of Milton King". The Barbados Advocate. Bridgetown, Barbados. British United Press. June 15, 1951. p. 3.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Apologies for being a tad delayed on nomination. My first GA. Very open to feedback on hooks, etc.
SunTunnels (talk) 01:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC).
Artur Bubnevych
- ... that Ruthenian Catholic bishop Artur Bubnevych earned a degree in Gaming?
- Reviewed: Template: Did you know nominations/Thomas Curnow
- Comment: off-site help with hook provided by User:Darth Stabro
Maximilian775 (talk) 20:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: the subject of the article will not be a bishop until 28 Jan 2025; the hook can either be held until then, or rephrased to say "bishop-elect". ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 01:37, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
Canaanite ivory comb
- ... that the Canaanite ivory comb that contains the earliest sentence in a phonetic alphabet was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?
- Reviewed:
- Comment: An image would be excellent for this entry. The images are there in the internet but I have been unable to find a suitable one that can be uploaded to commons with proper licensing. Please help me find/upload a picture for this artifact.
❯❯❯ Raydann(Talk) 20:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: So, between 2004 and 2010 or so, I did a lot of reading about artifacts like this. It turns out that it is extremely common for items like this to be set aside for years, decades, perhaps even a century or more, before someone comes along and decides to give them a second look. I only bring this up because while I like your hook, I could see others objecting to it as mundane. Viriditas (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- While I get the point of the hook, it's a bit hard to read. Maybe something along the lines of:
- ALT1 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb contains the earliest-known sentence in a phonetic alphabet?
- ALT2 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?
- Basically, splitting the original hook into two separate hooks. ALT2 lacks context, but arguably it might encourage a reader to click and learn why it was an important discovery. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- While I get the point of the hook, it's a bit hard to read. Maybe something along the lines of:
Jim Rivaldo
- ... that Jim Rivaldo consulted political campaigns for Harvey Milk in the 1970s and Kamala Harris in 2003?
- Source: [28] Politics was as much a passion as a job for Jim Rivaldo, a veteran San Francisco political consultant who worked campaigns for candidates ranging from Harvey Milk and Ella Hill Hutch to Supervisor Bevin Dufty and District Attorney Kamala Harris.
- ALT1: ... that gay political consultant Jim Rivaldo "used to think that all gay people were hairdressers"? Source: [29] “I used to think that all gay people were hairdressers,” Rivaldo said.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Robot Alley
— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC).
- "Consulted for" or "on", surely? Johnbod (talk) 04:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 9
editThe Heart Knows its Own Bitterness (Talmud)
- ... that a Talmudic passage, "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness", is used in Jewish medical ethics to justify patient autonomy?
- Source: current footnote 12: Berger, Zackary; Cahan, Rabbi Joshua (2016). "Patient Autonomy in Talmudic Context: The Patient's "I Must Eat" on Yom Kippur in the Light of Contemporary Bioethics". Journal of Religion and Health. 55 (5): 1778–1785: "Here, we analyze a discussion in the Mishna, a foundational text of rabbinic Judaism, regarding patient autonomy in the setting of religiously mandated fasting, and commentaries in the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds, finding both a more expansive notion of such autonomy and a potential metaphysical grounding for it in the importance of patient self-knowledge."
- ALT1: ... that a Talmudic passage, "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness", has been used to justify a rabbinic law project by and for transgender Jews? Source: current fn #5: Soloman, Laynie; Pearce, Russell G. (2022). "'Nothing about Us without Us': Toward a Liberatory Heterodox Halakha". Touro L. Rev. 37: 1769–1836 – via HeinOnline: ""The heart alone knows its bitterness" is not simply a mantra about the essential power of individuals to dictate their medical needs when confronted with a disputing party. This statement, as we have seen, becomes an interpretive principle that we can utilize to articulate a truth at the center of a vision of a liberatory Heterodox halakha that attempts to center the needs, realities, experiences, and expertise of the community from which it emerges. (1830)... The approaches to Heterodox halakhathat we have described thus far are the ideologies that ground the Trans Halakha Project, a recent initiative that "aims to curate existing resources that have been developed for trans Jews and by trans Jews..." (1832)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Elin Falk
- Comment: I'm very sorry, I lost track of the timing (because I put wrong creation date on my user page)! It's a few days over. But the hooks are short and clearly sourced, so hopefully easy to review.
ProfGray (talk) 14:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC).
Murakami T
- ... that Haruki Murakami once wrote an entire book of photos and essays about his T-shirt collection, titled Murakami T, when he wasn't "in the mood to write fiction"?
- Source: I find it difficult to write fiction unless I tell myself, Okay, time to write some fiction! When I’m not in the mood to write fiction, I end up at my desk just simply writing. Like a musician practicing his instrument. Since writing is something I simply enjoy doing. That’s how this T-shirt book came about. I enjoyed writing it, and I hope people find it equally enjoyable to read.
- https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2021/10/haruki-murakami-puts-his-massive-t-shirt-collection-on-display
- ALT1: ... that Haruki Murakami owns so many T-shirts that he collects them in "stacked-up cardboard boxes" and ended up publishing an entire book about them titled Murakami T? Source: T-shirts are one of those things which naturally pile up. They’re cheap, so whenever an interesting one catches my eye I buy it. People give me various novelty T-shirts from around the world, I get commemorative T-shirts whenever I run a marathon, and when I travel I often pick up a few, instead of bringing along extra clothes. Which is why the number of T-shirts in my life has skyrocketed, to the point where there’s no room in my drawers anymore and I have to store the overflow in stacked-up cardboard boxes.https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/27/an-accidental-collection
- Reviewed:
Phibeatrice (talk) 06:39, 9 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 10
editJill, Duchess of Hamilton
- ... that Jill, Duchess of Hamilton donated her body to science because "funerals are a bore"?
- ALT1: ... that when asked about the proper form of address for a divorced duchess, Jill, Duchess of Hamilton replied, "I have absolutely no bloody idea, and please don't tell me"? Source: [31]
- ALT2: ... that in her PhD thesis Jill, Duchess of Hamilton uncovered how Christian women in Israel change churches to get a divorce–because Israel does not allow civil divorce? Source: [32]
Surtsicna (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral: - I think consistently referring to Robertson as "the duchess",
both in the title andthroughout the article, despite her dislike for the title and her specific request for it to be removed from her byline, might cross the line of neutrality for me. Otherwise, it's all good. - Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
---|
|
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: The DYK submission itself looks good, I particularly like ALT0 and ALT1, and for the most part the article is quite good. But I can't help but feel like the use of the "duchess" title throughout the article and in the title crosses the line of non-neutrality, due to her explicit rejection of the title. This is really my main issue with it. Grnrchst (talk) 16:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Grnrchst, by the time she reached the height of her career she had not been called Robertson for over 30 years. She did not reject the title. She merely asked that it be removed from her byline. The Guardian, for example, gives her byline as "Jill Hamilton" but still calls her "duchess of Hamilton" in the description; the Catholic Herald just sticks with "Jill, Duchess of Hamilton". "Jill, Duchess of Hamilton" remains by far the most common name for her in reliable sources, including the obituaries cited in the article. I am not opposed to substituting some of the duchesses with "Hamilton", however. Surtsicna (talk) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Surtsicna: Thanks for the clarification. Per WP:COMMONNAME, I've struck my concerns about the title. I think "the duchess" could safely be replaced in most cases with personal pronouns (she/her), as there's not any ambiguity introduced that requires us to continue repeating who we're talking about. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
Planting a Rainbow
- ... that the children's picture book Planting a Rainbow has a gardening theme? Source: pretty much any ref used, for example https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/lois-ehlert/planting-a-rainbow/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Głos Kolejarzy Ewakuowanych — Golos Evakuirovannykh Zheleznodorozhnikov
- Comment: I could not think of a more interesting hook... feel free to suggest stuff.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC).
- ALT1 ... that the children's picture book Planting a Rainbow has been praised for both its "deft use of colors" and the educational identification of seeds, bulbs, sprouts and blossoms? I don't have access to the source to confirm it, but this might be a possible alt. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Nazareth Hall Preparatory Seminary
- Source: Zyskowski, Bob, ed. (July 9, 1992). "Stories will fly at Naz Hall reunion this fall" (PDF). The Catholic Bulletin. Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis. p. 2. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2024-11-07. Retrieved 2024-11-10.
- ALT1: ... that the altar and baldachin of Nazareth Hall Preparatory Seminary (pictured) were relocated to the Church of Saint Michael in St. Michael, Minnesota? Source: Wiering, Maria (January 14, 2010). Towalski, Joe (ed.). "Liturgical object re-use 'keeps church's sacred art alive'" (PDF). The Catholic Spirit. Vol. 15, no. 1. Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis. p. 23. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2024-11-10. Retrieved 9 November 2024.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nathania Ong
- Comment: Photo only for ALT1 hook
~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 14:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review, but ALT0, while a catchy hook, is ineligible because the fact is not mentioned within the article for Naz Hall itself (and, beyond that, is not directly backed up by the included source). Leafy46 (talk) 15:58, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Hold Your Hand (film)
- ... that the film Hold Your Hand was based on the author's experiences after getting arrested in 2013?
- Reviewed:
Warm Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 10:11, 10 November 2024 (UTC).
- @Miminity: Not a review, but the hook fails WP:DYKHOOKBLP.--Launchballer 13:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 11
editArtificial intelligence rhetoric
- ... that Kevin Roose wrote a viral article about artificial intelligence rhetoric after an AI bot attempted to convince him to leave his wife?
paul2520 💬 15:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 12
editAlien: Romulus
- ... that Alien: Romulus (2024) starred Ian Holm (pictured) who had died four years earlier in 2020?
- ALT1: ... that Alien: Romulus (2024) starred an actor (pictured) who died in 2020? Source: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240820-why-people-are-upset-about-the-surprise-cameo-in-alien-romulus
- ALT2: ... that the decision to digitally include the late Ian Holm (pictured) in Alien: Romulus (2024) was described as "a disgraceful act of grave robbery or necromancy"? Source: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240820-why-people-are-upset-about-the-surprise-cameo-in-alien-romulus
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Walter G. Benz Jr.
Lankyant (talk) 03:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC).
- ** ALT3: ... that The Offspring in Alien: Romulus (2024) was played by a 2.31 m (7 ft 7 in) tall Romanian former basket player?Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2024/08/17/alien-romulus-spoilers-ending-plot/74766600007/
- Review: Article is long enough, hook is interesting, but the source (BBC) does not say that the film "starred" Ian Holm, but rather used a CGI image of him (this is also written in the article). Can we tweak the hook to reflect what the source exactly says? Ippantekina (talk) 04:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
2007 Greensburg tornado
- ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado was the first EF5-rated tornado to hit the United States? Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267555392_Damage_survey_of_the_Greensburg_KS_tornado
- ALT1: ... that Greensburg, Kansas, after being hit by the 2007 Greensburg tornado, was rebuilt with the goal of making it a "green town"? Source: https://www.nrel.gov/buildings/assets/pdfs/53539.pdf
- ALT2: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado devastated Greensburg, Kansas, leaving 95% of the town damaged to some degree? Source: https://www.nrel.gov/buildings/assets/pdfs/53539.pdf
- ALT3: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado was one of only nine EF5-rated tornadoes to touch down in the United States? Source: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/f5torns.html
- ALT4: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado was 1.7 miles (2.7 km) wide? Source: https://www.greensburgks.org/community/pages/2007-ef5-tornado
- ALT5: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado had up to ten smaller tornadoes rotating around it? Source: https://data.cincinnati.com/tornado-archive/kansas/37297/
- ALT6: ... that after hitting Greensburg, Kansas, the 2007 Greensburg tornado looped around, almost hitting the town again? Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267555392_Damage_survey_of_the_Greensburg_KS_tornado
- ALT7: ... that Greensburg, a documentary series about recovery efforts following the 2007 Greensburg tornado, was created by Leonardo DiCaprio? Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20111005072555/http://www.greensburgks.org/news/greensburg-season-3-to-air-on-planet-green/
- ALT8: ... that although the 2007 Greensburg tornado was the first to be rated F5/EF5 in the United States in nine years, the next F5/EF5 tornado would occur in Canada a month later? Source: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/f5torns.html and https://www.theweathernetwork.com/en/news/weather/severe/this-day-in-weather-history-june-22-2007-elie-manitoba-tornado
- ALT9: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado was the first "incredible tornado" to hit the United States? Source: https://www.iccsafe.org/building-safety-journal/bsj-dives/how-damage-determines-a-tornados-rating-from-fujita-to-enhanced-fujita/#:~:text=EF%2D4%3A%20Devastating%20damage%20(,damage%20(Over%20200%20mph).
