Template talk:Did you know
This page has a backlog that requires the attention of willing editors. Please remove this notice when the backlog is cleared. |
Backlog-mode enabled Please note that DYK is currently in a "backlog-mode". This means that editors who have made at least 20 DYK nominations must review two other DYK nominations (also known as two QPQs) per nomination. For a link to the discussion, please click here. To look up how many DYK nominations you have, please click here. |
There are currently 2 filled queues. Admin assistance in moving preps is requested.
- To discuss the content or layout of the Template:Did you know page itself, go to Wikipedia talk:Did you know.
This page is to nominate fresh articles to appear in the "Did you know" section on the Main Page with a "hook" (an interesting note). Nominations that have been approved are moved to a staging area and then promoted into the Queue. To update this page, it.
Count of DYK Hooks | ||
Section | # of Hooks | # Verified |
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September 27 | 1 | |
October 8 | 1 | |
October 9 | 1 | |
October 13 | 2 | |
October 15 | 2 | |
October 18 | 3 | |
October 19 | 3 | 2 |
October 20 | 2 | |
October 22 | 2 | |
October 23 | 1 | |
October 24 | 2 | 1 |
October 25 | 2 | 1 |
October 27 | 1 | 1 |
October 28 | 3 | 1 |
October 30 | 1 | |
October 31 | 4 | 1 |
November 1 | 2 | |
November 2 | 4 | 2 |
November 3 | 5 | 3 |
November 4 | 8 | 5 |
November 5 | 7 | 4 |
November 6 | 2 | 2 |
November 7 | 8 | 5 |
November 8 | 4 | 1 |
November 9 | 3 | 2 |
November 10 | 7 | 3 |
November 11 | 5 | 4 |
November 12 | 2 | |
November 13 | 5 | 4 |
November 14 | 4 | 3 |
November 15 | 7 | 5 |
November 16 | 5 | 3 |
November 17 | 5 | 3 |
November 18 | 14 | 13 |
November 19 | 10 | 6 |
November 20 | 8 | 7 |
November 21 | 12 | 9 |
November 22 | 10 | 6 |
November 23 | 2 | 2 |
November 24 | 5 | 3 |
November 25 | 6 | 4 |
November 26 | 6 | 2 |
November 27 | 10 | 8 |
November 28 | 5 | 4 |
November 29 | 10 | 5 |
November 30 | 6 | 6 |
December 1 | 11 | 8 |
December 2 | 2 | 1 |
December 3 | 2 | |
December 4 | 3 | |
December 5 | 5 | 1 |
December 6 | 4 | |
December 7 | 2 | |
December 8 | 4 | |
December 9 | 3 | |
Total | 254 | 141 |
Last updated 19:25, 9 December 2024 UTC Current time is 19:44, 9 December 2024 UTC [refresh] |
Instructions for nominators
editIf this is your first nomination, please read the DYK rules before continuing. Further information can be found at the DYK guidelines.
Frequently asked questions
editHow do I write an interesting hook?
Successful hooks tend to have several traits. Most importantly, they share a surprising or intriguing fact. They give readers enough context to understand the hook, but leave enough out to make them want to learn more. They are written for a general audience who has no prior knowledge of or interest in the topic area. Lastly, they are concise, and do not attempt to cover multiple facts or present information about the subject beyond what's needed to understand the hook.
When will my nomination be reviewed?
This page is often backlogged. As long as your submission is still on the page, it will stay there until an editor reviews it. Since editors are encouraged to review the oldest submissions first, it may take several weeks until your submission is reviewed. In the meantime, please consider reviewing another submission (not your own) to help reduce the backlog (see instructions below). Because of WP:DYKTIMEOUT, a nomination should be reviewed within two months since the reviewer/promoter may agree to reject and close an unpromoted hook after that time has passed.
Where is my hook?
If you can't find the nomination you submitted to this nominations page, it may have been approved and is on the approved nominations page waiting to be promoted. It could also have been added to one of the prep areas, promoted from prep to a queue, or is on the main page.
If the nominated hook is in none of those places, then the nomination has probably been rejected. Such a rejection usually only occurs if it was at least a couple of weeks old and had unresolved issues for which any discussion had gone stale. If you think your nomination was unfairly rejected, you can query this on the DYK discussion page, but as a general rule such nominations will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.
Instructions for reviewers
editAny editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, suggest new hooks, or even lend a hand and make edits to the article to which the hook applies so that the hook is supported and accurate. For a more detailed discussion of the DYK rules and review process see the supplementary guidelines and the WP:Did you know/Reviewing guide.
To post a comment or review on a DYK nomination, follow the steps outlined below:
- Look through this page, Template talk:Did you know, to find a nomination you would like to comment on.
- Click the "Review or comment" link at the top of the nomination. You will be taken to the nomination subpage.
- The top of the page includes a list of the DYK criteria. Check the article to ensure it meets all the relevant criteria.
- To indicate the result of the review (i.e., whether the nomination passes, fails, or needs some minor changes), leave a signed comment on the page. Please begin with one of the 5 review symbols that appear at the top of the edit screen, and then indicate all aspects of the article that you have reviewed; your comment should look something like the following:
If you are the first person to comment on the nomination, there will be a lineArticle length and age are fine, no copyvio or plagiarism concerns, reliable sources are used. But the hook needs to be shortened.
:* <!-- REPLACE THIS LINE TO WRITE FIRST COMMENT, KEEPING :* -->
showing you where you should put the comment. - Save the page.
- After the nomination is approved, a bot will automatically list the nomination page on Template talk:Did you know/Approved.
If there is any problem or concern about a nomination, please consider notifying the nominator by placing {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page.
Advanced procedures
editHow to promote an accepted hook
editAt-a-glance instructions on how to promote an approved hook to a prep area
|
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For more information, please see T:TDYK#How to promote an accepted hook. |
Handy copy sources:
To [[T:DYK/P1|Prep 1]]
To [[T:DYK/P2|Prep 2]]
To [[T:DYK/P3|Prep 3]]
To [[T:DYK/P4|Prep 4]]
To [[T:DYK/P5|Prep 5]]
To [[T:DYK/P6|Prep 6]]
To [[T:DYK/P7|Prep 7]]
How to remove a rejected hook
edit- Open the DYK nomination subpage of the hook you would like to remove. (It's best to wait several days after a reviewer has rejected the hook, just in case someone contests or the article undergoes a large change.)
- In the window where the DYK nomination subpage is open, replace the line
{{DYKsubpage
with{{subst:DYKsubpage
, and replace|passed=
with|passed=no
. Then save the page. This has the effect of wrapping up the discussion on the DYK nomination subpage in a blue archive box and stating that the nomination was unsuccessful, as well as adding the nomination to a category for archival purposes.
How to remove a hook from the prep areas or queue
edit- Edit the prep area or queue where the hook is and remove the hook and the credits associated with it.
- Go to the hook's nomination subpage (there should have been a link to it in the credits section).
- View the edit history for that page
- Go back to the last version before the edit where the hook was promoted, and revert to that version to make the nomination active again.
- Add a new icon on the nomination subpage to cancel the previous tick and leave a comment after it explaining that the hook was removed from the prep area or queue, and why, so that later reviewers are aware of this issue.
- Add a transclusion of the template back to this page so that reviewers can see it. It goes under the date that it was first created/expanded/listed as a GA. You may need to add back the day header for that date if it had been removed from this page.
- If you removed the hook from a queue, it is best to either replace it with another hook from one of the prep areas, or to leave a message at WT:DYK asking someone else to do so.
How to move a nomination subpage to a new name
edit- Don't; it should not ever be necessary, and will break some links which will later need to be repaired. Even if you change the title of the article, you don't need to move the nomination page.
Nominations
editOlder nominations
editArticles created/expanded on September 27
editPhoebe Plummer
... that during Phoebe Plummer's May 2024 jury trial over a climate protest, the court finished early on several days due to the heat? Source: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/15/uk-climate-activists-convicted-in-first-trial-of-new-anti-protest-lawsALT1: ... that an October 2022 protest involving Just Stop Oil member Phoebe Plummer inspired many activists worldwide to throw food at paintings? Source: https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/11/17/just-stop-oil-phoebe-plummer-prison/- ALT2: ... that when Phoebe Plummer and Anna Holland faced trial over the Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest, they were "unfortunate" to draw Christopher Hehir as judge? Source: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/30/just-stop-oil-soup-throwing-protests-moral-toddlerhood/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Zero-emission zone in Oxford, Template:Did you know nominations/CyberJoly Drim, Template:Did you know nominations/Ajah Pritchard-Lolo, Template:Did you know nominations/Alison Creagh
- Comment: Plummer was created 27 September, though I did a 5x expansion on 2 October, added Just Stop Oil Sunflowers protest three days later, added Christopher Hehir two days after that, and added Holland on 5 November.
Launchballer 03:13, 2 October 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Ooh, a quadruple hook. All of the articles are new enough, long enough, and well cited. There are a few places where phrasing could be a bit more neutral (I feel like inspired would be better than empowered, for example), but those may also be stylstic considerations. Earwig isn't happy, but it's the large block quote that speaks to Plummer's inspiration in that instance. Ideally Hehir's article would have a bit more on his early life, but if the sources aren't talking about it, rather difficult. (Minor quibble: the source says "unfortunately" rather than "unfortunate", but I think it works here). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 19:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- This has been sitting near the top of Approved for over a week. What else do I have to do to get this promoted? (For the record, I believe "unfortunately" --> "unfortunate" is covered by MOS:SIC.)--Launchballer 02:04, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Not entirely sure that Holland in particular meets the independent notability standards of WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- She's a lot more borderline than Plummer, I'll admit that. From memory, there's significant coverage of her role in Politico at least and this Prospect piece was what clinched it for me, but I will of course take another look later.--Launchballer 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- Since we are dealing with a BLP, I think we should veer on the side of safety as described in WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- I've had another look and I believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL#unusual crime.--Launchballer 00:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'll wait for another promoter's opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29: This nomination is over two months old. I still believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL, but is it worth posting at WT:DYK (though arguably this'll get another review when it's queued anyway)?--Launchballer 14:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, why not? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Posted there.--Launchballer 03:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, why not? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 20:12, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29: This nomination is over two months old. I still believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL, but is it worth posting at WT:DYK (though arguably this'll get another review when it's queued anyway)?--Launchballer 14:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'll wait for another promoter's opinion. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I've had another look and I believe Holland meets WP:CRIMINAL#unusual crime.--Launchballer 00:16, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Since we are dealing with a BLP, I think we should veer on the side of safety as described in WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- She's a lot more borderline than Plummer, I'll admit that. From memory, there's significant coverage of her role in Politico at least and this Prospect piece was what clinched it for me, but I will of course take another look later.--Launchballer 16:30, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- Not entirely sure that Holland in particular meets the independent notability standards of WP:CRIMINAL. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:03, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
I have started an AfD. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 13:29, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Nomination must go on hold until the AfD finishes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:38, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 8
editDiane Leather
- ... that Diane Leather was the first woman to run a mile in under five minutes?
Oldelpaso (talk) 22:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC).
- Can we do better than this? If any woman has run the mile in under 5 minutes, someone had to be the first, and the hook doesn't provide any more information. (t · c) buidhe 23:51, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you saying a world record isn't notable and/or hook worthy? Or are you asking for more context such as a link to Mile run world record progression? I was trying to keep the hook as succinct as possible. Oldelpaso (talk) 02:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Another issue is that the hook proposed is a "first" hook, which per WP:DYKHOOK usually needs exceptionally strong sourcing given the exceptional claim involved (how are we sure that no other woman before Leather ran a mile in under five minutes?) Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- The article includes cites describing her in those terms from the World Athletics website (the organisation that ratifies world records in the discipline, formerly known as the IAAF)[1], the BBC [2], Guardian [3], NYT [4], Washington Post [5] and others. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:37, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- I could work in some reference to Roger Bannister in the hook, as his far more well-known first sub-four minute mile occurred the same month and thus they are frequently compared, but I'd rather not. It was how overlooked Leather's achievement was compared to the male equivalent that prompted me to expand the article in the first place! Oldelpaso (talk) 21:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Another issue is that the hook proposed is a "first" hook, which per WP:DYKHOOK usually needs exceptionally strong sourcing given the exceptional claim involved (how are we sure that no other woman before Leather ran a mile in under five minutes?) Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:21, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Are you saying a world record isn't notable and/or hook worthy? Or are you asking for more context such as a link to Mile run world record progression? I was trying to keep the hook as succinct as possible. Oldelpaso (talk) 02:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- ... ALT1 ... that Diane Leather's records for the mile in 1953 and 1954 were labelled "world best" rather than "world record" because the distance was not officially recognised for women until 1967? @Oldelpaso, Narutolovehinata5, and Buidhe: See source here. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 00:32, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- A bit of a late comment, but ALT1 is probably a lot better because it's not a "first" hook and is thus more likely to be accurate. Plus it's also arguably more intriguing than a simple "first" hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing the hook fact in the quoted source. I didn't see the phrase "World best" at all on the cited page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Oldelpaso: Please address the above. For the record, I'd truncate ALT1 at "world record".--Launchballer 00:58, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- There are multiple sentences or paragraphs where the sourcing is unclear. Please see the {{citation needed}} tags added. Also, it appears that this article has not yet had a full review. Does any other user commenting here intend to? Flibirigit (talk) 22:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- I notice that the nominator has not edited since October 22. This nomination might need adoption if it will succeed. Flibirigit (talk) 12:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, with six days elapsed since my "Please address the above" comment, I would have threatened to say "I will close this in 24 hours if there is no progress on this".--Launchballer 12:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- I posted a message at WT:DYK. Let's see if anyone adopts this. I don't have the time to commit to it myself. Flibirigit (talk) 01:38, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, with six days elapsed since my "Please address the above" comment, I would have threatened to say "I will close this in 24 hours if there is no progress on this".--Launchballer 12:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- I found one missing reference, but having trouble with the others. But lets please put to bed this silly idea that we need better sourcing for being the first woman to run a 5 minute mile. It only took a few minutes of searching to find dozens of high quality sources for this fact. There is no reasonable doubt that it's true. And that's from somebody who complains about "first" hooks more than almost anybody. RoySmith (talk) 14:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'd also discourage User:Launchballer from shutting this down. WP:DYKTIMEOUT gives us the option to do that, but doesn't require it. This seems like an important topic and worth investing more effort. We do need to resolve the remaning citation needed tags and it looks like our best route to doing that is to find somebody with a subscription to Athletics Weekly. I've asked for assistance at WT:WikiProject Athletics. RoySmith (talk) 14:52, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Fine by me, however I'm slightly uneasy about ALT0 per WP:FIRSTWOMAN and I'd truncate ALT1 at "world record".--Launchballer 15:11, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
(ec) Just to make this more official, here's a formal review:
- Article is long enough.
- Article was 5x expanded between 2024-10-08 (3066 prose) and 2024-10-15 (15411 prose)
- This has appeared on OTD twice, most recently on May 29, 2023. I'n not a fan of rerunning material, but this does technically meet the requirement of WP:DYKNEW.
- Earwig reports no copyright or close paraphrasing issues.
- There are 5 "citation needed" tags which need to be resolved before this can be promoted.
- ALT0 is verified and interesting and thus approved, pending the resolution of the missing citations.
- I reject the WP:FIRSTWOMAN argument. That's valid for many things, but athletic records are always kept separately for men and women.
- Oh yeah, QPQ exempt
- RoySmith (talk) 15:37, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
In addition to the message I left on Oldelpaso's talk page, I sent them an email. Between that and the wikiproject request, I think we've done our due dilgence. So as not to be a total roadblock, how about we give it a week to see if any of those bear fruit, and if nothing happens by then, we can call it a day? RoySmith (talk) 22:03, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- That sounds fair, but just to make things clear, the nomination will time out anyway on the 14th, which is a day after one week from December 6. Regardless of what happens, marking the nom for closure on the 13th or 14th if issues remain unaddressed and no one adopts this/the nominator doesn't return seems fair. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the email. I'm only an occasional visitor, and had assumed this had been and gone. I'll look for cites. All things I remember reading, I just have to figure out where. The London Olympiades one in particular is one that can be found easily in less robust sources, but is implied without the neat explicit phrasing in the better ones I've tried so far. Is it me or has Google gone way downhill in the decade since I was a regular editor? Oldelpaso (talk) 16:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for coming back to work on this. I'm not usually a sports fan, but this one caught my eye as something interesting/significant that we should put some extra effort into promoting. RoySmith (talk) 16:39, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 9
editMusa al-Gharbi
- ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued since the 2016 election of Donald Trump that media outlets including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC have failed to understand his supporters?
- Source: "For the past four years, Al-Gharbi tried to tell anyone who would listen that Trump supporters did not in fact fit the sociological profile offered on The New York Times opinion page or on MSNBC’s nightly pearl-clutching roundtables." Tablet
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/School lunch in Japan
- Comment: A bit late of a nomination. Thank you Oganguly for your help! I would like this to run on 6 November, the day after the US Presidential election.
Thriley (talk) 07:16, 18 October 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: Thank you Thriley, for this. I will post a detailed review tomorrow. Regards, Aafi (talk) 18:02, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Thriley, Here follows the review:
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting: - ?
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Regards, Aafi (talk) 15:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
Although all checks are okay, I am not happy with how the proposed hook is worded? 183 characters is quite close to 200. Could you please suggest a few more hooks? Regards, Aafi (talk) 15:57, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Thriley: Please address the above.--Launchballer 12:20, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
@Aafi: is there something wrong with the hook aside from its length? Thriley (talk) 17:01, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- At a glance, I'd lose "including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC" and "since the 2016 election of Donald Trump" for concision, obviously replacing "his" with "Donald Trump's". (I wouldn't wikilink "his supporters" per MOS:EGG.)--Launchballer 21:26, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Aafi, Thriley, and Launchballer: Any updates on this one? This nomination is nearing two months old. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 19:19, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1 ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that since the 2016 presidential election media outlets including The New York Times opinion page and MSNBC have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump? Thriley (talk) 19:23, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:DYKTRIM, I was thinking along the lines of ALT1a: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?.--Launchballer 22:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am good with Launchballer proposed Alt1a, if Thriley doesn't have any objections to this, I would be glad to pass this one. Regards, Aafi (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Alt1a is not accurate. He is calling out specific media outlets. Thriley (talk) 12:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- What if we tweak it to something like, "several media outlets", which could make the case easily? Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1b: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that several media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?--Launchballer 12:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- This hook is too broad. He is specifically calling out liberal media outlets. Thriley (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- The source doesn't mention that either The New York Times or MSNBC are liberal and I think their leanings are extraneous and would qualify for trimming.--Launchballer 03:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Right. I would also suggest removing the image until we have permissions. Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Both of the outlets are part of the class of "symbolic capitalists" al-Gharbi describes in his book. To specify the outlets is essential. There's probably a better hook I can come up with. Will add it in the next 12 hours. Thriley (talk) 16:30, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Right. I would also suggest removing the image until we have permissions. Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:31, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- The source doesn't mention that either The New York Times or MSNBC are liberal and I think their leanings are extraneous and would qualify for trimming.--Launchballer 03:08, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- This hook is too broad. He is specifically calling out liberal media outlets. Thriley (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1b: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that several media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?--Launchballer 12:57, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- What if we tweak it to something like, "several media outlets", which could make the case easily? Regards, Aafi (talk) 12:54, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Alt1a is not accurate. He is calling out specific media outlets. Thriley (talk) 12:41, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I am good with Launchballer proposed Alt1a, if Thriley doesn't have any objections to this, I would be glad to pass this one. Regards, Aafi (talk) 07:28, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Per WP:DYKTRIM, I was thinking along the lines of ALT1a: ... that Musa al-Gharbi has argued that media outlets have failed to understand supporters of Donald Trump?.--Launchballer 22:26, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Thriley Its been 3 days since your comment, "Will add it in the next 12 hours". Regards, Aafi (talk) 08:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2 ... that Musa al-Gharbi argues that the U.S. is dominated by "symbolic capitalists"?
- ALT3 ... that Musa al-Gharbi argues that "symbolic capitalists" support social justice movements to amass social currency?
- ALT4 ... that one-time aspiring Catholic priest Musa al-Gharbi later converted to Islam?
- ALT5 ... that Musa al-Gharbi once wrote that U.S. presence was worse for the Middle East than ISIS?
- ALT6 ... that Musa al-Gharbi was too qualified to manage a store's shoe department? Bremps... 16:50, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- And use as the image hook; it is indisputably free. Bremps... 16:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Bremps: Thank you for the alt hooks. They are all ok, but I want to run something that details his work a bit more and draws readers. Thriley (talk) 22:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- And use as the image hook; it is indisputably free. Bremps... 16:36, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT7 that Musa al-Gharbi argues that Kamala Harris is a prototypical "symbolic capitalist", someone who supports social justice movements in order to further their own interests? Thriley (talk) 22:28, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:Thriley, the hook must comply with WP:DYKBLP (no hooks dedicated solely to unduly negative aspects of a person's character)
and WP:DYKHOOKCITE, as there's nothing on K. Harris in the article.This hook won't fly. Also, I'd caution against your first proposed hooks, as they're pretty common political sentiments. Bremps... 01:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- User:Thriley, the hook must comply with WP:DYKBLP (no hooks dedicated solely to unduly negative aspects of a person's character)
- ALT8...that Musa al-Gharbi argues that the U.S. is dominated by "symbolic capitalists" who depend on a "racialised caste system" of disposable servants? Thriley (talk) 03:05, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT9...that Musa al-Gharbi argues that American "symbolic capitalists", dependent on a "racialised caste system", support social justice movements to further their own interests? Thriley (talk) 03:16, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 13
editAnastasia Somoza
- ... that as a nine-year-old, disability rights advocate Anastasia Somoza lobbied U.S president Bill Clinton for her twin sister to be allowed to join her in a mainstream classroom? Source: Desert News
Innisfree987 (talk) 09:30, 13 October 2024 (UTC).
- Article is new enough, long enough, and within policy. No copyright violation detected. The hook however is not usable. “Mainstreaming” is an American special education term that only educators from the United States and American parents of special needs students are likely to be familiar with. As such it fails WP:DYKCRIT/ WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE for requiring specialized knowledge and not targeting a global audience. Additionally it is not at all clear the twin sisters are themselves disabled so the hook even to an American audience is confusing. We need a different hook.4meter4 (talk) 17:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hm, I am not in either of the groups you view as the only ones who know this term… Innisfree987 (talk) 22:26, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ok. I still think it is a term not familiar to most people and requires specialized knowledge.4meter4 (talk) 22:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm from England and we use it over here. I think this passes WP:DYKINT.--Launchballer 12:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Philippines here and while I do agree the use of "mainstream" is rather specialist (and I'm not sure if we use that word in that sense here), the context should be rather clear given the earlier mention of "mainstream". It's possible a different word to "mainstream" could be used, but the intended meaning seems accurate at least. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Ok. I still think it is a term not familiar to most people and requires specialized knowledge.4meter4 (talk) 22:36, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Given, my difference of opinion with two editors, I will allow a new editor to review this.4meter4 (talk) 15:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Would changing "mainstream" to "normal" or "regular" address concerns, or are such terms considered loaded or pejorative in this context? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:11, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, even if you don't understand the precise technical meaning of "mainstream", I think from context it's clear that the sister is educated separately and the subject is fighting that. Would it help to have the hook say "her special needs sister" to provide additional context? I think "normal" or "regular" comes off pejorative in this context. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- @PMC, how about,
- For what it's worth, even if you don't understand the precise technical meaning of "mainstream", I think from context it's clear that the sister is educated separately and the subject is fighting that. Would it help to have the hook say "her special needs sister" to provide additional context? I think "normal" or "regular" comes off pejorative in this context. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 07:36, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
ALT1 ... that as a nine-year-old, disability rights advocate Anastasia Somoza lobbied U.S president Bill Clinton for her twin sister, who attended a special-education classroom, to be allowed to join her in a regular classroom?Source: Desert News
- This is closer to the sourcing given and it removes ambiguity. TarnishedPathtalk 11:04, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for this suggestion, the wording works for me. I think it goes over the character count though? Innisfree987 (talk) 12:20, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- It does, it's 218 characters, and I strongly recommend going shorter anyway. There's no need to tell the whole story in a hook; you want to leave enough to entice the reader.--Launchballer 13:06, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2 ... that as a nine-year-old, Anastasia Somoza lobbied U.S president Bill Clinton for her twin sister to be allowed to join her in a mainstream classroom?
- It lacks context, but I guess the point would be to make people find out why she lobbied? As in, it hooks possible readers? Or is the lack of context detrimental in this case? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:32, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- That works for me, thank you for the idea! Or even,
- ALT3 ... that as a nine-year-old, Anastasia Somoza lobbied U.S president Bill Clinton?
- Shorter and more hooky still? I’d be fine with either. Innisfree987 (talk) 02:34, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
- That works for me, thank you for the idea! Or even,
Nazi crimes against children
- ... that Nazi crimes against children resulted in over two million victims, from actions such as euthanasia to kidnapping and mass murder? Source: 2m estimate from cited book Lukas (1994). For other keywords, see academic sources cited in relevant sections
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:09, 13 October 2024 (UTC).
- Hellow Piotrus, review is as follows: article created within 7 days of nomination, hook is good, article is well-written, QPQ done, offline source accepted in good faith. Nihil obstat. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 02:41, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Piotrus, I don't think this meets WP:DYKCOMPLETE, it seems generally focused on Poland. I would expect more coverage of children from other occupied territories too. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:42, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @AirshipJungleman29: I thought it was generally focused on euthanasia (of disabled or sick children)? About half of the article is about that, Poland is primarily covered under shorter 'collective punishment'. Based on sources I found this seems to be due, and I think I link to all subarticles. Based on my lit review for this (note I am not aiming to get this to GA, too depressing) the sources focus primarily on euthanasia, with plight of Jewish and Polish children discussed by fewer sources; anything else seems to be pretty fringe (or at least, I did not find any sources focusing on other topics, nor Wikipedia articles to summarize in relevant subcategories). PS. I see there was also one more paragraph mostly about Poland in 'other crimes', but I stand by my view that this reflects what the sources say. That said, I realized I forgot to write up about Nazi child soldiers - I've added a paragraph. I expect more could be said, but this seems very poorly researched; it took me half an hour before I found a reliable source with some data on this (I couldn't even locate a single academic article that would cover this...). PS. I've added a bit more content, mostly about non-Polish topics. I expect more could be added, but I cannot locate sources (for example, surely Nazis used collective punishment in USSR and murdered children there, but I am unable to locate any work covering this - perhaps it requires a Russian speaker to query Russian or other Cyrillic sources). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 01:59, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Piotrus, I don't think this meets WP:DYKCOMPLETE, it seems generally focused on Poland. I would expect more coverage of children from other occupied territories too. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:42, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. In my opinion the article is currently at a C class on the content-assessment scale which is perfectly fine for a DYK nom. I agree that this would be incomplete per a GA or FA review standard, but it gives a reasonable overview of the topic and has an excellent sampling of more than 40 high quality academic sources within the literature. This shouldn't be held up under a WP:DYKCOMPLETE rationale.4meter4 (talk) 16:36, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 15
editCommon fixed point problem
- ... that in 1967, two mathematicians published PhD dissertations independently disproving the same thirteen-year-old conjecture?
- Source: "The purpose of this paper is to answer Dyer's question in the negative by the construction of a pair of commuting functions which have no fixed point in common. [...] This paper is a condensation of the author's 1967 doctoral dissertation", from a paper by Boyce . "It has been conjectured that any two continuous functions f, g mapping the closed unit interval into itself which commute under composition [...] must have a common fixed point [...] Chapter 2 defines a pair of functions which show that the conjecture is false", from Huneke's 1967 PhD dissertation.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: If the reviewer doesn't have ProQuest access, I can provide a copy of Huneke's dissertation over email.
jlwoodwa (talk) 19:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC).
- Starting review...
- Article is new enough and long enough
- Sources all appear to be WP:RS and for the most part, adequately cited with in-line citations. There are however two {{citation needed}} tags which need to be addressed.
- Earwig calls out a few phrases here and there but they all look like technical terms which can't be rephrased, so no problems there.
- Extra brownie points for taking an exceptionally technical article and writing a hook which will appeal to most readers. RoySmith (talk) 22:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
@Jlwoodwa: just want to make sure you saw this. RoySmith (talk) 01:18, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith: Thanks for the ping. I've removed the first statement tagged with {{citation needed}} (since WillisBlackburn said on the talk page that it turned out to be false), and added a citation for the other statement. jlwoodwa (talk) 01:58, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this closer, I see that there's still some statements that need citations. I've added some more {{citation needed}} tags. My apologies for not picking up on this the first time. RoySmith (talk) 02:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jlwoodwa: please see the above. RoySmith (talk) 14:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like the claim in the hook is sourced to the dissertations themselves, so there's no source actually saying they were independent, which sounds like a WP:SYNTH problem to me. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 11:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Secondary sources agree that Boyce and Huneke came up with their solutions independently. For example, from the Brown article: "It seems appropriate that a question that independently occurred to more than one person should have been answered independently by two people." The McDowell article: "The Dyer/Shields/Dubins/Isbell conjecture (hereafter referred to as the common fixed-point conjecture) was independently settled in the negative by William M. Boyce [7] and Huneke [22] in 1967." The McCrosky dissertation: "Finally, in 1967, the unit interval was shown to not have the common fixed point property by two men working independently on their dissertations." And of course Huneke's published paper (separate from his disseration) says "Simultaneous to and independent of the author's preceding work, W. M. Boyce [1], [2] constructed essentially the same solution." WillisBlackburn (talk) 22:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looks like the claim in the hook is sourced to the dissertations themselves, so there's no source actually saying they were independent, which sounds like a WP:SYNTH problem to me. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 11:16, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jlwoodwa: please see the above. RoySmith (talk) 14:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at this closer, I see that there's still some statements that need citations. I've added some more {{citation needed}} tags. My apologies for not picking up on this the first time. RoySmith (talk) 02:06, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Ratnākara
- ...
that Ratnākara may have invented the poetic device of vakrokti ("verbal distortion")?
- Source: Bronner and McCrea 2001 439–440.
ALT1: ... that Ratnākara's Vakroktipañcāśikā contains fifty verses of dialogue between Śiva and Pārvatī, employing the poetic device of vakrokti ("verbal distortion")?ALT2: ... that a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir, covering two "gaps" in Kalhaṇa's Rājataraṅginī, is attributed to Ratnākara?- Reviewed:
TryKid [dubious – discuss] 07:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC).
