Talk:Syphilis

What is a Hinton test?

Redirects here but not mentioned. Equinox ◑ 17:13, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

@Equinox, it was a more reliable test created by William Augustus Hinton. It's probably worth a brief mention. Alternatively, you could repoint the redirect to History of syphilis#History of diagnosis. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:29, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Origin in Europe or America?

The history section is confusing. It starts off by saying that it started in America:

> Paleopathologists have known for decades that syphilis was present in the Americas before European contact.

But then says that it was present in Europe before the voyages to America:

> In 2020, a group of leading paleopathologists concluded that enough evidence had been collected to prove that treponemal disease, almost certainly including syphilis, had existed in Europe prior to the voyages of Columbus.

So which one is it? If it's uncertain it should start of by saying that. 46.33.152.203 (talk) 01:10, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

It seems that the confusion is introduced by a lengthy attempt move the origins of the disease away from pre-Colombian Americas. This attempt in lengthy and convoluted, if not outright forcefully introduced (and, this is what introduces the confusion and doubt about American origin of the disease) is caused by lack of any proof that the disease did not originate in Americas. It is so much overly forced upon the reader that, I suspect the reason for introducing the hypothesis is extra scientific and could have something to do with politics of the disease in today's world. 174.94.111.33 (talk) 03:07, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 November 2023

change "This is believed to be partly due to increased sexual activity, increased prostitution, and decreased use of condoms."

to : "This is believed to be partly due to increased prostitution, and decreased use of condoms." as increased sexual activity is false. Sexual activity seems to have lessen compared to previous years/decades Psixtras (talk) 20:52, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Lewcm Talk to me! 20:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Unclear bacteriology

The lead says that pinta is caused by Treponema carateum, which, indeed, pinta also says. In the body, however, the first paragraph under "Cause", talking of the bacterial cause, Treponema pallidum says that carateum is a subspecies. I am thus unclear, is T. carateum a separate species within the genus Treponema or is it a subspecies of T. pallidum? One paragraph or the other needs changing/clarifying, but i can't tell which is wrong. Happy days, ~ Lindsay^Hello 12:39, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

@LindsayH, I don't know the answer to your question, but Treponema pallidum#Subspecies appears to have some more information. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:31, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for that. A tad embarrassing, as i thought i had checked sufficiently without finding the answer before writing my plea, but clearly i didn't. Anyway, chasing references seems to make the answer fairly clear, so i'll make the change required. Thanks for the pointer. Happy days, ~ Lindsay^Hello 08:50, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. Thanks for making the change. WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:23, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Confusion and mixed messaging in the "Cause" section

The "Bacteriology" subsection states "It is unable to survive more than a few days without a host". Then in the immediately following "Transmission" subsection the article mentions "the bacteria die very quickly outside of the body". Multiple days is very quick? Maybe on a geological timescale, but I think most people would not consider that to be "very quickly". Perhaps the wording can be changed to avoid such disjointed information. Nom de vileplume (talk) 12:27, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

One website I found says "minutes". This much better source says "Treponema bacteria are susceptible to heat, cold, and oxygen exposure, so they do not survive long outside the human body". This Canadian source gives some interesting details: "T. pallidum can survive in banked donor blood for 72 to 120 hours. However, treponemes only survive for a few hours in plasma, whole blood, or serum at body or room temperatures. Motile organisms were observed for 8 to 14 days in sealed slides kept at room temperature."

So I think that the survival time depends on the details. If someone accidentally left a smear on some ordinary surface like a table or a door handle, for example, it'd probably be minutes-to-hours, maybe depending on how favorable the temperature was and if there were any protective/destructive factors (e.g., most microbes have a longer lifespan on wood surfaces than on copper ones). But if you carefully sealed it up, then it could be days.

This reminds me a little of the "Smallpox blankets" stories: some small amount of the pox virus, under perfect storage conditions (just the right temperature, no sunlight...), can remain viable for months outside the body. But most of it's destroyed in hours. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:45, 24 November 2024 (UTC)