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Manhasset
- Comment: Damage Survey authors considered experts in their field (see Timothy P. Marshall).
EF5 13:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 13
editAustin Staats
- ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats' contract was suspended after he bit another player's finger?
- ALT1: ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats received a 7 game suspension for being a sore loser? Source: https://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/san-diego-player-gets-7-game-suspension-incident-19451876.php
- Reviewed:
- Comment: ALT1 might be too disparaging. Idk, happy to receive input.
SammySpartan (talk) 23:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC).
- I don't think either hook would meet WP:DYKBLP given their negative tone and their arguably undue focus. A different angle is needed here. Maybe:
- ALT2 ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats works part-time as a firefighter?
- I understand that it's actually common for professional lacrosse players to have other jobs, but that knowledge may not be common to most readers and thus may still be considered intriguing or unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I guess as a lacrosse fan, what's notable to me about him has been his anger issues on and off the field, but I totally get the need to be neutral. ALT2 works for me. SammySpartan (talk) 17:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
2025 Inter Miami CF season
- ... that the 2025 season for Inter Miami CF includes matches in the FIFA Club World Cup? Source: USA Today
- Reviewed: List of Chivas USA managers
SounderBruce 04:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC).
- Hello @SounderBruce:, where is your QPQ?--Launchballer 11:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer: QPQ has been added. SounderBruce 05:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Trey McKenney
- ... that Trey McKenney made all 14 of his free throws in St. Mary's Preparatory's 2024 state championship victory?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ernest Prestwich
- Comment: 2nd of 2 QPQs for Prestwich review
TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:40, 15 November 2024 (UTC).
Israel Ta-Shma
- ... that the first publication of prolific author Israel Ta-Shma, a scholar of Talmud, was a 1960 Jewish songbook for the Israel Defense Forces?
- Source: Derovan, David (2007). "Ta-Shma, Israel Moses". In Berenbaum, Michael; Skolnik, Fred (eds.). Encyclopaedia Judaica. Vol. 19 (2nd ed.). Macmillan Reference USA, Keter Publishing House. p. 525. "first publication was a religious song book for IDF soldiers (1960) issued by the Chief Rabbinate of the IDF."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Lova Rajaona
- Comment: His academic accomplishments are genuine but a bit hard to explain in a hook for a general audience. Of course, I will write ALT hooks if desired.
ProfGray (talk) 18:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC).
Chrystal (musician)
- ... that a reviewer wrote that Chrystal's 2017 single "Waves" "contains the best opening line we've heard all year"? Source: https://i-d.co/article/girl-from-the-north-country-singerproducer-chrystal-is-putting-her-northern-donk-on-pop/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Eating Out 2: Sloppy Seconds
- Comment: At time of writing, her single "The Days" is at number 55 in the UK singles chart. It is not currently notable, but if it becomes such I will add it to the nomination.
Launchballer 17:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 14
editShelley Luther
- ... that four years after being imprisoned, Shelley Luther won election to the Texas House of Representatives?
- Source: e.g. imprisoned (many sources for this); election
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Light Vessel 16
- Comment: QPQ to be done within 24 hours.
BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
Mother Solomon
- ... that Mother Solomon returned to Ohio 22 years after the Indian Removal Act forced Wyandots into Kansas?
- Reviewed:
Averageuntitleduser (talk) 00:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 15
editMoses sees Rabbi Akiva (Menachot 29b)
- ... that Moses sees Rabbi Akiva (Menachot 29b) martyred, and his body consumed, in a Talmud story that is compared to the transfiguration of Jesus?
- Source: Zellentin, Holger (2023). Aras, Martina; Rizk, Charbel; Stosch, Klaus von (eds.). “Honour with Silence the Words of Your Creator” -- Moses’ Silence in bMenaḥot 29b in Light of its Jewish and Christian Context. Beiträge zur komparativen Theologie. Paderborn: Brill . "In my view, the Bavli’s typological reading of Aqiva comes as close as possible to the Christian model, without, however, overstepping the line: Aqiva is perhaps “the one,” but not a new Adam; he is a messianic figure, but not the Messiah; and he is martyred and his body consumed, but he is not yet resurrected."
- ALT1: ... that Biblical and post-Biblical characters rarely meet in Talmudic stories, as when Moses sees Rabbi Aviva teach and be martyred? Source: Jeffrey Rubenstein, Stories of the Babylonian Talmud (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2010), 182–20. "I know of no other story that bridges the typically impermeable break between the time of the bible and the time of the sages ...." In 2002, Rubenstein said, "The juxtaposition of these two characters violates the typically strict separation between the biblical and post-biblical times."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Oliver Hutchinson
- Comment: This is a fictional work (story), so DYK facts are about the story's features or interpretation. Another hook: it can be seen as a "failed theodicy" since God tells Moses to be silent in the face of Akiva's torture. But the hook idea is hard to articulate within the time we have.
ProfGray (talk) 20:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment ALT1 is probably better, but ungrammatical. Better:
- ALT2 : ... that meetings between Biblical and post-Biblical characters, as when Moses sees Rabbi Aviva teach and be martyred, are rare in Talmudic stories? Same refs. Johnbod (talk) 04:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
The Americans
- ... that the creator of The Americans, Joe Weisberg, drew inspiration for the show from his time as a CIA officer and the 2010 Russian spy scandal known as the Illegals Program?
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Helped get this to GA status and feel this would be a good DYK from the article.
Ktkvtsh (talk) 02:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC).
Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik
- ... that reading Hermann Weyl's Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik has been said to be like watching "a smiling figure on horseback" wielding "a swift bright sword"?
- ALT1: ... that in his book Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik, Hermann Weyl worried about a "crisis in quantum physics" that the discovery of antimatter would resolve? Source: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/weyl/
- Reviewed:
XOR'easter (talk) 00:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC).
Fagoppositionens Sammenslutning
- ... that members of the Trade Union Opposition Federation stormed the Copenhagen Stock Exchange?
- Source: Knudsen, Knud (2023). "Syndicalism and Strikes in Denmark, 1917–1920: The Syndicalist Challenge to Social Democratic Trade Union Leadership". In Jørgensen, Jesper; Mikkelsen, Flemming (eds.). Trade Union Activism in the Nordic Countries since 1900. Palgrave Studies in the History of Social Movements. Palgrave Macmillan. p. 78. doi:10.1007/978-3-031-08987-9_4. ISBN 978-3-031-08987-9.
Grnrchst (talk) 15:55, 15 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 16
editGNX (album)
- ... that Kendrick Lamar's album GNX was described as his "greatest work" by a critic after being surprise released?
- ALT1: ... that on the GNX track "Reincarnated", Kendrick Lamar has a conversation with God? Source: The Line of Best Fit
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Gao Qifeng
- Comment: I seem to be about two hours late but hopefully that is excusable.
NØ 13:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC).
Marzēaḥ
- ... that an inscription from 243 AD for a leader of the marzēaḥ ends with blesses for his sons, the scribe, the person in charge of the cooking, the cupbearer and other assistants?
- ALT1: ... that the relationship between the marzēaḥ and veneration of the dead is still debated among scholars, due to sporadic literary evidence?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by TNM101 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- Reviewed:
TNM101 (chat) 07:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 17
editMuhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani
- ... that Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab's claimed photo circulated online is actually Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani?
Faldi00 (talk) 19:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC).
- ALT1... that the photo circulated online claimed to be of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1792) is actually Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani?
Same refs etc. Bit spicier. Johnbod (talk) 21:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- I prefer this one. The sentence structure and lexicons are way better. Faldi00 (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Take it from a native speaker; they're not. But whatever. Johnbod (talk) 13:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- I prefer this one. The sentence structure and lexicons are way better. Faldi00 (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
De Worsten van Babel
- ... that The "Sausages"' first sausage was filled with 3 courses and an espresso? Source: https://visrecepten.nl/vijf-vragen-aan-hugo-kennis
- ALT1: ... that The "Sausages of Babel" studied musical theatre and graphic design? Source: https://bron.fontys.nl/tv-kok-hugo-kennis-fontys-hardste-leerschool-ooit/ https://oldschool.rietveldacademie.nl/project/the-cave-at-amstel-41-saturday-8-june https://www.kabk.nl/alumni/bachelor-grafisch-ontwerpen/2011-2020 (2015)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/MrBeast Lab
Bogger (talk) 00:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC).
Qian Xingcun
- ... that the Communist literary critic Qian Xingcun had a feud with Mao?
- Source: Anderson, Marston (1990). The Limits of Realism: Chinese Fiction in the Revolutionary Period. Berkeley: University of California Press. ISBN 978-0-520-06436-2. "Qian similarly censured Mao Dun's work for its exclusive focus on the dark side of life, for its retrospective tone, and for its failure to communicate a sense of the future.[60] In Qian's view, Mao Dun was obsessed with out-of-date literary forms and failed to recognize the necessity of inventing new forms to give expression to the concerns of a new age.[61]"
- ALT1: ... that the literary critic Qian Xingcun brought several Communist writers into the Shanghai film industry? Source: *Xiao, Zhiwei (1998). "Ah Ying". In Zhang, Yingjin; Xiao, Zhiwei (eds.). Encyclopedia of Chinese Film. New York, London: Routledge. p. 79. ISBN 978-0-415-15168-9.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Phoebe Plummer (3 of 4)
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 18
editHMS Unruffled
- ... that a cat, Timoshenko, joined HMS Unruffled on twenty wartime patrols in 1942–43?
- Source: Recorded in Burdened but Unruffled: The Story of a World War II Submarine and its Crew by James Gregan, and discussed by Lieutenant J M Stevens in an interview with the IWM
- Reviewed:
Heavywick (talk) 15:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: @Heavywick: You're missing a citation at the end of the fifth paragraph in the "Career" section. I also notice that you don't mention or link to ship's cat, military mascot, or military animal in the body of the article, provided at least one of those are relevant. I think Timoshenko qualifies as a ship's cat given his biography. Many ship's cats have similar origin stories. It's also unusual to have such a large section without subsection headings, not just for the accessibility of the reader, but also to group related material. Viriditas (talk) 09:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:@Viriditas: Thank you for the feedback, I have linked ship's cat, moved the citation in para five, and added subheadings to the career section. Heavywick (talk) 09:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: I just went through and fixed some typos, removed a duplicate source, and moved the other sources to a further reading holding pen you may want to change. You can see my edits here. Please check the dates of engagement in the "Career" section as they appear to differ from the dates in the "Successes" section. There may be a reason for this or it may just be a typo. Or it may be late and I'm seeing things. Either way, have a look. Aside from that, the only thing left for me to do is random spot checks of the sources. I will do that tomorrow as I'm half asleep at the moment and can barely type. Viriditas (talk) 10:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing: - n
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - ?
- Other problems: - WP:RS/SPS
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
---|
|
QPQ: None required. |
Overall: The original article was expanded just slightly under 5x from a 1766 character article lacking inline sources[35] to a 8507 character article with additional inline citations, all within the relevant time frame.[36] Technically, 5x would amount to 8830 characters, a deficiency of 323. I'm willing to let that slide (and there's a possibility that the DYK check count is wrong and the 5x expansion was met, that has happened in the past). The issue at this time is not the 5x requirement but the use of James Gregan's well researched, but self-published book Burdened but Unruffled: The Story of a World War II Submarine and its Crew (2016),[37] which was published with the help of the Mereo Books publishing service, which primarily helps independent authors design and sometimes even ghostwrite their books. I see that Wikipedia uses a lot of books by Mereo as sources, but my guess is that most of them are established authors and relevant experts in their field. I have tried to confirm that James Gregan meets this qualification but I could not. I attempted to find book reviews, but could not. To argue both sides, I will note that the introduction of Gregan's book does contain a number of potential bona fides, and that could perhaps be used to argue for its inclusion. For example, in the introduction, Gregan names experts who helped him edit and revise his material. I don't have full access to the book at the moment, just snippets from Google Books, but some of the material I reviewed made me wonder if the author added fictionalized accounts or if it was just straight facts; this is unclear to me. Because the close to 5x expansion was accomplished solely using Gregan's work instead of the other sources already listed in the further reading section, this presents a dilemma, as Wikipedia articles must be primarily based on reliable secondary sources whenever possible. Per WP:SPS, "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications." It is entirely unclear if Gregan meets this bright line. Because I am a fan of this article (and ship's cats everywhere) and would love to see it progress further, I will hold out rejecting it outright for the moment while I give the nominator the benefit of the doubt and ask for additional input on the project talk page. Just to note, Earwig did not find anything objectionable, but it's not clear if it had access to the book content. Viriditas (talk) 20:42, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:@Viriditas:
Thank you for the feedback.