- A new hook with additional context might be needed here, as the typical reader might not understand the intended meaning of the hook. Essentially, it might not meet WP:DYKINT, specifically the part about specialist knowledge. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:29, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5:, I've expanded the hook to make it clearer, and added two alternative hooks. I have no significant preference for any of them over others; feel free to chose any or suggest improvements if this is still unsatisfactory. I could add a note in the article explaining vakrokti in detail if current wording feels too confusing. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 10:17, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- It might be better to just focus on ALT2 as ALT1 still seems to rely on specialist knowledge and not something that's self-evident from a reading. ALT2 is still slightly specialist but it's at least more understandable. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:02, 3 November 2024 (UTC)
The nominator has been given well over a month to propose a usable hook. The current hooks require specialized knowledge and fail the WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE guideline. Given how much time has passed since this issue was pointed out by Narutolovehinata5 to TryKid, it is time to pass on this nomination.4meter4 (talk) 18:01, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- 4meter4, my understanding was that Narutolovehinata5 had passed on the review for someone else to do it, not that I was being asked to make a new hook! That's not what I expected "Symbol redirect vote 4" to mean. It's fine if it's too late to salvage this, but Narutolovehinata5 and other reviewers, please be clearer about this stuff, and clearly state what is expected from the nominators. TryKid [dubious – discuss] 18:44, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid I'm happy to hold off on a rejection if you still wish to try and propose a usable hook. Narutolovehinata5 has raised a WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE objection, which I agree with. You need to propose a hook that anyone can understand which means contextualizing the term "Ratnākara" (most people won't know what or who this is; ie its not clear this is even a person in the current hooks). I also would avoid using too many foreign language terms or names. "Kalhaṇa's Rājataraṅginī" for example will have no obvious context or meaning to the average English speaking person. You need to try and find a hook fact that someone who knows nothing about India or its history or its literature or its languages can understand. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid here is an example of a hook that would be understandable to an English reader: ...that the poet Ratnākara is credited with authoring a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir that fulfills two gaps in the historical chronicle of the north-western part of Indian sub-continent? Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- 4meter4, I thank you for the suggestion, and for allowing the nom more time despite the initial miscommunication. How about
ALT 0a: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "willful misconstrucal" (vakrokti)? - I understand it's not immediately clear what "willful misconstrucal" is to a non-specialist audience, but it would be something that draws the audience in, rather than all of the interesting information being in the hook. The phrase is from the Bronner and McCrea, p.436: "This device, vakrokti – “verbal perversion” or, more literally, “distortive-talk” – is traditionally defined as one speaker’s willful misconstrual of what has been said by another."
- If this still fails the "specialised knowledge" criterion, feel free to reject the nomination as you initially intended, I can't really think of anything much better. Articles like this might not be cut-out for DYK. There's a "longest extant Sanskrit mahākāvya" hook, but that already ran with Haravijaya itself. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 20:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid I think it reads weirdly but a slight modification based on that quote would be better:
ALT 0b: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal perversion" (vakrokti)?I think this is hookier because the language is much more provocative. It will grab a reader's attention.4meter4 (talk) 21:17, 28 November 2024 (UTC)- @4meter4 I don't think putting up suggestive stuff or innuendos even in a "bait and switch" contexts is a good DYK practice. Any of the other phrases from the paper—distortive talk, willful misconstrucal, intentional misinterpretation, verbal distortion—would be better. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 21:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid That's fair. Based on that I think this would work: ALT 0c: ... that the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal distortion" (vakrokti)?
- I am going to have another editor look at this alt since arguably I helped write Alt Oc.4meter4 (talk) 21:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @4meter4 I don't think putting up suggestive stuff or innuendos even in a "bait and switch" contexts is a good DYK practice. Any of the other phrases from the paper—distortive talk, willful misconstrucal, intentional misinterpretation, verbal distortion—would be better. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 21:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid I think it reads weirdly but a slight modification based on that quote would be better:
- 4meter4, I thank you for the suggestion, and for allowing the nom more time despite the initial miscommunication. How about
- @TryKid here is an example of a hook that would be understandable to an English reader: ...that the poet Ratnākara is credited with authoring a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir that fulfills two gaps in the historical chronicle of the north-western part of Indian sub-continent? Best.4meter4 (talk) 19:19, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TryKid I'm happy to hold off on a rejection if you still wish to try and propose a usable hook. Narutolovehinata5 has raised a WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE objection, which I agree with. You need to propose a hook that anyone can understand which means contextualizing the term "Ratnākara" (most people won't know what or who this is; ie its not clear this is even a person in the current hooks). I also would avoid using too many foreign language terms or names. "Kalhaṇa's Rājataraṅginī" for example will have no obvious context or meaning to the average English speaking person. You need to try and find a hook fact that someone who knows nothing about India or its history or its literature or its languages can understand. Best.4meter4 (talk) 18:56, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Just need an editor to approve of Alt Oc.4meter4 (talk) 21:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT0c fails WP:DYKDEFINITE as it is not a definite fact and would require attribution anyway.--Launchballer 12:13, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Launchballer, are attributed statments allowed on DYK? How about ALT 0d: ... that according to Yigal Bronner and Lawrence McCrea, the poet Ratnākara may have invented the Sanskrit-language poetic device of "verbal distortion" (vakrokti)?
- Alternatively, a simpler version of alt2: ALT2b: ... that a now-lost chronicle of the kings of Kashmir is attributed to the author Ratnākara?
- Even ALT1b: ... that the Sanskrit-language poem Vakroktipañcāśikā, authored by Ratnākara, employs the poetic device of "willful misconstrucal"? I believe these should be understandable by a lay Western audience. regards, TryKid [dubious – discuss] 16:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 18
edit2024 Kansas City metropolitan area rent strike
- ... that a rent strike in Missouri (pictured) is the first to ever target the United States federal government?
💽 LunaEclipse 💽 ⚧ 【=◈︿◈=】 00:15, 18 October 2024 (UTC).
- Article is new and long enough. Article is well-sourced, neutral, and only pings on Earwigs for some long proper titles. Hook is cited, short enough, and interesting. QPQ has been completed. Image is freely licensed, clear at a diminished size, and used in the article. Morgan695 (talk) 15:43, 1 November 2024 (UTC)
- @LunaEclipse, Morgan695, and AirshipJungleman29: pulled, as no one responded to this message and it's in queue now :) will probably need a new hook. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Theleekycauldron, ALT1: ...that tenants burned their late rent notices as part of a strike? 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 22:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- (source jic) 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 22:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- looks like the body of the article says they burned the notices? (see WP:HEADLINE) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:09, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I've reworded the hook accordingly. 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 11:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @LunaEclipse: Seems to check out. I'm sorry to jerk you around on this, but is this article notable under WP:NEVENT? There's no analysis-based coverage, it's all primary-source reporting, and all of the coverage seems to be from local or niche publications. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:56, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I've reworded the hook accordingly. 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 11:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- looks like the body of the article says they burned the notices? (see WP:HEADLINE) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:09, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- (source jic) 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 22:55, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- Theleekycauldron, ALT1: ...that tenants burned their late rent notices as part of a strike? 💽 LunaEclipse 💽 🌹 ⚧ (CALL ME IF YOU GET LOST) 22:54, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Luo Shiwen
- ... that Luo Shiwen (pictured) led a secret cell of the Chinese Communist Party while detained at a Kuomintang concentration camp?
- Source: * Li Jingya (李惊亚) (4 April 2024). 探访息烽集中营旧址,追寻先烈们的热血与信仰 [Visit the Site of Xifeng Concentration Camp and Trace the Passion and Faith of the Martyrs]. Xinhua Daily Telegraph (in Chinese). Xinhua News Agency. Archived from the original on 14 October 2024. Retrieved 14 October 2024. (existence of the secret cell and its power is also confirmed by Mühlhahn, Klaus (2009). Criminal Justice in China: A History. Cambridge: Harvard University Press. p. 144. ISBN 978-0-674-05433-2.)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anaïs Gallagher (3 of 3)
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing: - Much of the article is cited to sources like "Devoting One's Efforts to the Party and the People is the Least of One's Worries——Deeds of Martyr Luo Shiwen", which doesn't speak well to their reliability. There is no consensus that Chinese government published sources are reliable for heroic deeds of party members (see, eg, WP:XINHUA).
- Neutral: - Unclear, see above
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - ? Unable to evaluate translation copyvio from Chinese language sources
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting: - Hook could use improvement. Such underground groups developed in so many locations that political prisoners are jailed together
Image eligibility:
- Freely licensed:
- Used in article:
- Clear at 100px: - Bad quality pic, main page viewers would be better served by not running it
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: (t · c) buidhe 04:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Buidhe. Thank you for taking a look at this article, though I note that you are supposed to notify the article's creator if you find issues.
- Referring to WP:XINHUA, which you mentioned in your review, the quorum mentioned there reads "Caution should be exercised in using this source, extremely so in case of extraordinary claims on controversial subjects or biographies of living people. When in doubt, try to find better sources instead; use inline attribution if you must use Xinhua." Little mentioned in the Luo Xinhua article crosses the bar of "extraordinary claims", and what does cross that bar is specifically attributed to the source (with an indication that it is state-owned). He lived, he did something, he was detained, he was executed. Where these government sources have been used, I have been careful not to use their description of persons whom the CCP has no reason to like (for example, the conflict with Zhang Guotao is cited to Howard rather than the decidedly less neutral CCP sources, and discussion of Xifeng is cited predominantly to a Harvard University Press book). Likewise, I have deliberately excluded politically charged claims such as Luo's father being bankrupted by the high ROC taxes.
- As per WP:PARTISAN, "reliable sources are not required to be neutral, unbiased, or objective." WP:CONTEXTMATTERS clarifies that "Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content." In this case, the sources are used specifically for basic statements of biography. Where statements were extraordinary, such as Mao and Zhou specifically asking for Luo's release, it has been attributed to the source with an indication of the source's potential bias.
- As for the hook, I am deliberately avoiding claims that are sourced exclusively to state-media. How do you feel about:
- ALT1 ... that Luo Shiwen (pictured) led a secret cell of the Chinese Communist Party that negotiated better conditions for inmates at their concentration camp?
- That ALT is supported entirely by Mühlhahn. Regards, — Chris Woodrich (talk) 12:28, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Xinhua is, according to consensus,
generally reliable for factual reporting except in areas where the government of China may have a reason to use it for propaganda
, but this topic is exactly one where the Chinese government would have an interest in distorting its own history in order to make the CCP look better. Perhaps other reviewers would have a different opinion, but I don't think that Chinese government published sources should be cited so heavily. (In case you are looking for additional sources, this one is accessible via TWL and seems to mention the article subject). (t · c) buidhe 00:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC)- I think I have Wakeman sitting around somewhere. I'll cite that for a few points, and I can cite some more to the pithy provided by Howard. That being said, a blanket prohibition against mainland Chinese sources (we've been talking about Xinhua, but Sichuan Annals are cited more prevalently, and both the original books and the web edition have the same government ties) for a figure of little interest to KMT historians does seem counter-productive. It may be best to have a third opinion. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:39, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Buidhe: Have your concerns been resolved and is this approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 23:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
- I think we were looking at having a third party take a look, but I wasn't sure how to proceed. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:17, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- I also don't think there should be a ban on CCP sources for uncontroversial statements. I'll investigate further when my head's a bit clearer.--Launchballer 10:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- Or indeed, any Chinese government-backed sources; claims should be assessed on their merits. (They probably aren't making up "son of a saltmonger", for example.) @Buidhe: what specific sentences are you objecting to?--Launchballer 13:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- My interpretation (see above) is that there is a consensus that the Chinese government sources are not reliable where they have an incentive to lie for propaganda purposes. When it comes to the heroic deeds of a Communist party member, there is an obvious incentive for propaganda. This does not apply to basic biographical information that does not reflect positively or negatively on the subject (t · c) buidhe 02:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Crisco 1492: Are you able to find other, more reliable sources to verify the information? Z1720 (talk) 15:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Z1720; as I mentioned above, I have attributed all extraordinary claims to non-Party sources, or made it explicit that sources may be biased in the running text. The remainder is, to the best of my assessment, basic biographic data (for example, "At the time, following the May Fourth Movement and in the midst of the New Culture Movement, he and his cousins had begun reading communist publication", cited to the Sichuan Annals). One might object to "inciting more [peasant] uprisings", but given that was the standard MO of the CCP in the 1930s, I don't feel that it meets the extraordinary or heroic threshold. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Looking at the article, I don't think any of the claims sourced to refs 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 13, 17, 18, or 19 meet the criteria outlined at WP:EXCEPTIONAL.--Launchballer 01:18, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Crisco 1492: Are you able to find other, more reliable sources to verify the information? Z1720 (talk) 15:48, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- My interpretation (see above) is that there is a consensus that the Chinese government sources are not reliable where they have an incentive to lie for propaganda purposes. When it comes to the heroic deeds of a Communist party member, there is an obvious incentive for propaganda. This does not apply to basic biographical information that does not reflect positively or negatively on the subject (t · c) buidhe 02:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Xinhua is, according to consensus,
Requesting a reviewer. Right now we seem to be at an impasse. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
White Party (Sean Combs)
- ... that Sean Combs promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?
- Source: ["No one would ever expect a young black man to be coming to a party with the Declaration of Independence, but I got it, and it's coming with me ... And I promise not to spill champagne on it" https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2004/07/07/p-diddy-does-politics/, https://archive.is/ivRpf, P. Diddy does politics, The Tampa Bay Times, 7 July 2004]
No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC).
- Hello No Swan So Fine: article created within a week of nomination; QPQ checks out; hook is interesting; no copyvio detected; source checks out. My only question: would it be better to call Mr. Combs by his more well known name of P. Diddy or Diddy? I'm not sure if I'd click on the DYK if it said Sean Combs, I'd be much more likely to do so if it said Diddy, given the recent news and memes. My only thought. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 05:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Darth Stabro: I think we should respect the name he currently goes by ... but P. Diddy is certainly better for views! No Swan So Fine (talk) 19:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- No Swan So Fine sounds good! Nihil obstat. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 04:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Darth Stabro and No Swan So Fine: I have MOS:EGG concerns regarding the hook, in that no-one will know where the bolded link goes. Any way to rephrase? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- No Swan So Fine sounds good! Nihil obstat. ~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 04:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 19
editIzvestiya Soveta rabochikh i soldatskikh deputatov goroda Askhabada
- ... that Izvestiya Soveta rabochikh i soldatskikh deputatov goroda Askhabada was the first Bolshevik newspaper published in the Transcaspian Oblast?
- Source: А. А Росляков. Большевики Туркменистана в борьбе за власть Советов. Туркменское государственное изд-во, 1961. p. 328
Soman (talk) 17:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: We've had issues with hooks about "firsts", particularly when it comes to newspapers. It's best to avoid superlatives that are difficult to substaniate, but it's also not that interesting. Also, why not have the title in English? RoySmith is working on an essay that explores the idea: First is worst. Viriditas (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- I think there are a few different issues here. I see the argument that RoySmith is trying to make in the draft essay, but at the same time that's a draft essay and not a policy at this stage. Blanket avoidance of any superlatives will have a pretty big impact on the entire DYK process, and whilst I think it fair to reflect on the issues linked to claims of 'first', 'biggest' etc I would not agree to that it should be enforced as a strict rule.
- One say to perhaps make the hook slightly more interesting would be to rephrase Transcaspian Oblast (unknown to most readers) to 'present-day Turkmenistan'. It is slightly different than to say 'first Bolshevik newspaper in Pskov', it illustrates that the political organization of the movements of the Russian revolution covered what is today many different countries and societies.
- Another approach for ALT could be to focus on the role of the newspaper in the tensions inside the Ashkhabad Soviet, that the newspaper supposedly published by the Soviet frequently attacked the leadership of the Soviet. But I find it more difficult to construe the sourcing to explicitly state that the newspaper was indeed the organ of the Soviet (in spite of the name), it seemingly was a Bolshevik party organ de facto.
- In regards to the name, I generally think translating newspaper names is a bad idea. We refer to Le Monde as Le Monde, not The World. We refer to Pravda as Pravda, not Truth. And so forth. With Chinese newspapers there are some cases where it possible to argue to that names like People's Daily could be considered WP:COMMONNAME, although I think that is gradually becoming an anachronism. --Soman (talk) 09:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- Surely, the paper was known by a nickname that can be used? It seems unlikely that anyone would say, "Hey comrade, did you read the News of the Council of Workers and Soldiers Deputies of the City of Askhabad this morning?" Viriditas (talk) 09:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- I find 'Известия Асхабадского Совета' being used in some sources. --Soman (talk) 01:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Soman: That's a good step forward. Can it be added to the article with the English translation? And can we use the shortened format in the hook? Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- How about ALT1 - "... that Izvestiya Askhabadskogo Soveta was the first Bolshevik newspaper published in present-day Turkmenistan? The alt name added in article now. --Soman (talk) 00:28, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Soman: That's a good step forward. Can it be added to the article with the English translation? And can we use the shortened format in the hook? Viriditas (talk) 09:05, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- I find 'Известия Асхабадского Совета' being used in some sources. --Soman (talk) 01:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- Surely, the paper was known by a nickname that can be used? It seems unlikely that anyone would say, "Hey comrade, did you read the News of the Council of Workers and Soldiers Deputies of the City of Askhabad this morning?" Viriditas (talk) 09:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 20
editMwene Muji
... that Mwene Muji was a polity in the Congo Basin which declined in the late 19th century, and when the Belgians collected traditions in 1926, grand claims of its once imperial status were dismissed?ALT1 ... that Mwene Muji was a polity in the Congo Basin, and when the Belgians collected traditions in 1926, grand claims of its once imperial status were dismissed?- ALT2 ... that the grand claims from the ruler of Mwene Muji of them once having imperial status were dismissed by Belgian colonial authorities?
- Source: [9]
- Reviewed:
Kowal2701 (talk) 19:48, 20 October 2024 (UTC).
- Hello and welcome to DYK. Right now the hook does not meet the guidelines for a DYK hook as it's too long (we have a limit of 200 characters for most hooks, and ideally it should be less). In addition, it needs to largely focus on a hooky fact, whereas the current hook is essentially summarizing the article. Please prose a new hook so that the nomination can continue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Kowal2701: I've also checked the article and right now it's less than 1500 characters long. DYK requires a minimum of 1500 characters of prose to be accepted. If you can expand the article further so that it meets the guidelines then less us know, but if that is not feasible then unfortunately the nomination will have to be rejected. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:20, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
@User:Narutolovehinata5 the hook is 197 words long, and it gives context the fact which is that their grand claims were dismissed. I wouldn't say it summarises the article, just the last few sentences. I can expand it further, I think at the moment it's at 1200 words. Are you sure the hook isn't okay?
- Yes, the hook is far too long for DYK, even if it is slightly under the character limit. Perhaps another editor like Launchballer can give some advice on what makes a good hook, especially one that isn't too long. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @User:Narutolovehinata5 but surely if it's under the character limit then the length is okay?
- I’ve added alts, I think I know what you were getting at, that the initial hook had too much information in it and wouldn’t entice the reader to click on the article. I think ALT2 is okay? Kowal2701 (talk) 13:18, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, ALT2 would work. Since the original issues about length and hooks are now addressed this is ready for a full review. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:42, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, the hook is far too long for DYK, even if it is slightly under the character limit. Perhaps another editor like Launchballer can give some advice on what makes a good hook, especially one that isn't too long. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:50, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
Głos Kolejarzy Ewakuowanych — Golos Evakuirovannykh Zheleznodorozhnikov
- ... that an organ of evacuated Polish railway workers called for unity with All-Russian trade unions around the time of the 1917 October Revolution?
- Source: Ludwik Bazylow, Jan Sobczak. Encyklopedia Rewolucji Październikowej. Wiedza Powszechna, 1987. p. 118
Soman (talk) 12:08, 20 October 2024 (UTC).
- Date, size, hook, neutrality, refs, copyvio spotcheck, QPQ - all in green. GTG. I just wonder whether a more interesting hook could be found, hmmm, maybe one based on the SDKPiL quote? @Soman: --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:01, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Soman I agree that a more interesting hook would be preferred. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1 - "... that during World War I the organ of evacuated Polish railway workers in Moscow denounced the trade unions of the Warsaw–Vienna railway as 'separatists'? --Soman (talk) 00:41, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- Soman I agree that a more interesting hook would be preferred. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 22
editRevant Himatsingka
- ... that an Indian social media influencer's viral video on the sugar content of a children's "health drink" compelled its parent company to slash sugar by almost 15%?
- Source: "In addition, Bournvita reduced added sugar by a massive margin of 15% in their product." - https://www.freepressjournal.in/brandsutra/sweet-victory-of-a-one-man-army
"the brand has now reduced the quantity of added sugar by 14.4 percent.", "Previously, the Bournvita product contained 37.4 grams of added sugar per 100 grams of powder. The revised formula has a reduced sugar content of 32.2 grams per 100 grams." - https://www.indiatoday.in/trending-news/story/bournvita-reduces-added-sugar-content-after-backlash-influencer-calls-it-big-win-2480239-2023-12-25
"Cadbury reduced the quantity of added sugar in Bournvita by 14.4 percent in December 2023" - https://thebetterindia.com/350012/revant-himatsingka-food-pharmer-nutrition-ingredient-list-read-label-padhega-india-mumbai/
- Reviewed:
- Comment: I think this is quite an interesting feat on the part of the influencer that a viral video was able to get Cadbury to reduce added sugar in Bournvita (marketed as children's health drink in India) by almost 15%, even as they sent legal notices and filed lawsuits against him. Also, I am new to DYK, and not sure if the hook could be made better than this. Thanks!
—CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 20:22, 26 October 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review. Just noting that you could use this new infobox image for an image hook. Bremps... 07:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)
- Full review needed. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:12, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
National Gingerbread House Competition
... that due to the effects of Hurricane Helene, the National Gingerbread House Competition (pictured) has been canceled for the first time in history?
- Source: In the wake of Hurricane Helene, the Omni Grove Park Inn announced its 32nd annual National Gingerbread House competition. https://www.foxcarolina.com/2024/10/22/omni-grove-park-inn-cancels-national-gingerbread-house-competition/
- Reviewed:
Hkeely (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2024 (UTC).
- Hi Hkeely, welcome to DYK. Interesting article but it is currently below the 1,500 character minimum requirement (see WP:DYKLEN), can it be extended with more content? - Dumelow (talk) 20:20, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Dumelow, thank you. I have expanded the article with additional content so that it now surpasses the 1,500 character minimum requirement - Hkeely (talk) 04:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Hkeely. The length is now fine, article was created on time (22 October), sources used look to be reliable for the content and I found no issues with overly close paraphrasing, image is good (I trimmed the caption quite a bit). A couple of questions on sourcing:
- I couldn't see in the Fox Carolina source where it said this was the only time the event had been cancelled?
- Can you add a citation in the article for the last sentence of the first paragraph about the TV channels it has been broadcast on?
- Apart from that I think this is good to go - Dumelow (talk) 07:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Hkeely. The length is now fine, article was created on time (22 October), sources used look to be reliable for the content and I found no issues with overly close paraphrasing, image is good (I trimmed the caption quite a bit). A couple of questions on sourcing:
- Thanks Dumelow. Thank you for checking this and trimming the caption. I've added a citation for the TV channel coverage. The cancelation information is because the contest started in 1992 and this would have been the 32nd annual event. Since there were 31 events prior, that adds up mathematically. I did include new information about the public display portion being canceled during the Covid pandemic in 2020, though judging did continue that year. - Hkeely (talk) 17:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Hkeely, if the first event was held in 1992 and it was held every year then 2024 would have been the 33rd event. There are 32 years between the first and last event but 33 events (see fencepost error) - Dumelow (talk) 08:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 15:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Z1720: The competition hosts themselves say that the event started in 1992 and that 2024 would have been the 32nd annual competition. https://www.omnihotels.com/hotels/asheville-grove-park/things-to-do/national-gingerbread-competition I presume this is the case because the first year wasn't actually judged. Hkeely (talk) 19:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely and Z1720: Sorry for delay in replying. I am not sure that is enough for us to assume it is the first time, but happy if another reviewer thinks it is. Is there an alternative wording we can look at? - Dumelow (talk) 10:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely: Going purely off what's on this nom, the hook is not accurate and should be replaced.--Launchballer 13:04, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely and Z1720: Sorry for delay in replying. I am not sure that is enough for us to assume it is the first time, but happy if another reviewer thinks it is. Is there an alternative wording we can look at? - Dumelow (talk) 10:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Hkeely, if the first event was held in 1992 and it was held every year then 2024 would have been the 33rd event. There are 32 years between the first and last event but 33 events (see fencepost error) - Dumelow (talk) 08:28, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer, Dumelow, Z1720, and Hkeely: How about this?
- ALT1 ... that despite its name, the National Gingerbread House Competition (pictured) has featured gingerbread clock towers, ocean liners, and giant pandas?
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:48, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer, Dumelow, Z1720, and Narutolovehinata5: Great idea! I've updated the hook based on actual entries. Hkeely (talk) 16:05, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2: ... that despite its name, the National Gingerbread House Competition (pictured) has featured gingerbread merry-go-rounds, sea monsters, and even the Statue of Liberty?
- Hi all. Merry-go-rounds, sea monsters, and the Statue of Liberty proposed in (what I have labelled) ALT2 are not mentioned in the article. "clock towers, ocean liners, and giant pandas" are mentioned in the article but not the source cited there - Dumelow (talk) 18:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Hkeely: Just for clarification, you should not have replaced the original hook (ALT0) with the new one (ALT2), as this could cause confusion regarding the nomination history. I've restored the original hook to its place (albeit struck out to show that it is no longer under consideration), and moved ALT2 to later in the discussion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 23
editForeign policy of the Masoud Pezeshkian administration
- ... that Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian was the first Iranian president to visit Iraqi Kurdistan?
- ALT1: ... that Iranian President Masoud Pezeshkian was the first Iranian president to attend the 16th BRICS summit following its admission? Source: https://en.irna.ir/news/85637049/BRICS-summit-opens-in-Russia-s-Kazan-with-Iran-s-president-in
- Reviewed:
- Comment: First article. I think i've done it right. Just not sure which is the most catch title.
there is an image of him on his main page, maybe someone can add it it this?
Sportsnut24 (talk) 13:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC).
- Comment from NPP reviewer: Sportsnut24, you should properly format your references using Template:Cite web, instead of simply putting a URL between ref tags. I have left a maintenance template on the article and done one for you – simply follow this format for the others. Best, Toadspike [Talk] 11:25, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- I would also note that per the (now deprecated) supplementary guideline D3, that bare URLs should generally not be used for articles, especially when it gets nominated for DYK/GA/FA. JuniperChill (talk) 15:56, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's actually listed at the latest guidelines at WP:DYKCITE JuniperChill (talk) 15:58, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Sportsnut24: Did you resolve the above concern, and is this ready for a review? Z1720 (talk) 15:59, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @JuniperChill: WP:PRESSTV policy is itself based on a deprecated source. Ergo, there is no policy.Sportsnut24 (talk) 12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm confused with what your saying, or you got confused with what you said. While this isn't a full review, deprecated sources are almost never used in articles (Daily Mail is a notable example, and so is Press TV), and are likely not permitted for DYK and you even pointed it out to yourself. I suggest removing them. Another user will give a proper review. JuniperChill (talk) 18:56, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @JuniperChill: WP:PRESSTV policy is itself based on a deprecated source. Ergo, there is no policy.Sportsnut24 (talk) 12:25, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Let's make it clear I'm requesting a review from another user. JuniperChill (talk) 10:29, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Sportsnut24: Please address the above.--Launchballer 12:17, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- The nominator has not edited since the 24th and has not responded to the above concerns. Marking for closure, without prejudice against the nomination resuming if they return or the nom is adopted. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:34, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 24
editA Nail Clipper Romance
- ... that Ekin Cheng delivered his lines in his native Cantonese in the Mandarin-language film A Nail Clipper Romance?
- Source: [1]
- ALT1: ... that A Nail Clipper Romance is an extension of a 2010 short film of the same name which starred Zhou Xun? Source: [2]
- ALT2: ... that Zhou Dongyu learned to surf while filming A Nail Clipper Romance in Hawaii? Source: [3]
- ALT3: ... that Tiffany Ann Hsu made a cameo appearance in A Nail Clipper Romance at the invitation of lead actress Zhou Dongyu? Source: [4]
- ALT4: ... that A Nail Clipper Romance marks the directorial debut of cinematographer Jason Kwan? Source: [5]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/You Are Here (song)
Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 06:17, 24 October 2024 (UTC).
