Talk:Siad Barre

Untitled

So what happened to him after '91? Went into exile IIRC. Ellsworth 15:18, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

You may wish to edit this entry in List of Dictators. Wizzy…☎ 21:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation?

How is his name pronounced?

"See-ahd Barr". JamesMcCloud129 22:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. :) Josh 22:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

• Why isn't there any mention of his genocidal policies, the human rights abuses and the plundering of assets by his party?

http://www.internal-displacement.org/idmc/website/countries.nsf/(httpEnvelopes)/72D9A910CED0E420802570B8005AAB22?OpenDocument#sources

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/somalia5.htm

QUOTES from NY Times, January 3, 1995, Tuesday "In its final years, his Government steadily lost control of much of the countryside to the chiefs of warring clans, plunging the country into racking social and economic problems. Human rights groups issued reports citing a consistent pattern of political imprisonment, torture, political killings and discrimination against the Isaaks clan." NY Times, January 3, 1995, Tuesday

"In May 1988, fierce fighting broke out in the north between the Government and rebels who contended they had been discriminated against by the Siad Barre Government and were fighting for a more democratic Government. A report commissioned by the State Department and made public in September 1989 said the Somali Army "purposely murdered" at least 5,000 unarmed civilians over a 10-month period in the early phases. The Government denied the allegation. More than 10,000 people were reported killed in the months that followed, with allegations that the Somali military had bombed towns and strafed fleeing residents. Amnesty International said in August 1988 that since 1981 the Government had used torture and "widespread arbitrary arrests, ill treatment and summary executions" of civilians suspected of collaborating with the rebels." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.207.134 (talk) 07:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

• It seems as this article is very favourable to Barre, including a lot of plus-words. It seems to me that it should be completely rewritten.

Not that all very positive articles should be rubbed out. But this one deals with a ruthless dictator whose policies preceded a complete breakdown of his country.

/Janwiklund —Preceding unsigned comment added by Janwiklund (talk • contribs) 11:06, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

death

the dictator died from natural causes and not as a result of assasination

Are these reliable quotes?

I have removed this one in particular because of the explanation in brackets, but other quotes are also referenced from the same site.

"I am principally responsible for the transformation of this poor and rural country into a modern and progressive state. It is my exclusive prerogative to destroy what I have personally built." (translated from french from a Djiboutian msg board so not 100% reliable-feel free to replace with more reliable source) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Czar Kirk (talk • contribs) 18:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

This whole article smacks of being written in a partial manner by a supporter of Siad Barre. There is no objectivity or balance here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.124.173 (talk) 19:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

References

Neutrality of the Article

I have the feeling that this whole article is slightly biased towards Barre. I noticed the very little sources used for all that information, which I couldn't verify outright, since it's from a book. Notice that in the section "Head of State" only one citation is made. I believe we should either put the neutrality of this article under dispute or then wikify the whole article so it better fits the Wikipedia policies for neutral point of wiew.

D4RK-L3G10N (talk) 18:25, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

agreed - this is an incredibly biased article - which is very bad when you are talking about a genocidal dictator in a region with a current civil war. he killed dozens of thousand Somali citizens, this article focuses on his language reforems! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.12.130 (talk) 12:40, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

"Slightly" biased? It's a giant whitewash, plain and simple. Josh (talk) 02:09, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

The unfortunate truth is that those same people who caused the havoc in Somalia want to say something negative of this gentleman who did so much for Somalia. Current ruthless warlods who rule areas from north to south, destroyed Somalia from the begining and their supporters want to write untrue statements Siad Barre. Many things in life for Somalis improved under Siad Barre and jealous individuals and groups wanted to have something to rule over, hence, the current dozen cohessionless rulers from Somaliland, Punland, Galmudug, Makhir, Mogadishu warlords, Peusoreligion religion relecks and so on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.213.35 (talk) 23:36, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

The neutrality of this article is non-existent, because it speaks of the dictator -who made Somalia permanent headline in news for the past two decades- as if he was some sort of Messiah or saviour, I have the suspicion that the author is from the same tribe of the late dictator, Somalis have a tendency to twist distort facts to favour a fellow clansman, we do that dontwe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.54.43.220 (talk) 06:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

siad barre harari background?

one of his parents are part harari because he viewed hararis as one of his tribes..any1 have a source or know of this? Baboon43 (talk) 16:07, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

lies

i had en English teacher how used say to us not to use the wiki pages because its not true and i think i found out what she meant by this to day to see a criminal dictator and a genocide leader and who was the cause of the distraction of the Somali nation written about him to be a hero . and his general of defiance was found guilty some days ago in court in the United States what a shame . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hadraawi (talk • contribs) 18:08, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