For clarity, Gregan's book is entirely factual, and does not contain any fictionalisation. It draws primarily on Admiralty records, and on an interview with the boat's captain that is available online - as these are primary sources, I don't believe they can be cited directly? There simply aren't any other secondary sources on HMS Unruffled that cover it in depth approaching Gregan's work.
From looking at other articles, uboat.net (which draws on the same admiralty records) seems to be accepted as a reliable source. The page for HMS Unruffled contains an essentially identical record of HMS Unruffled's career to Gregan's work, albeit with less details around non-operational matters (ie. the cat, the crew's celebration in Colchester, etc.)
Heavywick (talk) 17:4, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Do you know if Gregan is known as an expert in his field? Are there any book reviews or independent mentions of his work elsewhere by military historians? Is it safe to assume Gregan is an independent scholar, researcher or writer, who published this book himself? Or did he receive public funding from a reputable organization? For the book to meet SPS, we need answers to those questions. In one of the snippets that I saw, there was an unusual and fanciful account of the ship’s cat eating lobster that sounded embellished. That made me wonder about the rest of the book. Part of the problem here is we don’t know who the author is and don’t have much info about the book. OCLC doesn’t even have a full entry, just an auto generated listing with no details. And if OCLC doesn’t have it, that’s a real issue. So there are questions. Anything you can do to answer them would be great. I will also a file a noticeboard request in the appropriate place to get more opinions. Viriditas (talk) 18:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:@Viriditas: From what I can see this is Gregan's only work, and doesn't seem to have received public funding, so I suppose he wouldn't qualify as an expert. I was unaware Mereo was a self-publishing platform until today. I see what you mean with the passage mentioning the lobster, as an out-of-context snippet that could definitely give that impression; it's not a frequent occurence in the book, though it does note what the crew ate on a particular day every now and then. Heavywick (talk) 18:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Got it. I wonder if we can triangulate some kind of reliability between uboat.net, the Admiralty records, and Gregan's book. In general, RS doesn't work that way, but I think given the solidity of the topic, there might a bit of leeway this way or that, I don't know. For example, you note above that Gregan's book mirrors other sources, primary or otherwise. If you had to make a rough guess, how much of the Gregan book that you currently use is found in some other source? Just take a guess. Would it be 80%, for example? Your answer will give me something to go on when I bring this to the RS board. Viriditas (talk) 19:07, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: Yes, 80% or thereabouts sounds accurate for the amount of content that also appears on uboat.net. Ultimately they're both drawing on the same set of Admiralty records. Throughout the career section it's probably 90% or more, with the exceptions being odd bits of detail, and anything about Timoshenko, most of which I believe comes from the interview with Stevens, and there's a few bits that cite newspaper interviews with another crew member. Heavywick (talk) 11:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm trying to think outside the box on this. Is there any way you can replace some of the material with reliable secondary sources, and some of the material with links to the primary sources such as the Admiralty records directly? That would go a long way towards solving most of the problem. If you can’t do that, can you note the relationship between Gregan and the experts he said he talked to and interviewed in the introduction? I realize that is reaching, as notability isn’t inherited and it’s still a SPS lacking expertise, but in my mind it qualifies as a kind of oral history if it is used carefully, in other words, a primary source. I think the key here is find more reliable secondary sources. It’s surprising there aren’t more out there. So far, I’ve asked for additional input and advice from both the DYK and military history project. I will pursue the RS noticeboard as well. Viriditas (talk) 00:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- I have tracked down some other references (some primary, some secondary) that verify the history of Unruffled and Timmo the cat, and have added these to the page. Hope this helps. Chaiten1 (talk) 00:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. I will take a look at the further reading section tonight to see if that can be further merged. Viriditas (talk) 01:22, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
@Heavywick: I think you can start replacing Gregan citations. I see that reference 1 (Gregan, 2016. Chapter One: Barrow-in-Furness) can be mostly replaced with Colledge 1969.[38] You'll have to cite the order date from somewhere else, but you can cite "for construction by Vickers Armstrong in Barrow-in-Furness" and "The boat was launched on 19 December 1941" and "was scrapped at Troon in January 1946" to Colledge 1969, p. 339. The less you use Gregan here, the better case you have. Viriditas (talk) 01:45, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: I went ahead and added it for you.[39] Please try to do the same thing for the rest of the further reading section. There are also more potential sources listed here. Viriditas (talk) 02:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: I've gone through and replaced all the Gregan citations. There were one or two small details that had to be trimmed, but not much. Uboat.net has replaced a lot of the citations, I believe this is an acceptable source as I had a look at some other submarine articles and it features on them, including articles with Good Article status (for example HMS Splendid (P228)). Heavywick (talk) 18:14, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Don't forgot to change out the source in the hook, or if necessary, to change or add new hooks and sources. You still have Gregan listed as the citation for ALT0. Viriditas (talk) 21:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Have you tried merging the sources in further reading into this article? It would be great if you do so. Given the recent removals, the 5x expansion may be called into question. I will also do a manual count of the expansion just in case, as that can often be more accurate and give you some extra room. But adding more material would be helpful. Viriditas (talk) 21:43, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Update: no real difference with the manual count, so the relative count totals from the original review up above still hold. Viriditas (talk) 21:58, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Update: I can find nothing about this topic in Hutchinson 2001 (Jane's Submarines: War Beneath the Waves from 1776 to the Present Day). Should it be removed? Also, why is there nothing there? Viriditas (talk) 22:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- I removed it. Viriditas (talk) 22:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Update: It looks like Walters 2004 (The History of the British 'U' Class Submarine) has all of the information. Please try to get a copy of it or try to access it from Google Books. I wonder if this is the primary source for all the other sources (aside from Gregan). The book was originally published by Pen and Sword Books. They have EPUB versions for purchase[40] if you can't access the info on Google Books or find it at your library. This book would not only place you over the 5x expansion limit, but would likely fill in all the gaps. First thing, take a look at the Google Books version and see how much you can add. Viriditas (talk) 22:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Just taking a guess, but I wonder if this article was originally created based on Walters 2004. Viriditas (talk) 22:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
@Heavywick: I made a book request for you here. Viriditas (talk) 23:20, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- A kind user forwarded me the relevant book pages. I would like to give them to you as well but you don't have email enabled. There are alternative ways to share, such as a file hosting service. Let me know what you want to do. Viriditas (talk) 01:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Entitativity
- ... that entitativity is why some groups feel more “groupy” than others?
- Source: Research shows that people consistently distinguish between different types of groups based on perceived entitativity. Intimacy groups, such as family and friends, are generally considered the most entitative. Task groups, like committees, come next, followed by social categories (e.g., gender, race). Finally, loose associations—such as people who like classical music or those waiting in line at the bank—are seen as the least entitative.
- Reviewed:
Andrea Low (talk) 08:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC).
- The article is new enough (5x expansion starting 18 November) and long enough. The article is also well sourced. However, the word "groupy" doesn't appear in the quoted source. Nor does it appear in the Wikipedia article you wrote. We really need sourcing for the "groupy" part or an alternative hook that is supported by a reliable source and used in the article. Cbl62 (talk) 03:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Andrea Low: Please address the above.--Launchballer 00:14, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Cbl62: Hi! Thanks for clarifying. I've added a line with a citation in the wikipedia article in the first paragraph of the lead section: "Entitativity refers to the extent to which a group is perceived as a cohesive, unified entity. In other words, it describes how "groupy" a collection of individuals is." Hope this works! Andrea Low (talk) 14:20, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer: Thanks for the bump! Andrea Low (talk) 14:20, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hello, I am the GA reviewer for this article and saw this nomination on the talk page while reviewing. The statement that entitativity is why some groups feel more "groupy" than others invokes causation, but it is not the case that the concept of entitativity causes this phenomena. Rather, entitativity is the word we use to refer to this idea. Therefore, a more accurate statement would be something like: ALT1: "... Entitativity refers to how 'groupy' a group is." It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:50, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed with It is a wonderful world's suggested edit! Andrea Low (talk) 15:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 19
editSelf-Portrait (Ellen Thesleff)
- ... that art historians believe Self-Portrait may have been drawn by Ellen Thesleff in a trance-like state?
- Crabbe, Gilee (2019). "Hidden Influences". FNG Research. 4. Finnish National Gallery. Retrieved 19 November 2024.
- Quote, p. 3: "Thesleff was known to have practised automatic drawing...Thesleff continued working on the piece however, and when it was shown again – she dated it twice – the artist had worked on it further in sepia ink, giving it a deeper chiaroscuro, a technique resembling the sepiatone spirit photographs that were popular among esoteric circles at the time. 'The way the head emerges from the dark background makes it seem like an immaterial spirit in the process of materialisation,' said Lahelma. 'This processual method resembles the surrealists' quest to liberate the creative imagination by using experimental methods based on psychic automatism and trance states. Before the surrealists turned this into a conscious artistic method, this kind of technique was used in mediumistic art.' In Thesleff's piece, Lahelma continued, 'the introspective attitude is manifest both in technique and in the facial expression and the artist appears to be in some kind of creative trance. And this is a significant point, here it is not only the content or the subject matter that is connected to esoteric ideas but also the technique – not only what has been represented but how it has been represented. Perhaps here we can think of art as an esoteric practice.'"
- Lahelma, Marja (2014). Ideal and Disintegration: Dynamics of the Self and Art at the Fin-de-Siècle. (PhD thesis). University of Helsinki. pp. 148-179. ISBN 9789521097287. OCLC 897998723.
Viriditas (talk) 05:30, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
Jews in the Polish Army
- ... that about 200,000 Polish Jews served in the Polish Army and related formations during World War II? Source: https://www.avotaynu.com/books/PolishOfficers.htm
- ALT1: ... that before World War II, Jews in the Polish Army formed about a fifth of the Polish military medical services? Source: https://bip.ipn.gov.pl/download/4/11804/Zalaczniknr2doSIWZMakieta.pdf (p. 104 of the pdf IIRC)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Qizil Tugh
- Comment: While one could argue that some details from the body might be more interesting, they might also make the hook less neutral. But see ALT1 if you want something weirder.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC).
German atrocities committed against prisoners of war during World War II
- ... that during WW2 Germans committed numerous atrocities against prisoners of war? Source: pretty much any source, but see for example: Hébert, Valerie Geneviève (2021-02-12). Hitler's Generals on Trial: The Last War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg. University Press of Kansas. ISBN 978-0-7006-3267-1. 150–153
- ALT1: ... that after World War II, during the Nuremberg High Command Trial, almost all of the German high commanders tried were found guilty of crimes against POWs? Source: a bit less generic; same source as above
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Christmas Invasion
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC).
- This is not a review, and given the topic this is far outside my comfort zone, I will the full review to another editor. However, the hook is kind of dull or at least obvious. Nazis doing atrocities to prisoners of war is kind of a "Well, duh" fact given their reputation. A completely different angle is probably needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
2019 NFC Divisional Playoff game (Seattle–Green Bay)
- ... that the Seattle Seahawks' loss to the Green Bay Packers in their 2019 Divisional Playoff game was their ninth straight to the Packers at Lambeau Field?
- Reviewed: Sehome, Bellingham, Washington
« Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
Sun Haven (video game)
- ... that players can marry the leader in Sun Haven?
- ALT1:
... that players have unlimited energy in Sun Haven, unlike other farm sims?Source: https://www.ign.com/wikis/sun-haven/Tips_and_Tricks_for_Beginners "One of our favorite features in Sun Haven (or lack thereof) is a stamina system. You don't need to worry about passing out from exerting too much energy like you do in other farming games" - Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Crimson Diamond
- Comment: Coincidentally, the QPQ is also a video game. I've been waiting for this game on the Switch (even though I don't own one) and its finally due to release by end of month! It was all because of this video.
- ALT1:
JuniperChill (talk) 00:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC).
- Note: this may be suitable to run on 30 November, the day after the game is on the Switch as its scheduled to release on 29 Nov at 0700 PST (1500 UTC) according to this Reddit post, which was posted by one of the developers (see the username). I totally forgot about the special hook occasion and only just realised. If not, the 29th will do. JuniperChill (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Also ALT0a: that players can marry Lucia, the leader of Sun Haven?
