Talk:Pole dance

From Talk:Stripper pole

For a December 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Stripperpole

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Even the expanded version seems entertainment rather than information. It's good to be entertaining, but it's not our primary job.

• About how big is this thing? Six feet? Six inches?

-depends on the height of the ceiling it is being installed in.

• Is it carried in the hands, or a fixture, or something else? Or are there several types?
• Is it round in cross section? Or something else? Or doesn't it really matter?

-yes it is round

• If it's an invention, who invented it and about when? Ancient Rome? Soho in the 1920s? Or unknown and lost in the history of stripping? Or is invention just flowery language?

• Is it common? Would you be expected to know how to use one to get a job as a stripper? Or is its use restricted to certain cultures (which)?

-No you would not be expected to know how to use one if you want to be a stripper, you would however need to know how to use it, if you wanted to be a pole dancer

• Did any of the famous strippers listed in our main article use one?

If we can't answer at least a few of these questions, then is it perhaps a neologism and should be relisted on VfD (assuming it gets through this time)? The question of size and general purpose should probably be answered in the first paragraph. It is partly answered in the striptease article, but it's still a bit obscure and I don't feel competent to transcribe the information (if information it be, rather than speculation).

I feel a little like the boy in The Emperor's New Clothes asking these questions. I hope he has something on! Andrewa 13:36, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

A world federation?

We read: The World Pole Sport Federation hosts the annual Miss Pole Dance World event which began 29 August 2003.

Sounds pretty newsworthy. But Google hits for "Miss Pole Dance World" are in the context of stripping (nothing wrong with that, but not what the article seems to be discussing), and aside from this article and its commercial scrapes there are no Google hits for "World Pole Sport Federation". I infer that this is badly garbled at best, a hoax at worst, so I'm about to delete it. -- Hoary 06:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, the 2005 competition actually wasn't the first one, but the second one. Reiko Suemune actually was not the first place, but second - the first place was disqualified on grounds that the dancer stripped - reality is shady. I think Reiko too was disqualified later while she was doing promotion, but under some strange circumstances and it seems that it was because of the shady organization of the event. The organizers of this event have treated dancers very poorly, which caused many dancers to shun this competition. I am not sure how to cover this in a neutral way.

There are legitimate competitions all over the world now, from the US to Asia, but they tend to be in the fledging stages, so it is difficult to get a sense of which is the most prestigious and there is no central body to organise these things.Cornfleur (talk) 09:12, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Alternativ versions

I know that the alternative versions described exist, although not categorized.

Why is Flying Men Dance not a version of pole dance? A pole plays there an important role.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.160.91.83 (talk • contribs)

Because obviously you don't know what you wrote about. It is not a pole dance, just as maypole dance or bunjee jumping are not pole dance. 15:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Where's the history?

It seems to me that one thing this article is missing is history and the information on the origins of pole dancing. The article talks about pole dancing as if it is something that simply exists now. It had to come from somewhere. Who came up with it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.177.113.241 (talk) 04:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

I heard it originated in Vancouver strip-clubs in the late 1970's and then slowly spread to the rest of North America. According to Vlad Lapidos's The Good Striptease Guide to London (1996), it crossed the Atlantic and hit London, England in 1996. Colin4C 14:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Added History to Links:Jim Dunn WP (talk) 12:39, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

white space

is there anyway anyone can tidy up the photos/text to get rid of oceans of blank space between sections? (No Im not suggesting reduced number of pictures, just tidying up) IdreamofJeanie 17:13, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Done Nekrorider July 30.

http://phoenixpoleparties.com

History

I very much doubt that maypole dancing had much to do with the start of pole dancing. If I were to guess I would suppose chinese pole acrobatics as lots of people ave seen them in America. I had a quick look on the web and I'm a bit leery of the mallakhamb idea too which the first entry from google returned. If someone as some half way good evidence then yes please otherwise the section should just say it is a subject of conjecture and gie the man contenders. It's recent enough for someone to actually research it. Dmcq (talk) 17:25, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Marked statement about mallakhamb as disputed. It may look similar but there are other possible sources, just because it looks similar and was earlier doesn't mean there is any link. Evidence of a link would be good. See also above #Where's the history? for more. Dmcq (talk) 13:31, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

