Talk:Lowe Kong Meng

Surname

Just want to open discussion on this topic prompted by change (ping @User:Gronk Oz). As I've indicated in footnote 1, Lowe Kong Meng's Chinese name has Lowe (Liu) as the family name. However, he took Kong Meng as his surname for most of his life living in Australia. No sources I've found refer to him as Lowe, they all use Kong Meng as the surname. He appears to have passed this name onto his children as a family name (see resource from the Chinese Museum, Melbourne). Given this I feel we should retain consistency with the sources and use Kong Meng as the surname, but I'm open to other perspectives.  -- Lear's Fool 21:57, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree. Sorry, I made that change - I did read the footnote but apparently not carefully enough.--Gronk Oz (talk) 22:44, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Not at all! Thanks for taking a look at it, definitely worth clarifying on the talk page 👍  -- Lear's Fool 00:41, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lowe Kong Meng/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kusma (talk · contribs) 09:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Will take this one. —Kusma (talk) 09:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Progress and general comments

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

A nice article about an interesting businessperson. I have only some minor comments to make.

• Images look fine.
• References: You use a consistent style, but (optionally) could consider moving the page-numbered ones to {{sfn}} for convenience of the reader.
• Passes copyvio checks and does not seem to contain any original research. In some places, you seem to stray a little bit from the meaning of the source (or I may be misunderstanding it), see below.
• Minor prose comments and suggestions for content changes below.

Good work User:Lear's Fool, shouldn't be long for this to be officially declared Good :) —Kusma (talk) 10:43, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Content and prose review

• Name: I know that we usually use a footnote to tell people that the first word of a Chinese name is the surname. Here it is the opposite, at least from the time of his immigration to Australia, but it is quite irritating until one finds the footnote. I think the "He used Kong Meng as his surname" deserves to be stated in the main text; it is both unusual and important to understand.
• Chinese name: maybe it's just me, but the use of 刘 instead of traditional 劉 seems anachronistic. What is your source for the characters? Macgregor uses the traditional character.
• Early life: ADB has the father's name as "Lowe A Quee" which looks less confusing. You could tell us where Siyi is (in Guangdong).
• Tea: the source has a different emphasis and puts the "likely" elsewhere. Rephrase. Also, you could mention the business of rice from Calcutta, seems interesting enough.
• Some sources describe his business' involvement in this immigration as small I'm not convinced that this matches the source. Perhaps give some more detail and let the reader whether this means his involvement was small?
• Robe: where is that, and is it far from Melbourne?
• exporter of Gold lowercase
• diversified his business dealings .. invested in business in the broader economy a bit repetitive; maybe tell us that he invested more in banks and gold mining instead of import trade?
• Political contributions: might be worth telling the reader a little more about the History of Chinese Australians or at least link there. (It seems they was not only controversy, but also unfair and poor treatment of Chinese Australians)?
• Residence tax: consider using {{inflation}} to give a modern day comparison.
• Not a fan of starting a sentence with "And".
• Personal life: Anything interesting to be said about his children? ("No" is an ok answer). The ADB source states an honour bestowed by the Tongzhi Emperor that could be good to mention.

Comment from nominator

Thanks @Kusma this is all excellent feedback! I'll hopefully have time to get to it in the next day or two.  -- Lear's Fool 04:04, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Sure, just ping me when you're done @Lear's Fool! —Kusma (talk) 15:13, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Just providing an update. I am chipping away at your excellent suggestions. It's taking longer than expected but the article will be much improved. I will ping when it's ready for another look.  -- Lear's Fool 02:57, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

@Kusma I've finished updating the article based on the feedback. I believe all points have been addressed, but there have been some further expansions to the article that might warrant a quick further look (see diff here [1]). I'll outline anything I think might be outstanding here:

• Name: Ngai gives the name using the simplified Chinese character, but I had missed that (as you've pointed out) Macgregor uses the traditional character. I've settled on including both with their respective references. I neither read nor speak Chinese, so if this solution still feels anachronistic or inappropriate I'm happy to be guided by any preference you might have. I have included a passage about his surname in the "Personal life" section.
• Emphasis on treatment of Chinese Australians: I have expanded on this both in the lede and in the body with a clearer characterisation.
• Children: There is a new paragraph at the end of the "Personal life" section about Kong Meng's son George in 1916, which includes reflections on Kong Meng nearly 30 years after his death.
• Visit of the imperial comissioners: This is a new section that might also be worth a quick glance.

Thanks again for your thorough review!  -- Lear's Fool 01:38, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

@Lear's Fool: Excellent additions, very nice article now. What you do about the name works for me. Just "From 1954, a landing tax of £10" is clearly wrong, and I can't see what the source says. 1854? 1855? Fix that and we'll be done. —Kusma (talk) 09:40, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done fixed that typo.  -- Lear's Fool 10:05, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Excellent, off to do the paperwork. —Kusma (talk) 10:06, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 10:34, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

Lowe Kong Meng c. 1887

• ... that Lowe Kong Meng (pictured) imported goods for Chinese miners during the Victorian gold rush and became one of the wealthiest men in the colony? Source: "Kong Meng’s business grew to become the largest supplier of Chinese miners’ goods to Victoria by the mid-1860s" [2]; "The business which the firm of Kong Meng and Co., otherwise the Illustrious firm, carry on, is a large one, the chief imports being tea and opium; and there are reputedly few wealthier men in this colony than its head." [3]
  • Reviewed Baillieu Myer

Improved to Good Article status by Lear's Fool (talk). Self-nominated at 08:04, 30 January 2022 (UTC).

• Recent enough GA, long enough, uses in-line citations, blurb matter is sourced in the article as stated, all else looks good, good to go.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:04, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

To T:DYK/P3