- Pretty well-written and interesting article. Both the length and citation quality are alright, however I am of the view that the proposed hooks might potentially be in violation of the rule that "If the subject of the hook is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must be focused on a real-world fact." (WP:DYKFICTION). Would be great if you could propose some other alternatives. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Kingoflettuce: Well, you can't marry the leaders of Stardew Valley, Coral Island and My Time at Portia/Sandrock so I was thinking SH is unique in this way. Plus, marrying is definitely a real-world fact so I only think ALT1 fails DYKFICTION (because you don't have unlimited stamina IRL) and have self-crossed it out, leaving ALT0/0a it is. JuniperChill (talk) 12:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I would disagree with saying that ALT0 definitely meets WP:DYKFICTION because it's about marriage and the concept of marriage is a real-life fact. Plenty of things that happen in real life, such as births, deaths, marriages, going to school, etc. happen in works of fiction. The real issue here based on WP:DYKFICTION is if ALT0 is to be interpreted as a game mechanic or as a plot point: if it's the former, it might meet the guideline, but if it's the latter, it may not. Game mechanics are among those edge cases where it's not clear if DYKFICTION is met or not. At the very least, a reword may be needed. If not, maybe a different angle is needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'll hope for the best for this one then. I think i've learnt that DYK hooks shouldn't talk about the game and talk about the real word associated with it. JuniperChill (talk) 08:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I would disagree with saying that ALT0 definitely meets WP:DYKFICTION because it's about marriage and the concept of marriage is a real-life fact. Plenty of things that happen in real life, such as births, deaths, marriages, going to school, etc. happen in works of fiction. The real issue here based on WP:DYKFICTION is if ALT0 is to be interpreted as a game mechanic or as a plot point: if it's the former, it might meet the guideline, but if it's the latter, it may not. Game mechanics are among those edge cases where it's not clear if DYKFICTION is met or not. At the very least, a reword may be needed. If not, maybe a different angle is needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Sources: https://www.thegamer.com/best-farming-games-ranked/ "This indie gem has flown under the radar for a surprisingly long time, not gaining much attention until it had its official 1.0 release in early 2023" and https://www.thegamer.com/sun-haven-worth-it/ "Few games blend farming RPG mechanics, casual slice-of-life interactions, and high fantasy styles like Sun Haven does" for ALT2 and 3 respectively
Edoardo Tiretta
- ... that Casanova's friend Edoardo Tiretta built a bazaar in India?
- Source: Around 1783, Tiretta was granted permission to construct a ‘puckabazaar’, which spread over nine bighas and eight cottahs of ground, ‘withconvenient shops, surrounded with a colonnade veranda’. In 1788, themarketplace was valued at Sicca Rupees 1,96,000 and given away as first prize ina lottery. Its ownership changed over time but in the popular imagination, thebazaar continues to be referred to as Tiretta’s, or some variant thereof.” - https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/bowing-out/articleshow/68747124.cms
- ALT1: ... that Casanova's friend Edoardo Tiretta was known to make love six times a night?
- Source: I went with my friend, and as soon as the harebrain saw us she fell on Tiretta’s neck, calling him dear Count “Six-times”—a name which stuck to him all the time he was at Paris.“What has gained my friend so fine a title, madam?”“His erotic achievements. He is lord of an honour of which little is known in France, and I am desirous of being the lady.” - https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/2981/pg2981-images.html
- Reviewed:
User:WoodElf 06:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC).
.zip (top-level domain)
- ... that despite security concerns about the top-level domain .zip, researchers found it contained slightly less malicious usage than the general internet?
- Source: Deacon, Alex (July 17, 2023). "The .zip TLD: Ripe for abuse, but so far so good". DNS Research Federation.
- Reviewed:
Bobby Cohn (talk) 01:53, 19 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review, but the hook rather buries the lede somewhat. Assuming they check out, I suggest ALT1: ... that the release of the .zip top-level domain was condemned by cyber security experts?--Launchballer 02:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- This was a case where I was steeped in the source material and after reading nothing but negativity about the subject, it was the fact that made me go "huh, actually less you say?" But I agree, this is an appropriate summary of the article. I may have also been trying to avoid the pitfall of being too negative, something that came up in my last DYKN. Nonetheless, though I'm not familiar with the process, I endorse the ALT1 in addition to my own phrasing. Bobby Cohn (talk) 02:09, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 20
editMoturoa Island (Bay of Islands)
- ... that in the 1980s when Moturoa Island lost all its endangered kiwi to pest, experts reintroduced seven birds – today there could be as many as 400 kiwis on the island?
- Source: Kiwi were reintroduced to the island in 1984–85, with seven (including three breeding pairs) transported from Waitangi.[1][2] The reintroduction was very successful – Kiwi numbers today have soared. A local landowner said there was 'great debate' over how many Kiwi live on the island, but 'estimates range from 100–300'.[1]
- Reviewed:
Petersmeter (talk) 07:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
- starting review--Kevmin § 00:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- First thing I'm seeing is a number of uncited statements in the article. Each unique fact should be cited.--Kevmin § 00:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Petersmeter Additionally the hook fact needs to be present in the article, right now the article states 100-300 Kiwi (what species?), and does not cover the extirpation of the local population at all.--Kevmin § 00:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ a b "A Northland island has a very unusual problem... too many kiwi". The New Zealand Herald. Retrieved 20 November 2024.
- ^ Ralph, C John. "Annotated Checklist of the Birds of Moturoa Island, Bay of Islands". Sonic.net. Retrieved 20 November 2024.
Articles created/expanded on November 21
editRenildo José dos Santos
- ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was tragically murdered in 1993 after publicly declaring his bisexuality, and his murderers only started serving their sentences in 2015?
- Source: "Acusado de mandar matar vereador de Coqueiro seco se entrega à polícia". Alagoas (in Brazilian Portuguese). 2015-11-12. Retrieved 2024-11-27.
- ALT1: ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was murdered in 1993 after coming out as bisexual, and his legacy is honored with a human rights award in his name? Source: "Prêmio de Direitos Humanos Renildo José dos Santos acontece nesta terça em Maceió". Tribuna Hoje. Retrieved 2024-11-20.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Despite its creation becoming almost seven days before today, it was expanded today.
--MikutoH talk! 23:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: The first hook and some statements in the article may not meet WP:NPOV. TheBritinator (talk) 01:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TheBritinator: it may not be. But is it? You didn't state your perspective in a concrete way. --MikutoH talk! 17:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- I removed the apparent non-neutral POV~. Since it wasn't specified which part, now I think it's neutral. --MikutoH talk! 20:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- The hooks remain non-neutral and should be reworded. Full review would be left to TheBritinator or another editor:
- ALT2 ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was murdered in 1993 after publicly coming out as bisexual? ("Tragically" is commentary that should be avoided per WP:WTW, the second seems to be commentary that might also not meet NPOV).
- Tragic but sadly not uncommon, so I'm not sure if it's "unusual" enough to meet WP:DYKINT, so maybe other editor can chime in? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: I would say ALT2 is good. TheBritinator (talk) 16:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- The hooks remain non-neutral and should be reworded. Full review would be left to TheBritinator or another editor:
Á'a:líya Warbus
- ... that rapper Apt Exact, who was described as "not gangster", was elected to the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia in 2024?
- Source: "Theresa Warbus, who raps as Apt Exact, of the duo Rapsure Risin’, remembers the reception the First Ladies received originally: "‘Who are these girls? They’re not gangster.’""Warner, Andrea (August 17, 2015). "Inside Canada's Indigenous Hip-Hop Scene With The First Ladies Crew". Pitchfork. Retrieved November 21, 2024.
"Conservative candidate Á’a:líya Warbus has won the Chilliwack-Cultus Lake riding in the 2024 provincial election." Feinberg, Jennifer (October 19, 2024). "Conservative Á'a:líya Warbus wins Chilliwack-Cultus Lake riding". The Chilliwack Progress. Retrieved October 24, 2024.
- Reviewed: Goro Takahashi
- Comment:
Gonna work on the QPQ soon,(Edit: Done!) just wanted to put the finishing touches on the article as soon as I could. For the reviewer, I wanted to add this note, since it can be confusing as Warbus uses several names. Á'a:líya Warbus was born Theresa Point, she was the daughter of former Lieutenant Governor Stephen Point. Point would later marry Kalvin Warbus, and go by Theresa Warbus-Point (or the other way around in some instances), before switching to solely having her surname be Warbus. Within the last two years, she had her name changed to Á'a:líya. Thus, the sources can be here and there with her given name, but it is all her. Older sources call her Theresa Point, sources in the late 2010s-2020s call her Theresa Warbus-Point, Theresa Point-Warbus, or Theresa Warbus, and the most recent ones call her Á'a:líya Warbus. It all can be quite confusing.
Ornithoptera (talk) 07:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
Doug Hamlin
- ... that the National Rifle Association credited future CEO Doug Hamlin with saving the company $30 million as director of publications?
- Source: Parker, John (July 30, 2024). "NRA CEO & EVP Doug Hamlin Says 'Return On The Investment The Members Have Made In The NRA Is Undeniable'". NRA Shooting Sports USA. Retrieved November 20, 2024.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nayib Bukele
- Comment: there's a much more interesting hook here, but DYKBLP and all that.
charlotte 👸♥ 23:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC).
- If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, then for me it's interesting enough that they went after him for something that happened that long ago. I therefore propose ALT1 ... that after Doug Hamlin was appointed CEO of the NRA in May 2024, anonymous employees called for his suspension over something that happened in 1979? which I believe sidesteps the negative bit.--Launchballer 16:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
George K. Teulon
- ... that according to George K. Teulon, all of the presidents and vice-presidents of the Republic of Texas, "and four-fifths" of its government officials were freemasons?
- Source: "FAQ's—Frequently Asked Questions". Star of the Republic Museum. Archived from the original on September 8, 2018.
- ALT1: ... that according to George K. Teulon, the Lone Star symbol of Texas was chosen because of its masonic symbolism, with the "five-pointed star" alluding "to the five points of fellowship"? Source: "Texas Masonic Pride: Early Beginnings". Grand Lodge of Texas. Archived from the original on May 8, 2009."Masonic Heroes of Texas". Grand Lodge of Texas. Archived from the original on June 3, 2003.
- Reviewed:
- Comment:
Aneirinn (talk) 05:26, 25 November 2024 (UTC).
Itim
- ... that the 1976 Philippine film Itim was described as "one of the most remarkable debuts in cinema history"?
- Source: MoMA
NØ 12:38, 23 November 2024 (UTC).
- Article is of a substantial length and was made a GA on November 21. It was nominated in the proper time frame, and is within policy. No copyright violations detected. The hook length is fine, and the fact is interesting and verified to the cited source. The only issue is that we need to attribute the quote in the hook to the Museum of Modern Art. Once that is fixed I can approve the hook. Best.4meter4 (talk) 01:00, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Does it need to be attributed within the hook? That would adversely affect catchiness and does not seem to be a requirement looking at recent DYK hooks like this and this.--NØ 11:27, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I've had several of my hook proposals held up in the past when I've done quotes; particularly when they make exceptional claims like the one in this hook. Personally I think attributing the quote to MOMA makes it more hooky not less. But that's just me.4meter4 (talk) 22:36, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hello and thank you for that nomination, MaranoFan and thanks for notifying me and for your concern, 4meter4. Rather busy at the moment, sorry. How would you wish to have it phrased if it's attributed? "by XX" seems impossible, as the name of the person is not known only the insitution (by the MoMa does not sound right) ;"in a presentation for a screening at the MoMa"? Not too long?21:07, -Mushy Yank.3 December 2024 (UTC)
Alt1... that the 1976 Philippine film Itim was described as "one of the most remarkable debuts in cinema history" at a 2022 retrospective at the Museum of Modern Art?
- @Mushy Yank Here is my suggested alt. I'll have to get another reviewer to promote it since I wrote it. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:55, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @4meter4 I don't think there was any exhibition stricto sensu, though; it was a retrospective (https://www.moma.org/calendar/film/5516). Thanks. -Mushy Yank. 22:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Mushy Yank I modified it to retrospective.4meter4 (talk) 22:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @4meter4 I don't think there was any exhibition stricto sensu, though; it was a retrospective (https://www.moma.org/calendar/film/5516). Thanks. -Mushy Yank. 22:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Mushy Yank Here is my suggested alt. I'll have to get another reviewer to promote it since I wrote it. Best.4meter4 (talk) 21:55, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Need a hook review of Alt 1.4meter4 (talk) 21:55, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Eurovision Song Contest 1984
- ... that booing heard after the UK's entry at the Eurovision Song Contest 1984 was reportedly either a response to past football hooliganism, claims of lip syncing, or alleged plagiarism of the Supremes?