Sources
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- Comment: @Prince of Erebor: A few things stand out to me: the poor critical reception/box office performance? is played down in the lead section in a somewhat ingenious way, by emphasizing the positive reviews of the short film it is based upon. I think you should fix that as it presents a neutrality issue. In other words, summarize the reception in the lead, not the previous work. The other thing I noticed is that the article says the film took place in the state of Hawaii several times. While it’s fine to say that at least once, subsequent mention should specify it was filmed specifically on the island of Oahu in and around the city of Honolulu, if the sources can support that. There are also opportunities to link to specific articles about the Chinese population in Hawaii. Leaning towards ALT2 at the moment although I wonder if it can be made more interesting than it is with other details. More later. Viriditas (talk) 18:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Viriditas! Thanks a lot for taking up the review, but I beg to differ with both of your current suggestions. The "positive reviews" in the lead refer to the short film, which explains why a full-length feature was developed afterward, and this is supported by multiple sources. I do not find this description to be faulty. Meanwhile, I have not found any sources that comment on or summarize the critical reception and box office performance. From the current reviews listed, I do not believe it is conclusive that the film was poorly received, as some critics have given it 3.5/5 and expressed various positive opinions on the premise, themes, and performances. Regarding box office performance, it is also subjective to judge whether it is positive or negative, as arthouse films like this one typically gross less than blockbusters. I would summarize the box office performance as poor only if supported by multiple sources, like in Miss Shampoo or The Invincible Dragon. For your second suggestion, I have only mentioned the film being shot in Hawaii once in the filming section. The other mentions focus on different topics, like casting choices or creative decisions based on the demographics of Hawaiians. There are no specific references to the filming locations in Hawaii, so I cannot specify which part of Hawaii the film was shot in. I am also unsure if mentioning the specific location has any bearing on why the crew chose to film there or why Ekin Cheng was willing to join the project. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 18:40, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I think you might have misunderstood me. By emphasizing the positive review of a different film in the lead, and ignoring the poor critical reception (3.5 is pretty mediocre, and there are other poor reviews and apparently bad box office results) that presents a neutrality issue. You will want to very briefly note the critical reception of this film in the lead, regardless of the positive reception of the other film. As for Hawaii, there are eight islands in the state. The film industry is in Oahu, but not all films are shot there. Given what we know so far, this entire film was shot on Oahu in and around Honolulu. This should be easy to source. I’m sorry we disagree. Viriditas (talk) 18:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I believe we are on the same page. My point is that the characterization of the film's box office performance and critical reception as "poor" is not supported by sources and is purely subjective. I see this as a form of OR. But I understand your concerns, and perhaps it would be better to remove the mention of positive reviews for the short film from the lead instead? Regarding the filming location, could you please provide me with the source that confirms the film was shot in Oahu? I conducted a research quite thoroughly while writing the article and do not recall seeing this mentioned in any English or Chinese RS. Please let me know if I am mistaken or have overlooked any sources. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Let's take it one topic at a time; my old brain doesn't multitask as well as it should. First things first: can you briefly summarize the critical reception in the lead? Viriditas (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, my answer is no, because I do not see a conclusive consensus among the reviews. Summarizing the box office performance and a handful of critics' opinions subjectively and labeling the film as "poorly received" is a form of WP:SYNTH in my opinion. But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I think we might be speaking past each other. Is there any reason you cannot summarize the critical reception section you've written in the body of the article and add it to the lead, to the best of your ability? Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Perhaps you aren't aware of this, which would explain the back and forth. There's several ways to do it, but the most common involve characterizing the type of review in the first part of the sentence ("The film received mixed reviews from critics"), and then in the second part, describing the box office results ("and became a box office bomb"). These are just examples. Viriditas (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I believe we are still on the same page. I am aware that mixed reviews exist, I have used this term in another recent article of mine (Get the Hell Out). In that case, the inclusion was based on a cited Rotten Tomatoes score of 5.9, so it does not involve original research. Many film articles lack a summary of critical reception exactly because of WP:SYNTH. An example that come to mind is Deadpool and Wolverine, where editors voted not to include a critical reception summary in the lead due to concerns about SYNTH. There are also no sources indicating that the film failed at the box office. While it may not have grossed enough to make the list of top grossing films in 2017, that does not equate to it being a box office bomb, and I still see the assertion as a form of OR. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I think we might be speaking past each other. Is there any reason you cannot summarize the critical reception section you've written in the body of the article and add it to the lead, to the best of your ability? Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception? Perhaps you aren't aware of this, which would explain the back and forth. There's several ways to do it, but the most common involve characterizing the type of review in the first part of the sentence ("The film received mixed reviews from critics"), and then in the second part, describing the box office results ("and became a box office bomb"). These are just examples. Viriditas (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, my answer is no, because I do not see a conclusive consensus among the reviews. Summarizing the box office performance and a handful of critics' opinions subjectively and labeling the film as "poorly received" is a form of WP:SYNTH in my opinion. But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:25, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Let's take it one topic at a time; my old brain doesn't multitask as well as it should. First things first: can you briefly summarize the critical reception in the lead? Viriditas (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I believe we are on the same page. My point is that the characterization of the film's box office performance and critical reception as "poor" is not supported by sources and is purely subjective. I see this as a form of OR. But I understand your concerns, and perhaps it would be better to remove the mention of positive reviews for the short film from the lead instead? Regarding the filming location, could you please provide me with the source that confirms the film was shot in Oahu? I conducted a research quite thoroughly while writing the article and do not recall seeing this mentioned in any English or Chinese RS. Please let me know if I am mistaken or have overlooked any sources. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 19:05, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I think you might have misunderstood me. By emphasizing the positive review of a different film in the lead, and ignoring the poor critical reception (3.5 is pretty mediocre, and there are other poor reviews and apparently bad box office results) that presents a neutrality issue. You will want to very briefly note the critical reception of this film in the lead, regardless of the positive reception of the other film. As for Hawaii, there are eight islands in the state. The film industry is in Oahu, but not all films are shot there. Given what we know so far, this entire film was shot on Oahu in and around Honolulu. This should be easy to source. I’m sorry we disagree. Viriditas (talk) 18:46, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
I am sorry, but it appears that you are still misreading me. Please summarize the critical reception to the best of your ability (as I described above) and place it in the lead section. The specific decision and rationale not to include a critical reception section in Deadpool and Wolverine does not apply here. Further, that film received mostly positive reviews, so the dispute in that particular instance isn't really relevant. We know D&W received a positive, critical reception. One of the problems here is how accurate or inaccurate Metacritic scores are in this regard, and that led to the perception that D&W received a less than positive reception. That's really getting into the weeds, and there's no similar problem here. However, you could ask, did this film receive mostly positive reviews, did it receive mixed reviews, or did it receive poor reviews? Whatever your answer is, please briefly mention it in the lead. By describing a different film as "positive" and ignoring the critical reception in the lead, you are giving readers a false impression of what the reception was actually like. This is a problem. Viriditas (talk) 20:04, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, sorry but I believe you are also misreading me. I have already acknowledged your concern that the term "positive reviews" could mislead readers regarding the reception of this film, and I proposed removing the mention of the short film's reception. (
But if you find the phrase "positive reviews" in the lead to be misleading, I am fine with removing the mention of the short film's reception.
) This should have already addressed your concerns about neutrality or misleading information. The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now. Adding a summary (positive, mixed, negative, whatever) you are suggesting is purely original research and a synthesis of the sources. If there are no sources or review aggregators to support the claim that the article is generally viewed as positive, divisive, or negative by critics, then adding my own assessment of their opinions would be considered SYNTH. I am also somewhat puzzled by this conversation, as identifying OR should be WP editing 101 and my concerns about WP:V should be quite clear. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 20:35, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
The reason a summary was not included in the D&W article is the same rationale for why I am not adding one now
. No, it's actually quite different. It is not OR to summarize or to state the critical reception for this film in the lead and there's literally no connection to the arguments made in the D&W article, which received overwhelmingly positive reviews. This is why ignoring the critical reception in the lead for D&W is the default, as it received mostly positive, not negative feedback. I can assure you, if D&W had received a negative reception, the default would have been to mention that. By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception. Do you see how this works? The opposite is true here. You are free, of course, to do what you like, but priming the reader with mentioning a "positive" review of an altogether different film while ignoring the poor to mediocre, to mixed reviews (and box office performance) of this film is a neutrality issue. I'm once again sorry that we see this so differently. Perhaps you will find others to agree with your position. Viriditas (talk) 20:42, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I must respectfully disagree with you. The editors who participated in the survey for the D&W article specifically discussed issues related to synthesis. While the film may seem
overwhelmingly positive
to you, there are also negative reviews out there. In fact, all four wording options discussed in that survey addressed the non-positive, divisive reviews.By not mentioning it in D&W, the reader is not given information about negative reception.
The current critical response section also included negative reviews from like San Francisco Chronicle, The Hollywood Reporter, and one-star review from The Irish Times. So no, that is not the case. It is because reviews from an opposite stance exist, a positive/mixed reception summary would not be appropriate. This echoes my point that adding a subjective summary suggesting that the film underperformed based on what you and I think, constitutes original research. I have also repeatedly acknowledged your concern that the positive reception of the short film in the lead is misleading and have offered to remove that line. (I have rephrased it just now and I hope this address your concerns.) So I do not really see a reason to continue adding a summary of the reception and box office performance. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 20:54, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- That's definitely an improvement, but I do want to say that I see zero relationship between the argument made in the D&W discussion, which defaults to the absence of negative critical commentary in the lead based on all of the available evidence, as well as an indication that the critical reception was first and foremost controversial, and this article, which did not receive a positive reception and where the critical reception was not controversial. There's literally no comparison. I get that you are making this comparison, but it doesn't exist, IMO. Now, if you think the critical reception of this film was controversial, I am happy to review the matter, and if true, that is indeed, a supporting argument for keeping it out of the lead. But as far as I can tell, the critics and the audiences didn't like this film and it performed poorly at the box office. By keeping this out of the lead, it gives the impression of a neutrality problem. Now, with all that said, the question becomes, does it need to be in the lead? Aside from obvious controversies where representing the critical reception is difficult or disputed (i.e. D&W), I would say yes, but with the additional caveat that local consensus, as we've seen with D&W, can override this, particularly in instances where the default position doesn't deviate from the overall reception. It might help to get clarification from the film project talk page on this. They are usually pretty active, even during the holidays. The NPOV noticeboard might even be a better place, I don't know. However, keeping it out of the lead does not appear neutral to me at all. More so, if the sources emphasize that the film was received poorly with critics and the box office. So we are still divided on this subtopic. I would prefer to work towards an agreement on this with you, but I don't think that's going to happen. One other thing: have you added critical reception to the lead before in your other film articles that notes a poor, mediocre, or mixed reception status? If so, what makes this article different than the others? If not, why not? Your careful reasoning and answer to those two questions could conceivably bring me over to your side, leading me to drop this. Viriditas (talk) 21:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas , sorry, but I still only see you asserting that critics and audiences didn't like this film and that it performed poorly at the box office. Based on what is currently in the article, there are at least some positive to mediocre reviews, and the total gross exceeds the film's budget. It is hardly accurate to describe it as having a negative reception or being a box office bomb. Labeling the film in this way is just your subjective judgement based on what you have seen about the film and it truly harms the article's neutrality. While if the reception is mixed and the box office performance is merely average, whether or not to mention these is unrelated to neutrality and I do not see the urge to add such phrases. I am generally open to adding or removing content from articles, like I would be happy to include the precise filming locations you mentioned if sources are available, but this just seems like original research to me. I also do not see the necessity to escalate this, as again, I think this is WP editing 101. But I would not object to seeking a third opinion.
- Regarding your final question, yes, I certainly do. Examples include positive reviews for Mongrel (2024 film), mixed reviews for Get the Hell Out, and negative reviews for The Invincible Dragon. My rationale for adding a summary is based on the existence of a conclusive consensus among critics' opinions. For these articles, there are Rotten Tomatoes scores, which aggregate all critical reviews and can be interpreted as the consensus of the majority of critics. There are exceptions, like 18×2 Beyond Youthful Days, where multiple reputable sources describe the film as both a box office and critical success. But in this case, there is neither a consensus summarized by review aggregators nor multiple reliable sources. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 21:52, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Was this film a box office success or a box office bomb? In other words, did it break even by a large amount? When you look at the budget and compare it to the raw, unadjusted revenue, it looks like the film made US $34,000 dollars. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong? Also, your own source says it did poorly at the box office and implies it lost money because in that market romantic films do poorly. We're still not on the same page. I have not fully analyzed the critical reviews just yet so I'm keeping that separate until later. But it appears that in terms of the box office, the sources say it did not do well. Viriditas (talk) 22:18, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: Yes, you have read things wrong. The film had a budget of USD$386,000 (HKD$3 million) excluding government funding, and grossed approximately USD$620,000 (RMB$4.49 million). I would not classify it as a box office success, and I am not well-versed in the film industry and cannot determine how much profit or loss the production company made based on these figures. However, it is common sense that a gross greater than the budget would not typically qualify as a box office bomb. Regarding the translated source, it refers to Zhou Dongyu's other film The Breaking Ice (燃冬), not this one (A Nail Clipper Romance; 指甲刀人魔). I am the one who added that source so of course I know what was written there... I have found no sources indicating that this film was a "box office failure". Please share any you might find. To be honest, I am starting to find this discussion somewhat pointless, as neither of us seems able to convince the other. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 22:31, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- This article (and your source) currently says the budget was HKD$4.9 million (US 629,714) which would give it a gross profit of $34k. Take at look at the article you wrote. Viriditas (talk) 22:41, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- 4.9 million including government funding, 3 million excluding. Do you really think I do not know what I typed in the article??
- Okay Viriditas, let me be clear. I believe your request to add a subjective summary labeling the film as poorly received and a box office failure constitutes blatant original research and violates WP:V. Your concerns about WP:NPOV have already been addressed with the removal of the short film's reception (which was actually sourced) from the lead. Even if a summary were included, it would only reflect "mixed reviews" and "average box office performance", which does not relate to your concerns about misleading or sugarcoating the film's actual reception. Since not adding a summary would no longer have anything to do with WP:NPOV, but adding one could impact both verifiability and neutrality imo, I refuse to include these policy-violating claims in the article. So we can either continue the review and set this issue aside, as your concerns have been adequately addressed, or you may choose to seek a third opinion, though I believe that is totally unnecessary. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 22:55, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, I must respectfully disagree with you. The editors who participated in the survey for the D&W article specifically discussed issues related to synthesis. While the film may seem
I don’t know why you think summarizing the critical reception in the lead is a policy violation. That is an extremely unusual idea. Last comment to address the previous ones I ignored: "If a film released in theatres fails to break even by a large amount, it is considered a box-office bomb." List of biggest box-office bombs lists dozens of films that made more than their budget. That is neither here nor there. To address your previous point, you said I was citing material about a different film, but looking at it again after your criticism, it appears to be referring to this film. Here’s the material I was referring to: 和关智斌、张孝全等人主演的《指甲刀人魔》票房449.9万元。事实证明,演员能不能扛票房真的不好说,有运气和选剧本的能力左右,比如吴京主演的《巨齿鲨2》票房不如第一部,还有沈腾演出的《超能一家人》票房才3亿多,所以没有演员敢拍着胸膛说自己主演的电影票房一定大卖。当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影,其实制作成本可能也不是很高,但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片,所以她的票房都不怎么样,爱情片的票房本身就不是很高,特别偏文艺片的电影。If that means something else, let me know. My reading of this (当然周冬雨主演票房很低的电影,其实制作成本可能也不是很高,但绝对都亏损。周冬雨很少演出商业大片,所以她的票房都不怎么样,爱情片的票房本身就不是很高,特别偏文艺片的电影) is that it is referring to both films. Also, throughout this discussion you have insisted that I have wanted to add a qualitative statement to the lead, but you ignored the original question mark in my initial comment, identifying that I don’t know what that statement should actually be. I’ve tried to explain this to you, but you keep repeating the same thing for some odd reason. The questions remain: "how did critics receive this film and how well did it do at the box office?" As the reader, I wanted to know the answer. When I read the lead, I expected to find out, only to discover than an altogether different film received a positive reception, not this one. That is my last and final comment on this matter. Viriditas (talk) 23:15, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, yes, I have already mentioned that the source did not address this. The source lists the box office grosses of Zhou Dongyu's entire filmography, ranging from A Fangirl's Romance at USD 329,000 to Embrace Again at USD 129 million. Even if you are viewing it through Google Translate, you can still see the listings and it is separated into different paragraphs. So the statements you quoted obviously do not refer to A Nail Clipper Romance, otherwise the $129 million gross would also become a box office failure. And no, I did not ignore your statements. I have repeatedly mentioned that mixed reviews fall under SYNTH as well, but you have repeatedly focused on the poor reception you perceive in your replies, which is why I feel the need to address it more often than the other potential stances. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 23:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I said I wasn't going to revisit the above, so I won't. The problem of synth in regards to critical reception in lead sections was a specific, local consensus problem for D&W, not for other film articles. This was because of the unique set of circumstances regarding the sources. This was made clear in the responses by the participants. You are extrapolating the result of an article content page RFC out to all film leads. That's not how an article-specific RFC works at all. See WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. It may be wise to get some input from the larger film community over at their project page. Viriditas (talk) 23:59, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Addendum or coda: Derek Elley: "The film was shot back in late 2014 on Oahu island, around Honolulu. The Chinese title literally means “The Nail-Cutter Human Devil”. In the Mainland the film crashed and burned, grossing a tiny RMB4.5 million."[10] Viriditas (talk) 00:08, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, this will be my final response on this issue as well, as I do not find this conversation progressing in a meaningful way. The reason I mentioned D&W is that you brought up "other articles".
Just in case you don't know, we summarize "mixed reviews" in the lead all the time. Maybe check out other articles with similar reception?
Therefore, I raised another article that also has a divisive reception and involved thorough discussions among editors regarding the decision to omit the reception summary, that aligns with the rationale I am proposing here. My intention was to provide a noteworthy example, one that is more high-traffic and has a relatively large number of participants in the RFC, to ensure we are on the same page and that the summary is not left out for other reasons or merely reflecting the consensus of a handful of random editors. Of course, I understand if you view the concerns raised by the editors in that RFC as specific to that article and reflective of a mere local consensus, as context always matters. I only hope this gives you a clearer picture of my and at least some editors' perspectives about the potential SYNTHiness in the lead reception summary. D&W is just an example, synthesis is my main point, and I have explained my rationale on adding these summaries as well. Perhaps we have different interpretations of the definition of OR, which is perfectly fine, as editors often have varying views on WP guidelines. I have already offered to remove the potentially NPOV-violating weasel words that has disturbed you multiple times (since my second reply), in hopes of truly addressing the issues. However, you have ignored this and instead continue to push for the addition of a summary that you deem necessary, without fully addressing why you believe SYNTH does not apply to the reception summary in this case, convincing me that the poor reception is supported by RS rather than personal opinions, or providing a new rationale after the NPOV concerns have been addressed. Therefore, as I said, while I would not object to seeking a third opinion to move this review forward, I still find it unnecessary because, to me, this is a clear case of SYNTH, and I do not find it beneficial to continue wasting time on it. - Regarding the source, Sino-Cinema.com appeared to be a WP:RSPWORDPRESS blog to me. But upon checking the author, I would not object that Derek Elley may be considered a SME due to his career at Variety, and the filming locations are not controversial claims that would require the best, reputable sources, so I will treat this as a SPS. It is a nice addition, as it even details the filming period as late 2014, while the Screen Daily source only vaguely suggested the timeframe. I have added it to the article. Thanks for your finding!! —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 04:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Viriditas, this will be my final response on this issue as well, as I do not find this conversation progressing in a meaningful way. The reason I mentioned D&W is that you brought up "other articles".
Second opinion requested. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 11:28, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 25
editBoxheim Documents
- ... that in 1931, Werner Best drafted for the Nazi Party the plans for a coup?
- Source: Press and Politics in the Weimar Republic. OUP Oxford. pp. 186–187.
- ALT1: ... that under a Nazi plan for a coup, Jews were to be deprived of food rations? Source: https://www.jta.org/archive/jews-to-be-starved-out-if-hitlerists-come-to-power-boxheim-documents-were-authentic-official-statem
- ALT2: ... that a Nazi plan for a coup involved the abolishment of private income, food confiscations and mandatory labour? Source: Press and Politics in the Weimar Republic. OUP Oxford. pp. 186–187.
- Reviewed:
Jean Po (talk) 15:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC).
- The article was made on the 25th, so is new enough. At many times the required length, it is long enough. The article reads neutrally and properly uses in-line citations. The copyvio detector finds nothing outside of explicit quotes in the article. Both hooks are interesting and cited in-line and utilized properly from the listed sources. The suggested image is in the public domain and visibly identifiable. No QPQ needs to be done. Looks good to go! SilverserenC 01:20, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jean Po, Silver seren, and Crisco 1492: I have pulled this hook on interestingness grounds. There is nothing whatsoever unusual about Nazis treating Jews poorly.--Launchballer 21:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, what about the original hook? I think that the Nazis were planning a full out coup, rather than their (admitted coerced through other events) political victory later, is interesting, particularly the effects that had at the time of the reveal of this plan. SilverserenC 22:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- No comment on interestingness, but I have tagged uncited material in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jean Po: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Citations added. --Jean Po (talk) 17:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Jean Po: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:25, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- No comment on interestingness, but I have tagged uncited material in the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 16:17, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, what about the original hook? I think that the Nazis were planning a full out coup, rather than their (admitted coerced through other events) political victory later, is interesting, particularly the effects that had at the time of the reveal of this plan. SilverserenC 22:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Jean Po, Silver seren, and Crisco 1492: I have pulled this hook on interestingness grounds. There is nothing whatsoever unusual about Nazis treating Jews poorly.--Launchballer 21:46, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 28
editGilopez Kabayao
- ... that violinist Gilopez Kabayao was the first Filipino to perform at New York's Carnegie Hall in 1950?
- Source: "As the first Filipino violinist to perform at the prestigious Carnegie Hall in New York in 1950, Gilopez Kabayao broke new ground and brought pride to the nation." —Philippine Daily Inquirer / Inquirer.net; "He performed in prestigious venues, including Carnegie Hall in New York in 1950, making him the first Filipino violinist to do so." —SunStar
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anatolii Brezvin
- Comment: Many sources state that Kabayao's Carnegie Hall performance in 1950 was done when he was 19 years old, but this is impossible if he was born in 1929 so I omitted this from the article and therefore the hook. This error might affect the hook under WP:EXCEPTIONAL and especially since a different source (Manila Bulletin) says, "Kabayao is widely believed to be the first Filipino to play at the prestigious Carnegie Hall in New York City".
seav (talk) 23:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- Considering the exceptional claim of him being the first, and thus the related uncertainty, maybe we could go with a different hook angle here. How about:
- ALT1 ... that Filipino violinist Gilopez Kabayao was nicknamed the "Mozart to the Barrios"?
- No opinion on the state of the article itself, although admittedly it is rather lacking in hooky material. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Article was new and long enough for DYK at the time of nomination. The opening paragraph reads a little puffy to me, with the nicknames and the virtuoso quote, especially since we don't say who gave him all these impressive sounding nicknames (ie, the press in general through his career? One guy one time and it stuck?). Is there a way to tone it down a bit, perhaps by giving them some context - he was given those names because he went to unusual places to play, and that's not even mentioned in the article. Otherwise, no concerns about CV, all similar phrases are basic facts or proper nouns. No other policy concerns. NLH's suggested hook is present and referenced and reasonably interesting. No QPQ required, no other concerns. Pinging Seav to advise. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Chromakopia
- ... that the physical version of Chromakopia contains an extra song?
- Reviewed:
MontanaMako (talk) 21:50, 30 October 2024 (UTC).
- Would suggest that new hooks be proposed. The current hook is unlikely to be perceived as interesting by non-specialist readers, as it lacks context regarding the subject and in particular why a reader should be interested in it. Plus, digital and physical versions being different is not unheard of anyway, so it's not even that unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5; just added a new one. Is it any better? MontanaMako (talk) 16:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Will leave the decision to another reviewer, but it's better than the original. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 18:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Please respond to the above. Z1720 (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
New reviewer needed. Z1720 (talk) 15:08, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- @MontanaMako: Page is new enough and long enugh, nominator QPQ exempt, hook fact checks out. I can't approve yet, as I need a citation on
Music critics characterized Chromakopia as an early midlife crisis album revolving around the concerns young adults have over their newfound adulthood. Its protagonist, St. Chroma, is introduced on the opening track of the same name.
ALT1 is the only way this gets done possibly with a different wording (as an option): Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:44, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1a: ... that trucks in Tyler promoted Tyler's latest album?
- Placing a DYK? icon to indicate that a review has been done. Flibirigit (talk) 06:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 30
editKarl Thielscher
- ... that within a year of playing in the NFL for the Buffalo All-Americans, Karl Thielscher was an NFL official for All-Americans games?
- Source: played in 1920 - officiated in 1921
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anthony F. Ciampi
- Comment: QPQ to be done within 24 hours.
BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:55, 6 November 2024 (UTC).
- Starting review. Updates to follow. Ktin (talk) 16:59, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Article meets eligibility criteria. Was promoted to GA and nominated within 10 days of the promotion. Strange that no one has picked up this review for over 30 days. All good there, nevertheless. Adequately sourced. No issues with tone or neutrality. Earwig shows no issues with copyvio. QPQ done.
Re: the hook, it seems like the interestingness stems from the fact that a player turned officiator (umpire / referee) within a year of retirement, albeit in this case as a backfill for an injured officiator. That said, I want to check if we can identify any other interesting hook. Happy to go with the current one if the nominator believes that this is a sufficiently uncommon occurrence and hence is interesting.
Re: the usage of the hook, the article needs to be updated to include the hook's content directly in the article. Can easily be done by updating the sentence in the article. Once done please include the source at the end of that sentence(s).
The source for the hook is a synthesis of two sources, one showing the retirement from a database and the officiating story from a newspaper archive. Which is perfectly alright. Please include as noted in the above paragraph.
Returning back to the nominator. Ktin (talk) 17:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC) Ktin (talk) 17:17, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Ktin and BeanieFan11: I was about to suggest the following:
- ALT1 ... that former player Karl Thielscher was thrust into becoming a referee for the American Professional Football Association when one of the regular referees was injured? (Note: I tried including the "within a year of retiring" aspect, but doing so put it above the 200 character limit)
- However, it seems to contradict the article. The article suggests that he was already a referee a month after retiring, meaning he was already had refereeing experience when the injury backfill happened. In which case, maybe the following would work better for clarity purposes?
- ALT2 ... that Karl Thielscher began refereeing American football games less than a month after retiring from playing the sport professionally?
- The issue I think is that the mention of "All-American" and the relevant context in the original hook may be confusing to a non-American football fan, even though the bones of a good hook fact are there. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on October 31
editGifted (2022 novella)
- ... that in 2022, all five book nominations for the Akutagawa Prize were written by women, including former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki, who wrote Gifted after her own experiences?
- Source: (Translated from Japanese to English)
Suzuki Suzumi, whose book "Gifted" (Bungeishunju) was nominated for the 167th Akutagawa Prize, says that while her unexpected background has attracted attention, it has also led to prejudice and labelling.
For the first time in history, only female writers have been nominated for the 167th Akutagawa Prize, which will be announced on July 20th. Among them, Suzuki Suzumi, who was nominated for "Gifted," made her AV debut while studying at Keio University. After that, she worked for a newspaper company and graduated from the University of Tokyo, and is now active as a writer and columnist, which has attracted attention for her unusual career.
Source: Oricon News (https://www.oricon.co.jp/special/59840/)- ALT1: ... that former adult film actress Suzumi Suzuki pivoted to writing literature in 2022 with her novel, Gifted, which became one of five books nominated for the Akutagawa Prize that year? Source: Same as first source
- Reviewed:
Phibeatrice (talk) 00:51, 4 November 2024 (UTC).
- If anything, the fact that the writer of the novel is a former adult film actress is the interesting part here, not the award (which not all readers may recognize, even if it's prestigious). Suggesting a far simpler hook:
- ALT3 ... that the 2022 novel Gifted was written by a former adult film actress?
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:51, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- Interesting to whom? I much prefer the longer hooks which give more information. "former actress writes book" is not very interesting. "former actress writes book nominated for major prize" has more to offer. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 19:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT4 ... that former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki's book Gifted was nominated for the Akutagawa Prize in 2022? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Mary Mark Ockerbloom: WP:DYKTRIM is the relevant guideline. Oftentimes, but not always, the shortest and simplest hooks are the best. There are times when hooks do need additional context, but generally speaking, we tend to target the widest audience possible with hooks that require the least amount of specialist information. The issue I have with the prize angle is that readers may not know that it is a prestigious award or even be familiar with it, making the angle less accessible. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Presumably then, they will have an added incentive to click through and find out. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:37, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT4 ... that former Japanese adult actress Suzumi Suzuki's book Gifted was nominated for the Akutagawa Prize in 2022? Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
Numerous ALT hooks have been proposed: a reviewer is needed to ensure that they and this article are approved. Z1720 (talk) 15:12, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Details Cannot Body Wants
- ... that Singapore's first R-rated play was performed despite the police finding it "offensive"?
- Reviewed:
- Comment: The article mentions the Public Entertainment Licensing Unit, which is part of the Singapore Police Force. Source: https://www.police.gov.sg/e-Services/Police-Licences/Public-Entertainment-Licence
Imbluey2. Please ping me so that I get notified of your response 06:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: @Imbluey2: Article is new enough. Hook is interesting. I made a few minor copyedits to the article. The article doesn't actually say anything about how the police were involved, so that should be added. The reader will be looking for the police connection. Also, the copyvio detector is at violation possible 49.5% with one of the sources, so some of the stuff highlighted in red there will need to be revised first. Just one more minor thing, I don't think Singapore needs to be bolded in the hook. I think it looks better as "that Singapore's first R-rated play was performed despite the police finding it "offensive"?" Nice work on the article! ~WikiOriginal-9~ (talk) 21:00, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Zhu Baosan
- ... that the fortune left by Zhu Baosan (pictured) was reported to have been greatly diminished by his philanthropic activities?
- Source: "The Mourning Ceremonies for Mr. Chu Pao-san". The North-China Herald. 6 November 1926. p. 257. "Although Mr. Chu Pao-san was a successful merchant and had such numerous business interests, friends believe that he left only a small fortune, as his contributions to charity were so large."
- ALT1: ... that the business interests of Zhu Baosan (pictured) ranged from banking and insurance to shipping and coal mining? Source: "The Mourning Ceremonies for Mr. Chu Pao-san". The North-China Herald. 6 November 1926. p. 257. "He promoted the Commercial’ Bank of China, the Ningpo Commercial Bank, the Chekiang Industrial Bank and the Chung Hua Commercial. and Savings Bank. He was an organizer of the Wah An Fire and Marine Insurance Company, the Wah Sing Insurance Company, and the China United Assurance Society. He was a director of the Liu Kiang and Chang Hsin Mining Companies. He was interested in the Nantao Tramway Company, the Tinghai Electric [Construction “Company” and the Chousan Electric Company. He was a director of the Chousan Steam Navigation Company, the Yung An Steamship Company, the Yung Leo Shipping Company, 'the Chang Ko Navigation Company, the Ta Tah Navigation Company and in several other shipping interests. He was a prominent shareholder in many cotton and flour mills, pap factories and other industrial enterprises."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Flag of Falcón state (1 of 2)
— Chris Woodrich (talk) 22:58, 31 October 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing: - Close, but not quite. The cited North-China Herald article states, "his friends believe that he left only a small fortune", whereas the Wikipedia article states, "The North-China Herald wrote that, because of the extent of his philanthropic activities, his assets were greatly depleted and he only left a 'small fortune'." Because the source text attributes the "small fortune" perception to Zhu's friends, the article text should also attribute the claim to Zhu's friends instead of solely to the North-China Herald. A minor change to the text of the article would resolve this discrepancy; no change to the hook is needed.
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: This review focuses on ALT0. Although ALT1 would pass, I find ALT0 to be more interesting because having business interests in multiple industries is not something I consider uncommon.
I have a couple of suggestions for the article that are unrelated to the nomination:
- The sentence "As discussions were ongoing to ban prostitution in Shanghai in 1920, Zhu wrote the Municipal Council to advocate for active campaigns" could be more clear about Zhu's position on prostitution. The cited China Philanthropy Times article states that Zhu petitioned for "an active campaign to ban prostitution", which should ideally be stated more explicitly in the article text.
- Grammatical variants of the word establish are used in the article eight times. Perhaps replacing some of those words with synonyms would improve the word variation.
Overall, good work on the article. Thanks for contributing this well-researched piece to Wikipedia. — Newslinger talk 03:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Newslinger, I believe I've addressed your concerns in the article. I also offer ALT0a: ... that the fortune left by Zhu Baosan (pictured) was believed to have been greatly diminished by his philanthropic activities?. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 11:08, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 1
editMuseiliha inscription
- ... that the Museiliha inscription, a boundary marker from the first century AD, hints at a Roman legal judgment setting boundaries between ancient Caesarea-ad-Libanum and Gigarta?
- Source: de Ruggiero 1893, p. 443.
Louvre Museum, 2024
- ALT1: ... that the Museiliha inscription, a boundary marker from the first century AD, helped delineate ancient territories between the citizens of Caesarea-ad-Libanum and the Gigartans? Source: Renan 1864, p. 149.
Mommsen, Hirschfeld & Domaszewski 1873, p. 31, insc. 183.
Louvre Museum, 2024 - ALT2: ... that the Museiliha inscription, a boundary marker from the first century AD, is considered a rare ancient example of a documented border dispute? Source: de Ruggiero 1893, p. 443.
Louvre Museum, 2024 - ALT3: ... that the Museiliha inscription, a boundary marker from the first century AD, includes carefully erased names, likely of Roman officials? Source: Mancini 1884, pp. 71–72.
Louvre Museum, 2024 - Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Abu Sulayman Da'ud
el.ziade (talkallam) 10:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC).