User: Baardheere So many unkind people here editing Siad Barre page. All you show is how malicious you edit pages and how you feel towards one of Africa's greatest presidents. To show that you are bias and intentionally edit Said Barre page, notice the Nicolai Chauchescu of Romania photo while there are so many great photos available. Most surviving national infrastructure in Somalia was created during Siad Barre's presidency. Further more, none of you never, ever mentioned what the people of Somalia were forced to endure after Said Barre's overthrow. Deal with it. Siad Barre and Ronald Reagan photo shows the opposite of your intended bias whoever linked the Chauchescu photo. What did we accomplish since January 26, 1991? Who else has done anything good for Somalia or for the kids grew up during the past two generations?

When it comes to reality, there is a new book entitled, "Somali President Mohamed Siad Barre: His Life and Legacy." No one, I mean no one in Somalia can do even a fraction of what Said Barre has done for Somalia. Tribal militias resulted dividing up the country and calling a person presiding over a small enclave as the "president of so and so region." For example Puntland, Somaliland, Galmudug, Jubaland etc and some of those who eventually headed these fiefdoms where those who took up arms to begin with such as Abdullahi Yusuf of Puntland or served under the so called Siad Barre regime such as Riyale of Somaliland. Under the subtitle, "The Presidency, Wikipedia is wrong to remove positive writings. The edits leave only negative words while any positive wordings are removed. You lose balance here.

Twenty years of presidency, good or bad, will not result a legacy captured in just one paragraph. Please. With all honest, all that was great in Somalia was achieved during the 1970s and 80s, industrialization, infrastructure, to advanced education and basic literacy services throughout Somalia's 91 districts all took place from 1969 to 1987.

Under Said Barre's watch, weaker tribes were given equal opportunities in education, business start ups and government jobs. Since the break out of the civil, smaller tribes lost everything, including their lives and entire properties. Who went to Dallas, USA? All the Banadiri families whose daughters were raped during the first two weeks of the civil war in the capital.

As soon as Said Barre left the capital, innumerable rapes, deaths exceeding half a million souls, untold destruction of property, where scars will remain for everyone to see in the capital in the capital Mogadishu. A civil war and denial of basic human rights are still to day happening. Militias those who opposed to Said Barre have inherited us nothing less than a hell on earth. If any killings have taken place under Said Barre's regime, it was against those who took up arms against the government. The military had all along knew what those tribal militias where about to inflict on Somalia. Someone can write a book about what it would be like if Siad Barre destroyed armed militias like Uganda, Sri Lanka, Philippines and other countries have done? Mogadishu today shows the scares of the wars between Ali Mahdi and Aidid. It feels like a ghost city abandoned 200 years ago.

Let us enjoy your biased stories and what your tribal support have given us in return of losing our central government. Remember Aidid, Al Itihad, Al Shabab, Islamic Courts Union, all would NOT have occurred had you not supported your tribe's armed militias. Tribe never builds nations.

Brutal tribal militia from the north and central regions invaded the capital city Mogadishu. Rape, killings, ransacking government offices, banks, businesses and chopping down 500 years old mango trees at Janale Farms are what we were left with by those barbaric militias from Bari and Mudug Regions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baardheere (talk • contribs) 17:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

It is unfortunate that an English teacher would shun such a good resource, but even if a teacher wouldn't let you use this as a source, it can still lead to multiple other strong sources. Instead of complaining about the content or arguing, the right course of action is to find reliable sources backing what you feel. Hadraawi, there is currently a section on human rights allegations, so corresponding sources would fit in there. Do you have any other specific concerns with sections? I know it can be difficult to follow the WP:Worldwide view policy when you have strong feelings. Dreambeaver(talk) 20:05, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Guys, Wikipedia is not the place to wage these sorts of disputes. Please see the WP:NOTADVOCATE policy. Middayexpress (talk) 17:20, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Siad Barre/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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* Why isn't there any mention of his genocidal policies, the human rights abuses and the plundering of assets by his party? http://www.internal-displacement.org/idmc/website/countries.nsf/(httpEnvelopes)/72D9A910CED0E420802570B8005AAB22?OpenDocument#sources http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/somalia5.htm QUOTES from NY Times, January 3, 1995, Tuesday "In its final years, his Government steadily lost control of much of the countryside to the chiefs of warring clans, plunging the country into racking social and economic problems. Human rights groups issued reports citing a consistent pattern of political imprisonment, torture, political killings and discrimination against the Isaaks clan." NY Times, January 3, 1995, Tuesday "In May 1988, fierce fighting broke out in the north between the Government and rebels who contended they had been discriminated against by the Siad Barre Government and were fighting for a more democratic Government. A report commissioned by the State Department and made public in September 1989 said the Somali Army "purposely murdered" at least 5,000 unarmed civilians over a 10-month period in the early phases. The Government denied the allegation. More than 10,000 people were reported killed in the months that followed, with allegations that the Somali military had bombed towns and strafed fleeing residents. Amnesty International said in August 1988 that since 1981 the Government had used torture and "widespread arbitrary arrests, ill treatment and summary executions" of civilians suspected of collaborating with the rebels." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.27.207.134 (talk) 07:30, 11 April 2009 (UTC) 82.27.207.134 (talk) 18:23, 14 April 2009 (UTC) Robin