- Source: Luxembourg 1984 Herrey's gladde winnaars festival (in Dutch) "De enige juiste beslissing van al die jury's was de afstraffing van Engeland dat met puur pikwerk van The Supremes hoog wilde eindigen. [...] Maar toen zij gezongen hadden klonk er in de zaal en luid boe-geroep."
Sims2aholic8 (talk) 11:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 22
editNoel Hilliam
- ... that shipwreck hunter Noel Hilliam claimed to find a sunken U-Boat off the coast of New Zealand?
- Source: In 2008 The Underwater Heritage Group (of which Noel Hilliam was vice-president) announced that they had discovered a German U-boat off the Kaipara Coast. Hilliam claimed the submarine had been 'observed seven times' and three divers had been to it – however, no photographs exist and it has not since been seen.[1][2]
- Reviewed:
Petersmeter (talk) 07:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
References
- ^ "U-196 found off New Zealand ?". Uboat.net.
- ^ "German U-boat found in Northland waters, group claims". RNZ. 7 November 2008.
Sugya
- ... that the composition of a sugya, or passage in the Babylonian Talmud, has multiple layers, with the latest edited with an anonymous voice?
- Source: "Separating the Tannaitic, Amoraic, and Stammaitic layers reveals that the rabbis employ increasingly abstract formulations and concepts in their legal science." Stammaitic = anonymous (same source). See: Rubenstein at https://www.ancientjewreview.com/read/2016/2/9/talmudicstories
- ALT1: ... that a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, may be read as folklore, philosophy, proto-feminist, or legal virtuosity? Source: Folklore -- Stein, Dina (2019). "Linguistic Liaisons: Wives and Vows in the Babylonian Talmud (BT Nedarim 66a-b)". Nashim: A Journal of Jewish Women's Studies & Gender Issues (35). Philosophy: Lévinas, Emmanuel; Aronowicz, Annette; Lévinas, Emmanuel (1990). Nine Talmudic readings. Bloomington: Indiana Univ. Press. ISBN 978-0-253-20876-7. Proto-feminist: Hauptman, Judith (1998). Rereading the rabbis: a woman's voice. Boulder, Colo.: Westview Press. ISBN 978-0-8133-3400-4. Conceptual "virtuosity: -- Moscovitz, Leib (2003). ""Designation is Significant": An Analysis of the Conceptual Sugya in bSan 47b–48b". AJS Review. 27 (2): 227–252. Let me know if quotes from sources would be helpful.
- ALT2: ... that anonymous editors may create a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, by rewording quotations by earlier rabbis? Source: Moscovitz, Leib. "'The Holy Blessed One Be He... Does Not Permit the Righteous to Stumble': Reflections on the Development of a Remarkable BT Theologoumenon." In Rubenstein, Jeffrey L., ed. Creation and Composition: the Contribution of the Bavli Redactors (Stammaim) to the Aggada. Mohr Sieback, 2005, p126 "Second, the anonymous BT redactors contributed to the Talmud by reformulating amoraic dicta, not just by adding to their statements." Friedman, Shamma (2005). "A Good Story Deserves Retelling – The Unfolding Of The Akiva Legend" in same book: see p.72 "anonymous voice in the sugyot... original and creative rather than simply preserving or transmitting"
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tony Pajaczkowski
- Comment: Open to suggestions with the hook, trying to avoid insider jargon. Also, please help with my faulty template use in the QPQ. Btw, "proto-feminist" isn't quite parallel structure.
ProfGray (talk) 04:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC).
ILEA Educational Television Service
- ... that a cable TV channel in the UK was still broadcasting primarily in black and white as late as 1979?
- Source: "Both the ULAVC and ILEA had converted into colour production by 1980, however, the now old GPO VHF cable network was only just capable of transmitting high quality colour (it was originally designed for analogue black and white in 1967)."
- Reviewed:
Nylix4488 (talk) 01:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC).
- I am not seeing the information about it being in black and white explicitly mentioned in the article or the provided quote. The article even mentions a test color broadcast, but not what happened after. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Nylix4488: Please respond to the above concerns. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Snow Globe Game
- ... that in a snowy NFL playoff game, the Green Bay Packers fell behind 14–0 after two early fumbles, before scoring six straight touchdowns to win 42–20 and advance to the NFC Championship Game?
- Reviewed: Ian Fyfe (Daily Mirror journalist)
« Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a full review, more of a comment, but per the old supplementary guidelines "Don't assume everyone worldwide knows what country or sport you're talking about." and perhaps more relevantly WP:DYKINT, a rephrasing or different angle may be in order. Most of the world might not understand the hook as currently written as it relies somewhat on specialist American football terminology. This is not to say the hook angle is itself unusable, just that it may need to be reworded for the benefit of international readers and/or non-sports fans. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- I will await a full review. Thanks. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Gonzo fan2007: The article was new enough at the time of the nomination (moved to mainspace) and meets length requirements. I cannot use Earwig at the moment so the copyvio check will be to follow. A QPQ has been done. Most of the article is properly sourced. However, as mentioned above, the hook as currently written is rather specialist and thus may not be easily understood or appreciated by non-specialist readers. It's rather long, very detailed, and complicated, in addition to it confusing non-American readers. Due to these concerns, ALT0 has been struck. A simplified version of its hook fact, or perhaps a different angle, will be needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- I would appreciate another reviewer taking this nom. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- I can respect that, and per your message I won't be participating in your nominations moving forward. However, I still think that the hook hard to read, and the interesting aspect is lost among all the details. Maybe if it is simplified to something like:
- ALT1 ... that in a snowy NFL playoff game, the Green Bay Packers went from losing 14-0 to winning 42-20? (thanks to Epicgenius for suggesting the wording).
- Of course, another editor can take a look. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- For future reviewers, I'm open to rewording, but I don't agree that "fumble" or "touchdown" are specialist terminology, similar to how "tackle" and "goal" are fairly well understood words in the English language, regardless of ones understanding of football/soccer. American football is an international sport with over 400 million followers across the world. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I can respect that, and per your message I won't be participating in your nominations moving forward. However, I still think that the hook hard to read, and the interesting aspect is lost among all the details. Maybe if it is simplified to something like:
Siege of Ak-Mechet
- ... that during the siege of Ak-Mechet, bored soldiers began stealing watermelons from gardens outside the enemy fortress?
- Source: * Abaza, Konstantin Konstantinovich (1902). Завоевание Туркестана [Conquest of Turkestan p=59] (in Russian). Saint Petersburg: Publishing House of Mikhail Stasyulevich.
- ALT1: ... that during the siege of Ak-Mechet, poor placement of Russian artillery batteries caused them to shoot into each other? Source: * Terentyev, Mikhail Afrikanovich (1906). Историю завоевания Средней Азии [The history of the conquest of Central Asia] (in Russian). Vol. 1. Saint Petersburg. p. 123.
{{cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link) - ALT2: ... that after the siege of Ak-Mechet, a commander raised his handkerchief over the conquered fortress because he didn't have a Russian flag? Source: * Terentyev, Mikhail Afrikanovich (1906). Историю завоевания Средней Азии [The history of the conquest of Central Asia] (in Russian). Vol. 1. Saint Petersburg. p. 126.
{{cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link) - Reviewed:
CitrusHemlock 15:10, 22 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 23
editCharles Herman Allen
- ... that Charles Herman Allen, university president and American Civil War captain, was advised by doctors as a kid to pursue manual labor instead of academics due to health concerns?
- Reviewed:
SammySpartan (talk) 23:20, 2 December 2024 (UTC).
An American Overture
- ... that when Benjamin Britten's An American Overture was rediscovered, he wanted the score destroyed, but felt it was "a little bit too much to ask"?
- Source: Letters from a Life: The Selected Letters and Diaries of Benjamin Britten, 1913–1976 (Vol. 2), p. 985
- ALT1: ... that when Benjamin Britten's An American Overture was rediscovered, he claimed not to remember composing the work? Source: Ibid.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Kammerkonzert (Hartmann)
- Comment: The article is rich with hook ideas, so if more are needed, please ask!
CurryTime7-24 (talk) 22:48, 23 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 24
editStraight-tusked elephant
- ... that the straight-tusked elephant was one of the largest land mammals ever?
- ALT1: ... that remains of a straight-tusked elephant were found with one of the oldest known wooden spears, created by Neanderthals? Source: https://link.springer.com/10.1007/s10816-023-09635-4
- Reviewed: I have less than 5 noms, so not required
Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review, but I find ALT0 to be the more interesting of the two, though I'd truncate it at "ever" and that statement would require an end-of-sentence citation in any event.--Launchballer 00:18, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Bitcoin buried in Newport landfill
- ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin in a landfill site in 2013, and is now suing the council for £495 million?
- ALT1: ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin in a landfill site in 2013, and is still trying to recover his missing fortune worth £495m? Source: https://www.thetimes.com/article/it-worker-offers-council-50m-to-let-him-search-tip-for-bitcoin-hard-drive-vw3fskg8v
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr0dyy152jo - Reviewed:
- ALT1: ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin in a landfill site in 2013, and is still trying to recover his missing fortune worth £495m? Source: https://www.thetimes.com/article/it-worker-offers-council-50m-to-let-him-search-tip-for-bitcoin-hard-drive-vw3fskg8v
CNC (talk) 17:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 25
editNicolaas van Wijk
- ... that after helping provide humanitarian aid during World War I, Nicolaas van Wijk called the Partitions of Poland "an offense against God"?
- Source: van den Baar, p. 32
- ALT1: ... that despite being a critic of communism, Nicolaas van Wijk was suspected of having communist sympathies by Dutch police because he assisted and housed poor Eastern Europeans? Source: Hinrichs, Jan Paul [in Dutch] (2006). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): Slavist, linguist, philanthropist". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 31. Brill: 3–341. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40997485. Retrieved 13 October 2024. pp. 222–223
- ALT2: ... that after meeting Leo Tolstoy's wife, Nicolaas van Wijk's only thought was: "Unhappy land, where the greatest men they have are understood and valued thus"? Source: Hinrichs, Jan Paul [in Dutch] (2006). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): Slavist, linguist, philanthropist". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 31. Brill: 3–341. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40997485. Retrieved 13 October 2024. p. 79
- ALT3: ... that when Nicolaas van Wijk died unexpectedly, the Jewish diarist Etty Hillesum described it as worse than World War II? Source: Hinrichs, Jan Paul [in Dutch] (2006). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): Slavist, linguist, philanthropist". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 31. Brill: 3–341. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40997485. Retrieved 13 October 2024. p. 266
- ALT4: ... that although born to a family of Dutch Reformed preachers, Nicolaas van Wijk supported a Jesuit priest for a professorship, was a doctoral advisor to a Jewish student, and had an Orthodox funeral? Source: Hinrichs, Jan Paul [in Dutch] (2006). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): Slavist, linguist, philanthropist". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 31. Brill: 3–341. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40997485. Retrieved 13 October 2024.
- For preacher family, see p. 11
- For support for the Jesuit, see p. 137
- For doctoral advisor to Jews, see pp. 284–285
- For Orthodox funeral, see * Barentsen, A. A.; Groen, B. M.; Sprenger, R., eds. (1988). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): A Collection of Essays on His Life and Work". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 12. Brill: 79–88. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40996994. Retrieved 12 October 2024. p. 82
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sack of Delhi (1757)
ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
Frederick Warren Freer
- ... that Frederick Warren Freer (pictured) was referred to as "the painter of beautiful women’s faces"?
- Source: [41]
- ALT1: ... that Frederick Warren Freer (pictured) switched from studying medicine to art after going partially deaf? Source: [42]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tim Hughes (soldier)
Kimikel (talk) 17:31, 25 November 2024 (UTC).
- The article was moved to mainspace on time and a full QPQ has been performed. No close paraphrasing was found (the yellow result on Earwig is a false positive due to repeated mentions of institutions), and both hooks are cited inline and verified. Either hook can be used. The image is public domain so acceptable, but it is probably a bad fit for the Main Page owing to it not being that good quality (the eyes and facial features are not that good at that resolution). There's only one minor issue holding this back: ALT1 is supported by the source, but the current wording of the article does not suggest he studied medicine first before switching, but rather he studied art in lieu of medicine. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Thank you for the review, as long as ALT0's okay I'm fine with striking out ALT1. Kimikel (talk) 16:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, a reword to the article would suffice in fixing ALT1's issue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 26
editFamily Stress Model
- ... that the Family Stress Model helps explain how economic hardship impacts children and adolescents through family-level processes like interpersonal conflict between caregivers and disrupted parenting?