- Reviewing... Flibirigit (talk) 14:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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|
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - ?
- Interesting:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: The article was created on November 1, and nominated for DYK on November 6. Length and sourcing are adequate. The article is neutral in tone, and I found no plagiarism concerns. All of the proposed hooks are reasonably interesting to a broad audience. ALT0 states "Roman legal judgment", but I cannot locate the word Roman anywhere in the "Discovery history and interpretation" section. ALT1 is confusing because a boundary marking would deliniate the line between territories rather than citizens. I cannot locate the text nor citation for ALT2 anywhere in the article. ALT3 implies" likely of Roman officials", but I cannot find this wording anywhere in the article to verifty the citation. No images are used in the article, and the QPQ requirement is complete. Flibirigit (talk) 14:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Tel al-Sultan attack
- ... that American missiles were used to bomb a displacement camp in Rafah?
- Reviewed:
Personisinsterest (talk) 12:25, 1 November 2024 (UTC).
- I'd like to propose some alternative hooks, if that's okay:
- ALT1: ... that the "Kuwaiti Peace" tent camp, struck by Israeli fighter jets, was located only 200 meters from the largest UNRWA humanitarian aid storage warehouse in the Gaza Strip? Source: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hamas-rockets-central-israel-gaza-strip-sirens/
- ALT2:... that a viral image showing tents in Rafah arranged to spell "All Eyes on Rafah" called for global attention to the humanitarian crisis following the Tel al-Sultan attack? Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/29/world/middleeast/all-eyes-on-rafah.html
- ALT3: ... that the Tel al-Sultan attack was the deadliest incident of the Rafah offensive? Source: https://www.axios.com/2024/05/27/rafah-tent-camp-strike-biden-israel-red-line
Articles created/expanded on November 2
editNaz Arıcı
* ... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı started ice skating from scratch at the age of 29?
- Source: "İkiz gibi büyüdüğü arkadaşı ölünce kararını verdi! 29 yaşında başladı, 5 kez şampiyon oldu", "29 yaşında sıfırdan başladığı buz pateninde 32 yaşında yetişkinler artistik buz pateni dünya şampiyonu oldu." [11]
- ALT1: ... that electrical/electronics engineer Naz Arıcı quit her profession at the age of 34 to devote herself to competitions of adult figure skating she started when she was 29? Source: "... Naz Arıcı,“İlk şampiyonluğumdan sonra 2016 da katılacağım yarışma için işimi bıraktım ..." [12]", "29 yaşında sıfırdan başladığı buz pateninde 32 yaşında yetişkinler artistik buz pateni dünya şampiyonu oldu." [13]
- ALT2: ... that Naz Arıcı paved the way to the establishment of the adult figure skating branch in Turkey in 2016? Source: " Yetişkinler dalını 2015 yılında dünyada aldığı ilk şampiyonlukla (15 ülkeden 38 kişinin katıldığı Naz’ın ilk yarışması) Türkiye’ye getirdi ve 2016 yılında ülkemize yeni bir dalın açılmasını sağladı." [14]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Arthur France
CeeGee 11:43, 7 November 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral: - n
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - AGF
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
- Interesting:
- Other problems: - n
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: I was excited to see this bio at DYK, since I work on figure skating articles, too, and I value creating and improving fs articles, especially ones about women skaters. Such a beautiful story about adult figure skating in Turkey. However and unfortunately, I don't think that this bio is ready for the main page. The bio uses, for example, overly promotional and puffery language, such as most of the third paragraph in the "Early life" section. Much of the prose also suffers from awkward wording in English as well. The hooks for this DYK suffers from similar issues; all hooks are worded awkwardly. It's awkward in English, for example, to state that one starts something from scratch. Rather, it should read something like this: ALT3:... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı, with no previous experience, first learned how to figure skate the age of 29? Since I don't know Turkish and depend entirely on Google Translate, I'm AGF that the sources are accurately cited and worded and that there's no plagiarism. I think that if you worked on the article's prose, improving the hooks would be an easy fix. Please understand that I'm not being disrespectful, but I'm coming from a place of valuing the sport of figure skating on WP. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks a lot for your review and comment. I copyedited the article a little and replaced the original hook with following:CeeGee 05:57, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT3: ... that several-times international champion adult figure skater Naz Arıcı, with no previous experience, first learned how to figure skate at the age of 29?
Eastern Venus
- ... that on the ship Eastern Venus (pictured), the "Modern" suite is not in modern style?
- Reviewed:
UserMemer (chat) Tribs 21:03, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- A fairly interesting and well-written article that is both new and long enough. However, I have serious reservations about its sourcing. photoguide.jp or scheepvaartwest.be or cruisewonderland.tiyogami don't strike me as the most reliable, and this article is wholly dependent on such sources. KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:51, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I have removed the aforementioned self-published sources and found better citations; all unsupported claims were removed. In addition, I removed "Castles of the Seas" as it is obviously self-published too. UserMemer (chat) Tribs 22:29, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 3
editMoe's Books
- ... that in 2016, two thieves stole a van filled with $350,000 worth of rare books in Oakland, California, and tried to sell first editions of William Faulkner and Cormac McCarthy to Moe's Books nearby?
- Source: He’s been in the book dealing business for more than 15 years, but Lawrence Van De Carr said he’d never come across such a jewel of a title: a mint copy of Isaac Asimov’s 1950 classic “I, Robot” valued at $8,500.
That novel, once a prized possession of Van De Carr’s, is now gone, along with around 400 of his other books worth well over $350,000. Someone stole his van while it was parked outside a friend’s Oakland home this week.
Joshua Anderson, 30, went to Moe’s Books in Berkeley shortly after the bookseller’ association sent out an alert. He and an alleged accomplice had four books, valued around $14,000, that they were trying to sell, said John Wong, manager at the store.
Among the classic first-editions they were trying to deal were “A Hornbook for Witches: Poems of Fantasy” by Leah Bodine Drake, one of only 563 known copies; “No Country for Old Men” by McCarthy, “Always Comes Evening” by Robert E. Howard, and “Pylon” by William Faulkner.
Source: SFGate (https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Van-filled-with-350-000-rare-books-stolen-in-6843521.php)- Reviewed:
Phibeatrice (talk) 23:41, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- I'll review this. Thriley (talk) 18:18, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
2023 European Athletics Indoor Championships – Women's 400 metres
- ... that Femke Bol won the women's 400 metres at the 2023 European Athletics Indoor Championships (final pictured) with her third 400 metres indoor race under 50 seconds of 2023?
- Source: "1 49.26 Femke BOL 23 FEB 2000 NED 1 Omnisport, Apeldoorn (NED) (i) 19 FEB 2023 1269" / "3 49.85 Femke BOL 23 FEB 2000 NED 1 Ataköy Arena, Istanbul (TUR) (i) 04 MAR 2023 1245" / "4 49.96 Femke BOL 23 FEB 2000 NED 1f3 L'Anneau-Halle d'athlétisme de Metz, Metz (FRA) (i) 11 FEB 2023 1240" (link)
Editør (talk) 11:14, 3 November 2024 (UTC).
- ALT1 ... that Femke Bol won the women's 400 metres at the 2023 European Athletics Indoor Championships (final pictured) successfully defending her 400 metres indoor title from 2021?
Source: "While Warholm likes to inflict his damage over the opening 200m, Bol’s trademark is tearing her rivals to shreds over the latter half. That was again the case here, the defending champion opening broad daylight between her and her rivals down the back straight and looking magnificently majestic as she strode to the finish in 49.85, with Klaver winning silver in 50.57 and Poland’s Anna Kielbasinska taking bronze in 51.25." (link)
– Editør (talk) 10:59, 20 November 2024 (UTC)- This DYK may be scheduled during the 2025 European Athletics Indoor Championships, with round 1 for this event on 7 March 2025. – Editør (talk) 15:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Editør: Given how that the date is way beyond the six-week limit for special occasion requests, it is very unlikely the request will be granted. You could request a special occasion request at WT:DYK, but given things like WP:DYKTIMEOUT and the fact that it's several months away from now, more likely the nomination will have to run as a regular hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your reply. I don't mind either way. I came up with the suggestion when I noticed the review was taking a while, not realizing there was a time limit. – Editør (talk) 10:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Editør: Given how that the date is way beyond the six-week limit for special occasion requests, it is very unlikely the request will be granted. You could request a special occasion request at WT:DYK, but given things like WP:DYKTIMEOUT and the fact that it's several months away from now, more likely the nomination will have to run as a regular hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- This DYK may be scheduled during the 2025 European Athletics Indoor Championships, with round 1 for this event on 7 March 2025. – Editør (talk) 15:25, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 4
editPeanut (squirrel)
- ... that a squirrel once helped its owner's OnlyFans account make $800,000 in a month? Source: https://telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/11/07/pnut-squirrel-became-harbinger-donald-trump-return/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Moses da Rieti
- Comment: Drive-by nom, this was way too good a hook to pass up. I'll clean this up in the morning.
Launchballer 22:08, 4 November 2024 (UTC).
- Note to the reviewer: the article is currently on the Recent deaths section of ITN, but as the disqualification only applies to bolded links in blurbs and not to RD entries, the article remains eligible for DYK. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:16, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT1... that the death of a squirrel named Peanut was a Republican rallying cry in the last days before the 2024 United States presidential election? Source: Washington Post Thriley (talk) 20:15, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- Grammar! "a" squirrel Johnbod (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT2... that Peanut the squirrel was taken from his home by New York State and euthanized soon after? Johnbod (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Oh, that squirrel... I followed this when it was at ITN and in the pre-election hullaballoo. Article is new enough and long enough. Hook facts are all cited and interesting, though my preference is for ALT0. Earwig flags a fair bit, but they seem to be properly attributed quotes. Good to go. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 00:54, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'd appreciate it if the alt1 hook runs. Far more consequential than making money for the owner. It was the hook I was going to use as the article creator before this drive by nomination was made. Thriley (talk) 21:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe it's me being tired of American politics, but going with a politics-related angle feels cheap at this point. It's like all those previous hooks about COVID: just because a hook is about COVID or US politics does not automatically make it interesting, especially when there's oversaturation both on and off-Wikipedia. Endorsing ALT0 instead as more likely to get readership interest, especially to those not interested in politics. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:20, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Due to concerns raised at WT:DYK, the nomination has been pulled for now. Consensus is leaning against ALT1 (the promoted hook); however, a concern has been raised that ALT0 (the hook consensus was leaning in favor of) may not be accurate or supported, and thus may need revision. The discussion did not discuss ALT2. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- My bad, I changed the Express Tribune and New York Post with the Telegraph and misread it. The sentence now ends with just the Express Tribune. Should be supported now.--Launchballer 23:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think ignoring a citation to an in-depth article from a reliable source and instead using a four paragraph summary of a NYPost article from a random Pakistani newspaper which doesn't actually reflect the source just for the sake of a DYK hook is what editors should be doing. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- I skimmed WP:RSN for "Express Tribune" and saw nothing of concern nor any indication in the article it came from the New York Post, but I've put the Telegraph back. Hmm, "helped steer viewers to its owner's OnlyFans account", cited to Vanity Fair...--Launchballer 16:22, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think ignoring a citation to an in-depth article from a reliable source and instead using a four paragraph summary of a NYPost article from a random Pakistani newspaper which doesn't actually reflect the source just for the sake of a DYK hook is what editors should be doing. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- My bad, I changed the Express Tribune and New York Post with the Telegraph and misread it. The sentence now ends with just the Express Tribune. Should be supported now.--Launchballer 23:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Clifton House School, Harold Styan
- ... that sports teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School was a gymnast who played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? (155 characters)
- ALT1: ... that gym teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School was awarded the Order of the British Empire for services to youth, but as an old man he knocked out two lads who attacked him? (180 characters) Source: The London Gazette and as ALT0
- Reviewed: Bunt sind schon die Wälder and Helen Chaman Lall
- Comment: Clifton House School was moved to mainspace by me on 4 November 2024. Harold Styan was moved to mainspace on my behalf by admin Keith D on 18 November 2024, because my pagemover rights did not permit me to override a redirect page.
Storye book (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC).
- I'm not yet sure if I will give this a full review, so I'll just leave this as a comment for now. Although the angle provided meets DYKINT, I have reservations if it meets the guidelines. For one, both hooks may need a trimming (it might be better to focus on the "two attackers were knocked out" angle alone without mentioning the gymnast or music hall clauses). More importantly, I'm not sure if the hooks as currently written meet WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE, specifically the part about avoiding writing hooks where the bolded article is only tangentially related to the main hook fact (the hooks seem to be more about Styan than the school itself). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT0 is 155 characters. According to the link you provided about trimming, it is ideal length.
- ALT1 is 180 characters. Being 180 characters is not a trimming issue by itself.
- Styan was a big part of that school, as can be seen in the article. There is plenty of material about him in the article, because he was a big presence there. If our readers click on the bold link, they will read more about Styan there than anywhere else online. Therefore he is relevant to the hook.
- Meanwhile I'll go and find an extra hook or two, anyway. Storye book (talk) 10:04, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2: ... Clifton House School formed a scout pack which received an award from Lord Baden Powell for "best pack the United Kingdom"? Source: Neesam, Malcolm (26 February 1999). "Lord Baden Powell on the Stray". Harrogate Advertiser and Weekly List of the Visitors. p. 7 col.4. Retrieved 30 October 2024 – via British Newspaper Archive. "Lord Baden Powell was in Harrogate for the special purpose of presenting Peter's Pole to the Clifton House School Pack, which had won the award of best pack in the United Kingdom, an exceptional commendation".
- ALT0a: ... that sports teacher Harold Styan of Clifton House School played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above
- ALT0b: ... that Clifton House School's sports teacher Harold Styan played the music halls when young, and knocked out two attackers in his old age? Source as above Storye book (talk) 11:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- One issue is that, while not an official rule or guidelines, it is usually discouraged to mention people without articles by name in hooks. I'm not sure how strict that practice is, but it's been brought up many times in the past. In any case, it might be necessary to remove Styan's name from the hooks. As for the trimming part, the wording I had was something like "... that a Clifton House School sports teacher knocked out two attackers in his old age?", which is more straightforward. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think your suggestion is appropriate, because this was an expensive private school, and Styan had the Order of the British Empire for his youth work. In other words, he was a hero and teacher, not a gangster. The hooks that I gave suggest that he was a complicated and interesting character, but your hook suggests that he might be just some kind of felon or that he ultimately developed dementia. If there is no specific rule against using his name, then I don't see why we should remove it. However I shall look at that section of the article and see whether there is enough there to make Styan into a separate article, then the hooks will have his name in lights, and this nom will be a double nom. Storye book (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Update. I am separating the two articles, but it will take a day or two. Thank you for your patience. Please note that the Harold Styan link is currently a redirect to Clifton House School. I shall correct that when I publish his article. Storye book (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's not a rule that's formally codified and thus not in the guidelines, but I remember it being discouraged before. I think Theleekycauldron might know about it. In any case, if the hook becomes a double nom then that particular issue becomes moot. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- see WP:DYKG#C1 theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I am not sure what you are referring to, Leeky, but the redirect is temporary on this page as explained above, and not intended for publication on the Main Page. I have nearly finished Styan's own page, and hope to publish today or tomorrow (when the redirect will resolve to a direct link). Thank you for your patience. Storye book (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me! :) theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 08:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- I am not sure what you are referring to, Leeky, but the redirect is temporary on this page as explained above, and not intended for publication on the Main Page. I have nearly finished Styan's own page, and hope to publish today or tomorrow (when the redirect will resolve to a direct link). Thank you for your patience. Storye book (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- see WP:DYKG#C1 theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 23:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- It's not a rule that's formally codified and thus not in the guidelines, but I remember it being discouraged before. I think Theleekycauldron might know about it. In any case, if the hook becomes a double nom then that particular issue becomes moot. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Update. I am separating the two articles, but it will take a day or two. Thank you for your patience. Please note that the Harold Styan link is currently a redirect to Clifton House School. I shall correct that when I publish his article. Storye book (talk) 18:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think your suggestion is appropriate, because this was an expensive private school, and Styan had the Order of the British Empire for his youth work. In other words, he was a hero and teacher, not a gangster. The hooks that I gave suggest that he was a complicated and interesting character, but your hook suggests that he might be just some kind of felon or that he ultimately developed dementia. If there is no specific rule against using his name, then I don't see why we should remove it. However I shall look at that section of the article and see whether there is enough there to make Styan into a separate article, then the hooks will have his name in lights, and this nom will be a double nom. Storye book (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- One issue is that, while not an official rule or guidelines, it is usually discouraged to mention people without articles by name in hooks. I'm not sure how strict that practice is, but it's been brought up many times in the past. In any case, it might be necessary to remove Styan's name from the hooks. As for the trimming part, the wording I had was something like "... that a Clifton House School sports teacher knocked out two attackers in his old age?", which is more straightforward. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- Harold Styan now has his own article, so his name is now bolded in the hooks. Admin, please could we now have this as a double nom? BlueMoonset? Mandarax? Maile66? Thank you. (
I shall shortly provide a QPQ for the Harold Styan articleUpdate: second review done. See "reviewed" section above).Storye book (talk) 11:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)- The second article has been integrated into the nomination template. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 18:14, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you, Mandarax! Storye book (talk) 18:28, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
- Both articles are now ready for review. Storye book (talk) 11:40, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
Pro-Fatimid conspiracy against Saladin
- ... that the members of an alleged conspiracy to overthrow Saladin and restore the Fatimid Caliphate are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?
- Source: summary of the entire article
Constantine ✍ 19:27, 4 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: Not a review but the hook can be made better. Doesn't seem appealing enough but there's an underlying interest. All the best! Regards, Aafi (talk) 18:14, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Cplakidas: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer and Aafi: what am I supposed to address? If there is any specific criticism or suggestion for improvement, I'll gladly consider it, but 'can be made better' or 'not appealing enough' is little to go on. The fact that Muslims would make common cause with the Crusaders, or with a sect known as 'Assassins' of all things, is IMO plenty interesting, especially compared to many other hooks I have encountered in DYK in the past. Constantine ✍ 17:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- as I said in my comment (not a review) but I do agree that the latter part "are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?" is pretty much interesting. The initial part didn't appeal to me and I dropped a comment. Up to you or a reviewer, to work on this. This wasn't a serious review but a simple suggestions that this could be worked upon. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks Aafi for clarifying. How about ALT1 ... that the members of an abortive conspiracy to restore the Fatimid Caliphate are said to have asked the Order of Assassins for assistance in eliminating Saladin? Constantine ✍ 10:49, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- as I said in my comment (not a review) but I do agree that the latter part "are said to have made common cause with the Crusaders and the Assassins?" is pretty much interesting. The initial part didn't appeal to me and I dropped a comment. Up to you or a reviewer, to work on this. This wasn't a serious review but a simple suggestions that this could be worked upon. Regards, Aafi (talk) 17:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Launchballer and Aafi: what am I supposed to address? If there is any specific criticism or suggestion for improvement, I'll gladly consider it, but 'can be made better' or 'not appealing enough' is little to go on. The fact that Muslims would make common cause with the Crusaders, or with a sect known as 'Assassins' of all things, is IMO plenty interesting, especially compared to many other hooks I have encountered in DYK in the past. Constantine ✍ 17:18, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Cplakidas: Please address the above.--Launchballer 01:27, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 5
editOasis (Minecraft clone)
- ... that Oasis has been described as a "haunted" version of Minecraft? Source:[15]
- ALT1: ... that Oasis, a clone of Minecraft, runs using no code? Source:[16]
- ALT2: ... that Oasis, a clone of Minecraft, is run entirely using artificial intelligence? Source:[17]
- ALT3: ... that an AI-generated Minecraft clone has been described as an early glimpse at the future of video games? Source:[18]
- Reviewed:
Loytra (talk) 13:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment The disambiguation is incorrect - if this is considered a video game, then per WP:NCVGDAB it should be (2024 video game) instead (since there is already a 2005 video game of the same name). That said, I am not sure I would consider it a video game, given that it does not work according to anything but dream logic, and is more of a vague approximation of a game. Therefore, (simulation) or (AI simulation) could be a better disambiguation. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:30, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
- If it's not clear exactly what Oasis is, then why would the disambiguation be considered incorrect? The software is most notable for being a clone of Minecraft, surely that should be mentioned in the title for clarity sake? Hell, half the time it's referred to as "AI Minecraft" rather than its actual name. Loytra (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- It is incorrect because "Minecraft clone" is overly specific and therefore goes against disambiguation guidelines. It is like using (black dog with long fur and floppy ears) instead of (dog). It must be made more broad, whether by calling it "video game" or "simulation". Furthermore, calling it a "clone" may in fact be incorrect. It is literally Minecraft, as played by interpreting the game through an AI, whereas "clone" is typically used to describe games that are similar to, but not identical to another. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the sources referenced in the article describe it as a "version of Minecraft" or simply "AI-generated Minecraft". It really isn't commonly referred to as "Oasis"; I don't think most people would recognise the software if it was under the title "Oasis (2024 video game)" or "Oasis (simulation)". Imo it has to have "Minecraft" in the title. I know naming conventions are pretty strict but I'd almost argue that this is an WP:IAR situation. Loytra (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- I can confidently say it's not an IAR situation. After looking at the sources more, I am convinced that (AI model) is the best DAB for this as it is first and foremost a model that can be "played" using a game interface. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Most of the sources referenced in the article describe it as a "version of Minecraft" or simply "AI-generated Minecraft". It really isn't commonly referred to as "Oasis"; I don't think most people would recognise the software if it was under the title "Oasis (2024 video game)" or "Oasis (simulation)". Imo it has to have "Minecraft" in the title. I know naming conventions are pretty strict but I'd almost argue that this is an WP:IAR situation. Loytra (talk) 11:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- It is incorrect because "Minecraft clone" is overly specific and therefore goes against disambiguation guidelines. It is like using (black dog with long fur and floppy ears) instead of (dog). It must be made more broad, whether by calling it "video game" or "simulation". Furthermore, calling it a "clone" may in fact be incorrect. It is literally Minecraft, as played by interpreting the game through an AI, whereas "clone" is typically used to describe games that are similar to, but not identical to another. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:42, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- If it's not clear exactly what Oasis is, then why would the disambiguation be considered incorrect? The software is most notable for being a clone of Minecraft, surely that should be mentioned in the title for clarity sake? Hell, half the time it's referred to as "AI Minecraft" rather than its actual name. Loytra (talk) 01:43, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. I don't think arguing over the title should block this from DYK. Only truly egregiously wrong titles would cause that kind of problem, and the current title is clearly not that bad - as noted, the COMMONNAME is something like "AI Minecraft". (And I don't think the case is as open-and-shut as Zxc thinks it is, either.) Zxc, you should file a WP:RM and see what the community thinks IMO. SnowFire (talk) 19:21, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. Its now time to keep discussion in this template related to DYK reviews and any discussion about the name of this article, should take place via an RM and any discussion about improving this article should take place at the relevant talk page. Article titles are outside the scope of a DYK review. side note: sounds like I'm a forum moderator at this point JuniperChill (talk) 16:19, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
A reviewer is needed for this nomination. Z1720 (talk) 15:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing: - Forbes Sites is not a reliable source per past consensus; Decrypt Media seems a bit borderline, but regardless of reliability the link needs to not be directly to the CEO's article. Backdash seems to be a how-to website, so also in need of replacement. 80 Level seems to be a clickbait outlet for a jobs hiring platform.
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
- Other problems: - See above on sourcing.
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - Forbes Sites cannot be used for the citation. ALT2 (sourced to BoingBoing) is acceptable.
- Interesting:
QPQ: None required. |
Overall: Sourcing needs serious work. Once resolved, ALT2 should be good to go. SounderBruce 02:35, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- You pinged me on my talk page @SounderBruce: but this is not my nomination, I just created the article. I can take over the nomination if you'd like @Loytra: but that'd be up to you. Johnson524 03:44, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies, I didn't notice the separate byline here. SounderBruce 03:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SounderBruce: Since the concerns were sourcing based and not hook based, I figured it'd be fine do finish them. Good catch on Forbes, it has been removed from the article. As an added bonus, while finding alternative sourcing for Forbes in the article, I stumbled across a few instances of copyediting-gone-wrong, where the correct sources citing some sentences were accidently removed and replaced with the wrong citation. Those instances have been corrected as well! The Decrypt Media link has been fixed, and some of the wording on the about page for 80 Level did seem pretty concerning, hinting at little editorial oversight, and has likewise been removed. I am a little hesitant to remove the Backdash source though, as it appears to be a website dedicated publishing gaming articles, does not claim to be a blog, and has credited authors. I really don't see what the issue is. Do you think this DYK can pass now? Cheers! Johnson524 04:46, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Apologies, I didn't notice the separate byline here. SounderBruce 03:45, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Abortion in Kyrgyzstan
- ... that although abortion in Kyrgyzstan is legal, many women refuse to go through with it as it is considered haram in Islamic law?
- Reviewed:
-Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 15:41, 5 November 2024 (UTC).
- @PhoenixCaelestis: The article looks good. No copyvios. QPQ not needed. Hook is interesting. I would add a link to haram. In the sources I was unable to find the part that said that it is haram, and that women refuse to do it for this reason. I see that part about that woman in Osh, but the source doesn't say the "haram" bit. Could you provide one that does say "haram" please? ―Panamitsu (talk) 05:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Panamitsu: I've added a link to haram, and here's a source for the part on whether or not abortion is haram. It is from the Australian National Imams Council, an organization of mosque leaders.
https://www.anic.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/THE-ISLAMIC-POSITION-ON-ABORTION.pdf
―PhoenixCaelestis (talk) 07:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PhoenixCaelestis: Thank you for working on this article. The source you suggest states the formal position as haram, but I do not see information in the article or the source you added to support the statement "that women refuse to do it for this reason". You need statistics if you want to support this claim. The only case mentioned is one woman doctor who says that she is now afraid to counsel people about abortion. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:18, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Mary Mark Ockerbloom: I've added two more sources to the article to back the claim, and I will provide them here as well.
https://www.un.org/womenwatch/daw/Review/responses/KYRGYZSTAN-English.pdf https://europe.ippf.org/blogs/kyrgyzstans-cocktail-conservatism-and-apathy-bitter-draught-women
-Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 13:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PhoenixCaelestis: The new sources generally talk about culture and issues in medical care for women, but I don't see that either one clearly presents either a claim or evidence that many women refuse to go through with abortion because it is considered haram. One source even comments (without data?) that women may be more likely to get abortions because contraception is costly. The sources are also not very current. I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I think you'll need to either rephrase the hook or find more explicit sources that clearly support what you state. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 17:02, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- The hook is very unlikely to be true. In addition to what Mary Mark Ockerbloom wrote, I should also note that the claim that abortion is haram is in itself either misleading or outright incorrect, as explained by Islam and abortion. Each of the four Sunni schools considers abortion permitted but under different circumstances, and the dominant school in Kyrgyzstan is the one that is most permitting regarding abortion. Surtsicna (talk) 23:12, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PhoenixCaelestis: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 15:17, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- How about something like "...that although abortion in Kyrgyzstan is legal, it faces significant challenges in the public view?" It might be a little awkwardly worded, but I think it fits the evidence I have best. If you all still have problems or suggestions please just let me know. -Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 14:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC).
- Isn't that rather common even in some countries where abortion is legal? Even where it is legal, there is often a stigma around it. I don't see how that's limited to Kyrgyzstan. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @PhoenixCaelestis: Per my above comment, this probably needs a completely different angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:21, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- Isn't that rather common even in some countries where abortion is legal? Even where it is legal, there is often a stigma around it. I don't see how that's limited to Kyrgyzstan. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:55, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Given issues with the article and the hooks proposed, as well as the nominator not responding to the above request to propose a new hook despite a ping, marking for closure. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Gohobi
- ... that the Japanese band Gohobi describes themselves as having a tofu mentality? Source: [19] ("「自信がなくて何が悪い 男女混声豆腐メンタル五人組」")
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Ivan Ivan (ice hockey)
- Comment: Up to the reviewer if there should be quotes around "tofu mentality".
Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:26, 5 November 2024 (UTC).
- @Narutolovehinata5:, Thanks for the article. This is a suggestion: could you expand the article slightly to give some idea of what it means to have a "tofu mentality"? For those of us who won't be able to read the original sources if we click through, the current Wikipedia article gives no explanation of the hook. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:26, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, the sources regarding the band only use "tofu mentality" without further elaboration (other than it was a term they gave to themselves), so I can't really add more to the article without doing original research. Technically, in Japanese, the term "tofu mentality" means something similar to what English speakers would call a "snowflake", although the article uses a literal translation of "豆腐メンタル" rather than the translated version (which is probably still accurate since the literal meaning is correct in Japanese). The full explanation about what the term means would probably not work for the band's article since it would delve into original research or even WP:COAT, but that's the explanation for context. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:06, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- jp:豆腐メンタル maps to Snowflake (slang), so maybe a piped link to Snowflake (slang) in the hook would suffice?
- have created redirect for tofu mentality, and updating hook below -Bogger (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT0A... that the Japanese band Gohobi describes themselves as having a tofu mentality? (same source) -Bogger (talk) 14:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)- I actually think the link would distract from the main article and divert clicks, so linking in the hook might not be a good idea. Should be fine for the article, though. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- "tofu mentality" ..? -Bogger (talk) 09:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I mentioned in the original nomination comment that I'd leave it to the reviewer if "tofu mentality" should have quotes or not since I wasn't sure if they were necessary. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I actually think the link would distract from the main article and divert clicks, so linking in the hook might not be a good idea. Should be fine for the article, though. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:00, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- have created redirect for tofu mentality, and updating hook below -Bogger (talk) 15:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 7
editOrganization of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
- ... that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is organized into centers descended from ones created in 1980, except for two founded in 1914 and in 1899?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Maria Muntañola Cvetković
- Comment: Since NIOSH is part of CDC, I have a COI and I request an experienced editor to check the article.
John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 00:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review, but the hook as currently written doesn't seem to be very interesting. At the very least it doesn't seem to meet WP:DYKINT. Can different hooks be proposed here? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- @John P. Sadowski (NIOSH): Pinging for a response. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:54, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1: ... that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was just one center until 1980? Source: [24]John P. Sadowski (NIOSH) (talk) 02:16, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT1: ... that the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was just one center until 1980?
Petergofsky District
- ... that between February and August 1918 the Petergofsky District mobilized more than 20 combat units for the Red Army?
- Source: M. Mitelʹman. Борьба партии большевиков за упрочение советской власти (1917- 1918 гг.). Политиздат при ЦК ВКП(б), 1940. p. 20
Soman (talk) 23:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC).
Bunt sind schon die Wälder
- ...
that the melody for the song "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) that Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) created in 1799 has remained popular?Source: [25]- Reviewed: David Hilchen
Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC).
- I shall review this. Storye book (talk) 10:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Thank you for this interesting article. I would like to hear this one. A few comments:
- Earwig finds only quotations and proper names. No problem there.
- The hook citation (above) for ALT0 was not in the article, so I added it there. I also gave the article a very minor copyedit. That does not affect this DYK review.
