Talk:The Triumph of the Farmer or Industry and Parasitism

Much work needed

This article is apparently quite misleading. After spending quite a bit of time trying to find a work by Tolstoy that's called "Toil" in English, it seems that he never wrote one. The article appears to be describing a text by Timofej Bondarev titled The Triumph of the Farmer or Industry and Parasitism (Torzhestvo zemledel'tsa ili Trudoljubie i Tunejadstvo).[1][2][3][4] Tolstoy attempted for years to get it published and wrote an introduction for it, but only abbreviated versions were published while Bondarev was alive. In 1890, the was translated into English at least twice, one of which was indeed called "Toil" and included "Leo Tolstoi"'s name.[5] However, the better known translation was called "Labor", and made it clear that this was "The Suppressed Book of the Peasant Bondareff", which was just "made known, augmented and edited" by "Lyof Tolstoi", not written by him. The full book was published in 1906 and finally became widely available after the revolution.
I plan on moving this article to a less misleading title, perhaps The Triumph of the Farmer or Industry and Parasitism as that name appears in two of the sources I have access to. I will also rewrite it to make it clear that it's a work of Bondarev, not Tolstoy.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:33, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Done.--Cúchullain ^t/c 20:56, 28 December 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 14 March 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move. Unanimous consensus. (non-admin closure) sst✈ 08:31, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

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Toil (Tolstoy book) → The Triumph of the Farmer or Industry and Parasitism – As I said above, it's readily apparent that the title is very misleading: the work isn't called "Toil", and it isn't by Tolstoy. This is pretty self evident after my rewrites, but the move has been challenged.
The book is actually by Timofei Bondarev and is titled Torzhestvo zemledel'tsa ili Trudoljubie i Tunejadstvo, which is rendered in English as The Triumph of the Farmer or Industry and Parasitism by two of the cited sources[6][7] (other related English translations can be found[8]). The "Toil" name and attribution to Tolstoy are errors; "Toil" comes from an obscure 1890 translation of a heavily abridged and edited version of the treatise; the better known early translation was published as "Labor". The full work wasn't published until 1906; modern sources rely on this and use the full name. In any event, the treatise was certainly written by Bondarev, Tolstoy just edited and wrote the introduction. Cúchullain ^t/c 14:51, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support - Nominator's arguments are very persuasive.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  15:22, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support, misleading title is misleading. Nice work bringing this to an RM. Randy Kryn 23:12, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support, per nom and Kryn. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 02:25, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

  I also oppose moving Toil without an independent RM as it is controversial. © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 02:56, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support @Randy Kryn: @Insertcleverphrasehere: move Toil to Toil (album) and move Toil (disambiguation) to baseline. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:45, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
  • Agreed, the album is not the primary topic either (there isn't one), so Toil should be the dab page.  InsertCleverPhraseHere  06:48, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, you're the one who challenged the move before. If you now agree with the move, can we just close the RM and move it? I can't imagine there will be other objections.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:05, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Part of the reason I challenged the move before was related the insistence of yourself and others that a non-charting celtic punk album be the main meaning of toil, so no if you don't mind, please leave it open until all the stupidity around the celtic punk album is resolved, thanks In ictu oculi (talk) 15:33, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

@Insertcleverphrasehere: unfortunately you have to make that comment at Talk:Toil (disambiguation) RM not here. Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 17:45, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

In ictu, that's a pretty poor reason to hold up an obviously necessary change.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• Support. The title of this article has nothing to do with the title of the album. sst✈ 12:14, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Pincrete (talk) 23:24, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.