- Source: "We consider the Family Stress Model (FSM) as a useful framework for understanding the family stress process and its potential impact on children’s lives. As illustrated in Figure 1, the FSM outlines a theoretical process by which economic hardships and pressures (Boxes 1 and 2) exacerbate child and adolescent maladjustment (Box 5) primarily through parents’ psychological distress (Box 3), interparental relationship problems (Box 4a), and disrupted parenting (Box 4b). Box 6 involves additional risk factors that may intensify and protective factors that may dampen the family stress process. Since proposed by Conger and his colleagues there have been at least three published reports that review systematically the extent of empirical support for the FSM." (Masarik & Conger, 2017; Stress and Child Development: A Review of the Family Stress Model, p. 85).
- Reviewed:
MezLazYaz (talk) 23:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC).
Alessandra Rojo de la Vega
- ... that Alessandra Rojo de la Vega became the mayor of the Cuauhtémoc, Mexico City, after a gunshot attack, several vote recounts and accusations of gender violence?
- Reviewed:
Alan Islas (talk) 15:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC).
Yvonne Francis-Gibson
- ... that before she was women's minister of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Yvonne Francis-Gibson led a Women's Desk that was "unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues"? Source: Francis-Gibson served as Minister of State in the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Youth & Women’s Affairs + the head of the Women's Desk was Yvonne Francis-Gibson ... the Women's Desk appeared to be subject to the whims and fancies of the government, and was unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues.
- ALT1: ... that before improving women's rights in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines as a legislator, Yvonne Francis-Gibson led a Women's Desk that was "unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues"? Source: she worked to change laws that discriminated against women in our society. Because of her efforts, female teachers in SVG now have the right to maternity leave, and married women may now file income tax returns separate from their husbands as persons in their own right, among other benefits. + ALT0's second ref
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Film Essay on the Euphrates Dam (two articles)
ミラP@Miraclepine 00:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC).
Tjeerd van Andel
- ... that after Tjeerd van Andel first saw life on the deep sea floor he described it as a 'little paradise in the ... sea floor desert'?
- Source: Naomi Oreskes, quoting from Van Andel's diary in: Oreskes, Naomi (2021). "7. Painting Projects White: The Discovery of Deep-Sea Hydrothermal Vents". In, Science on a Mission: How Military Funding Shaped What We Do and Don’t Know about the Ocean. University of Chicago Press. p. 328.' What they found has been described as “one of the most exciting devel-opments since the beginning of the study of oceanography.”... Van Andel kept a personal diary, and just before turning in on the evening of February 17, 1977, he wrote: "In the middle of this ... barren vastness ... a small oasis ... What produced this little paradise in the ... sea floor desert?" https://doi.org/10.7208/9780226732411-008
Chaiten1 (talk) 22:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC).
Nicolas-Joseph Platel
- ... that Nicolas-Joseph Platel's playing inspired his future student Alexandre Batta to switch from the violin to the cello?
- ALT1: ... that French cellist Nicolas-Joseph Platel is considered the founder of the Belgian school of cello playing? Source: "Nicolas-Joseph Platel, was born in Versailles" "He was regarded as the founder of the Belgian school of cello playing"
- ALT2: ... that Nicolas-Joseph Platel left Paris to go on a concert tour but ended up staying in Quimper for two years after making a friend there? Source: "In 1805 he left Paris in order to undertake a concert tour, but at Quimper, where he made the acquaintance of a cello playing dilettante, he remained quite two years"
- Reviewed:
AsYouWish13 (talk) 03:21, 27 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 27
editKurt Burris
- ... that Kurt Burris was the first American football lineman to finish among the top two in the Heisman Trophy voting?
- Source: The Oklahoman: "Burris finished a strong second ... Sixty-one years later, the Burris campaign remains the closest a lineman has come to winning the Heisman."
- ALT1: ... that Kurt Burris, who finished second in the Heisman Trophy voting, was remembered as a "headhunter" who "usually knocked two or three guys out of a game"? Source:
Same source as above which also says: "Lynn Burris called his brother a 'headhunter. He wouldn’t be able to play today. He usually knocked two or three guys out of a game...'" - Reviewed: Los Justicieros and Mark Smith
- Comment: The first hook is the more extraordinary fact (interior lineman almost never get the kudos) but I acknowledge that the term "lineman" may be less understandable to non-USA readers. Accordingly, I have linked the term and have also included alt 1 which should be more accessible to a broader audience.
Cbl62 (talk) 17:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing: - Marriage and children are unsourced
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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|
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Just the one sourcing issue; I don't see anything of issue otherwise with this nom. First hook clearly more interesting than the ALT. ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:48, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Carlisle Chang
- ... that Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, "possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean", was destroyed during an airport expansion?
- Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [43]
- ALT1: ... that "the most important work of art in the Caribbean", Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, was destroyed during an airport expansion? Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [44]
- ALT2: ... that Carlisle Chang helped design both the flag and the coat of arms of Trinidad and Tobago? Source: "Eventually, Chang got down to work, doing designs at night and submitting them on mornings to the Ministry of Home Affairs whose officials would eventually fly to London where the final designs had to be vetted and approved by Herald’s College. Chang disclosed that the Coat of Arms contains one key input from then premier, Dr Eric Williams, first prime minister of independent Trinidad and Tobago. “He wanted Tobago on the top of it, and that’s what he got. The palm tree on the top is Tobago.”
For the flag, Chang opted for blocks of red, white and black with very precise dimensions. In an interview with Banyan he explained that he was “determined that a child should be able to draw it with a ruler.”" [45] - Reviewed: pending
Guettarda (talk) 04:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC).
Mike Hasenfratz
- ... that referee Mike Hasenfratz acted in an ice hockey fight in Stay Tuned?
- Reviewed: Homer House and Republic Drug Store
- Comment: I volunteer two QPQ credits for one nomination, to help reduce the backlog of nominations without reviews.
Flibirigit (talk) 01:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC).
Ettore Verna
- ... that according to Billboard baritone Ettore Verna literally "sang himself out of his pants" during a performance at the Boston Opera House?
- Source: "Boston Opera Mess". Billboard. July 20, 1935. p. 18.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nina Tikhonova
- Comment: Moved to mainspace on November 27; 2nd QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/Revelation of the Magi
4meter4 (talk) 01:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
- Other problems: - Concern with phrasing.
QPQ: - Not done
Overall: New enough and long enough. Hook fact is cited and interesting, but "literally" does not appear in the source. It does say that he did it twice the same night, which could make the hook even hookier. Earwig shows no concerns. You need another QPQ, though, since we're in backlog mode and you have 94 reviews. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:07, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Crisco 1492 I think you are reading too much into the term literally. The word literally is in the hook so that its clear the phrase "sang his pants off" isn't interpreted as a figure of speech (as this phrase normally would be; which is why its funny/hooky). It needs to be there so the reader understands his pants literally fell down which is what actually happened as confirmed by multiple sources. Also, I already provided a second QPQ above in the comments section. Best.4meter4 (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi 4meter4. Unfortunately, "literally" is not the answer to your conundrum, as the source makes no indication that the singing was what resulted in the depantsing. Given that it was an opera, physical movement could have easily done it. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:43, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Crisco 1492 I think you are reading too much into the term literally. The word literally is in the hook so that its clear the phrase "sang his pants off" isn't interpreted as a figure of speech (as this phrase normally would be; which is why its funny/hooky). It needs to be there so the reader understands his pants literally fell down which is what actually happened as confirmed by multiple sources. Also, I already provided a second QPQ above in the comments section. Best.4meter4 (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Current nominations
editArticles created/expanded on November 28
editShalom Nagar
- ... that Shalom Nagar, executioner of war criminal and Nazi Party official Adolf Eichmann, said he was selected at random for the role?
- Source: BBC: Shalom Nagar, hangman of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann, dies - "He said he was selected at random to carry out the execution, and Eichmann was hanged on 30 May 1962."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Mary Chalmers
- Comment: Nominating on the assumption the current AFD keeps going the way it looks like it is. Please don't review until that's closed.
Jonathan Deamer (talk) 11:11, 4 December 2024 (UTC).
Tema "Sacher"
- ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" "a pathetic fragment which can only be explained by the desperate state of the composer's health at the the time"?
- Source: Music Reviews by Byron Adams
- ALT1: ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" a "truncated and barely coherent page [of music]" and "a pathetic fragment"? Source: Ibid
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sonya Friedman (opera), Template:Did you know nominations/Canticle V: The Death of Saint Narcissus
CurryTime7-24 (talk) 04:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 29
editGrid energy storage
- ... that energy on the grid can be stored in sand and salt?
- ALT1: ... that electric cars may provide enough storage by 2030 via vehicle-to-grid to meet all short-term grid energy storage needs? Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-35393-0
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Palaeotherium
—Femke 🐦 (talk) 20:50, 4 December 2024 (UTC).
Debra Toporowski
- ... that Debra Toporowski served simultaneously on the Cowichan Tribes council, on the North Cowichan council, and as acting mayor, before being elected to the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia?
- Source: "A member of Cowichan Tribes, Toporowski is a two-term elected councillor in the municipality of North Cowichan and a five-time councillor of Cowichan Tribes, the first elected woman to hold positions on two councils at the same time." Barron, Robert (4 November 2024). "Toporowski resigns from her council seat in North Cowichan". Lake Cowichan Gazette. Retrieved 29 November 2024.
"Toporowski was first elected to North Cowichan council in 2018 and again in 2022. She currently serves as acting mayor. She lost her seat on Cowichan Tribes council in 2022, but was elected again in 2024 to a four-year term." Pynn, Larry (May 14, 2024). "Debra Toporowski takes NDP nomination in Cowichan Valley by acclamation". Six Mountains. Retrieved October 20, 2024.
- ALT1: ... that before 1985, Debra Toporowski was unable to receive Indian status, because under the Indian Act, her mother was forced to relinquish her status because she had married a Chinese Canadian man? Source: "Before 1985, Debra Toporowski (Cowichan) could not be a member of the Cowichan Tribes because her Cowichan mother had married a Chinese Canadian man in Duncan. The Indian Act forced her mother to give up her status as a member of the Cowichan Nation." Claxton, Nicholas XEMŦOLTW̱; Fong, Denise; Morrison, Fran; O’Bonsawin, Christine; Omatsu, Maryka; Price, John; Sandhra, Sharanjit Kaur (2021). "Challenging Racist "British Columbia": 150 Years and Counting". CCPA-BC. University of Victoria and the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives (BC Office). Retrieved 2 December 2024.
- ALT2: ... that a local reporter described the vote count for Cowichan Valley as a "back-and-forth battle" taking place between Debra Toporowski and the second place Conservative candidate? Source: "The riding's next MLA will be Debra Toporowski, who won a back-and-forth battle with the Conservative's John Koury." Simpson, Sarah (20 October 2024). "B.C. ELECTION: NDP wins tight race in Cowichan Valley riding". Cowichan Valley Citizen. Retrieved 29 November 2024.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Upper Chehalis people Template:Did you know nominations/Lower Chehalis people
- Comment: Thank you in advance to the reviewer! This is the third in an unofficial series of four on articles regarding the Indigenous MLAs elected during the 2024 BC provincial election.
QPQs will be completed within the next few days.Done, per below. ALT1 truthfully is not the most outstanding, probably thousands were disenfranchised because of that exact provision. If someone is familiar with the loss of status due to the Indian Act, one can understand Toporowski's case is not unique. Larry Grant was another individual whose status was unrecognized because of that same provision. However, it can serve as an educational tool for those unfamiliar with those provisions.
Ornithoptera (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC).
- @Ornithoptera: Note that per current QPQ rules, "QPQs will be completed within the next few days" will not suffice: it has to be immediately, and the nomination can be closed if one is not provided promptly. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Well... They're done now, thanks for the heads up. Ornithoptera (talk) 11:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Hefker
- ... that hefker, unowned property in Talmudic law, came to express both personal freedom and societal abandonment in 20th C. Yiddish poetry?
- Source: Brenner, Naomi. "Milgroym, Rimon and Interwar Jewish Bilingualism." Journal of Jewish Identities 7, no. 1 (2014): 23-48, including "in Yiddish modernism hefker becomes a new mode of poetic identity that at once celebrates and suffers from this lack of belonging" " In contrast to Bergelson and Markish’s freedom and movement, Stencl’s hefker-yung is no free modernist spirit, but rather a crucified Jesus" Murav, Harriet. "David Hofshteyn’s Poetry of Listening." Lyre–Studies in Poetry and Lyric 1 (2023) including: "This essay examines the multiple resonances of the Jewish term hefker (literally,“unclaimed, abandoned, or neglected property”)... The pogrom cycle, as a whole, is a journey through the broken time and space of antisemitic violence."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/René Vallon
- Comment: While there are potential hooks from ancient Jewish law alone, the use of this dry legal principle in modernist Yiddish poetry is pretty amazing IMO and new to me. If we're concerned people won't know words like Talmudic and Yiddish, the hook can substitute 'Jewish' for either or both. Thanks.