One issue: The citation given above for ALT0 does not confirm popularity. Popularity is mentioned in the name of the website, but not in the main text of the website. Also, the website name says (if I understand correctly) "popular and traditional lieder", so according to that, this piece could be in traditional style (which does not imply popularity). So I think we need to EITHER find another citation OR another hook.Storye book (talk) 11:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Storye book: Not really a fan of the proposed hook, since the context given does not seem to make it clear why it is important that it has remained popular, and the context of it remaining popular is not clear (what is intended by "remained popular"?). I was going to suggest a hook involving Schubert, but the meaning of "different setting" is not clear: does it mean he wrote another melody to the song, or that Reichardt's melody was later re-used by Schubert? If it's the latter then perhaps that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- The wording I had in mind was something like "... that the melody of "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) was later used by Franz Schubert?", but I'm not sure if that was the intended context of the "Schubert wrote a different setting" part. That suggestion could probably still be worked on, I just threw it out here for brainstorming purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you - both - for thinking. I am open to rewording. Grammar: in German, "und" says that something is both, both traditional and popular", - if it was only one, German would use "oder". As you will have seen, there were multiple melodies, before and after, but this is the one in most publications, recorded, sung. Take Hannes Wader, a singer-songwriter himself: singing that old melody. (yt at the bottom) - Schubert wrote a different setting (= different melody + different piano), which didn't become popular, - note that only one of the uses mentioned has his version, - it remained for art singers and higher school education. What word would you choose instead of "popular" for: is the one that people know and sing? Schubert is really only a side note here, his setting didn't get popular in any sense, it's not Erlkönig. I didn't know he wrote a melody, but now he wrote 700 (as DYK once informed us). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:35, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Would it help to add that it was recorded among the "80 most popular Volkslieder" [26]. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- The new reference given by Gerda Arendt is satisfactory, and it explains the meaning of popularity in the article's context. Gerda, could you please give us an ALT1, and put the
new sentence andcitation in the article? Thank you. Storye book (talk) 08:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)- Storye bookYou mean a sentence about that collection? (In another nom, someone mentioned "promotional". Anyway, ref added, which supports "remained popular. Will search for more. As a little gift: a children's tv version ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:30, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
- I added two more indications of popularity, a 2011 poll and a 2017 collection. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
ALT0a: ... that the Volkslied "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) has remained popular with the 1799 melody by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured)?- to avoid the impression that only the melody remained popular. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)
Thank you, Gerda. The citation is now in the article, and I approve ALT0a, with image. Storye book (talk) 09:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)
- The new reference given by Gerda Arendt is satisfactory, and it explains the meaning of popularity in the article's context. Gerda, could you please give us an ALT1, and put the
- The wording I had in mind was something like "... that the melody of "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" (Colourful are the forests already) by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) was later used by Franz Schubert?", but I'm not sure if that was the intended context of the "Schubert wrote a different setting" part. That suggestion could probably still be worked on, I just threw it out here for brainstorming purposes. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:42, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Storye book: Not really a fan of the proposed hook, since the context given does not seem to make it clear why it is important that it has remained popular, and the context of it remaining popular is not clear (what is intended by "remained popular"?). I was going to suggest a hook involving Schubert, but the meaning of "different setting" is not clear: does it mean he wrote another melody to the song, or that Reichardt's melody was later re-used by Schubert? If it's the latter then perhaps that could work as a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:39, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Pulling this per this discussion. Jlwoodwa raised concerns that the hook was hard to understand. In addition, the hook at best probably borderline meets WP:DYKINT. Some possible alternative suggestions:
ALT1 ... that "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" placed second in a 2011 poll by MDR on the most beautiful Volkslied?ALT1a ... that "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" placed second in a 2011 poll by MDR on the most beautiful German folk song?
- Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:48, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
for ALT 1 or 1a, subject to Gerda Arendt's approval.Storye book (talk) 09:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)- I am sorry that I wrote so misleading. Not true. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: As far as I can see, you have not written anything misleading or untrue. Please explain? Thanks.
- Regarding the word, "popular", in the discussion someone appeared confused by the word, presumably because they lived in a world so narrow that they did not know that "popular music" is a subsidiary meaning of "popular", which has for hundreds of years just meant that a lot of people liked something. Storye book (talk) 10:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- The poll had 20 suggestions without Herbstlied. IT was No. 2 of the additional ones. - Please word for me. A song with a 1799 tune is still popular. The song hast a longish title in German, which I thought was good to translate. The title could mean anything, so we have to say what it is if you ask me. As you will not have noticed the hook is a bit quirky because with a composed melody it's not what you'd expect a Volkslied to be. Why would we not credit the composer who won over Schubert in popularity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2 ... that the folk-style melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" was composed long ago by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured) and it is still liked by many?
ALT1b .... that radio listeners voted "Bunt sind schon die Wälder" second in their suggested list of the most beautiful German folk songs?(See Gerda's comment above, regarding this one). Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)- Third party required to approve ALT2
and/or ALT1bonly. Storye book (talk) 11:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)- I think ALT1b would get us into trouble with ERRORS because it's more No. 22, and tough to explain with the 20 from the station. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- The poll had 20 suggestions without Herbstlied. IT was No. 2 of the additional ones. - Please word for me. A song with a 1799 tune is still popular. The song hast a longish title in German, which I thought was good to translate. The title could mean anything, so we have to say what it is if you ask me. As you will not have noticed the hook is a bit quirky because with a composed melody it's not what you'd expect a Volkslied to be. Why would we not credit the composer who won over Schubert in popularity? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
- I am sorry that I wrote so misleading. Not true. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)
I really don't think ALT2 as currently written is going to work out. It's rather vague and basically says "did you know that this song written long ago is still popular?", which actually isn't all that uncommon. It would be like a hook saying "that the folk song "Yankee Doodle" from the 1700s remains popular?" I still think something about the poll would be the best option here, although if that really can't work out then either a completely different angle be suggested here, or the nomination be rejected for lack of a hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:23, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- And I really don't think that slamming down the hopes of a nomination which bores you (and bores you alone, so far) is a constructive way to contribute. If this subject matter bores you, go and contribute to a nomination about your own favourite music, sport or whatever, and leave us to work productively on this one. Thank you.
- Controversy about which tune is the "right" one for a favourite set of verses can be a powerful force, and can cause concerts to be spoiled or cancelled. For example, in the UK (and possibly Europe, I don't know), a favoured tune for Psalm 23 is Crimond. There are many competing tunes for it, including Brother James' Air, which allows more fancy choral settings. However, when some people (including me) hear that tune used instead of Crimond, they become very angry. There is nothing wrong with Brother James' Air, but Crimond is loved for sentimental reasons. I can assure you that the subject matter of ALT 2 is far from boring. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- ALT3 ... that the melody for "Bunt sind schon die Wälder", composed by Johann Friedrich Reichardt (pictured), is still preferred by many, even though the famous Franz Schubert wrote a tune for it? (176 characters)
- Third party approval still required for ALT2 and/or ALT3. Storye book (talk) 10:17, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- We could go with some variation of ALT3 (we probably need to reject ALT2 however due to WP:DYKINT reasons). However, the issue with ALT3 is that it is not directly stated in the article or the source (there is nothing in the article that directly says that people prefer Recihardt's version, just that it exists and is popular while one by Schubert exists). If that could be addressed, ALT3 would be a suitable option.
- As for the "bores me" aspect, for what it's worth, Gerda's nominations and hooks have long had a reputation among several DYK regulars (not just me) for failing to meet the interestingness criterion, so it's not just me who has raised concerns. Other editors such as 4meter4 and CurryTime7-24 (incidentally both also classical music experts) have also raised concerns about her nominations and hooks in the past. While one could argue that DYKINT is by its nature a subjective criterion, the fact that Gerda's reputation exists, along with how the current wording of DYKINT was a direct response to one of her nominations, can't be discounted. For what it's worth, I have no issue with classical music as a topic itself and there have been plenty of acceptable hooks about the field from Gerda and other editors like 4meter4 and CurryTime among others. The issue has usually been the hooks themselves, not the field. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:10, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Are there any citations available, to support ALT3? Or is there any content in the existing citations, which could be added to the article in support of ALT3? Storye book (talk) 13:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Broadly speaking, classical music is that European vocal and orchestral music composed mostly in the 17th and 18th centuries, the name being reflective of that era's interest in the classical arts, such as Palladian architecture. Classical music tends to be emotionally controlled, with certain formal rules. Then you get transitional composers such as Beethoven who take the mickey out of classical music and play with more emotional stuff. Full-blown 19th-century orchestral music, and music for trained singers at that time in Europe, is called Romantic music, partly because it breaks with the previous century's emotional control. So we are not dealing here on this nom with classical music. It is music from the Romantic era. The confusion arises from today's usage of the word, "classical", where it has come to mean "not pop music". That is to say, when used in that way, the word has little real meaning. Storye book (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- (ec) Packing for return trip. Will be about a day. Hate editing mobile. - Sorry, Schubert takes us too far away. The 2 melodies don't compare. Schubert's is an art song, with no chance to become popular. The composer of such a successful thing deserves mentioning by name, imho. - After edit conflict: indeed, Not classical, but POPULAR. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Broadly speaking, classical music is that European vocal and orchestral music composed mostly in the 17th and 18th centuries, the name being reflective of that era's interest in the classical arts, such as Palladian architecture. Classical music tends to be emotionally controlled, with certain formal rules. Then you get transitional composers such as Beethoven who take the mickey out of classical music and play with more emotional stuff. Full-blown 19th-century orchestral music, and music for trained singers at that time in Europe, is called Romantic music, partly because it breaks with the previous century's emotional control. So we are not dealing here on this nom with classical music. It is music from the Romantic era. The confusion arises from today's usage of the word, "classical", where it has come to mean "not pop music". That is to say, when used in that way, the word has little real meaning. Storye book (talk) 13:35, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Gerda Arendt: Are there any citations available, to support ALT3? Or is there any content in the existing citations, which could be added to the article in support of ALT3? Storye book (talk) 13:18, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 8
editDeath of Milton King
- ... that Caribbean dockworkers started some of the first multinational anti-apartheid protests in the wake of Milton King's death?
- Source: Source 1: Cobley, Alan Gregor (June 1992). "'Far from home': the origins and significance of the Afro‐Caribbean community in South Africa to 1930". Journal of Southern African Studies. 18 (2): 349–370. doi:10.1080/03057079208708318. Source 2: "West Indies Boycott South African Goods". Rand Daily Mail. Johannesburg, South Africa. October 10, 1951. p. 4.
- ALT1: ... that 5 percent of Barbados's entire population turned out to protest the death of Milton King while under Cape Town police officers' custody? Source: Source 1: "10,000 Joined Protest March". The Barbados Advocate. Bridgetown, Barbados. August 26, 1951. p. 12. Source 2: United Nations. 1951 Demographic Yearbook (PDF) (1951 ed.). New York: Statistical Office of the United Nations. p. 95. Retrieved 31 July 2024.
- ALT2: ... that a sailor standing up to police harassment led to some of the first multinational anti-apartheid protests? Source: Source 1: Cobley, Alan Gregor (June 1992). "'Far from home': the origins and significance of the Afro‐Caribbean community in South Africa to 1930". Journal of Southern African Studies. 18 (2): 349–370. doi:10.1080/03057079208708318. Source 2: "Policeman Charged in Death of Milton King". The Barbados Advocate. Bridgetown, Barbados. British United Press. June 15, 1951. p. 3.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Apologies for being a tad delayed on nomination. My first GA. Very open to feedback on hooks, etc.
SunTunnels (talk) 01:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC).
Canaanite ivory comb
- ... that the Canaanite ivory comb that contains the earliest sentence in a phonetic alphabet was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?
- Reviewed:
- Comment: An image would be excellent for this entry. The images are there in the internet but I have been unable to find a suitable one that can be uploaded to commons with proper licensing. Please help me find/upload a picture for this artifact.
❯❯❯ Raydann(Talk) 20:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: So, between 2004 and 2010 or so, I did a lot of reading about artifacts like this. It turns out that it is extremely common for items like this to be set aside for years, decades, perhaps even a century or more, before someone comes along and decides to give them a second look. I only bring this up because while I like your hook, I could see others objecting to it as mundane. Viriditas (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- While I get the point of the hook, it's a bit hard to read. Maybe something along the lines of:
- ALT1 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb contains the earliest-known sentence in a phonetic alphabet?
- ALT2 ... that the Canaanite ivory comb was categorized as a miscellaneous artifact for five years before gaining significance as an important discovery?
- Basically, splitting the original hook into two separate hooks. ALT2 lacks context, but arguably it might encourage a reader to click and learn why it was an important discovery. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- While I get the point of the hook, it's a bit hard to read. Maybe something along the lines of:
Jim Rivaldo
- ... that Jim Rivaldo consulted political campaigns for Harvey Milk in the 1970s and Kamala Harris in 2003?
- Source: [27] Politics was as much a passion as a job for Jim Rivaldo, a veteran San Francisco political consultant who worked campaigns for candidates ranging from Harvey Milk and Ella Hill Hutch to Supervisor Bevin Dufty and District Attorney Kamala Harris.
- ALT1: ... that gay political consultant Jim Rivaldo "used to think that all gay people were hairdressers"? Source: [28] “I used to think that all gay people were hairdressers,” Rivaldo said.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Robot Alley
— Vigilant Cosmic Penguin 🐧 (talk | contribs) 00:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC).
- "Consulted for" or "on", surely? Johnbod (talk) 04:21, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 9
editThe Heart Knows its Own Bitterness (Talmud)
- ... that a Talmudic passage, "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness", is used in Jewish medical ethics to justify patient autonomy?
- Source: current footnote 12: Berger, Zackary; Cahan, Rabbi Joshua (2016). "Patient Autonomy in Talmudic Context: The Patient's "I Must Eat" on Yom Kippur in the Light of Contemporary Bioethics". Journal of Religion and Health. 55 (5): 1778–1785: "Here, we analyze a discussion in the Mishna, a foundational text of rabbinic Judaism, regarding patient autonomy in the setting of religiously mandated fasting, and commentaries in the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmuds, finding both a more expansive notion of such autonomy and a potential metaphysical grounding for it in the importance of patient self-knowledge."
- ALT1: ... that a Talmudic passage, "The Heart Knows its Own Bitterness", has been used to justify a rabbinic law project by and for transgender Jews? Source: current fn #5: Soloman, Laynie; Pearce, Russell G. (2022). "'Nothing about Us without Us': Toward a Liberatory Heterodox Halakha". Touro L. Rev. 37: 1769–1836 – via HeinOnline: ""The heart alone knows its bitterness" is not simply a mantra about the essential power of individuals to dictate their medical needs when confronted with a disputing party. This statement, as we have seen, becomes an interpretive principle that we can utilize to articulate a truth at the center of a vision of a liberatory Heterodox halakha that attempts to center the needs, realities, experiences, and expertise of the community from which it emerges. (1830)... The approaches to Heterodox halakhathat we have described thus far are the ideologies that ground the Trans Halakha Project, a recent initiative that "aims to curate existing resources that have been developed for trans Jews and by trans Jews..." (1832)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Elin Falk
- Comment: I'm very sorry, I lost track of the timing (because I put wrong creation date on my user page)! It's a few days over. But the hooks are short and clearly sourced, so hopefully easy to review.
ProfGray (talk) 14:10, 19 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 10
editJill, Duchess of Hamilton
- ... that Jill, Duchess of Hamilton donated her body to science because "funerals are a bore"?
- ALT1: ... that when asked about the proper form of address for a divorced duchess, Jill, Duchess of Hamilton replied, "I have absolutely no bloody idea, and please don't tell me"? Source: [30]
- ALT2: ... that in her PhD thesis Jill, Duchess of Hamilton uncovered how Christian women in Israel change churches to get a divorce–because Israel does not allow civil divorce? Source: [31]
Surtsicna (talk) 21:12, 13 November 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral: - I think consistently referring to Robertson as "the duchess",
both in the title andthroughout the article, despite her dislike for the title and her specific request for it to be removed from her byline, might cross the line of neutrality for me. Otherwise, it's all good. - Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
---|
|
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: The DYK submission itself looks good, I particularly like ALT0 and ALT1, and for the most part the article is quite good. But I can't help but feel like the use of the "duchess" title throughout the article and in the title crosses the line of non-neutrality, due to her explicit rejection of the title. This is really my main issue with it. Grnrchst (talk) 16:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- Grnrchst, by the time she reached the height of her career she had not been called Robertson for over 30 years. She did not reject the title. She merely asked that it be removed from her byline. The Guardian, for example, gives her byline as "Jill Hamilton" but still calls her "duchess of Hamilton" in the description; the Catholic Herald just sticks with "Jill, Duchess of Hamilton". "Jill, Duchess of Hamilton" remains by far the most common name for her in reliable sources, including the obituaries cited in the article. I am not opposed to substituting some of the duchesses with "Hamilton", however. Surtsicna (talk) 23:44, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Surtsicna: Thanks for the clarification. Per WP:COMMONNAME, I've struck my concerns about the title. I think "the duchess" could safely be replaced in most cases with personal pronouns (she/her), as there's not any ambiguity introduced that requires us to continue repeating who we're talking about. --Grnrchst (talk) 10:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
Planting a Rainbow
- ... that the children's picture book Planting a Rainbow has a gardening theme? Source: pretty much any ref used, for example https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/lois-ehlert/planting-a-rainbow/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Głos Kolejarzy Ewakuowanych — Golos Evakuirovannykh Zheleznodorozhnikov
- Comment: I could not think of a more interesting hook... feel free to suggest stuff.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC).
- ALT1 ... that the children's picture book Planting a Rainbow has been praised for both its "deft use of colors" and the educational identification of seeds, bulbs, sprouts and blossoms? I don't have access to the source to confirm it, but this might be a possible alt. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 15:59, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
Nazareth Hall Preparatory Seminary
- Source: Zyskowski, Bob, ed. (July 9, 1992). "Stories will fly at Naz Hall reunion this fall" (PDF). The Catholic Bulletin. Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis. p. 2. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2024-11-07. Retrieved 2024-11-10.
- ALT1: ... that the altar and baldachin of Nazareth Hall Preparatory Seminary (pictured) were relocated to the Church of Saint Michael in St. Michael, Minnesota? Source: Wiering, Maria (January 14, 2010). Towalski, Joe (ed.). "Liturgical object re-use 'keeps church's sacred art alive'" (PDF). The Catholic Spirit. Vol. 15, no. 1. Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis. p. 23. Archived (PDF) from the original on 2024-11-10. Retrieved 9 November 2024.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nathania Ong
- Comment: Photo only for ALT1 hook
~Darth StabroTalk • Contribs 14:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review, but ALT0, while a catchy hook, is ineligible because the fact is not mentioned within the article for Naz Hall itself (and, beyond that, is not directly backed up by the included source). Leafy46 (talk) 15:58, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Hold Your Hand (film)
- ... that the film Hold Your Hand was based on the author's experiences after getting arrested in 2013?
- Reviewed:
Warm Regards, Miminity (Talk?) (me contribs) 10:11, 10 November 2024 (UTC).
- @Miminity: Not a review, but the hook fails WP:DYKHOOKBLP.--Launchballer 13:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 11
editArtificial intelligence rhetoric
- ... that Kevin Roose wrote a viral article about artificial intelligence rhetoric after an AI bot attempted to convince him to leave his wife?
paul2520 💬 15:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 12
editAlien: Romulus
- ... that Alien: Romulus (2024) starred Ian Holm (pictured) who had died four years earlier in 2020?
- ALT1: ... that Alien: Romulus (2024) starred an actor (pictured) who died in 2020? Source: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240820-why-people-are-upset-about-the-surprise-cameo-in-alien-romulus
- ALT2: ... that the decision to digitally include the late Ian Holm (pictured) in Alien: Romulus (2024) was described as "a disgraceful act of grave robbery or necromancy"? Source: https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240820-why-people-are-upset-about-the-surprise-cameo-in-alien-romulus
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Walter G. Benz Jr.
Lankyant (talk) 03:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC).
- ** ALT3: ... that The Offspring in Alien: Romulus (2024) was played by a 2.31 m (7 ft 7 in) tall Romanian former basket player?Source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2024/08/17/alien-romulus-spoilers-ending-plot/74766600007/
- Review: Article is long enough, hook is interesting, but the source (BBC) does not say that the film "starred" Ian Holm, but rather used a CGI image of him (this is also written in the article). Can we tweak the hook to reflect what the source exactly says? Ippantekina (talk) 04:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
2007 Greensburg tornado
- ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado was the first EF5-rated tornado to hit the United States? Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267555392_Damage_survey_of_the_Greensburg_KS_tornado
- ALT1: ... that Greensburg, Kansas, after being hit by the 2007 Greensburg tornado, was rebuilt with the goal of making it a "green town"? Source: https://www.nrel.gov/buildings/assets/pdfs/53539.pdf
- ALT2: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado devastated Greensburg, Kansas, leaving 95% of the town damaged to some degree? Source: https://www.nrel.gov/buildings/assets/pdfs/53539.pdf
- ALT3: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado was one of only nine EF5-rated tornadoes to touch down in the United States? Source: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/f5torns.html
- ALT4: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado was 1.7 miles (2.7 km) wide? Source: https://www.greensburgks.org/community/pages/2007-ef5-tornado
- ALT5: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado had up to ten smaller tornadoes rotating around it? Source: https://data.cincinnati.com/tornado-archive/kansas/37297/
- ALT6: ... that after hitting Greensburg, Kansas, the 2007 Greensburg tornado looped around, almost hitting the town again? Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267555392_Damage_survey_of_the_Greensburg_KS_tornado
- ALT7: ... that Greensburg, a documentary series about recovery efforts following the 2007 Greensburg tornado, was created by Leonardo DiCaprio? Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20111005072555/http://www.greensburgks.org/news/greensburg-season-3-to-air-on-planet-green/
- ALT8: ... that although the 2007 Greensburg tornado was the first to be rated F5/EF5 in the United States in nine years, the next F5/EF5 tornado would occur in Canada a month later? Source: https://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/f5torns.html and https://www.theweathernetwork.com/en/news/weather/severe/this-day-in-weather-history-june-22-2007-elie-manitoba-tornado
- ALT9: ... that the 2007 Greensburg tornado was the first "incredible tornado" to hit the United States? Source: https://www.iccsafe.org/building-safety-journal/bsj-dives/how-damage-determines-a-tornados-rating-from-fujita-to-enhanced-fujita/#:~:text=EF%2D4%3A%20Devastating%20damage%20(,damage%20(Over%20200%20mph).
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Manhasset
- Comment: Damage Survey authors considered experts in their field (see Timothy P. Marshall).
EF5 13:41, 13 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 13
editAustin Staats
- ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats' contract was suspended after he bit another player's finger?
- ALT1: ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats received a 7 game suspension for being a sore loser? Source: https://www.timesunion.com/sports/article/san-diego-player-gets-7-game-suspension-incident-19451876.php
- Reviewed:
- Comment: ALT1 might be too disparaging. Idk, happy to receive input.
SammySpartan (talk) 23:16, 18 November 2024 (UTC).
- I don't think either hook would meet WP:DYKBLP given their negative tone and their arguably undue focus. A different angle is needed here. Maybe:
- ALT2 ... that lacrosse player Austin Staats works part-time as a firefighter?
- I understand that it's actually common for professional lacrosse players to have other jobs, but that knowledge may not be common to most readers and thus may still be considered intriguing or unusual. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:01, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I guess as a lacrosse fan, what's notable to me about him has been his anger issues on and off the field, but I totally get the need to be neutral. ALT2 works for me. SammySpartan (talk) 17:30, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 14
editMother Solomon
- ... that Mother Solomon returned to Ohio 22 years after the Indian Removal Act forced Wyandots into Kansas?
- Reviewed:
Averageuntitleduser (talk) 00:59, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 15
editMoses sees Rabbi Akiva (Menachot 29b)
- ... that Moses sees Rabbi Akiva (Menachot 29b) martyred, and his body consumed, in a Talmud story that is compared to the transfiguration of Jesus?
- Source: Zellentin, Holger (2023). Aras, Martina; Rizk, Charbel; Stosch, Klaus von (eds.). “Honour with Silence the Words of Your Creator” -- Moses’ Silence in bMenaḥot 29b in Light of its Jewish and Christian Context. Beiträge zur komparativen Theologie. Paderborn: Brill . "In my view, the Bavli’s typological reading of Aqiva comes as close as possible to the Christian model, without, however, overstepping the line: Aqiva is perhaps “the one,” but not a new Adam; he is a messianic figure, but not the Messiah; and he is martyred and his body consumed, but he is not yet resurrected."
- ALT1: ... that Biblical and post-Biblical characters rarely meet in Talmudic stories, as when Moses sees Rabbi Aviva teach and be martyred? Source: Jeffrey Rubenstein, Stories of the Babylonian Talmud (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 2010), 182–20. "I know of no other story that bridges the typically impermeable break between the time of the bible and the time of the sages ...." In 2002, Rubenstein said, "The juxtaposition of these two characters violates the typically strict separation between the biblical and post-biblical times."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Oliver Hutchinson
- Comment: This is a fictional work (story), so DYK facts are about the story's features or interpretation. Another hook: it can be seen as a "failed theodicy" since God tells Moses to be silent in the face of Akiva's torture. But the hook idea is hard to articulate within the time we have.
ProfGray (talk) 20:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment ALT1 is probably better, but ungrammatical. Better:
- ALT2 : ... that meetings between Biblical and post-Biblical characters, as when Moses sees Rabbi Aviva teach and be martyred, are rare in Talmudic stories? Same refs. Johnbod (talk) 04:13, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik
- ... that reading Hermann Weyl's Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik has been said to be like watching "a smiling figure on horseback" wielding "a swift bright sword"?
- ALT1: ... that in his book Gruppentheorie und Quantenmechanik, Hermann Weyl worried about a "crisis in quantum physics" that the discovery of antimatter would resolve? Source: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/weyl/
- Reviewed:
XOR'easter (talk) 00:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 16
editGNX (album)
- ... that Kendrick Lamar's album GNX was described as his "greatest work" by a critic after being surprise released?
- ALT1: ... that on the GNX track "Reincarnated", Kendrick Lamar has a conversation with God? Source: The Line of Best Fit
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Gao Qifeng
- Comment: I seem to be about two hours late but hopefully that is excusable.
NØ 13:56, 23 November 2024 (UTC).
Marzēaḥ
- ... that an inscription from 243 AD for a leader of the marzēaḥ ends with blesses for his sons, the scribe, the person in charge of the cooking, the cupbearer and other assistants?
- ALT1: ... that the relationship between the marzēaḥ and veneration of the dead is still debated among scholars, due to sporadic literary evidence?
— Preceding unsigned comment added by TNM101 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- Reviewed:
TNM101 (chat) 07:21, 17 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 17
editMuhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani
- ... that Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab's claimed photo circulated online is actually Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani?
Faldi00 (talk) 19:35, 19 November 2024 (UTC).
- ALT1... that the photo circulated online claimed to be of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1792) is actually Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab Al Faihani?
Same refs etc. Bit spicier. Johnbod (talk) 21:10, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
- I prefer this one. The sentence structure and lexicons are way better. Faldi00 (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Take it from a native speaker; they're not. But whatever. Johnbod (talk) 13:09, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- I prefer this one. The sentence structure and lexicons are way better. Faldi00 (talk) 06:24, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
De Worsten van Babel
- ... that The "Sausages"' first sausage was filled with 3 courses and an espresso? Source: https://visrecepten.nl/vijf-vragen-aan-hugo-kennis
- ALT1: ... that The "Sausages of Babel" studied musical theatre and graphic design? Source: https://bron.fontys.nl/tv-kok-hugo-kennis-fontys-hardste-leerschool-ooit/ https://oldschool.rietveldacademie.nl/project/the-cave-at-amstel-41-saturday-8-june https://www.kabk.nl/alumni/bachelor-grafisch-ontwerpen/2011-2020 (2015)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/MrBeast Lab
Bogger (talk) 00:11, 18 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 18
editHMS Unruffled
- ... that a cat, Timoshenko, joined HMS Unruffled on twenty wartime patrols in 1942–43?
- Source: Winton, John (1999). The Submariners: Life in British Submarines 1901-1999. Constable. pp. 135–136. ISBN 9780094788107. OCLC 40838991.
- Reviewed:
Heavywick (talk) 15:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: @Heavywick: You're missing a citation at the end of the fifth paragraph in the "Career" section. I also notice that you don't mention or link to ship's cat, military mascot, or military animal in the body of the article, provided at least one of those are relevant. I think Timoshenko qualifies as a ship's cat given his biography. Many ship's cats have similar origin stories. It's also unusual to have such a large section without subsection headings, not just for the accessibility of the reader, but also to group related material. Viriditas (talk) 09:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:@Viriditas: Thank you for the feedback, I have linked ship's cat, moved the citation in para five, and added subheadings to the career section. Heavywick (talk) 09:22, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: I just went through and fixed some typos, removed a duplicate source, and moved the other sources to a further reading holding pen you may want to change. You can see my edits here. Please check the dates of engagement in the "Career" section as they appear to differ from the dates in the "Successes" section. There may be a reason for this or it may just be a typo. Or it may be late and I'm seeing things. Either way, have a look. Aside from that, the only thing left for me to do is random spot checks of the sources. I will do that tomorrow as I'm half asleep at the moment and can barely type. Viriditas (talk) 10:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Initial review
- The original article was expanded just slightly under 5x from a 1766 character article lacking inline sources[34] to a 8507 character article with additional inline citations, all within the relevant time frame.[35] Technically, 5x would amount to 8830 characters, a deficiency of 323. I'm willing to let that slide (and there's a possibility that the DYK check count is wrong and the 5x expansion was met, that has happened in the past). The issue at this time is not the 5x requirement but the use of James Gregan's well researched, but self-published book Burdened but Unruffled: The Story of a World War II Submarine and its Crew (2016),[36] which was published with the help of the Mereo Books publishing service, which primarily helps independent authors design and sometimes even ghostwrite their books. I see that Wikipedia uses a lot of books by Mereo as sources, but my guess is that most of them are established authors and relevant experts in their field. I have tried to confirm that James Gregan meets this qualification but I could not. I attempted to find book reviews, but could not. To argue both sides, I will note that the introduction of Gregan's book does contain a number of potential bona fides, and that could perhaps be used to argue for its inclusion. For example, in the introduction, Gregan names experts who helped him edit and revise his material. I don't have full access to the book at the moment, just snippets from Google Books, but some of the material I reviewed made me wonder if the author added fictionalized accounts or if it was just straight facts; this is unclear to me. Because the close to 5x expansion was accomplished solely using Gregan's work instead of the other sources already listed in the further reading section, this presents a dilemma, as Wikipedia articles must be primarily based on reliable secondary sources whenever possible. Per WP:SPS, "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications." It is entirely unclear if Gregan meets this bright line. Because I am a fan of this article (and ship's cats everywhere) and would love to see it progress further, I will hold out rejecting it outright for the moment while I give the nominator the benefit of the doubt and ask for additional input on the project talk page. Just to note, Earwig did not find anything objectionable, but it's not clear if it had access to the book content. Viriditas (talk) 20:42, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:@Viriditas:
Thank you for the feedback.