There are various Bible verses frowning upon ancient pole dancing, and various cult caves/temples where men gathered to drink/feast/watch girls dance. The pole being a Phallic icon/image of fertility, etc... Also, Male Pole Dancers are known as Human Flags. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.55.176.9 (talk) 03:27, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

There are bible verses relevant to this topic? Errr, which ones? -- Euryalus (talk) 04:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Citations are needed. kencf0618 (talk) 16:10, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

understand distinctions

"stripper pole" denotes stripping, the removal of clothing, especially what goes on in strip clubs. the fact is that there has begun a divergence between this and pure pole dance. to call it a "stripper pole" fails to recognise this. maybe i'm biased, as i began taking a pole dance class several months ago on a lark, have made greater progress than i would ever have expected, and would make a pretty lame stripper, but it bugs me to see people using such a term that doesn't strike me as being altogether accurate or precise. the instructor for my class likes to call it verticle ballet (she has a degree in dance) - no one calls ballerinas strippers. you wouldn't refer to someone from puerto rico as "that mexican guy." it's a similar deal - just be aware of what you are really saying. -71.34.211.189 (talk) 04:54, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Above seems a legitimate concern to me: once there is no stripping and only gymnastic performance the term should be changed e.g. 'exercise pole' or whatever the people involved are content with -Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 22:56, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

As a fan of the local neo-burlesque troupe, I can assure you that the pole dancers don't disrobe. Citations would be welcome here, though. kencf0618 (talk) 16:13, 31 October 2019 (UTC)

Capitol Park Pole Dancing

If CapitolParkPoleDancing.JPG isn't indicative of the public acceptance of pole dancing as a method of exercise, I don't know what is. The mores have certainly changed since its strip club origins, which in and of itself needs to be illustrated. Furthermore, the Chinese Pole has its own article. kencf0618 (talk) 21:33, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Do you have reliable sources to cite that opinion, or is that just original research? I'm getting tired of you adding your low-quality snapshots to articles. I will be replacing the original image of Chinese pole dancers, which shows multiple dancers of both genders performing in a professional setting. Please get consensus here before re-adding your own image. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:45, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

CapitolParkPoleDancing.JPGNot isn't original research, it speaks for itself. Furthermore, the gender of the Chinese pole dancers isn't readily apparent, and the interview with the Utahan pole dancing "dinosaur" is definitely relevant inasmuch as it gives some much needed historic scope to the article. kencf0618 (talk) 23:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Your statements "public acceptance of pole dancing as a method of exercise" and "the mores have certainly changed since its strip club origins" are the original research in question, not the image. While I agree that the article could benefit from some history, your choice of source was poor (see WP:RS). This article really does not need any more images, so please let's not prolong this discussion about why your own image needs to be included. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 02:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

A characterisation of a photo's import hardly constitutes "original research," and you're not going to find a much better citation of the provenance of the pole dance than the journalistic interview of the self-described "dinosaur" from Utah. kencf0618 (talk) 01:03, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality

Is it accurate to say that pole dancing is first and foremost "an increasingly popular form of fitness and dance", and only secondarily a type of erotic performance? My impression was that the strip club use was the more common form of pole dancing. 138.16.32.85 (talk) 05:06, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

I would say it was an accurate statement. Try googling pole dance and check the first few pages for yourself. What would you use to back up your impression? Dmcq (talk) 13:32, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

That would be a disingenuous way of backing up your view. Google does not show sexually explicit images unless you specifically search for them. Thus, most results will be the tame form of pole dancing. It has historically been performed in the erotic sense for the most part. Only in the past 10 years has "non-sexual" pole dancing emerged. Most people still associate it with strippers, though. I think this article needs to cover the controversy in regards to children pole dancing. yonnie (talk) 17:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Recent additions by new editors

Hello there, to the new editors who are contributing to this page.