Last edited at 18:23, 14 April 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 06:05, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Birth date

A lot of sources, including many other WPs, say he was born 6 October 1919. Why do we know different? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:59, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Title change(s)

Not sure this [1] was a good idea per WP:COMMONNAME. All cites in the lead use "Siad Barre". Opinions? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:10, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Agreed I have moved it back, if the user wishes to move it again they can begin a move discussion. McMatter ^(talk)/_(contrib) 15:22, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Mcmatter:,

The page still shows as "Siad Barré" for me, was this intentional? Many thanks Jacob300 (talk) 08:46, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Yes. Per sources, I think it should be Barre instead of Barré, though. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:11, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Gråbergs Gråa Sång:,

I have now moved the page and associated talk page to reflect the correct spelling as per cited sources. Many thanks Jacob300 (talk) 20:25, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:27, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi. I am wondering if this is the thread regarding the contested move? It looks like this page has been moved a few times recently. I am wondering if this issue is settled and that the current spelling "Siad Barre" is the correct title for this page? I just want to make sure. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 01:40, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Human Right Abuses.

There is nothing about what led to the issaq genocide, i added a bit 142.105.205.141 (talk) 18:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

He killed other clans too 👍🏽 don’t act like it was only isaaq 2607:FEA8:255D:A9D0:2099:E770:85FF:5E8B (talk) 17:58, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Birthplace and birthdate

In this entry we say that Mohamed Siad Barre was born around 1909 in Shilabo, but we have very little evidence and sources. Most references claim that he was born in 1919 in Lugh Ganane. There are several results for his birthplace as Ganane and his birth year as 1919. However there are few sources that explain these discrepancies ([2] ; [3] ; [4] ; [5]). Are they enough to resolve this doubt? Are they authoritative references? 2A02:B025:F00:878:18C9:5F10:2477:804D (talk) 17:52, 10 August 2024 (UTC)

User:JackofOz, would you like to comment, in view of your interest in 2021? The sources the IP has provided appear reliable to me but need to be worked into the article carefully as it is pretty clear that other sources differ. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:28, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the contact, Michael. Currently we say Speculations have been cast upon his exact birth year ranging from 1909 to 1921; nevertheless, it is generally agreed that he was born to pastoral parents circa 1910.

Not sure I'd go so far as "generally agreed", as if the various sources all did their own independent primary research. What's more likely is that most or all copied from existing secondary sources. I think the best we can say is "the majority/preponderance of sources favour 1909" or words to that effect. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:47, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Semi-Protection request

Can someone please change the protection to semi-protection please? Richie1509 (talk) 21:50, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Article is in terrible state with lots of POV

For example, in the "Seizure of power" section, almost no sources are cited, and it reads like straight propaganda. Like:

"Barre (June 1970) re-affirmed the sentiment of the masses when he described the very model of the post-independence regimes were based upon "the long period during which there have been over a hundred parties in Somalia and a parliament of not even two hundred members, served solely to demonstrate in the most convincing of manner that the models of colonial countries transferred to Africa serve only the new-colonial purposes of said countries, and not certainly to develop forms of democracy in keeping with African realities." (Barre, 1971)"

So the dictator is just quoted from his own work, and this is used as the source. Another example without citation that is stated as fact:

"It can thus be said that the Somali Armed Forces formed its own character until it reached a stage of having a force that had deep-rooted democratic and progressive convictions, which they could step in at any time to provide the necessary change."

"Nevertheless, when the military decided to step in, it was a response to the increasingly inept and corrupt regime, which not only aggravated the armed sector but the majority of the Somali population."

This section needs to be heavily re-written and sourced. Nordostsüdwest (talk) 23:39, 6 October 2024 (UTC)