For clarity, Gregan's book is entirely factual, and does not contain any fictionalisation. It draws primarily on Admiralty records, and on an interview with the boat's captain that is available online - as these are primary sources, I don't believe they can be cited directly? There simply aren't any other secondary sources on HMS Unruffled that cover it in depth approaching Gregan's work.
From looking at other articles, uboat.net (which draws on the same admiralty records) seems to be accepted as a reliable source. The page for HMS Unruffled contains an essentially identical record of HMS Unruffled's career to Gregan's work, albeit with less details around non-operational matters (ie. the cat, the crew's celebration in Colchester, etc.)
Heavywick (talk) 17:4, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Do you know if Gregan is known as an expert in his field? Are there any book reviews or independent mentions of his work elsewhere by military historians? Is it safe to assume Gregan is an independent scholar, researcher or writer, who published this book himself? Or did he receive public funding from a reputable organization? For the book to meet SPS, we need answers to those questions. In one of the snippets that I saw, there was an unusual and fanciful account of the ship’s cat eating lobster that sounded embellished. That made me wonder about the rest of the book. Part of the problem here is we don’t know who the author is and don’t have much info about the book. OCLC doesn’t even have a full entry, just an auto generated listing with no details. And if OCLC doesn’t have it, that’s a real issue. So there are questions. Anything you can do to answer them would be great. I will also a file a noticeboard request in the appropriate place to get more opinions. Viriditas (talk) 18:34, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Comment:@Viriditas: From what I can see this is Gregan's only work, and doesn't seem to have received public funding, so I suppose he wouldn't qualify as an expert. I was unaware Mereo was a self-publishing platform until today. I see what you mean with the passage mentioning the lobster, as an out-of-context snippet that could definitely give that impression; it's not a frequent occurence in the book, though it does note what the crew ate on a particular day every now and then. Heavywick (talk) 18:49, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Got it. I wonder if we can triangulate some kind of reliability between uboat.net, the Admiralty records, and Gregan's book. In general, RS doesn't work that way, but I think given the solidity of the topic, there might a bit of leeway this way or that, I don't know. For example, you note above that Gregan's book mirrors other sources, primary or otherwise. If you had to make a rough guess, how much of the Gregan book that you currently use is found in some other source? Just take a guess. Would it be 80%, for example? Your answer will give me something to go on when I bring this to the RS board. Viriditas (talk) 19:07, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: Yes, 80% or thereabouts sounds accurate for the amount of content that also appears on uboat.net. Ultimately they're both drawing on the same set of Admiralty records. Throughout the career section it's probably 90% or more, with the exceptions being odd bits of detail, and anything about Timoshenko, most of which I believe comes from the interview with Stevens, and there's a few bits that cite newspaper interviews with another crew member. Heavywick (talk) 11:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- I'm trying to think outside the box on this. Is there any way you can replace some of the material with reliable secondary sources, and some of the material with links to the primary sources such as the Admiralty records directly? That would go a long way towards solving most of the problem. If you can’t do that, can you note the relationship between Gregan and the experts he said he talked to and interviewed in the introduction? I realize that is reaching, as notability isn’t inherited and it’s still a SPS lacking expertise, but in my mind it qualifies as a kind of oral history if it is used carefully, in other words, a primary source. I think the key here is find more reliable secondary sources. It’s surprising there aren’t more out there. So far, I’ve asked for additional input and advice from both the DYK and military history project. I will pursue the RS noticeboard as well. Viriditas (talk) 00:34, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- I have tracked down some other references (some primary, some secondary) that verify the history of Unruffled and Timmo the cat, and have added these to the page. Hope this helps. Chaiten1 (talk) 00:02, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks. I will take a look at the further reading section tonight to see if that can be further merged. Viriditas (talk) 01:22, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
@Heavywick: I think you can start replacing Gregan citations. I see that reference 1 (Gregan, 2016. Chapter One: Barrow-in-Furness) can be mostly replaced with Colledge 1969.[37] You'll have to cite the order date from somewhere else, but you can cite "for construction by Vickers Armstrong in Barrow-in-Furness" and "The boat was launched on 19 December 1941" and "was scrapped at Troon in January 1946" to Colledge 1969, p. 339. The less you use Gregan here, the better case you have. Viriditas (talk) 01:45, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: I went ahead and added it for you.[38] Please try to do the same thing for the rest of the further reading section. There are also more potential sources listed here. Viriditas (talk) 02:00, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: I've gone through and replaced all the Gregan citations. There were one or two small details that had to be trimmed, but not much. Uboat.net has replaced a lot of the citations, I believe this is an acceptable source as I had a look at some other submarine articles and it features on them, including articles with Good Article status (for example HMS Splendid (P228)). Heavywick (talk) 18:14, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Don't forgot to change out the source in the hook, or if necessary, to change or add new hooks and sources. You still have Gregan listed as the citation for ALT0. Viriditas (talk) 21:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Have you tried merging the sources in further reading into this article? It would be great if you do so. Given the recent removals, the 5x expansion may be called into question. I will also do a manual count of the expansion just in case, as that can often be more accurate and give you some extra room. But adding more material would be helpful. Viriditas (talk) 21:43, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Update: no real difference with the manual count, so the relative count totals from the original review up above still hold. Viriditas (talk) 21:58, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Update: I can find nothing about this topic in Hutchinson 2001 (Jane's Submarines: War Beneath the Waves from 1776 to the Present Day). Should it be removed? Also, why is there nothing there? Viriditas (talk) 22:21, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- I removed it. Viriditas (talk) 22:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Update: It looks like Walters 2004 (The History of the British 'U' Class Submarine) has all of the information. Please try to get a copy of it or try to access it from Google Books. I wonder if this is the primary source for all the other sources (aside from Gregan). The book was originally published by Pen and Sword Books. They have EPUB versions for purchase[39] if you can't access the info on Google Books or find it at your library. This book would not only place you over the 5x expansion limit, but would likely fill in all the gaps. First thing, take a look at the Google Books version and see how much you can add. Viriditas (talk) 22:37, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- Just taking a guess, but I wonder if this article was originally created based on Walters 2004. Viriditas (talk) 22:40, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
@Heavywick: I made a book request for you here. Viriditas (talk) 23:20, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
- A kind user forwarded me the relevant book pages. I would like to give them to you as well but you don't have email enabled. There are alternative ways to share, such as a file hosting service. Let me know what you want to do. Viriditas (talk) 01:57, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: That's brilliant, thank you. I've enabled email on my account so please feel free to send it over and I'll use it to improve the article. Heavywick (talk) 10:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- Note, recent edits by several different users have vastly improved the accuracy and sources. Unfortunately, I believe the article is now (8089) well below the 5x expansion threshold (8830), whereas before it was just short (8507). I'm not sure I can pass it now as that is a much larger gap. The easiest solution is to expand it, but how easy that is to do is hard to say. Viriditas (talk) 10:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- I've gone through the book provided (thank you!) and used it to expand where possible. What does the character count now come in at? I'm unsure where to find this. Heavywick (talk) 12:03, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- 10201! That’s great. It’s a script called DYK check, but you can also do it manually just by adding the text to a character/word counter. You can install the script by following the instructions up above on the right hand part of the screen where it says DYK check. Make sure to modify the source for your hook up above or consider adding new hooks. Viriditas (talk) 12:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I've re-cited the hook. Heavywick (talk) 12:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Wonderful. I will try to close this whole thing by end of day HST. If that doesn't happen, it's because I'm waiting on having all the people who helped work on this sign off on it, just to be safe. That might take an extra day. Also, please make the link/ref explicit in the hook up above. It doesn't currently say which cited source contains the information. Viriditas (talk) 21:07, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: You need a RS in the hook spot. You also need to have the hook itself explicit in the article and cited. The current hook says Timoshenko did 20 patrols, but I think that's from Gregan. The source you cite says he did 29. Then, there's Winton 1999 (The Submariners) which says the cat was adopted from Gibraltar and "accompanied Unruffled on every one of her patrols" and was later released back to their home at the end of their patrols. Winton goes on to say that it was replaced with two more cats, Timoshenko II and Timoshenko III, but it sounds like this was after the war, but it's not clear. If you don't have the book, let me know and I'll email it to you, but we need to fix the hook, replace it with a definite fact, and add it to the article. Viriditas (talk) 09:44, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas:I don't have access to that book, thanks for offering to send it over. I'll use it to double-check the number of patrols and cite the hook. I believe the other Timoshenkos were in Bermuda, but I'm not 100% sure. Heavywick (talk) 09:56, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: The full version of the book is on Internet Archive. Viriditas (talk) 10:02, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas:Thank you! I've added a couple of citations, and replaced the citation in the hook. Heavywick (talk) 11:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Does the source support the hook where it says "twenty wartime patrols in 1942–43" and does that appear in the current article? Those two things have to happen for me to close this out. Otherwise, you can offer new hooks and add new info. Viriditas (talk) 11:21, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas: Yes, the source supports that. It says Timoshenko went on "every one" of Unruffled's patrols between leaving Gibraltar and returning there. There were twenty such patrols, which I've added a note of in the article (supported by other sources in the article.) Heavywick (talk) 11:42, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: Thank you. For myself, that's enough for me to close the nomination out, but please understand, that might not be enough for other reviewers, who will ask why isn't the hook fully present in the article? There's also the discrepancy that other sources, as we discussed up above, say it was 29 missions, which I can only assume includes Timoshenko II and III, not I. So what we want to do is eliminate the ambiguities and make the hook as clear and explicit in the body as we are able. You and I can clearly tell that that the hook refers to these things, but there's a good chance others will not. So the best way forward is to find a place, any place really, to add some variation of "Timoshenko joined HMS Unruffled on twenty wartime patrols in 1942–43", to the article, with enough sources making it easy to verify. Do that, and we are done. I realize this sounds unnecessary, but it's one of the DYK rules. Viriditas (talk) 20:48, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas:Thank you! I've added a couple of citations, and replaced the citation in the hook. Heavywick (talk) 11:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavywick: The full version of the book is on Internet Archive. Viriditas (talk) 10:02, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Viriditas:I don't have access to that book, thanks for offering to send it over. I'll use it to double-check the number of patrols and cite the hook. I believe the other Timoshenkos were in Bermuda, but I'm not 100% sure. Heavywick (talk) 09:56, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, I've re-cited the hook. Heavywick (talk) 12:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- 10201! That’s great. It’s a script called DYK check, but you can also do it manually just by adding the text to a character/word counter. You can install the script by following the instructions up above on the right hand part of the screen where it says DYK check. Make sure to modify the source for your hook up above or consider adding new hooks. Viriditas (talk) 12:09, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- I've gone through the book provided (thank you!) and used it to expand where possible. What does the character count now come in at? I'm unsure where to find this. Heavywick (talk) 12:03, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
QPQ: None required. |
Overall: Just need to tie up some loose ends now, starting with the sourcing with the hook which still has Gregan listed. Viriditas (talk) 12:15, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 19
editJews in the Polish Army
- ... that about 200,000 Polish Jews served in the Polish Army and related formations during World War II? Source: https://www.avotaynu.com/books/PolishOfficers.htm
- ALT1: ... that before World War II, Jews in the Polish Army formed about a fifth of the Polish military medical services? Source: https://bip.ipn.gov.pl/download/4/11804/Zalaczniknr2doSIWZMakieta.pdf (p. 104 of the pdf IIRC)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Qizil Tugh
- Comment: While one could argue that some details from the body might be more interesting, they might also make the hook less neutral. But see ALT1 if you want something weirder.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:43, 23 November 2024 (UTC).
German atrocities committed against prisoners of war during World War II
- ... that during WW2 Germans committed numerous atrocities against prisoners of war? Source: pretty much any source, but see for example: Hébert, Valerie Geneviève (2021-02-12). Hitler's Generals on Trial: The Last War Crimes Tribunal at Nuremberg. University Press of Kansas. ISBN 978-0-7006-3267-1. 150–153
- ALT1: ... that after World War II, during the Nuremberg High Command Trial, almost all of the German high commanders tried were found guilty of crimes against POWs? Source: a bit less generic; same source as above
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Christmas Invasion
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC).
- This is not a review, and given the topic this is far outside my comfort zone, I will the full review to another editor. However, the hook is kind of dull or at least obvious. Nazis doing atrocities to prisoners of war is kind of a "Well, duh" fact given their reputation. A completely different angle is probably needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:07, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
2019 NFC Divisional Playoff game (Seattle–Green Bay)
- ... that the Seattle Seahawks' loss to the Green Bay Packers in their 2019 Divisional Playoff game was their ninth straight to the Packers at Lambeau Field?
- Reviewed: Sehome, Bellingham, Washington
« Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC).
Sun Haven (video game)
- ... that players can marry the leader in Sun Haven?
- ALT1:
... that players have unlimited energy in Sun Haven, unlike other farm sims?Source: https://www.ign.com/wikis/sun-haven/Tips_and_Tricks_for_Beginners "One of our favorite features in Sun Haven (or lack thereof) is a stamina system. You don't need to worry about passing out from exerting too much energy like you do in other farming games" - Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Crimson Diamond
- Comment: Coincidentally, the QPQ is also a video game. I've been waiting for this game on the Switch (even though I don't own one) and its finally due to release by end of month! It was all because of this video.
- ALT1:
JuniperChill (talk) 00:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC).
- Note: this may be suitable to run on 30 November, the day after the game is on the Switch as its scheduled to release on 29 Nov at 0700 PST (1500 UTC) according to this Reddit post, which was posted by one of the developers (see the username). I totally forgot about the special hook occasion and only just realised. If not, the 29th will do. JuniperChill (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
- Also ALT0a: that players can marry Lucia, the leader of Sun Haven?
- Pretty well-written and interesting article. Both the length and citation quality are alright, however I am of the view that the proposed hooks might potentially be in violation of the rule that "If the subject of the hook is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must be focused on a real-world fact." (WP:DYKFICTION). Would be great if you could propose some other alternatives. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:56, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Kingoflettuce: Well, you can't marry the leaders of Stardew Valley, Coral Island and My Time at Portia/Sandrock so I was thinking SH is unique in this way. Plus, marrying is definitely a real-world fact so I only think ALT1 fails DYKFICTION (because you don't have unlimited stamina IRL) and have self-crossed it out, leaving ALT0/0a it is. JuniperChill (talk) 12:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I would disagree with saying that ALT0 definitely meets WP:DYKFICTION because it's about marriage and the concept of marriage is a real-life fact. Plenty of things that happen in real life, such as births, deaths, marriages, going to school, etc. happen in works of fiction. The real issue here based on WP:DYKFICTION is if ALT0 is to be interpreted as a game mechanic or as a plot point: if it's the former, it might meet the guideline, but if it's the latter, it may not. Game mechanics are among those edge cases where it's not clear if DYKFICTION is met or not. At the very least, a reword may be needed. If not, maybe a different angle is needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I'll hope for the best for this one then. I think i've learnt that DYK hooks shouldn't talk about the game and talk about the real word associated with it. JuniperChill (talk) 08:36, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I would disagree with saying that ALT0 definitely meets WP:DYKFICTION because it's about marriage and the concept of marriage is a real-life fact. Plenty of things that happen in real life, such as births, deaths, marriages, going to school, etc. happen in works of fiction. The real issue here based on WP:DYKFICTION is if ALT0 is to be interpreted as a game mechanic or as a plot point: if it's the former, it might meet the guideline, but if it's the latter, it may not. Game mechanics are among those edge cases where it's not clear if DYKFICTION is met or not. At the very least, a reword may be needed. If not, maybe a different angle is needed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:10, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
Sources: https://www.thegamer.com/best-farming-games-ranked/ "This indie gem has flown under the radar for a surprisingly long time, not gaining much attention until it had its official 1.0 release in early 2023" and https://www.thegamer.com/sun-haven-worth-it/ "Few games blend farming RPG mechanics, casual slice-of-life interactions, and high fantasy styles like Sun Haven does" for ALT2 and 3 respectively
Articles created/expanded on November 20
editMoturoa Island (Bay of Islands)
- ... that in the 1980s when Moturoa Island lost all its endangered kiwi to pest, experts reintroduced seven birds – today there could be as many as 400 kiwis on the island?
- Source: Kiwi were reintroduced to the island in 1984–85, with seven (including three breeding pairs) transported from Waitangi.[1][2] The reintroduction was very successful – Kiwi numbers today have soared. A local landowner said there was 'great debate' over how many Kiwi live on the island, but 'estimates range from 100–300'.[1]
- Reviewed:
Petersmeter (talk) 07:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
- starting review--Kevmin § 00:30, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- First thing I'm seeing is a number of uncited statements in the article. Each unique fact should be cited.--Kevmin § 00:39, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- Petersmeter Additionally the hook fact needs to be present in the article, right now the article states 100-300 Kiwi (what species?), and does not cover the extirpation of the local population at all.--Kevmin § 00:45, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Petersmeter: these issues still need to be addressed the nom here updated.--Kevmin § 19:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Kevmin, and thanks for the articles you suggested. I have spent a bit of time expending the article and you should see fairly substantial changes since you last checked. However, I haven't yet made any changes to the hook. I'm not too sure how this works - do you need me to update the did you know on this page now?Petersmeter (talk)
References
- ^ a b "A Northland island has a very unusual problem... too many kiwi". The New Zealand Herald. Retrieved 20 November 2024.
- ^ Ralph, C John. "Annotated Checklist of the Birds of Moturoa Island, Bay of Islands". Sonic.net. Retrieved 20 November 2024.
Articles created/expanded on November 21
editRenildo José dos Santos
- ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was tragically murdered in 1993 after publicly declaring his bisexuality, and his murderers only started serving their sentences in 2015?
- Source: "Acusado de mandar matar vereador de Coqueiro seco se entrega à polícia". Alagoas (in Brazilian Portuguese). 2015-11-12. Retrieved 2024-11-27.
- ALT1: ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was murdered in 1993 after coming out as bisexual, and his legacy is honored with a human rights award in his name? Source: "Prêmio de Direitos Humanos Renildo José dos Santos acontece nesta terça em Maceió". Tribuna Hoje. Retrieved 2024-11-20.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Despite its creation becoming almost seven days before today, it was expanded today.
--MikutoH talk! 23:48, 27 November 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: The first hook and some statements in the article may not meet WP:NPOV. TheBritinator (talk) 01:07, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @TheBritinator: it may not be. But is it? You didn't state your perspective in a concrete way. --MikutoH talk! 17:21, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- I removed the apparent non-neutral POV~. Since it wasn't specified which part, now I think it's neutral. --MikutoH talk! 20:41, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- The hooks remain non-neutral and should be reworded. Full review would be left to TheBritinator or another editor:
- ALT2 ... that Renildo José dos Santos, a Brazilian councilman, was murdered in 1993 after publicly coming out as bisexual? ("Tragically" is commentary that should be avoided per WP:WTW, the second seems to be commentary that might also not meet NPOV).
- Tragic but sadly not uncommon, so I'm not sure if it's "unusual" enough to meet WP:DYKINT, so maybe other editor can chime in? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: I would say ALT2 is good. TheBritinator (talk) 16:08, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- The hooks remain non-neutral and should be reworded. Full review would be left to TheBritinator or another editor:
Á'a:líya Warbus
- ... that rapper Apt Exact, who was described as "not gangster", was elected to the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia in 2024?
- Source: "Theresa Warbus, who raps as Apt Exact, of the duo Rapsure Risin’, remembers the reception the First Ladies received originally: "‘Who are these girls? They’re not gangster.’""Warner, Andrea (August 17, 2015). "Inside Canada's Indigenous Hip-Hop Scene With The First Ladies Crew". Pitchfork. Retrieved November 21, 2024.
"Conservative candidate Á’a:líya Warbus has won the Chilliwack-Cultus Lake riding in the 2024 provincial election." Feinberg, Jennifer (October 19, 2024). "Conservative Á'a:líya Warbus wins Chilliwack-Cultus Lake riding". The Chilliwack Progress. Retrieved October 24, 2024.
- Reviewed: Goro Takahashi
- Comment:
Gonna work on the QPQ soon,(Edit: Done!) just wanted to put the finishing touches on the article as soon as I could. For the reviewer, I wanted to add this note, since it can be confusing as Warbus uses several names. Á'a:líya Warbus was born Theresa Point, she was the daughter of former Lieutenant Governor Stephen Point. Point would later marry Kalvin Warbus, and go by Theresa Warbus-Point (or the other way around in some instances), before switching to solely having her surname be Warbus. Within the last two years, she had her name changed to Á'a:líya. Thus, the sources can be here and there with her given name, but it is all her. Older sources call her Theresa Point, sources in the late 2010s-2020s call her Theresa Warbus-Point, Theresa Point-Warbus, or Theresa Warbus, and the most recent ones call her Á'a:líya Warbus. It all can be quite confusing.
Ornithoptera (talk) 07:59, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
Doug Hamlin
- ... that the National Rifle Association credited future CEO Doug Hamlin with saving the company $30 million as director of publications?
- Source: Parker, John (July 30, 2024). "NRA CEO & EVP Doug Hamlin Says 'Return On The Investment The Members Have Made In The NRA Is Undeniable'". NRA Shooting Sports USA. Retrieved November 20, 2024.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nayib Bukele
- Comment: there's a much more interesting hook here, but DYKBLP and all that.
charlotte 👸♥ 23:30, 25 November 2024 (UTC).
- If you're referring to what I think you're referring to, then for me it's interesting enough that they went after him for something that happened that long ago. I therefore propose ALT1 ... that after Doug Hamlin was appointed CEO of the NRA in May 2024, anonymous employees called for his suspension over something that happened in 1979? which I believe sidesteps the negative bit.--Launchballer 16:35, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 22
editNoel Hilliam
- ... that shipwreck hunter Noel Hilliam claimed to find a sunken U-Boat off the coast of New Zealand?
- Source: In 2008 The Underwater Heritage Group (of which Noel Hilliam was vice-president) announced that they had discovered a German U-boat off the Kaipara Coast. Hilliam claimed the submarine had been 'observed seven times' and three divers had been to it – however, no photographs exist and it has not since been seen.[1][2]
- Reviewed:
Petersmeter (talk) 07:06, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
- I'll give this a review. Schwede66 08:24, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Some content issues first. The date and place of birth are unreferenced, and you either need to reference those or remove the info. There is an unreferenced section (same thing; either reference it or remove the info). Wikipedia use quotation marks (") rather than apostrophes ('); please change this throughout the article. I've fixed up numerous stylistic issues myself. Now to the DYK criteria. The article was new in mainspace when it was nominated. It's long enough. Apart from the parts listed above, it's suitably referenced. Hilliam was a controversial chap, but I'm happy that it's written in a neutral way. Earwig is clean; all it finds are direct quotes. This appears to be the nominator's second DYK nomination, hence a QPQ is not required. The grammar of the hook is off; it would need to be "claimed to have found". The hook fact itself is referenced. Once the above issues are sorted, this is good to go. Schwede66 09:33, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for your help with this article Schwede66 - I think I have corrected all the quotation marks, added references for the unreferenced section and added a reference for birth place/date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Petersmeter (talk • contribs) 13:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- You will find that Geni.com is not a reliable source; it's listed at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources. I suggest you have a look on PapersPast whether you can find a birth notice in one of the local papers. Schwede66 16:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ "U-196 found off New Zealand ?". Uboat.net.
- ^ "German U-boat found in Northland waters, group claims". RNZ. 7 November 2008.
Sugya
- ... that the composition of a sugya, or passage in the Babylonian Talmud, has multiple layers, with the latest edited with an anonymous voice?
- Source: "Separating the Tannaitic, Amoraic, and Stammaitic layers reveals that the rabbis employ increasingly abstract formulations and concepts in their legal science." Stammaitic = anonymous (same source). See: Rubenstein at https://www.ancientjewreview.com/read/2016/2/9/talmudicstories
- ALT1: ... that a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, may be read as folklore, philosophy, proto-feminist, or legal virtuosity? Source: Folklore -- Stein, Dina (2019). "Linguistic Liaisons: Wives and Vows in the Babylonian Talmud (BT Nedarim 66a-b)". Nashim: A Journal of Jewish Women's Studies & Gender Issues (35). Philosophy: Lévinas, Emmanuel; Aronowicz, Annette; Lévinas, Emmanuel (1990). Nine Talmudic readings. Bloomington: Indiana Univ. Press. ISBN 978-0-253-20876-7. Proto-feminist: Hauptman, Judith (1998). Rereading the rabbis: a woman's voice. Boulder, Colo.: Westview Press. ISBN 978-0-8133-3400-4. Conceptual "virtuosity: -- Moscovitz, Leib (2003). ""Designation is Significant": An Analysis of the Conceptual Sugya in bSan 47b–48b". AJS Review. 27 (2): 227–252. Let me know if quotes from sources would be helpful.
- ALT2: ... that anonymous editors may create a sugya, or passage in the Talmud, by rewording quotations by earlier rabbis? Source: Moscovitz, Leib. "'The Holy Blessed One Be He... Does Not Permit the Righteous to Stumble': Reflections on the Development of a Remarkable BT Theologoumenon." In Rubenstein, Jeffrey L., ed. Creation and Composition: the Contribution of the Bavli Redactors (Stammaim) to the Aggada. Mohr Sieback, 2005, p126 "Second, the anonymous BT redactors contributed to the Talmud by reformulating amoraic dicta, not just by adding to their statements." Friedman, Shamma (2005). "A Good Story Deserves Retelling – The Unfolding Of The Akiva Legend" in same book: see p.72 "anonymous voice in the sugyot... original and creative rather than simply preserving or transmitting"
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tony Pajaczkowski
- Comment: Open to suggestions with the hook, trying to avoid insider jargon. Also, please help with my faulty template use in the QPQ. Btw, "proto-feminist" isn't quite parallel structure.
ProfGray (talk) 04:43, 24 November 2024 (UTC).
ILEA Educational Television Service
- ... that a cable TV channel in the UK was still broadcasting primarily in black and white as late as 1979?
- Source: "Both the ULAVC and ILEA had converted into colour production by 1980, however, the now old GPO VHF cable network was only just capable of transmitting high quality colour (it was originally designed for analogue black and white in 1967)."
- Reviewed:
Nylix4488 (talk) 01:03, 23 November 2024 (UTC).
- I am not seeing the information about it being in black and white explicitly mentioned in the article or the provided quote. The article even mentions a test color broadcast, but not what happened after. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:04, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Nylix4488: Please respond to the above concerns. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:24, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Snow Globe Game
- ... that in a snowy NFL playoff game, the Green Bay Packers fell behind 14–0 after two early fumbles, before scoring six straight touchdowns to win 42–20 and advance to the NFC Championship Game?
- Reviewed: Ian Fyfe (Daily Mirror journalist)
« Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a full review, more of a comment, but per the old supplementary guidelines "Don't assume everyone worldwide knows what country or sport you're talking about." and perhaps more relevantly WP:DYKINT, a rephrasing or different angle may be in order. Most of the world might not understand the hook as currently written as it relies somewhat on specialist American football terminology. This is not to say the hook angle is itself unusable, just that it may need to be reworded for the benefit of international readers and/or non-sports fans. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:38, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- I will await a full review. Thanks. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:37, 25 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Gonzo fan2007: The article was new enough at the time of the nomination (moved to mainspace) and meets length requirements. I cannot use Earwig at the moment so the copyvio check will be to follow. A QPQ has been done. Most of the article is properly sourced. However, as mentioned above, the hook as currently written is rather specialist and thus may not be easily understood or appreciated by non-specialist readers. It's rather long, very detailed, and complicated, in addition to it confusing non-American readers. Due to these concerns, ALT0 has been struck. A simplified version of its hook fact, or perhaps a different angle, will be needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 07:36, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- I would appreciate another reviewer taking this nom. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:39, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- I can respect that, and per your message I won't be participating in your nominations moving forward. However, I still think that the hook hard to read, and the interesting aspect is lost among all the details. Maybe if it is simplified to something like:
- ALT1 ... that in a snowy NFL playoff game, the Green Bay Packers went from losing 14-0 to winning 42-20? (thanks to Epicgenius for suggesting the wording).
- Of course, another editor can take a look. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- For future reviewers, I'm open to rewording, but I don't agree that "fumble" or "touchdown" are specialist terminology, similar to how "tackle" and "goal" are fairly well understood words in the English language, regardless of ones understanding of football/soccer. American football is an international sport with over 400 million followers across the world. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 23:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- I can respect that, and per your message I won't be participating in your nominations moving forward. However, I still think that the hook hard to read, and the interesting aspect is lost among all the details. Maybe if it is simplified to something like:
- Suggesting another hook idea that keeps the use of touchdowns (which I agree is legible in English-speaking contexts) and makes it a bit easier for non-NFL fans: ALT2 ... that the Green Bay Packers won a snowy NFL playoff game by scoring six straight touchdowns after they had been losing 14–0? SounderBruce 05:59, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- SounderBruce, I am good with ALT2. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:19, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 24
editStraight-tusked elephant
- ... that the straight-tusked elephant was one of the largest land mammals ever?
- ALT1: ... that remains of a straight-tusked elephant were found with one of the oldest known wooden spears, created by Neanderthals? Source: https://link.springer.com/10.1007/s10816-023-09635-4
- Reviewed: I have less than 5 noms, so not required
Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:31, 30 November 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review, but I find ALT0 to be the more interesting of the two, though I'd truncate it at "ever" and that statement would require an end-of-sentence citation in any event.--Launchballer 00:18, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Bitcoin buried in Newport landfill
- ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin in a landfill site in 2013, and is now suing the council for £495 million?
- ALT1: ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin in a landfill site in 2013, and is still trying to recover his missing fortune worth £495m? Source: https://www.thetimes.com/article/it-worker-offers-council-50m-to-let-him-search-tip-for-bitcoin-hard-drive-vw3fskg8v
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgr0dyy152jo - ALT2: ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin worth £495m in a landfill site in 2013?
- Reviewed:
- ALT1: ... that a computer engineer from Newport, Wales, lost a hard drive with 8,000 Bitcoin in a landfill site in 2013, and is still trying to recover his missing fortune worth £495m? Source: https://www.thetimes.com/article/it-worker-offers-council-50m-to-let-him-search-tip-for-bitcoin-hard-drive-vw3fskg8v
CNC (talk) 17:35, 28 November 2024 (UTC).
- Given that both hooks seem rather complicated, I wonder if we could just truncate both hooks at "2013", though the final decision could be left to the reviewer. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:55, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- Have added ALT2 for a shorter version. I think the £495m needs referencing as 8,000 Bitcoin is a meaningless number/value to most people, unless this is the purpose of an intriguing and deliberately vague hook though? Not sure. Have amended link placement, but happy for reviewer to tweak and improve as needed. Hooks are not my strong suit, thanks. CNC (talk) 12:02, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- Given that both hooks seem rather complicated, I wonder if we could just truncate both hooks at "2013", though the final decision could be left to the reviewer. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:55, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 25
editNicolaas van Wijk
- ... that after helping provide humanitarian aid during World War I, Nicolaas van Wijk called the Partitions of Poland "an offense against God"?