You have suggested some changes to the article, and they've been reverted - now please follow WP:BRD - which is Bold, Revert, and Discuss. You were bold in your edits, they were reverted - now we discuss them.

There is nothing wrong with the Pole at home image, indeed it's a valid image to show that pole dancing can be done in a home environment as well as any other - fitness, erotic and/or outside etc. Moreover, there seems to be a copyright issue with the image you're trying to replace it with. Please don't reinsert again, until you've explained your rationale here, thanks. -Chaheel Riens (talk) 13:26, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Redirect Terms

Wondering whether we should have the following defined an redirect to this page:

• Pole Fitness
• Pole Sports

AJ Mas (talk) 20:06, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal: Pole sports

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was: No concensus John B123 (talk) 21:28, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

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<Start of discussion> The page pole sports, created three months ago, appears to be partly content duplication of this page, but also contains a fair amount of new material, particularly regarding history and background. Having both pages is very likely superfluous; a merger seems indicated, in whichever direction. Admittedly I'm a little baffled that the new article was created without the least reference to this one - seems like an obvious thing to check beforehand - but whatever, the material seems good. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 10:33, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

• I support a merge. Seems like the newer stuff would merge into this established article where it's relevant and not a duplication. Not sure if a name change here would be needed, but that's another thing to discuss, I guess. -- Begoon 11:02, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oh, there should be a couple references. I created the pole sports article by making a link off the pole dance page, and there is a link to the pole dance page from the pole sports page. There is scholarly research in journals and books showing the distance people have sought to create between more erotic pole dance and pole sports. When GAISF recognized pole sports with observer status it seemed to reinforce pole sports as related but different from pole dance....hence I created pole sports as a new page and emphasized the sportification of pole. Dmfennell (talk) 20:17, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
• oppose There are significant differences between the two to justify separate articles. cf strip poker and poker; Erotic photography and photography etc John B123 (talk) 22:15, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

As there is no clear consensus and no comments for 3 months, can the discussion now be closed? --John B123 (talk) 20:41, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

<End of discussion>

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The Controversy over pole dancing classes for children missing from article

I noticed that the controversy of whether children pole dancing can ever non-sexual practice/sport is missing from the article. The article does address the "stripper pole" association issue in many peoples minds makes many people find it hard to view pole dancing as ever non-sexual but it fails to address the specific controversy over children's pole dancing classes that crops up in the UK and US from time to time. There lead links to ans a link to a UK article on a controversy from the mid 2010's over a UK children's pole dancing class that had some people up in arms but it only mentions how pole dancing is mostly an adult sport but goes on about that doesn't stop children from participating in it, without explaining the reason children pole dancing that might seem wrong to some. That fact is that in some countries pole dancing is seen as largely a erotic dance done in strip clubs and not something that can be non-sexual and that is why children "pole dancing" is seen as controversial and why it's not common in certain countries like the UK and US, where adult pole dancing is common. I think the article should at least briefly mention this specific controversy head-on such as "While classes in pole dancing as a sport or non erotic dance practice has been offered for kids, in some countries like the US and UK this has generated controversies with debates over whether pole dancing is inherently sexual/erotic and thus its appropriateness for kids. Unless their is some valid objection to this I am not aware of. --Notcharliechaplin (talk) 06:55, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

This article reads as persuasive rather than informative

I don’t have a problem with normalizing and destignatizing pole dancing, however this article should be restructured to read as more informative than persuasive. 2600:8803:5D04:7400:F411:8EB5:66CF:B8E9 (talk) 17:38, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Pole fitness origins

Sheila Kelley popularized teaching pole dancing classes as fitness. Not even mentioning her is an oversight; I have never even heard of Fawnia Mondy as the “world’s first pole dancing instructor” even though she may have started it, the rest of the industry copies Sheila’s curriculum, choreography and movement. She paved the way for women everywhere. 2603:8000:6402:7D1:25B4:9A79:5489:41E9 (talk) 17:24, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

The old version of this article was so much better.

Bring it back. That one makes poledance look like it's mainly for strippers 91.227.158.72 (talk) 08:17, 14 January 2023 (UTC)