ProfGray (talk) 21:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC).
Gonna suggest an alt :)
- ALT0a: ... that some 20th century Yiddish poetry incorporates the Talmudic concept of hefker?
Mm, not quite. Trying to figure out how to emphasize the time disparity. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 14:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Adrien Nunez
- ... that dispite limited playing time, Adrien Nunez (pictured) was higher paid than some NBA draft lottery picks while in college?
- ALT1: ... that when student athlete compensation was approved in 2021, Adrien Nunez (pictured) became Michigan basketball's top earning player, despite his small role on the team? Source: https://www.maizenbrew.com/basketball/2021/10/29/22749055/michigan-basketball-adrien-nunez-player-profile-2021-22
- ALT2: ... that less than three months after Adrien Nunez (pictured) released his own music, Billboard announced he was signed by Warner Music?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Zhou Jianyun
TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC).
- @TonyTheTiger: DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode so you will need to provide a second QPQ for this nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: That's a double nom.--Launchballer 15:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see, but it should have been mentioned in the nom to avoid confusion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: That's a double nom.--Launchballer 15:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Johannes Kaiser
- ... that Johannes Kaiser left the Progressive Citizens' Party in 2018, but re-joined a year later?
- ALT1: ... that Johannes Kaiser was an independent member of the Landtag of Liechtenstein from 2018 to 2019?
- ALT2: ... that Johannes Kaiser was considered the leading opponent to Liechtenstein's accession to the International Monetary Fund? Source: https://www.vaterland.li/liechtenstein/politik/regierungschef-risch-fordert-den-abgeordneten-kaiser-auf-bei-den-fakten-zu-bleiben-art-574259
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Trembleuse
TheBritinator (talk) 01:26, 29 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 30
editTwo Stars in the Milky Way
- ... that although Two Stars in the Milky Way (pictured) is one of few surviving early Chinese films, its soundtrack has been lost?
- Source: *Ma, Jean (2015). "Listening to Early Chinese Sound Film: Two Stars in the Milky Way" (PDF). Cine-Files. 8: 1–5. Archived from the original (PDF) on 24 September 2021. Retrieved 30 November 2024.
- ALT1: ... that Two Stars in the Milky Way (scene pictured) used intertitles for dialogue and sound for singing? Source: *Ma, Jean (2015). "Listening to Early Chinese Sound Film: Two Stars in the Milky Way" (PDF). Cine-Files. 8: 1–5. Archived from the original (PDF) on 24 September 2021. Retrieved 30 November 2024.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ettore Verna, Template:Did you know nominations/Mo Tzu-yi
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:02, 30 November 2024 (UTC).
Everett Railroad 11
- ... that Everett Railroad 11 was originally built for export to Cuba, but due to economical challenges in that country, it remained in the United States?
- Source: "Preservation - Everett joins the steam ranks". Trains. Vol. 75, no. 11. Kalmbach Media. November 2015. p. 92. Retrieved November 30, 2024.
- Reviewed:
Someone who likes train writing (talk) 15:25, 30 November 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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|
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting: - I think this article has the potential to yield more-interesting hooks. For example, the fact that the Narragansett Pier Railroad had to purchase a used locomotive in 1930 because of No. 11's maintenance issues, despite No. 11 being brand-new.
QPQ: None required. |
Overall: @Someone who likes train writing and Trainsandotherthings: Nice work on this article. The hook is mildly interesting, although I was wondering if you could propose other hooks as well. Otherwise, I did not see any other issues with this nomination. Epicgenius (talk) 23:02, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Comment In that case, how is this hook?:
- ALT1 ... that from 1926 to 1930, Everett Railroad 11 (pictured) was the only locomotive to be owned by the Narragansett Pier Railroad, which, despite No. 11 being brand new, made maintenance on it so unbearable that the railroad was forced to purchase a second locomotive for assistance?
- Source: Henwood, James N.J. (1969). A Short Haul to the Bay: A History of the Narragansett Pier Railroad. Brattleboro, Vermont: The Stephen Greene Press. pp. 36, 45. ISBN 08289-0101-5.. Someone who likes train writing (talk) 00:16, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I like the idea behind the hook. However, it is far too long, at 267 characters; per WP:DYK200 the absolute maximum length for hooks is 200 characters, so this needs to be significantly shortened. Epicgenius (talk) 00:34, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Comment Is this better?:
- ALT2 ... that for four years, Everett Railroad 11 (pictured) was the only locomotive to be owned by the Narragansett Pier Railroad, but it resulted in insufficient maintenance on No. 11, despite it being relatively new?
- Source: Henwood, James N.J. (1969). A Short Haul to the Bay: A History of the Narragansett Pier Railroad. Brattleboro, Vermont: The Stephen Greene Press. pp. 36, 45. ISBN 08289-0101-5.. Someone who likes train writing (talk) 01:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, that hook now implies that it was the only locomotive to be owned by any railroad. I think it would be better to mention the railroad's name directly. In the meantime, I've reached out to TAOT for hook ideas as well. Epicgenius (talk) 02:52, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I counted this one. It has less than 200 characters total.:
- ALT3 ... that Everett Railroad 11 (pictured) was once the only locomotive to be owned by the Narragansett Pier Railroad, making maintenance on it deficient, despite No. 11 being relatively new?
- Source: Henwood, James N.J. (1969). A Short Haul to the Bay: A History of the Narragansett Pier Railroad. Brattleboro, Vermont: The Stephen Greene Press. pp. 36, 45. ISBN 08289-0101-5.. Someone who likes train writing (talk) 17:39, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I think this can be polished further. So something like this:
- ALT3A ... that Everett Railroad 11 (pictured), once the only locomotive to be owned by the Narragansett Pier Railroad, was poorly maintained despite being relatively new? Epicgenius (talk) 02:30, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- I can accept the ALT3A version. If that’s interesting enough to make it to the DYK column at a short length, so be it. Someone who likes train writing (talk) 06:26, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
How about something related to the locomotive being unable to navigate the curves when it arrived and needing modification? Or mention of how the locomotive was retired, returned to service after 5 years, retired again, returned to the Narragansett Pier Railroad, went elsewhere and sat in a roundhouse for decades, and was then brought back to service again. Perhaps that the locomotive has run in Rhode Island, New York, and Pennsylvania for different railroads? Or simply that it was identified for restoration after spending 20 years in a roundhouse? I think we can come up with something better than the current hooks. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:26, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Comment How is this one? I can’t think of anything else interesting at a short length.:
- ALT4 ... that Everett Railroad 11 (pictured) was modified with blind middle driving wheels without flanges, after it met a sharp curve on the Narragansett Pier Railroad?
- Source: Henwood, James N.J. (1969). A Short Haul to the Bay: A History of the Narragansett Pier Railroad. Brattleboro, Vermont: The Stephen Greene Press. p. 36. ISBN 08289-0101-5.. Someone who likes train writing (talk) 03:24, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
1917 Moscow District Duma elections
- ... that in the 1917 Moscow District Duma elections, the Bolshevik Party won 97% of the votes of the soldiers at the heavy artillery workshops?
- Source: В. В. ДЕМИДОВ. Борьба московских большевиков за массы в период выборов в городскую и районные думы в 1917 году. Издание Томского государственного университета, 1952. pp. 74-75, 77, 79, 83, 91-92, Муниципальная жизнь. Вперёд!, September 27, 1917. p. 4
Soman (talk) 12:25, 30 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on December 1
editBut Daddy I Love Him
- ... that the title of Taylor Swift's song "But Daddy I Love Him" is a reference to the 1989 animated film The Little Mermaid?
- Source: The Guardian
- ALT1: ... that some journalists interpreted Taylor Swift's song "But Daddy I Love Him" as her criticism at her own fans? Source: BBC, The New York Times
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Alien: Romulus
Ippantekina (talk) 03:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC).
- Article was recently promoted to GA status, so qualifies for DYK. Earwig/copyvio pulls up some 'yellow' scores - entirely due to the repeated phrases including the song name and album title, so no problems there. QPQ has been done. The hook 'ALT0 is precise (it is the title of the song that is a reference to The Little Mermaid), works well for me, and is verified in the sources cited in the appropriate place in the article. ALT1 (for me) is not quite there in terms of the phrasing, so I'd steer for ALT0. Good to go! Chaiten1 (talk) 09:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
St Bride's Church, Mauku
- ... that St Bride's Church still has loopholes from use as a military outpost in the 19th century?
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Most of the sources in the article verify this.
Traumnovelle (talk) 20:59, 3 December 2024 (UTC).
George Bogaars
- ... that Singaporean bureaucrat George Bogaars was one of the first two students to receive a Master of Arts from the University of Malaya?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Eastern Venus and Template:Did you know nominations/Sun Haven (video game)
KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:59, 2 December 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review but this is not an interesting hook IMO. The fact that a bureaucrat was one of first two to receive a degree from a particular university says nothing about his importance or achievements and doesn't entice me to click to find out more about him. Surely there must be something more interesting? Cbl62 (talk) 21:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Good point, how about ALT1 ... that as head of Singapore's Secret Branch, George Bogaars oversaw the detention of 113 suspected communist sympathisers? KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 01:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - See below
- Interesting:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Good sounding article that was made within a week of nominating, is well sourced, and is good on plagiarism according to copyvio (this is assuming good faith for some sources that I can't access without a URL). The original hook as pointed out wasn't really interesting for such an interesting article, so ALT1 is definitely the better option. My one concern comes from the hooks citing, which after comparing with a digital copy of the cited news clipping, says that 114 were arrested, not 113. Minor, but still something that should be fixed before passing, which I'm happy to do after. Cheers! Johnson524 08:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Huaju
- ... that Chinese spoken drama (example pictured) resisted attempts to integrate traditional forms until after it was banned in the Cultural Revolution?
- Source: Liu, Siyuan (2023). "The "Deep Realism" of Style: From Michel Saint-Denis to Huang Zuolin". In Nakamura, Jessica; Saltzman-Li, Katherine (eds.). Realisms in East Asian Performance. University of Michigan Press. pp. 233–251. doi:10.3998/mpub.12254299. ISBN 978-0-472-07642-0. JSTOR 10.3998/mpub.12254299.18. for the 1920s; Liu, Siyuan (2017). "'Spoken Drama (Huaju) with a Strong Chinese Flavour': The Resurrection and Demise of Popular Spoken Drama (Tongsu Huaju) in Shanghai in the 1950s and Early 1960s". Theatre Research International. 42 (3): 265–285. doi:10.1017/S030788331700058X. for the 1950s; MacKerras, Colin (2008). "Tradition, Change, and Continuity in Chinese Theatre in the Last Hundred Years: In Commemoration of the Spoken Drama Centenary". Asian Theatre Journal. 25 (1): 1–23. doi:10.1353/atj.2008.0012. JSTOR 27568433. for today
- ALT1: ... that spoken drama (example pictured) was banned in China during the Cultural Revolution? Source: Liu, Siyuan (2003). "Huajü (Hua Chü)". In Kennedy, Dennis (ed.). The Oxford Encyclopedia of Theatre and Performance. doi:10.1093/acref/9780198601746.001.0001. ISBN 978-0-19-860174-6.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Bernard Gray (Sunday Pictorial journalist), Template:Did you know nominations/Epic: The Musical
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:33, 1 December 2024 (UTC).
Jonas Vaidutis
- ... that the Lithuanian duke Jonas Vaidutis was elected as the second rector of the oldest Polish university – Jagiellonian University after its restoration in the late 14th century?
- Source: First source: "Nuo 1401 Krokuvos universiteto rektorius (antrasis)." (English: Since 1401 Kraków University's rector (second); link to the source), second source: "1401 antruoju Jogailos universiteto rektoriumi išrinktas Jonas Vaidutis." (English: In 1401, Jonas Vaidutis was elected as the second rector of the Jogaila's University; link to the source).
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Cultural impact of Dragon Ball
- Comment: This is my ninth DYK nomination, so I performed QPQ before creating this nomination.
-- Pofka (talk) 21:54, 1 December 2024 (UTC).