- Source: van den Baar, p. 32
- ALT1: ... that despite being a critic of communism, Nicolaas van Wijk was suspected of having communist sympathies by Dutch police because he assisted and housed poor Eastern Europeans? Source: Hinrichs, Jan Paul [in Dutch] (2006). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): Slavist, linguist, philanthropist". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 31. Brill: 3–341. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40997485. Retrieved 13 October 2024. pp. 222–223
- ALT2: ... that after meeting Leo Tolstoy's wife, Nicolaas van Wijk's only thought was: "Unhappy land, where the greatest men they have are understood and valued thus"? Source: Hinrichs, Jan Paul [in Dutch] (2006). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): Slavist, linguist, philanthropist". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 31. Brill: 3–341. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40997485. Retrieved 13 October 2024. p. 79
- ALT3: ... that when Nicolaas van Wijk died unexpectedly, the Jewish diarist Etty Hillesum described it as worse than World War II? Source: Hinrichs, Jan Paul [in Dutch] (2006). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): Slavist, linguist, philanthropist". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 31. Brill: 3–341. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40997485. Retrieved 13 October 2024. p. 266
- ALT4: ... that although born to a family of Dutch Reformed preachers, Nicolaas van Wijk supported a Jesuit priest for a professorship, was a doctoral advisor to a Jewish student, and had an Orthodox funeral? Source: Hinrichs, Jan Paul [in Dutch] (2006). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): Slavist, linguist, philanthropist". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 31. Brill: 3–341. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40997485. Retrieved 13 October 2024.
- For preacher family, see p. 11
- For support for the Jesuit, see p. 137
- For doctoral advisor to Jews, see pp. 284–285
- For Orthodox funeral, see * Barentsen, A. A.; Groen, B. M.; Sprenger, R., eds. (1988). "Nicolaas van Wijk (1880–1941): A Collection of Essays on His Life and Work". Studies in Slavic and General Linguistics. 12. Brill: 79–88. ISSN 0169-0124. JSTOR 40996994. Retrieved 12 October 2024. p. 82
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sack of Delhi (1757)
ThaesOfereode (talk) 01:45, 26 November 2024 (UTC).
Frederick Warren Freer
- ... that Frederick Warren Freer (pictured) was referred to as "the painter of beautiful women’s faces"?
- Source: [40]
- ALT1: ... that Frederick Warren Freer (pictured) switched from studying medicine to art after going partially deaf? Source: [41]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tim Hughes (soldier)
Kimikel (talk) 17:31, 25 November 2024 (UTC).
- The article was moved to mainspace on time and a full QPQ has been performed. No close paraphrasing was found (the yellow result on Earwig is a false positive due to repeated mentions of institutions), and both hooks are cited inline and verified. Either hook can be used. The image is public domain so acceptable, but it is probably a bad fit for the Main Page owing to it not being that good quality (the eyes and facial features are not that good at that resolution). There's only one minor issue holding this back: ALT1 is supported by the source, but the current wording of the article does not suggest he studied medicine first before switching, but rather he studied art in lieu of medicine. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 15:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: Thank you for the review, as long as ALT0's okay I'm fine with striking out ALT1. Kimikel (talk) 16:15, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- Actually, a reword to the article would suffice in fixing ALT1's issue. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:37, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 26
editFamily Stress Model
- ... that the Family Stress Model helps explain how economic hardship impacts children and adolescents through family-level processes like interpersonal conflict between caregivers and disrupted parenting?
- Source: "We consider the Family Stress Model (FSM) as a useful framework for understanding the family stress process and its potential impact on children’s lives. As illustrated in Figure 1, the FSM outlines a theoretical process by which economic hardships and pressures (Boxes 1 and 2) exacerbate child and adolescent maladjustment (Box 5) primarily through parents’ psychological distress (Box 3), interparental relationship problems (Box 4a), and disrupted parenting (Box 4b). Box 6 involves additional risk factors that may intensify and protective factors that may dampen the family stress process. Since proposed by Conger and his colleagues there have been at least three published reports that review systematically the extent of empirical support for the FSM." (Masarik & Conger, 2017; Stress and Child Development: A Review of the Family Stress Model, p. 85).
- Reviewed:
MezLazYaz (talk) 23:37, 3 December 2024 (UTC).
Comment @MezLazYaz Not a review. The lead of the article needs work as it doesn't even acknowledge that the FSM is a theory. The very first sentence needs to define what the Family Stress Model is. The first seven words in the lead should/must say "The Family Stress Model is a theory..." You can talk about it growing out of something after you have given a succinct definition in the opening sentence. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section.4meter4 (talk) 15:05, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Alessandra Rojo de la Vega
- ... that Alessandra Rojo de la Vega became the mayor of the Cuauhtémoc, Mexico City, after a gunshot attack, several vote recounts and accusations of gender violence?
- Reviewed:
Alan Islas (talk) 15:43, 1 December 2024 (UTC).
Yvonne Francis-Gibson
- ... that before she was women's minister of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Yvonne Francis-Gibson led a Women's Desk that was "unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues"? Source: Francis-Gibson served as Minister of State in the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Youth & Women’s Affairs + the head of the Women's Desk was Yvonne Francis-Gibson ... the Women's Desk appeared to be subject to the whims and fancies of the government, and was unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues.
- ALT1: ... that before improving women's rights in Saint Vincent and the Grenadines as a legislator, Yvonne Francis-Gibson led a Women's Desk that was "unable to take a firm stand on behalf of women's issues"? Source: she worked to change laws that discriminated against women in our society. Because of her efforts, female teachers in SVG now have the right to maternity leave, and married women may now file income tax returns separate from their husbands as persons in their own right, among other benefits. + ALT0's second ref
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Film Essay on the Euphrates Dam (two articles)
ミラP@Miraclepine 00:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC).
Tjeerd van Andel
- ... that after Tjeerd van Andel first saw life on the deep sea floor he described it as a 'little paradise in the ... sea floor desert'?
- Source: Naomi Oreskes, quoting from Van Andel's diary in: Oreskes, Naomi (2021). "7. Painting Projects White: The Discovery of Deep-Sea Hydrothermal Vents". In, Science on a Mission: How Military Funding Shaped What We Do and Don’t Know about the Ocean. University of Chicago Press. p. 328.' What they found has been described as “one of the most exciting developments since the beginning of the study of oceanography.”... Van Andel kept a personal diary, and just before turning in on the evening of February 17, 1977, he wrote: "In the middle of this ... barren vastness ... a small oasis ... What produced this little paradise in the ... sea floor desert?" https://doi.org/10.7208/9780226732411-008
- A couple more hooks to consider:
- ...ALT1 ... that on their first dive to the Pacific ocean floor, oceanographer Tjeerd van Andel and colleagues were surprised to find giant clams living around hot springs?
- Source:https://tos.org/oceanography/assets/docs/20-1_kusek1.pdf 'About an hour into the dive, the pilot said to me, ‘What are those white things down there?’ .. they were clam shells. You know, clam shells are not all that exciting, but at two feet in
- ...ALT2 ... that the discovery of life on the deep ocean floor by Tjeerd van Andel was described as 'one of the most exciting developments' in oceanography?
- Source: Oreskes, Naomi (2021). "7. Painting Projects White: The Discovery of Deep-Sea Hydrothermal Vents". 'What they found has been described as “one of the most exciting developments since the beginning of the study of oceanography.”.. https://doi.org/10.7208/9780226732411-008
Chaiten1 (talk) 22:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 27
editCarlisle Chang
- ... that Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, "possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean", was destroyed during an airport expansion?
- Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [42]
- ALT1: ... that "the most important work of art in the Caribbean", Carlisle Chang's mural The Inherent Nobility of Man, was destroyed during an airport expansion? Source: Art historian Geoffrey MacLean describes it as having been “possibly the most important work of art in the Caribbean”...The Piarco mural was demolished in 1979, to public outcry, when the airport building was extended. [43]
- ALT2: ... that Carlisle Chang helped design both the flag and the coat of arms of Trinidad and Tobago? Source: "Eventually, Chang got down to work, doing designs at night and submitting them on mornings to the Ministry of Home Affairs whose officials would eventually fly to London where the final designs had to be vetted and approved by Herald’s College. Chang disclosed that the Coat of Arms contains one key input from then premier, Dr Eric Williams, first prime minister of independent Trinidad and Tobago. “He wanted Tobago on the top of it, and that’s what he got. The palm tree on the top is Tobago.”
For the flag, Chang opted for blocks of red, white and black with very precise dimensions. In an interview with Banyan he explained that he was “determined that a child should be able to draw it with a ruler.”" [44] - Reviewed: pending
Guettarda (talk) 04:33, 30 November 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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|
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
- Other problems: - n
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px. |
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|
QPQ: - Not done
Overall: Taking on this review. Guettarda, the article is solid and well-sourced. All three hooks are interesting, but ALT0 and ALT1 refer to Chang's work as the most important of the Caribbean, which seems like a huge claim. It might be better to attribute this assertion to the sources in accordance with DYKDEFINITE. Earwig shows a 44.1% similarity to the sources, but I believe this is due to the numerous direct quotations. I performed a spotcheck on sources 1 and 3 and found no major issues, although source 1 notes that Chang's father actually originated from Canton, China, so you might consider adding this detail to the article. Also, there is a missing square bracket in the quotation "Tobago at the top of [the coat of arms" in the National symbols section. Please ping me once you have completed the QPQ and addressed the issues mentioned above. —Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 06:40, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Prince of Erebor: Thanks so much. I completely forgot about the QPQs. I'll get to that and the other stuff ASAP - I'll ping you as soon as I'm done. I ran it through Earwig's myself and was surprised how high it was, but it was the quotes. Guettarda (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Mike Hasenfratz
- ... that referee Mike Hasenfratz acted in an ice hockey fight in Stay Tuned?
- Reviewed: Homer House and Republic Drug Store
- Comment: I volunteer two QPQ credits for one nomination, to help reduce the backlog of nominations without reviews.
Flibirigit (talk) 01:55, 28 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 28
editTema "Sacher"
- ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" "a pathetic fragment which can only be explained by the desperate state of the composer's health at the the time"?
- Source: Music Reviews by Byron Adams
- ALT1: ... that a critic called Benjamin Britten's Tema "Sacher" a "truncated and barely coherent page [of music]" and "a pathetic fragment"? Source: Ibid
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Sonya Friedman (opera), Template:Did you know nominations/Canticle V: The Death of Saint Narcissus
CurryTime7-24 (talk) 04:45, 28 November 2024 (UTC).
- Two minor issues. The first is that the citation gives page 369 as the source of the wuote. Unless I'm mistaken, that appears to be incorrect. The second issue is that the citation must be repeated at the end of the sentence from which the hook is derived, meaning you need both the first and second sentences of the critical reception section to have citations at the end for ALT1. Otherwise, I think we're good to go. ~ Pbritti (talk) 00:00, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on November 29
editRipken (dog)
- ... that the dog Ripken wears a GoPro on his back while retrieving used bats and tees at major sporting events? (Source)
- ALT1: ... that fans have booed off players who try to take the dog Ripken's job of retrieving used bats and tees at major sporting events? (Source) (Source)
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/The Horn of Plenty & Template:Did you know nominations/George Bogaars
Johnson524 11:34, 5 December 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing: - Concerns about the reliability and quality of sources used, especially for the hooks.
- Neutral:
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
- Other problems: - Article is tagged as needing a copyedit, and I agree. It reads way too informally at points.
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - The Manual (misspelled as The Manuel) used for ALT0 seems to be a clickbait-like website run by Digital Trends, which I would disqualify as a reliable source. InspireMore (used for ALT1) also seems to have journalistic standards and an editorial staff, but is very low quality; surely there's better sources out there?
- Interesting:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Article need some work, especially in the sourcing department. ALT0 would be usable with some cleanup and a better source. SounderBruce 04:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SounderBruce: Thank you for the review, and I'm sorry for submitting this article in such a poor state, I didn't realize how many things were wrong with it! I have removed The Manual source from the page, replaced the ALT0 source with a much better one from Golf Digest, and added a supporting source for ALT1. I'm really bad at copyediting, its something I wish I was better at, but I believe I've removed the worst of the informal wording from the page, so please feel free to tell me what other corrections I can do for the page. Thank you again, and cheers! Johnson524 18:51, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Johnson524: Went through and did a quick copyedit, but there are still major sourcing issues. SounderBruce 02:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SounderBruce: Thank you for the further copyediting! Can you clarify what you mean by major sourcing concerns? I've removed the InspireMore source if that's what you meant, but your concern sounded plural. Cheers! Johnson524 03:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Johnson524: Went through and did a quick copyedit, but there are still major sourcing issues. SounderBruce 02:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Debra Toporowski
- ... that Debra Toporowski served simultaneously on the Cowichan Tribes council, on the North Cowichan council, and as acting mayor, before being elected to the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia?
- Source: "A member of Cowichan Tribes, Toporowski is a two-term elected councillor in the municipality of North Cowichan and a five-time councillor of Cowichan Tribes, the first elected woman to hold positions on two councils at the same time." Barron, Robert (4 November 2024). "Toporowski resigns from her council seat in North Cowichan". Lake Cowichan Gazette. Retrieved 29 November 2024.
"Toporowski was first elected to North Cowichan council in 2018 and again in 2022. She currently serves as acting mayor. She lost her seat on Cowichan Tribes council in 2022, but was elected again in 2024 to a four-year term." Pynn, Larry (May 14, 2024). "Debra Toporowski takes NDP nomination in Cowichan Valley by acclamation". Six Mountains. Retrieved October 20, 2024.
- ALT1: ... that before 1985, Debra Toporowski was unable to receive Indian status, because under the Indian Act, her mother was forced to relinquish her status because she had married a Chinese Canadian man? Source: "Before 1985, Debra Toporowski (Cowichan) could not be a member of the Cowichan Tribes because her Cowichan mother had married a Chinese Canadian man in Duncan. The Indian Act forced her mother to give up her status as a member of the Cowichan Nation." Claxton, Nicholas XEMŦOLTW̱; Fong, Denise; Morrison, Fran; O’Bonsawin, Christine; Omatsu, Maryka; Price, John; Sandhra, Sharanjit Kaur (2021). "Challenging Racist "British Columbia": 150 Years and Counting". CCPA-BC. University of Victoria and the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives (BC Office). Retrieved 2 December 2024.
- ALT2: ... that a local reporter described the vote count for Cowichan Valley as a "back-and-forth battle" taking place between Debra Toporowski and the second place Conservative candidate? Source: "The riding's next MLA will be Debra Toporowski, who won a back-and-forth battle with the Conservative's John Koury." Simpson, Sarah (20 October 2024). "B.C. ELECTION: NDP wins tight race in Cowichan Valley riding". Cowichan Valley Citizen. Retrieved 29 November 2024.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Upper Chehalis people Template:Did you know nominations/Lower Chehalis people
- Comment: Thank you in advance to the reviewer! This is the third in an unofficial series of four on articles regarding the Indigenous MLAs elected during the 2024 BC provincial election.
QPQs will be completed within the next few days.Done, per below. ALT1 truthfully is not the most outstanding, probably thousands were disenfranchised because of that exact provision. If someone is familiar with the loss of status due to the Indian Act, one can understand Toporowski's case is not unique. Larry Grant was another individual whose status was unrecognized because of that same provision. However, it can serve as an educational tool for those unfamiliar with those provisions.
Ornithoptera (talk) 07:11, 2 December 2024 (UTC).
- @Ornithoptera: Note that per current QPQ rules, "QPQs will be completed within the next few days" will not suffice: it has to be immediately, and the nomination can be closed if one is not provided promptly. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:13, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Well... They're done now, thanks for the heads up. Ornithoptera (talk) 11:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Hefker
- ... that hefker, unowned property in Talmudic law, came to express both personal freedom and societal abandonment in 20th C. Yiddish poetry?
- Source: Brenner, Naomi. "Milgroym, Rimon and Interwar Jewish Bilingualism." Journal of Jewish Identities 7, no. 1 (2014): 23-48, including "in Yiddish modernism hefker becomes a new mode of poetic identity that at once celebrates and suffers from this lack of belonging" " In contrast to Bergelson and Markish’s freedom and movement, Stencl’s hefker-yung is no free modernist spirit, but rather a crucified Jesus" Murav, Harriet. "David Hofshteyn’s Poetry of Listening." Lyre–Studies in Poetry and Lyric 1 (2023) including: "This essay examines the multiple resonances of the Jewish term hefker (literally,“unclaimed, abandoned, or neglected property”)... The pogrom cycle, as a whole, is a journey through the broken time and space of antisemitic violence."
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/René Vallon
- Comment: While there are potential hooks from ancient Jewish law alone, the use of this dry legal principle in modernist Yiddish poetry is pretty amazing IMO and new to me. If we're concerned people won't know words like Talmudic and Yiddish, the hook can substitute 'Jewish' for either or both. Thanks.
ProfGray (talk) 21:30, 29 November 2024 (UTC).
Gonna suggest an alt :)
- ALT0a: ... that some 20th century Yiddish poetry incorporates the Talmudic concept of hefker?
Mm, not quite. Trying to figure out how to emphasize the time disparity. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 14:06, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
Adrien Nunez
- ... that dispite limited playing time, Adrien Nunez (pictured) was higher paid than some NBA draft lottery picks while in college?
- ALT1: ... that when student athlete compensation was approved in 2021, Adrien Nunez (pictured) became Michigan basketball's top earning player, despite his small role on the team? Source: https://www.maizenbrew.com/basketball/2021/10/29/22749055/michigan-basketball-adrien-nunez-player-profile-2021-22
- ALT2: ... that less than three months after Adrien Nunez (pictured) released his own music, Billboard announced he was signed by Warner Music?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Zhou Jianyun
TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:06, 29 November 2024 (UTC).
- @TonyTheTiger: DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode so you will need to provide a second QPQ for this nomination. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:16, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: That's a double nom.--Launchballer 15:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- I see, but it should have been mentioned in the nom to avoid confusion. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:02, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Narutolovehinata5: That's a double nom.--Launchballer 15:51, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
Johannes Kaiser
- ... that Johannes Kaiser left the Progressive Citizens' Party in 2018, but re-joined a year later?
- ALT1: ... that Johannes Kaiser was an independent member of the Landtag of Liechtenstein from 2018 to 2019?
- ALT2: ... that Johannes Kaiser was considered the leading opponent to Liechtenstein's accession to the International Monetary Fund? Source: https://www.vaterland.li/liechtenstein/politik/regierungschef-risch-fordert-den-abgeordneten-kaiser-auf-bei-den-fakten-zu-bleiben-art-574259
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Trembleuse
TheBritinator (talk) 01:26, 29 November 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on November 30
editArticles created/expanded on December 1
editAquilegia barykinae
- ... that the columbine Aquilegia barykinae is likely less closely related the similar-looking Aquilegia amurensis that shares its range than to other columbine species?
- Source: [45]
- Reviewed: 1.) Template:Did you know nominations/KCTV, 2.) Template:Did you know nominations/Self-Portrait (Ellen Thesleff), 3.) Template:Did you know nominations/Tema "Sacher", 4.) Template:Did you know nominations/Ken Battle
- Comment:
Pbritti (talk) 22:25, 6 December 2024 (UTC).
- Starting review--Kevmin § 19:29, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Qvadriga
- ... that the 2014 chariot racing video game Qvadriga was inspired by the 1979 board game Circus Maximus?
hahnchen 00:04, 6 December 2024 (UTC).
- This is my first DYK review so let me know if I made a mistake. QPQ has been done. Article long enough (5032 characters), images licensed correctly, Earwig null results, article is well-referenced and presentable. Hook is verified and cited to a reliable primary source. However, I do not think the hook is interesting. Why should regular reader care that a video game is inspired by another board game? Ca talk to me! 02:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks, the reason I chose this hook is because there's a large gap in between the board game and the video game. I thought it was interesting to show the board game's legacy. I can suggest other hooks which refer to chariot racing, like the forty-three hippodromes and circuses, but I felt that less interesting because they are all just presented from a top down view. - hahnchen 15:22, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
George Bogaars
- ... that Singaporean bureaucrat George Bogaars was one of the first two students to receive a Master of Arts from the University of Malaya?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Eastern Venus and Template:Did you know nominations/Sun Haven (video game)
KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:59, 2 December 2024 (UTC).
- Not a review but this is not an interesting hook IMO. The fact that a bureaucrat was one of first two to receive a degree from a particular university says nothing about his importance or achievements and doesn't entice me to click to find out more about him. Surely there must be something more interesting? Cbl62 (talk) 21:40, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- Good point, how about ALT1 ... that as head of Singapore's Secret Branch, George Bogaars oversaw the detention of more than a hundred suspected communist sympathisers? KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 01:03, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
---|
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
---|
|
Hook eligibility:
- Cited: - See below
- Interesting:
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Good sounding article that was made within a week of nominating, is well sourced, and is good on plagiarism according to copyvio (this is assuming good faith for some sources that I can't access without a URL). The original hook as pointed out wasn't really interesting for such an interesting article, so ALT1 is definitely the better option. My one concern comes from the hooks citing, which after comparing with a digital copy of the cited news clipping, says that 114 were arrested, not 113. Minor, but still something that should be fixed before passing, which I'm happy to do after. Cheers! Johnson524 08:01, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- This caught my eye, so I had a quick look.. There is a degree of disagreement among sources, so it may be best to say '..over 100' rather a precise number: one contemporary source noted that 107 were detained initially ([[46]]), and others refer to 'more than 100' [[47]], [[48]], or a total of 133 by the end of the year (page 3, in [[49]]). Happy to drop these references into the article, if you want to tweak the hook. Chaiten1 (talk) 07:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi all, I was aware of the discrepancy but didn't think it was necessary to throw about a bunch of numbers, so I just deferred to the number given in our own article (which happens to be the "official" number provided by the government). It's true that the cited source does say 114, so I don't mind changing it to that too. Best would be to clarify on the main Operation Coldstore page itself, the exact number doesn't make or break G.B.'s article. Also @John appreciate the thoughtfulness but I'm wary of hyperlinking to NLB's site. Per their T&Cs: "...You also may not, without the permission of NLB DIGITAL LIBRARY, insert a hyperlink to this website on any other website or "mirror" any Material contained on this website on any other server. NLB DIGITAL LIBRARY and its affiliates respect the intellectual property of others." Probably not very enforceable but I thought we ought to respect it all the same. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- For now I have followed Chaiten's advice and tweaked the hook to read "more than a hundred". Many thanks KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hi all, I was aware of the discrepancy but didn't think it was necessary to throw about a bunch of numbers, so I just deferred to the number given in our own article (which happens to be the "official" number provided by the government). It's true that the cited source does say 114, so I don't mind changing it to that too. Best would be to clarify on the main Operation Coldstore page itself, the exact number doesn't make or break G.B.'s article. Also @John appreciate the thoughtfulness but I'm wary of hyperlinking to NLB's site. Per their T&Cs: "...You also may not, without the permission of NLB DIGITAL LIBRARY, insert a hyperlink to this website on any other website or "mirror" any Material contained on this website on any other server. NLB DIGITAL LIBRARY and its affiliates respect the intellectual property of others." Probably not very enforceable but I thought we ought to respect it all the same. Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 10:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
For the now-edited ALT1. Also, good find on those T&C, I'd never heard of this before! Johnson524 13:53, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Not sure why the bot didn't pick this acceptance yet, so trying again:
- Reviewers and editor agree on ALT1 as it currently stands: this hook is verified by the cited sources, and is cited appropriately in the article. All other aspects are fine: QPQ, length and newness, and tone. Good to go! Chaiten1 (talk) 13:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
Tellus (app)
- ... that even though California-based company Tellus does not possess a banking license, it offers non-FDIC-insured interest-bearing demand deposit accounts to consumers? Source: Barron's 1
- ALT1: ... that 68% of funds lent by Tellus between April and December 2023 were given to affiliates of one real estate investment firm to invest in Silicon Valley housing? Source: Barron's 2
- ALT2: ... that California-based startup Tellus pivoted from being a property management app to a consumer-facing financial services company? Source: Barron's 1
- ALT3: ... that while Tellus packages together cash from multiple consumer depositors to make real estate loans, and is not FDIC-insured, it states that it does not offer mortgage-backed securities to consumers? Source: TechCrunch
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Cherry on Top (Bini song) Template:Did you know nominations/Dithapelo Keorapetse
- Comment: QPQs completed.
— Red-tailed hawk (nest) 06:38, 1 December 2024 (UTC).
- This is not a review but rather than a comment, but ALT0 and ALT3 will probably have to be rejected due to both WP:DYKINT concerns (reliance on specialist terms that may not be easily understood by non-financial savvy readers, especially outside the US) and for also sounding rather promotional. ALT2 might be the only suitable option at this point. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:44, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
- I understand how one could read Alt0 to be promotional (though I disagree and don’t see why non-insured demand deposit accounts are appealing but for their higher rates, which isn’t in the hook). But I’m really not sure how Alt3 could be seen that way—it’s highlighting that they don't purport to offer mortgage-backed securities even though they make what appears (to at least some professors cited in the body) be some sort of securitized loan offering without registration. That being said, I do take your point that people who don’t know much about managing their finances through investment could find these two hooks’ nuances hard to understand.Separately, I had been considering a book about the mysterious non-existent partnerships with banks that are mentioned in the article and were the subject of Senate scrutiny, but I couldn’t figure out a way to write it concisely in hook form without oversimplifying. I’ll take a crack at that over the next couple days with a clear head. — Red-tailed sock (Red-tailed hawk's nest) 16:10, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
Current nominations
editArticles created/expanded on December 2
editRecategorization
- ... that in 2003, Rwanda adopted a constitution that recategorized Rwandans of Hutu, Tutsi, and Twa ethnicities into one identity, banyarwanda?
- Source: Beyond Conflict and Spoilt Identities: How Rwandan Leaders Justify a Single Recategorization Model for Post-Conflict Reconciliation
Authored by Sigrun Marie Moss and published in the Journal of Social and Political Psychology in 2014. PDF available at: [50] Quotes: "Since 1994,the Rwandan government has attempted to remove the division of the population into the ‘ethnic’ groups (ubwoko) Hutu, Tutsi and Twa and instead encourage people to think of themselves only in terms of a common national Rwandan identity. This approach can be classified as recategorization of social identities– a process where subordinate identities are replaced with a shared or superordinate identity in order to improve intergroup relations." ...
"This comprehensive recategorization approach is based on a meta-narrative that essentialises Rwandan unity and de-essentialises ethnic identities, in a context where alternative narratives are not permitted. The 2003 constitution forbids genocide ideology, and a 2008 addition further limits identity discussions. These strict genocide ideology laws ban everything seen as divisionism, implying limited freedom of speech on topics of identity, political power and representation."- Reviewed:
Paradox38 (talk) 19:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on December 3
editAnthony E. Wills
- ... that it was only after his death at a relatively young age that several of Anthony E. Wills's plays were adapted into films?
- Alt1 ... that films were made of plays written by Anthony E. Wills (pictured) after his death at a relatively young age?
- Sources: Youth at time of death in 1912- "Anthony E. Willis Dies". Billboard. Vol. 24, no. 31. August 3, 1912. p. 6.
"Despite his youth, Mr Wills had gained considerable of a reputation as an author and producer."
- Vitagraph Studios obtaining film rights in 1913 after his death: "Film Co. Feeling Around; Trying Hard to Be Friendly". Variety. 30 (12): 8. May 23, 1913.
- Two film reviews: ""Our Wives"". The Moving Picture World. 18 (1): 49. October 4, 1913., "Empire". Bridgeport Evening Farmer. June 23, 1913. p. 8.
- A third film covered in Erish, Andrew A. (2021). Vitagraph: America's First Great Motion Picture Studio. University Press of Kentucky. ISBN 9780813181219.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Pem Nem, Template:Did you know nominations/Peri Alypias
- Comment: Moved into main space on December 3, 2024 at 17:32.
4meter4 (talk) 02:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
2024 attack on the Bangladesh Assistant High Commission in India
- ... that a Bangladeshi diplomatic mission in India was attacked by Hindu extremists affiliated to Vishva Hindu Parishad, protesting the arrest of a Hindu monk?
- Reviewed:
Za-ari-masen (talk) 15:01, 4 December 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on December 4
editAl-Moghraqa
- ... that terracotta cones found at al-Moghraqa in Palestine are unique in the region but resemble artefacts from Ancient Egypt?
- Source: "These artefacts are unique amongst the cultural assemblages of the Levant and are most closely paralleled by Egyptian funerary cones of the Eighteenth Dynasty from Thebes": Steel, Louise; Manley, Bill; Clarke, Joanne; Sadeq, Moain (2004b). "Egyptian 'Funerary Cones' from El-Moghraqa, Gaza". The Antiquaries Journal. 84: 319. doi:10.1017/S0003581500045856.
Richard Nevell (talk) 19:29, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Good Gravy! (roller coaster)
- ... that Good Gravy!, a roller coaster themed to Thanksgiving dinner, was first tested with a train full of stuffed turkeys?
- ALT1: ... that riders on Good Gravy!, a roller coaster themed to Thanksgiving dinner, pass through a tunnel made of a giant cranberry sauce can? Source: "As the train races along, it will pass through a colossal cranberry jelly can"
- ALT2: ... that riders on Good Gravy!, a roller coaster themed to Thanksgiving dinner, pass by a 20-foot-tall (6.1 m) whisk? Source: "As the train races along, it will ... narrowly dodge towering kitchen utensils, including a 20-foot-tall whisk"
- Reviewed:
Plighting Engineerd (talk) 05:25, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
1st Separate Airborne Brigade
- ... that a brigade of Russian paratroopers served under NATO command in the 1990s?
- Source: Kipp, Jacob W.; Warren, Tarn (2003). "The Russian Separate Airborne Brigade – Peacekeeping in Bosnia-Herzegovina". In Mackinlay, John; Cross, Peter (eds.). Regional peacekeepers: The paradox of Russian peacekeeping (PDF). Tokyo: United Nations University. pp. 49–50. ISBN 92-808-1079-0.
- ALT1: ... that a brigade of Russian paratroopers took part in a NATO-led peacekeeping mission during the 1990s? Source: Kipp, Jacob W.; Warren, Tarn (2003). "The Russian Separate Airborne Brigade – Peacekeeping in Bosnia-Herzegovina". In Mackinlay, John; Cross, Peter (eds.). Regional peacekeepers: The paradox of Russian peacekeeping (PDF). Tokyo: United Nations University. pp. 49–50. ISBN 92-808-1079-0.
- ALT2: ... that Russia contributed an airborne brigade to a NATO-led peacekeeping mission in former Yugoslavia? Source: Kipp, Jacob W.; Warren, Tarn (2003). "The Russian Separate Airborne Brigade – Peacekeeping in Bosnia-Herzegovina". In Mackinlay, John; Cross, Peter (eds.). Regional peacekeepers: The paradox of Russian peacekeeping (PDF). Tokyo: United Nations University. pp. 49–50. ISBN 92-808-1079-0.
- Reviewed:
Romanov loyalist (talk) 21:29, 5 December 2024 (UTC).
Ly Singko
... that Ly Singko—who had been raised in a Catholic household and worked for the Kuomintang's news agency—was imprisoned under Singapore's Internal Security Act for "glamourising the communist system"?
KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 07:13, 5 December 2024 (UTC).
- At the moment, I'm unsure if I will give this a full review or not, so for now this is just an inquiry: I'm really not sure what the connection is between her growing up in a Catholic household and working for the Kuomintang, to the primary hook fact (the "glamourising" aspect). I understand that there's supposed to be a contrast between the allegation despite him being involved with the Kuomintang, but I suspect that readers will not immediately get the connection. More importantly, the part seems to add unnecessary complexity to the hook: just saying he was imprisoned for "glamourising" should suffice per WP:DYKTRIM since that fact itself is already interesting and the part doesn't seem essential to the hook fact. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:18, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- I just realized that the hook is 198 characters, or just a hair below the 200-character limit, so it definitely needs trimming. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:40, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
- At least a hundred other suspected communist sympathisers were imprisoned during this period, but I thought what made this especially interesting was that he (not she!!) was Catholic and had worked for the Kuomintang's news agency. The irony should be quite obvious (or so I thought)... And if something is under the limit, albeit just by 2 characters, shouldn't it technically still be permissible? 😅 (As opposed to being 2 characters over...) KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 12:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Kingoflettuce: As mentioned per above, per WP:DYKTRIM, excessive detail and facts should be removed if they are not essential to the hook fact. According to the old rules (and also continued in spirit in the current guidelines), hooks slightly below the 200 character limit can still be rejected per editor discretion. Actually, I've gone ahead and struck it, so a new hook is needed. As for the misgendering, I apologize: the pronouns are now fixed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Well yeah but as I said I thought the details weren't excessive, rather they REALLY added to the "interestingness" of the charges. It'd be like if a Jan 6 participant was found to be a dedicated ActBlue donor or something. Oh well. I sure hope it's not just me who finds the irony much too obvious though! KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 14:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- I did a bit of a mini-survey on Discord and all the responses said the original hook was too complex or detailed, so it wasn't just I who had similar views. In any case, please propose a new hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Sure that's fine, how about ..."... that Chinese-language newspaper columnist Ly Singko was imprisoned for "glamourising the communist system"? Cheers, KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 04:25, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
- I did a bit of a mini-survey on Discord and all the responses said the original hook was too complex or detailed, so it wasn't just I who had similar views. In any case, please propose a new hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 22:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Well yeah but as I said I thought the details weren't excessive, rather they REALLY added to the "interestingness" of the charges. It'd be like if a Jan 6 participant was found to be a dedicated ActBlue donor or something. Oh well. I sure hope it's not just me who finds the irony much too obvious though! KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 14:31, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Kingoflettuce: As mentioned per above, per WP:DYKTRIM, excessive detail and facts should be removed if they are not essential to the hook fact. According to the old rules (and also continued in spirit in the current guidelines), hooks slightly below the 200 character limit can still be rejected per editor discretion. Actually, I've gone ahead and struck it, so a new hook is needed. As for the misgendering, I apologize: the pronouns are now fixed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- At least a hundred other suspected communist sympathisers were imprisoned during this period, but I thought what made this especially interesting was that he (not she!!) was Catholic and had worked for the Kuomintang's news agency. The irony should be quite obvious (or so I thought)... And if something is under the limit, albeit just by 2 characters, shouldn't it technically still be permissible? 😅 (As opposed to being 2 characters over...) KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 12:43, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- I just realized that the hook is 198 characters, or just a hair below the 200-character limit, so it definitely needs trimming. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:40, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on December 5
editMawali (tribe)
- ... that the Mawali tribe dominated the Syrian steppe until the 18th century, when they were driven out to the Hama and Idlib regions, where their descendants remain to the present day?
- Source: *Douwes, Dick (2000). The Ottomans in Syria: A History of Justice and Oppression, pp. 27, 31-32
- Dukhan, Haian (2019). State and Tribes in Syria: Informal Alliances and Conflict Patterns, p. 1878
- Reviewed:
- Comment: QPQ Pending
Al Ameer (talk) 18:19, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Katerina Clark
- ... that Australian academic Katerina Clark received a letter where her friend, actress Miriam Margolyes, came out as lesbian? Source: It was through Katerina, a brilliant academic who is professor of Russian comparative literature at Yale, that Margolyes met her partner, Heather, also an Australian academic. Margolyes wrote to Katerina to inform her that she had “become a gay woman, a lesbian!”, and received a letter back saying how interesting, that she knew one too who was studying at Yale. They were introduced and have been together since.
- ALT1: ... that actress Miriam Margolyes came out as lesbian in a letter to Australian academic Katerina Clark? Source: Same as ALT0
- ALT2: ... that Australian academic Katerina Clark introduced her former schoolmate Heather Sutherland to the latter's future partner, actress Miriam Margolyes? Source: "On one European trip in 1968, she introduced Margolyes, already a prominent actor, to an old Canberra school friend, Heather Sutherland, a specialist in Indonesian studies and later a professor at the Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam, in the Netherlands. The two became lifetime partners."
- ALT3: ... that Australian academic Katerina Clark introduced actress Miriam Margolyes to the latter's future partner, historian Heather Sutherland? Source: Same as ALT2
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Pula Nikolao Pula (two articles)
ミラP@Miraclepine 16:37, 8 December 2024 (UTC).
Josie Brown Childs
- ... that community activist Josie Brown Childs had the title of "Matriarch of the Movement"?
- ALT1: ... that community activist Josie Brown Childs organized the 16th Annual Duke Ellington Conference in 1998, which included the first performance of his musical "My People" since its 1963 premiere? Source: https://bmrc.lib.uchicago.edu/portal/view/?id=BMRC.HARSH.CHILDS.xml
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Chrystal (musician) and Template:Did you know nominations/Trey McKenney
SL93 (talk) 02:49, 8 December 2024 (UTC).
- Comment. Not a review, but in examining the article it relies heavily on primary materials. The History Makers source should probably directly link to the interview transcript (https://www.thehistorymakers.org/sites/default/files/A2013_248_EAD.pdf) and give credit to Larry Crowe as the interviewer. I would consider this a primary source. I added an independent obituary with a byline but it consisted mostly of quotes so I'm not sure how independent that is either. The Black Metropolis Research Consortium source should be replaced with the original at https://www.chipublib.org/fa-josie-brown-childs-papers/ These papers are housed at the the Chicago Public Library, Vivian G. Harsh Research Collection, Woodson Regional library and were processed/compiled by Elizabeth Loch and Emily Minehart who should be attributed as the authors/compilers of the file. Unfortunately neither of these two biographies have a named authors and they both have close attachments to primary materials (one being principally an interview with the subject with an attached non-bylined biography, and the other papers donated by the subject housed at a library with again a non by-lined biography). It's not clear how independent these sources are from Childs, although I don't doubt they are accurate. The article is also not compliant with MOS:CHRONOLOGICAL. I do think this person is notable, I'm just not certain if the sources currently in the article clearly demonstrate WP:SIGCOV which is a concern for promoting this to the main page.4meter4 (talk) 03:03, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- 4meter4 As for chronological, are you only referring to the death being mentioned under the personal life and death section? SL93 (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SL93 Yes. Biographies should be presented in chronological order; ending with a person's death and maybe a legacy section covering after death significance if appropriate. Generally an "early life and education" section opens an article. Then a "career section". Then a "later life" section which includes a person's death as well as activities in retirement. If possible, it's best to interweave personal life information into the article's other sections and not separate it out in order to maintain chronological presentation. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- 4meter4 I did that with a death section until the point that editors whined about me having a short section with a few sentences or less. That caused me to not include death details in their own section for a few years up until you saying something about it. SL93 (talk) 03:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- How do these sources look? - [51], [52], [53], and [54]. SL93 (talk) 03:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SL93 I'll look at the sources and get back to you shortly on that point. It is true that short subsections are also problematic under WP:MOS guidelines. If there isn't enough content for a later life section, it's perfectly fine to have a single "Career and later life" subheading. You can bundle topics under one section. Likewise the opposite is true when writing on a person where there is more detail. In those cases you can extrapolate out more diverse subheadings if/when it is appropriate. There is flexibility to expand, remove, and combine subheadings as long you follow both the general MOS and the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography guidelines. Every article isn't going to look the same, but biographies do need to present content in chronological order as much as possible. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SL93 I think those sources look great, and would do a lot to help demonstrate SIGCOV. Please take the time to work those into the article, and also please make the adjustments to the extant sources that I mentioned above if you haven't already. Doing all of that should prevent any notability issues being raised while it is on the main page. The main thing is we don't want an article to get pulled when it is on the main page at DYK because somebody decides to take it to AFD. It's not a good look for the project. Having a good number of by-lined sources helps prevent that. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. I will leave a note here once I'm done. SL93 (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SL93 I think those sources look great, and would do a lot to help demonstrate SIGCOV. Please take the time to work those into the article, and also please make the adjustments to the extant sources that I mentioned above if you haven't already. Doing all of that should prevent any notability issues being raised while it is on the main page. The main thing is we don't want an article to get pulled when it is on the main page at DYK because somebody decides to take it to AFD. It's not a good look for the project. Having a good number of by-lined sources helps prevent that. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SL93 I'll look at the sources and get back to you shortly on that point. It is true that short subsections are also problematic under WP:MOS guidelines. If there isn't enough content for a later life section, it's perfectly fine to have a single "Career and later life" subheading. You can bundle topics under one section. Likewise the opposite is true when writing on a person where there is more detail. In those cases you can extrapolate out more diverse subheadings if/when it is appropriate. There is flexibility to expand, remove, and combine subheadings as long you follow both the general MOS and the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography guidelines. Every article isn't going to look the same, but biographies do need to present content in chronological order as much as possible. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:42, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @SL93 Yes. Biographies should be presented in chronological order; ending with a person's death and maybe a legacy section covering after death significance if appropriate. Generally an "early life and education" section opens an article. Then a "career section". Then a "later life" section which includes a person's death as well as activities in retirement. If possible, it's best to interweave personal life information into the article's other sections and not separate it out in order to maintain chronological presentation. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:17, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
I wasn't reviewing so someone else can review this. Best.4meter4 (talk) 03:52, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Thomas Fenner (sea captain)
- ... that Thomas Fenner was an Elizabethan era sea captain who commanded an English warship during the Spanish Armada?
- Source: Loades, David (2008). "Fenner, Thomas". Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (online ed.). Oxford University Press. doi:10.1093/ref:odnb/9290. (Subscription or UK public library membership required.)
4meter4 (talk) 01:10, 8 December 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on December 6
editThe House of Bijapur
- ... that The House of Bijapur (pictured) has been called a "painted curtain call" since the dynasty it depicts was overthrown only a few years later?
- Source: Hutton, Deborah (2016). "Memory and Monarchy: A Seventeenth-Century Painting from Bijapur and its Afterlives". South Asian Studies. 32 (1): 22–41. ISSN 0266-6030.
Thus, within a few years of the paintings completion, the sultanate it celebrated was gone. Stuart Cary Welch, in characteristically evocative prose, called the work ' a painted curtain call ': the main characters appearing together for one last ovation before the play ended and the stage went dark.
- ALT1: ... that The House of Bijapur (pictured) depicts eight members of the Adil Shahi dynasty? Source: Hutton, Deborah (2016). "Memory and Monarchy: A Seventeenth-Century Painting from Bijapur and its Afterlives". South Asian Studies. 32 (1): 22–41. ISSN 0266-6030.
it is larger than most manuscript paintings), its arresting lavender and saffron landscape, and its subject matter: it depicts eight rulers of the ʿAdil Shahi dynasty seated together on a carpet. Technically, it is not all of the ʿAdil Shahi rulers, as the artists left out the unfortunate Mallū ʿĀdil Khān(r. 1534–35), who ruled for a mere seven months before he was deposed.
- Reviewed:
AmateurHi$torian (talk) 15:47, 8 December 2024 (UTC).
Saxophone sonata (Creston)
- ... that the publishing of Paul Creston's saxophone sonata was delayed by a "rat with a toothbrush mustache"? Source: Morris, Willie (1996). The Development of the Saxophone Compositions of Paul Creston (DMA thesis). University of Missouri–Kansas City. OCLC 35239809. p 118. As quoted in article.
- Reviewed:
- Comment: Can supply other hooks if need be :)
UpTheOctave! • 8va? 19:22, 6 December 2024 (UTC).
2025 San Diego FC season
- ... that San Diego FC sent their first players on loan until their inaugural season began? Source: ESPN
- Reviewed: [[]]
- Comment: If possible, hold until the MLS regular season begins on February 23, 2025.
SounderBruce 05:16, 6 December 2024 (UTC).
- @SounderBruce: just a heads-up that you'll need to complete two QPQ reviews for this to proceed. Chaiten1 (talk) 08:19, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- This is a preliminary review as I'm still awaiting the QPQs. For now, there are a few issues. One is that the hook cannot be held until February 23, as that is far beyond the six weeks limit for special occasion hooks (six weeks after December 6 is January 17, 2025). Second, the hook as currently written is marginally interesting especially to non-football/soccer fans (a non-football fan might not understand the intricacies of player loans), so my suggestion is to propose additional hooks. The full review will follow once the QPQs have been provided and new hooks have been proposed. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:54, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Prius Missile
- ... that the Toyota Prius has been witnessed crashed so frequently it was referred as a missile?
- ALT1: ... that the Toyota Prius has been referred to a missile? Source: https://www.nextage.jp/model_guide/toyota/315383/
- Reviewed:
- Comment: I don't have negative intents against the vehicle, but the original may be a bit negative, so I have a more neutral ALT here as well. The name literally says "Prius Missile", so I thought this was a WP:BLUE situation, but I guess something is needed as a bare minimum.
ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 02:09, 6 December 2024 (UTC).
- Comment: @AlphaBetaGamma: Thanks for such an interesting article. I'm from California but I live in Hawaii. Both states have a lot of Priuses, so I was pretty confused by your hook when I read it, because in those two states, the Prius is not really known for crashes. (The joke around these parts is that it's usually a Nissan, but it's not exactly clear why that is). I read your article, and I see that it is mostly about a phenomenon in Japan involving older drivers, which makes a lot of sense and is quite interesting. I think this is the kind of hook (ALT0) that shocks readers (like myself) and increases traffic to your article, but I also wonder if it is somewhat misleading since the hook itself doesn't mention Japan or older drivers. In any case, it's a great hook, but I wonder if it is legit to shock the reader like this. If it is, it's highly effective and would probably get a lot of traffic. I'm not sure if we can trick readers like this, so I will ping a few people and see what they say: @Launchballer and RoySmith: Thanks. ABG, you are also missing the word "as" in ALT1. Viriditas (talk) 10:23, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
This seems like click bait. I wouldn't run it. RoySmith (talk) 13:59, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- @RoySmith: Thank you, that was one of my concerns. My other question is where is the red line? In other words, some of our most successful hooks approach clickbait, wouldn't you agree? How do you know when you've crossed that line? For me, this hook crosses it, as it doesn't let the reader know that the Prius is only considered accident prone in Japan due to the demographic of older drivers. Perhaps, if it just stopped there, it would be fine, but it doesn't. Reading further, we discover this is just a slang term, and that official data shows that Priuses are no more accident prone than other vehicles, which is what I suspected from the jump. For this reason, I am leaning into crossing out ALT0. Viriditas (talk) 21:15, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Review
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral: - ?
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
- Other problems: - Rage-baiting, clickbait
QPQ: None required. |
Overall: Article is new enough and long enough and moved from draft to mainspace. Earwig shows no issues. It's not clear if the nominator is the author of the original article, which was created on ja.wikipedia in mid 2021. If not, I believe you're supposed to attribute when you copy over the material as a translation in your first edit, but you just wrote "start draft". In any case, you've got a fully formed, well written article over at ja, yet you only copied over (or wrote) a minor version of it here. I don't get why you did that. The current version here on en.wikipedia needs copyedits. However, I would encourage you to return to the ja article and import the majority of it back over here, as it makes much more sense and covers the entire topic in a comprehensive manner. As for your hooks, ALT0 is ragebait (see the discussion above), and you got me good! I was genuinely upset as to why the beloved Prius (official car of liberals in the US) was associated with crashes! I clicked so fast and hard that smoke came out of my mouse. It was then that I realized, I had been fooled. More so when I check the original article on ja. Then there's the image of the crashed vehicle. I recall seeing that image before, and I think it's from California. Have you considered using Japan-related images? So, you've got a lot of issues to deal with here, but I can walk you through them. First things first, why not copy over the entire article from ja? It's really well done and would clear up a great many things. Viriditas (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC) Viriditas (talk) 21:51, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- Not really, the paragraph
Extended content
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According to Masaki Kubota [ja], the viral spread of the slang and the creation of the Prius's public image as a crash-prone car is thought to be caused by the extremely large amount of the car in use, the car being popular among older drivers, older drivers usually being overconfident in their driving skills, and the Prius's significance as a well-known car brand.
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Covered the entire "原因" paragraph. Not too sure how much I should cover beyond that. I hope the next ALT is more informing, because the lack of information causing "click bait" seems to be the issue here. ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 22:12, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- ALT2: ...that the Toyota Prius driven by older people in Japan has been referred to a missile?
- IMO, "referred to a missile" doesn't really work in English. Also, try rearranging your primary link so that it comes first; that tends to increase views. You may also want to work in the fact that this is a slang term or a meme, as that isn't made clear. As for the main ja article, I'm not clear on the disconnect based on your response. There's a lot of content in that article that didn't find its way here, and it more accurately describes the topic.[55] Viriditas (talk) 22:24, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on December 7
editThomas P. Fenner
- ... that the first women's dorm built at Hampton University was paid for through money earned by the school's choir in tours led by Thomas P. Fenner (pictured)?
- Source: "Hampton Choir to Sing in Boston". Bay State Banner. March 12, 1970.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Grid energy storage, Template:Did you know nominations/Abortion in Mauritius
- Comment: Moved to mainspace on December 7
4meter4 (talk) 15:41, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Aquilegia gegica, Aquilegia colchica
- ... that Aquilegia gegica and Aquilegia colchica, two species of columbine native to the Caucasus, can produce fertile offspring?
- Source: "Biological Peculiarities of F1 Generation of Hybrids of Two Georgian Endemic Species Aquilegia colchica Kem.-Nath. and Aquilegia gegica Jabr.-Kolak". Bulletin of the Georgian National Academy of Sciences. 15 (2). 2021.
- Reviewed: 1.) Template:Did you know nominations/Rescatemos a David y Miguel, 2.) Template:Did you know nominations/Pokémon Scarlet and Violet, 3.) Template:Did you know nominations/Dear Jinri, 4.) Template:Did you know nominations/Hanta Road
Pbritti (talk) 01:09, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Articles created/expanded on December 8
editTed Weiss Federal Building
- ... that New York City's Ted Weiss Federal Building was built next to an African burial ground? Source: Stern, Robert A. M.; Fishman, David; Tilove, Jacob (2006). New York 2000: Architecture and Urbanism Between the Bicentennial and the Millennium. New York: Monacelli Press. p. 307.
- ALT1: ... that a pavilion next to New York City's Ted Weiss Federal Building was canceled due to human remains? Source: Stern, Fishman & Tilove 2006, p. 307.
- ALT2: ... that New York City's Ted Weiss Federal Building, located next to an African burial ground, was named for a white American? Source: English, Merle (October 22, 2003). "Building's Name Draws Uproar / Critics: Title Should Reflect Historical Site". Newsday. p. A15.
- ALT3: ... that there was controversy over the name of New York City's Ted Weiss Federal Building because of its namesake's race? Source: English, Merle (October 22, 2003). "Building's Name Draws Uproar / Critics: Title Should Reflect Historical Site". Newsday. p. A15.
- ALT4: ... that during the construction of New York City's Ted Weiss Federal Building, local residents protested that not enough Asians were being hired for the project? Source: Kreitman, Matthew (July 14, 1992). "Chinatown Fights Injustice". South China Morning Post. p. 54.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tin mining in Indonesia and Template:Did you know nominations/Tomato Industrial Museum D. Nomikos
- Comment: Thanks to User:Pretzelles, who helped me with two of the hooks.
Epicgenius (talk) 17:30, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
The Man Who Knew Too Much (Alexander McQueen collection)
- ... that when Alexander McQueen, following years of criticism for over-reliance on runway spectacles, presented The Man Who Knew Too Much (Autumn/Winter 2005), it was criticised for its lack of theatrics? Source: Judith Watt, Alexander McQueen: The Life and the Legacy, p 224 & Kate Bethune, Encyclopedia of Collections, p 316 (neither available on GBooks but screencaps emailed on request)
♠PMC♠ (talk) 03:31, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Fictional planets of the Solar System
- ... that fictional planets of the Solar System include a planet inside the orbit of Mercury, Counter-Earth, and a destroyed planet between Mars and Jupiter (schematic diagram of orbits pictured)?
- Source: See the sections "Vulcan", "Counter-Earth", and "Phaëton" in the article.
- ALT1: ... that fictional planets of the Solar System include planets between Venus and Earth, planets on the inside of a hollow Earth, and a planet "behind the Earth"? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=PbMdeizaCNcC&pg=PA539
- ALT2: ... that fictional planets of the Solar System (examples pictured) have been depicted since the 1700s? Source: Many other additional planets were hypothesised in fiction and speculative nonfiction from the eighteenth century onwards.
- ALT3: ... that planets that do not exist (examples pictured) have appeared in fiction since the 1700s? Source: Many other additional planets were hypothesised in fiction and speculative nonfiction from the eighteenth century onwards.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Fictional religion & Template:Did you know nominations/Drone congregation area
- Comment: ALT2 and ALT3 are different phrasings of the same basic hook. I can come up with more hooks if none of these strike the reviewer's fancy.
TompaDompa (talk) 00:29, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Aquilegia moorcroftiana
- ... that Aquilegia moorcroftiana is named after a mountaineer and is found at the highest elevation of any species of columbine?
- Source: Nold, Robert (2003). Columbines: Aquilegia, Paraquilegia, and Semiaquilegia. Portland, OR: Timber Press. ISBN 0881925888.
- Reviewed: 1.) Template:Did you know nominations/Man of Smoke, 2.) Template:Did you know nominations/Skin of My Teeth
- Comment:
Pbritti (talk) 00:27, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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|
Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
- Other problems: - I would suggest changing the sentence in the article "named for William Moorcroft" to "named after William Moorcroft" to make the wording clearer, and likewise for the hook.
QPQ: Done. |
Overall: This is my first review so I would like a second opinion. jolielover♥talk 16:02, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Jolielover: Thanks for the review—how fun that this was your first. Welcome to the club! I think that "named for" is an Americanism and "named after" is the preference in British English; as the most relevant Engvars in this case would be British, Pakistani, or Indian English, I've adopted the suggested phrasing. By my estimation, I think your review is decent, but let me know if you want any clarifications! ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:33, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Articles created/expanded on December 9
editJames Alexander Ulio
- ... that during World War II, US Army casualty telegrams (example pictured) were sent out in the name of Major General James Alexander Ulio? Source: Mesches, Alan E. (2020). Major General James A. Ulio: Winning World War II from a Desk. Philadelphia: Casemate Publishers. ISBN 978-1-61200-826-4. OCLC 1227652141, pp.23-24
Hawkeye7 (discuss) 19:31, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Cancer (song)
- ... that the My Chemical Romance song "Cancer" was written in eight minutes?
- Source: https://www.altpress.com/my-chemical-romance-the-black-parade-facts-trivia/ "...it’s simple to assume that the heart-wrenching “Cancer” took a length of time to craft... In fact, that process took Gerard and producer Rob Cavallo about eight minutes."
- ALT1: ... that "Cancer" was Gerard Way's attempt to write the "darkest song ever"? Source: https://www.nme.com/news/music/my-chemical-romance-135-1349066 "Speaking about the track ’Cancer’ in a statement, Way said that he wanted to write “the darkest song ever.” "
- Reviewed:
Leafy46 (talk) 18:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Boneghazi
- ... that one Tumblr user cursed another for stealing bones to use in curses?
- Source: Tourjée 2016
- Reviewed: MV Spirit of Norfolk and General Electric Showcase House
- Comment: expecting a ghazillion wikicup points when the next competition starts, please and thank you
theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 07:36, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
Papa (2024 film)
- ... that the film Papa uses a nonlinear narrative to replicate how human memories function?
- Source: [1]
- ALT1: ... that multiple scenes in Papa feature cotton tree flowers, even though it was not scripted and the falling cotton simply kept drifting into the shot? Source: [2]
- ALT2: ... that the director chose not to shoot Papa in Tsuen Wan, where the murder that inspired the film occurred, to avoid bringing back tragic memories for the residents? Source: [3]
- ALT3: ... that Papa employs a 4:3 aspect ratio to create the sensation of a home video? Source: [4]
- ALT4: ... that to prepare for her role in Papa, Jo Koo learned Hakka from the director's cousin? Source: [5]
- ALT5: ... that Papa initially struggled with a lack of funding because its title was considered "not commercial enough"? Source: [6]
- ALT6: ... that the film Papa is based on a real-life murder that occurred in 2010? Source: [7]
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Dickinson pumpkin
- Comment: Second QPQ: Template:Did you know nominations/Kingdom of Characters. Expanded from 544 words/3,271 characters (Special:Diff/1261716053) to 2,872 words/17,229 characters (Special:Diff/1262019700).
Prince of Erebor(The Book of Mazarbul) 05:36, 9 December 2024 (UTC).
- ^ Chak, Ashlyn (3 December 2024). "How Lau Ching-wan added subtlety to complex role as father of a killer in new film Papa". South China Morning Post. Retrieved 8 December 2024.
The film is notable for its non-linear storytelling. "When you think back on [your past]," says Lau, "it's as if your memory has been rearranged. Like when someone sneaks a photo of you and you don't think it looks like you. It's quite magical." On the other hand, Yung thinks it is simply how memories work in the human brain. "Memory does not function linearly and can be in pieces," he says. "There is beauty in it – something will trigger you to [enter] another dimension in an abstract departure that is very much a stream of consciousness."
- ^ Chak, Ashlyn (3 December 2024). "How Lau Ching-wan added subtlety to complex role as father of a killer in new film Papa". South China Morning Post. Retrieved 8 December 2024.
Along with Lau's tear-inducing performance, cotton tree flowers – omnipresent in spring in Hong Kong – have an important cameo role throughout Papa as a thread connecting its many fragmented flashbacks. However, they were not a part of the script. It just so happened that they were in blossom during filming. They "kept coming back into the shot", Yung says, and when he researched the symbolic meaning of cotton-tree flowers, it sent chills down his spine. "It was 'cherish the person in front of you'."
- ^ 凌梓鎏 (2 December 2024). "奇案是偽命題 翁子光:疏理痛苦是一種救贖". Hong Kong Feature (in Chinese). Retrieved 8 December 2024.
不過,除了兒子殺人後逃往的荃灣海濱公園,翁子光依案情在實地拍攝,戲內其他荃灣畫面,大部分卻在土瓜灣取景的。「因為我不想影響荃灣街坊,不論他們八卦或有陰影,我去當區拍攝重提舊事,都不好。」
[However, aside from the Tsuen Wan Riviera Park , where the son fled after the murder, director Philip Yung filmed other scenes in Tsuen Wan primarily in To Kwa Wan. "I did not want to affect the residents of Tsuen Wan, whether they are gossiping or recalling tragic memories, it wouldn’t be good for me to film in the area and bring up old matters."] - ^ Yau, Bonnie (5 December 2024). "專訪電影《爸爸》主演劉青雲、導演翁子光,從最極端的悲劇,談最平常的無常". Vogue Hong Kong (in Chinese). Retrieved 9 December 2024.
他希望觀眾不易覺察攝影機的存在,還特易採用4:3的畫面,「這種平常的感覺好像看Home Video,甚至乎令你覺得不像是看大電影,很適合我們這部電影,好像在看別人家裏發生的事情。」
[[Yung] hopes that the audience will not easily notice the presence of the camera, which is why he chose a 4:3 aspect ratio. "This ordinary feeling makes it seem like you’re watching a home video, even giving you the sensation that it is not a feature film, which is perfect for our movie, as if you are witnessing events happening in someone else's household."] - ^ "爸爸專訪|谷祖琳演產子場面太入戲 劉青雲:真係擔心佢生咗個仔出嚟". am730 (in Chinese). 30 November 2024. Retrieved 9 December 2024.
谷祖琳在電影中操得一口流利客家話對白,原來她從來未接觸過客家話,因為導演是客家人,找來翁導的表姐,花了三天時間立即速成。
[Jo Koo delivers her lines in fluent Hakka in the film, but she had never encountered the language before. Since the director is Hakka, he brought in his cousin to teach her, and she learned it in just three days.] - ^ "劉青雲《爸爸》取材自荃灣倫常慘案 衝擊影帝之作 拆解喊位多過《破•地獄》之謎". Sing Tao Daily (in Chinese). 27 November 2024. Retrieved 6 December 2024.
《爸爸》片名本來不能用?上世紀90年代,香港的奇案電影多以獵奇角度出發。《踏血尋梅》(根據2008年援交少女肢解案作藍本改編)寫成劇本時,當時投資方提議《碎屍案》、《沙井女屍》、《人肉私鐘妹》等片名。《爸爸》也曾被指不夠商業化,苦尋投資者不果。
[The title Papa was originally not allowed? In the 1990s, Hong Kong's crime films often approached topics from a sensationalist angle. When writing the script for Port of Call (based on the 2008 case of a dismembered escort), the investors suggested titles such as The Dismemberment Case, The Body in a Sandy Well, and Human Flesh Sex Worker. [The title] "Papa" was also criticized for being not commercial enough, struggling to find investors as a result.] - ^ Lo, Zabrina (3 December 2024). "'Papa' star Sean Lau and director Philip Yung explore human emotions in a film based on true crime". Tatler Asia. Retrieved 9 December 2024.
Papa is based on the murder case that took place in Tsuen Wan in 2010, when a teenager who suffered from schizophrenia murdered his mother and sister before turning himself in.
Special occasion holding area
editThe holding area is near the top of the Approved page. Please only place approved templates there; do not place them below.
- Do not nominate articles in this section—nominate all articles in the nominations section above, under the date on which the article was created or moved to mainspace, or the expansion began; indicate in the nomination any request for a specially timed appearance on the main page.
- Note: Articles intended to be held for special occasion dates should be nominated within seven days of creation, start of expansion, or promotion to Good Article status. The nomination should be made at least one week prior to the occasion date, to allow time for reviews and promotions through the prep and queue sets, but not more than six weeks in advance. The proposed occasion must be deemed sufficiently special by reviewers. The timeline limitations, including the six week maximum, may be waived by consensus, if a request is made at WT:DYK, but requests are not always successful. Discussion clarifying the hold criteria can be found here: Hold criteria; discussion setting the six week limit can be found here: Six week limit.
- April Fools' Day hooks are exempted from the timeline limit; see Wikipedia:April Fool's Main Page/Did You Know.