Tellus (app)
- ... that even though California-based company Tellus does not possess a banking license, it offers non-FDIC-insured interest-bearing demand deposit accounts to consumers? Source: Barron's 1
- ALT1: ... that 68% of funds lent by Tellus between April and December 2023 were given to affiliates of one real estate investment firm to invest in Silicon Valley housing? Source: Barron's 2
- ALT2: ... that California-based startup Tellus pivoted from being a property management app to a consumer-facing financial services company? Source: Barron's 1
- ALT3: ... that while Tellus packages together cash from multiple consumer depositors to make real estate loans, and is not FDIC-insured, it states that it does not offer mortgage-backed securities to consumers? Source: TechCrunch
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Cherry on Top (Bini song) Template:Did you know nominations/Dithapelo Keorapetse
- Comment: QPQs completed.
— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 06:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC).
- This is not a review but rather than a comment, but ALT0 and ALT3 will probably have to be rejected due to both WP:DYKINT concerns (reliance on specialist terms that may not be easily understood by non-financial savvy readers, especially outside the US) and for also sounding rather promotional. ALT2 might be the only suitable option at this point. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I understand how one could read Alt0 to be promotional (though I disagree and don’t see why non-insured demand deposit accounts are appealing but for their higher rates, which isn’t in the hook). But I’m really not sure how Alt3 could be seen that way—it’s highlighting that they don't purport to offer mortgage-backed securities even though they make what appears (to at least some professors cited in the body) be some sort of securitized loan offering without registration. That being said, I do take your point that people who don’t know much about managing their finances through investment could find these two hooks’ nuances hard to understand.Separately, I had been considering a book about the mysterious non-existent partnerships with banks that are mentioned in the article and were the subject of Senate scrutiny, but I couldn’t figure out a way to write it concisely in hook form without oversimplifying. I’ll take a crack at that over the next couple days with a clear head. — Red-tailed sock (Red-tailed hawk's nest) 16:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on December 2
editAbortion in Mauritius
- ... that Mauritius's abortion law was "dormant for nearly two centuries", as one newspaper put it?
- Source: [46] First, the courage posted by the government proposing an amendment to a part of the legislation that has remained dormant for nearly two centuries must be recognized.
— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 20:57, 3 December 2024 (UTC).
Dear Jinri
- ... that Dear Jinri, a documentary film built around the final interview of late K-pop star Sulli (pictured), employs elements of L. Frank Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz as a framing device?
- ALT1: ... that Dear Jinri, a documentary film built around the final interview of K-pop star Sulli (pictured), employs elements of L. Frank Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz as a framing device?
- ALT2: ... that Dear Jinri, a documentary film built around the final interview of K-pop star Sulli (pictured) prior to her death, employs elements of L. Frank Baum's The Wonderful Wizard of Oz as a framing device?
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Credit to @Staraction for the hook idea.
RachelTensions (talk) 04:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: the word "late" should be removed from the hook per WP:WTA. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:11, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'm fine with removing it. I personally don't really see it as a cushy euphemism to avoid using "dead"; it just flows better in the sentence than "the final interview of dead K-pop star Sulli." But let's remove it. RachelTensions (talk) 13:13, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Meillet's principle
- ... that a linguistic reconstruction needs the testimony of three witnesses before it can be considered valid?
- Source: DeLancey 2023, p. 108
- ALT1: ... that a modified form of Meillet's principle has been used in the study of semantic change in the Oceanic languages? Source: François 2022, p. 32
- ALT2: ... that cognates are referred to as "witnesses" when Meillet's principle is applied in linguistic reconstruction? Source: DeLancey 2023, p. 108
- ALT3: ... that although typically three witnesses are needed in linguistic reconstruction, only two are necessary if borrowing and innovation can be ruled out? Source: DeLancey 2023, p. 108
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Kim Kuk-song
- Comment: Tried to stick with open access papers, but I understand they may be a little dense; I'm happy to explain anything that is unclear.
ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:33, 3 December 2024 (UTC).
Paradise Theater (Bronx)
- ... that at the Paradise Theater, Saint George once fought a dragon until both were stolen? Source: Verhovek, Sam Howe (June 11, 1988). "A Boulevard Tries to Recapture Majesty". The New York Times.
- ALT1: ... that at the Paradise Theater, sculptures of Saint George fighting a dragon were stolen from the facade? Source: Verhovek, Sam Howe (June 11, 1988). "A Boulevard Tries to Recapture Majesty". The New York Times.
- ALT2: ... that the organ console at New York City's Paradise Theater was installed there by mistake? Source: Beckerman, Jim (September 21, 2008). "Restored organ sparks memories in Jersey City". The Record. p. F.10.
- ALT3: ... that the opening of the Loew's Paradise Theatre increased patronage at a rival theater while decreasing patronage at another Loew's theater? Source: "Vaudeville: De Luxer Helps Rival". Variety. Vol. 98, no. 1. January 15, 1930. p. 44.
- ALT4: ... that two years after New York City's Paradise Theater opened, it escaped destruction because of a defective bomb fuse? Source: "Bomb in Bronx Theater Could Have Razed Block: Those Responsible Worse Than Gangsters, Says McLaughlin". New York Herald Tribune. September 14, 1932. p. 36.
- ALT5: ... that New York City's Paradise Theater was once called an "architectural atomic pile"? Source: Gray, Christopher (November 19, 2006). "Loew's Paradise Is Once Again Worthy of Its Name". The New York Times.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Peter Capaldi and Template:Did you know nominations/Light Vessel 93
- Comment: I can come up with more hooks later if desired.
Epicgenius (talk) 22:46, 2 December 2024 (UTC).
Remarks at the Islamic Center of Washington
- ... that George W. Bush, an Evangelical Christian, quoted from the Quran in a speech he delivered (pictured) as president of the United States? Source: Denise M. Bostdorff, "George W. Bush's Post-September 11 Rhetoric of Covenant Renewal: Upholding the Faith of the Greatest Generation", Quarterly Journal of Speech 89, no. 4 (2003): 301–302:
President George W. Bush
; andan evangelical Christian like the president
; andLikewise, in a highly visible speech at the Islamic Center of Washington, the president stated, "Let me quote fromthe Koran itself: 'In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who doevil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.' "
- ALT1: ... that George W. Bush, an Evangelical Christian, quoted from Muslim scripture in a speech he delivered (pictured) as president of the United States? Source: Same as ALT0; just a different way of phrasing it
- ALT2: ... that George W. Bush's remarks at the Islamic Center of Washington (pictured) on September 17, 2001, were not the first time he had publicly complimented Islam as president? Source: Ahmed H. al-Rahim, "Islam and the White House: American Presidential Discourse on Establishing Official Islam, 1993–2013", Middle East Journal of Culture and Communication 9, no. 1 (2016): 96:
President George W. Bush’s first official statement on Islam was made in early 2001, wherein he emphasized the shared values thesis and the role of Muslims in American life
and (quoting Bush),The variety of nations and cultures represented by those who travel to Mecca each year, and the varied ways in which Muslims contribute to American life across the United States, are powerful reminders that ethnic and racial differences need not divide us when we share common values and purposes.
- ALT3: ... that Democratic president Barack Obama said he was "very proud" of his Republican predecessor, George W. Bush, for what he said in his 2001 remarks at the Islamic Center of Washington (pictured)? Source: Josh Lederman, "On Muslims, Democrats Find an unlikely Ally: George W Bush", PBS NewsHour (December 25, 2015):
"I was very proud after 9/11 when he was adamant and clear about the fact that this is not a war on Islam," Obama said recently.
- Reviewed: Talk:Evgenia_Semenovskaya#Did_you_know_nomination
- Comment: Second QPQ: Talk:Grigorii_Nikolaevich_Maksimov#Did_you_know_nomination. Evgenia Semenovskaya and Grigorii Nikolaevich Maksimov were two articles in a 5-article nomination that I reviewed.
Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 09:35, 2 December 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on December 3
edit2024 attack on the Bangladesh Assistant High Commission in India
- ... that a Bangladeshi diplomatic mission in India was attacked by Hindu extremists affiliated to Vishva Hindu Parishad, protesting the arrest of a Hindu monk?
- Reviewed:
Za-ari-masen (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2024 (UTC).
Yanou Collart
- ... that Yanou Collart has been called a courtesan for food and friendship?
- Source: 1
- ALT1: ... that Yanou Collart's career was motivated by a desire to "never be dependent on a man"? Source: 1
- Reviewed:
🌸wasianpower🌸 (talk • contribs) 04:19, 4 December 2024 (UTC).
Council of District Dumas
- ... that in order to raise funds for the Council of District Dumas, its chairman Mikhail Vladimirsky (pictured) led an armed squad storming the Moscow headquarters of the State Bank?
- Source: Timothy J. Colton. Moscow: Governing the Socialist Metropolis. Harvard University Press, 1995. pp. 93-95, 105, 110
Soman (talk) 09:44, 3 December 2024 (UTC).
1957 Ruskin Heights tornado
- ... that the 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado threw an occupied car into a water tower, and the inhabitants survived?
- ALT1: ... that a check lifted by the 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado was found 165 miles away? Source: https://www.tornadotalk.com/ruskin-heights-f5-tornado-may-20-1957/
- ALT2: ... that the 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado has been described as having the appearance of several tentacles? Source: https://www.weather.gov/eax/RuskinHeights
- ALT3: ... that a memorial erected to honor the victims of the 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado was later damaged in a car crash? Source: https://fox4kc.com/news/push-to-rebuild-after-ruskin-heights-tornado-memorial-damaged/
- ALT4: ... that pilots reported flying debris at 30,000 feet altitude after the 1957 Ruskin Heights tornado? Source: https://www.tornadotalk.com/ruskin-heights-f5-tornado-may-20-1957/
- Reviewed:
- Comment: EF5 helped with the article a lot but did not write these hooks.
( ͡° ( ͡° ( ͡° ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ͡°) ͡°) ͡°) 02:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC).
- Personally, I like ALT1. Although I didn’t technically start the nom, I’ll still do a QPQ just to be fair. :) EF5 02:28, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Although technically the nom doesn't require a QPQ since you aren't the nominator, if you're going to do QPQs, just note that DYK is currently in backlog mode, meaning people with over 20 nominations will need to do two reviews instead of one. I think you still have less than 20 nominations so this doesn't apply to you so for now you only need to do just one review and not two, it's just something to keep in mind in case you get affected in the future. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:14, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on December 4
editLy Singko
- ... that Ly Singko—who had been raised in a Catholic household and worked for the Kuomintang's news agency—was imprisoned under Singapore's Internal Security Act for "glamourising the communist system"?
KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 07:13, 5 December 2024 (UTC).
American Wedding (song)
- ... that Frank Ocean's song "American Wedding" was pulled from streaming platforms after the Eagles threatened legal action for its unauthorized use of "Hotel California"?
- Reviewed:
jolielover♥talk 06:39, 5 December 2024 (UTC).
Black Slave's Cry to Heaven
- ... that the first modern Chinese play (playbill pictured) was staged in Tokyo and based on an American novel?
- Source: Liu, Siyuan (2013). Performing Hybridity in Colonial-Modern China. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. ISBN 978-1-137-30611-1., among others
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Last Dance (2024 film), Template:Did you know nominations/Backflip (figure skating)
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:28, 4 December 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on December 5
editLife Till Bones
- ... that one critic described some of Life Till Bones's melodies as akin to "trying to dig a hole in a bowl full of sugar"?
- ALT1: ... that Oso Oso wrote some of the songs for their fifth studio album before they had even released their third? Source: Some of the songs being brought into these sessions were older than the band’s 2019 record Basking in the Glow
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Kurt Burris
ThaesOfereode (talk) 04:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC).
Special occasion holding area
editThe holding area is near the top of the Approved page. Please only place approved templates there; do not place them below.
- Do not nominate articles in this section—nominate all articles in the nominations section above, under the date on which the article was created or moved to mainspace, or the expansion began; indicate in the nomination any request for a specially timed appearance on the main page.
- Note: Articles intended to be held for special occasion dates should be nominated within seven days of creation, start of expansion, or promotion to Good Article status. The nomination should be made at least one week prior to the occasion date, to allow time for reviews and promotions through the prep and queue sets, but not more than six weeks in advance. The proposed occasion must be deemed sufficiently special by reviewers. The timeline limitations, including the six week maximum, may be waived by consensus, if a request is made at WT:DYK, but requests are not always successful. Discussion clarifying the hold criteria can be found here: Hold criteria; discussion setting the six week limit can be found here: Six week limit.
- April Fools' Day hooks are exempted from the timeline limit; see Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Did You Know.